Why Americans Are Turning to the Paranormal—and What That Says About Trust, w Author Matt Hongoltz-Hetling

Do you believe in ghosts? The paranormal? Hold that thought. Believe it or not, it ties directly into the themes of our show.

Trust in our institutions is crumbling—from government and media to higher education, and yes, even medicine, science, and public health. Today’s guest, Pulitzer Prize finalist and author of the new book The Ghost Lab, Matt Hongoltz-Hetling, joins us to explore the growing belief in the paranormal—and what it reveals about our national psyche.

He argues that our fascination with ghosts, aliens, and the unexplained may be more than fringe curiosity. It could be a lens into where our deepening mistrust is leading us.

We talk about how the scientific method is being used to investigate hauntings, why medical associations might consider hiring a resident medium, and how something as strange-sounding as moisturizing with snail mucin might contain unexpected insight into building trust.

This is a conversation about the difference between healthy skepticism and corrosive doubt—and what rises to replace expertise when the experts no longer hold sway.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Matt Hongoltz-Hetling, investigative journalist and author of The Ghost Lab and If It Sounds Like a Quack.

Sources:

NYT Opinion by Matt Hongoltz-Hetling
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/29/opinion/medical-freedom-cancer-rfk.html

Every Doctor Faces This Dilemma

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/20/opinion/doctors-vaccines-patients.html

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Chapters

• 0:10 Intro and Headlines: The Paranormal and Mistrust
• 1:18 Do We Believe in Ghosts?
• 3:34 Meet Matt Hongoltz-Hetling!
• 5:17 Tom: How Did We Get Here?
• 7:32 "To Understand The Ghost Hunters is to Understand America's Future"
• 12:08 Defining Paranormal
• 13:23 How Science is Used to Explain the Paranormal
• 15:55 Alternative Remedies Are Often Dismissed by Science
• 19:17 Dr Mark: Evidence Based vs Anecdotes
• 20:41 Maggie: Infectious Disease Was Once Considered Paranormal
• 21:33 The Larger Distrust Landscape
• 25:04 Role for Unproven Cures?
• 28:29 Nevada and its State Homeopathy Board
• 31:14 Brinda and Snail Mucin
• 32:53 How Do Doctors Respond to Demand for Alternative Remedies?
• 36:20 Medical Protocol for Djinn Possession
• 40:24 Kilmar Abrego, Tattoos and Truthiness
• 44:06 Belief in Paranormal Meant Something Deep to the Group
• 46:08 What Can Public Health Do to Rebuild Trust?
• 49:06 See You Next Week!