VP of Marketing Reveals the 4 Tactics That Still Work in 2026

If you could only choose four marketing strategies to rely on for the next year, what would make the cut?

In this episode of Spiraling Up, the team is joined by Dawn Hancock, VP of Marketing at Vertex, for a practical and engaging exercise: building a “Marketing Mount Rushmore.” Each participant selects and defends the four tactics they believe deliver the greatest impact in today’s environment.

The conversation explores how firms can prioritize effectively, allocate resources with intention, and focus on strategies that generate meaningful business outcomes.

Key themes include:

• The role of conferences, gated content, and case studies in driving growth
• How to align marketing efforts with buyer needs and long-term positioning
• Why consistency and value creation matter more than volume
• How to build a cohesive marketing system rather than isolated tactics

Whether you’re refining your marketing strategy or rethinking your approach to business development, this episode offers a clear, experience-backed perspective on what works—and why.

Connect with Dawn on LinkedIn

Check out VERTEX

Transcript

Speaker 3 0:00

What would happen if your company could only lean on four marketing and business development techniques for the rest of the year? What would you choose? The power's in your hands. In today's episode of Spiraling Up, we are gonna go full Rushmore in picking our four favorite marketing and business development techniques for the rest of the year. We're gonna use our data and our experience to make these selections. Along the way, we'll have to explain our decisions and why we think these are the most impactful marketing techniques for this year. Who's gonna end up with the best mountain? You can be the judge and you can play along with us. Welcome everyone. This is spiraling up with Hinge.

Austin McNair 0:46

Welcome everyone to Spiraling Up the podcast for professional services marketers and business leaders. My name is Austin, and as always, I am joined by my brilliant, terrific, awesome colleagues and co-hosts, Mary Blanche Kramer.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 1:02

Hey Austin, it is a beautiful rainy day here in Virginia.

Austin McNair 1:06

Wow. I love that. Joined also by, uh, Joe Pope. What's up Joe? Is it also beautiful and rainy where you are?

Joe Pope 1:13

also Virginia. Also, I love weather. So frankly, anytime we can discuss weather, whether it's at the start of a, um, the start of a zoom or just in back and forth banter, I'm, I'm, I'm here for it. So, while I think Mary Blanche might've been tongue in cheek with beautiful and rainy. I appreciate a beautiful rainstorm,

Austin McNair 1:33

Love it. Well, I appreciate our listeners who, are once again joining us for another great episode of Spiraling Up. if you are watching on YouTube, make sure you like, the video. Leave us a comment. We don't get enough comments. It makes me sad. We want more comments from our listeners. Let us know what stands out to you today. We're gonna be playing, a great game, where you're gonna get the. Play along. We're gonna be, going through, various marketing techniques that we all deal with and, plan and strategize around throughout the year. and we're gonna be talking about those in, regards to marketing impact. We have a terrific guest joining us. but Joe Mary Blanche, I know that next week, uh, conference season is kicking off. Uh, the two of you guys landed a closing keynote presentation where you're gonna be bringing the Spiraling Up podcast live to the stage. Tell us about, uh, what's happening.

Joe Pope 2:22

I have no idea how the SMPS Southeast Regional Conference decided that, the s Spiraling Up podcast was the appropriate, closing keynote. But hey, we are one for one and puttings spiraling up as an option for conferences and, and this is a bit of us drinking our own Kool-Aid, frankly, or the high growth study came out. In the past two years, we've seen a significant upward trend in conferences being an impactful tactic, trying to especially wrap visible expertise. And nothing is more visible than parking your boy on a stool. I don't know, we haven't figured out what the furniture setup is yet. I gotta talk to the Hilton, but something. Couch. Yeah. I, I mean, it's whatever we can frankly carry into there. I mean, whatever Mary Blanche points at in the, uh, lobby and says, we're gonna sit on this and then I'm just gonna pick it up and carry it in there. But you are parking your boy and your girl on stage, being visible and talking about all things, high growth, all things professional development. We even have a special surprise guest joining us as well.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 3:23

Yeah, I am super excited about it. And, um, our special guest, putting him on the hot seat, there's gonna be. Some, some learning, some fun, some games per our podcast usual, and also some motivational growth type topics. So it's, it's a little bit of everything and I'm, we're super excited about it.

Austin McNair 3:41

Well, I'm, I'm really excited for you guys, uh, a little bit bummed that, uh, I won't be a part of it. You guys are gonna be doing the pod live podcast show without me, but, uh, it's not the first time. You guys have done a good job without me in the past, so I know, I know you guys are gonna do great. And yeah, we got more conferences We're gonna be at the a a M Summit in May. Uh, won't be live podcast. I mean, maybe we'll do a live podcast from the floor there. But I'll be, speaking on a session about, getting your subject matter experts more involved in your marketing. I'm really looking forward to that. without further ado, our guest is here and she is ready to go. Uh, I'm so excited for this segment. Uh, we're gonna just talk straight marketing techniques, tactics. It's gonna be practical, it's gonna be helpful. I hope you the audience will enjoy this. Play along with us and let's start the segment.

Joe Pope 4:29

hold up there, partner. We can't jump straight into our segment without talking about something extremely important. And since today we are talking about tactics, growth trajectories, everything under this summit involving data. There is one thing you need on your desk to make sure that you are maximizing. 2026 Mary Blanch. Do you know what it is?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 4:51

It's the high growth study, Joe, duh.

Joe Pope 4:53

Of course. It's the high growth study. It is packed with insights from what works, what doesn't, and what can provide you with everything you need to be plugged in and ready to take on 2026 and beyond. You can actually get your copy of the high growth study at which URL Austin.

Austin McNair 5:11

You can get it for free. This 40 page insight packed report@hingemarketing.com slash hgs. If you're listening to this podcast and you still haven't read the High Growth Study, what are you doing? Go get it. Hinge marketing.com/hgs.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 5:30

All right. So in today's segment, we are talking about real life marketing tactics, which is why we are honored to be joined by the VP of Marketing at Vertex Dawn Hancock. Welcome Dawn.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 5:44

you so much for having me. Yes.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 5:45

Excitement.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 5:48

Dawn has spent in her words, 98% of her career in professional services, She's a CPA, but now she's VP of marketing. So, Dawn, can you tell our listeners a little bit about you and kind of your experience in professional services marketing?

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 6:02

Yes, thank you so much for having me. I'm so thrilled to be here with all of you. And so, yes, I've spent 98% of my career in professional services. I got started in professional services in the Big four and as Austin said, I was actually client facing in public accounting. So I am A CPA, I still do have my license. I don't practice anymore. Thank God. I did it for a couple years. And you know, I never saw the light of day, I never saw my friends and family, and it was also incredibly boring. And so I realized that it was just not for me. And so I transitioned from client facing into marketing and sales focused roles within the big four. and I had double majored in entrepreneurship, which was all about go to market and all of that. But I think having served clients, I had a really unique point of view when it came to actually marketing and selling professional services. Because I'd been on the ground, I understood what clients needed, what they were looking for, and I think it's my secret sauce, that's what makes me a true unicorn, I think. But, I spent most of my career at the very large firms, the big four firms, And I've been with Vertex now for a little over six months and was brought in to build a true strategy first marketing program. And so of course, when my first phone calls panicked on a Friday, my first couple weeks was Joe.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 7:20

people panic and call me in the afternoon on Fridays, it's kind of a calling card of mine.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 7:24

Yeah, I mean, when we're in trouble, like, who are you gonna call, Joe, that's who you're gonna call. but yes, I'm thrilled to be here and I feel like I bring a pretty broad perspective when it comes to tactically what the big firms do and tactically what the small firms do.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 7:37

Yeah. One of the things we thought about when we were making this episode up was that when people are debating the idea of what tactic rocks and which one doesn't, what element you wanna focus on as part of a strategy or what doesn't make as much sense, it opens itself up for some fun commentary. And Dawn, frankly, of all of our clients, every person we talk to, color commentary is your skillset. So We're hoping that that translates well for an entertaining podcast. Really, thank you so much for volunteering to be our victim. I mean, our guest today, and I'm hopeful that the audience agrees by the end of this one.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 8:13

Well, I've got a surprise for us today. So we've already let the audience know a little bit about the segment we're doing today. the main event we're calling it. Marketing Mount Rushmore. Our team did such a great job, uh, pulling this together for us. For those of you watching on YouTube, you're gonna enjoy this. If you're a listener, you might need to check it out because, uh, we have a hilarious, graphic here that is, we're gonna use to, uh, track our picks today. So what are we doing? we're not just gonna list our favorite marketing techniques. We're gonna do this in the style of a sports draft. we're all gonna take turns drafting four essential marketing techniques that to serve a permanent spot in our professional services marketing monument. and the way that the rules work is that once a tactic is off the board, it's gone. No duplicates, no safety nets. Every pick is gotta be defended with a strategic why. Why do we pick it? and we are gonna be choosing from the over 30 techniques from our high growth study. So, Here we are marketing Mount Rushmore. Don, we're gonna give you the first pick as our honored guest. how happy or satisfied are you with, your picture up there on our, stone monument?

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 9:24

Well, first of all, it's been my dream to have my face on a mountain, so this is incredible. This is obviously my next tattoo as well, because this is the most iconic image I've ever seen. And as I said, when we were all in the green room, I am all for replacing crusty, racist white men with literally anything, but replacing them with something that I am very passionate about, like marketing.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 9:46

Yourself. Oh,

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 9:47

Oh, that too. but having the crossover episode between, you know, swapping out the racist with marketing, I didn't know I needed this, so this is gonna be therapeutic. I'm obsessed with this concept.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 10:00

Um, so let's, uh, let's dive in here. Dawn, you have the first pick, so I mean, over 30 possible marketing techniques on the board here. so I mean, kind of a big spot for you here, lots of pressure. for you in your role at Vertex and your expansive history through professional services marketing, what's your number one pick in this spot here?

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 10:22

so my first pick is going to be speaking at conferences and events. when you're in professional services, you are ultimately selling expertise. Right, and we put our expertise on display through multiple channels, multiple forums, but almost none of them take advantage of a captive audience. But when you are speaking at an event that people are in the room, hopefully they're paying attention. If you have a speaker that's engaging and knows what they're doing and understands crowd work and isn't boring and dry, this is your expertise on full display for a captive audience, hopefully it's the right audience and it really doesn't get much better than this when it comes to, sharing your expertise.

Mary-Blanche 10:59

I'm pretty jealous because that was gonna be my first pick. you got me Don. Um, but you know, it's, it's the cornerstone of our visible expert model. I think it's a great choice and, anytime you're speaking at events, it really helps bridge the gap between that offline expertise and that online visibility.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 11:14

Yeah.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 11:15

Don, when you are working with an expert who lands one of these speaking opportunities, what are some of the things that from like you, as the head of marketing, will try to equip them with so that they make the most out of their speaking engagement? I know, sometimes these conferences are like very technical. some of them can be even like quite academic. how do we approach these experts who are maybe are more technical and academic oriented to still think of a speaking opportunity as a marketing opportunity?

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 11:47

So for me, I'm used to working with very technical folks, right? So a lot of accountants, there's a lot of consultants At Vertex, I work with a lot of engineers and expert witnesses, and so these are very technical folks. I found that something that really helps to kind of loosen up some of that technical energy is telling personal stories about things that they've encountered in the field, and it helps to bring their expertise to life and everybody likes talking about themselves, right? So it kind of gets them out of the technical jargon type stuff, and they can talk about themselves and it helps to loosen them up a little bit. And it also contextualizes their expertise in kind of a memorable soundbite that I think is a good way for the audience to have something that they can take away and remember from the presentation versus just kind of a, technical, stream of consciousness if you'll, yeah.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 12:44

Yeah. So Dawn, behind the scenes update here, Mary Blanche and I are delivering a keynote next week. If you were to give us one piece of advice of how we rock the stage, what would it be?

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 12:55

I think that it would be to be yourself because authenticity is, I think, the most important thing. Now, Joe, I might make an exception for you,

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 13:04

I don't know about this. It's a bad idea.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 13:07

I think when you're authentic, there is a certain energy when you're in the room or when you're giving a keynote. That is that intangible thing. And I try to get people into that intangible space by talking about themselves. And part of why I think that helps to drive that is because it helps them to be authentic. It grounds them in something that they're familiar with. It grounds'em in who they are and the expertise that they bring in a real world example. And I think that when you just get in a room and you rattle off a bunch of technical stuff, it can get boring really quick. And if you don't have that personality that's attached to it, I think you lose the ability to capture the attention of the audience. So I would say be yourself, but Joe, like maybe at 50%, just so we don't alienate anyone,

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 13:50

just tone it down so I don't end up canceled or worse.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 13:54

All right. I love the first pick. That's a strong first pick. and apparently you stole Mary Blanche's. So let's see how Mary Blanche, pivots here. second pick. Mary, you're up.

Mary-Blanche 14:04

Okay, so I'm actually gonna completely pivot from the conference world in my next pick. And this one might surprise y'all a little bit, but I've been really trying to push this internally, this year. But it's promoting thought leadership on social media. so this year we've seen a pretty, significant strategic shift from content production to content promotion. and it's just not enough anymore to to have smart ideas. You need to have your experts be visible where your audience lives. And they're on social media, they're on LinkedIn, they're on Instagram. so. growth firms, they're two and a half times more likely to have highly active experts who use social media platforms to build authentic trust. So looking at the report from this year, the data really speaks for itself on this one.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 14:45

Absolutely. The visible expert angle is just so of obvious in everything that we've seen, especially over the last few years in terms of our research. It's what, two and a half times I think, right? High growth organizations are gonna likely to involve visible experts as part of their larger strategy. That authenticity piece, Dawn, that you were just talking about, being in person as well. I mean, if you're using your social media to be authentic, which also means that you can't just plug it into Gemini and have it do it for you, That's bullshit. I wanna read updates on why Taylor Swift can be perfectly tied into, B2B sales people can be more effective. that is the type of content I'm looking for, for social media, but I mean, if you tie it back to something that's really insightful, something that really. Brings in some true insight, towards what data makes a difference, what, success looks like, how you can solve a challenge, all that type of thing is a great way to just make great, strong connections and can help you stand out in what is an AI junk filled world.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 15:41

I, um, give a lot of LinkedIn trainings, to our clients. And one of the reasons I like this pick so much Mary Blanche is because, the thought leadership angle to this doesn't mean that people have to all just go on there and post a bunch of times per week on LinkedIn, Some people will, and some people can, but not everybody's comfortable using social media that way. Most of our experts don't log into LinkedIn more than, you know, a couple times per month. the biggest shift I try to encourage or train people to make in the LinkedIn space specifically is to go out there and engage with other people's content, right? If there's other industry leaders, peers, or even like your own clients and prospects, like you can get a ton of value from using LinkedIn just by building relationships on the platform. You know, you don't see somebody in person every week or every month, even sometimes, you know, every year, but you can maintain a relationship with someone on social media simply by, engaging with them naturally and organically in the kinds of things that they share and post. Um, Don, I'm what do you see as kind of The biggest barrier to overcome in trying to help your team maybe from a BDS perspective, like adopt more of a proactive use of something like LinkedIn.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 16:56

I think some of it is just they don't understand the platform, some of it is just technical. but I think beyond that, there is. A reticence to adopt social media simply because they don't know exactly how to do it. they don't know how to make their posts engaging. They don't understand really what you even should be talking about on social media. And I get it, they're not marketers, right? they shouldn't necessarily understand that. And that's where I think a marketing function can add a lot of value by helping to frame, especially with you're experts in your area of expertise, whatever that is, we are experts in how we take that expertise and package it in a compelling way for the market. And Mary Blanc, this was one of my picks. So, you are my arch nemesis now in the same, but, um. But it, this is one of the channels that we do this through, right? It's taking that expertise and packaging it in a resonant way. And I think, you know, we all know that marketing's not really a field of dreams. It's not like if you build it, they will come. So you have to invite them. And part of how you invite them is, actually engaging with people through posting on your channels, through posting on other people's channels and bringing that authenticity.'cause ultimately, when you're selling, we're just people talking to people. And I think sometimes we forget that, right? Like these are just people and we forget some of just the natural, organic ways that we should be interacting. It just happens to be in a digital platform.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 18:20

All right, I've got the next pick. and I'm gonna go with something. When I look at the high growth study, I have, seen a trend of one technique that every year is just creeping up the leaderboard in terms of, adoption and, marketing impact. And that's gonna be with marketing video, and like video blogging, those kinds of things. I think one of the biggest challenges that a lot of digital marketers are dealing with right now is that it is never been harder right now to actually break through and capture somebody's attention across all digital channels, social media, we were just talking about that. I mean, if you think about your, corporate profile, you know, profile views are down, less people are engaging with your company profile. you know, the algorithm has just kind of completely tanked that. and then similarly in like the search engine space, Google and these other, search engine platforms, they have started cluttering these pages with ads and a IO reviews, which even if you had like really strong. Search engine like pages, the likelihood that people are clicking through to your website right now is like gone down. one of the hacks, if there is a hack, I'm not really a believer in hacks. If there is a like way to kind of finesse this situation, I think it's through video. I think video is still one of these areas where not a lot of professional services firms have fully adopted into integrating video into their content strategy, into their thought leadership strategy. And the best part about it is that once you start recording video with your experts, it can really. Be placed everywhere. It can go on social media, have its own kind of life and grow visibility organically on YouTube. You put it on your website, attach it to blog posts. There's so many use cases in developing a video strategy, and I think that right now it's something I'm, advising a lot of our clients to think about. Oh, and by the way, apparently AI loves video content. So, for all those reasons I'm going with video. Anybody wanna pick apart my, selection?

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 20:25

I think the authenticity word, which has been a reoccurring theme on this podcast for a few episodes in a row now is the key here. And while certainly Nano Banana and all these tools are making more and more, uh, uh, attempts at trying to make something that's authentic from a video perspective in the AI world. What it comes down to is, uh, professional service is all about trust. And if you could see someone and listen to them talk, you're more likely to trust them. You're more likely to believe what they have to say, that it was actually something original, for example. Right? Whereas nowadays when you read something on a website online, Twitter or x, whatever it's called, you are not even sure like, is this something that truly was original thought or was it just churned out by chat PT? So I think the video angle is key in 2026 and beyond.

Mary-Blanche 21:15

What I love about all three of these picks so far, you've heard the words trust and authenticity shine through in each of these. great picks all around. So yeah. Awesome. Good one.

Austin McNair 21:24

All right, cool. Joe, you're up, uh, to close out the first round here. what are you gonna go with?

Joe Pope 21:32

So I think part of how we're gonna look at this entire board at the end is how does your four tactics kind of play with each other and trying to make sure that we don't leave a gap. Well, one way to not leave a gap is to offer live service and product demonstrations as a part of your larger marketing strategy. And this also plays on the trust and the authenticity piece. And it is also something that we constantly see show up in the high growth study as a higher tactic. A lot of people think, oh, well that's truly a sales piece. Well, professional services comes in a lot of different shapes and sizes. You have your seller doers, you have your pro sales folks. Neither of which I am. So there's also folks where, you know, a part of their role is to just make good, strong connections. And a great way to make a strong connection is to help explain what your future client is going to receive when they work with you. And there's a variety of ways you can do that. you can walk them through, previous deliverables or sanitized deliverables. You can help answer specific questions of how their challenges might get solved using your organization's solutions or differentiators. So by providing the live aspect where we get people on a zoom, or even sometimes in person, you're creating that connection that helps them make that final buying decision that follows all of those marketing efforts and pieces that came before it.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 22:54

Yeah, I guess not surprising that, you know, with, your role in an area of expertise that you went kind of bottom of the funnel tactic here. I'll throw it over to Don. Don, you know, in your experience as a marketer, how have you tried to set up these kinds of, live demos or SII, this is also very, closely associated with another. Area on the board here, which I think we call assessments and consultations. We're not gonna give Joe both here unless he steals both at the end of the next round. I'm just wondering from a marketing perspective, like a call to action strategy, what have you seen work in terms of, appealing to prospects who might be a little bit further down in the marketing funnel and trying to get a conversation started?

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 23:36

Yeah. And, and no one better take the providing free assessments.'cause I, you know, it might be on my list as one of my preferred tactics. So no one better take that. But I think that this is a really powerful way of approaching a client or a prospective client because it helps to put the, the client can see themselves in your story. So when you're going to market with your content, you're telling a story. And as Joe said, you're ultimately building trust, right? And you're talking about the value that you can bring. And it should, if you're doing this strategically, it should align around. The pain points or the issues that your clients and prospects are facing, right? but when they're sort of seeing it in theory as they are interacting with your content, but then when they're able to actually see it all the way down to this is what it looks like, they can actually see themselves in your story. And it's like a mirror moment, right? It's like you're reflecting to them, Hey, we've been talking about the value we can bring, but now we bring it all the way home and they can see themselves and then they're like, oh, I want that. I need that. and it, it can be a really compelling way to kind of close the sale especially. So obviously no surprise that Joe would emphasize that bottom of the funnel. But I mean, this is where the kind of rubber meets the road, right? It's like where everything we're doing ultimately converts. And this is, in my experience, a very powerful conversion moment.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 24:57

Mirroring. It's so important. It's like a therapy session, except they pay you at the end.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 25:02

Yeah. Yeah. And you just usually don't talk about your trauma in these contexts, but other than that, yeah, definitely a therapy moment.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 25:10

This is, this is why I have to dial my authenticity down 50%, but yeah.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 25:14

We don't.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 25:17

All right. Well, we are not doing a snake draft. This is not, uh, fantasy football. Yeah, no, no. It's back to the top of the lineup. So Don, uh, you, uh, get the next pick here.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 25:29

Okay, so I'm gonna go with downloadable gated content here, because I think that, as I was just saying, which I sort of perfectly segued myself, um, but if you're offering valuable content across, you know, your speaking engagements as we spoke about at the top of the pod, across your social media, which we discussed, then people are ultimately, eventually gonna take the action that you want them to take, which is to go to your website and ultimately, you know, download. ideally a gated piece of content. And I think that the key here with your content and with your gated content, of course, is that none of this can be empty calories, right? Like this has to be actually substantive, meaty value add, problem solving, issues oriented content that is meaningful to your clients and your prospects. but the reason why I love the downloadable content is because this is the first time that you kind of get something back from your audience, right? So you're giving them this content in all your different channels, and then if you're doing it right, they come to your website, they take this action, and then you have permission to engage with them going forward, and you have permission to engage with them in the future. And you can, of course put them on your email newsletter list. You can connect with them, make sure hopefully you have a strong segmentation. You understand sort of how they got there, what issues are relevant to them. So the content that you're pushing to them is strategic and aligned with their issues. this is something that I really. Love. And that I think can be very powerful for clients and prospects because if you are solving their problems before they've given you any money, all they've given you is their attention currency, then you're appropriately bringing them through the funnel, but you are positioning yourself as that strategic partner, and that's what's gonna ultimately drive long-term client relationships, especially in professional services.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 27:18

And I would underscore there what you said about the quality, like making sure that what you offer in the form of like downloadable content is truly helpful and relevant to the people downloading it. I, I'm certainly beginning to see a trend where, it looks like, people, marketers specifically are getting apprehensive about gating high quality content and just making it open access. I, I think that ties back to what I was saying before about how capturing someone's attention right now is so hard, and I think that the, I. You know, easy route that a lot of marketers are trying to do is like, okay, well I'm just not gonna gate anything on my website anymore. and we're just gonna give everything out for free, hoping that that turns into more marketing, like positive marketing energy. but for all the reasons you mentioned, Don, I don't think inbound marketing in general, inbound content marketing is dead by any stretch of the imagination. I think the hardest piece is capturing that intention in the first place. I have seen no data yet that suggests that people aren't willing to give a name and an email address for something that they truly find will be helpful. and yeah, as you mentioned, for the value of tracking and nurturing relationships and understanding what client's issues are, what they're interested in, I think that gated content's a fantastic selection.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 28:39

on gated content because it helps to prove the value of what preceded it in the marketing funnel, right? So when we as an organization that focuses on marketing have to help our clients really see how their funnel is performing, gated content is a key conversion point that allows you to really see how your visitors and prospects are turning into M qls and SQLs, what sort of potential there's going to be to generate and move them forward. So, I mean, there's no reason why you can't. Reuse gated content in a way where you're perhaps parsing it out and keeping it as smaller thoughts that don't really truly give away the whole farm that you're providing in that guide, for example. Or maybe research report. And I didn't wanna say research'cause I know that that's gonna be one that gets picked at some point in this draft, but that, that is, are you clearing your throat? Because you're gonna pick that, Austin,

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 29:28

No.

Mary-Blanche 29:30

Foreshadowing.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 29:33

this is not rigged, I swear.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 29:35

I don't want MB to snipe. Snipe my pick.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 29:38

Well, now it's out. It's out there. Too bad.

Mary Blanche 29:41

it might transition into our, uh, into my pick, which in fact is conducting and publishing

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 29:47

Damn it.

Mary-Blanche 29:50

sorry, Austin.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 29:51

Sorry, Austin did not mean to do that. I'm just gonna stop talking and let Mary Blanche explain.

Mary Blanche 29:56

Okay. So for this one, I mean, there's nothing that builds authority faster than owning the data, right? So it makes your firm not just a primary source for your prospects, but for the media at large. And so, I mean, talk about an ultimate differentiator, right? So while your competitors are out there sharing their opinions, you instead are sharing facts that help clients actually solve their business challenges. So, yep. I'm gonna take that and slide that into my number two spot.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 30:25

Sorry, Austin.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 30:26

yeah, seriously. No, I, that's a great pick. it's really hard to stand out with content right now, and I think that the value of, informational content is approaching the horizon of, zero because, all that information is now available through large language models. And if people wanna learn about a topic, large language model has already gone and stolen all of our content and, is regurgitating it to people on demand. So, a way to Enter the marketplace with an original voice. And like you said, authority, is to do kind of your own proprietary research. It gives you data that only you can speak about. Uh, it arms your experts with like a central like, uh, piece of content that they can always go back to in reference. there's just so many benefits to having original research on hand.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 31:16

I think that when you take some of the, burden of producing content actually off of your experts, and you conduct original research for all the reasons that Mary Blanche just outlined, which I completely agree with, it's such a differentiator and it's not replicable, right? unless someone literally does the exact same, study or research that you do, it's very unlikely that they're going to be able to replicate what you've put out there. And so it's such a clear way of differentiating your content strategy. And to Joe's point, it can really help to streamline the content creation process because you can lean a little less heavily on your experts themselves, while still creating something that's relevant to and exists within their ecosystem of expertise. So it's kind of the best of both worlds when it comes to content creation.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 32:08

Amen. Amen. All right, Austin, what are you gonna do now that you lost your baby?

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 32:13

Oh, it's a hard choice now. I do still want to pick something that is, it seems like we're kind of second row here, thinking like middle of the funnel. How do we nurture people? I'm gonna go with an email newsletter. I see if there's one area in digital marketing where I see the widest discrepancy in terms of how this tactic could be interpreted or employed. It's probably an email newsletter. let me tell you what I'm thinking about and I'll draw some contrast to some of the things I see out there. I'm thinking about A newsletter that is centralized, sometimes attached specifically to one or maybe a group of, subject matter experts. And it is written specifically as a thought leadership forward, newsletter with articles, that clearly, takes a stance, takes a perspective for a certain industry on a certain topic. and it is consistent. For example, at Hinge, we have a newsletter that comes out from our, managing partner, Liz Har, every Friday. And it is a substantive article about and around everything, professional services, marketing, it's consistent, it's to the point and we can repurpose it. It goes up on LinkedIn. Oftentimes they're rewritten, published on our website. I think it is an excellent tactic. What I don't mean by an eNewsletter is just kind of a summary of everything happening at the company. Like some news articles, some press releases, some upcoming events, that I think had its time and for a lot of companies where their email list is centered around, or built around their existing customer base. I think there is a role for that kind of like content structure, you know, communications and stuff, but I'm thinking, of a newsletter as almost its separate campaign, like something that's built, it's delivered consistently and then other email things can be going on too. I think there is like other. Categories that we could choose from, that involve email. This is specifically like a newsletter piece. And so if I've already picked video, What would like my call to action be at the end of my videos. Hey, subscribe to my newsletter. Something like that. That's kind of where I'm going with my one, two, selection.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 34:16

Or reverse you, you in your newsletter, shout out your video content and help drive people to those pages, which hopefully will then drive additional algorithm love from the YouTubes of the world.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 34:27

you're making a strong case for why I have the best, uh, best combo so far.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 34:30

I was gonna make a pivot joke in saying, great pivot there, Austin, and hope that that pun of hinges newsletter came through if you're paying attention, that's the name of Hinges Newsletter Pivot. All right, so anyways, my turn.

Mary-Blanche 34:42

Your turn.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 34:43

go ahead Joe.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 34:44

something? Can I say something about this? Sorry,

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 34:46

you can interrupt me.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 34:47

I love this pick, and I just wanted to say that the comment about it not being just a roundup of company news, something that I see a lot, especially in expert driven professional services is we design our marketing for ourselves. We are like marketing to ourselves and our content. We're talking to ourselves. Our websites are oriented around us, how we think about issues, how we talk about things. And I think the newsletter is one place where this comes into play because if you're just sending a roundup of company news. Literally who gives a fuck? why is that relevant at all? it is not relevant. Your clients are not sitting there thinking, God, I wonder what's going on with Hinge? I wonder what's going on with Vertex. Nobody is thinking about that because nobody gives a shit about that. They're thinking about their issues. Their issues are keeping them up at night. And so your newsletter, every touch point, but especially in newsletter,'cause newsletters are really nice because they go directly to the individual, right directly to their inbox. For people that are busy, like me running around with my hair on fire 24 7, it's really the only way to sort of catch me other than maybe a text message. um, but if you are actually solving an issue instead of just talking about yourself, that is how you're gonna add value and demonstrate that you are a trustworthy partner, for that client going forward.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 36:05

you heard it here, first folks, an actual client of Hinge is telling you how important it is to not just focus on talking on yourself. I can't tell you, Don, how many times we get into an initial conversation. We're starting in strategic engagements with, our clients and they just really struggle with that. there's a place and a time to talk about your organization, and it's your culture and employee page. It is not in your newsletter.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 36:28

a hundred percent.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 36:30

I love it. That was such excellent, perspective. Don. I'm glad you interrupted Joe.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 36:34

do that at any time.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 36:38

All right, Joe. finish the second round for us and then we're gonna get into our, lightning rounds,'cause we've been very thorough with our explanation so far. we're gonna have to speed it up

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 36:45

of saying that we're taking

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 36:47

We're running outta time. Yeah.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 36:51

Uh, I wanna talk about spending money, something I'm unfortunately very good at, but something that I think is becoming more and more important in professional services. Hinge wrote a book called Spiraling Up. You may have heard that name before, 10, 15 years ago at this point. It's been a long time. And in that book, it was very much kind of the dawn of digital marketing, for, professional services organizations. And there were ways and tactics that helped these groups grow faster by spending actually less money. The era of easy growth is dead, and that has been a topic on this podcast and as well as our content for quite some time. And one of the most striking figures that stood out in hinges high growth study was how the marketing percentage of high growth organizations, was more than two times. their no growth and low growth firms. Frankly, high growth organizations are buying. Attention. And one of the ways that organizations can do that is through digital advertising. And while that, I mean as recent as five or six years ago, was not necessarily a good bang for your buck investment for most professional services firms, and I'm not talking about the big fours and the large guys that can pay for it nowadays, when you are trying to stand out in your specific niche, and that is the big key here, if you are trying to stand out in what truly differentiates yourself, getting yourself to the top of the list on Google is imperative. And it's also important for you to defend your own brand. Nowadays, a lot of organizations are finding themselves below the fold, if you will, in search because larger companies are buying branded keywords. You have to sometimes even just defend your own name. And that is why nowadays, in professional services, an investment in digital advertising when done strategically is imperative for a marketing growth strategy.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 38:38

Well said. And so just to clarify, you're choosing pay per click advertising.'cause I think we have another option on here for LinkedIn advertising campaigns social media

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 38:46

but social. Yeah. Well, I mean, social is important too, but I, I think I'm only allowed to pick one. So I'm gonna go with digital ads as a whole, and not just PPC, but also focusing on things like banner and retargeting and so forth.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 38:58

I think you've made the point well there that, we have entered into a period of time where it's just more crowded. There's more people doing more digital marketing. And with that increase in volume, you already said it really well. The high growth firms are spending more, and this is the kind of thing that they're doing. They're doing more pay-per-click ads, they're doing more LinkedIn campaigns when they show up to a conference or an event, they're not picking the bronze package. They're picking the gold package. Like those high growth, it's exactly what's happening. It's that these companies are jumping in and spending more for the visibility it's, it's what's needed to really capture people's attention. what's your perspective on that? Is that when our research came out, was that surprising to you that there's such a correlation between the companies growing faster and the companies that are, spending more on marketing.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 39:44

I mean, the correlation makes sense, right? I think in any area of life you have to invest in order to see. Fruit from that area. So whether it's time, money, et cetera. So I think that correlation or even causal relationship isn't surprising to me at all. I will say that something that I've seen here is that a lot of times paid is viewed as like the silver bullet. You don't need to have a concrete strategy. You don't need to have a strong organic strategy. You don't need to be oriented around client issues. You just need to throw some money at the problem and that's gonna solve it. And I don't think we all know that that's not the case. what Joe is talking about is so crucial, but it is downstream of a well-informed strategy, a strong organic strategy, and this is just an amplification of an entire engine that's well designed, well constructed and aligned with client issues.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 40:34

Brilliant. Yep. Straight up.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 40:35

Brilliant. Yeah,

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 40:35

can't, there's no hack. Uh, I think Austin said it correctly. Uh, if you think that paid is going to be your growth hack, that's incorrect. It needs to be a piece of your larger approach like

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 40:45

Yeah. And,

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 40:46

demos.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 40:47

hearing don talk, say, say, that makes me want to retract what I said about newsletters being where the biggest discrepancy is in quality. I, I actually pay per click campaigns. We definitely see a lot of people stand those up and just try to see if it's gonna work, without considering how good your landing page is gonna, be, what are we trying to run ads for? the strategy and all the things you mentioned. Yeah, exactly. there's a, there could be a big gap. Google's not gonna stop you. they will take your money every time. you plug the credit card in there, it will say, cool, let's go. You know, it doesn't care if your ads are performing or not. alright, round three and four, we're gonna move a little bit quicker, so that we can give some time to see who's got the best mountain. Dawn, you're back up top of the lineup. What's next?

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 41:30

Yeah. So my third choice here is gonna be case studies. I think in professional services especially case studies are incredibly powerful. They are proof points and in my experience, they work at every phase of the funnel. similar to what we talked about with that kind of mirror moment that clients have when they see a demonstration, this is kind of like a demonstration light, right? It's in a slightly different context, but it's actually showing a client, Hey, this is what we can do. And they see themselves in your story. They see themselves in your value proposition. So case studies, I think are indispensable when it comes to professional services marketing.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 42:06

Well said. Mary Blanche, what's your next pick?

Mary-Blanche 42:09

Okay, so for my third pick, I'm gonna go with marketing partnerships, with other organizations. and that's really because we, at Hinge, we've had su such, success in, in our own partnerships. And we know that the high growth firms, they're not going in alone. They have co-branded educational events, they're co-branding research projects. They're co-authoring blogs. So, you know, it really is a, a highly efficient way to access new and already pre, pre-qualified leads.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 42:37

It is hard enough on your own, so you might as well lean on a friend. I completely agree. it's gonna become more and more important too, especially as large language models. take a hold of insights and information for one group from other locations. So you show up on other people's websites, reviews, things along those lines. You're gonna be in a good shape. And I just said my crutch word. I made it 46 minutes into this podcast. Uh, all right.

Mary-Blanche 43:00

I was gonna congratulate you after

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 43:02

Yeah.

Mary-Blanche 43:03

getting there.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 43:04

all right, I'm next on the board and I feel like I can't, it would be a shame, if I didn't bring up the, SEO in GEO. topic that I have been, rampaging about, over the last three months. Uh, I just, this is an area in professional services marketing that is changing faster than any other space. And I think that, early adopters of, especially trying to understand AI search, get in front of it, to do this tactic really well. it. Already assumes that you're creating your own kind of website content, thought leadership content. It also probably assumes that you're doing a degree of earned media and outreach and press releases, influencing AI engines, doing all the kinds of things that we talked about on our last episode with, Leah from Brandy. there's a whole lot of marketing tactics that come behind that. but right now, again, I think people that are focused and paying attention to this GEO space, they are going to reach a degree of success that is gonna make a lot of people feel left behind, in a couple of years as the trend continues to move in the direction of AI search. And soon it's just gonna become invisible. You know, think about how outdated something like a Yellow Pages, physical book feels to you. I don't think it's gonna be that long before we think of. Search engines like that and kind of the traditional, you know, like Google search, ask Jevs to go back to that one

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 44:30

Oh my gosh,

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 44:32

like,

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 44:33

Oh my God.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 44:33

think think about how old that sounds to you. But like that is how old the current model of Google search is gonna feel to us because AI is gonna get so good at answering our questions and making product recommendations and giving us answers. so I just think that it's imperative that everybody's paying attention to this at a minimum. Joe next pick.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 44:55

So it's interesting, you mentioned something, and I think this is probably might go over as a confusing one, but, you referenced Yellow Pages, right? Like a place where all information was, for a very long time, people went to their white pages, their yellow pages, those big books, and then the internet took over, you know, 15, 20 years ago. And people started creating directories online, digital directories, and a lot of times in professional services folks looked at that as well. That's a money grab to just try to get, put my name on some sort of form or some sort of list. And then G-E-O-L-L-M and all these AI elements came to become more and more important and suddenly. Just having your keywords associated with your website isn't enough anymore, and that trend is going to continue. So now we have these authoritative websites like Clutch, G two, Crunchbase, and even review sites like Glassdoor, which of course can be the bane of many professional organizations. having insights and information on organizations there suddenly is showing up in chat. GPT, it's showing up in Gemini and Claude and so forth. Being able to have your messages or messages that somebody wrote about you, front and center on these sites is now an extremely important factor in GEO or how we're being found. So I'm gonna go with directory listings, which Austin already put on the screen because he wants me to just move on quickly.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 46:18

You are done.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 46:18

Now you said, you said it, you, you, the words directory listings came out of your mouth. Yeah.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 46:26

I just, you know, I black out, I'm just going to pontification mode and I don't even realize what I'm saying.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 46:31

it's definitely something under the context of what we talked about with GEO and customer views are huge. when someone asks an AI engine, who's better, this firm or that firm, AI is going to give them an answer, right? And we can either take control of those narratives by, soliciting high quality, trusted customer reviews and steering the direction of kind of how people talk about our company. Or we can just ignore this and let AI make something up. those seem like the two options right now. All right. last round, Don, you've got your mountain of marketing, masterclass here, speaking at conferences, gated content case studies. what's the last one you you'd do to round it out?

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 47:13

Yeah. So my final pick is going to be providing free assessments. so I think this is the moment where you take all of the value that you've been telling clients you provide, and you actually provide it. And it gives you an opportunity to apply what they've seen in your case, studies, what they've seen in your content directly to their unique issue, their unique challenge, their unique situation. And it goes so far in building that trust connection with a potential client that I think It's invaluable when it comes to working within professional services for sure.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 47:51

many of the reasons what I was tying back to my live services and demo thing, Dawn. So yeah, absolutely. it's an imperative piece and more important now than ever when people are trying to make a decision on who to trust at the last step of the journey.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 48:06

All right, Mary Blanche

Mary Blanche 48:08

have to have some sort of networking conference, So I'm gonna go with hosting a conference or this is the first year that hosting an event, broke into our top 10 list. so high growth firms are no longer just participating in the industry conversations. They're starting to create those platforms where those conversations are happening. So if you're the company that's owning the venue, you're really positioning your firm as the definitive authority and really that central hub for your target audience.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 48:37

Mary Blanc, I would agree with this. I think that especially when you are a convener within your industry of some of the top thinkers, some of the top leaders, it goes such a long way towards positioning yourself as that strategic partner and being a place where people look to hear from their peers, to hear from other people that are facing some of the same challenges and issues. So this, I think, is a very powerful tactic.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 49:01

I am looking at Mary Blanche's four right now and how they could potentially all tie together, and I'm seeing the makings of a really solid, really solid strategy. The partnership angle here could also be extremely important if we're leaning on folks to be able to help us put those butts and seats at said conference or said event, having partners and centering it around, for example, original research. Not to make your argument for you Mary Blanche, but, Austin and I and these next last picks to see if we can take you down.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 49:29

the thing that everyone should know about hosting a conference or an event, this was the first year this was included in the high growth study and on the list of like, techniques that were at the top of marketing impact, it was at the very top. And in some industries it was at the top. it's clear that, There has been a pendulum swing in the digital to traditional marketing space where people are finding a lot of value and impact by being in person, networking. and if you can control that narrative, control that stage and be the person or the group inviting people into that space, I think it's excellent. for all the same reasons I just mentioned, I have to have something that's like in person. I can't just do the digital marketing techniques and keep it there. I need to bring some balance to the force. And so I'm gonna say networking at conferences, so I can't be the speaker here. That was our first pick. but I will go with networking at conferences. I think it's an important, component to professional services marketing. And you gotta get out there and be in person. You gotta meet people, you gotta position your people to go out there and build relationships. And, I think it's just you go back to the foundations of professional services marketing. so much of it is built in these spaces and in these encounters where you're meeting people at events. So I'm gonna go with the networking piece. Joe, what are you gonna go with?

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 50:43

I got a comment though. This one makes perfect sense for you. Austin, after watching you, work the floor at the Association of Accounting Marketers event last year, the summit event, the Austin McNair was certainly someone who was having a quite a group of people surrounding him throughout that event. I've rarely gone to, an event like this'cause my whole career is based on this type of thing where I was extremely second fiddle. Austin was rocking that floor and it makes perfect sense why,

Mary-Blanche 51:10

standing

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 51:11

this one. People were, there was a

Mary-Blanche 51:13

They literally were.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 51:14

This is a lie. This is such an exaggeration, but yes, keep it going. Keep it going.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 51:20

in your presence. Okay, last pick. And If I didn't pick this topic, I wouldn't be promoting what the whole purpose behind creating content like this in the form of a podcast and why it's so important. So Hinge launched our original podcast, the Visible Expert, a few years ago, and it was instantly a way for us to connect with leaders, thought leaders in the marketplace, speaking to why their experience was super important and valuable. It still resonates, it still gets downloads even after, you know, COVID kind of put a fork in some of the ability to do in-person podcast recordings. But we revived podcasting as an approach for Hinge, in this last year. And we actually have just now gone past the one year mark in producing content in the form of podcast and video. What we have seen. I have the data to prove this. And John, you can just like put a screenshot on just throw the screenshot. It's just a continuous upward trajectory of interactions, of downloads, of our content from links that we put in it, time on videos increasing as we just continue to grow visibility and having awesome and fun discussions like this one we've had today. So podcasting is a absolute vehicle of growth for organizations. Hinge is a living example of that. I was in a sales call yesterday and the absolute first thing that the gentleman said was, I just finished watching your podcast on GEO. Holy shit, I did not understand what that meant. And now suddenly I've got this insight from somebody who literally does this for a living and a conversation about branding. This guy's interested in having us lead a rebrand for his government contracting company. We spent 15 minutes talking about GEO. So there is avenues to connecting your insights in the form of, something that's truly authentic, a podcast, and I think more professional services organizations are gonna find that this is a easy way, a hack, if you will, to get your experts front and center.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 53:18

Excellent stuff. Well, I think we now turn it over to the audience. Leave a comment. Whose, mountain of marketing do you love the most? we've got Don with speaking at conferences, gated content, case studies and consultations. Super well balanced, very strong. Mary Blanche similarly with, a LinkedIn social strategy, original research, marketing partnerships, and hosting a conference. A lot of synergy there. I went with video content, email newsletter, S-E-O-G-E-O and networking. And then Joe went with live demos, digital ads, directory listings, and podcasting. So a lot of diversity there, within his and within mine. I know that Don is not gonna accept participation trophies if I just look at all of these and say, oh, man, like, you know,

Mary-Blanche 54:08

all winners.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 54:08

they're all winners. so I will throw it to you guys. I mean, which of these four do you, uh, do you gravitate towards?

Mary-Blanche 54:17

So to me, I think the most well-rounded are Dawn and Austin's. for me, I'm giving it to dawn on this one. I really love the tie in with speaking at conferences and the consultations. And that's because every single target audience and vertical that you have, you don't necessarily have anyone you can partner with or a place that you can go network. And so when you compare the getting in front of people at conferences with consultations, you're really able to hit, your full spectrum of an audience and then gated content and case studies like check, check. So I'm giving the one to dawn on this one.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 54:53

right. One win for Dawn Joe,

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 54:56

do I get to just vote for myself?

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 54:58

vote for yourself.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 54:59

I knew she was gonna vote for herself, so I was gonna let Joe

Mary-Blanche 55:02

yes, I'm awesome. Two votes.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 55:05

mean, I am unashamedly obviously biased, but, I, I do think that my, my mountain is, is, is well balanced and strong, just as Mary Blanche said. Although I do, um, wanna say that I agree with Joe's comments earlier about Mary Blanche's pillar as well. I think, you know, she took a number of the, the items that were on my list as we were sort of, arch and emes throughout this game. I think the primary research for sure is just absolutely crucial and coupled with the rest of the items that she has in her ecosystem, I think would be a very strong program.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 55:39

Yeah. I think the ladies definitely have the two strongest uh, on this board. it's the most balanced, especially for professional services, and that kind of is our focus, you know, professional services, marketing, branding agency. You can find us@hingemarketing.com. but yeah, I mean, looking at the board, I still lean towards Mary Blanc, like I was saying last time, or a few minutes ago. And the biggest reason is that connection between, original research partnerships and hosting conferences. I think that is in a modern professional services blend. If you can truly create that type of ecosystem, that's really gonna help win the day I look at my list and I'm like, man, am I selling like Salesforce or something? Because I look like a tech. I look like the most tech broy, re repertoire of all time. Which I guess is cool if I lived in, the Silicon Valley and was starting my startup. but unfortunately I live in, the Mid-Atlantic and I talk about marketing and branding. So I, I'll take the l in this one. A reoccurring theme in this podcast.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 56:40

So who, what? No. What, but Joe, what, who tips the scale there between Don and Mary Blanche?

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 56:44

I said Mary Blanche. Yeah, I think Mary Blanche has it. but they're both the strongest by far.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 56:49

Okay. Well, I, I, I was, I agree. I, I, that, I think they had the strongest ones. I was gonna tip the scale towards Dawn because, um. Looking at the data, there's just, we have a historical track record, especially like from the gate, her starting off with speaking at targeted conferences, the consultations and assessments, case studies. I say especially for folks who are in the, consulting space, case studies have an outsized importance, for that industry. so yeah, I took the scale in that direction, which leaves us with a two to two tie. Are you Dawn, are you and Mary Blanche Okay with tying?

Mary-Blanche 57:26

No, I think Dawn won. She voted, she gave

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 57:28

I I voted for myself

Mary-Blanche 57:30

the winner.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 57:31

Oh, she voted for herself.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 57:33

Oh, that's right. Mary Blanche picked Dawn as

Mary-Blanche 57:35

So here's

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 57:35

think she was

Mary-Blanche 57:36

Dawn is

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 57:37

modest and she said yours was good, Austen, and let's, frankly, it is not as good as her own.

Mary-Blanche 57:42

Joe. Sh So Don takes first. I take second. Austin got my second vote, so he's third. And Joe, once again, taking that last

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 57:57

Well earned L Joe. Well done.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 58:00

Well, at

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 58:01

I am about to change my vote to Joe.

Mary-Blanche 58:04

your day will come.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 58:06

No sympathy votes allowed. Austin,

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 58:07

It's, that Simpsons meme where he walks out with the, at least you tried cake.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 58:11

Yeah, that's you.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 58:14

I have a great idea. I think we're gonna take the rushmores and we're gonna bring it to socials. We'll put up some polls and we'll let, the followers of spiraling up and other, avenues. if Dawn, if you wanna throw it up on your profiles, we can see who the mob thinks was the winner.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 58:28

all right. I love that.

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 58:29

very on point though that the ladies beat the white men. Given that this is a Rushmore theme, like I feel like we kept it on scene. We kept it on brand like well done team.

joe-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 58:42

I get the participation award of looking as good as I did on that

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 58:45

Yes. Yes.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 58:47

That's fantastic. Uh, well, Dawn, it has been such a pleasure having you on the Spiraling Up Podcast. where can people learn more about you and where can they learn more about Vertex?

dawnhancock-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 58:59

thank you so much for having me. It was a delight as always to hang out with all of you. I would love to do it again at some point, but only if I win again, otherwise I'm not coming, of course. Um, so you can find me everywhere. LinkedIn at slash don Hancock. I am the one and only so you can find me there. And for Vertex, you can find us@vertexg.com. We are going to be changing that soon. But for now, that is where you can find us.

austinmcnair-2026-3-12__9-59-31-CFR 59:27

Excellent. Yeah. Well, we had a, we had a blast. and thank you to all of our listeners. If you enjoyed the episode, make sure you like the video. Subscribe to our channel. If you're listening, leave us a rating. Everything helps, propel our podcast forward. Keep getting great guests like Dawn to come on and speak with us. Play games with us. we're gonna keep it going this year. Thank you so much everyone, and we will see you on the next episode. Take care, everybody