How Inner Change Powers Business Success - With Gina Mollicone-Long Artwork

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How Inner Change Powers Business Success - With Gina Mollicone-Long

September 25, 2025 • Levi Lawrence and Colby Jardine

Colby and Levi sit down with Gina Mollicone-Long Author, speaker, coach, and founder of the Greatness Group, for an energizing conversation about personal transformation, belief systems, and the real meaning of success.

Gina shares her path from a high-achieving corporate career to launching multiple businesses rooted in systems thinking, personal development, and high-performance leadership. From stories about charging her first client triple her salary to reflections on parenting, family dynamics, and failure, Gina brings humor, honesty, and clarity to every topic.

Ginas Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ginamollicone/

Website: https://ginamollicone.com/

00:00 – Welcome
Colby shares how he met Gina and why this conversation needed to happen.

03:00 – Mind Meets Matter
Gina introduces her work and obsession with systems, performance, and transformation.

06:00 – ESP & Engineering
From asking for psychic school at 10 to earning an engineering degree—Gina shares her start.

11:00 – The Leap Out of Corporate
Leaving Molson wasn’t a plan—it was survival. Gina shares what it really felt like to quit.

15:00 – The $300/hr Moment
Why doubling her rate changed everything—and what it taught her about self-worth.

20:00 – People Reflect What You Expect
How your self-perception shapes how others respond to you.

23:00 – Systems > Symptoms
Gina unpacks how systems thinking applies to both business and personal growth.

27:00 – Adversity Unlocks Potential
From immigrant roots to inner resilience—how Gina’s family history shaped her mindset.

32:00 – Building The Greatness Group
A look behind the business: training, team building, coaching, and scalable delivery.

36:00 – Pandemic Pivots
How 2020 forced Gina and her husband to adapt every aspect of their business—and home.

41:00 – Discovering NLP by Accident
The unexpected way she stumbled into NLP—and how it transformed her approach.

45:00 – Updating the Program
Why holding onto outdated beliefs is like running Word 95 on a modern system.

51:00 – Clearing the Mental Clutter
How Gina helps people release limiting beliefs and make room for change.

56:00 – Growing Past Your Circle
What to do when your growth outpaces your environment—especially with family.

1:02:00 – Oxford & Neurotheology
Why she’s going all-in on a PhD—and how it connects science and spirit.

1:07:00 – Breaking Family Patterns
Why families function like systems—and how to shift deep-rooted dynamics.

1:14:00 – When Growth Feels Like Rejection
Levi reflects on how personal growth can be misunderstood by loved ones.

1:19:00 – Letting Go to Grow Up
Why rejection is often needed for independence—whether you’re a kid or a founder.

1:25:00 – The Gift of Failure
Reframing failure as fuel for transformation—not something to avoid.

1:30:00 – You vs. The Wall
A marathon story that unlocked a belief: you can do more than you think.

1:38:00 – The Filter Is the Problem
Why we only see a sliver of reality—and how to take control of your lens.

1:43:00 – Debugging Beliefs
How bad logic and flawed data create limiting beliefs—and how to shift them.

1:49:00 – If You Could Install One Belief…
The belief Gina would help people unlock—and why it’s always personal.

1:57:00 – Toboggan Tracks & Possibility
A metaphor about repetition, ruts, and what it takes to change direction.

2:00:00 – Wrap-Up
A record-breaking conversation closes with reflections

1:00:00

Welcome to Built to Last, the podcast whereentrepreneurs share real stories about thetriumphs and challenges of building enduring success.Hosted by Colby Jardine and Levi Lawrence.Hi, and welcome to the next episode of Built to Last.We're hoping to have really interestingconversations that divide a personal professional.You know, it's a messy thing and I don't believe in the word like balance.And I actually have never met our guest today, Gina, but Colby has, I believe.So we're not going to do a full intro likewe never do, but Colby, maybe give us a littlebit of context of how we got here today before we dive in.Sure, sure.Well, first of all, thank you for joining us, Gina.It's a pleasure.Well, thanks for having me.It's always an honor.I met Gina at the Entrepreneur Organization, EO Atlantic retreat.There we go.Sorry, it doesn't sound as good the other way.So we were at the EO Atlantic retreat inFox Harbor and my friend Martin Balcom, he washeading up that event and he wanted to bringin the best speakers and he was really talkingyou up and I was excited to see what you were going to talk about.And I had so many questions leaving your talkthat I was like, we're going to do a podcaston this and I'm going to get to selfishly ask all the questions I want.Oh, perfect.And my fiancé, my fiancé read your book, absolutely loved it.It came at a very timely, timely spot in her life and got a lot of value from it.So I'll let you introduce yourself and let's get going.Really?Okay.Here, let's just start with this.I help people intersect mind and matter, right?So my specialty is helping that spark thateverybody knows they have, which isn't material,come to life through their actual life.So I help people change faster and with lesseffort using ancient tools, modern tools andanything I can get my hands on because I'm a systemsaholic.So let's just leave it there and we'll jump off from there.Great.Systemsaholic, it sounds like you're more,from what I'm hearing, you're more focusedon the person.We're like in our profession, like we'rehuman centric, but we're working on the companiesand the organizations.Well, you know, it's again, I'm a systemsaholic.So I have an undergrad in engineering.I have a graduate degree in the philosophyof science and religion and I'm heading toOxford in the fall to do a PhD in neurotheology.So you know, what's up with that?Neurotheology.Yeah.And what I'm doing though, it makescomplete sense to me because science and religion,if we just use those giant terms, are systems, right?They're systemized ways of thinking andlooking at reality and trying to explain it.And everybody thinks they're separate.And in my reality, it's all the same.It's just different languages, different perspectives.And therefore it looks totally different.Well, people are no different.They look different.It seems like we're different people.You know, you got a meat suit, I got a meat suit.You're in Fredericton.I'm in Toronto.It feels different.But it's actually all the same and it's thesameness that makes us able to optimize becausethe machine is the same, right?So one to many.So you guys work with groups.I work with one.But I also work in groups and group dynamic is something that is easy to explain.So what I am is I look for what the system isinstead of what the, I don't know, 3D realitypresents and then the pattern emerges.So there's always a pattern always.How did you, how did you, like, did you fall into this interest?Like how did this, I was going to say thesame thing because I see like, if LinkedInis true, there's a little bit of like acorporate citizen and engineering education.And then there's self-help book.That's crazy.Yeah.Yeah.That's me in a nutshell.No.You know, when I was 10, I asked my parents for ESP school lessons for my birthday.And they all laughed at me.But I remember the, I remember asking, youknow, what do you want for your birthday turning10?It's kind of a big deal.I was like, Oh, I want to go to ESP school.How's that?Right?Like, I think I must have read about it ina book or I remember this book about twinsand psychic.And I don't know.I remember I read a lot as a kid and therewas the, and I just thought, Oh, I want toknow how to do that.So I want to go to, there must be an ESP school.There was not.Yet.Right.And so then, you know, whatever I kind of,as with anything in your life that gets buriedand you move on.And then I found myself, you know, I'm prettygood at math and science and it was the eighties.There was no internet.And so what's a girl to do?And especially a contrarian like me, butstudy something that she shouldn't study becauseyou know, not a lot of girls do it.So that was that.It was, you know, so that's how I picked engineering.I was good at math and science and I didn't want to be a chemistry teacher.Right?Like, I tried out for the Canadian chemistry team.I did not make it.And I didn't know the last one.I neither did I.But when I was a grade 13, my, my teacher encouraged me to try out.And I was like, oh, you mean I can go tothe Olympics for something like I'm on board.Right.So I went to the triode.It was at the University of Toronto.I'm from Windsor.And so, you know, there I was like, wow.Right.You know, as a Trinity College, you like, oh my God.And yeah, I didn't get past the first question.And I was the best chemistry student in Essex County.Right.So yeah.It was also interesting to note that I was one of a very few women.There were very few women at this particular endeavor.And you know, I just, I could tell, I was like, I don't belong here.I am out of my league.But so I went to study engineering and that was fine.Engineering, I'm not particularly, like people always say you're an engineer.How does this work?I have no idea.But I'm really good at cracking a system.So I figured out how to succeed in it.Right.And so I couldn't explain the, you know, Bernoulli principle anymore.Despite the fact that I'm a chemical engineer, it's sort of the foundation.But I could do really well in school becauseI could optimize the system of learning andsucceeding.Then I went to work for P&G because, well, I don't know what else do you do?I didn't think I was, I wasn't doing this on purpose.And when I started working, I mean, andit's the greatest education I ever got workingthere.But while I was working there again, I was like, I don't belong here.And so I lasted about three years, which was miraculous.And in hindsight, they were managing me perfectly.Like when I started to learn human systems, I was like.I can only point to my own experience ofthem knowing me better than I knew myself whenI was 20.And they managed three years out of me when I should have been there for about fiveminutes.Wow.And then then I went to a different, I wentto Molson to be the first brand manager woman,which was a whole other, you know, interesting experience.But what was shocking to me was it wasn't better.So the grass was in fact not greener.And so I didn't I didn't last.They didn't manage me as a person.So I didn't last very long, a couple more years.But I'm really grateful for all of that because I left.In order to leave to do something new thatyou didn't really plan to do, it has to beawful.It has to be worse to go backwards.So I'm so grateful that it was bad enough that I just like I'm out.And that's when I started my first business.But it wasn't based on any grand vision.It was really just running out the doorand people are like, well, what are you goingto do? And I'm like, I don't know, I'm going to probably teach businesses how to dowhat I was taught to do at P&G.Which turns out I probably should have started a coaching company at that pointbecause I'd be pretty pretty wealthy right now.But it wasn't a thing.There was no such thing as business coaching.And in the 1990s, coaching was for sport.But I held five Canadian coaching certifications by the age of 16, 17.So I already knew what I was going to do, but it wasn't a clear career yet.I was coaching gymnastics, diving, soccer, basketball, volleyball.I was refing in university.I made great money, men's basketball because it paid more than women's.So I already knew what I was going to do, but I just didn't know it was a thing.So there I was doing business consulting.I was coaching. I was coaching in the 1990s.But it wasn't a thing.So I'm always curious about the word leapmeans different things to different people.But that decision of, you know, you had a job, say, you know, say Molson.And then did you have the idea and started while you were there?You left and then OK, what the hell have I got to do?I if you can imagine someone leaping off a cliff and then going now, what do I do?Grabbing and then grabbing something on the way out.It felt like that because my grandfather legit 100 percent cried.When I quit, because they had come from the, you know, the Eastern Bloc,risked their lives with their three children.You know, imagine imagine, first of all, first of all, imagine being 27 and havingthree children under the age of six.And then imagine thinking, you know what, let's leave our super wealthy, super,you know, privileged life and get, you know, and get ourselves to Canadabecause we think it's that bad because it's going to be that much betterfor our family over there and then building a life and doing what you do,not speaking the language, whatever, whatever.And then your ungrateful, insane granddaughter, less than two generations, right?Just gets wins the golden ticket and then and then bails on it.So he cried 100 percent.I cried a lot, too, but his was for a different reason. Sure.So what's because a lot of people likehow do I word this?I talk to a lot of people who aren't necessarily in these peer groups where youcan have a little bit more real talk.Yeah. And they romanticize that leap and grit and the start.And and the the idea of that 20, 20 or 25 year overnight success.And don't realize the question.So because if you look online, like you have a lot of successand you have a lot of like optically optimized things.And I would just like, what was that first few years like?Like, what was that?Because I bet it wasn't a leap into a pad, the state's table.Like it's it was insane.Yeah. No, I always say to people in this and I may have said this, Colby.I can't remember. I talked like this sometimes.You know, everybody wants a caterpillar butterfly, caterpillar butterfly.But nobody's willing to recognize the caterpillar goes through complete100 percent destructive goo.See, so you have to.So the caterpillar liquefies.Before it can be rearranged into a butterfly.Now, I've never been in a cocoon, but I can only infer that that is uncomfortable.It's kind of like a chicken and an egg.I don't know.But based on my observation of nature, it's not always nonviolent.You know what I mean? So.So when I left, it was so bad.Now, imagine being in your 20s again.OK, or for those of you listening, maybe you are now.And so your brain's not even completely fully formed.And it's shit. That's it.It's victim shit. It's just shit.I can't do this anymore.Nobody understands me.I'm working too hard. I'm not getting paid enough.This is bullshit. You know, like it's.But in hindsight, that that rejection of the values of whatever was going on thereit's what gives you the courage to jump. Right.So I distinctly remember the day because I was bawling.There was snot involved.I was like, this is I can't do this anymore.All right. And I'm just going to quit.And my husband was like, quit.And I was like, really?He said, just quit. We'll be fine.Like, we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out.And I was like, OK.So I quit. And my boss, you know, like theywent and then. So what are you going to do?I don't know. And I remember going down to the librarybecause there's no Internet. OK, there is.But it's terrible. Like there's Internet, but it's it's not what it is today.So I went to the library to figure out how to start a business.And I started a sole proprietorship.What the hell these things were.And it was called Brighter Ideas.And I got a phone number and I and I went to a business like I knew peoplewho own businesses and I went and pitched.You know. It's coaching.It was coaching like all help you get your business plan shit together.And the first pitch I was doing, I'll never forget itbecause I had calculated my salary, given myself a raise, you know,and I was like, I don't know, like one hundred fifty bucks an hour or something.And so I was meeting with my girlfriend for a little pep talk before the pitch.And she was like, what are you going to charge?And I said, I said, 150 bucks an hour.She's like, oh, no, absolutely not. Double it.And I was like, are you on cocaine?Right. 300 bucks an hour.That's like triple my current salary.You know what I mean? Like whatever it was, she was like,a, you're not going to be working 40 hours a week.B, there's going to be time in between clients and C, you're worth it.You come from P and G.And I was like, all right. Sure.So I went into the thing and pitch, pitch, pitch.And the person's like, OK, and they're writing notes, you know, whatever.And she goes, OK, well, how much do you charge?And I was like.Three hundred dollars an hour.And she goes, OK, great.And like, are you in a contract right now or can you start on Monday?And I was like.Oh, no, I can start Monday.And I came home and she was like, OK, great, great.I'll get the paperwork together.And I was like, what the fuck just happened?Right. So I went home.My husband was like, what happened?I'm like, I got it.He's like, great. Why do you look so forlorn?And I was like, because she didn't even bat an eyelash.And he's like, oh, she the 150 was no problem.I'm like, no, I told her 300.She still didn't bat an eyelash.And now I'm wondering what I left on the table.Right. And so right that is not graceful.So it was an immediate lesson in your worth.So here's a quote.People will think about you, what you think they'll think about you.Underneath that one more time.Yeah, one more time.People will think about you, what you expect them to think about you.You're projecting it.They're picking it up. And so.You know, your worth is kind of arbitrary.How much is art worth?I don't know what someone will pay for it.Well, how much is coaching worth?Well, I don't know. I mean, what's Ted Lasso worth?You know, like, like, what's it worth?Well, it's worth.What people will pay to get what it's doing.Right. So yeah, I was trained at P&G.Now, I just thought it was a hard ass place to work that worked people hardand trained us like crazy and over prepared us for everythingand gave us responsibility way outside of our, you know, band.But in hindsight, it was a brilliant place.And when I started to say to people, you know, how do you measure it?They were like, measure what?I'm like, oh, my God. Right.I didn't know I knew things till I was out there going,people don't know anything. Right.And what's worse?They don't believe.So that's when I started to realize, oh, there's like a belief thing going on here.It's not just the numbers, right?Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.I know that, you know, I've helped a lot of small businessesback in the day kind of get going.But so I come from poor dairy farmersand I come from like chef in hospitality, food and beverageprofessional for 10 years, have a degree in whatever.But at the end of the day, when I started my first business,I had never really dealt with real money.And so the idea of that first three thousand dollar loan, that first eightthousand dollar, you know, that first week of making a couple thousand dollarsrevenue, the first time I raised investment was eighty thousand dollars.And and I was like burning everything to like so worried about the amounts.And in hindsight, like that business ended up failing eight years later.And I look back at a lot of the decisions where I just didn't understandand I was playing a different game and if I had just properly financedand understood money better and beliefs around money, a lot of beliefs aroundmoney, because I had never been exposed to people or businessesthat operated with money as a tool, right?As a constraint.And and it's just like a major belief.And like I have a tattoo on my leg that says there's no mission without margin.And it's like, like, you know, the only way to make better things happenis to make more money doing better things.And like all of those.That's actually on your leg. That's like a book.Well, no, the first one, the no mission without margins.I'm just kidding. Yeah.And it wraps around your ankle.Yeah, but you know, like hindsight is always 20 20.But you asked me, was it, you know,I make I make it up as I go along.People hate that.But but you know, it does come like whatI may lack in formal understanding of the things you just spoke about.Right. I don't know a lot about that. I never did.I went to the library to learn how to start a business.I surrounded myself with people who knew.And I always believed it would work outif I just paid attention to what the next step was.So that's a that's faith.But it wasn't I didn't believe in some guy sitting in a chairthat was going to like direct my life.What I believed in was my own ability to pay attentionand adapt to the circumstances, knowing that even if it wasn't the wayI planned it, I would figure out how to make it work.Right. And maybe that comes from having grandparents whododged a bullet or two,you know, and had to react in ways that I don't think I would haveexpected myself to be able to do in my 20s.But they had to deal with things that we couldn't even dream about.Can you imagine bribing a guard on a train to let you off between CzechSlovakia and Yugoslavia and Austria and not getting shot in the back?Like, you know,shame on you for not knowing how to finance a business properly.What the hell? Like, so so there's this in our DNA is like this,this potential, but it has to be activated.And the only thing that usually activates it is failure and stress.Right. I like I could curl one pound weightsfor the rest of my life. It's not going to build a single muscle fiber.Right. It's only until you rip.You know, when you actually learn what muscle building is,it's like muscle destroying and rebuilding. Yeah.Well, that big failure of that business, like there's no reasonI would be doing what I've been doing for the last 10 years without that.Right. Yeah.I wouldn't wish it upon anybody, but at the same time,those things are necessary.But OK, so we call them failures.And my first book was called The Secret of Successful Failing.And at one point I was saying, you know, why why do we act like failureas an F word? Right. Like, why do we have such an ab reaction to it?The word failure means you didn't get what you plan to get.So by that definition, my extremely illustriouscareer with with P&G and like my very importantcareer was a complete failure because it failed to be the thing that I did.It failed. It wasn't bad.But it was a failure and it was such a good collage.It was like the best failure ever so that I could havethe guts to do the next thing.Is that really a failure?But it was a failure.I mean, absolute disaster in in in those years for the for the longest time.After those years, I was like, what a waste of years.You know, I didn't really appreciate it for a while. But, yeah,mother or what is it? Necessity, necessity is the mother of invention.So I didn't have a choice.So I had to put myself out there because I didn't feel comfortabletrying to live off my husband's paltry little salary at the time.We were in our 20s. It was ridiculous. Yeah.So knowing what you know now, do you do you everhow do you assess your own beliefs on a regular basis?I don't know what that means.So do you because, you know, we may create new habits.Life may change.How do you check in with yourself to like analyze like, oh, is this a new beliefthat I have? Oh, yeah.So here is very easy.So and you can you can borrow this if you want.So just look in your life and look where it's on fire.And shit is raining down from the sky.And that's generally a place where your beliefs and your operating systemisn't working anymore. No, seriously.So like, you know, I always maybe I did this in the audience.I don't know. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don't.It's like, look, think about putting on your own jeans.Right. And most people put on their own jeans.And so I'll go pick someone from the audience.I'll go, did you put on your own jeans today?Yeah. OK. What leg did you put in first?Like what? I'm like left or right.They're like, I don't know. My right, I guess.I go, you put your right leg in every day first.Why do you think you do that?They're like, I don't know, because I'm right handed.No, it's because the person who dressed you,you tried to put your left leg in one day and they snuck your right legbecause they were like, no, give me this leg.They're ready for the right leg, not the left leg.And so that's how you ended up being a right legged pants putter on her.And and the reason I'm using this example is because if you look at the habitsin your life, they're kind of all you always brush teeth.You always do this because and they work.And so as long as they work, we don't bother to change them.It's only when we realize they're not working.So there I was, you know, right leg pants putter on her my whole life.And then I sprained my left foot playing volleyball in universities.Like my left ankle just destroyed it.Crutches in the middle of winter in Toronto was disaster.And I couldn't put my pants on because I'd only ever done it one way.And so I had to learn it's so ridiculous how to do it standing on the other leg.Well, I'm pleased to announce that 40 years later or whatever,I can put my pants on and either leg depends on the mood of the day.But the only reason I ever even attacked that pattern is because it was a disaster.When I couldn't do it.And so wherever you have disaster in your life, sure.And I've done it.You can lie on the ground.Oh, why is this happening to me?Or you can go something in this program is old and doesn't work in the environmentthat I'm in or the goals that I've set for myself.Michael Beckwith says humans change for two reasons.Pain pushes until vision pulls.Beautiful. Yeah, I know.So I live like that.And so my life's a disaster sometimes.People are like, Oh, you must have a perfect life.I'm like, you don't understand what I teach if you think I have a perfect life.Right. Right.And tell me a little bit about when you got started with this,working on beliefs like what, what was that?What was that first, you know, a few clients like or companies that you workedwith like what, how did you start to work on that with people?Like, how did you start to piece it together so it could be delivered?See, this is where it goes further back.It goes to back to like my.So when I was a teenager, I was already doing it.I do you know, you are talking to a lot of people who are like,I'm to the rookie lifeguard of the year from Windsor, Ontario,who won an award for teaching methods to get any kid to dive.That that was my I could teach any kidwhether they could swim or not to dive in one summer.And I was 17.Now, I was I mean, seriously, we could be having the entire call about that.Now, why am I not a teacher or a lifeguard?Well, because that's not a real job.I swear to God.And so when I was going to university, they're like, well,you can't be a lifeguard forever.And I was like, well, what am I supposed to do?And they're like, well, you know, it doesn't pay very well.And my mom worked at Chrysler.And I was like, well, if I work in the factory,I can make like three times the amount of money that I made as a lifeguard.And so I did that.So I, you know, I was also the star of Flashdance.So I welded cars for two summers.Well, it's a great way to know what you don't want to do.And and then when I got into university, well, thatI couldn't go be a lifeguard.So now what do I do?I'm in the near the top of my class.I'm in the student council, everything, whatever.It's just who I am.Still teaching people how to do stuff, by the way.What did I say? Five coaching certifications.I was tutoring in university.I was tutoring high school students.And so then there were job interviews.This was this was true.This is a true story.Fourth year, I went to Fort Saskatchewan,Alberta to interview to be a chemical engineer,like a full on oil chemical engineer.I went back to Toronto.I changed my suitcase.I flew to New York City to be an investment banker.I didn't even know what that was.I didn't I was an engineer.I didn't even know what it meant.And I was in the final round of interviews for a very big investment bank.Then I came back to Toronto and then I had an interview with P&G.This was in three days.And so my professors were like, what do you want to be?I'm like, I don't even know what half these things are.So that's how I ended up at P&G.It was like the three the three little bears.What do you call it? The Goldilocks?Like it was like, no, two, two, not enough, too much.Just right.And that's how I ended up there.And.That was a real job, but look where I ended up.I ended up doing what I did when I was 14, 15.So I already knew and I have this tool.I use with my private clients because I don't just work with private.In fact, I don't work with very many private individuals.But I have this tool and the tool is about finding your purpose and drive.And one of the things we do is we go back and we reexamine the patterns of life.Right. So what were you doing when it was awesome?When you were seven, when it was awesome, what were you doing?Well, I was organizing skating showcasesbecause we had a really big yard and my dad used to make us an ice rink.And my friends were really good skaters.So we would do a skating showcase so they could showcase their skating.And we would raise money for Ronald McDonald House.And I was eight.So it's always the sort of same greatness.You know, shine.It just I didn't know was a thing.And even when I started, I didn't know was a thing.I didn't even know what the thing was.And then I was doing OK doing this thing.I didn't know what it was because it didn't have a name.And then my husband was a stockbroker at the time.And he was like, looks like you're having a lot of fun.Whenever. So he kind of got the itch.So he wrote.This business plan that was like 25 pages long.And it was like everything that you were talking about,like about like thinking of everything in her financing.It was going to be corporate leadership development in the wilderness,canoeing and kayaking, because that was his love from childhood.But it was also like he was a corporate guy andunbelievable. And it was really good.And then I was like, this is great.And he sold his book and he was like, let's do it.So he leaped as well.And.It's been.Twenty six years, almost twenty seven years since he wrote that business plan.We've never delivered the program.And he never.And he quit his entire job for the plan that he madethat we never executed because the first time we pitched it was to the body shopCanada and they loved us, but they they didn't want to give us their entirecompany for three days.So they're like, we'll give you our whole company,but you got to chop it up and you got to figure out how to deliver all thesedeliverables without going out into the wilderness for three days and will buyeverything you have and everything.I mean, literally they wrote.We were like, oh, my God.And so we started out with this humongous,ridiculous contract to do everything leadership with this company.OK, everything.We did these leadership games and I did these keynote speeches and we worked withindividuals.And that that basically bankrolled us for a while.And then the next pitch was to a company who really admired the body shop.And they were like, oh, this is so great.Tell me about your clients.And we said, well, our biggest client is the body shop.Was our only client.I wasn't lying.Wrong.OK, so then they hired us because they really admired the remember at the time,this is still in the late 90s, early 2000s.The body shop was really known for its culture, which was not a thing.Just remember, culture wasn't really a thing yet.So body shop had insane things like daycare.And so they were really known for theirgroundbreaking ideas like flexible working hours for parents.Right.So we were in and we were there.We were their leadership trainers.So they so then the next company and then then we had to and then, you know,so then that kind of snowballed and then things, whatever.So we've never we keep that business plan as a reminder that to be an entrepreneurmeans to respond to the environment, not to foreshore will and ideas upon yourunwilling customers. Interesting.So I don't actually know and I probably could do the research or find out,but you're here.I don't actually know like what you built is aorganization or is the power of like your own trusted advisor,saddest personality, able to deliver like, like have you made those investments inwhat scale and structure look like at any point?So yes and no.So we have a company we call it the Greatness Group.That was the safest name because then that can be anything.Sounds great.And it's built on and it's built on our value, which is greatness.Right. So to reveal greatness is sort of why we get out of bed in the morning,why anybody works for us.And there are three rough pillars and they've kind of been the same roughpillars for about15, 17 years.So the majority of the time.So and it's kind of a continuum.So there's Gina.She writes books. She does talks.She's I'm a tube.I don't take credit for any of this.My job is to clear out the debris inside the tube so the information can getthrough me and out to other people.So I do that through books and speaking and I work with individual privateclients, curating private like breakthroughs for one on one people.Right. It's like engineering.And then there's the complete opposite end of that, which is a totally commodity,you know, team building.Right. So corporate team building.We do corporate scavenger hunts.It's called scavenger hunt anywhere.No one does more than than us in the entire planet.I have never I haven't led a scavenger hunt since 19 since I was pregnant.So 2000.So it's been a while.But but we do them and my husband runsthat business that you would call a business that has like investments in salesand people and staff.And it's got a great story.Maybe you should interview him.And then in the middle, we have what we call greatness.You as in you learning you you the you of university.And so what happens there is we take our expertise in sort of the group.Team building understanding of human groupbehavior and we take the sort of expertise of the individual.Performance and we marry them in a training platform.And so in this training platform, we run both open courses.So like you register and come one seat at a time.And we also do corporate trainingmodules that are either private or, you know, what do you call those things?Cohort kind of stuff.And it just depends on what they want to learn.Right. And so we curated.We also have boxed courses and sometimesparts of our business are bigger than others.And that was no more apparent than 2020, 2021 and 2022.So the entire business was flattened in one day.But certain elements that I just explained emerged faster than others.So the scavenger hunts, it's been what, five years now?The scavenger hunts are just coming back to steam.Yeah, no doubt.So they got flattened.So then Andrew worked more on my stuff because he's like,people want this more right now.So, you know, so scale.I don't know. It's hard to say, really.Well, to be honest, it's great because I've worked with a lot of people who arelike the author, the influencer, the trusted adviser, the speaker as professions.And then like they don't haveany of the infrastructure around them, maybe a virtual assistant or an assistantrole or an agent.But that's like, and I'm again, I used to do a lot of public speaking to the TEDxtalk and I always wanted to write.And then I was like, I don't really want to havea thing that if I don't get up and want to do it again, it stops.Exactly.And and I so I and but I've talked to a lot of people like that.You kind of sell yourself.Yes. You've built the systems, which is the.I've said why I'm an engineer.I mean, in those early days when we shared an office that was tiny,we got a call and I heard Andrew talking to the person on the call and it was like,oh, yeah, no, we don't really do scavenger hunts.And I was like, we do anything right now.Right. So I was like whipping paper at his head.And he's like, and he was like.And I was like, and so he goes, but you know what?Let me throw something together and I'll get back to you tomorrow.And he hangs like, what the hell are you doing?We don't do scavenger hunts.I'm like, how hard can it be?We're sitting in the office.Right. Like my parents used to do this thing in Windsor called the challenge cup.And it's kind of like and then I was like the engineer.I was like, I'm pretty sure we could do it and replicate it easily.And he was like, OK, so we threw togetherthis proposal and pitched it to this client.They rejected it.But we spent a lot of time on this proposal of like how it would work.And they rejected it.But then he turned to me and said, I think I can sell this.All right.So funny because so Colby and I didn'tfound companies at the same time we merged later on like three years ago.And I don't know if you I don't think you would have participated in thesebut in the twenty, twenty, twenty one years, a lot of what we did was we helpedcompanies use the Internet effectively or use technology.Sure.And during covid that we were doing a lot of different stuff, but it shifted veryquickly to help turn their in-person contact points online.Trade shows, AGM's, events, conferences.How to use you.Although nobody wanted to.We had a number of people and I actually three times in a rowdid large team building and conferences with your membership.And I built the online scavenger hunt experience just from like Google searches.And so it was like it was really rough because it was like a last minute build.But it was an Excel sheet with all the tasks and it was shared.So every group had their own Excel sheet and somebody else was joined in to score.But they had to use the Internet.So they had to like they had to edit an image.Yeah.And they had to go find a specificgeography place on the planet and take a screenshot.I think there was all this like really interesting.Well, we do that all the time.But we have an app.Yeah. Well, I made it up on the go.But it was like fake it to you.Well, that's what we did.And the problem became because it's teambuilding after the first sort of, you know,two weeks to flatten the curve turned into six months.Then it was really hard to pitch, hey, you're online all day every day.Do you want to also do team building online every day?Like then people were like, no.And so I said, just let it die because I got more calls to do private breakthrough.So I try to limit the number of private breakthroughs that I designed because theytake a lot of time and then I can't do anything else.And so I try to keep it to like a dozen a year.It's just a random number I picked a long time ago.And it was like a waterfall of requests because in a crisis, right, one of thethings that I can help people do is get out of the story of the crisis because acrisis in my model of reality is an opportunity for rapid, rapid step change.OK, so the smart ones.And I cannot believe like if I think back to what we were doing, given theconstraints of where we were living.I don't know.So it saved us and a number of things saved us.You know, years ago I took it so I just kind of fell into things as they went.So I wrote a book, Successful Failing and the Secret of SuccessfulFailing and somebody read it and you were talking about what did you say?You didn't say ten thousand hours.You said twenty five years.But it's you know, when you're doing yourten thousand hours, it's not so glamorous.So I'm speaking in a church basement somewhere on this book.And this woman comes up to me and goes, you've written a really good book aboutNLP. And I was like, what?She said, your book, it's about NLP.I'm like, what the hell is NLP?And she said, neuro linguistic programming.I said, I know what that is.So come on.She said, Tony Robbins.I'm like, I know who he is, but not really.Like, I'm not familiar with what NLP is.She goes, give me a break.Are you going to pretend you invented NLP like everybody else does and rebrand it?And I was like, again,I've never heard of it.So Colby, to answer your question, that was a sign.So I went home and googled it and ended up in a classroom very quickly thereafter.And I sat there for about 15 minutes and went, oh, my God.Like, it's it's just a systematic way ofapproaching the construct of the mind, which I had written about, butbecause I'm an engineer.Yeah.OK, and so then I and I never intended to do more than get that info and use it.Right. But but, you know, Ted Jameswas a brilliant man and he was my teacher for a long time.And he was a brilliant man.He delivered excellent content and he had a really good way ofknowing how to provide the value that made me want to keep going.Right. So there was a point where he waspitching some master trainer for I had no interest in teaching at that level.But however he positioned it, it was like, well, you can buy this, which I wanted,or you can do this master trainer program and I'll give you this for free.And I was like, well,it's in price.So why wouldn't I just do so?I did the master trainer program and then I enjoyed it.So I finished it and, you know, whatever.I taught a few courses here and there and it was fun to be able to say you teachthis and teach coaching and teach hypnosis and shit.And then 2020 happened.OK, and our entire business went like, like I'm talkingthe number of contracts alone that were canceled was like half a million dollars.Right. Just like in one day it was it was just unbelievable.We looked at each other and I was like, nope.I mean, I don't I do not accept this reality.So we turned out we deleted all our socialmedia accounts, everybody in our family and my kids were in high school ish.One was in high school.One was going into university, deleted all social media, wrote all over our windowson quotes that inspired us had happy hour, which was the hour of happiness.And so it was like you had to have a moosebush and obviously non-alcoholic cocktail, like mocktail and a game and whatever.We did this every day.It was no and you had to walk the dog together.And we just it was not negotiable.And I was like, we are not participating in this.We are doing this.And about three weeks into that, I get a call out of the blue from a coachingorganization that I never startedand they said, our coaches are still working, but they're not traveling.So they have all this time and I want to invest all their fees in upskilling them.Could you teach, you know, 60, 75 coaches online?NLP. And I was like, 100%100% hung up the phone and then I said, well, we got to figure out how to do.Our course in Zoom, right?And in February of 2020,and this is, you know,I was at an EO thing in New York and this guy said to me, you've got to put thisstuff online, you know, this isridiculous, like, you know, and I was like, it can'tbe done, man, you cannot teach NLP online.You need to be there face to face with the person.And then six weeks later, I'm like, 100%.No problem. And so we did.We figured it out because we have.It's just a new mission.Right. And we delivered this course.We train these coaches.They all learned it and it saved our lives.Literally.And then we did a whole online platform.And then after a while I was like, I can't do this like this anymore.Right. Because I don't I don't like teaching online.Funny, it's called NLP.Yeah.Neural Linguistic Programming.It's just a model.It's just a model of the millions of models that I teach.So I don't think I've ever shared this, at least on the podcast.But I started working with a therapist on80D,found a video online thatjust like hit me viscerally.Like I never got diagnosed and all that kind of stuff.But I had a lot of the symptoms.The obvious ones anyway.And I started working with this therapist onand I didn't know what executive function was.I didn't understand. I'd never heard.Sure.And so she was like asking me to describemy day and and and how I do things and whyI do things a certain way. And she kind of stopped me and she goes,you know, you've kind of figured out executive function without knowing what it is.And she walked me through because she was actually taking a course on executivefunction at the same time working with me and she read off.You know, I obviously created it with duct tape and bubblegum,but I had to create something and I didn't even realize I did it.And and then from there on, I'm like, OK, I need to dive into this.But it's just ended up in it.Yeah. Yeah.Yeah, it's fascinating and also very empowering to know that.Well, you were you were functioning.With what you had.Yeah. Right.You were pretty good at like.Fashioning, you know, MacGyver, like we're we're good at it.And but unless we if we don't need it, we don't get good at like we don't get good.So what what what causes you to have to do that adversity?Yeah, survival.Right. Like like there's an amazing videoon the Internet that I use in my talks sometimes of a guy called Nick Vojacic.I don't know if you know who he is.He's an Australian man. He has no arms and no legs.Oh, yes. And, you know,he he leads a better life than most people that I know that have arms and legs.Right. He's certainly a better golfer than I am.And like and he's a better diver than I am.And I taught diving and and so but but but he had to because it was eitherthat or suffer 80 years or whatever, 100 years of whatever.And so when you hear him talk, he's like,it should be impossible for me to do this if I fall down.But it's not why because I never gave up.That's his general story.And he usually speaks to kids and usually a lot in Australia.And and like, holy crap.Talk about a purpose.So so when you haveto overcome the adversity, you think it's nothing because it's just you.It's like, this is just my life.I'm not doing anything special.But what you don't realize is that particular system that you've createdis either directly helpful to somebody in your same situation or generally helpfulin its design, your approach or your attitude or whatever.But we don't we don't think of that.So I didn't think of my I don't think of myself as anything until someone says,I can't believe you do it like that. I've never even thought of it.I'm like.What?Right. So when I do a breakthrough with somebody,really, what I'm doing is is deconstructing how theyconstruct reality, because if you see above my head on the chalkboard,you see the hundred and twenty six, this is you've seen this on my on my talkbecause it's a cornerstone of every talk I give, which is reality,the quantum field, reality, the field, this, whatever you want to call it,the universe, it's comprised of millions, billions,possibly trillions of bits of random information.Right. In 1954, Carl Pribim and his clan, they measured two million bits ofyou know, stimuli.But the brain can't process it.We can't take in all the information.So we we take it in through our five senses,but the capacity is about one hundred and twenty six bits per second.So right out of the gate, you're looking at a data loss of ninety nine point ninenine four percent of all that's possible before you even open your eyes.Right. Because so in order for your brain to do itsexecutive functioning or in order for your body to move through space,it can only organize the information that it can handle.So it takes one hundred and twenty six bits and then it does shit with them and youmove around and you do your things and you go to work and you introduce yourselfor whatever you do.And then you act like that's a real constraint.No, it was arbitrary.But what's real is the minute it gets inside your mind, the minute you didget rid of the rest of the information, that's all you can work with.That's it.So when I learned this fact, I was like,like,so if you could change the information you brought in, you could literally doanything.So then I just that my entire life has been about determining how we changehow we process information.And and it's and there's no sure some of medical,some of our cutting edge science is the answer.But hey, some of the answer is hidden in some ancient scriptures, too.And that's why I do both because I'm not the first person to realize this.I may be the first person to to language it the way I language it.But it's been known that we are a.There's a there's a massive data loss.The minute it gets into our meat suit and then that constrains us.So we're not the constraint, but the filtering is the constraint.Well, I'm in charge of the filter.So this is great news.So when I do a breakthrough with someone, all I do is I have a systematic way ofdeducing what information they're using, I just change it and I don't change it bymuch.And reality changes like that's why it's called a breakthrough because it's like,can you give me an example of changing information?Well, so, for example,it's very practical.So there are three components of the mind, right, mental, emotional and physical,like physiological, physiological.So beliefs, right, which you think are thoughts and they are.But they're but their cost to you is the negative emotions or the limiting factorthat goes with them. So, you know, some belief like I can't do it because I'm awoman, I can't do it because I'm a whatever, I'm poor, whatever, like just likethat. I'm not good enough.That's generalized to the basic ones.I'm not good enough. I won't be loved because that everybody has those.Right.So the more attention you give to that as being true, the more it lives inside yourbody as like a gate check.Right. So, no, you can't if you believe this, you can't believe that.It's not you can't do both.So I have techniques that I use that eliminate generalized negative emotions.So a lot of times we generalize and ournegative emotions are patterns, they're patterns of non-learning.Right.So I have techniques that allow us to resolve that.And I don't just mean metaphorically, I mean neurologically.And I have techniques to resolve limiting beliefs.Well, once you get rid of negative emotions and limiting beliefs,then what you need to do is just clean up any otherbullshit programming that's not working.And then you've got like a clean garden bed finally.And then you plant.So I also am trained in techniques that, you know, like hypnosis and things likethat. So now you can plant the seeds and nowthey'll grow unimpeded because the garbage that was in the way isn'tpreventing them from growing.And so rapid results ensue because your mind creates reality.So if I remove the belief.I'm not good enough or smart enough.What would be possible?And I don't remove it. You remove it.I just walk you through the techniques.But if you no longer had that belief, what would be possible?And so how would you know?How do I know which belief to work on?Well, where's your life blowing up?Because that's generally where the belief is old.Right. And I always like to normalize thispart when I say this to people, because when you created the programs that you'recurrently running, they were brilliant when you were six and five and threeand two and one and four and four fourteen at the time.They were exactly what you said.Executive function.They were brilliant for the circumstances.You were like, you figured out how to get out of there intact.But it's not appropriate 30 years later to be using the same program to respond to.You know, it'd be like when I worked at P&G,the Internet and computers were were just becoming tools.And, you know, so remember when office like Microsoft will come out withMicrosoft 98 or whatever and be like big launch party and, you know,people would line up to buy software and but I remember because P&G, you know,our IT guys were were kind of on the ball and so they would always get it.And then they would send us things to be cocky assholes.And I did a Word document and I couldn't open it in 1995.I could you know, if I didn't have Windows 95, I was running the old shit.I couldn't open the stupid document.OK, so the solution.So there's the problem.The problem is I can't open the document.So Gina, where's your problem right there?OK, what's the solution?Blame the guy who sent it.OK, that's what most people do.Right. Or blame the company or throw thecomputer out the window or turn it off and on 100 times.No, the solution is to go down to the store and buy a new program.Well, which program?CorelDRAW? No.Go buy Microsoft 95 because that's what you need to open that guy's thing.OK, so then I run it.Well, my life changes.I get 95. Wow.It is the best cutting edge program of the day.Now, can you imagine if I said to you right now, because of that experience,guys, I still use Microsoft Office 95.Because bar none.It is the best.Right.Well, that's what people are doing with their programs.Well, I can attest to that because you'reactually refreshing my memory on why I evenwent down the rabbit hole of researching ADD.And it was because I think I may have even said this to you,Levi, I felt like whatever I was doing today wouldn't help me any further fromwhere I want to go as a person and working with others.And that was like extraordinarily frustrating because I didn't know where to look.Totally. It was just a YouTube rabbit holethat brought me to this video of a doctorspeaking at a conference that just clicked.Actually, that was in December.I saw you speak in October, which is interesting.No, it's not interesting. It is interesting.But what you're getting is as you start to rearrange what your filters arefiltering, the information that's been there the whole time, it's been there.It didn't just appear right.It was there the whole time.But it's like a radio.Like, I always try to take this to people and go, look,you guys are hopefully.Young enough to remember radios.Right. So like I remember Windows 95.Right. OK, good.So there you are.10 years old with the perfect.So there you are with the radio trying to get the perfect,especially if it was an analog dial, right?And you try to try to get it right there,even though it was it was ninety two pointthree, it wasn't exactly ninety two point three.It was like whatever.And you're running around your house with the antenna.So there you are.And you get it.And the music comes through perfectly.Well, the music was there the whole time.But the device needed to get lined up to that particular music.So now if you then are on, I don't know, let's call ita classical music station, but then, you know, that's your way.Your mom said it or whatever.And then you really wanted to listen to some hard rock.If you walk in and turn on the radio and is playing classical music,this is what people do. They go, why is this playing hard rock?I don't understand. I'm a good person.Well, what's the what's you got to put it on the hard rock station?Well, what's that? I don't know.You got to find it.OK, let's say it's one hundred and two point one.OK, so you go to one hundred and two point one and then you hit it exactly.And, you know, there's ACDC.Well, it was there the whole time.Radios don't sit there and wait.Somebody just tuned in, start broadcasting.Like, that's not how it works.They're constantly broadcasting the information.And the device enables you to bring the information into reality.Well, OK, that's a system.I just go, your meat suits a device.Your device, you're an electromagnetic device.You filter information, you receive it and you send it.It's all there.You get what you're looking for.If you don't like what you're looking at, look elsewhere.This might be a bit of an oddthis might be a bit of an odd way to describe this.But I have this fear.I guess people call it FOMO fear of missing out.Let's not call it like, you know, somebody's vacation and wherever.I'm I'm fearful, like similar to you mightbe walking through the forest and there'syou know, an animal right there and you would have never known you walked by it.That that is the, you know, the example of information that I'm so close to,but walk by and miss that click.It's just this constant fear that Ifelt something sitting right in front of me and I and I just missed it.It is always andso that's like important to know.I would say that the solution to that is to just be present.What the hell does that mean?You know, people say that shit all the time.Well, if you'reburdened by negative emotions and these limiting beliefs that come from 95.Then you're not living in the moment, you're living in the past.And if you're just constantly thinking about your next month, your next goal,your whatever, you're not living in the moment, you're living in the future.And neither of those places exist.The only time you have is what's ever happened to you right now.And I have these like I have one in my desk, I have these cards that thisbrilliant marketing company made for meand I might have given you one at some point.I didn't get that.I got a book because I use I usually like right on.They're like just cards, right?And they have different quotes on them.And this one says the answers that we seek are often right in front of us.But another one of the quotes of minethat she threw on there was pay attention to what gets your attention.And because it's getting your attention,because it's based on your desires and values and whatever, and it doesn't get myattention. It gets yours.And so if you do that, you probably won't miss the bunny in the forest.Right. You know what I mean?But like, you know, would you be sad if you missed a badger in the forest?Would you be sad if you missed a rattlesnake in the forest?Like, I don't know if I mind.You find out afterwards there was like a killer whatever in the forest.Really? I've got ignorance is blips.That's OK.Yeah.Yeah. But, you know, fear of missing out.That's that that's a I mean, I don't I don't know that fear isa particularly productive emotion, butthat's a greatway to ensure that you're constantly living and not not living.Hmm.Yeah, I'm curious whatwhat made you decide around the PhD that's coming up, you mentioned earlier.And I guess for me, is it is it the exploration, discovery,trying something new and expanding growth, et cetera?Or is there an intentional goal?Sowhen I did my master, I'm a lifelong learner and that's all I do.I have I have drawers full of books, I have bookshelves full of books.I'm a reader, a learner in information.So you have a fear of missing out.I have a fear of not getting all to all two million billion,trillion bits of information.Sowhen I did a master's in philosophy,a science and religion, I just wanted to see if I could argueat the level of academia for the things that I thought werereal, true, whatever.And I think, OK, I was pretty good at it.I did that in Edinburgh in Scotland.And then when I was graduating,that was amazing, it was just an amazing experience.And so on the way back, we were driving back to London and we stopped in Oxfordfor the day and and I'm a library, a holic.OK, so there's a library in Oxford called the Bodleian Library.If anybody's listening, that's like the library of the world.And so I wanted to go see it.I just want to be in it.I want to go in this really, really old library of really, really ancient learning.And I got there only to discovery.I had to have tickets and all this crap.And I was like, oh, man.Right. And so then I got a ticket for like the outer vestibule and I was tryingto get into the library and and she's like, no, we don't have any more ticketsfor the library. I'm like, come on, somebody like you.Nope. And so then I've tried to go to the to the security guard at the library.And he's like, I'm like, I'm a student at Edinburgh.I have a like I have a card.He's like, no problem.Just go tomorrow and get a reading card and you can go and library.I'm like, I'm flying home tomorrow.So this ridiculous library thing.And then I and then we were standing thereand I said to Andrew, I'm getting into thislibrary. And he's like, how I have no idea.OK, and so all of a sudden with bat ear hearing, I hear and maybe it wasthe acoustics of this hall.I hear like words likeno show, you know, I don't know, two people.I just hear like snippets of like so I go running across the room.Did somebody not show up?Did somebody not show for a tour?They're like, yeah, but the tour is already left.I'll go, please. I'll pay whatever.I'll pay triple. I'll pay.Please. I want I really.And the guy was like, OK, you've been here like four times and you clearly reallywant to go. I'll take you to the tour myself.You don't have to pay. It's fine.It's already been paid for.So so then we Andrew and I, we go through and the security guard goes.What the hell? And I go, oh, come on, man,this can't be the first time you've seen magic at the Bodleian Library like thisplace is invented this shit.We get up to this tour and.It's just like my head's exploding and the woman giving the tour is justan amazing character and and there are books in there that are chained to the wall,chained because they're so old, they're more valuable than art.And I just said to Andrew, I have to go here.Like I have to I have to go here.And he was like, OK.And so then this November, I was like, all right, well, let me throw togethera proposal and see what happens. Right.So so this is the continuation of challenging your your beliefs.Well, I mean, I'm going to unite science and religion again at the placeat the pinnacle place of academia, if you will, where it probably be the hardest.Institute like there will be the there will be people there that won't be soexcited about what I'm doing.And I'm just going to go and learn.And I don't there's a lot of shit I don't know.So I'm going to learn a lot.And then what am I going to do with it?Probably just come out really pretentiousin my knowledge of the intersection of science and science and religion.But what I'll do is I'll use it for good, you know,helping people unlock the divine code, if you will, inside of them, hopefully.I have I have two two different avenues that I want to go.I want to go down both equally.I'm trying to pick which one.I'll go with the one that's more on topic to what you just said.How does religion play into your life these days?Well, so religion is a system, usually adogmatic system that makes people want to crawl under their bed.Religion is the system ization of spirituality, if you will.And so not all systems get executed well, as you know.So I'm not a particularly religious person.That being said, I'm a very learned person.And I understand a lot of the systems, but I could practice any of them and I'm notattached to any of them. Does that make any sense?Because for me, it's not about the the values level that says it's like someguy telling us what to do, but I I also study at the esoteric level.A lot of these systems, some of the allegorical,metaphorical and hidden occult meanings behind some of the stuff that is written.So I'm fascinated by all of it.But I was at a party in London recently and the guy said to me, so do you believein God? And I said, well, what do you mean when you ask that question?He said, what do you mean? What do I mean?I said, well, what's your definition of God?Because before I tell you if I believein it, I have to know what you are asking me.And he said, what do you mean? It's God.Do you believe in God? And I was like, no, no, no.Are you talking to some guy sitting in a big judge's chair dispensing judgment?Probably not.He's like, yeah, I'm a recovering Roman Catholic.I don't believe in God.Oh, fair enough.I mean, not the only person.I said, but what if God wasn't a guy?And they're like, what?I'm like, what if God?And I said, what if what if?And this is not true.And I don't believe this just so I was just trying to be a shit disturber.I said, but what if God is like a super organized,highly complex system of information that's figured out how to regenerate itselfand make little baby versions of itself that become conscious?What if that's God? He's like, what?I was like, what is like a complex webof numbers that we don't even understand the complexity of the information system?But what if it's like, I don't know, just like a giant mass of algorithm?Could that be God? And he was like.Well, that's not God.I said, well, how do you know? Nobody knows.But if it is, could you believe in it?And he was like, maybe.Great.And I don't believe that I just made that up on the spot,but I thought it was pretty cleverand it might have been the champagne could have been the PIMS, butI wasn't I was more just trying to.To say like.I don't know if there if I mean.If you subscribe to the many worlds theory, then then anything's possible,but not plausible.Yeah. Right.So I don't know.I think I'm going into this.I don't know jack shit.And I think that's going to be to my advantage.And I'm not doing it for any reason.That's also going to be to my advantage because I have nothing to lose.Right. Yeah.Good point. Yeah.You get 100 percenting MERS in this next.Like you're you're not going to like do it part time or continue into work.So I'm doing it full time, but I will continue to speakand I will continue to take private clientsand I will continue to teach some courses because the the courses,the semesters at Oxford are only eightweeks and then there's big breaks in between.So I can still work.Like, yeah, I'm speaking at EO.What the hell is the acronym?APAC? No, that was in February.Mepa.And it's like two days before I start, of course, like, of course, it is.It's not next week when I have lots of time.It's two days before I start.Right. Yeah.So I'm going to keep doing that kind of stuff because I like it.But I'm going to immerse myself fully.I'm not growing my business.I'm not scaling my I'm not doing any of that.I'm excited for you.I am. Come visit.Well, I have friends that just moved to the Oxford area that have beenworking for the American Embassy.Oh, cool.They got placed there for the next three years and they're just they'rebegging for us to go over. So we were going to.I smell foreign retreat personally.Yeah, yeah, yeah, honestly, I know it like it's Kane is Kane is my fiance.She it's her dream to go tour around England.And so I think we're going to plan for that in the fall.Oh, well, I mean, if you're intoweird shit, I mean, England is the hotbed of ancient.Magic, for lack of a better word, and I'm right into that.Remember, at 10 years old, I asked for ESP lessons.Solike it's weird that I never became a magician, you know, like like a bunny outof the hat sort of like as a kid, because I was so into it.Your career took really could have taken a different turn.Right.I'm sorry, I have another question.I'm going to keep going.Go for it.OK, so we've worked with all sorts of companies and sometimesthere's a story, an example that's common with family businesses.Let's say thethe father or mother or both are are selling the business or passing thebusiness down to their kid and they still see them as children.Yes.They're, you know, they're still thinking of them as like 14 years old or whateverit might be, immature.And no matter if they've grown as a person or not, I'm going.Yes. Yes.The family is family.Like I often see like I've experienced this myself where I can choose who I hangaround with outside of family.And as I grew up, like my friends changed and I still have some some great oldfriends. But, you know, I'm really conscious about making those choices.And with with family, there's the example of the business owner passing thebusiness down to the kids and their perception of them changing.And how do you bring them along with your learning journey?But just from a family perspective, if you're growing and people see you acertain way, how can you how can youreframe who you are to your family?And that's a big question.Well, no, it's so so go back to the talk we had about Microsoft 95.OK, so that's individual programming.And that's why when you try to run a program from 30 years ago, it's notappropriate anymore. Well, a family, if you think about it, is a higher level.It's not an individual, but it's still an org.It's still it's like an organism in itself.Right. And so it has its own patterns.OK, now, the difference in a family is there's usually more than onelawsuit involved. And so that's where we get conflictingagendas, if you will, because not everybody wants to change.And so I think you probably saw the slide because I put it usually in everything.If someone doesn't want to change, there's nothing you can do to change them.OK, but if someone wants to change, there's nothing you can do to stop them.So if you as an individual in the family are changing because you want to changeand grow involved. And so the first step is to make sure that the family has ashared set of values that everybody agrees to live by.And so say one of them is growth.Well, if you're growing and they're not, then you can call them out on the valuesand you can just kind of manage it according to the values.Not not everybody does that.And so the only other way to do it is whenyou change, you change, they don't change.And they don't have to change because it's not your job to change them.You're not to change police.Someone doesn't want to change.They don't want to change.However, what we do is we we inadvertently make it easy for people to not change.OK, instead of making it hard for them to not change, because if you if you made itso that it was more uncomfortable for them to not change than to change,then they would change of their own volition.It would have nothing to do with you.So what happens, though, in families is wetry to play the role while we're changing.And then we somehow blame them for not, you know, accepting our changes.And so if you've ever seen any of the quotes that are, you know,these are famous quotes like you're not everybody's cup of tea because you'rewhiskey or, you know, the one I recently saw, which I loved, which is.If you're an ocean, be an ocean, don't be a pond because other people can't swim.Right. I love that.It's funny, like I didn't even think of this until you were talking about it.But the like I have some close family.I was like, they change who they are when they go back to meet with family.And I was like, and I just I have a little bit different relationships.I was like, why, why would I?Well, I want to make sure that we keep the peace of that artificial harmony.I'm like, why? I don't understand.Higher value.But yeah, like that idea of putting on a mask.So it's actually really prevalent in the family dynamic.And when you have it's the same.So so if it's just you and your growth and your development and your businessand it's one person.And you've done all this systemization and scaling in the proper structure,then the growth will be constrained by your own personal growth.It will the business will only grow to yourcapacity that you understand it to be able to grow to soon as you have partners.It's now constrained by both.Andit will only grow according to the lowest common denominator, by the way.And you have that dynamic, that partner dynamic is the same dynamic in an intimaterelationship. So one of the systems I study is astrology and the same house thathouses the intimate relationship also houses the business partner.So not that you're having sex with yourbusiness partner, but the point is that the projective relationship between the twois similar. And so now you've got this, you know, I have had a lot of privateclients who I've worked with the two partners, you know, and in all the instancesI'm thinking of, they were men, they don't have to be, but they just were.So I worked with the two men to do breakthroughs for the to the co-CEOs orwhatever they were. Right.And then I would work with their intimatepartners because that's how it always goes.They always will. Oh, yeah.So then so now I've worked with the and what would be interesting going forward isit's if they were having trouble in their marriage, their business was doing reallywell. If they're having trouble in theirbusiness, their marriage was doing really well.And it was the balancing act of keeping both conscious and its work.Right. And it's shattering patterns and ittakes effort and, you know, it takes desirebecause it's way easier to keep things the same.Well, a family is, you know, three meets, four meets, it's five.And so now you have, you know, all the interplay going on and all.So imagine if you and your brother have apattern that you created in the, you know,twenty five years ago.And it's never changed or you and your mom or whatever.And so it requires breaking it.OK, now that's the goo phase.It's not comfortable.And it often comes with all kinds of crap.And so that's why anybody who's out there doing dynamic work with families orbusiness, family coaching or whatever, their work is is it's systematic and it'smore complex than one on one. Now, you could just do a breakthroughwith every single person that would work, but they all have to want it.Yeah. I turn away more clients than I takebecause I screen for desire and willingness.And most people don't really want it.They want to want it. That doesn't work for me.Yeah, right.Thethis is a couple of years now, but it's similar but different.But so I invest a lot of time and energy into personal professional development,peer groups, conferences, reading andmy wife told me.It was it was a moment because she's also smart, executive, et cetera.She does not want to do the personal development.She's not as interested.I don't want it. Right.But then she said the words to me one day and she's like, just so that you know,your constant effort and investment and she didn't use that word.But you're always trying to improve.All I hear is that you're not satisfied or content with what you have today.And that hit like a ton of bricks because I was doing like there was a while there.I was doing like 20 days a month, not in the house between work and my ownpersonal stuff.And it was like, yeah, no, but I am.But then like that that drive that the where does the ambition and contentmentlive together?Isand yeah, it's been a couple of years.I think about it.I think at least thinking about it is part of the solution.I don't really have any other answer.But well, if you're doing something in order to makewhat you don't want go away, it's probably not something you should be doing.Yeah, but I think I enjoy the process.I like why she perceives.Exactly.But that's because of the way she perceives reality, not the way you do.Like why am I going to Oxford?Honestly, I'm going to Oxford to learn.I want to have a big like I want to tell you it's because I need this or want thator whatever and you don't value this or you value like people.Why do I go in there?Why do you need another degree?I don't know. I don't.But like I want to go and push myself.And, you know, for the sake of pushing myself, like it's like that's actually why Iwant to do it. There is no agenda.I'm not trying to fix anything.Right. And so and and typically, you know,like I always say to I'm not the change police.People think they think that I think that you need to.Everyone needs to change.I do not.And sometimes I come across as callous.Right. Because I look at the world and I go, I don't think there's anything wrong.What are you talking about?Well, here's the thing.It's not for me to tell people how to live.I always ask, how is it working for you?Now, if you say to me, it's not working for me.Oh, my God, I will go hell and high water to help you change it.But I will never impose on you that you should change anything.And people say, well, clearly they're suffering.Well, no, humans are suffering.They tend to take their foot out of the fire.Right. So what I know about humans is, you know, if I light your leg on fire,you're going to put it out because that's fire.But if I let your leg on fire and before you put it out, somebody comes along andcooks you dinner and does your laundry because your legs on fire, then you're like,I mean, my legs on fire and that does hurt.But this is pretty sweet deal.So I'm just going to let it burn a little bit, see if I can manage it,do some executive functioning around it.Right. And and I'm going to get my dinnermade and my laundry done and I got all I got to do is sustain a little bitof manageable fire pain.OK, so so humans.Are kind of the same in that construct.Humans are very different, obviously, in their individual expressions.And so if someone wants to change, you literally can't stop them.And that's a family dynamic issue that comes up, right?Child wants to change.Parents don't want them.You know, like my son isjust graduated from university and he's in that phase in his life, wants to travelthe world, love, love, love, free spirit.That's great. Look, you do you.And in order to leave us because we're delightful, right?We are really nice people.We got a very comfortable house and environment, great life.And in order to leave this, you've got to pretty much demonize the shit out of it.Right. And so that's a natural progression.And so as kids leave home when they're 18 and 20 and even when they'rethree years old or whatever, they go through these periods where they have toreject the group in order to develop their individual selves.That's like a natural.If they don't do it, if they don't do that, they'll never leave.They'll never be independent.OK, so I always say to my young people, it's not just my son and my daughterand my friends, kids, I always say, like, don't confuse the natural.You absolutely you have to villa.You have to find something and go, that's shit.I got it. I'm out of here.Right. So that you'll have the courage to leave and go start your own clan and doyour own thing. Don't confuse that with the state,the actual state of the deep loving and support of your actual family.Those two things are very different.And so go fly, be free.But I'm here. Like, don't worry, I'm still here.You can, you know, make it because I'm I'm lame ass and I don't know what a meme isor whatever.But, you know, it it's not for me to impose my values on you.But when kids are leaving home or when even when they're becoming three year old,right, and they're trying to differentiate their individuality,they're going to demonize the place so that they can have the guts to do it.Well, that's what I did when I left the corporate world.I had to demonize it so that I have the guts to leap.And then when I left, I had the functioningability to be able to adapt myself to to survive and to survive some.Like my first book was called The Secret of Successful Failing.It wasn't, hey, look at how great I am standing on top of this mountain.It was like, I'm here, it's not on my face, and I'm I'm still standing becauseI'm a honey badger, right?Sosure, it looks good on paper, you know, but it's not without its adaptation.You know, somebody asked me a really good question this weekendand what you were saying, what was it?Instead of saying the typical, oh, how have you been?How are you? He's he's kind of sat back and he said,all right, things go in your way.And I was like, oh,you're going to have to let me sit for a second.Not today. Not today.Yeah, I'm just like, oh, that's my new that's going to be my new icebreaker at anyevent or things going your way lately.And like what I mean, it just got me thinking, like, I actually don't know rightnow, it got me spiraling.It is my way.Levi, what's some of the learning that you've loved?You sound like you were an obsessive learner at one point.What's some of the greatest things that you learned?I'm a really big learner.Languages, communication, cultures.So I was a linguistics and language major.Sweet. One of my biggest things is I don't I don't know you.This is coming from your comment about like, I'm not going to be able to get allthese bits of information is I don't unless I make some dramatic changes.I'm never going to learn another language.Even with Duolingo?Well, I know what it takes to learn a language and I need to carve out the time.And I believe you have to have immersion for a port of it.And the guy studied three years of Japanese and five years of German and fouryears of Spanish, like at a university level, and then came away.And because I didn't anchor, but IGerman, French and English, I moved to those countries and worked in there for ayear or two. I'm learning Latin.What do you recommend I do?Not to use for it.How do I immerse myself?You know what? Ironically,the one place on Earth where there's like a really active Latin club is Oxford andthey speak in Latin.Well, I mean, learning Latin is kind of the basis and root language for a lot ofothers, but it's fascinating.But for me, it's the actual like how things are done, like so like the extensivethree and four months in other countries and I'm a chef by trade.So I get really, really deep into the the reasons why food have changedbecause of the way that the like spicy food from India is because norefrigeration, warm temperatures like you can, you know, French cuisine is builtoff very, very poor constraints like it'sanyway. And yeah, so we do a lot of that.But the interpersonal stuff.So like I'm I'm doing a change managementcertification this weekend because I'm just fascinated by that type of thing.Yeah, I mean, I used to like so the peer groups you've spoken for, you know,I got the opportunity post business failure.There's a similar but differentorganization called the Wallace McCain Institute, which isit's a peer group is just Atlantic Canadian.It's modeled after YPO.Yeah, yeah.I got they needed people to moderate, facilitate and manage those programs.So five years post business failure, I went instill nursing my own scars for my own failure, but also being able to work withlike groups of 16 to 18 people in their own funk and that that exposure.And the whole business becomes that we live under the hood of people'sorganizations and challenges. And so it's a constant learning.And those groups.Yeah. So I speak, you know, YPO tech, WPO lab, lab, lab, I call them the oath.They're they they're all the same and different in their execution,different in their values, different in their flavors.But the value comes fromnot reinventing the wheel, like learning from someone else's experience.Right. So so, you know, but even just when youtalk about like, like your so the real leap is when you understand that the failurewas the greatest thing that's ever happened.So it's not a scar.It's not something to nurse.In fact, it's the it probably shaved 10, 20, 30 years off your learning curve.Right. It just it just in our culture is like, think about winning.So if you've ever played hockey or whatever, just think about winning.Right. What did you learn from it?Jack shit, like literally nothing.OK. And so I think about losing.Think about I think about the things thatI lost, right, the election in second yearuniversity, the the race that I lost, youknow, like I think about them and I think,God, those things were good.You know, like I came in last place in grade eight in thethe fifteen hundred meter run last place and and it was even worse because the boyI liked was kind of mock cheering for me, you know, in grade eight or thirteenwhatever came in last place and I didn't die.And and it taught me a resilience.So now when I go to do things like, dude, if you can survive coming in last placewhen you're 13 in front of the boy that you like, probably you can survivetrying something there, there and there and there.Right. So it's it's the greatest thing that's ever happened to you.It's just we we don't you know, we don't like putting our hand on the stove.It burns. Right.So we've come to associate pain bad, but pain is just the signal that you'reexceeding your limit of tolerance and in a in a functioning environment.That might mean you should stop, but it probably means you should develop somesort of function to be able to handle it.Well, in that case, then any time you fallon flat on your face has been triumphant, the only failure really is to let it beatyou. And so it's like fall down seven, get up eight.And I am the queen of that.I've had a lot of conversations around thisbecause, you know, once you've gone through this and it was very public, it wasin the news, you still Google my face and the face of me from that article stillcomes out. AndI guess where I differ a little bit is I definitely learn.And I think that I'm you know, I feel like I can deal with like I don't know whatwould happen that I would be like, I can'thandle that now that I've gone through someof the stuff I've gone through, especially from a business and entrepreneurshipperspective. But I keep the F with the capital of the failure with the capital F.And I own and I don't want to under.I don't want to have language thatmitigates the true understanding that word because in that specific situation,it wasn't just me that got hurt.Sure. And so going forward, when I thinkabout it as like I I can be my owntolerance and my own ability to manage and my ownway to learn. Like I can think but like I wasn't going into that first businessaware of the possible consequences on others when I fail.And so like I had vendors like I didn't want to care about the banks, but I hadsuppliers because I had a local food grocery company.So I had 170 family farms that I left hanging onand then the community and all that stuff like and the staff.Why do you assume that thatthat that was bad for them?Because it gave them an opportunity to figure out who they were.Yeah, I would I mean, it's probably a longer discussion.I think that it had some really open.I didn't get hurt. It wasn't a shit show.I get all that. But if you made amends like you, you, you seem to have remorseand you made amends, that's all you can do.Can't undo the past.And it's certainly not going to prevent you from failing in the future.But it it it if you learn from it and then you learn from it.But like it's this illusion like so.So take it to a parenting conversation so that it's not so in your face.So we think that if we create theseenvironments where our kids never fail.That that was somehow better for them.It's 100 percent wrongbecause the safest they're ever going to be is in a family environment or in aschool that cares about them, where they should be taking risks, where they shouldactually push past their limit, they should actually disastrously fall flaton their faces and then have somebody there watching,seeing what they do, and then if they say I'm hurt too much, I, you know, and thenhave the OK, I'm here to console you because, you know, sometimes if it hurtstoo much, sometimes you need a shoulder to cry on.But if we if we create failurelessenvironments, they never, ever know what they can do ever.Yeah, ever.And then they have we have adults and atsome point the parents aren't around anymore and the world doesn't give a shit.As much, right.So think of the guy who sunk Barron's bank.You know, like wouldn't have been better if he came last in a race.And been allowed to come last.But think about the way we live right now.I watch, you know, my my my nieces and nephews are younger than I am.So I watch them in environments where theparents are literally going to town on theteacher for failing, you know, or whatever.And it's like, OK, all right.We could also hold that kid accountable, maybe teach them something.Right. So so if you did it on purpose, if youwere some sort of psycho sociopath, I'd be like, OK, got issues.But to have remorse and to make amends like there's a really good children'sbook that might help you in going forward, it's called The Little Soul in the Sun.It's a kids book and it might help you understand that.You aren't here to make everybody more comfortable.That's not to say you go out and poke people in the eyes with forks.OK, but it's not your job to to make yourself a certain way so that everyoneelse feels less uncomfortable.Your job is to be fully who you are.And if you accidentally step on someone's toes in the process, you say, I'm sorry,I stepped on your toes. I didn't mean to hurt you.And then then the rest of it, you're out.If you're not responsible for the world, that's a lot of weight to carry.You can carry it, but I'm just you know, it's not so and it won't prevent you fromdoing it in the future. But if you have the knowledge that you gotfrom it, it could be great.Think about Steve Jobs.Right. Hello.We write books about me.He he was firedfrom the company he founded because he was, you know, he fucked up so badly.Right. And and yet that turned him into who he ended up becoming.So, yeah,he can't book the Little Soul in the Sun.It's a kid's book.It's the guy who wrote Conversations with God, Neil Donald Walsh.He wrote a kid's book.It's not very long, but it basically if you had wanted a parable for how to explainto kids why people do mean things, why do people do mean things?Why do bad things happen to good people?You read it and I'm not saying it's true.It's a story.But the metaphor is pretty rich and there's an obvious metaphor.And then there's the metaphor for peoplewho are leaders, which isyou don't intend to hurt people, but you do.You just do because that's the nature of reality.Clean up your mess.Make amends move on because you don't know what it is that the other personis contracted to learn.They they are here to grow and learn, too, whether it's not for you to change andlearn them. That's not your job.But you might be the catalyst.Right.Andyou know, I first gave this little speech here when one of my friends didn't wantto break up with his girlfriend 20, 30 years ago, so I can't do that to her.I was like, what are you talking about?She won't be able to handle it.I was like, dude.She will.I didn't want to quit Proctor and Gamble for months.I toiled, toiled.Oh, my God, I can't do it.I can't do it. I can't do it.They won't be like I'm so important.And I was like, and one of my friends was like, you reallydon't think they can get on without you?Right. Like this was a but it was a real thing.And shockingly, somehow they've paid dividends since the day I quit.I don't know how they're doing it without me.Right.It was a real thing.I was like really not quitting at the time because I was sincerely worried that itwas my responsibility to carry that burden.I got a question for you.Yeah. And maybe you have an opinion.Maybe you don't.One of the things we do is we helporganizations and people, but mostly around organizations, adopt tools.Yeah. Of which right now, generative AI is a big one of those tools.And I've been working on these workshops in organizations.And part of that is part of it is bringing up everybody's understanding so we canhave a conversation, part of it is aligning on like what they're going to do.And there's a lot of like we need everybodyto at least have the conversation or the ethics and the people's goods and stuff.100%.But then thethe one I've been hearing lately is more and more especially youth.And I don't know where youth begins in this context, butthey're using chat, CPT or equivalent to have the coaching, counselingconversations that we're talking about that are in books and they're notlike when I'm talking to them now, there's I don't know if there's anythingthat's going to pull them to read something.They're having it as an interactive conversation.And I was just wondering what you thought about that and where that's going.Well, who programs AI?That's my that's it.Mic drop.So humans haven't been able to figure out their own morality.And.We're trying to have an ethics and moral conversation about AI, but it's programmedby humans.So, yeah.Now, I don't know about you guys, but when I use AIand I get I like I like admonish it, sometimes I get total bullshit.Like I was like, I'm looking for retirementhomes in Windsor that have kitchens in the suites.It's pretty straightforward question.And it gave me the list of two places that don't exist.Anda place in Ohio.And I and I said, I was looking Windsor.Oh, I'm so sorry.And then and these places don't exist.Oh, my bad.Soso I'm just going to say this straight up.That's a bad idea using AI to get coaching.So I totally get that.I guess the challenge I'm having this conversation is that the people askingthose personal reflective questions, the stuff coming back at them is a lot harderto understand as BS.It's harder to fact check for sure.And so like it's just like how do I.Yeah, aside from just giving like, here's the red light caution.Don'tyeah, because internally, even in companies, they're now using it like it's partof their experience and it's like that's scary.Yeah. Well, these same ding dongs usevoice activatedcustomer service phone lines, not understanding that38 percent of rapport is through voicerapport and the machine can't replicate it, which is why anybody who gets an IVRthat says, like, tell me what they want to throw the phone through the wall by thetime they're they're through to the human.And then they have a policy that says don't be an asshole.But like, I want to start with don't I want to start with a policy with I'm notgoing to use your stupid IVR because it's not a human.Yeah, right.I've used it like I'll hop in a car and talkthrough things with chat on the voice thing on my Bluetooth.And, you know, not all great, but sometimes,you know, it's great to just talk through things.And I can I didn't actually I didn't knowthat, Levi, that some of that stuff's beencoming up.But, yeah, I've had a couple littleseemingly good breakthroughs on the, you know,let's be honest, Levi, the information coming out of most coaches mouth isbullshit, too, so it's no more or less bullshit.It's just that my my ability to spot the error is easier based on where from whereI sit. But the solution here is to to have bettercritical faculty, better critical thinkingskills, you know, like the kind we get inschool.Some do.OK, but no, like I'm being a very, very sarcastic.So so we've we've eliminated that because we can't give anybody anything other thana green light on the report card or whatever the frick we're doing now.Like, like, you know what, when you got a 52 in whatever spelling,you knew you weren't good in spelling andyou either improved it or you rejected it.But at least you knew now you get a yellow light.What does that mean?Like, so again, we've gone insane in terms of we've stopped teaching people how tothink. Now you're a linguist. Linguistics is made up of rules.OK, so you want to mess with people'sability to think critically, change the rules of their language.Make it OK toto violate grammatical rule and you've just obliterated their ability to thinkcritically.I like stir on the pot in these conversations.I have one for vegans.I have one for the devoutly religious and I have one for the like the grammarlanguage because like in languages, you learn the rules.In linguistics, you learn that if somebodyunderstands what you're saying, it's OK for language.100%.And so the person who corrects my grammar is like, let's have a conversation.But for communal creation, 100%, if I knew you, if you go me coffee now, fine.I got it. Give you coffee.But that doesn't that that violates the rules in the sense that the the world ismade up of information and the information flows through structured pathways.And if those pathways,if the structures cease to exist, then it's just chaotic, unorganized information.And what grammar gives us is the organized information.OK, so Pythagoras, who and stop me if youknow this, was a mathematician, but he was a philosopher.OK, some people say Pythagoras, whatever, whatever your flow to botha squared plus b squared equals c squared.But but he was trying to he used math to prove his philosophy.So he didn't come out thinking, I want to come up with a triangle theorem.He was trying to say to peoplerhetoric or your opinion or your belief.So I teach this in an NLP class.So your beliefs are rhetoric.They're not fact.They're they're rhetoric.Because of this, it's not fact.It's 126 bits out of two million.It's not fact.But it's rhetoric.How you arrive at your rhetoric is you combine the data in some sort of logic.So you take the data and you run itthrough some sort of logic sequence and then youcome up with the rhetoric. OK, so I'll give you an example.When my son was really little, he used to get these nosebleeds all the time and heused to freak out in the first time it happened, of course, right, like bloodeverywhere. A kid comes running into your room in the middle of the night.It looks like a crime scene.And so everybody's freaking out.We're just trying to unfreak out.And so, you know, hugs, cuddles, freezes, pinch the nose, whatever.So this goes on months on end.And every time he's screaming andscreaming and every time we do the thing and do thething and do the thing.And so he's sitting there coloring one day during the day.And I go, why do you freak out like like it's been months now.I get the first one or the second one, but seriously, it doesn't hurt.Like, why are you freaking out?It was like four or five tops.OK, and he goes, mom.Love is in my heart.You know, that's what you tell me.And, you know, he goes to Montessori schooland I learned that my heart pumps my blood.And so I'm scared that I'm losing all my love.And I was like, holy shit.Like, try that on.If that if you thought that, what would you think when you cut yourself?You would you would be like, I got to get this to stop.I'm losing all my you'd freak out.It made complete sense.Unfortunately, it was it was an error.True. Your love is in your heart area,chakra, whatever energetically, but it's not physically in your heart.So the data was screwed up and your heart does pump your blood.And then he logically connected love,heart, heart, pump, love, bleed, love out.So his logic was fairly sound, but his data was corrupted.And so his rhetoric was false.Well, that's how beliefs are formed.And so what I what someone like I do, what I do is I either examine their data orexamine their logic and typically one or the two fail and then and then and then itfails, right, you know, like Iam not a linguist like you, but I know how to chop up sentences to test them in theCartesian coordinates, right, I am a loser.Whatever. I can chop that up into twopieces and test all four quadrants and people are what do you mean test?OK, well, I see a ghost.Let's chop that up into two quadrants.I see a ghost.All right. I see a ghost.Well, fine.Not I see a ghost.Do you see a ghost? No.So you don't. So not I.That's I. So you're not I.Do you see a ghost? No, there's no ghost.It fails immediately, which means the rhetoric failed somewhere.So you look to the data or the logic.Now, if we stop learning logic and grammar is the logic of words,then we lose the ability to deconstruct our rhetoric.That's different than can we communicate?Monkeys can communicate.Yeah, I see that.I mean, likeexceeding, I'll keep going to food because that's my real background is like youunder when you understand the rules and the theory so well that you no longer haveto follow the rules, right?But a lot of people aren't getting there.Yes, especially when it comes to language, like in their critical thinking in the.Yeah, and they we don't.So we say misinformation, but we don't know what that means.Like I go, where do you get your data?Chat GPT. Well, like, dude, right out of the gate.That's not a credible source.Right. I went to you guys were Canadian.So I went to Newfoundland years ago and they have the Flat Earth Coffee Company.And I thought that was cute.Flat Earth Coffee. Ha ha ha.We're on the ferry to Fogo Island, drinking Flat Earth.And we get to Fogo Island.We do a hike and there's a sign like a municipality sign, like not like a tapesign, like a sign at the top of this cliff.And it said, caution, you're about to fall off one of the four corners of the FlatEarth. And I was like, what the hell is it?OK, now we so now we have something getting my attention.And so then I saw a sign the Flat Earth Coffee Company and Museum.And I was like, OK, next day pouring rain.I'm like, that's it.So we go to this museum.OK, and I walk in and I'm like, OK, what's going on?And so there they are with behind the coffee cafe thing.And they don't look like they're from Fogo Island.They look urban.You know what I mean?And so I'm like, what's up?And they're like, oh, hi, my name's so and so and so and so.And we're students at the University of Waterloo.And I'm like, what?Why are you here at the end of the earth?She said, oh, this is one of the most coveted co-op positions for philosophystudents.And I was like, why?And she goes, well, first of all, it's not a conspiracy theory place.That's not what this is about.I go, OK, well, what's the deal?And she goes, how do you know the earth is round?And I said.And it was like, oh, I know this is a trick question, right?So I'm like running through.OK, how do I know?How do I know? No, no, no.I said, I've seen pictures.She goes, did you take them?I said, no.She goes, welcome to our museum.I was like, son of a bitch.And I spent the entire day in this museum, OK, challenging how you know, you know.Right. Now, the truth is you don't.You can't.Right. And so then what do you do?Well, you proceed to act knowing you don't know,but you're doing the best you can with what you got.Well, that's all anybody can do, but that's not all there is.It's just the best you can with what you got.And if you come to a point in your life where you want something else,you've got to learn to do a different best you can with what you got.You've got to learn to do a different program.And so that's why I can honestly say I'm not trying to impose my way.I have opinions, but I also know that they change over time andwith new information, as soon as I get a piece of new information,that is brand new information.It changes everything. Right.Do you have an instant pot?Yeah, I've ever seen the video where you put the lid thingy in the thingy.When I was like, oh, my God, I've been putting my lid on the counter.Well, there's a spot on the side.I know I don't even have one, Colby.Yeah.But like for years, I would say, God,like there's got to be a better way to do this.And it never until I saw the video and Iwas like, and I never did it that way again.Like I never not use the little slot again, but I didn't know it was there.Yeah. Right.So and I know that's a stupid thing to talk about,but that's how fast when new information comes, either new dataor or or fix fix logic, like if your logic is flawed, your rhetoric changesimmediately, like immediately, and it never goes backbecause you can't unlearn what you know.Hmm.You look like you're sitting on something, Colby.A little bit likewhat are you not saying?Yeah. Nice.What did he not call you?If you could install.Yeah.An idea or a belief intoa person's mind.Is there things that you found more valuable over time in your work?That would be valuable for us and other people who might be listening.You know, I could I could saysomething trite like you could do anything and that would be true.OK, it is true.There's nothing more powerful than the power you have within you.However, what I've learned over the years of working with individualsis that's not necessarily the beliefs that they adopt in the breakthrough.So.It's a version of that.So, yes, you could do anything.Right. That's true.The the everything you need is already inside of you like a little seed,but it has to be activated.And typically it's the failures that activate, by the way.However, the way that you express that belief for one person could be,I am strong or it could be I am smart or it could be the one beliefthat they've never believed that's a version of you could do anything.But it's it's it's personal.So when I do a breakthrough with someone,it's not like everybody comes out with the same beliefs.They come out with different beliefs based on their constructs, based on theirmeet suit, their desires, their values, their, you know, whatever their modelof reality is. But what we've done is taken out the onesthat don't work anymore because while they might have protected you in the past,they aren't working anymore.And and then the new one or the or the authentic one emerges.But it's not like a common theme across every client.So it's not like every client comes out with I can do it.I'm loved or whatever.They come out with the things they neededto remember about themselves that were truethat they forgot when they were busy forgetting.You know, so it it's typically emerges when the thing you're believing doesn'twork for you anymore.I'm running a marathon.It'stoo 19, 2004.I have two babies.So I'm pretty good.Like, I mean, you know, you said I see you on LinkedIn, you're then.Yeah. Up until I had my kids, like I pretty much like I would win only because Iwouldn't leave the court.Right. And so I had two babies really closetogether and that broke me. I was like not thriving.There was no executive functioning.And I was like, I said to my husband, I got to do something here.So he's like, OK.And I said, well, if I think this is impossible and I think I'm making that up,I'll do something else that's impossible.And if I do it, then that'll break the boundary on the definition.He's like, OK, what are you going to do?I said, I'm going to run a marathon.He was like, oh, God, please no.Right. Like, please no, because I'd run ahalf marathon a couple of years ago and itnearly broke me my knees.And he was like, please no.And I was like, no, I'm doing it.So so I'm a really slow runner.And the long story of this is that that.I couldn't even find a running group thatran slow enough because they had walkers, but I didn't want to walk.I want to run.So I trained and the whole the whole training is like it doesn't you wouldn'tbelieve me if I told you so.So there I am at my marathon in San Francisco, which is a terrible placeto do your first marathon.OK, terrible.But it was sponsored by Tiffany's and the you know, at the end, when you get thething, this was a silver chain with a little silver Tiffany's medal with a guy.It was a women's marathon.Know your audience.So it was a guy, you know, white gloves,tails, silver platter to blue Tiffany boxthat'll get anybody across the finish line.So I'm running this thing and I've trained for it and whatever and I'm running.And and around miles16, there were nine miles left and miles sounds like kilometers, but they're notnine miles. Right.That one. Right.So I hit the wall and and it was it was bad.And my husband had just dropped, you know, he was biking around and I was like, I'mkicking this racist ass and I'm running up this hill.And as I'm running up this hill, the wheels start to fall off.Right. And I get to the top and I am frozen solid.I like every muscle my body is seized.OK, I'm crying and it's not stripping.I'm realizing it's nine miles like I can't nine miles.I can't go nine centimeters.Right. I am frozen in the ground.But for some reason, my husband's there and he's like, what the hell?And I'm thinking, oh, my God, they're going to have to take me off one of thosethings and the whole thing.OK, I'm just and I am just in it just like like just whatever.And my husband's not saying a word and he's behind me and I had to raise moneyfor team and training and so like 50 names on my shirt and he's reading people'snames and he's like, who's so and so on how we I worked with our P.A.G.Who's this person?Doesn't she work for it? Yeah, she gave you 100 bucks.Doesn't she in school?Yeah. So it was like all these names.And then it hit me like a cosmic two by four.Oh, my God.They all think I can do this.My mom thinks I can do this.My dad, everybody thinks they all gave me this money.I've been thinking he's biking all over San Francisco.My friends are looking after our two babies with their two babies at the finishline with big signs. There's only one person that that it's got to be me.Like I'm the only one here who doesn't think I can do this.It was like right there like a chalkboard.And I was like, well, that doesn't work.I literally like, nope, I do not accept that.I'm doing this.And the minute that transaction happened, I'm not making this up.You can ask my husband.It was like an unpause and everything whooshed out of me.My muscles were were fine.I could move. I could walk.I wasn't in pain.This person person came off the side with a gel.You look like you need a gel.Like, where the hell have you been?Like, super weird.And I was like, all right.So I gave my husband my watch and all mytiming and I said, I'm finishing this race.He's like, I'm like, 100 percent.Like, I I got this.And so I finished and, you know, I.When you do a marathon, because I was in a marathon.Yes, the motivational speaker said there's a goal.He's still limping from it.Well, the motivational speaker saidthere'll be a point in the race where you'll knowfor sure you're going to finish some people.That's the beginning.OK, so I get about 800 meters from this 42,200 meter race.So it's along the stretch in the in San Francisco and it and it dawns on me.I'm finishing.If there's only 800 meters left and I know I can physically tell there's enoughtank in the gas in the tank, so I start sprinting.OK, like like I was on the high school track team.Remember, I wasn't a good long distancerunner, but I was well trained, and so I started sprinting.And my girlfriend, she said, it looked like Flojo was winning the Olympics.You were your form was perfect.And I came across the finish line six hours and nine minutes above my head.OK, got my Tiffany's thing.You took a few photos, went out of an ice bath.Done.And.And I hit the wall.That's my husband.I could not move, not a muscle.I was every muscle was seized by Lactic.I was done.And then the belief came to the surface because there was nothing else to focus on.I couldn't move.And then I just.That was it gone.And so.Now, when hard things happen and I hit theproverbial walls, this this belief of youcan figure this out, you got this comes to the surface.And then somehow I do.Now, it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for that thing.And it was it was it was very unpleasant.OK, so, you know, how do you replace a belief?So what I tried to do is make it easier for people than that.But it's the same process.You have to uncover it, eliminate it, replace it.Such a good answer.Well, that's the bottom line.You can do anything.Dr.Like you can do anything.But your disbelief about that doesn't make it less true.I was followed up as you can do anything.You probably shouldn't do everything.Right.I always say in my classes, anything is possible.I sound like a Pollyanna, right?Anything is possible in the quantum field.Literally anything is possible.But not everything is probable.What's probable?The things that are programmed.Right. The ruts.You know, you guys toboggan, right?Yeah. Have to know.So great snow.Let's say it snows a meter overnight and you're the first one to the hill.Is that a good thing or a bad thing?You got a toboggan, there's a meter deep of snow.You put it down at the top.It's terrible. Yeah.Why? Because you're like, right.And then you do it again and again and again.But by the 50th time.You could shoot yourself right into the lake.Yeah.If you put a little and if you get it to melt a little bit and freeze a little bitand get like a little mob sled track, right.And it's super unsafe.Right. And then and then that's the trackyou're going to use, even if the wholehill is covered in snow and pristine and readyto go. And so that's what our habits are like.Right. The first time and the second time.But then, you know, 50 years later, that track is like Greece lightning.Yeah, that's a great analogy.It's only Canadians. It's only for Canadians.Even you were sketching.You were like, I don't know.It sounds good. No, it's not.It's terrible. Yes.It's sweating.I think you asked to bargain and I don'ttoboggan a tube.So I said, oh, yeah, yeah, you sit on top.Yeah. But you got to cut a rut for toboggan.I think that story and analogy is a pretty good.I think so, too.I think so, too.Like it was that was that was a perfect answer.Perfect.I've also hit that wall.I hit that wall at 32 kilometers and feels good.I didn't know what people were talking about because I didn't traininto that distance, so I just didn't believe it and didn't know what they weretalking about. But anyway, it's real. It's there.It's real, but it's also not real.Yeah.Like what I did was inexplicable.It sounds superhuman.It wasn't superhuman, but it was ultra human.Do you know what I mean?Like, yeah, like I didn't need those resources until I got to the place wherethere was no other option up until that point in my life.Anytime it got hard, maybe I was just powering through, you know, instead ofactually changing the belief and so until you need the resources, you won'tconcoct the theincident to evoke them.Yeah.So but that's what the failure is.It's evoking a power you didn't even know you had.But you have it because I said so.That's what I'm going to use Oxford for because I said I went to Oxford.I said so.And you'll get the doctor.Yeah. Dr.Gina, I mean, I've been waiting for that for a long time.My brother has a PhD and it's always bothered me.This is the truth, probably, that he has a PhD and I don't.Right. The truth comes out.Well, Dr.Gina sounds great. Right.Yeah, it sounds like a sex therapist, really.There's always a career change at any point because you can do it as recentlydeparted as a Canadian national treasure, so it is a replacement.Yeah.So I think that's a really good endpoint.I mean, you keep talking.But after some of these stories, I feel like you get to a point where you get sogood and then you'll just start diluting it if you go longer.Yeah, I know.But I just want to make sure this was the longest podcast you've ever done.I'm just kidding.I think you hit it by one minute.When you said two hours ago, I wish no going over two hours.I 100% need to win that.I think that's probably the show notes.It's a little promoted like that as well.That's the longest ever.Ever. Yeah.Dare you.Yeah, when we did scavenger hunts, we broke the Guinness Book one year.And I say we. It's really all Andrew.But it's been smashed a multiple times since.But we were on our world tour with our kids.Where our where our rule was we couldn't leave each other.And so we were traveling for a year and the event was taking place in the States.But we were in Japan and he was like, well, I got to go and I got to go.And I was like, mmm, this is what the scaling's for.Like, this is what the replication is for.So we actually had this huge Guinness Book breaking event.We weren't even there.Wow.Right.So, you know, we like records.All right.Thank you very much.Yes.Thanks for having me, you guys.Appreciate your time.You can do anything.I love it.This episode of Built to Last is brought to you by Ironhouse Pro.You're behind the scenes partner in building organizations designed to thrive.We specialize in solving the big challenges,the small annoyances and everything in between.So while you're out there dreaming big, we're here making sure your systems,processes and people are ready for tomorrow.Ironhouse Pro driven to create lasting organizations.Learn more at IronhousePro.com.