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The Grief Journey By Mayrim
When I launched Relief from Grief in 2022, I thought it would be a short-term project. But the feedback was overwhelming:
•Grievers found inspiration and comfort.
•Listeners who hadn’t experienced loss gained meaningful insights into grief.
•Professionals shared how valuable the podcast was for their clients.
I realized this podcast was meeting a deep, ongoing need — and I was determined to continue serving that need.
I’m honored to partner with Mayrim, an organization dedicated to supporting families who have lost a child. Mayrim is the perfect partner because its founders and members understand the pain of loss firsthand. It’s my hope that each guest shares encouragement and understanding, helping listeners feel less alone. Together, we can find hope and comfort — one moment at a time.
The Grief Journey By Mayrim
Rabbi Akiva Sutofsky: The Lump in His Throat
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Rabbi Akiva Sutofsky was living a fulfilling life — a beloved school therapist, a devoted father, and especially close to his youngest son, Yitzy.
One day, Yitzy complained of a sore throat. When he looked in the mirror with a flashlight, he noticed a large lump. The doctor diagnosed it as an infection and prescribed antibiotics — but they didn’t help. Nor did the next round.
And so, the Sutofsky family’s routine life was turned upside down as they began the harrowing journey of cancer with their beloved son and brother, Yitzy.
Yitzy was an intuitive, kind-hearted boy who easily connected with others. The entire community rallied around him, davening with love and urgency. He celebrated his bar mitzvah in a shul in Philadelphia, not far from the hospital where he was receiving treatment. And then, he began to speak with startling spiritual clarity:
“Don’t be sad,” he would say. “My mission in this world is coming to an end. But if you ever feel down, do mitzvos and daven for my neshama. Maybe that will help ease your pain.”
Yitzy was niftar surrounded by his family. The entire community mourned with them, deeply impacted by his brief but powerful life.
In this episode, Rabbi Sutofsky shares the story of Yitzy’s illness and petirah, as well as the pain, faith, and growth that emerged from his grief.
YouTube: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsK24OSmIYG_XWzeplhfmb8LJcWKphITh&si=untn3fmHLLaEEFNm
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Questions or feedback? Email me at: podcast@mayrim.org
Introduction to Relief from Grief
Speaker 1Welcome to the Relief from Grief podcast, hosted by Mrs Miriam Rebiet and brought to you by Mayrim. Mayrim is an organization dedicated to supporting families who have experienced the loss of a child. It was founded by Eloi Nishmat's, nechama Liba and Miriam Holman. Despite her illness, miriam devoted herself to addressing the needs of parents and siblings grappling with the immense pain of losing a child. She felt this loss deeply, having experienced it firsthand when her older sister, nechama Liba, passed away. Mehrim continues to uplift and expand on the work Miriam began, a mission carried forward by her parents with great dedication. If you have any questions or comments for the speaker, or if you'd like to suggest a guest for the podcast, please email us at relieffromgrief at mayrimorg.
Speaker 2Hi everybody. Thank you so much for joining me here today on the Relief from Grief by Mayrim Podcast. Today we have on here from Pittsburgh Rabbi Stefatsky. He is the therapist of the Hillel Academy in Pittsburgh and he also has his private practice. So thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3Sure, sure Happy to.
Speaker 2And yeah, I guess, why don't you start with your story about your son?
Meeting Rabbi Stefatsky and Yitzi
Speaker 3Okay, so my son Yitzi, or our son Yitzi he was our youngest boy. Five children, he's the youngest and he was an unbelievable son and basically he was, you know, really the glue I start from anywhere, but was really the glue I start from anywhere, but he's the glue of the family and he was an unbelievable athlete, unbelievable learner, the coolest kid, the nicest kid, the sweetest kid, really just a very, very unique kid. He used to go birdwatching every single week ever since COVID. That was one of the things the science teacher sent home. Try to like look at birds and he could hear probably 20, 30 chirps and tell you exactly you know what bird it is. Just such an unbelievable, brilliant kid. Yeah, just loved learning, loved diving, and I was very, very close to them because he was the only boy home at the time. All of a sudden I was in Yeshiva and all the three girls weren't home and connected on many, many different levels learning and nature and sports and we were really besties, you know, best friends.
Speaker 3And one day his throat was hurting him and he took my wife's phone to the bathroom and he looked in the mirror with the flashlight and he had this very weird swollen thing in the back of his throat. So he went to the doctor. It looked, it looked very strange, the doctor. Doctor said, oh it's, it's a swollen tonsil, um, and then we took antibiotics and it was hurting him. You know, every time we went somewhere he would find like a cold compress, like lay his face on. It was like it was hurting him.
Speaker 3And then we went back a few weeks later. They said, oh, it's not working, we'll switch antibiotics. And then they said, oh, go to an ENT. And the ENT said, oh, it looks like an ear infection of sorts and sort of infection. So he gave us different antibiotics and then, after it didn't go down and it was definitely bothering him a lot, my wife took him to the doctor and they said you may want to go to the hospital, it could be cancer, that's what. So, yeah, I mean that's. And after that I could just go on forever if you want. I mean, basically we went to the hospital.
Diagnosis and Treatment Journey
Speaker 2How old was he? I don't remember if he said it or not.
Speaker 3Yeah, so you'd see, when he found, when he was diagnosed, he was 12. And then he was NIFJ. I mean, 10 months later he was NIFJ, so he was 13. But yeah, so we went to the doctor, doctor, and he ended up having a cancer called rhabdomyosarcoma. I'm not the biggest expert in it, my wife knows everything about it. I kind of went into more of like a freeze mode, you know like, but rhabdomyosarcoma he had different mutations and different. It just really ended up being like one in a million what he had and it was not a good.
Speaker 3I mean, they gave hope in the beginning. You know, they they give it their all. It's a very, very intense treatment. It's a 42 week, uh, treatment of very, very harsh chemotherapy and also radiation. Yeah, it was very tough. I mean it was very, very tough and in the beginning actually we had this like a major appointment with the doctors, you know when they let us know exactly what he had. And we already knew because it's on the app. It goes on the UPMC app, you know, your health insurance app. It's already there. So my wife already knew.
Speaker 3But we went for this major meeting One second, you found out that he has cancer from the app I guess because what they put it in your records you know like it's, it's in there so my wife basically knew I mean, maybe she know exactly or whatever, but you know we knew going in, you know they already, they already told us, like you know, they know it's cancer, which kind.
Speaker 3They were unsure. But we had this like four like this, like I don't know, a few hour meeting, maybe like an hour or two, where they went through every say, everything about the cancer and the treatment, everything that can happen during chemo, and my wife is my wife is very engaged the doctor was taking notes and I was. Just. Me and disney were just like hugging each other and yeah, he came in with you to this meeting.
Speaker 3He had to hear I don't know why I mean the doctors asked him to be there or they just assumed he would be there if he was there wow I mean I think it was over.
Speaker 3I mean I'm not, you know, we were just like kind of frozen together. But really at the end it was really really terrible. Like I don't know why they had him in there. But they said, and because of the chemo he won't be able to have any children. So like um, you'd see, definitely he mean he heard it he wasn't exactly sure what they would say the chance, whatever, but it's a totally different story. But we ended up asking the whole shiloh, because you could do a surgery that could preserve you know something. It was like a whole. You know it's a whole different part of the story. But yeah, so Yitzi was unbelievable.
Speaker 3We started treatments and basically my wife was like a rock, mom was a rock. She was, I mean, like I guess you never want to see anybody have to go into this type of gear, you know, but like she was just like nonstop committed, 24-7. And he kind of moved into my bed, I moved into his room and my wife just took care of him the whole time. And I mean there were times when it was, you know it was okay. You know, in the beginning it was very, very rough because they forgot to put him on a certain anti-nausea medication unbelievable oversight, crazy. And he was very, very weak, lost a lot of weight, but he had weeks where he was good. You know we would go out, we would you know we hung out a lot.
Speaker 3We would go take walks and, you know, find snakes, and you know, I mean he couldn't really do sports, he was too shrach, you know, very weak, but he definitely gave it his all. You know, he really, really wanted to.
Speaker 2How long was he sick for before he was nipped in?
Speaker 3He was sick, I think, for about 10 months. For about 10 months, your 10 months, and he your wife fall apart.
Speaker 2Was her like falling apart harder, since she was like had to say she stayed so strong during when he was sick? Say again like because you keep on describing her as a rock. While he was sick, when he was actually nifter, was her falling apart like like very, very huge and intense I mean she, she fell apart because her son was lifted.
Speaker 3You know, I don't think it was any more. You know, if anything I would say it's almost like I mean, there's a default that it's just super painful and terrible to lose a child. You know, no one should ever have to go through that ever. And I think we definitely, um, we definitely not suffered, but we definitely, you know, we went through that. That.
Yitzi's Bar Mitzvah Story
Speaker 3The more you know the morning period, you know, I feel is for sure, I think you know, you know, and it was actually very it was excruciating because you know, we, we took care of, about, but my, I don't think it was extra hard because she put so much into it, if anything. My wife said very khashoggi, she said that obviously it's super painful but it's a very beautiful thing, to painfully beautiful thing to be able to be with someone from the second they're born to the second they're nifted. It's like you have someone's whole life that you took care of, from care, from beginning to end. It's a very, it's a certain, I don't know, closure or healing part to it. You know, my mom is there for his um, his tia seshama. We were in the room for that. So like we were there and my wife is there this whole life, you know, from birth until his last breath. So, yeah, I think that was almost like a nakama I would. It wasn't even extra more painful. I think it was probably more like a Nechama. You know, that's what I think. I mean. He also said a lot of things at the end of his life that gave us a Nechama, you know. He also said a lot of female. Sure, he wants to like a lot of stories, but he had 40, so basically, we had chemotherapy first and then went to Philadelphia for radiation and it was.
Speaker 3That was a very, very beautiful experience. You know what I mean. It was very, very, so much chesed, unbelievable, chesed, unbelievable. We stayed at the Ronald McDonald House in Philadelphia and it's basically unbelievable. It's like a 120 story, like hotel and everything is free. You're like the rooms are free, the food's free, they have a game room, they have busing to the hospital every 20 minutes for free. It's like I went, I went to the front desk. I'm like I don't know if you know if you're Jewish or like, but something called Chesed and like this whole house is like a house of chesed. Now, of course, she ended up being Jewish, as you knew what I was talking about.
Speaker 2But like.
Speaker 3I mean High Lifeline RCCS also amazing, you know, next level, but like this is just like such a unique experience. So my wife stayed with him for seven weeks. I went back to Pittsburgh during the week and I went to Philadelphia for Shabbos and then we had a Bar Mitzvah we could talk about that. But he so at about 40 weeks we actually thought that he was going to be okay. I mean not okay. We thought we'd get through the whole. Basically he'll go on maintenance, you know like he'll get through the whole thing. His scans will be all clear, and then you just go on maintenance the whole thing. His scans would be all clear, and then you just go on maintenance, you know, wait for relapse, you know. But like we thought we were talking about if he's going to do Shiva and stuff like that.
Speaker 2Maintenance mean like remission.
Speaker 3Yeah, remission. Yeah, we thought for a minute at week number like 38, we were like wow, like we're almost done, like scans were pretty good and like the doctors were happy and like he was feeling good. We told my going to yeshiva, he wanted to go to denver. We thought we should go to philly, he wanted to go to denver, my other son, denver. I remember walking to shoot with him, like wow, like we're actually handling go to yeshiva. But then his, his eye looked a little weird, whatever. And I said, oh, it looks weird. He went to the doctor and the cancer was basically like mummish everywhere, like everywhere, everywhere, like the list was so long where the cancer was, like I said, I told my wife that she just tell us where the cancer is, not, you know, like his pinky, you know that's it everywhere else. So I and I didn't know how to tell him. I didn't know. I didn't know how to tell him. I didn't know how to tell him that the doctor, almost like they, didn't feel like it was worth it to even go on with treatment because we really couldn't do anything anymore. I didn't know how to tell him and I slept in his room in the hospital bed that night with him.
Speaker 3I got up in the morning, I came home, I went to Rite Aid with one of my son-in-laws and when I got back home he was on the phone with my daughter and my daughter said Daddy, take the phone. He's saying crazy things. So I said Izzy, what's going on? I said, daddy, I love you, hashem loves you. We can't take it out on Hashem, we can't be mad at anybody. But I finished my mission on this world and I mean he kept it going on. My daughter typed it while he was saying it because we don't want to forget what he was saying. I can't look at the text, it's too painful to look at it, but he just said like he did.
Speaker 3He did a lot of chuvah. My wife just told me on the phone today that she was listening to the recordings of him where he was saying how he was very upset that maybe people thought he was more chashid than he was and he was like he's. You know, if someone would give him a million dollars, he would take the million dollars instead of learning, you know, and he feels so terrible about that. And then you know he can't be mad at Hashem, you know, he just is like he asked for a safer turtle. He asked that we give him stock every day. He asked that we give stock every day. He asked anytime it's hard for us to do mitzvah, we should think about him to give us chizah.
Speaker 2Like you know, he really was a very. How much was this before he was niftah?
Speaker 3I mean he was always like super unique, you know, but like these type of things. Probably Probably the last, maybe like three, four weeks, where he kind of knew, knew. I think he really understood that he is going to die. He knew that he's going to be lifted. We had a whole mindset with his name. We asked him about changing his name but he said not to change his name. He should be able to learn whatever. That was our last ditch effort. Basically, I think he really just I remember he told my daughter, he, I mean, he told us things I want to say patera, I'm scared to go to shemayim, who am I going to know there? He said what do you mean? You know? We said his daddy's there and you know my grandparents are there and you know, yeah, you know it's gonna be, it's gonna be so nice. And yeah, he was.
Speaker 2I got very so you never told him like, oh, don't talk like that. You just kind of validated him and tried to answer his questions.
Speaker 3Yeah, well, I, you know I don't want to tell him not to talk like that because he's going to die. You know I'm not going to give. You know we definitely gave him. We did everything for him and we tried everything. You know, pchai Leithar, rccs, different types of medicines, we did everything. We did everything. But you know, I mean during those first nine, ten months where he wasn't on the plate, so every time we'd bring it up we would say Maissa, today you're alive. You know, with Hashem, tomorrow it'll be the same and we have to day by day you know whatever it's a word I heard, actually, but you know, one day at a time.
Speaker 2Wow.
Family's Grief Experience
Speaker 3And that's what we did. And then at the end it was like a very it was very, I would say very, not abrupt, but like it went from like pretty good to like very bad. You know so, but my wife really always thought the whole time that it was such a severe cancer with very terrible relapse, you know. You know, if it relapses it's like basically it's over anyway and it usually, and what he had he had all these different fusion positive mutations. It was really just not good. But yeah, he was a very, very special, very good boy. I mean very special boy, unbelievable boy.
Speaker 2So should we talk about his.
Speaker 3What's that?
Speaker 2Should we talk about his bar mitzvah?
Speaker 3Yes, well, I'll tell you Yitzi, he was such an unbelievable kid. First of all, he made such an impact. You know, like I'm very competitive in sports and my oldest son is like an unbelievable athlete and his name is Yehuda and Yitzi was like Yehuda 2.0, because Yitzi was like just unbelievable. And at Shiva we got letters from non-Jewish mothers who went to the game just to watch the best kid be the nicest kid.
Speaker 2Really.
Speaker 3Yeah, their sons weren't even playing. They went to see Yitzi when was this Pittsburgh. Yeah, pittsburgh it's called Squirrel Hole Baseball. It's like a lot of teams have all-star games, travel stuff, if stuff like out of town you can do these type of things, you know.
Speaker 3So, like people came to watch him, you know people. You know they want to rename the street that goes up to the baseball field. After you see, the guy did it, for, like the guy in charge, randy frankel, is jewish. He said he was the best kid ever had in 50 years and just all around you know he's like the best athlete, the nicest kid, mom's just sweetest kid. And then he this is by mitzvah, so he, oh yeah.
Speaker 3So when he was 10, during COVID, he got up every morning because you know, school started at a certain time during COVID. You know he had to go log on to see his Rebbe because he started. So he would get up early and he would do Tup Sukkum every day when he was 10, of Baha'i Bukh-Lukai Say. I don't know how to learn, so he taught himself how to learn with online Rebbe Fessel and he did Baha'i Bukh-Lukai Say every day, tup Sukkum. And he taught himself the Bahar Bilqayseh and Naftur when he was 10. And then, before Bar Mitzvah, we got a Bar Mitzvah teacher, rabbi Mandelbaum, just to kind of go over with him. But then he got sick right away when he was 12. He got sick so he didn't really see it.
Speaker 3And then we were in Chopp, philadelphia for Bar Mitzvah and I actually just looked up an email. I saw my daughter put together. They wanted to make a bat mitzvah for him at my Mechutin Rabbi Reber Mayor Reber, who has a kudel in Philadelphia and the Rebers were unbelievable people. They said, yeah, we're going to make it be shmach, be amazing. And we were around. We were down in the house. It was Friday, it was Erev Shabbos. He had radiation that day and I said, yes, do you want to go? I'm not feeling well. And then he felt bad. He felt bad because he was letting me down. So I feel like I want him to do it. I want him to have not even laying I want.
Speaker 3All his sisters are going to be there. My son was in for Mishiva also, so he ended up going and we got there and Friday night it was very beautiful. We had a whole meal, just a family. And then Friday night he went upstairs to the shul and he went over the whole laning with my other son and then Shabbos day he actually laned Bahar, bukha, koyse and Naftara and while he was laning he saw a security camera in the corner and he actually asked me to ask my Mechutin if it's possible to see if they got him on video, and my mokhun doesn't want to, doesn't want me to tell anybody, but the video actually captured um, yitzis bar mitzvah and the night before learning with my son, you know, like going over the parasha. So let me have you know security footage of yitzis bar Mitzvah, which I probably will never watch ever again because I can't handle it, but my wife watches it and we've seen it and, yeah, very, very special for sure.
Speaker 2Was that a mistake? Isn't the video not supposed to? Was that a mistake? Just because it's Travis and it's not supposed?
Speaker 3to be Mitzvah. No, the way the psalm is, is that really? A lot of shuls in Köln have videos but as far as I know, the Pesach is like if the screen that it's recording on is off, it's okay. Like, a lot of shuls have video cameras, security cameras, but you could always get the video. Obviously, no shuls give out bar mitzvah videos, right, it's not what we do. But for Yitzi, I pulled the cancer card on my mikhutin and he, he said he said okay, he said not to tell anybody about. Um, yeah, so we had that and yeah, actually had a, had a. I've had a client who didn't I my own practice, who doesn't live in philadelphia, but he was there for that, that shabbos, and he didn't realize that me, the therapist was yiti's. So we spoke about somehow it came up and he said that was the most special Shabbos. That kid at his bar mitzvah, it was the most special Shabbos of his entire life. I said I don't want to tell you it was my son, like that was you know? Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2But that's like probably one of those like memories to hold on to so tightly, like for someone to say that that's like major.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, a lot of memories. We have a lot of memories. We did a lot of stuff together. We all did. I mean, he was very close to all my kids and he yeah, we have a lot, a lot, a lot of memories together.
Speaker 2A lot. How did?
Speaker 3your children handle his fatigue? It's a good question. You know, in the beginning, when he was sick like mom was in the beginning I remember I called my, we found, we found that I think on a Thursday and I called my kids Thursday night and if you know, izzy, he's like the sweetest kid, like it's like it's so crazy. I remember all my daughters freaked out Like they just crying and screaming. You know it was really bad. And then you know they gathered themselves and you know they were very like. You know we started to film a chat and I mean filming a chat was like even now people say you know they gathered themselves and you know they were very like. You know we started the Hilma Chat and I mean Hilma Chat was like even now people say I mean I think it happens a lot, like the Hilma Chat still goes even after someone's lifted. But like you know, they're very, very on top of Hilma Chat, making people show people to get on Shabbos.
Speaker 3And you know they did a lot of stuff for him and it was, it was, it was hard, it was very, very hard. I mean when they came up they were all they're all out of the house. So when they came home. You know, if you felt well, shabbos is nice. If he didn't feel well, it was very hard to see him just like being nauseous. All shabbos, you know. But yeah, each one handled differently. You know, some of them like some of them don't talk about him at all. Some of them talk about him a lot. Some of them handle it differently. You know, some of them like some of them don't talk about him at all. Some of them talk about him a lot. Some of them are in the middle.
Speaker 2You know, I guess it's like, but I would say balance yourself as like a father and a therapist, like they don't want therapy from you, probably I don't.
Speaker 3I don't give them therapy. I know Everybody's different. You know we all mourn differently, we grieve differently and I never forced them to talk about it. You know. I mean sometimes you want to talk about Yitzi Like if they're all there for Shabbos. You know, like on the yard side you made a beautiful thing. We had a sima shas on the yard side. I spoke at school about Yitzi. That was emotional because everybody, the whole school, was in mourning. I told you they're renaming the school after him. It's called the Yitzi Satopsi Campus. It's like an $11 million building.
Speaker 3Actually, one of my daughters who's engaged now, she had a very, very hard time. She was very angry, for sure, very upset and very sad and very angry. But I think the fact that Yitzi was saying all those things like can't be mad at Hashem, I finished my mission in this world. We have to love Hashem. You know he loves us. We'll be together forever, always. I think the fact that he was able to say all those things of like closure really gave that daughter and all of us really. But that daughter especially, like a massive nechama, like she was mamash upset, like angry and she really got a nechama out of that, like you saw like a, um massive difference.
Speaker 2You know so, so did you like keep at the wedding and like your child is missing, like you're not making a wedding with your full family uh, you know, we never um, we never um, we never made it well, we never had a simcha yet without him.
Speaker 3You, you know, I mean we like my niece got married, but like a family Simcha, you know, my daughter got engaged and Yitzi wasn't there.
Speaker 2That's a year and a half, you told me right.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah. Well, my other daughter had a baby whose name they actually. She actually named him Yitzi, oh wow.
Speaker 3Yeah yeah, his name is Yitzhak Y. Yeah, his name is Yitzchak, I'm sorry, yaakov Yitzchak, and we call him Yitzi. I mean, it's very weird to call him Yitzi. You know, like we still we're not perfect at it. You know, like his other grandmother called him Yitzi and his mother called him little Yitzi, we call him like I mean, he was a baby, it was in a Choma, you had the Briss, for sure. Yeah, it's still. It's raw. You know, it's very raw, for sure, very raw.
Speaker 2I got married like a year and I got engaged right after my brother's first year at psych. So I got married but I was less than a year and a half, you know, after he was in the fair. And I remember, like, when the photographer said, so this is the whole family, and I saw that pain that crossed my father's face, I was like, oh my gosh, why didn't, like I say anything to this photographer beforehand? Like that was like like I saw that pain, it was so huge. Like that was like I saw that pain, it was so huge.
Speaker 3Right, right, because you were taking family pictures.
Speaker 2You're saying we were taking family pictures and my brother wasn't here and like it was very bad.
Final Days and Saying Goodbye
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, I don't know, I don't know how we're going to do it. You know we've taken pictures. Well, we've definitely taken pictures since then Not hasana, family pictures but um, I think it's gonna be on people's minds, you know, I'll probably say something about it, you know, I guess. But yeah, I mean it's, I'm sure it'll be emotional, you know. I mean, just thinking about it makes me very, very sad. Actually, like you know, it's a bit emotional. Like, oh yeah, like my other two daughters got mad, like, like this son-in-law he is the only son-in-law who he didn't experience it see, like my other two son-in-law very close to them, you know we, yeah, his last two nights he was alive.
Speaker 3We had my other son-in-law, he plays guitar. We had the last two nights he wasn't conscious but, um, well, they were there for a few days. So he, he definitely interacted with them. Like he, he's very weak. So one of my sons is Shlomi. He was, ah, rip, shlomi.
Speaker 3And then my other, my other son-in-law, boaz, would try to steal candy. Boaz, I see you taking candy. And then he, he, you know, I think he had a seizure and he was unconscious. He was basically like just sedated, I guess, for two days and every night we had actually a crazy story. We had a kumtits in his room for those last two nights my son-in-law is very beautiful guitar, whatever so we sang and it was really really emotional, really really, really emotional.
Speaker 3And the first night they were there, we sang and they left very, very late. The second night they were there, we were singing and it was so crazy At 12 o'clock my wife said okay, it's 12 o'clock, everybody go home. So everybody just got up and left. And I remember thinking to myself at that moment I'm like that is so weird, everybody's got up and left, like last night. She said everybody go home, nobody left, everybody stays and nobody like just I just said 12 o'clock, okay, 12 o'clock, everybody go. And then everybody left, they shut the door and me and my wife were back to Yitzi and we held his hand and he took his last like his you know, yitzi is the Shabbat basically his last breath.
Speaker 3It was so weird it didn't make any sense. I remember thinking that's so weird. Everybody just listened to mommy. Nobody listened to mommy. Everyone stayed with Yitzi.
Speaker 2What did you do? You called everyone back.
Speaker 3No, we didn't call them back. I don't think they would be able to handle it. It's a tough call in the moment. What to do, you know? Like call you back. And so we spent no, we just spent a lot of time with him in the room and you know we were very.
Speaker 3We were in touch with my friend Ravi Almon. He's like a chaplain. He was actually in Kuwait so he is in charge. He's a Hever Kadesh in Pittsburgh so he spoke to me a lot on the phone from Kuwait and he took care of everything. I mean I think I totally mentioned the community here is like it's unbelievable.
Speaker 2The Pittsburgh community mamish carried us, they carried us the whole time Was the Hever Kadesh like taking away you and your wife?
Speaker 3No, we weren't there. I took him away. No, to take him away, you and your wife. No, we weren't there to take him away. No, we said goodbye to him. We went into the room and we went to a different lounge area to talk to one of the Rabbanim who was going to do the Leviah. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting to think about that, how you're able to like I remember Yitzhi was Niftir, we were sitting with him, we were holding his hand, we were really just, I don't know, we weren't like hysterical, I don't know. It was weird. You know, you're just like in the even. I mean not joking around, but like just having really you know who's going to say Tehillim, because it was Hanukkah, so we can't really have a spade in, you know, and they're all said, maybe, maybe this person do it. Like no, I'd rather just keep it with it. Like it's interesting how you're able to just be able to be present, you know, very present. Were you able to speak by? You know?
Speaker 2very present. Were you able to speak?
Speaker 3by LaVeya yeah, yeah, I spoke. My two son-in-laws spoke, his Rebbe spoke.
Speaker 2Like Hasbazen was saying we can't really have Hasbazen, but Right, yeah, but it was short.
Speaker 3It was definitely shorter.
Speaker 2Shorter.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, it was definitely shorter and yeah, it's definitely shorter and yeah, then we had Levi. He's very, very close, like he's. I mean, I think it also helps a little bit, like you said. Like, let's say, before my daughter got engaged I went to the cemetery. You know, before the chastanah I go to the cemetery. Like it's very accessible, it's like probably less than a 10-minute drive from my house, probably an 8, 9-minute drive.
Speaker 2That's amazing.
Speaker 3Yeah, I mean at first for a long time I couldn't look at pictures at all, like mom should all. And then now I'm able to look at pictures but I can't. I don't want to hear it. I wish I could hear his voice. I can't even imagine hearing his voice again. But then I didn't want to make it that the cemetery becomes a place that I can't go to. You know, like if you don't go for a long time you just build it up as this place that I can't handle. So I don't go crazy often, but I go probably once a month. I feel like I should go more, but it's right here. Yesterday was Shabbat, shabbat. I thought maybe I would go, but I didn't go. I don't mind going. It's a thing that I don't mind.
Speaker 2Were you considering burying him in Eretz Yisrael, or it was like no, I need him near me.
Speaker 3My brain just defaulted to my Rebbe. I have a Rebbe, I have a Rebbe, rebbe Reingold, from Silver Spring, and you know I'm, you know I mean he says Kibi, you want. He said you want. You told my wife also. My Rebbe was like he drove in like five times you know, from from Maryland. He was like unbelievable. But he, he's like Kibi, you want, you want him near you, like you're gonna be in Pittsburgh for a while, hopefully, and you know not only a place we thought was Lakewood because I have some kids there, or he's like Kivi, you want him near you, you're going to be in Pittsburgh for a while, hopefully, and not only a place we thought was Lakewood because I have some kids there, or maybe Ertzug, we wanted him near us.
Speaker 3So, he is very, very, very close. And I told you, the community is amazing. Someone paid for the La Valle, someone paid for the Matzeva, everybody just Wow, that is amazing. The LaVaya, some paid for the Matzeva, you know everybody just Wow, that is amazing.
Speaker 2And how did his classmates deal with this?
Speaker 3It's funny, during that time I actually worked in school. You know, during the whole time I'm the therapist in the school so I usually with the kids all the time. So I always tell people that the hardest kids I had, the hardest kids I had to talk to, were the kids his age. Like I didn't mind schmoozing with other kids of all the different ages, you know, but like his specific class there were a few kids I was schmoozing with all the time Like I had very hard. Or I had clients his age that I found hard to talk to them, not because I was upset like oh, why them? You know why. It just was like it's hard to talk to kids his age, you know. It just made me think about him too much, I guess Before he was nifter.
Speaker 3But kids are very interesting, you know. Kids are very, in a way they're resilient and in a way they're also like they're not awkward. They just don't like adults, adult. Every time an adult sees me, it's like they feel the need to be monogamous, like like I'm a year and a half out, and like every time adults see me, they like Kiva are you? You know, like kids are, like it's called, emotionally saturated. You know they have a lot on their mind already in their own life. So you know they just want to talk about themselves. So I'm happy about that. Like I don't want to talk about Itzy with you right now, you know I want to just talk about it. But everybody loved Itzy. So he had a few friends that actually unbelievable yeah. So his friends, they're really good. They die from every day. He said to him, every day they learned from at graduation, which I didn't go to, my wife went. Everybody, every kid spoke about him.
Speaker 2You know part of their speech wow and yeah, you didn't go to that because it was too hard for you yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3Yeah. I'm not looking for like unnecessary pain, you know. So yeah, I did. I had clients that night. I didn't want to go to graduation. A few boys spoke about him this year also graduation, Like some of his friends are younger than him, but he actually became very, very close to the boy in Lakewood I don't know I won't say his last name, but really it sounded Sadag of the boys. They may have been young but they got. Basically my cousin's neighbor in Lakewood also had cancer, Barak Hashem. He's doing fine but Yitzi and him became like like unbelievable friends.
Speaker 3They got chemo together and you know, yeah, so very, very, very special boy, mamash Him and Y, he meets you like super, super, super close so then it must have been very scary for this boy when you see was an external yeah, very hard, yeah, very, very hard for him, like I mean, he probably spoke to you more than anybody else maybe besides my wife and me, maybe maybe more than me, because he, like, they spent like hours and hours and hours.
Speaker 3They play video games like the same video game they played together. They've got the phone together. There's thousands and thousands of text messages between them. He was old. This boy is older, he's, he's like a sadhuk of a kid and his parents are really, really special also, and they, you know, we, yeah, so like it's very very hard, you know, I think it was, yeah, very hard, yeah, um, yeah, and my, my parents also.
Community Support and Finding Meaning
Speaker 3You know they, we had to tell my parents. That was hard. The way we did that was we called the highlight. We know what to do. I mean, highlight line actually gave us really good advice, very good advice. My sister and brother-in-law flew out there to Florida to be there when we told them you know, because they're older, you know and they need like support, you know. So that was very, very. My siblings also were unbelievable and my older sister she's like does everything. So she flew out there and my brother-in-law also does everything, and they were there when I told, when I told my parents so was that hard for you that you had to support them when you really needed their support at that time, or no, I, I didn't, I didn't need their support and you know I'm very I speak to my parents every day, I'm.
Speaker 3But, like you know, I don't feel, like I don't think I needed their support. I mean, they're very appropriate. You know, I didn't need, I didn't like lean on my parents for support.
Speaker 2You know, like but did they lean on you for support that was hard to give?
Speaker 3not really they. They probably know my sisters more, though they. They just want you know they don't want to us. They want to know what's going on. You know updates, right, right, besides the fact that he was very nauseous for a lot of it, like everything was kind of going, you know, like scans were okay, he was, you know, like there was nothing crazy to report, just that he didn't feel well, but like there was never like a no, but the last four weeks once he relapsed.
Speaker 3Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, but that everybody was like very, they just like kind of like stayed away kind of. You know we were like in the zone. You know, like me, my wife, the doctors, you know all the people. You know they're not, they're not prying or asking. You know, like they're not prying or asking, I mean, the community is unbelievable. One of my coaches, danny Crowe, is CEO of the school.
Speaker 3He flew to Israel to see his daughter when he heard he was really not doing well he just got right back in the plane and flew home and my parents were sleeping in his house. He slept on the couch and my parents were in his bedroom oh my goodness for like a week, you know wow yeah, um, yeah, it's very hard, and are there?
Speaker 2big differences in grieving between you and your wife yes, yeah, very much.
Speaker 3Well, my wife is, she will. I mean, everybody knows my wife was, she was unbelievable, you know, just like next level unbelievable and I guess every mother would be like that, you'd assume. You know, but like just you know, because at a certain point he had a feeding tube because he lost a lot of weight and then he also he had the. You know, when you get IV, you know they put put a port in a port. So we had a port and a feeding tube and my wife was just like there was never a moment where it was like she couldn't do it. You know she just it was like just always at night, you know, like I'm like dead tired. She's like getting the food and putting the, you know the, whatever it's called, I don't know in the feeding tube. It's yeah, like she just did everything, everything, everything she can.
Speaker 3And we definitely agree differently. I, I mean, I look, I think about Yitzi every second, really like weirdly, so I think about all the time. I have no problem thinking about him, but in the beginning I didn't want to see any pictures or hear his voice or anything like that. I was happy to talk about him. We actually started WhatsApp chat memories, and we just unloaded hundreds and hundreds of memories about him. So we won't forget, just like tons of memories.
Speaker 3And my wife is much more. I mean, she really recorded hours and hours and hours of Yitzi. So not in any obsessive way, but she really listens to it. You know she'll be cooking for Shabbos and she'll be listening to Yitzi, or she'll look at tons of pictures and you know video and the audio stuff and you know she found it very meaningful. I think at first she was kind of taken that I didn't want to see any pictures. Don't you want to see Yitzi? Don't you want to not forget him? But then she understood. For me it's just too painful. It didn't cause any friction or conflict. We grieved differently. Even now I should listen to the audio all the time. I'll send the audio to you, I'll send the audio to Ron Lapiansky, I'll send the audio to Salma Arabin, because it's like very holy stuff, you know. But I just I can't imagine hearing his voice At this point. I can't imagine hearing his voice.
Speaker 2Right, but it's still very recent. I mean that could still like change.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's still very recent. I mean, that could still like change. Yeah, yeah, we went on the mayhem shabbaton and that therapist.
Speaker 2Um what's your name?
Speaker 3um hindi, kine yeah, yeah, she's unbelievable, so hindi, kine, I think my gosh unbelievable, so we spoke about it because she had a story about her son, also like super yeah, with the remnant cerebra right, yeah, like very special.
Speaker 3And then she said come on, look at pictures. That's what she told me. I said it's only been a year and a half, that it's only been a year. At that time then she told my wife okay, leave him alone, it's only been a year. You know, I can't you know. Yeah, it's very raw, it's mama, sure, but but, and now I look at pictures, I'm good with pictures now.
Speaker 2Wow.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah. A lot of things gave. I guess you know it gave us a lot. I think a lot of the community gave us his like, the fact that Yitzi was like he was, like it was a journey, like it wasn't abrupt. You know, we were with him for 10 months Like we had no other kids home.
Speaker 3We weren't juggling carpools and dinners and even though everybody made his dinner, but we weren't, we were just very, very hyper-focused on the team. It was a lot, a lot of quality quality time, um, intense quality time and um, yeah, we, we, uh, I was going to say we, we right, it was a journey. I want to say something One second. Yeah, I can't remember.
Speaker 2Yeah. We were talking about him decline, and that she told your wife to you know, give you space, it's not so much, right, right, what she did.
Speaker 3And no, I think about it all the time. I can't remember, yeah, okay, oh, no, right, the community is very good. And yeah, I can't remember. Yeah, oh, the community, the community was very good. And yeah, there's certain things, you know, like we, certain things are painful, but it's like you, I think you want your, I think you know you want your child to be remembered. You know like it's like definitely that.
Speaker 3I think for sure right, it's very meaningful, like you know. So it's painful that the school is going to be named after him and there's a big picture in the hallway of him which is painful, but it's like, it's permanent. You know, like right, remembered. And you know we put out a safer. You know we permanent. You know I'm coming out with a book on parenting. You know, for, like you know, like you just want you know I'm coming out with a book on parenting. You know, for, like you know, like you just want to. You know his friends talk about him still and he's still very remembered. You know, I wonder how it's going to be in 10 years. I, you know a new kid in school, but, yeah, very, very, very remembered.
Finding Strength in Prayer and Torah
Speaker 3Any important parting messages before we end? Um, I don't know, you know, I mean I think about like I'm, I think everybody's situation is so unique. You know, like I tell you like when I was going through this whole thing so again, I'm not a holy guy at all, I'm really just a schmoozer and I so one thing that helped me, I really worked on my davening and it became like, very, like that was very helpful to me. You know, like I'm 47 years old, so I guess at 45, you know, you, you realize how little you really know. You don't even know what you say, just the regular words. I could ask people 10 words. They don't know what the words even mean. You say it every day. So I really really worked on that.
Speaker 3I had a chavusa. Actually I had a chavusa that almost like the second to last night. He was nifter. We did the malbim on Tehillim of Davani, did the malbim on tehillim of davening, which is like really life-changing um, and then I also had a sefer called psuke yeshu abitachin, which is actually particular rabbi shmuel hurth, who I got very, very close with, who lost his daughter maki. Um, I think people know maki, it's called maki's melodies, I think.
Speaker 2Yeah they put on a big brochure like a yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3So Rishu al-Hurth was like really one of the most special people. Him and his wife are just uniquely special. He is so proactively engaging. I didn't want to talk to anybody at that time and he was like so he's like a friendly sefer ter, like really just unbelievable. So the sefer and the reason why I know that is because the safer I had, which are like that had with me like the whole time, the whole 10 months. I told who were unbelievable. I said I want to donate. They said we don't really preach like we don't give out. You know, that's like it's you know, everybody has their.
Speaker 3I understood. But she said I went to seminary with his wife. I'll be in touch, I'll put you in touch with the Mechag. So then I got in touch with Shmuel Hurt and we ever, even till today, you know, we're pretty close, I speak to him pretty often and he, his safety, gave me a lot of you know but and a lot of, a lot of a lot of Divinatoria kind of carried me a lot. You know. I think my kids actually saw that they had a hard time and almost like we're a little jealous that like somehow these divinatory were talking to me and they kind of carried me, even though obviously it was super painful. But but I'm not trying to say that can be fine the whole time, but just it gave me, you know, a lot of the different divin Torah really just resonated, you know.
Speaker 2Everyone has their own like path or their own way that they connect to Hashem during tragedies.
Speaker 3Right, right right.
Speaker 2Work for everyone Right?
Speaker 3I just saw that. I saw from an article, like in the bottom of the article Ch, the article from Avram Zlatovich, two people said you know and you know like it's like they're. You know two most you know unbelievable, like he said, so close to Hashem and in one of the hardest times he's getting killed. You know alsorael, so close to Hashem and Reb Kiva, in one of the hardest times he was getting killed. Also you feel close to Hashem. He said Shema Yisrael.
Speaker 3So, yeah, I went on the Mayim Shabbaton, which was an unbelievable, really an unbelievable Shabbos, and I remember so Glenn, who was like unbelievable, he asked me to speak there, unbelievable Shabbos. And I remember so Glenn, who's, like you know, unbelievable, he asked me to speak there. But it was just, you know, a quick Shabbos afternoon type of thing and I spoke, but I didn't say like a d'var Torah that preached, it was more just like how we're all together. Yeah, I think being carried by a community is really my wife's on a Facebook chat, I think it's called Something Mothers I forgot what it's called exactly. And a lot of the mothers when they go not even when the child's lifted, but even while the sickness and even after also. They feel very alone Very alone is it Very alone.
Speaker 3I think the fact that we live out of town it's a small community, I think we just feel very, very supported. It's very special, I would say.
Speaker 2That's it. Well, thank you so much. I am sure that you know that there's gonna be. You know different parts will resonate with different people, but it should be a. An aliyah forgets his neshama, whatever anyone needs amen, thank you so much for coming in yeah, thank you, I really really appreciate it.
Speaker 3thank you coming in. Yeah, thank you, I really really appreciate it.
Episode Closing
Speaker 1Thank you. You've just listened to an episode of the Relief from Grief podcast with Miriam Riviat, brought to you by Mayrim. For more episodes, visit the Mayrim website at wwwmayrimorg. Help us reach more people who might benefit from this podcast. If you know someone who could find it helpful, please share it with them. If you have questions or comments for the speaker, or if you'd like to suggest a guest for the podcast, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at relieffromgrief at mayrimorg. We look forward to having you join us in the next episode.