Business Leaders That CARE (Why Authenticity Always Wins)

In this episode, the Hinge team explores whether the gap between thriving and struggling marketing leaders can really be traced back to four letters: C.A.R.E.

Leadership strategist and bestselling author Jonathan Eldridge joins us to put his CARE framework to the test in a series of high-stakes, real-world scenarios—from boardroom imposter syndrome to marketing team meltdowns and social media crises.

Along the way, we unpack:

• Why executives don’t want perfection—they want truth
• How small, everyday behaviors quietly signal (or sabotage) leadership
• What adaptability looks like when budgets get cut and teams fracture
• How to lead with enthusiasm and influence, even in uncertainty

If you’ve ever felt the pressure to be flawless, the fear of not having all the answers, or the weight of leading through chaos—this episode will challenge you to rethink what strong leadership really means.

Because in the moments that matter most, the question isn’t whether you’re perfect.

It’s whether you CARE.

Connect with Jonathan on LinkedIn, and check out his website.

Transcript

Austin McNair 0:00

What if I told you that the difference between a flourishing marketing leader and a frustrated marketing leader really came down to just four letters, CARE. we are testing a 12 step framework created by Visionary Chief Experience Officer Jonathan Eldridge. And because this is a Spiraling up podcast, we're turning it into a game. Our guest is gonna spin the wheel and land on a common or uncommon marketing and business development challenge, and then. They're gonna have to solve this real world leadership challenge, pressure people problems, messy handoffs, and tough calls live. On today's episode, Care to get started. Welcome everyone. This is spiraling up with Hinge. Welcome everyone to Spiraling Up Podcast, the podcast for professional services marketers and leaders. My name is Austin, and as always, I am joined by my colleagues and co-hosts, Mary Blanche Kramer

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 1:01

Okay, awesome.

Austin McNair 1:03

and Joe Pope. What's up, Joe?

Joe Pope-2 1:06

It's cold outside, brother.

Austin McNair 1:08

Yeah. You guys right now are braving a snowstorm and I imagine that there are, uh, little ones running around in the house. How's, uh, how's that experience going?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 1:19

well, my kids are outta school for the entire week. Uh, so we didn't get a ton of snow. It was like, like five inches or so, but it's just, it just won't melt. Uh, so lots of sledding and snowball fights over here this week.

Joe Pope-2 1:30

Yeah. And, and for some reason, uh, Fairfax County and Northern Virginia where I reside, decided that Thursday and Friday were, were all gonna be teacher work days. So yeah, they're all off all week. And that was pre-planned, I guess kids don't go to school anymore, but you know, we've got the challenge now if the little one's running around. So, producer John's got his work cut out for him today and cutting out any of these, uh. Loud noises that may occur in the background.

Austin McNair 1:52

Before we get started and turn to our guests, I want to encourage all of our listeners, you know, who are, who have been supporting the Spiraling Up podcast. We, we, we see you, we're getting some of your questions in, we know we've got some, uh. Some loyal listenership developing. Thank you guys so much for continuing to support the podcast and for all those watching on YouTube, go ahead and like, subscribe the video. Uh, your support for the show really helps us continue to, to grow what we're doing here and get new guests like the one we're gonna have today. Jonathan Eldridge, who I, can't tell you guys. I am so excited for this conversation with Jonathan, but, I know the two of you guys spoke with him already. Uh, what can the listeners be prepared for?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 2:31

and, well, we kinda, um. Kinda developed our own little, uh, book club here with this one. Uh, you know, we've all read the book. and Jonathan, his care framework, he, he has some exercises in there to actually take where we, we could actually take ourselves through his care framework. So I think, uh, and Joe and I have talked about this, uh, some, we talked about it with, uh, Jonathan on the. Yes, on, the call with Jonathan last week, but, um, yeah, just very, um, very insightful and, and some really good takeaways for me personally on not only things that, you know, I'm, I've already really mastered, you know, within that framework, but, some, some key places that I can kind of can work on going forward this year.

Joe Pope-2 3:10

What'd you guys come up with? But, uh, I know part of the exercise was looking at these 12 steps and identifying which ones we naturally have. At our disposal. Funny, funny thing that happened when the conversation with Jonathan Eldridge that, uh, Mary Blanche and I had last week, he nailed mine, the two that I had pre-identified for myself. But I, I wonder what, what did you guys come up with?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 3:30

it's funny because when I was first talking to him about doing the podcast, he was like, what do you think yours are? And he, he nailed most of mine, uh, too. Uh, so I came up with compassion, authentic, relatable, enthusiastic for my, core care. but like I said, I think one of my biggest takeaways is, is one that I, I'd like to target to work on more, and that was eagerness. so he talks about that a lot. In his book. So what about you guys?

Austin McNair 3:56

my core care equation was curiosity, adaptable, relatable, and enthusiastic. and I know from your conversation with Jonathan, the enthusiasm oozes out of this guy. So I think he and I are gonna get along today.

Joe Pope-2 4:11

absolutely and I enjoyed this exercise too. He had mentioned that everybody has like a singular care. Characteristic that really stands out. And for me, mine's relatable. I think that's, that's something I've always tried to imagine myself as. But my equation would be to be curious, to be authentic, to be relatable, and then eagerness. maybe that's the a DHD in me speaking and the fact that I feel like everything's gotta go, go, go, or I'll forget about it. Uh, but I think if you put all those four together, that's, that's me at its core.

Austin McNair 4:42

Well, why don't we transition and, uh, bring Jonathan in, uh, to our conversation here. This is gonna be a very fun segment, uh, where we put him to the test through a series of scenarios. I can't wait to see where this goes. Hold on one second. Before we get to our episode with Jonathan, I want to give one more reminder that our 2026 high growth study is available now, and yes, Joe still wants your email, but in exchange you're going to get. This 40 page research report all about how the fastest growing professional services firms do their marketing structure, their team, how they have more seller doers involved. There's so much insight packed into this report. you're gonna want to go and download that at hinge marketing.com/hgs and uh, give Joe your email.

Joe Pope 5:31

I want it.

Mary-Blanche 5:33

Today's guest is Jonathan Eldridge, leadership strategist, keynote speaker, and national bestselling author of Struggle to Strength. Jonathan brings nearly 28 years of sales and executive leadership experience, including helping build a nearly billion dollar consulting business. Now in the third chapter of his career, he is the founder of Soul Focus, where he helps individuals and organizations grow through his 12 attribute care framework. Jonathan speaks to organizations across the country where his work focuses on human improvement as the foundation for professional achievement, helping leaders elevate presence in today's fast changing world.

Mary-Blanche-2 6:10

Jonathan. Welcome to spiraling up.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 6:12

Thanks for having me.

Mary-Blanche-2 6:14

We are so excited to have you. As you know, I have been wanting to have you as a guest on our podcast really since we started this, this podcast last year. So, uh, and then I know we connected, uh, early in, in the fall when you were getting ready to launch your, your new book. So it's just the perfect time to have you and, um, for listeners, for those that don't know, Jonathan was actually my neighbor directly across the street when I lived in Michigan, for five years. So, he's a dear friend of mine and also someone who has been, uh, an advisor to me in my own career over the years and, we're really excited to have you.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 6:47

Man, it's, it's a, it's a blessing to be here, and I'm excited to get things kicked off.

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 6:51

Jonathan, your reputation, uh, it, it definitely has come across in how Mary Blanc has talked about, uh, honestly, the experiences that she's had being around you. I know your background is in a chief experience officer role. One of the things that really struck me when we first got the opportunity to connect a few weeks back was that you described your background is having 25 years of failures. What does 25 years of failure mean to Jonathan?

Jonathan Eldridge-2 7:16

Uh, it means you can write a book. Um, you know, we actually talked about this yesterday, 20, 22 years, 23 years ago, I opened up our Detroit market for the eight 11 group, and that was from the ground up. And I started that up and it was extremely hard to do right, to hire the right people, go after any client that would give you business in the staffing industry. And as I built it up and, and built the market, I was then asked to move to Philadelphia with two weeks notice. And literally the owner came up and he's like, Jonathan, you did great in Detroit, but we need you to move to Philadelphia. And I'm like, you're nuts, man. You're, I'm, I, I'm, no way. And I now thinking back on, it was the most important decision I ever made in my life because it was all about fear and chasing your fear and going after another round of failure. And here's what happened is when I left Detroit, no one was prepared for it. And the market crashed, like it fell apart. The owner, Ryan had to come up and kind of fill my void because I didn't prep leaders. That's a major failure, although in hindsight, we weren't really prepared for it either. If I had had a year, I'd have had a leader. But when I moved to Philly and I opened it up, my game plan was very different. Everybody led from the minute I hired my first college person outta school, Jordan s str, and, and then on and so forth with all the people I hired, it was all about everybody leading. Everybody making the decision. If I failed, we all failed. If they failed, I failed. And when I did that, it enabled me when it was time to leave to literally hand them the keys and get the hell out of the way because they had eight leaders that could run the market versus when I left Detroit, there was no one culture fell apart. And so yeah, lessons learned, major failure on my part, but I learned how to make sure that I start grooming leaders the minute that they start.

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 9:13

It's, it's great insight, honestly, to how I think you referenced this kind of being the third phase of your career. Uh, this is kind of, we've gone through these different stages. We've started in Detroit, we went to Philadelphia, you're back in Michigan now, and now we are creating our own entity, our own professional services organization. Another anecdote that you shared with us when we talked previously is, you know, 99% of these types of initiatives will fail. And you've gone and tried to do this three times. Uh, what's driving the insanity, man? What's, what's really driving you to try to bring this, this, this vision to leaders across professional services and business to business organization?

Jonathan Eldridge-2 9:51

That's a great question and it's manifestation and people think that it's not real. But in the sixth grade, I told my teacher that I would run a company someday and I wanted to run it to help influence people and help others. And that's how I felt in the sixth grade. And that's exactly what I ended up doing. And when I had the opportunity to step out of this role, I'm still attached and I consult for the eight 11 group on the side. I was given a, a new platform and it is like starting over and I'm doing everything on my own, but it's my creative thought and it's those 25 years of lessons learned that's now put me into the build, the ability to work with leaders and really break down the leader. Sometimes it's not the issue, it's actually the leader. How were they taught? Where, where are they? How are they getting ready every single day? So I developed a framework throughout those years of, man, why? Why is so, we grew, just found this out. But the eight 11 group in the professional services staffing industry last year grew 12%. Industry standards was minus 2%.

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 10:53

Yeah.

Mary-Blanche-2 10:54

Oh wow.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 10:54

Okay? So we are an outlier. And how does that happen? Is because we created great culture and frankly we just care more than everybody else. So my framework was like, man, what did we do different? We care and we prove it.'cause I wouldn't work here if we didn't. So then I was like, all right, what attributes do I need to put onto this care system? So I started asking managers, doing my own research, why are you using me? Like, why did you even pick up the phone? Well, you know what? You were consistent. Wow, okay. Well that, that seemed to ring a bell quite a bit. That was my first C. So consistency had to be on my base. And I did that with all of these attributes. Because I realized that all of'em went into whether or not they were gonna purchase from you. It had nothing to do with your brochure. And every one of'em said that. So each one of these attributes that I have, three C's, three A's, three Rs, three E's, everybody's got their own framework. But ultimately, when you're talking about business scenarios, if you're trying to grow something, you've gotta have a manifestation to do it. Like I believe that I will fill arenas, and if I don't have that belief, I shouldn't be doing it. And I'm not trying to fill belief or arenas for notoriety. I'm trying to do it because I believe I've made changes in my life. Mary Blanche has witnessed them where I've become a better human. And if you become a better human, it doesn't matter what you're selling, you will succeed. I promise you that. I'm proof of it.

Mary-Blanche-2 12:22

that was the back half of what you said to, to Joe and I when we were talking to you last week is I have 25 years of failure and that is why I succeed. And I just, I thought that was so powerful because it's really about just reframing your failures in your mind and using them as your fuel to drive you forward.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 12:38

100% Mary Blanche. And it starts with how you take care of yourself, right? If you are getting up every day and you're like, man, I'm blessed, enthusiastic, live the day it's on my card. I get up every day and I'm thankful that I'm alive. As you guys all know, I've, I've recently had another death in my family and, um, it's like the back to the future picture where they all start fading out while my mom, my dad, and my brother have already faded out. And so I have to be enthusiastic. Like I take the polar opposite. I'm not gonna cry about it forever. I need to get up off this pillow. I need to put my shoes on. I need to get to work because I have one opportunity on this planet. We all do. And the more that I can get in front of organizations and leaders and help them realize it's not about your ego or your paycheck, it's about your influence in life. That's what's most important. That's what moves the needle, and that's why clients buy from you,

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 13:31

Well, Jonathan, I, I think that is kind of the, uh, the perfect introduction to why we, uh, designed this particular segment for you. Uh,

Jonathan Eldridge-2 13:40

the games.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 13:40

let me.

Mary-Blanche-2 13:41

game. show.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 13:43

it's game time. So Jonathan, we are putting you in the CXO hot seat to see how your care framework, can survive. Some of you know the real world's messiest marketing and leadership disasters. as you were just saying and describing, you know, your approach as a, as a human, your approach as a, as, as a leader is to, to come in with a lot of enthusiasm as a response to tragedy and things going wrong and mistakes. and. In your framework. What I'm seeing is that, leaders have strengths and we, and weaknesses across many different kind of scenarios, and kind of who they are. And so we've got eight different scenarios, Jonathan, that we want to have you respond to today to see how you would advise, a particular leader to, respond to the scenario. How does that, sound?

Jonathan Eldridge-2 14:35

I can't wait. I'm gonna put on my bulletproof vest and get after answering these questions, man, let's go.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 14:41

Excellent. Excellent. Well, without further ado, then let's, uh, spin the wheel and then Mary Blanche, I think you're, you'll be the, the one to kind of read through our first scenario. Let's go ahead and give a spin

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 14:52

The sound effects get me

Jonathan Eldridge-2 14:53

I like it.

Mary-Blanche-2 14:56

Okay. The burnout wall.

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 15:01

Ooh.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 15:01

burnout wall.

Mary-Blanche-2 15:03

right, Jonathan, so it's Q4. And Greg and his team have been running at a hundred miles an hour for six months, and one by one, the team members start quiet, quitting. And the spark that usually drives their creative work has pretty much completely, uh, evaporated. But there's still one more big client initiative before the end of the year. So Greg needs his team to cross the finish line, but he can see that the team's really running on empty. So how does he reignite that fire and get people to move with speed again, but also without it feeling like, he's just cracking the whip or ignoring their exhaustion?

Jonathan Eldridge-2 15:44

All right. That's, that's awesome. You just mentioned enthusiasm and that enthusiasm. Why It's on my, why it's on my care framework is because it's about perspective. Did they have this feeling in Q1 when they weren't burnt at a hundred miles an hour and they were going and everything was great and everybody was drinking the Kool-Aid. Now it's Q4 and your tank is empty. So where are you finding enthusiasm? As a leader, you should be painting a vision every single day as to where we're trying to get to. And you should be painting the vision of how hard it's gonna be right now. And the people that are toe dipping. It's in ch chapter three of being curiosity, being curious. Toe dippers don't work. Toe dippers are for everybody else in the industry. Go toe dip somewhere else. You need to jump in the pool and finish the goal system with me'cause I'm with you too. Like, so if you're barely getting across the finish line, how do you think I feel? So the honesty and transparency that you can build with being enthusiastic and painting a new vision, look at, if we can get across this finish line X will happen with the client. I promise you that. I'll give you more time. I know you're burnt. I know you're spent. But you weren't burnt in Q1. So where can I find that mindset in all of you to help us all get across? And I think that's where enthusiasm comes in. You gotta fill back up a juice. And how do you do that? Paint a clarifying picture, a clear vision, and understand that you're going through it with them too. You're burnout, but the client can't see that. So bring enthusiasm to the table.

Mary-Blanche-2 17:08

Man, I'm already like, put me in coach

Jonathan Eldridge-2 17:10

Yeah, there you go.

Mary-Blanche-2 17:11

after that

Jonathan Eldridge-2 17:11

that's, I don't know how else to do it. That's how I would do it. And I've been in that situation where they are spent again, you get into the quiet quitters, you do feel that and you can hear it and you nip it right away. If you nip it right away and you get curious about why they're feeling that way, it becomes very easy to go, oh man, I feel that way too. Well, let's get across this finish line and go to the happy hour and we'll celebrate, you know, that's kind of how I would look at it.

Mary-Blanche-2 17:36

Yeah. Yeah. I love, in your book you talk about, um, when you're talking about curiosity, you said it's nearly impossible to set the course of your life without curiosity is key. Um, so I thought that was really powerful too. And that's one of the biggest takeaways I took from your book is, is how we can be more curious in general as

Jonathan Eldridge-2 17:55

Yeah. I mean, it, it, it builds trust. So I would say to them, man, why are you feeling burnt out? Gimme some more reasons why. Get curious. Peel back the onion, and as soon as you peel back far enough to where it reaches you too, now you're both invested.

Mary-Blanche-2 18:08

Yep.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 18:10

So,

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 18:11

I, I really resonated with that section in your book as well, Jonathan. I mean, it, it immediately brought my mind to, of course, pop culture. And, uh, there's a very famous episode in the Ted Lasso show where he's playing darts and he's talking about a lesson that his father taught him about being curious. And it was kind of like in that, in that show, which of, of course I think most people have seen or have heard of at this point, uh, it's kind of his coming out party. He, he played the first few episodes of that show where he was the buffoon coach who was never gonna accomplish anything. But in ha in that moment, he reached this peak where he like Outsmarts, the former owner of the club in playing a dark game, where they made this huge bet and things along those lines. And it was all centered around the idea that. The owner wasn't curious at the fact that Ted maybe actually knew how to play darts. He maybe had learned how to play darts for years and years and years with his father at the bar every weekend. And if you lack curiosity, the opportunity for you to Ms. Key elements in how to narrate, uh, a story or a future for your team, those types of things can fade and you're not going to be able to then necessarily take advantage of it. So, uh, I, I, that really resonated me. And, and you know, of course my mind goes to TV and sports,

Jonathan Eldridge-2 19:26

Well, that's a great point, but think about this. If you're not curious, how do you become relatable?

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 19:32

hmm.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 19:33

Like how do you relate unless you peel back the onion? And so I would always tell people, if you come up to me and, Hey, how was your holidays, man, that is so surface level. I've had a few people come up to me and go, Hey, how are you doing since your mom Joanne died? And I was like, whoa, you remembered her name.

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 19:49

Yeah.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 19:50

That's the it factor. I talk about the everybody's got the IT factor. This is not an athletic term, this is a term when humans actually use their head and heart in a moment. And it was like, wow, that resonated with me. He happens to be one of our finest AEs salespeople in the company. There's a reason why he remembered her name. But it's little things like that. Being curious creates relatability.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 20:13

And he cares. I mean, I, that's like your whole, the whole thing, like right. It's like how do we get people to care about not just the work, but the, the dynamic in between the work, which is the relationships. Um. Jonathan, I I have a question for you, just like on this, and I might follow up with similar question on others. You highlighted curiosity, you highlighted enthusiasm when it comes to these like virtues. You know, one of the things I've, I've, read along the way in kind of my, you know, old psychology philosophy days that I, from school, is that sometimes these virtues, the way that they grow and manifest in us is in our routines, right? They are, kind of liturgies or rhythms that kind of form us in a certain way so that when we're on autopilot, when we're just like at work and like just doing our thing. Curiosity manifests itself or enthusiasm manifests itself. I'm curious for something like enthusiasm, which maybe a lot of people just by default, their personality, they don't come across as super enthusiastic. What are some like routines or, practices in daily life that people can do so that when they're, you know, in autopilot work mode, you know, those kind of virtues are, are coming through?

Jonathan Eldridge-2 21:27

I think it's all about understanding that you're not gonna be perfect. there is no perfect day. There's a live the day. For a long time, I put this in my book, I was a win the day approach in professional services. You should always win the day. That's what you should do. That's not the case. It's not realistic. It's to live the day. So I would tell people in moments of stress, in moments of strife, that you're here, you're alive, you're not performing surgery, you're not sending anybody to the moon. This is staffing. This is professional services. So don't jump off the cliff just because something happened. Look at where you're at. Look at all the positives you have in your life. Stare in the mirror. Look in the mirror at yourself and realize, my God, I get to build a relationship today. I get to struggle through something today. And by the way, for people that aren't enthusiastic, that's not true. They're enthusiastic, but you gotta find what they're enthusiastic about. Like for me, it's life. It's on my shoulders. I wear it on my sleeve. again, it goes back to how do you build enthusiasm throughout the day? And that is a fact. Wherever I have gone for 30 years in this industry, they have always said they hire because of the person across the room, not the brochure in front of them. And I'm not trying to slight anything from a marketing perspective, but in today's day and age, when you're fighting against ai, you have gotta be the most polished person you can possibly be. And I wrote this down as one of the clarifying messages I wanted to make it throughout all this podcast is that every day is an interview. You're interviewing Mary Blanche is interviewing Austin. We're all interviewing right now for the job that we are currently doing. And if you don't deliver the best questions to me, and if I don't give you the best responses, then we fail. And I won't allow that to happen.'cause I've been waiting for this for like a month and a half. Like I was dialed in, ready to go. I had music blaring, I was, I, I'm re I'm fired up. And that's what managers want to know you have in you before you walk into an interaction.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 23:31

let's, uh, let's dive into our next scenario and I think I'll, I'll take us through this one, but let's see what we land on. Okay.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 23:40

Lower roll.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 23:42

Boardroom peril. All right. So yeah, or another, another name we had for this scenario, Jonathan, was the, the Imposter Boardroom meeting. So here, here's the setup. You've got Jonah who has to present a high stakes strategy to the board of directors at his company. But deep down, he's terrified because the market and kind of his role and kind of universe of what he's responsible for is shifting very, very quickly, and he just does not have all the answers. So Jonah feels this immense pressure to be the perfect executive who has, has it all figured out, what would happen to Jonah's influence if he stopped trying to be bulletproof and instead showed up as his real raw self. what advice you got for Jonah.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 24:32

First of all, I would tell whoever the scenario what Jonah, that you don't need to be perfect. Like he's putting way too much on his shoulders. He's gripping way too tight. Executives don't even wanna see that. But I will also say that executives want honesty. And if this guy is sitting there and he doesn't have it in his gut, then say that, you know what? Bored, I'm here to impress you. But I have to be honest, the only way I can impress you is to be honest, to be real. I don't know all the data, the market is shifting. We have to manage through chaos. You have to manage through chaos. So the information I'm gonna give you is based on that chaos. And I think that's showing, damn, that guy was real. He was very upfront. I might know a little bit more leaving this, but I do know one thing. He's right about the market. Just be authentic and be honest with how you feel. And they'll be like, damn. I mean, it's kind of unrealistic for you to give us a valued explanation as to how the market's doing when there's ripples of tsunamis coming from all directions. it's not realistic. And frankly, again, anybody that has that amount of pressure on them to be perfect, they need to come talk to me because perfect isn't in the cards. I actually say this and it's in my book and, and again, people talk about being great and greatness is, you know, you find that it factor for micro fractions, but greatness in a person is not pursuing it. Greatness in a person is waking up every day and realizing you're gonna fail a few times throughout it. You're gonna fall, but you're gonna get up and you're gonna learn. So that's a day that you've lived. And isn't that a day you should be enthusiastic about and perhaps show some eagerness, a sense of urgency? So I think like this board has to understand where this guy's coming from, trying to influence them, looking the best he possibly can, but being truthful with not having all the information

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 26:17

Eagerness really resonates with me on this one, Jonathan, because in that type of circumstance, you're right, nobody has all the answers. But if we're eager to learn, we're eager to consume the information that's available and use our subject matter expertise to present solutions, options, hypotheses, things along those lines, we're gonna be in a much better position to be successful. And just hearing how you've described this, my confidence is raising right. Being able to talk about it in that manner makes me feel more comfortable in what the solution is. And in marketing, it's a test. It's always a test. And if I don't believe that at some point we're gonna get the answer from my leader, then my confidence is gonna decrease. And that that eagerness is really that key piece right there.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 27:01

What would the board rather hear that you sat for hours and researched for hours on what the best possible information you could give you were showing a sense of urgency. You were being very damn eager. What I found was this is what I can give you. This is the most that I can. And so I would want that as a board member versus someone trying to, tell me something. That's great. That's not to gimme an answer that I want to hear. I'd rather hear real.

Mary-Blanche-2 27:31

Well, that, that's what speaks to me the most in your answer here, Jonathan, is the authenticity piece. one of the things I love in the the authenticity chapter, uh, and maybe you can, you can tell this story a little bit, but where you talked about the scripts and having, everyone leave a voicemail, talk a little bit about that.'cause I, I think it's a great story.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 27:50

I just, I was talking to people today about that. They're like, the progressive, commercials really screwed you on that one because I would go into markets and I would tell every market, I want you to leave a message on your voicemail. Come in the next day and we're gonna play'em on speaker. And it was a fun exercise because no one was gonna be perfect. And I went into Columbus and I sat across from this newbie, and he was putting out great. I mean voicemails all day. And I got up and I walked around the workstation and I realized he was reading a script. So on his next voicemail, I literally grabbed his script while he was leaving the message and ripped it up and he fuddled through it and left it and all that. And I said, listen, life is not a script. It's not gonna be handed to you with this piece of paper to say, read this to everybody. And second of all, it's not authentic and genuine. Go home and leave a message. Now, the next day everybody came in, very senior salespeople played their messages first, and they were all right. But the best message left that day was from the newbie, the guy that didn't use the script. And when I stopped everybody and there were senior people making great money in this office, and I said, guys, the best person was Alex who just started. And he got like a tear in his eye. And I explained to him why, that he finally put down the piece of paper and he sold him. He didn't sell the process. again, that's what managers want in the professional services industry. They should want that in any industry.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 29:16

And marketers above. I think many, positions across professional services, we especially have to be adaptable. I mean, we, we talk about it a lot on this podcast that just in the last 12 months, the tenor of the conversation and like the central, tools and things that we're, we're talking about have completely shifted, in the digital marketing landscape. It's, it's like the, one of the most, I think, important skills that marketers have to wrap their heads around. let's go ahead and spin the wheel again. Okay.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 29:49

At the Bri.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 29:50

Joe, next one. Next one's on you.

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 29:54

The Franken brand. Yeah, I think the longer form, uh, version of this was actually the Franken brand merger, Jonathan. But as you can see, our. Our, uh, what's this thing called? Spin the wheel io or whatever it is. We only get a certain amount of character space. We had to shorten these up for you. Maybe the spiraling up budget will account for a larger characters, uh, in the future, but right now we're limited. So the setup for this is Ryan is a CMO of a firm that just acquired a smaller boutique shop. The new team is defensive, and Ryan's legacy team is arrogant. The question here is, how should Ryan unify the two cultures before clients start to feel this difference and jump ship?

Jonathan Eldridge-2 30:36

And there you go. There's adaptable. Somebody throws something at you, the owner buys another company, a boutique shop, and you've got. Senior people with junior people and you're like, God, how do I mesh both of those? That can happen in any professional services environment that you have. And it's basically creating a unified shared vision. And it's also making sure that your new company does what they do well, don't get in their lane, and your old company does what they do very well. And you don't have to necessarily cross paths to create a great vision. look at it this way, like when you look at athletics, there's a defensive side of the ball and the offensive side of the ball. And yeah, you have to know what the other's doing, but you're not responsible for those actions on the other side of the ball. The new company isn't responsible for what the old company has to do and should respect it and vice versa. Oh, and by the way, we're working for towards a universal goal. So when it comes to that type of turmoil, a lot of it can be quest right away by the leader involved. As soon as you create a unified vision and let them realize, Hey dude, you can continue to do what you're doing. Well, I'm not screwing with your stuff all the legacy people. You're good too. But we're gonna build a unified message where a unified brand so we understand each other. And then figuring out how do I approach the new people. I don't know if that is, is a correct answer, but that's the answer that I would give because anything else does create quiet, quitting turmoil, chaos, you name it. And ultimately the client doesn't win.

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 32:05

This is such a huge topic in professional services, mergers and acquisition, especially those driven by PE, has just been a continuous story for the last few years and doesn't look like it's gonna be slowing down anytime soon. we run across this all the time, frankly, like in most of our engagements, somebody will come in and say, Hey, Joe, we're either experiencing this or we might experience this. Or, our top competitors experience this. They are coming together as, as everything's in flow and we don't know what to do. Like, how are we gonna adapt our marketing strategy? How are we gonna adapt to this new situation? So adaptability does ring true here and, and I'll make a shameless hinge plug. One thing that we've seen for 15 plus years of doing research is the best way to be adaptable is to have the data. And research is really what gives you that. So in circumstances when groups are coming together. Asking those curious questions of the team members, how do you view this moving forward? What are the things that are challenging you? what things are exciting you being able to build that into that unified vision? It's, it's how we build unified brands when we're dealing with rebrands of two different organizations coming together.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 33:14

And I'll hit on another attribute that's so important and that's compassion in these situations, like, dude, no one is thinking about compassion. They're empathetic. Oh, I've been there. I, I know how you feel. But when there's a merger and you feel like your job's in jeopardy, you'd be like, you get completely flustered. And if I had a leader sit down and truly show some compassion, like, Hey, I've been here, I've been where you're at. that helps settle the nerves. leaders don't realize how influential they are when they need'em the most, that's when they need to be influential. Mergers, acquisitions, like thinking you're gonna lose your job to ai. If you sharpen your saw every day, if you're truly working on yourself, AI will not replace you. I will stand on a mountain and say that I don't think AI replaces anyone always working on themselves to be the best version. it can't take away what you do in that meeting. The minute the lights come on, I call it the mirror on off effect, the light on off effect. In my book, when the light's on, buddy, you better be ready to go, right? Turn the hat backwards, like"Over The Top." Sylvester Stallone back in the eighties, old movie, you guys might not ever seen it'cause you're too young, but he has this thing and he is a, he is an arm wrestler and he puts his hat backwards. And when he does that, he goes into like this mode. And guess what, when I was with clients, I was happy go jovial. But once they finally had business hat on backwards, let's go And that's how you win business. Not only win business, but partnerships that stay with you. If you even left, they go with you.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 34:49

All right, let's roll with it one more time here. Let's, uh, let's spin the wheel. How's that for a segue?

Jonathan Eldridge-2 34:54

That was pretty good.

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 34:55

Pretty good. Austin, you must do this for a living.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 34:57

I know. He's damn good.

Mary-Blanche-2 35:00

Okay.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 35:01

What do we.

Mary-Blanche-2 35:02

All right. This is the invisible SME. Okay. So Jonathan Mark is tasked with installing a sales program for the firm's top experts. So the top consultant is, he's brilliant, right? But he's completely unapproachable and he refuses to participate in marketing and he's pretty much just straight up blunt with clients. How should mark flip this SME from a liability into a brand champion without losing his technical genius?

Jonathan Eldridge-2 35:35

So really, really hard to take someone that could be in a disc profile, a d. And try to make'em into an I or a C, right? it's not gonna work. What you need to do is value what they actually do. So for instance, within the eight 11 group, we've got a huge hq and the people in finance are not outselling our services. They're very introverted, they're very into what they're doing. They're very at their computer, but they're dialed in and they're damn good. as a leader, I don't want to change that. I wanna magnify it. The dude's doing it right. He is an expert. Leave him behind the scenes and when he does have to interact with the client, role, play with him, give him some easy techniques to actually put a smile on his face. Like, I actually talk about this in my book. How long can you carry a smile? This is an approachability issue. Like, he's not, not talkative, no one knows how to approach him because maybe they haven't gotten curious enough to understand what drives. You might find out that he loves talking about table tennis or cricket ball, who knows? But you won't know that unless you ask those questions. So he might be introverted to you until you find something that he's common with and, oh, what do you know? Maybe the client has the same thing that they, they like pickleball together and next thing you know, you're introverted stud Smee is playing pickleball with your client. So it's all about perspective and, and really going back to John Maxwell, seeking first to understand before you understood this guy is a Smee. I will probably give him a raise. I don't need him to be in front of clients.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 37:07

there, there's two things that you said in there. Number one is about. Getting to know the expert. And one of the things that, we advise our clients all the time about when we do our visible expert program is, that every marketer, everybody kind of organizing some sort of program to get their subject matter experts out there and a little bit more visible. It starts with understanding who they are. It starts with, not just like a surveyor quiz, although you can use those kinds of tools, but like actually sitting down and getting to know the person one-on-one, uh, like you were mentioning. So I really loved that. But the other part of what you said that I really like is, is like some of these people, you know, as much as it might be like a scene or viewed as like, man, it would be such a strategic boon if we could get Paul out there and, and get him speaking and stuff like that. But if Paul is like super resistant and just doesn't want to do it. Don't waste your time. Go find the people that are not gonna waste your time and that are enthusiastic and they want to do it. Paul might be a better expert and he might be more technically competent, and he might have his lane like, you know, I, I really like what you said there. It's like, but like for, for people that are trying to get the, you, you know, get more visibility out there for their experts, start building your army with people that you know are ready to, to jump in and get out there. don't fight the immovable object. It's not moving, you know?

Jonathan Eldridge-2 38:26

You create a Zendesk Avenue where he can reply to a ticket, therefore not having to use a lot of his personality, but can still use his wit to be able to provide that answer for the client. So there's usage, but you gotta relate with him first.

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 38:40

Me, me, people where they are. Right. that's, that's the key with relatability. And, and that to me, of everything in your care framework really resonates the most. It's how do you make these deep connections with people, meet them where they are, and allow them to then show you in a sense how you, either you can sell to them or how you, they can help make your marketing system more successful. Or you can make your team a better unit. And if you think about it from that perspective, your ability to pathway forward is, is far more likely. one of the big things that we talk about in our physical expert program that really resonates here too is. You don't always have to be a speaker. You don't always have to be a writer. You don't have to be a podcaster. There are numerous ways in the marketing environment and especially the professional services environment, which we're selling expertise where people can contribute. So if you are relating to them and putting that effort forward authentically, even the likelihood that they're gonna be able to plug in and provide that type of extra support in a way that actually works for them that they could be excited about is far more likely. It's, how it works. Without it, it wouldn't

Jonathan Eldridge-2 39:44

Yeah. You know how many times I've walked into somebody like that with my energized personality, and I can tell that they wanna punch me in the face because they're like so not, and they're like, dude, I don't need this from you. This is not. And I, and I

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 39:55

let me be sad.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 39:57

it like, whoa, like I don't need to impress this person. This guy is well above, he's very equipped to do what he is doing, get out of his way and shut up. And I kind of take that approach, like when they're really good at something, just let'em ride that road.

Mary-Blanche-2 40:10

Jonathan, I wanna circle back to, approachability, and, and you talk about that a lot in your book. what advice would you give to someone who, who kind of recognizes that they might not be the most approachable person,

Jonathan Eldridge-2 40:21

So there's two things I would advise people to do. I still do this today. I did this before our podcast. it's called the Mirror Test. And so you go into the bathroom with the light off and you give your script and you give your spiel, you answer a question with the light off. It's so easy to do, but once you turn the light on, that's what people are seeing. That's the view and the lens of the world looking at you. So I would look like, how do I look answering that question? Am I using inflection? Am I answering it with a smile? Am I using my hands? It doesn't lie. So when the light goes on, buddy, you better be ready to look in the mirror and give that pitch. And it's so much easier when the light's off, right? No one's looking, but when the light's on, can you perform in that way? And it takes practice. in that same vein, I would say, are you carrying a smile? What does your resting face look like? Ah, there's Joe. He's giving it to me. Austin's got, you gotta have a face that presents approachability. If you have an unapproachable demeanor, you're not gonna, you're typically not gonna be approached. So if that's your issue, I would say number one, and I, and I usually, and I say this in the book, if you're trying to become approachable, figure out how you become adaptable first, how many adaptable things can you write down if you can adapt, if you can adapt your mindset in real time, you can become more approachable in any situation.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 41:50

Jonathan, I'm curious what you'll think about this, but I, I think one of the hardest things in the modern working environment is working remotely and that zoom fatigue being on camera all the time. I talk with our team about this a lot, how the importance of being on camera and being present, even if you've been on a bunch of meetings, I, I just think it's such, such an important tool for leaders to do exactly what you're saying, to kind of wear that smile, to, to see that energy. I can't tell you how many calls I get on every day where, you know, it's just easier to turn off the camera because, you know, people have been on meetings all day. It's the end of the day, or maybe it's still early morning, everybody hasn't, you know, fully gotten outta their pajamas or whatever. But I, you know, I think that, for leaders, especially ones who are trying to grow and, and, and show more care and be more influential, like being on camera, being prepared, For me, the mirror test there's nothing like more. More acute than being on camera in front of people like, but, or starting a podcast where you get to watch the recordings and go, damn, I got a resting bitch face while Joe's over there making his point. I need to, I need to like brighten up

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 42:56

I mean, it's because it's because you didn't agree with the point, but yeah. I gotcha.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 42:59

usually, usually, right. I don't

Jonathan Eldridge-2 43:01

it.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 43:03

if you have any

Jonathan Eldridge-2 43:03

of hope, the whole point.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 43:04

environment.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 43:05

That's the it factor. this just happened about a month ago, I was mentoring somebody and in the men in the middle of this call. He yawned. And I was like, hold on. I actually put that in my book like I've been on, man, yawns happen, but you can fight off a yawn. This dude flat out yawned, like he was going to bed and we were on a mentor call. I was mentoring him and so I stopped him and I was like, yo, and I didn't wanna make him feel bad, but I was like, listen, if you ask me a question right now and I yawn before I answer, how much are you listening to my response? And he is like, well, I probably wonder why you were yawning. I'm like, exactly, you can't yawn bud. It happens. Or another element that maybe you guys have understood If you have a psychology degree, but never sit in a lobby unless you're going to a dentist office or a medical. Appointment. You never, ever sit in the lobby. Sitting implies laziness. It implies that you're not ready. And when you've been waiting for six months to meet a manager and he finally comes out to meet you and you're sitting in the lobby, I wouldn't even take the meeting

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 44:18

Jonathan, I, I received a piece of advice my first few months of working as an intern for a government contractor, which, I mean, go ahead and talk about how boring that is. Um, no offense to government contractors, although we make fun of'em quite a bit on the show. Um, yeah, no, I, I received a piece of advice. I, I was tired in a meeting with a bunch of people and I yawned, so like this whole story is really resonating with me. And the, one of the senior level executives in this meeting turned to me and he said, don't ever do that again. And I'm like, oh shit. Like I am, uh, I've screwed up. And he is like, but I understand this is your first couple months working in a professional career. If you're tired, stand up. Literally stand up. Because in a meeting, in a sense, standing a lot of times implies power or focus or things along those lines. It can really shift the tenor of a meeting. And so here's this, 23-year-old kid standing in a meeting full of a bunch of people wearing suit. and the next time it happened to me, maybe because I might have been up a little late the night before, you know, young twenties, it happens. next thing I know, I'm getting asked for my opinion and I'm in a meeting I know nothing about. I'm literally just standing there. And I think that that type of advice can really resonate. How you appear in a setting like that can really resonate with the people you're around.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 45:32

Yeah, I mean, you're a leader. For a reason. You have to wear it all the time. You have to wear it in times when you have to deliver a message that is not gonna be easily, heard or accepted. And you have to stand resolute and you have to believe what you're saying is real and it's gonna help people. So my next piece of advice to the person I was mentoring is, buddy, you need to start thinking like every day is an interview because someone's always watching and they're critiquing the littlest of things. The person that remembered to call my mom Joanne, I mean, I will go down and hug him after I see him with see him later on, right? It's those little things. That add up. And so if every day is an interview and you act like that, you're always on

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 46:17

I feel like I need to give a shout out to my, uh, 12th grade English teacher, Ms. Walter, who, early in my, class with her, I yawned and she said, Austin, you might as well come up here and slap me in the face if you ever yawn like that again.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 46:30

It, it's just the worst. And people think, ah, that

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 46:34

And she, told me, she's like, if you're tired, stand up in the back of the room. Don't do that again. So shout out to Ms. Walter.

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 46:41

people listening to the Spiraling Up Podcast are learning that the solution to all your problems in life standing.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 46:46

if I wasn't in this hotel room, I would be standing in my basement doing this.'cause I like to stand. I hate sitting.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 46:53

All right, Jonathan. Our next, uh, scenario here is the marketing team meltdown. So, Mindy's marketing team, just had a disastrous campaign launch. Finger pointing has started and two of her top directors are no longer speaking to each other. So the question is, Mindy is dealing with a fractured culture right now. Leadership thinks Mindy should issue a formal warning to realign roles, but Mindy believes there might be another way to approach the issue. What do you think?

Jonathan Eldridge-2 47:24

I mean, if you're not adaptable to the situation that's changing, what's wrong with you? So adaptability, a very tough attribute to control in the professional industry. It's very easy in the personal life, and I'll give you an example in a second. It's not. But I would say anytime that that happens, like the divisiveness of having your budget cut 30% is nothing more than a, the market having conditions that are very, very tumultuous. You can't understand the market right now. So we have to slice, has nothing to do with who you are as a person. It's not a personal slight or a vendetta. You have to adapt. You have to now jump into, okay, we have to do more with less. And the executive team has chosen to take 30% of our budget. So how can we adapt our marketing campaign to where it can fit this? Because right now we're losing money. CFOs don't just cut budget to put money in their pocket. A lot of times, CFOs are looking at the bottom line, which we don't understand and are saying, damn, we gotta cut somewhere. Marketing, you're gonna take a 30% rip on this. Your team better be adaptable. As a leader you should be teaching that they should already know something's gonna come up. Be ready for it, We're gonna work through it this way. We're not gonna bitch about it. We're gonna adapt and push forward. And that's gonna show the board how powerful of a leader you are because you're forging forward instead of bitching about the request.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 48:52

How would you advise? Like directly addressing like the finger pointing? Problem. Uh, I think for this, this is more common in larger organizations where, there's more people that are vying for, better positions, higher salary all across the board. our former managing partner, Lee f Fredrickson. He used to always tell us, we do not have a bus at this company. you can't throw anyone under a bus'cause there is no bus here. but I'm curious, like, how do you directly address this with, uh, an employee who, seems to be readily open to, playing the blame game?

Jonathan Eldridge-2 49:26

I had actually dealt with this when I took over the CXL role with eight 11 Group. The first issue we had was with a major client, and we had had several billing issues that had come up with this client, and the client had now gotten to the point where they were reaching out. So now I'm pissed. this is a whole nother level of we need to jump into this. And the reality was we were not delivering and everybody was pointing fingers at everybody else. And I'm like, stop. Everybody stopped. The next person that points a finger on firing, because that doesn't solve the problem. I don't care where the problem started or originated. I care how we solve it. The client always comes first. So if your negative attitude and finger pointing is gonna impact and affect my client, then we have to really seriously take a step back. That's how I look at that, scenario I would call people out to change and address it head on. That would be my approach.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 50:25

All right. So Jonathan, uh, we are kind of reaching the end of our time here, and we wanted to know if you'd be up for a lightning round,

Jonathan Eldridge-2 50:34

Yeah, I'm up for anything, man. Throw a dart, it'll help me.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 50:37

QQQ, producer, John, the lightning and thunder sounds that we usually get for our lightning rounds, but, uh, we've got three scenarios left. I was thinking we could just run, uh, down through each of them. So Mary Blanche, why don't you take the first one here? Joe, you take the second and then I'll finish up with the last one. But yeah, lightning round, I'd say one minute on the clock. Jonathan, for each of these, uh, I would love to, to get you, round out our whole episode here, get through all the scenarios. So, uh, timer on the clock here. Mary Blanche, why don't you take us away with the first, uh, one we got left over here.

Mary-Blanche-2 51:07

All right, so I'll go with the social media scare since it's right there on the board. Um, so for this one, a junior employee posted a hot take on LinkedIn that went viral for all the wrong reasons. It's, it's technically authentic, but it's alienating a segment of your client base. So firm leadership is livid and they want Amanda to hold her team accountable. Uh, so how should Amanda balance authenticity and compassion with the need for professionalism and the firm's reputation?

Jonathan Eldridge-2 51:36

At the end of the day when you're in the professional services industry, the client is God. The client pays your bills, the client makes sure that you stay employed. And without the clients, your lights don't stay on. So the minute you impact the client, you've taken personal into professional. So I would say I love your, your authenticity. I love your perspective, and I can understand your approach, but right now it's fracturing off a piece of our client base and we cannot have that happen. So I need you to draw back that authenticity and keep it more personal and, and use those on your own site. But as we continue to grow our company, I can't have that on there. it doesn't look good. I understand where you're coming from. I have done the same thing before. You're showing compassion. I don't want you to lose your authenticity, but when it impacts our clients, Now you're really screwing with our business plan.

riverside_joe_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0436 52:31

uh, Jonathan, I, I do, I have a love hate relationship with this next one, but, uh, I'd, I'd like your take on it. The ghosted RFP response. So the firm spent three months on a massive contract bid, and Sarah, the CMO, just found out they lost her team is demoralized. Everyone is blaming the pricing model. It's always pricing. It's always pricing. how should Sarah demonstrate respect for the team while maintaining a sense of urgency to move on to the next pursuit? What does that Monday morning meeting look like? Post the big L.

Jonathan Eldridge-2 53:04

Sarah needs to come in, close the door, sit down with her team and tell them one thing, that failure breeds opportunity. The only way you're going to get opportunity in life is to fail forward. I know how hard you worked on this. I know how hard your team worked on this. You will win the next one. I promise you, if you keep doing what you're doing, you will win this next one. I get it. I understand. Like you don't, you're not always gonna hit on the first one. You gotta stay after it. Stay consistent, keep executing.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 53:33

All right, Jonathan, final scenario for you. Uh, this one, we kind of touched on it a little bit, but this one we're calling the budget blood bath. I guess we're saving the blood bath for the end. the CFO just slashed Rachel's marketing budget by 30%, but the growth targets have stayed the same. She's furious and she feels like the work her team does is not being valued by the rest of the company. Rachel could easily become cynical and defensive towards her peers, but how does she maintain her reputation as a marketing leader while also getting the rest of the executive team to understand how they're putting her in a difficult position?

Jonathan Eldridge-2 54:10

again, this is an adaptability issue. she can ask curiosity questions as to why you're cutting my budget. Is every other budget getting cut as well? Because if it's not, then it's just, you're just creating a woe is me mentality. it goes back to being adaptable. Like guys, they just slashed our budget. They had to market editions are calling for it. What can we do from the standpoint of maybe perhaps using some ai which can help out with cost effective marketing and can help get good messages out there while then still impacting the fact that we have less budget. So I, again, you have to be able to adapt to the seas and they're not always gonna be smooth sailing. And again, you can't finger point, you can't be bitchy about it. You gotta handle it with what you've been served. I didn't get served up perfect plates in Detroit and Pennsylvania. I had to make it happen. And that's the same thing that these people have to do when they get their budget slashed. I mean, you're interviewing today, how do you adapt? Come up with three or four points of how you can, show the board you're going to be able to operate under these new conditions. That's what a true leader would do. Don't bandaid it. Listen to your team's complaints. And then adapt. And then give a three-pronged process to your board as to how you're gonna use that 30% less budget and you're still gonna impact them and bring in more business. That's like doubling down on it. Fine, you're gonna take my budget. I will win more.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 55:30

Love it. I love it. Well, Jonathan, thank you so much for, uh, what I think was such a, uh, enthusiastic, exciting, uh, and insightful episode. Um, where can people, uh, find your book or learn more about you and, and the work that you

Jonathan Eldridge-2 55:46

Yeah, so Struggle to Strength. It's on Amazon dot. you can find it on Amazon. No one needs to.com that you can also find it on Barnes and Nobles. it's on their website. And, um, if you wanna follow me, I'm at Soul Focus mindset.com is my website. Soul Focus Mindset is also, um, my Instagram page that I use. I actually have a YouTube channel. I put it all out there on TikTok. So I'm a one man band putting it all out there, but that's how people can best reach me through my website or just simply picking up the phone and gimme a call.

riverside_austin_mcnair_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0437 56:18

Excellent. Well, we'll be sure to put links in the description. Absolutely. So thank you everyone. Thank you. All the listeners, remember, if you haven't yet and you made it this far in the episode, go ahead and like the video, subscribe to our channel because we have more great guests like Jonathan, uh, who are coming onto the podcast soon. Your support of the show really helps us and, and, and helps us grow the show, uh, and accomplish our goals. So thank you on behalf of Mary Blanche, myself, Joe, Jonathan, this has been another great episode of Spiraling Up. Thank you everybody. We'll see you on the next one.