Adina Kaplan: Saying Goodbye to My Best Friend

Adina Kaplan was best friends with Miriam Holman since they were in diapers. While they didn’t quite get along as babies, as they grew older, they became close friends, forming a strong bond that carried them through elementary school, high school, seminary, and beyond. 

When Adina was just 18 years old, Miriam was diagnosed with a terrible illness. Adina became a tremendous source of support for Miriam, helping her navigate the fears and unknown that came with her diagnosis. 

Three years after Miriam’s diagnosis, she was hospitalized, and Adina’s life changed forever. Her days revolved around Miriam’s wellbeing. She was by her side day in and day out, always trying to do more and make ease Miriam’s pain. Unfortunately, Miriam passed away a few months later, leaving Adina grieving the loss of her dearest friend. 

When Adina got married a year and a half later, it was very hard for her to process that Miriam wouldn’t be there to celebrate her big day. She couldn’t believe her husband would never meet her best friend.

Adina, along with Miriam’s family and friends, keeps Miriam’s memory alive. They talk about her, reminiscing on special times, commemorate her yahrtzeit together, and hold tight to the joy Miriam brought into the world.

Adina remains closely connected to the Holmans, and they treasure their relationship with their daughter’s dear friend.

Today, Adina runs Mayrim in Eretz Yisroel, continuing Miriam’s legacy by supporting bereaved families and helping them through their grief.

YouTube: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsK24OSmIYG_XWzeplhfmb8LJcWKphITh&si=untn3fmHLLaEEFNm

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/relief-from-grief-by-mayrim/id1788349916

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3AvWNp0DrHqE5AVYJHooiK?si=ufpIObuGRumS5uFXmvrpgA 

Questions or feedback? Email me at: podcast@mayrim.org

Transcript

Introduction to Mayrim and Miriam Holman

Speaker 1 0:02

Welcome to the Relief from Grief podcast, hosted by Mrs Miriam Rebiet and brought to you by Mayrim. Mayrim is an organization dedicated to supporting families who have experienced the loss of a child. It was founded by Eloi Nishmat's, nechama Liba and Miriam Holman. Despite her illness, miriam devoted herself to addressing the needs of parents and siblings grappling with the immense pain of losing a child. She felt this loss deeply, having experienced it firsthand when her older sister, nechama Liba, passed away. Mehrim continues to uplift and expand on the work Miriam began, a mission carried forward by her parents with great dedication. If you have any questions or comments for the speaker, or if you'd like to suggest a guest for the podcast, please email us at relieffromgriefatmayrimorg.

Speaker 2 0:55

Thank you so much for joining me here on the Relief from Grief by Mayrim podcast. Today, mrs Adina Kaplan is our guest and I'm very excited to hear from her. She was a very good friend of Miriam Holman and Miriam eventually was named after her and today Adina runs the Israeli branch of it. So thank you so much for coming on, adina. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. I guess we could start off with the basics, like how you know Miriam and what your relationship was like.

Speaker 3 1:24

So Miriam and I grew up together. I think my mother, when we were like two years old, used to babysit both of us, like along with a group, and we did not get along as kids, as very little kids. And Baruch Hashem, as we got older we, you know, found a very, very special, unique friendship in each other. So we've been friends since we're, since before I can remember, you know, throughout school, elementary school, high school and beyond. My family's very close with the Holman family also. So you know we're bonded in a lot of ways. But yeah, that's how I know Miriam. I know her as long as I know myself.

Speaker 2 2:00

Wow, wow. So you really go way, way back.

Speaker 3 2:03

Yeah.

Speaker 2 2:03

So how old were you when Miriam got sick?

Speaker 3 2:07

So when we were 18, I was 18, she was 19, but it was the seminary year and Miriam went to Artist Rall for seminary and I didn't. I was in America and she got sick around circus time, so it was like October, november. She came back in November, december and then spent, you know, the rest of the year. She joined a seminary in five towns and she got a job and she was totally fully functioning as anyone Like. People didn't even realize that she wasn't well because she just came back and integrated into life in America beautifully. So we were able to be back together again, you know, even though she was anticipating spending the year in Israel and yeah. So she was 19 when she got sick in seminary.

Speaker 2 2:51

So was this scary for you and for her? I guess because her older sister, necham Liba, also had been sick and was niftar.

Speaker 3 3:01

Very much so, very, very much so. I think for anyone who knew the Holmans and who knew Miriam, it was like it felt like a big punch in the stomach when she got sick, but once, like the initial shock wore off, people didn't really know that she was sick. People totally forgot she wasn't, she didn't look sick and she didn't act sick. Now, privately, in our friendship, I know for her it was really really difficult. It was really really difficult not to compare herself to her sister, not to you know, just in terms of not being well, and to you know, I remember having a conversation with her once where I was telling her like Miriam, you're nothing like Nahama in this way. Like you have a different diagnosis, you have a different prognosis. Like everything's different.

Speaker 3 3:47

You can't look at her outcome, which was obviously so, so, so tragic, but you can't look at that and kind of write yourself off, give yourself a death sentence because of that.

Speaker 3 3:58

And she totally, totally excelled at not doing that and I know that it was scary for her. It wasn't something that we spoke about on the regular, but it was definitely scary for her and it was definitely challenging for her, very challenging that we spoke about more than like the scary part of it. But yeah, because she had, you know, experienced the loss of her older sister. There was, for sure, that element there that made it extra hard, extra scary for everyone and obviously for for her as well. But it was a very different story. Her sister was much younger when she passed away and there were so many things that were so different about the story that, like I really, when it came up in conversation with Miriam, I really tried to remind her like don't, don't use Nechama as like baseline for what things are going to look like, cause you have a different, totally different life, totally different DNA makeup. Like you're, you're not, you didn't, it's not going to be the same.

Speaker 2 4:56

I saw a picture of her. Her father sent me a picture, Miriam and her father together, just like a beautiful picture, and I was like, oh my gosh, she's so cute and she's so pretty and just so much like like so full of life. And I do I think about that picture a lot. I'm like it makes no sense, it just it just makes no sense.

Speaker 3 5:12

Yeah, you know what I am A lot of people and if you're, if you're, if you're talking about a picture that I'm thinking of she probably was actually quite ill in that at that point already about a picture that.

Speaker 3 5:25

I'm thinking of she probably was actually quite ill in that at that point already. You know, I remember someone reached out to me like a little bit after Miriam, maybe like a year or two after seminary, and she looks at she's like, by the way, what happened with Miriam? Like I heard a rumor she was sick, but then like what happened and I just like played it off or whatever. But for me that was like such a reminder that like people didn't know what was going on. You know, I remember sitting in the car with Miriam once and she was telling me you know, obviously there was a lot of unknown in her condition and her prognosis and her future, and we were talking once about Shidduchim.

Speaker 1 5:57

We're probably I don't know 1920.

Living Fully Despite Illness

Speaker 3 6:00

And she was saying how it's really hard for her sometimes that people are just super, super insensitive, like they don't realize that she has, you know, very special circumstances. That obviously doesn't mean that you can't get married, but it's her, her, her like roadmap wasn't looking the same as her friends and you know, I told her I like almost blamed her. I was like you know, you're the most functional, normal person. I know Like if you looked sick, people would be much more sensitive. And she said that to me. She's like I almost wish that I had an illness that people could see and that would be a reminder and then they would know don't talk about certain things in front of me, like it's a very sensitive thing. But she didn't. And that was like obviously came with its challenges, the fact that it was a silent, more of a silent, illness. On the other hand, she almost bordered on herself by just being so normal and so herself, and so like you wouldn't know that anything changed from who she was, where she was, that people, even some of our good friends, like I think, just forgot, had they realized what was going on, they obviously would have been a lot more sensitive, but like there was no reason to think she was different than any of us. So the same way you'd fetch about to a totally healthy friend, you're fetching about it to her because in your head she's totally healthy. And that's just like one conversation that that really stood out to me because it just made me realize that, like she's doing a really good job living her life, people don't realize like I give her so much credit for that, give her so much credit for that.

Speaker 3 7:24

And it's not just like she came back. She was. She went to seminary, she went to college. She was. She wanted to be a sonographer, like to do like ultrasounds and stuff. And so she was in college. She was working two jobs. Like she, she was doing a lot more than the average person, with a lot less energy and a lot you know with, with her situation looking a lot different than most people's. And when it came to going to a simcha, nowhere was too far. She'd have no problem getting in the car and driving to Muncie, you know from Farakway, as if it was around the corner. She was the first one at the simcha to be there, the last one to leave and dancing the entire time and dancing the entire time. So it's like she, she totally lived her life after she got sick the way she lived it before she got sick, which was just being an all around amazing, amazing person, friend, daughter, sister, like she just was the kind of person who you could always, always rely on. Anytime you needed something, she was the one who you didn't even have to ask, like she would offer. She was so thoughtful and so like, anticipating other people's needs and, and you know, especially with her family and and she was so generous and I remember, like you know, being out with her we were much younger and we probably had $10 to our names, you know and we were like shopping on central Avenue and like she wanted to buy gifts for her siblings 'm like I'm not spending my last ten dollars on that, but she was like she went so out of her way also to make like yontif special for her siblings. She would buy like cute props and cute little tchotchkes to put on the seder table, you know, to make a whole big deal out of kris yamsoth and all that kind of stuff and she like, really that's the way she lived the first 19 years of her life and that's the way she lived the next three years of her life, like it almost didn't matter. Like you know, she, she did a really, really good job of continuing life and I don't know, I didn't know at the time what her prognosis was and I don't know if she knew and I don't know if there was a prognosis, but she was living her life as if she'd lived forever. You's, you know, just college, you know it's a few year commitment jobs, like everything that she did she poured herself 100% into. And I don't know whether or not she knew that she was, you know, kind of living on borrowed time or not. I certainly didn't to that extent and we never spoke about that. But from the way she lived, you would think she was planning the next 100 years of her life. And maybe she was because she really, really believed that, that she would get through it. So now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like no, she actually might have been planning the next hundred years of her life, fully believing that. You know, that's just the type of person she was that's just the type of person she was Wow, wow.

Speaker 2 10:07

So as a 20 year old 21 year old girl, I guess how did you handle the death of a friend? It's not something that most 21 year olds have to contend with.

Speaker 3 10:12

I like, looking back now, seven years later, I'm like I don't know how that happened, like, what, like my when Miriam was in the hospital, so she went in on Rosh Hashanah Matzei Rosh Hashanah, I'm sorry and she was Niftar's the day before Tu B'Shvat. So she was there for a handful of months and in those months I happened to have been working in the city, not far from the hospital where she was, and I would go over all the time before well, not before work, but after work and then I would sleep at the chesed apartment that was a few blocks down and and then go to work straight the next day. Like this chesed apartment became my second home and I wanted to spend as much time there as I could and I was able to because I was single and because I was local and I didn't really have many commitments. So it was like a very, very special time that we were able to spend together. But for those few months, however long, it was like day, whether or not I realized it revolved around.

Speaker 3 11:07

Miriam how she was doing. The first text I sent in the morning was to her parents how was Miriam's night? The last text I sent to her, you know, before I went to sleep, was you know, how was her day? You know, originally it was that I was talking to Miriam herself but, you know, once things got went a little bit more downhill. I was in touch more with her parents and my day just revolved around it and it was like it was. It was.

Supporting a Friend Through Hospitalization

Speaker 3 11:32

I obviously wish the circumstances were different, but it was really really as close to be able to spend that time with her and to have that special time with her and to to just to see her, the way she interacted with everyone and the way she she conducted herself, regardless of what she was going through. So I don't know, like the thought of now I was 20 at the time and the thought of a 20 year old going through that seems so, so, like incredulous, like how is that even possible? Um, and I honestly I don't know. I don't know. And I actually remember when Miriam was first hospitalized, I got a text from a very respected and valued person who deals a lot with grief and someone who's you know after Miriam died and helped me personally. But she texted me oh, I heard you know Miriam's in the hospital just letting you know I'm here for you, which was really, really nice. She knew I was a close friend. But as soon as I saw that I was like in my head I was like I think she's dying Because, you know, if, like the grief person is reaching out to you to like say how can I help you, it's like, wow, this must be really bad and I was just crying and crying. I'm like it must be worse than I thought it was, you know.

Speaker 3 12:47

But then after that, we were like really able to. You know, once I got over that and I was able to move past that like really intense fear, it was really just like it was just what you did, it's what you do. Like it wasn't even like people like like I am not a humble person. I'm just not like if I do something that deserves credit, I have no problem taking credit for it. This wasn't something that, to me, like deserved credit.

Speaker 3 13:12

Like I know that if, god forbid, the roles were reversed, she would have done the same for me times a thousand. You know, like it wasn't even a question. Like you're there for, for your friends, for your best friends, for your sisters, like you're there for the people who you love the most. So it's not like a, it's not a question of like, can I make it work? It's like what do you mean? Like? This is her life right now.

Speaker 3 13:31

So this is my life right now, and it was my life for a while, and I put dating on hold for a while because I didn't have the head for it, and I put a lot of things on hold and I wouldn't have done it any other way, because this is what you do for the people that you love.

Speaker 3 13:51

And and again, like, the fact that I was single and able to have that time with her is something that I really, really thank Hashem for and I really treasure, because, you know, we have other friends that might've been really close with her in high school but then they got married right away. So they kind of, you know, lost touch a little bit. And then, when it came to when Miriam was in the hospital for those for those I don't know four months, you know they were able to come like once, twice, maybe three times, but there's only so much they could do, especially if they had kids, and I really felt like Hashem put me in this opportunity where, like I could do for her what she would have done for me, a fraction of it at least.

Speaker 2 14:19

It's very special because what I'm hearing is like you. Obviously very special because what I'm hearing is like you. Obviously you yourself have a very strong positive attribute of being a good friend, but what you're saying is that like part of what made you such a good friend is because of Miriam's like me dose and the way, the way she was, that you know that she would have done been like that in a second.

Speaker 3 14:41

She would have done what I did, but so much more and anticipated every single need before I even knew that I needed it. Like it's just I don't know the same way, like like you would do anything for your, for your mother, for your father, for your, for your sibling, for your kid Like it's not a question, it's not a favor, it's what you do because you want to do it, and that's exactly what it is. So I don't know, like it's a crazy thing for a 20 year old to go through. And you know, recently, when I heard about someone around that age passing away and I was thinking about our friends, I'm like gosh, I don't know how they're going through that. Then I'm like you went through that. But I mean, first of all, it's different when it's you. And also, like Baruch Hashem, I had such such a good support system of my family, the Holmans our friends are like my mentors, like everyone was in it.

Speaker 3 15:27

The entire community was in it. Everyone was davening so, so hard and everyone was so invested that it wasn't like it was, like it was a huge hug from everyone. I didn't feel like I was doing it alone. I felt like I had the support system that I needed, you know, and after she passed away, our friends group got even closer and you know, we, we really took care of each other and we still do.

Speaker 3 15:50

And it's you know, seven years later, um, we miss her like crazy and when something happens, your group of friends, yeah, yeah, so we, we were getting together every year on her yard site. It got a little bit harder when some of us moved to um artis trial, um, totally on our yard site, especially from, like our, our tight knit friend group. Someone will usually send a message or you know, if someone was an artist Ellen visited Miriam's cave air they'll message us like, very much part of our lives, very much part of my life, um, you know, very much part of our lives, very much part of my life, you know, whatever like I said, it helped that there were a lot, a lot of people who loved her and cared about her.

Speaker 2 16:35

What happened by your?

Speaker 3 16:35

wedding. That must have been hard for you to be engaged and get married without her.

Speaker 3 16:37

It was, it was, it was really hard I remember, like telling my husband, I'm like I just I can't believe that, like you never met her, like she's such a big part of my life she was back then. I got married like a year and a half after she passed away and seven years later she still is a huge part of my life and I. It was really hard, it was really really painful. And I had this bracelet, um, when I I don't know what it was, but at some point like in between I don't know what it was, but at some point, like in between, after she got sick in seminary, I was in Israel and I went to the Hodaya store and I bought her a bracelet that said, probably going to botch it up, but it said I think it said basically it was like a play on words, but in English it said like when the waters get tough, that's when the strong people are revealed Kishav, mayim, biskalim, hamaskalim, something I don't know.

Origins of the Mayrim Organization

Speaker 3 17:26

And I gave it to her and after she passed away, her parents gave me the bracelet back and I and I wore it to my wedding and it was like I felt, like I really I felt like she was there and you know, just throughout the wedding, like she came up in my mind multiple, multiple times and I, my husband has, since you know, we're married five and a half years now and my husband has said many, many times like I feel like I know her, I totally feel like I know her, and when it's around her yard site and you know, or something comes up or whatever, it is like he's really, really supportive and he feels like this is he never met her, but that's about it. Like he, everything else was done and I know that like they would have hit it off, they would have you know, but that it was a really, really painful thing that someone who was such a big part of my life is not going to meet someone who was also such a big part of my life.

Speaker 3 18:18

Right but you know, at the same time, the fact, like I said, the fact that I was able to spend all that time with her in the hospital because I wasn't married. You know, I would take that over, being married earlier so that my husband could know her. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 18:32

I have a sister that was NIFTA and she also her friends, like she had one friend also that like quit her job so that she could be there for my sister, like really, really dedicated, very amazing. And like I guess when I'm listening to you talk I'm like, okay, my sister was an exceptional person, I guess Miriam also was and I guess she also just has exceptional friends and it's amazing that you keep her alive because it's just it's the biggest nahama for you, for the family, for everyone. I think it's just so like amazing.

Speaker 3 19:02

I think also like part of part of and I don't know if you're in touch with your sister's friends or but part of what also keeps her alive is like that. I feel very, very fortunate to have a very close relationship with the Holmans and when I talk to Mrs Holman which I do quite often I feel like I'm talking to Miriam and when she talks to me she feels like, like we're, like we're back on her couch. In high school she wasn't on the couch, you know me, miriam and like her mom was sitting there. So we're all schmoozing like and and I feel so blessed to have that relationship and to have that connection, because it's like it's just, it's huge, like it keeps me so, so connected to to Miriam herself. You know, besides the fact that I love her family independently, just you know, that really makes a difference.

Speaker 2 19:48

Yeah, it does make a difference. That really is very, very special. So let's talk about Mayrim. I know that, like we said, her older sister was Niftar Nahama and they sort of the whole one's a little bit started some sort of Shabbaton, but Miriam, I know, is the one that really wanted to like make it into a big thing. So I guess if you could tell us a little bit about that, yeah, sure.

Speaker 3 20:08

so the Holman started, I don't know, maybe 18 years ago when, after Nahama passed away, miriam was like eight years old and they went to a retreat a a bereavement retreat and they really like, they felt like it was really, really beneficial, but it bothered them that it wasn't for kids, also because they had, I guess, three, I think three, other kids at the time, ranging, you know, from ages, I guess, nine to little kids. But they saw that like there needs to be support for the kids themselves. So the Holman started maybe 18 years ago.

Speaker 3 20:48

I'm not sure. A retreat every year in Camp Simcha where families would come together and they had a beautiful retreat. It was for parents and kids. It was for families that lost a child. Sorry, I should clarify, but the entire family was invited. It wasn't like just for the parents. It was very, very much recognized that child loss affects every person in the family. So there were things for siblings, things for parents and everything. As we got older, Miriam became more and more instrumental in running these Shabbatones, so it didn't have an official name.

Speaker 3 21:15

It was the Holman Retreat, the Bereavement Retreat, and when we were like in high school, miriam basically took over the Shabbatons running them with her father. And you know, when we were in 12th grade, a bunch of or 11th grade, a bunch of friends went upstate for the Shabbaton to babysit. You know, like Miriam like got her friends into it. I didn't go that year, I went later on, but it was something that Miriam was very, very passionate about and she had started. She especially as she got older she became kind of like uh, miriam was right under her sister right no, there's, there's a boy in between so there was no hum up.

Speaker 2 21:49

So how old was miriam when, when her sister was nifter?

Speaker 3 21:51

so nakama was a few days away from her 11th birthday.

Speaker 3 21:55

Miriam was, I guess, eight or nine, so gotta put the brothers somewhere in between, okay but totally old enough to remember her and yeah, yeah, yeah, very much so, very, very much so miriam was also like she kept her entire life a very, very strong connection with nahama, and I don't even know the half of it, but I I do know that like every year on her yard site she would get people to finish safer to hill, and like it meant a lot to her. She, she really she felt the loss of her sister and she felt her sister with her. You know there were pictures in her room of nahum and miriam together, so so, yeah, so miriam ended up really like taking over and she became kind of like a lifeline for girls, teenagers that lost a sibling, and she a few times she made some sort of like support group, unofficial, and you know she was in brooklyn, so she met up with a bunch of girls. They went out to eat for dinner and they, you know, she was just Brooklyn. So she met up with a bunch of girls. They went out to eat for dinner and they, you know, she was just the unofficial, like leader of the group and so it's like slowly became not just the Shabbaton but like, very, very minimally, miriam was doing, you know, some things on the side, but but then Miriam and her father had plans to make it into like a real year round program and they met with someone from an organization and they really, like, had stuff in the works and ideas to make it happen.

Speaker 3 23:08

This was in the summer and then Miriam was hospitalized. So it was very shortly after before they had a chance to actually implement anything and Miriam from the hospital was still working on it Like she wanted to. You know they had to tell her like now's not the time, like put it down, you know, but this was something that she was so passionate about. So after she passed away it was like a no brainer what her family was going to do. You know, leilo and Ishmasa. So they took their annual retreat that they had been doing for over probably 11 years and they turned it into a year round program, including the retreat, but also year round, and they called it May Rim, which means to lift people up, and it's a play on words. The same letters as Miriam and they started this incredible, incredible program in America, you know, in five towns in Brooklyn and Lakewood and Muncie, supporting families year round, with different events and different support groups and of course, the main highlight is the annual retreat.

Speaker 3 24:13

So the last year that Miriam did the retreat, I actually went on it with Miriam and with another friend, like we just went to help out, and it was really amazing to see Miriam in action and to see the way she connected to everyone and the way she helped people and the way that she was like so geschickt and so just made everything happen. This was like really like her baby. And so when her family started Mayrim, I got involved in Mayrim in America and whatever way I could and the first retreat I was that they did after Miriam passed away, I was married, my husband and I went to help out and it's something that I was very, very, um, like emotionally dedicated to. Then I moved to Israel about three and a half years ago and three years ago, by Miriam's yard site, I was talking to um a really close friend, natara Block, who was also a really close friend of Miriam's throughout high school and beyond, and I was saying, you know, like Miriam's yardstick's coming up, like what can we do?

Speaker 3 25:11

And she said she's like this is going to sound crazy, but what if we made like an event for bereaved people I don't know who yet, but like someone kind of do like a May Room event here, a one-time thing? I was like, okay, one-time thing we could do, so we decided that like doing an event for bereaved moms was like really scary.

Speaker 3 25:23

We were, like, you know, 22 years old and didn't feel like we had it. We had what it took. So we said we're going to do for bereaved siblings Plus, like that was Miriam's, like she was a bereaved sibling. So we put together some plans and we spread the word and made a flyer and we made a paint night for girls and women that lost a sibling, a brother or sister, and we did it in Ramada Skol and we had between like 20, 25 girls came and the family served, like you know, a nice spread and the feedback was absolutely like it was insane.

Creating Mayrim Israel

Speaker 3 25:57

People were like so blown away. You know, there were girls in seminary that came, so they don't necessarily have community here, they're not near family. There were young Americans who came who don't, who are not in your family, you know, so that's really difficult. And then there were also, like American Israelis who came who like don't exactly necessarily fit into the Israeli system, but they still need that support and we didn't even realize that like there was really such a need. They still need that support and we didn't even realize that like there was really such a need. So we, um, when we were advertising for that first event, someone reached out to me and said hi, do you also do events for moms? And I'm like we don't like do events. We're doing one event no-transcript.

Speaker 3 26:46

They must have been like so happy they were, like, they were so into it, so happy I mean, we couldn't have done it without them, first of all because it's their organization, also because they fund the whole thing. They were, like, you know, when the first mom's event we we showed like a slideshow of Miriam, you know, and I spoke a little bit just to introduce people to the concept and again the feedback was overwhelming, like, like again, we didn't know that it was such a void. We just decided, like, let's do something, you know, because her yard site's coming up, let's do a one-time event and see what happens. And see what happens. And then what happened is is that, you know, we've had three years now of running events throughout the year, for we do different types of events. So we do events for girls and women that lost a sibling that's usually like teenage, seminary age and above, and then we do events for moms that lost a child.

Speaker 3 27:37

And then when Mr Holman is in town, which is fairly often, we try, when we can, to make an event for couples, because obviously the fathers also need a lot of support. But that's not something that I can coordinate, you know, by the moms and the siblings. Events like Atara and I were there, we're we're facilitating it and we can't do that for the fathers. So a bunch of times when Mr Holman's come, we've done like a couple's event and it's been. It's been phenomenal, it's been phenomenal. And now we have people asking us if we can do events for younger children, if we can make events kind of like, segment them by like what kind of loss or how old the child was, you know, and we're always open to new ideas, but at this point we have a database of probably over 70 women who lost children, all English speaking and the.

Speaker 3 28:23

It's like it's such a stress for Tara and I to be able to do it Instantly the impact that you're making on people's lives and how much you're helping them. And so many people have expressed to us how special it is just to come out for a night and feel pampered. And there are some people who want to come out and they want to talk. There's some people who want to come out and they don't want to talk and they don't talk. I mean, they talk but not about their loss.

Speaker 2 28:44

Right.

Speaker 3 28:44

But they all, like unanimously, express the same sentiment that just being in the same room with people who they know have gone through you know, that loss, the siblings say this, the mothers say this, the father, everyone says this is so powerful in and of itself, is so powerful in and of itself. And we're not there to be a support group. And you know, obviously there are friendships that have been made through these events that are amazing. Amazing that they've really become, you know, like each other's anchor. But most of our events are good food, a fun activity or like a cathartic activity. So it'll be like we do a lot of art stuff, We'll do a food competition, whatever it is. You know, at Sarsimetshiva we had a speaker, so that was like a little bit more intense, but even that the feedback was just amazing. People just love coming out and having the space, if they want to, to talk and if they don't want to, not to talk but to know that they're with people who have been through what they've been through in their own way.

Speaker 2 29:40

This week you had? Didn't you have an event this week for those that lost their children were soldiers, our soldiers.

Speaker 3 29:47

No, we didn't have that, did we? Did? I mean, obviously, unfortunately, there's a lot more bereaved families now in Israel in the past year plus, and I actually spoke with a few soldiers, moms who when I told them about Mayrim, they were like really, really into it and they were like this sounds amazing, this sounds like something I can really benefit from. I spoke with them more recently and then the event that came up, the Hanukkah event. Just timing wise, it didn't work out for a few people, but I can see in the future attracting, you know, and if the group is big enough, then we're like we would do an event for, exclusively for mothers who lost soldiers, or mothers who lost babies.

Speaker 3 30:23

And that's what one of the people at our last event came up to us and said like you know, she loves the events and they do so much for her. And she asked, like would you be interested in making events for people who, let's say, lost like little little children? Because obviously it's a different experience losing a baby than losing an adult child. And she, you know, and we told her that that's something that we're totally open to. And she, you know, and we told her that that's something that we're totally open to, and we have people that come from not just Yerushalayim I mean, our events are in Yerushalayim, because that's where Tara and I are and that's most central but we have people who are coming from Moshe Avin.

Speaker 3 30:54

We have people who came from B'nai Rock. We had a couple who came from Tzvat, for one of you know, our first couples event Like this is, and they made a vacation out of it. You know they, they made it their getaway, but it was around this and and it's, you know, there's really we've learned that there's really really a need for Americans in Israel and American Israelis to have that kind of support and you know, just, the Israeli culture is different than the American one, so the grief culture is going to look different as well, obviously and for people to be able to come together with people who speak their language, literally and figuratively, it's just proven to be like, really, really priceless.

Speaker 2 31:35

So you must be pretty amazing. How do you like a young, a young girl I could call you that because you're pretty young, whatever you want, not as really. And yet, like all these bereaved siblings and parents, mothers, they feel comfortable with you, so how do you do that?

Speaker 3 31:54

So I want to just preface by saying it's not just me, it's me and Atara. Like Atara is absolutely amazing. She's not the one on the call, so, which is why I can say this she's incredible, is absolutely amazing. She's not the one on the call, so, which is why I can say this, she's incredible. She happens to be a social worker herself with a lot of experience in grief. So she's like you know, if, like something comes up, she's always like, yeah, tara, like get involved.

Speaker 3 32:13

You know, but the women are so, so appreciative. You know, like I said, when we were, when Tara first had the idea let's make an event, we were like, oh, we can't go near bereaved moms, like that's terrifying, you know. Like they don't want these. Like you know, little 22 year old fishers Like, yeah, they do, they do because people will take support from wherever they can get it. And it's been such a big lesson for me like that.

Speaker 3 32:34

And I've become close with a lot of the moms and when I see them at the events, we hug each other and we're so excited. And after I had my baby, they got so excited. I got so many miles. I was like they, they felt invested because I'm someone who they appreciate and I appreciate them. And it's just, you become close with people because they end up sharing their experiences and the fact that you know Baruch Hashem Atara and I have not been in that place it's not a deterrent, like at the events. You know, we, we set up everything and then we'll usually step aside. We don't want to be in anyone's space. A lot of times the moms will invite us.

Speaker 1 33:08

Hey, why don't you come do the?

Speaker 3 33:09

project with us and, yeah, I have no problem sitting with them and I'll usually schmooze with them, but at the same time, we're very cognizant of the fact that, like, some people only feel comfortable talking to people who have experienced and my job is to facilitate that, not to be there. So, if that means sitting in the kitchen while everyone's in the dining room, amazing. If there's an issue, they know where to find me. You know like, and it's hard, also like it's not. I think that. And also you meet people and you see that behind every big name and big face and whatever is, is a person who's suffering a lot and who's really, really grateful to receive support. And there are so many people who have come to events who, like I, had heard their stories from news, from friends, from whatever. And then you meet them and you're like, oh my gosh, like that's them.

Speaker 3 33:51

And it's like what that's them Like and they're really suffering and to be able to be. You know, the we have. It's very interesting because the Holmans have a rule on their retreat. They typically don't let families who like experienced the loss within the year come and they have their reasons and they're all really good reasons.

Speaker 2 34:10

They also don't let anyone speak. That didn't lose a child, correct, correct. It's amazing what you're doing, yeah yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 34:19

So we have events where women lost their children over 20 years ago.

Speaker 3 34:23

And we also had an event once where the women were going around and they were each saying like their name and sharing some information and one of the women had, like, just passed her daughter, shloshim, and it was like it was so shocking because I didn't think that people at that stage would even be, but people are really, really thirsty for that. I had someone reach out to me. I had just landed, after being in America for Pesach. I landed in Israel and I got a call from an unknown number. So I answered it and it was a lady who had just lost her son, I think Rosh Chodesh's son and she said I heard about this organization, I want to get involved and I'm like you sure you want to get involved. She's like, yeah, I really want to get involved and she's been to every event since and the feedback that she gives she's like you don't understand what you're doing for me and she came so soon after she lost her son.

Speaker 3 35:09

At the end of the day, like this is they become part of this really, really dreadful community that no one can ever fathom being a part of, and to be able to give them that support. It's not. You know, I talk to Mrs Ullman usually after every event and I'll just tell her how it went. She looks like thank you so much, thank you so much. I'm like you don't have to thank me. Like this gives me so much.

Speaker 3 35:34

Sipa Kanepesh and I know Attara feels the same way and it's like it's instant gratification.

Speaker 3 35:49

It's like you see, as you're doing the event, you see the women walk in and go, like you see it, and you see them leaving feeling different, feeling uplifted, feeling empowered, feeling good, feeling understood, and it's like it's a no brainer.

Impact of Friend-Group Bereavement

Speaker 3 35:52

And when Atara and I do events or planning the activity, we're always thinking about like what would Miriam have done? And after every, mrs Ullman could tell you, probably after almost every event that we've done, and I spoke to her. I said like Miriam was there, like she would have done this, down to the T, down to this type of sushi, this type of activity, this type of tablecloth like this is exactly what she would have done and I know she would have and had she had the opportunity to be able to do this for people you know siblings, for moms, for anyone, she did what she was able to and then she had really big plans that unfortunately couldn't come into fruition and to and then she had really big plans that unfortunately couldn't come into fruition and everything we do it's like exactly the way that Miriam would have wanted it and it's really really special for us as friends to still have that connection with her also.

Speaker 2 36:34

In that way, I think again, it like attests to her character that she has such wonderful friends and such wonderful family. That's for sure, that's for sure.

Speaker 3 36:41

For sure.

Speaker 2 36:42

I just finished I mean whatever it's in the final stages of editing. I hope you know a book for bereaved parents, right, I did it together with you know, glenn Holman. But I spoke to so many people and there were some people and especially in Eretz Israel, there was a few people in Eretz Israel a big favor by opening up. I felt like like I was doing them the favor. I would ask one simple question, whatever, and they would go on for on and on and on and on. Or if it was through emails, like you think, who wants to type so much? But these long emails back and I was like, oh my gosh, like there's so many people that really need to talk and like they're just not finding the right people to talk to. So I I really get what you're saying, that mothers, you know, really need it.

Speaker 3 37:27

It's so true. And listen, I know for myself I can't speak for a Tara, but you know it can be very emotionally draining, especially as Tara and I are both mothers ourselves and when we do the mom's events there have been so many times where I'll just walk into the next room just tears streaming down my face. And it's so hard to be in a room with so many people who are in so much pain and it's not like like these are. A lot of them are very happy people. You wouldn't know that they're in so much pain, but because we do know them and because they're there that night we know that they're there for a reason.

Speaker 3 37:57

And when I look around at a room of 20 women and I'm like they've all gone through this, Like it, it, it's hurt so, so much. But then you think about, you know, like I can't take away their pain and I we can't change anything about what happened. But if we can be a little bit of light, you know, we had a girl come to one of our siblings events once and she walked in and she was like, oh my gosh, I've never felt like this before. She didn't even know anyone at the event, she just walked in. I think for some of these girls probably, it's like they know that no one's going to be at the event. Asking them, how many siblings do you have? And they have to like, grapple, what number are you in your family? You know any of these things that are so normal to come up in day-to-day conversation.

Speaker 3 38:34

But people who have gone through this type of loss, I mean, as you know, are so much more sensitive to so people walk in and they feel like I have a community and it's just, it's unbelievable and it's emotionally draining, but it's unbelievable and it's, it's a schuss, it really, really is. It gives me a lot, a lot of Sipa Kanephesh. It keeps me connected to Miriam, to the Holmans, to the bereaved community that I was very, very minimally connected with before Miriam died. I helped her a little bit with the retreat that last year, but that was pretty much it. Also, I will never claim to understand the pain that a bereaved sibling goes through, because I didn't lose a sibling, I lost a best friend. She was like a sister to me, Definitely, you know.

Speaker 3 39:19

I so to be able to give to that community that again. Thank God I'm not a part of but I feel distant cousins with because they're definitely, you know, I experienced the loss of someone really, really close to me. It's something amazing and I'm grateful that Atara came up with the idea to even do this, because I never would have. And Baruch Hashem has really snowballed into something so much bigger than we could have imagined at the time and it's something that we intend to keep on, keep on continuing, because the need is really, really there and the feedback, you know saying that, that you're not a humble person, but I think that after this past 45 minutes, I have to disagree with you because, if you wouldn't, be, humble, you wouldn't be able to connect to all these people.

Speaker 2 40:07

The people would feel a certain sense of like you just don't get me. And yet the fact that you could really understand that you don't understand and you could be sensitive enough, even though knowing that you really can't know, I think is, in a certain sense, a simple humbleness, and I think that's why you're so successful.

Speaker 3 40:25

Right, and you know we try to, just, like I said, do our thing and stay in the in the background. And you know, I went to one of the women who, like I became close with. It was her son's like second yard site and they made an event at their house and I went and she was so appreciative to see me and I felt like what do you mean? Like I know you, like I'm connected to you, I'm like such a in such a personal way, like of course I'm going to be there and again, like we know our place. But at the same time, people are much less snobby than you think they are. Most people are not super exclusive. If you're doing something for them and if they see that you're genuine and that you really care, the fact that you've never been through that loss is almost like secondary, as long as you don't pretend that you have been. And you know, try, you know they.

Speaker 3 41:07

Sometimes the women will like joke about all the like crazy things that people have said to them over Shiva. You know, and sometimes people will come into a Shiva house just from what I've overheard from these ladies and like try to like insert themselves, like connect it, like I know how you feel because I lost it's like no, no-transcript, really really need it and it's just so painful to see. But knowing that you can do even a little something to alleviate the pain is already like forget an ahamah them, like it's an ahama to me. It really is almost like a favor to me, which is why, when the hormones are like thank you so much, thank you I'm like this was like this was kind of selfish, also Like this is just as much for me as it is for anyone else. So this is great, you know, it's a win-win for everyone.

Speaker 2 42:17

Wow, Okay, Unbelievable. Really, it's amazing. I guess, I don't know. I like we. Before we end off, is there anything um anything important, any messages that we should end off with?

Speaker 3 42:31

I think that you know there's two things there's the being a very close friend of someone who passed away, and then there's the being in the position where you know Baruch Hashem I'm co-running the Meron branch in Israel. In terms of like losing a close friend, I think that people like don't always recognize just how painful it is, and not even for me, because for me, like I had a coveted place in Merim's life and people knew that and I was there the entire Shabbat. I happened to have, like you said, your sister's friend quit her job. I happened to have been like I quit my job and then I was in between jobs. It like it worked out really well, but I was there the whole time and people recognized me, whereas other ones of our friends, who maybe got married right away or drifted apart a little bit, they were in so much pain but people didn't realize that they even had that close relationship to Miriam. And I think that, like you know, when, when people go through loss, even girls that we weren't, who weren't particularly friends with Miriam in high school you know we were a small grade of 30, but we weren't all best friends Miriam happened to have been exceptionally nice to everyone, but when we would make the yard site events, like the most random people would come because at the end of the day, like everyone is affected, it hits really really close to home.

Speaker 3 43:42

And when I hear about someone, lowly new, passing away now and I think about their friends, like I try to reach out to their friends and say like, first of all, I'm really sorry, that stinks, and especially if it's a very close friend, like they don't get, they don't sit, shiva, they don't, they don't go through that whole mourning process and they're not necessarily recognized.

Speaker 3 44:00

So I just feel like you know, it's a really, really unique and horrible experience to lose a friend, especially a really, really close friend who's more like a sister and just I know how much it was appreciated to me when people actually recognized it and reached out to me, even though I wasn't the one sitting Shiva. You know that's the being a friend part. And then, in terms of running Mayrim, like there's so much you can do for community, whether you're part of it or not. Like there's so much you can do for community, whether you're part of it or not. And when there's a need, people, just when someone steps in, they are forever, forever grateful. And again like even if it seems like an intimidating audience, and not like people that you, you know normally interact with willingly, because I'm 20 years younger and I don't have anything to say.

Finding Purpose in Continuing Miriam's Legacy

Speaker 3 44:44

You know you'd be people would be surprised at how appreciated it really is and and I, like I said, I really really feel grateful that a tower came up with the, with the idea, and that the Holman's fund may rim, and that, you know, we obviously couldn't do it without them. The fact that these women all come to our events free and there's a sushi bar and there's salads and there's soup and and they come and, like I said, they just feel pampered and without paying a penny, so it's just really really amazing what the Holmans have done with their pain. And I know, like I said, when we do our May Rim events, it's always like wow, mary would have loved this. And that's how it is with the whole May Rim that they they're doing amazing, amazing things in America, you know, in all different communities and their Shabbatotas and their support groups and their meetups and their Rosh Chodesh for all different ages.

Speaker 3 45:33

And I just I think it's amazing that Miriam was able to leave behind a legacy that was so clear on what she was passionate about, that it wasn't like do we do this, do we do that it was like no, we haven't even started this, we're going to continue it and that's exactly what we're doing. I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to, you know, go on to the podcast and share. It's very cathartic.

Speaker 2 45:54

It's really, really amazing and I really like I so much relate to what you're saying Because even though, like you know, like I lost a brother, a sister, I lost my both my parents when they were young, like I went through plenty of loss and then I was married and with you know, young children and whatever and are not young children, and I lost friends, two friends, and like when the first one was left, I was like one second. I don't have a place over here. I never really knew her family, I never really knew her children. So it was just like, oh my gosh, like I'm lost. I don't know how to grieve a friend. How do I grieve a friend? It's so much easier to grieve when you're in it. It might be more painful, but it's also easier. And losing those friends and you know what, till today, I just kind of like I just shut myself down. I'm like I can't, I don't know what to do with the pain.

Speaker 3 46:39

So just like turn it off because, because my family's so close with the Holmans and I was so close with Miriam, like I will forever, forever be connected to them and for me, like that was such a, I felt like I had a place. Even though it wasn't that place, I had a place and that's why I really felt like more, like I had it easier in that way than other ones of my friends who really didn't have a place. Maybe they didn't have such a. They were very close to her but really didn't have a place. Maybe they didn't have such a. They were very close to her but they didn't have a checklist to her family. So then it's like awkward. It's like do we stay? Do they want to hear from you or is it more painful? You know we have, we, miriam, had a had a very close friend in high school who named her daughter after Miriam. I know that was like very, very um, that was very, very meaningful for the Holmans.

Speaker 3 47:20

But I remember after Miriam died, mrs Holman said to me she's like I can't imagine what you're going through losing a friend. I'm like are you insane? What are you saying? Like what? Because she had gone through this crazy, crazy loss. But, like you're saying, when there's no clear place and there's no clear process, you know it's just very uncharted territory. And the fact that you had those crazy close experiences and then lost two friends, it's like where do you put yourself? And again, I feel blessed that I knew where to put myself, because I always felt like I had a place in the Holman family and I still do, and I consider Mrs Holman a second mother. She considers me another daughter.

Speaker 3 48:00

You know, like, so I never had that awkward stage of like, do I keep in touch? Do I send her my VARD invitation? It was like, yeah, I wanted her to meet my husband before we got engaged. You know I needed her stamp of approval, you know, so, like it's a different experience, but it's it's.

Speaker 3 48:14

It's a very unique experiences and and I kind of regret not keeping more of a study journal back in that time where I can look back and be like, wow, how did we go through that? Because now time like like blunts the edges a little bit and blurs it and and but, but by doing things and by staying connected to the family, I feel like we really keep things alive. And I don't know if your friends were from like high school or whatever. But I found that like even just getting together with a few friends. And you know, last year um Pesach time um Atara and I and another friend who live in Israel, who was also really close friends with Miriam, went back for Pesach and we got together with our whole chavra basically it was like 10 people and I was like I was really feeling Miriam's loss there. You know, when we were driving there, listening to music and like we all left our kids at home, it was just like we had a ton of fun.

Speaker 3 49:01

And when we got there I said like something felt like it was missing. I said like, guys, can we at least like, maybe when we make brahas let's just do a like. And her loss was really, really felt there, and not just for me, from everyone who was there, even from people who didn't necessarily keep up with her so much. It's just, it's not the same, but we all had that experience of losing a friend, so we all have that connection and we'll be a closer grade because of that than we would have been had we not been bonded by, you know, a really, really tragic loss of one of the most popular, beloved people in the grade.

Speaker 2 49:33

Well, it's amazing. Thank you so, so much. I you know, Harnashe, I'm going to continue to have an Aaliyah. She must be having a lot of Aaliyahs from everything that everyone is doing and thank you, thank you.

Closing Thoughts on Grieving Friends

Speaker 1 49:43

Everyone is doing and thank you, thank you, thank you so so much appreciate it you've just listened to an episode of the relief from grief podcast with miriam riviet, brought to you by mayrim. For more episodes, visit the mayrim website at wwwmayrimorg. Help us reach more people who might benefit from this podcast. If you know someone who could find it helpful, please share it with them. If you have questions or comments for the speaker, or if you'd like to suggest a guest for the podcast, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at relieffromgriefatmayrimorg. We look forward to having you join us in the next episode.