Kevin Hall Is Still Ultra Processing: On Leaving NIH, On MAHA, On Food in America

Kevin Hall is regarded as one of the world’s leading experts on the impact of food on our health. A former NIH scientist, he led some of the most eye-opening studies on the connections between ultra-processed foods and overeating, obesity, and chronic disease (Spoiler alert: It's not pretty.). So when Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and the Make America Healthy Again movement took the reins at HHS, with gobs of energy and focus on tackling food, you’d think this would be Kevin Hall’s moment. 

Instead, in a stunning move, Hall walked away. He says that his earliest interactions with the new team left him feeling censored and worried that he'd no longer be able to conduct unbiased science.  

So, what made one of America’s leading nutrition scientists see red flags as the MAHA-backed team got to work on the very issue that he's laser-focused on? 

And now, with a little time and distance, what does he think MAHA is getting right, getting wrong, and what its followers should be demanding from their leaders to truly make America eat healthier?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Kevin Hall, nutrition and metabolism scientist, formerly NIH; co-author Food Intelligence, coming out Sept 23, 2025. Available to pre-order here: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/671334/food-intelligence-by-julia-belluz-and-kevin-hall-phd/

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Chapters

• 0:45 Intro and Headlines: Who Is Kevin Hall?
• 3:16 Subscribe to our Substack!
• 5:37 Let's Play Who Said It: Sec Kennedy or Kevin?
• 8:31 Tom: How Did We Get Here? The Biggest Loser
• 13:22 On Kevin Hall's Gold Standard Study
• 15:35 Ultra Processed Food: What Is It?
• 17:45 Obesity in America
• 20:56 Welcome Kevin Hall!
• 22:05 After Election, Feeling Hopeful About Future of Nutrition
• 31:53 Experience of Feeling Censored
• 35:48 Head of NIH Bhattacharya Reaches Out to Kevin
• 47:33 Kevin On What MAHA is Getting Right
• 50:28 Issues with MAHA on Food
• 59:48 Thinking Differently on Food Policy
• 1:10:08 Meeting with MAHA
• 1:16:41 Kevin's Favorite Junk Food
• 1:18:34 Thank you for listening!