Mrs. Sarah Guigue : Filling the Emunah Balloon

This episode begins with Miriam Ribiat sharing about her newly released book, Forever in Our Hearts.  Sarah immediately lights up. “Yes—I love that title!” she exclaims. “You see, I lost my baby. She was stillborn in my ninth month. But she’s alive forever inside of me. I light a Shabbos candle for her and bake challah l’iluy nishmas her. So yes, she may not be alive in this world, but she’s alive forever in my heart.”

Sarah opens up about her journey through pregnancy, the devastating news of a very sick baby, and her growing emunah as she faced Hashem’s plan. She speaks about the deep pain, the isolation, and the strength it took to rise again.

Listen as Sarah shares how she slowly rebuilt her connection with Hashem—one tefillah, one step, one breath at a time.

YouTube: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsK24OSmIYG_XWzeplhfmb8LJcWKphITh&si=untn3fmHLLaEEFNm

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/relief-from-grief-by-mayrim/id1788349916

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3AvWNp0DrHqE5AVYJHooiK?si=ufpIObuGRumS5uFXmvrpgA 

Questions or feedback? Email me at: podcast@mayrim.org

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Grief Journey Podcast, hosted by Mrs. Miriam Ribiat, and brought to you by Mayrim. Mayrim is an organization dedicated to supporting families who have experienced the loss of a child. It was founded with Eli Nishmas Nahamaliba and Miriam Holman. Despite her illness, Miriam devoted herself to addressing the needs of parents and siblings grappling with the immense pain of losing a child. She felt this loss deeply, having experienced it firsthand when her older sister, Noham Liba, passed away. Mayrim continues to uplift and expand on the work Miriam began, a mission carried forward by her parents with great dedication. If you have any questions or comments for the speaker, or if you would like to suggest a guest for the podcast, please email us at relieffromgrief at Mayrim.org.

Introducing Sarah And The Book

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Hi, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us here on the Grief Journey podcast by Mayrim. Um, okay, so I'm very excited. Today, Sarah Gig, creator of Sunday KipsterGirl on Instagram, is joining us. Thank you so much for joining us, Sarah. Thank you so much for having me. This is very exciting. Okay, so I know you had quite a story not too long ago, and I'm looking forward to you really sharing with us in this episode. Um, again, your story is so apropos to Mayrim because Marim is this organization that supports family that went through child loss. And I'm sure that your story will be encouraging to many. Oh, before we start, I have to put out there that we finally came out with our book called Forever in Our Hearts, which is a book for parents that lost children. And interviewed many, many parents and how they process their grief and how their everyone's grief journey is very, very different. And just wanted to put that out there forever in our hearts.

Faith Practices Amid Pregnancy Fears

SPEAKER_02 1:57

That sounds like such an incredible book because hearing different people's stories can be really comforting, especially because everyone goes through such a different process when it comes to loss. And so many different people could connect to the different couples that are mentioned in that book. So that sounds really amazing. And also the title sounds really incredible, forever in our hearts, because um my daughter, we'll go into my story, you know, as this episode unfolds, but I just want to share that my daughter, the child I lost, is forever in my heart in so many ways, spiritually, emotionally, um, and even on a physical level, and I'll explain what that means. Ever since um we found out there were complications during the pregnancy, um, I started increasing in my spiritual connection with Hashem. I started making kala consistently. Um, I really wanted all the brachels, so I covered my hair at home like 24-7 all the time, which is something I did not do before. Um, and then, you know, when I experienced the actual um loss, which I'll get into the details of it as the podcast unfolds, I actually started lighting a Shabbos candle with her. So she's definitely forever in my heart. And um, I'm really excited to take a look at that book.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Yeah, I'm excited for you to see it also. I'm excited for everyone to see it. I think it's gonna help many people. Yeah. But I like when you say that you lit a Shabbos candle also, because forever in our heart, it's always there. And some parents will say, I carry my child around with me always, but there's not necessarily action that other people could see. But when you say now I'm a chal and now I light that Shabbos candle, it's very tangible action. It's not just inside, it's also outside.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Exactly. And that's the beauty of a mitzvah. It's that it's it's spiritual and it's very much connected to our spiritual selves, like it connects us to our soul, but also it's a very tangible physical action that we do in this world. And it really, whenever I make hala or I light a candle for her for my daughter, um her name is Maya Ira, I feel I really feel her nishama here with me. And the beauty of that is that when a soul is in a body, it's limited to the body. And when a soul leaves the body, it's actually unlimited, it doesn't need to be um confined by the body, it's limitations, and so that's why I feel like I can really, really connect to my daughter anywhere at any time, and it's that's what I would say is is the gift within this entire lost story.

The Trisomy 18 Diagnosis Explained

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Wow. Okay, so maybe we should start off with your story. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

Yeah, so my husband and I were married for eight years, and in June 2023, we were blessed with a pregnancy, and it was a really exciting time. We were really excited, and we kept it quiet and planned on keeping it quiet for a very long time. We wanted to really protect this pregnancy. Um, there's this famous line in the Gemara that says, like, you know, a bracha, like there, there, there's there's something about keeping something hidden. And so we wanted to keep the pregnancy hidden because it was so exciting to us. Came to the point of our fourth month checkup. We were going, you know, routinely to the doctor as a regular pregnant woman would go. On our fourth month checkup, there's something that's called um checking the back of the neck. I forgot the medical term for it, checking to see if there's fluid in the back of the neck. And for the most part, healthy babies do not get the fluid in the back of the neck. And the doctor detected fluid in the back of the neck for our baby, unfortunately. And we didn't even know what that meant at the time. And they brought in other doctors in the room and they started chatting with us, letting us know that there is a potential for a genetic disease. And we were like, what does that mean? Like, like, like what does it mean, a genetic disease? Like me and my husband did Doryasharan. Like, we thought we were fine, um, and everything matched up and everything was great. So, what does it mean? And they started telling us so there's something called Down syndrome, and then there's something called trisomy 18 and trisomy 21, and they started explaining to us all these different types of genetic um conditions, and they told us that our baby was most likely going in the direction of trisomy 18. And let me just explain what that is because it's a lot to just take in on a fourth month appointment. Trisomy 18 is a condition where the baby grows deformed in the womb, which means cleft lips, cleft hands and feet, cleft, um, heart issues, and when it comes out of the womb, if it makes it out of the womb, the lifespan of that babyslash child is not long at all. One, two, three years old. There are some very rare cases where the child lives up to 20 years of age. It's a very serious condition where once the child is out of the womb, the child needs to eat, breathe, do everything through tubes attached to monitors. And we would, as parents, need to be extremely on top of this child because trisomy 18 requires all the attention.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Is trisomy 18 worse than trisomy 20?

SPEAKER_02 8:01

It's a good question. I'm actually, I didn't look so deeply into trisomy 21, um, nor the details of Down syndrome. We were very much focused, obviously, on tristomy 18 because that's what they diagnosed our baby with.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

Right.

Holding Hope Versus Medical Reality

SPEAKER_02 8:14

Uh, but I do know that what the three have in common is a chromosome, um, like an abnormal chromosome. So, so, so something is not correct. Some that something in this baby slash child is not growing in the way that a regular human being would. So, that's what I know they all have in common, and they all three do need very specific attention and care and love and affection and require a lot out of the parents. So, when we figured that out at the fourth month, we were like choked and like like we didn't know what to do with ourselves. Like, this was crazy news. No one knew we were pregnant because we were keeping it even private from our family because it was something so exciting to us, and now we were like, how are we going to even announce when I start showing? Because we know what's going on, and we don't know how long the baby's going to live for, and we just need to hope and pray that everything's gonna turn around because we as Jews, as Khabar Hasidim, believe that Hashem can do anything in any new moment because Hashem is constantly recreating the world, and so Hashem could recreate this child in the womb just like this child is growing deformed. Hashem could make that the fingers now are growing in the right way, and and and then the clef lip is no longer clef, and Hashem makes miracles, and we believe in Hashem so strongly. So I held on to the miracle piece. The second we found that out. Of course, there was a lot of emotions going on, but for me, there was there was no choice but to cling on to Hashem for my dear life and to say, Hashem, you are the creator of the world, you create me every day, you wake me up every morning, you take care of my health. Please take care of my baby. You're the only being in the world that could heal my baby. You are the healer of all healers, and I need your help. I need your guidance. So that was my take when I found out, and then throughout the pregnancy, I started increasing in my spirituality and my spiritual connection to Hashem. Whereas my husband's take, my husband is much more down-to-earth, much more pragmatic. He's in Hatzalah, he's in the medical field, and he was very stuck on the research of the trisimity and looking at different university articles and speaking to different doctors and speaking to different professionals in the field and genetic counselors. And I actually feel like the combination of the two, the spiritual and the physical mentality, was very ideal, even though it was it was challenging for us to communicate at times because I was speaking from such a hopeful, miraculous place. And he was like, Sarah, the reality is X, Y, and Z. So there were times where I'm like, Don't burst my bubble. Like, I'm still in the believing, in the, you know, creating with my Munamba Tachon that something could really happen.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

And did you get upset at him that he wasn't taking on as much as you were taking in?

Insurance Falls Through And Leaning On Faith

SPEAKER_02 11:35

Oh, no, definitely didn't get upset at him because it was such a difficult time that the last thing we need in the relationship is for one of us to get upset at each other. So we were actually very respectful of the fact that we process what's going on differently, process the situation differently. And we definitely had different perspectives and different points of views in regards to what was going to happen. So I'll share. I was certain that Hashem would create a miracle for my baby and for me. Because remember, I'm the mother. So when I'm carrying this baby, if the baby's inside of me, my in my body, that I feel the Nishama, I feel the baby, I'm connecting to the baby every day through whatever it is. I could speak. I I, you know, the mother has a very special connection. The father, I feel, and this this was the case for my case. I'm not going to speak for everyone, but I feel like when the child comes out is when the connection, the baby-father connection really starts to develop. The the the baby is is is blooming, is is being born and being created for nine months in the mother. So there's something the mother has that's very, very special. And of course, the father, husband tries his best to be as present as possible, but it's just different. So we were very respectful of each other's differences. Um, but it definitely got challenging at times because I was extremely reluctant in sharing the complications that were going on with people. Doesn't matter if they were rabbis, medical professionals, and there were times where we had to reach out to, you know, rabbis and medical professionals. And I was so reluctant in verbalizing what was going on with me out loud because I didn't want to create with my words. We create with our words, right? Barashit, bara, lokim atashima, tashem created the world with his words, with speech. And so too, because we're made betalam alokim, we're made in God's image, we also create with our words. And I was so scared that by saying what was going on out loud, I was confirming that this is my reality. At the same time, I wasn't in denial of the reality. I knew very well what was going on. I just wanted to be extremely not wanted to, I was extremely conscious of the language that I was using because language formulates and creates our world.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

So let me ask you something. Maybe I'm jumping ahead. But um, did the doctors, I don't know, maybe you were too far along ready, did they recommend that you terminate the pregnancy?

SPEAKER_02 14:19

Yes, they did. Yes. So exactly at this time when we found out, they said, you're gonna go through a lot of complications. Your life may potentially be at risk, and the birth will be extremely complicated. We, as our practice, do not want to take this responsibility upon us, and we really recommend that you terminate. And it was an absolute no for me. And Yoni and I discussed it, and it was an absolute no for him as well. It intuitively it didn't feel right to me. Of course, I'm not just gonna make this the decision based on me. It's important for such a severe case to consult a doctor and a rug, and we did. And there were some ways that we didn't have to terminate. You know, sometimes doctors will use very harsh language because they want to protect, um, they want to protect their practice, and they it's just they they are prevent like they use like preventative language. So, like if something's too challenging for them or too complicated, they want to limit the risk of complication. So for them, a termination is the easiest route possible. Is it possible to keep going? Yeah, of course. But we have to reach to multiple through multiple different doctors to finally hit one that said, it's okay, you can keep this baby in your womb, and it won't pose such a big risk the way the doctors are saying. I was still petrified, even if there was a little risk. What do you mean it poses a risk? My life is at risk from carrying a baby, from growing my child. And it was very um scary in the moment because they weren't sharing exactly what the risk was. And anytime I asked, like, they weren't able to tell me what's exactly the risk, you know, like, yeah, there's a risk for the baby, but what's the risk for me? And it like wasn't so clear. So a lot of the things the doctors say, I mean, this is what I learned throughout my story, is really for the sake of protecting themselves. Um, and that's when I really also, the more I heard the doctor's words, all the doctors we went through, the more I started really connecting to Hashem and strengthening my connection with Hashem and myself so that my intuition could get stronger and I could listen to that voice inside of me that's guiding me.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Hold on, one second. So you're saying intuition is really sort of like Hashem talking to you.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

100%. Your intuition, but it's important not to get it confused with your anxiety. And a lot of the times we have a lot of voices inside of us, and we need to be really aware of which voice is really talking to us.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

So, yeah, I was very connected to myself at the time. I was increasing in Tahilim any spare moment I had. I would talk to Hashem in my own words, ask him for guidance, let him know exactly what's going on. I would read extra Tahilim to clear the air and to get a re-strengthening, a reboost for myself. And as the months went on, it was very, very challenging because as much as I increased in my MUNA, I was starting to show. And I was highly embarrassed to be in the public just in case someone would say, Wow, Bashan Tova, whoa my gosh, I'm so happy for you. Because my story is that I've been married for eight years and this was my first pregnancy, and of course, someone would be happy for me to see that I'm carrying a child, to see that I'm finally pregnant, but there was so much going on in my world and no one knew about that a simple Besha tova, a simple I'm so happy for you, a simple hug could be so triggering for me. So triggering for me. So bar Hashem, thank God, it was actually during the winter months that I started to show. And during the winter months, you could wear your baggy sweaters and your coats and oversized stuff, and that's exactly what I did. And so it was easier to hide the bump.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

And and I think also, what was were you smaller? Like, was the baby smaller because it wasn't growing up?

No Heartbeat And Shock

Induction, Birth, And Halachic Steps

SPEAKER_02 18:49

The baby, yes, thank you. The baby was growing deformed and much smaller than a regular baby. Of course, there was still a bump, but it wasn't as big as a regular size baby. And so that was actually, you know, the silver lining. There were so many little, little silver linings in my story. And that was one of them because the the embarrassment, or maybe not embarrassment is the word, but the the feeling of like overwhelm I would have to face if someone were to tell me, well, I'm so happy for you, would I, I would start crying on the spot, balling on the spot because of everything I was going through. And I was holding so much emotionally. Um so as the months went forward, my health insurance got declined. And this was crazy because what are the odds that during such a complicated process, my health insurance is all of a sudden taken away from me? And because I was so connected spiritually, I said, this has to be for my good. Hashem loves me so much, and when Hashem performs miracles, he does them in a hidden way, and so right now he's removing my ability to go to the doctor and to see the sonograms and to see what's happening inside my womb because he's creating a miracle, and that's exactly what's happening. And so every day I would say, Hashem, I remember it was Hanukkah, I would pray by the menorah. Hashem, thank you so much. This is the miracle, this is the holiday of miracles. This is Hanukkah, Naiska Doha Ya Po, Naiska Doha Ya Po. And every day I would really connect as as deeply as I could with so much prayer and focus and kabbana and mitzvah, and any anything really that I could think of doing, I I would do. I really gave my all. And so my health insurance, you know, is still not available, so I'm not seeing a doctor, but I am I am moving along in life and doing the regular things that I love to do, like teaching and giving Torah classes on Zoom and um hosting intimate gatherings in my home and um speaking at Halobakes if I'm feeling up for it. And I'm really just living my life and doing what I love to do. Um, of course, like still hiding my bump and like still feeling, you know, bat battling my internal world as I'm doing all this. And it comes to a time where I am giving a Tanya class, an evening Tanya class online on Zoom, and I hang like you know, it it comes the class comes to an end, and I start to feel this pounding headache, like pounding, extremely strong headache. And I lay down on the couch, it's about 10, 10:30 p.m. And I drink water, I take like a micro nap. I'm like trying to like heal what's going on in my body that I'm feeling such a intense headache. I was nine months at this point.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

You were nine months, maybe, okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Yeah, so my husband comes to me and he says, Sarah, you really you don't look good right now. And I said, Okay, like obviously I'm exhausted and I have a headache. He's like, No, like your face coloring looks discolored, like you look a little green tinted. Let me give you a Tylenol. So he grabs a Tylenol, gives me water, and I take it, and like we wait like 20 minutes, half an hour, 40 minutes, and like nothing changes. Being that my husband is in Hatzala, he says, Sarah, I'm sorry, but we need to take you to the hospital right now. I said, It's 11:30 p.m. I'll just sleep. I'm probably exhausted. It's time to sleep now. And then we'll wake up in the morning. If it's still going on, we'll go in the morning. And he said, No. You're you don't look regular, and it's better safe than sorry. We're I'm taking you now. So off we go to the hospital. And we when we get there, I remember we told them, actually, um, we don't need to go to the regular emergency room. We actually need to go to the um maternity area just in case it has something to do with maternity. And I remember the person who was greeting us, I don't know what they're what they're called officially, but she was like, Maternity? Really? Like she didn't even see the bump.

SPEAKER_03 24:05

Wow.

Finding Meaning In Birth And Ritual

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Of course, I had my jacket, I had a lot of stuff on, I was on the structure, like there was a lot to it. But I was like, wow, she didn't even see it. Okay, cool. They they wheel me over to maternity, and that's where um I get ready for my appointment my appointment, I put my robe on, and then they um check for they do a regular basic sonogram to check what's going on in the womb, if it's womb-related or if it's just a headache. And as the nurse is working on me and hovering the little handheld machine over my womb to see what's going on, she's really, really silent and quiet, and she's doing it again and again. And she puts the handheld machine down and she like clicks, clicks, clicks on her computer, clicks, and she's like, I'll be right back, guys. So we knew right then and there that something was something was going down because a lot of the times nurses don't have the um not the ability, but the like the right to declare to announce anything. So what happened was she came back into the room with like three other people. One of them was a doctor, another one, I don't know what each one was, but then the doctor does the same thing, takes the handheld machine, hovers over my womb, takes a look at the sonogram, and then takes a look at me, takes a look at the screen again, and she says, I'm so sorry, we don't detect a heartbeat. And my first initial reaction was we try again, can I see the screen? She obviously, with so much uh pity, turned the screen over. She's like, Look, the screen usually has some colorful hues, like some green, blue, red. And right now it's just coming up as black and white, which means that we don't detect any sign of life. And right then and there I started bursting, bawling my eyes out. And my husband was in the room with me, and we were just both crying and just did you ever the whole time were you ho were were your hopes that like it's gonna end up really being a healthy baby?

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Were you ever afraid that like this baby's gonna be born very unhealthy and taking care of it is gonna be super challenging and difficult?

SPEAKER_02 27:02

A hundred percent, yes, but because throughout the entire process I was truly clinging on with so much Amuna to the point that I wholeheartedly believed that Hashem would create a miracle and would make the baby grow in a healthy, proper way that the news was shocking to me.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

Meaning So you were really the death of a healthy baby.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Yeah, I was I was I was so much hoping that I didn't even think of backup plan B. Like it was so beyond in the back of my mind that I didn't I never brought it to the forefront because I didn't want that to be my reality.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

And so I was trying to consciously create my reality with this extreme immunopatahone. And so when this moment happened in the hospital, I just burst. I bursted.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

So, what was your husband crying about? Also the death of a healthy child or just the death of an unhealthy child?

Postpartum Numbness And Withdrawal

Microhabits And Rebuilding Routine

Yoga, Stored Trauma, And Release

SPEAKER_02 28:08

Um, well, we didn't know if that child was healthy or not at the time. We didn't know what was happening because my health insurance actually got expired for quite a bit. So we didn't have confirmation as to whether or not the child was growing healthy or not, right? So the doctor said, let me give you guys a minute to process. They all leave, the staff leaves, and this is where we shared what was going on in our minds. I started crying because I had held on, held on, held on with so much amuna as if like, imagine every day I'm like blowing up a balloon, blowing up a balloon, blowing up with like amuna, but strength, miracles, positive energy, viewing this as a positive thing. And then that moment was a needle and a boop, wow literally a deflation of my efforts. That's what it felt like. Plus, there was so much of a combination of my thoughts. Plus, I was carrying a child for nine months and I just lost this child, and I was also crying at the fact that is this child healthy, is this child not healthy? The unknown, the uncertainty, and the fact that now I'm I I had a a dead body inside my body, and that was very, very, very, very scary for me. And and which meant I had to what what am I doing now? I can't go back home, but I'm not even ready to give birth. I don't know what giving birth is all about. How do I breathe through this? What does it even mean to give birth prematurely? And there were so many thoughts flashing within matters of milliseconds in my mind. And that was the overwhelm, that was the tears. It wasn't just one thing, it was it so much. And for my husband, I mean, I don't know everything that was flashing through his mind, but he did share a bit because there's a lot. There's a lot. But we were carrying it's kind of like everything that we're carrying in the nine-month process that just gets bursted, right? Of course, my husband had hopes. And um, you know, we we were we were both hoping at the end of the day that there was gonna be a miracle and that we were going to carry our baby, and you know, things were gonna go smoothly, it's still a shock. Even if you know or you're warned that your baby is experiencing complications and you know, all these details, you could be warned all you want, but when it happens, it's it's still shocking. Yeah, like and so the doctors come back in and they say, Listen, right now, it's really dangerous for you to go home because we don't know when this happened, we don't know when the heartbeat stopped. And so we highly recommend for your own health to stay here. We will transfer you to labor and delivery and we will start inducing you. This was my first birth ever. I'm like, what does that even mean? And I said, please, I want you to verbalize every step of the process with me because I'm petrified of the unknown and I'm still processing what had just happened, and I'm just I'm just not here. So I need you to ground me and keep me present, and I need you to tell me everything you're doing to my body. And thank God this doctor was so kind and caring and reassuring. And she said, I'm gonna tell you everything, it's nothing to be scared about. It's for your own good that we need to do this. Um, you know, there's gonna be a few processes. We're gonna take a balloon and we're gonna, you know, help you dilate, and we're also gonna take a hook at some point when it's you know, when we feel like you're dilated enough, and then we will pop the water open with that hook. And at the time it sounded so scary. Like, what are they doing to me? Um, but of course, it was needed to be done, and so we, you know, I get transferred, we go into that process, and it was so much happening at once because at the same time, with all these, you know, fears and and me caring the past, and I'm even having a hard time verbalizing right now what I was feeling, but we also had to deal with the next steps like hey, what's happening? Like, what goes down halachically with like a funeral? Like, do we need to contact a rabbi? Like, what's what's what are the details moving forward? And there was just so much to grapple with when we didn't even yet have the emotional ability to process what was going on. So we're in the birthroom, and you know, they start the induction process, and it was a very painful process, and it was also my first time-or emotionally you're talking about both, both. It was my first time ever giving birth, and it was something I really, really feared doing, especially in an unnatural an unnatural way. But the silver lining was that thank God it was more or less of a natural birth. Um, you know, there was an induction, but like, thank God we didn't have to do a C-section. You know, I I could, I could, you know, I could go forward and and still find the parts where I'm grateful to Hashem where it could have been worse, you know? And for me, that's a coping mechanism that really helps me. Where I look at what I was given and I say, okay, Hashem, you knew that this is what I could handle. And I remember the birth itself being a very, very holy time for me. And in general, you know, birth for a woman is is an extremely special time. It's a very powerful mitzvah. It's it's the epitome of co-creating with Hashem. For nine months, you know, we're we're we're growing this baby, and initially it was a three-way partnership: husband, wife, Hashem. And then for nine months, it's wife and Hashem. And then during the birth process, it's also wife and Hashem. And so it feels like the epitome of co-creation, this is our opportunity as women to co-create another life, to bring life into this world. And even though I was bringing something that wasn't full of life, what I was recognizing is that I carried life in the womb. I carried life for nine months, and this life that I carried gave me life, gave me khizuk, gave me vitality, and gave me the ability to connect to Hashem on a level that I never had before. And like I said in the beginning, but I'll say it again, anytime I had a spare moment, I would speak to Hashem in my own words, I would increase into Halim. I started making khalla. Um, and now after the birth, this was really, really hard for me, I remember that week I was debating. Do I need to light a Shabbos candle? You know, do I, should I take that upon myself? Should I not? We decided as a couple it was the right thing to do. And then now every Shabbos, it's a year and a half later, and I'm still lighting a candle for my daughter, a Shabbos candle.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

What day of the week was this that she was born?

SPEAKER_02 36:07

It's such a good question. I was actually thinking about it as I was just sharing with you, but because I was in the hospital for three days, I'm having a hard time remembering.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

But she was Shabbos, you were home already.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

Oh, for Shabbos, yeah, yeah. For Shabbos, I was home already. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

She was born earlier in the week.

Future Pregnancy And Genetics

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Yeah, but she was born on January 31st, 2024. So whatever day of the week that is. Okay. And then Shabbos, thank God I was home. I was Shabbos is so important for me. So I'm very grateful that I was able to be in my space of comfort with Hashem's light. And I I really felt I felt hugged that week because birth is like climbing a mountain. When you finish, you're like, it was a relief. It was a relief. And as much as there was a lot of pain and a lot of a lot of emotions going through me, it was a relief that Hashem knew where to stop. Hashem knew how much we could handle as parents. And yeah, I do reflect and think back. Would we have been able to been to be parents of a child that is trisami 18? I'm I'm sure if Hashem gave that to us, then we would have been able to.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

But Hashem stopped right there, and that was a relief for me.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

So there was a lot of gratitude.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

There was relief and and gratitude, but not anger.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

Not anger. Well, at least definitely not right away. Definitely not right away. Okay, so I was on a post-birth high for quite a bit. And when my body started healing, that's when my emotions started rising to the surface. And I realized, hey, I need to tend to them, I need to nurture them, I need to start really feeling my feelings more deeply and really give myself a space to process. And that was very challenging. And it's what a lot of people call PPD, postpartum depression. Not sure that I was diagnosed with it, but I'm I'm sure that that's what it was because it lasted for a period of time where I completely wanted to just stay in bed. Didn't have the desire for things that I usually have desire for. And I wasn't angry at God. I was just more like numb. It was kind of like not feeling anything towards myself or God or life. It was this like overwhelming, consuming feeling of numbness. Like that's what it was over and over again. For it's so hard to know exactly the timing about, but like a chunk of time, I would say, until I decided I I'm done. I I no longer want to be in this space. I I this happened to me. It's it's time to rise up again, Sarah. Like you processed your emotions, you stayed in bed, you lost connection with life, you denied.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

You go into that a little deeper, what that means. Of course, of course.

Co‑Creating With Hashem And Agency

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Yeah. So, like, for example, if there were social events, usually I'd be so hyped to go. I was not hyped to go, and I was feeling fine on a physical level. My body was already healed. Um, bar Hasha, I healed relatively quickly, but it was as soon as my body healed that my emotions started rising up, flaring up, needing their own attention because I realized I couldn't do both. I couldn't heal my body and my emotions at once. And so once my body healed and I was literally fine, I technically could have been going to the gym and taking care of myself. No, I wasn't in the headspace too. That's when the emotions kicked in so strongly, and there was an overpowering feeling of numbness, numbness. So it's not even pain. Um, because before the pain actually comes, actually for me, it was just numbness, and numbness is the inability to feel, right? Which is really, really dangerous because that's me not processing anything and me not even wanting to process anything.

SPEAKER_03 40:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

And it it lasted a nice amount of time, and it was it was a very challenging and intense period. And then I gave myself permission to journal and feel and listen to music that gave me the ability to feel my emotions and create that safe space for myself to just it's okay. If I want to scream, I could scream. If I want to cry, I could cry. Even if I'm crying days on end, it's okay. And I will cry randomly. It's also important to note that as much as I think, oh yeah, I physically healed, the hormones were definitely still getting to a regulated state. And that also takes a huge toll during postpartum. Postpartum is a really, really challenging time. And yeah, I was definitely in the thick of it and the depth of it to the point where I wasn't even posting on Instagram. And posting on Instagram is such a big passion of mine because it really feels connected to my mission in this world and my purpose. How often do you normally post? Every day. Once a day. Yeah, every day, once or a couple times a day. And I love to share like insights, Torah, whatever it is, I love to share insights, but I wasn't in that space to be able to give because I was not, I was just not, I was not there.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

I I was I was I was really so you crapped out of it by yourself by deciding it's enough, I'm ready to get out. You didn't need like medicine therapy, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

You just so so I I considered medicine therapy, but I felt I actually I did one therapy session and I felt not understood. And I said, I don't think anyone's gonna understand me. And I am a pro I'm pro-therapy in general, but for this specific situation, because I was so immune-based, I just I I just felt really not understood. And I felt like I I wasn't going to be understood because no one knew the depth of the challenge that I went through for nine months every day, every moment of the day.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

Wow.

Comfort Zones, Tests, And Timing

SPEAKER_02 42:35

I'm like, I'm not gonna be understood. I need to figure this out. Just like I went in alone with Hashem, I'm going to get out through it with Hashem.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

Wow.

Ongoing Grief And Anniversaries

SPEAKER_02 42:45

Yeah, and it was really, really hard, but I would say what made me no longer want to stay there is I felt like okay, now I'm done. Like now I'm done with like being in this mindset of like I'm in bed, felt like I'm vegetating and like I'm not doing anything with my life with my day. And like it's time to get back to the to Sarah, to me, like to who I am as a person. Like Hashem is still creating me every day. He's still waking me up, he still cares about me, he still loves me. Let me get back to my purpose. And what did I do? I took upon myself microhabits. Very, very, very small, easy, tangible, practical steps on a daily basis that were non-negotiable. Step number one, drinking a cup of water before I drink my coffee. So simple, so easy, but just showing my body I care about you. I want to hydrate you before I dehydrate you. Um, or before I give you that cup of comfort, rather. And another one, which was a huge pivotal moment, was I am signing up to the gym and I am going to the gym consistently, no matter what I end up doing there. I could do 10 minutes on the treadmill, I could do a gentle stretch, I could do a very easy yoga class, but I am going and I'm showing up. I'm putting on my workout clothes and I'm showing up, and I'm jumping into this energy of we're all working out, we take care of ourselves in this space. And when I did that, literally day one, day two, day three, like within the first week, I started changing because exercise gives us endorphins, and exercise is so underrated. Like from a scientific perspective, it could have the same effects as um medication. It could really heal someone when you're consistent with it. And so that's what I did. And it was very, very, very hard. Don't get me wrong. Um, but just showing up, I would always give myself grace and love and say, you know what? Even if you're not in the mood today, you got dressed, you got out of the house, you drove to the gym, you got to the gym and you have your water bottle, you took a few sips and you did 10 minutes on the treadmill today. Good job.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

But at one point you had a very um interesting like mind-body experience at the gym, no?

How To Support Bereaved Parents

SPEAKER_02 45:20

Yes, I did. I did have a really interesting mind-body experience at the gym. I remember um this was when I got into yoga because I realized that I was not vibing with regular exercise and treadmill, and it felt like a very like stiff on my body, and I wanted something more flow, and I started taking yoga consistently and attending, it was a very gentle flow yoga class, and the teacher was so kind and loving, and the way she spoke, she was so soft-spoken, creating the space of really healing uh for mind, body, soul, and I remember one class I was, you know, breathing through the motions and doing the movements, and at the end of the class, when everyone was rolling up their mats and leaving the room, I just laid there on my mat and I was bawling my eyes out. And so the teacher comes up to me and she's like, Sarah, is everything okay? What's going on? I said, I don't know what's going on, I'm just crying like crazy. And she's like, Well, we did a lot of hip movement today, and a lot of trauma is stored in the hips, and especially if you've had um anything to do with um, you know, specifically the trauma of that area stored in the hips. And I said, That is crazy because not too long ago I had a loss, and clearly I I didn't fully process the trauma out of my body. And she said, There are so many ways to process trauma, and a lot of the times trauma is stored in our tissue, literally in our fascia muscles, in our in our bodies, and exercise releases it. And when you think of your trauma and you're exercising, you're really consciously releasing the trauma. So I was really fascinated by that. And I also thought, wow, like Hashem is amazing, everything is connected, and he gives us the ability to heal ourselves through love. I didn't have to go through hardships to heal. I was able to heal myself through love, through gentle exercise, through warmth, through kind words. And I kept going consistently to yoga. And it's it's something that has really, really helped me process my grief, uh, process my loss, my story. And I highly recommend it to anyone that's postpartum. I think a lot of the times what's challenging about postpartum is that we get stuck in a headspace. And it's really important that if we want change, we need to take action and create that change. So not to be hard on ourselves, take action in a gentle way and create that change, and give yourself the grace for any small effort you made towards that change.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

So are you still doing yoga today?

SPEAKER_02 48:37

I actually am still doing yoga, and it's it's so yeah, it's it's it's helping me so much, and it's Vez Radashan, please God, preparing me for please God, the next child and the next pregnancy, because it's it increases and helps with mobility and flow and fluidity and keeps the body youthful.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

So I don't know if this is too personal, but if it's something genetic, are you afraid of the next baby having this genetic disease?

SPEAKER_02 49:08

So, such a good question. We actually looked into this because we were so afraid that it was something genetic, but it's not anything genetic between my husband and I, it was just an abnormal uh chromosome development within the baby herself. So it it didn't have anything to do with uh with with my husband and I. So thing uh that's extremely reassuring. Um, and we definitely made sure that that was the case by you know going to a genetic counselor.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 49:40

And all that.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

And did you ever think, like, Hashem, that lady down the black that has eight kids, it could have happened to her ninth kid, and then she would have had another eight kids afterwards. She would have been fine. Like, why me?

Her Daughter’s Name And Legacy

SPEAKER_02 49:53

Um, it's interesting. I on um I don't I don't really think why me, only because I actually feel like I don't want this to come from a place of ego, but I feel like it's very special that it happened to me because Hashem really gives his most challenging tests to his strongest soldiers. And I really feel like I went through a lot in my life, and this was just another challenge that was thrown at me that needed to be overcome, and it made me the strongest that I've ever been. And I'm definitely afraid for the next test. Like, I okay, like don't give me more, but like looking back, I'm actually really grateful for the intense connection that I had with Hashem and the intimacy that was created with Hashem and I. And I don't say why me because, like I mentioned earlier, I am a Hasidic hipster, which also means I am Chabad. I follow the teachings of the Lababacher Rebbe. And one of my mottos that I live by is that I am a co-creator with Hashem. I'm not a victim. And saying why me is extremely victim mindset. And as a Jew, we have a responsibility to remember that we're here to co-create with Hashem. He gave us a piece of himself, which is the Nishama we have inside of us. It's literally malamish, inside of our body so that we can co-create with him in this world. And I feel it's a privilege, I really genuinely do feel it's a privilege to wake up every morning and every day that I say Mod'ani, I still think back of my story and my loss, and I say, Wow, I went through so much, and you're still choosing me, and you're still choosing to wake me up because you really believe in me.

SPEAKER_01 51:45

Wow.

Closing Reflections And Resources

SPEAKER_02 51:46

That's really beautiful. Thank you. And this is something I try to spread on Instagram because I feel like not enough people know about this concept. And the Labhava Charebi talks a lot about it. It's called creating a dira betachtonim, which means to create a dwelling space for Hashem in this world, and we do that through our mundane actions. You know, before eating, we we make sure to wash. We're not just watching like robots on autopilot, we're being mindful that we're inviting Hashem in our space. Hashem gave us the bread and bread of sustenance, then we save your karma's own afterwards, and we're just living more conscious lives when we're aware that everything that we do, we have the ability and the opportunity to invite Hashem in our space. And so when we're being tested, we're in a very dark period of time, and it's in the darkest places that Hashem desires to dwell in. Hashem wants to be there, he wants to light up every corner of the earth with his light. But of course, he needs us because he can't come down with his light just like that. Remember what happened to Mats and Torah? We cease to exist because Hashem's light is too powerful and too strong. So what does he do? He contracts himself, he puts himself in Timtum, contracts himself through the realms, through the worlds, and then he appears in this world through us, through us human beings. We're co-creators with him, and that's how we bring the light. We recognize that we are the light, we are represented representatives of Hashem's light. And I really feel like every day that we're alive is a privilege and an opportunity and a responsibility to shine the gifts that we were given.

SPEAKER_01 53:22

Okay, so that's really, really special. And um, I know you said you don't want to sound like you have an ego and you really didn't sound like you have an ego, but I still want to say that if someone is going through a takufa of Hashem, don't make me be strong, I don't want to be tested, you know, give my strength to someone else, like it's okay. Like they'll probably come eventually to a place where you are if they work on it and they don't have to judge themselves for not being there yet. So I just wanted to put that out there.

SPEAKER_02 53:49

Of course. Oh my gosh, of course. I think there was a time and space for everything, and it is important to know when to rise and take action and when to relax, soften, and rest in your comfort space. That there's a very fine line between the two. Um, and I just spoke about this on my Instagram recently. That a lot of the times Hashem sends us challenges, and the purpose that he sends us challenges for is so that we can become greater versions of ourselves and overcome the challenge and rise up, right? But then once we pass the challenge, we can exhale, we can take a little break, we can sit in our comfort zone. But the key is not to stay there for too long because when we stay in our comfort zones for too long, and we get sent other challenges, and we're like, I don't, I don't want this challenge right now. I'm not acknowledging that Hashem sending it to me. I'm staying curled up in my comfort zone. We stay curled up for too long, that in itself becomes painful. The comfort zone itself could be a pain. And I think that we we need to really get to know ourselves. Like, how much can I really stay in my comfort zone? And how much, like, when is it time to like jump out? And I just want to add one more thing is that this week's parsha is parsha slachlicha. And I know we're recording now, and I don't know when we're gonna put this out there, but it doesn't matter because right now, in this present moment, it's parsha slachlicha, and we see Avram Avinu going through all his tests, specifically 10 of them, each one getting harder than the next. And of course, there was a time period in between each test where he had the time to just sit in comfort for a little bit, but not too long. So Hashem knows exactly when we're ready to step out of our comfort zone because he sends us the next test. And we also know when we're ready to rise and when we're ready to dwell and sit with whatever it is that we're going through.

SPEAKER_01 55:44

And I guess that's consistent with your story of that you fell into bed and stayed depressed for a little bit until you said enough, and then you worked on yourself to you know exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:56

I also asked Hashem for help through the darkness. I think that's really important to mention. Um I said, please get me out of this. I don't, I don't want to see myself like this. I know I made for more. I don't want to be in this depressive, numb state. I please get me out. And I would have to ask almost every day to get me out.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

Like it didn't just specifically, I don't know if you did this, but this could be helpful to listeners. Very specifically, like in your story, it's not just Hashem, please get me out. It could be Hashem, please help me take the next right step, which is just to take the cup of water before my coffee.

SPEAKER_02 56:28

Exactly. Exactly. It's exactly that. We we can't go from like dark to light in just a second. We have to make our micro steps. It needs to be a progressive type of experience, and we need to be gentle with ourselves along the way. That's why I said when I would show up to the gym, even if I would just show up and do like five minutes of stretching, I was so proud of myself. Um, and usually that's out of my nature because I'm a very tough cookie and I'm very disciplined.

SPEAKER_01 56:57

But that's so funny because I was almost gonna say, how do you know how to be so easy in yourself?

SPEAKER_02 57:02

Right, because it wasn't easy for me at the time, that was considered being fair with myself. Like it's not called easy, it's like any step, because we just said any step we take towards the light, towards getting better, towards our healing is a huge step because we're not staying stuck in the same spot. And moving forward, creating this momentum, even if it's a slow momentum, is extremely it's crucial for our growth journeys. It's crucial. And I I do want to share um a message for those of us that are experiencing loss, that just I'm I'm sharing from you know, from my experience that loss and grief is not something that goes away. Even if you get in a good mood after Bar Hashem went to the Jan, and then it doesn't matter. There are days when I said Forever in our hearts. Exactly, forever in our hearts. That's why I love the title of that book so much. And for example, like Mother's Day, which happened like a few months after. Actually, yeah, it happened a few months, then it happened also a whole year after. So far, the two Mother's Days I've experienced were extremely difficult and painful. And I cried a lot and I didn't want to see people, and I I isolated myself because I wanted to feel the grief and loss because that's what was coming up for me, and that's okay. And it doesn't have to happen on Mother's Day for you, it could happen anytime. And I just want to say that give yourself permission to feel it's okay that it randomly happens, that you're starting to cry, that you're randomly starting to feel the grief and the loss. It's okay, it will come up in your body, and it's so important to process and it's so important to validate. And other people don't have to understand it's something that happened to you between you and you, even your partner sometimes will not understand the way it's coming up, right? And it could happen for you know your partner that it happens on a Tuesday, and for you it happens on a Chavez, you know, it's it's so it's different for everyone the way it comes up, and the processing is different for everyone. So I just want to like validate that piece, which is why I will still continue to post messages about my loss on Instagram, even when Basrad Hashem, there will be smachot and good vibes and good moods and good, but it doesn't matter. Loss is real, it's a part of our journey, and we don't erase something just because it's uncomfortable. We don't just delete grief out of the picture because oh, that was such an uncomfortable part of my life. No, it made you who you are today, made me who I am today, and it's still a very big part of me, and this is why I'm gonna continue to share it. It doesn't mean that it's a hard emotion to feel that it's something negative. No, it's still from Hashem, and it's very important to acknowledge that. And then yeah. I just wanted to say also for people that like have family members that experience loss or have really close friends and they don't know what to say. Sometimes just holding space is so much more than speaking. So obviously everyone's different, but like reaching out on the day of the of the loss, you know, the York site or whatever it is, hey, I'm thinking of you. How are you doing today? Hey, um, I made cookies, happy to bring them over. Or just checking in, hey, how are you feeling? But what I would say, at least for me, is I don't want anyone to bring it up for me if I didn't bring it up myself. So if I'm bringing it up to them, then that's okay. Like, feel free to like bounce back and like have a conversation, but don't just like casually bring up a loss to someone, um, especially unexpectedly. It's that's really that's not sensitive enough.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:02

You're saying even on the yard side, let's say.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:05

No, I think on the yard side it's appropriate.

unknown 1:01:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:08

This is just my opinion. I know everyone's so different. Everyone's different. I think on the yard side it's appropriate. On the day of the loss, it's appropriate. That time period, it's appropriate. But like, know your time and place, you know, like randomly in Shoal or like randomly at the grocery store. Especially like for me, because I am um, I posted, I shared my story publicly. Like a lot of people associate me with my story, so be like, oh my God, I'm so sorry with what you went through. But like sometimes it's a little out of place, like, no need to bring that up now, you know? So being mindful of when and how you bring up the loss um would mean a lot to the person that went through the loss. And then, yeah, definitely the time period of the York side, it's really nice to offer like some comfort, whether it's through your kind soft words or a baked good, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:58

Um, I know that it would mean a lot to the person who do people know her name? Like, are you open about what her name was?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:06

Yes, her name is Maya Yayira, which means um the light of Hashem. And Maya Iera, you said, yeah, Maya Yayra, two names.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:19

Oh, Yayra.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:20

And Yaira is actually taken from um our cousin that was unfortunately brutally murdered on October 7th. He was at the Nova Festival, and his name was David Yair Shalom.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:35

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:35

And um, we took Yair his name and we made Yaira. And um, because I was pregnant at the time of October 7th, and we said right away we're definitely gonna tie his name to our baby's name. And so Maya Yaira. And um, yeah, I'm definitely public about it. I share her name on Instagram, and of course, I don't like I share as I as I feel and as I go. I don't like overload my page with you know loss and grief, but I think again, there's a time and space, and different people go through their own grief and loss process during their time, and they're so grateful to see that it's being spoken about. And that's why I think that this podcast and what you guys are doing at Mayrim and the grief journey is such an incredible tool of support for people.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:27

Thank you. I know, I know we have to finish, but I still have one more question about the neighborhood. You know, if someone loses a child, whatever, you know, honey, and a neighbor says, Oh, I thought about honey today because I saw the pair of shoes that she used to wear, whatever it is. You know, parents could find that comforting. You don't have the opportunity though for people to say to you anything, like they they could say, Oh, you're baby, but like like there's nothing like my is she was born not alive. Like there was nothing in this world that she had or life to whatever that people could refer to her to. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:01

Yes, I do know what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:03

Is that like hired or you never really thought about that?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:06

I never thought about that because people never referred to her. She's she's a gift that I have between me, myself, and Hashem, and it feels so wholesome and intimate and private and special. Um, and also between me, myself, and my husband. But there's something even more special just between me, myself, and Hashem, because the baby was growing in my womb, in my body, and I was connecting to her every single day in a very spiritual way. So, no, I I'm not gonna connect to this baby with physical objects like shoes or whatever it is, because I I never experienced that with her, right? So it was a very, very spiritual connection. And like I said in the beginning of the podcast, I connect with her through chala. I took upon chala because of her. I connect to her anytime. I read to Halim anytime, any really almost any time I do a Mitsu, I think of her. So it's really, really special, and that's my way of connecting to her. And the piece of like other people being able to connect to her, no, they're not able to, and that's okay for me. And it actually feels better for me because they weren't in my story, so they don't know what I went through. And this is a piece that's for me and God and my husband to experience, and in a way that's very special.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

It is, it's so it's so like healthy that you know what like what's private to you, you don't need the whole world to know. Like when you could use support from people, when like what's just you know for you, you and your husband, and I think that's like amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:35

Yeah, thank you. And of course, I shared my story publicly, and I'm doing so right now on the podcast, and that's because I maybe this will help someone, maybe this will give some comfort or some support in any way, right? And that's really why I'm sharing.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:52

Wow. Okay, thank you so much. Are there any messages that we left out that uh you want to end off with? I feel like we covered a lot, but maybe there's something.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:02

We covered a lot, yeah. We covered a lot. I think just like be gentle with yourself or anyone listening. You are you, Hashem created you in your very own way, and every person going through grief and loss processes in a very different way and give yourself that gentleness and grace that you deserve because you deserve it. And process your emotions, sit with yourself, you know. It's it's okay to not be okay, and then it's also okay to desire to get back to yourself again and take those micro steps to get there. Just be gentle. It's it's it's a journey, it's a process.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:46

Okay, well, thank you so so much. And I hope Amir Tishem one day soon will hear the sewer's tobos. The healthy baby should be. Amen. And yes, any anything that anyone gains from this, it should be an aliyah for her nishema. And again, thank you so much for coming in. Amen. Thank you so much, Miriam.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:07

You've just listened to an episode of the Grief Journey Podcast with Miriam Ribbiat, brought to you by Mayrim. For more episodes, visit the Mayrim website at www.mayrim.org. Help us reach more people who might benefit from this podcast. If you know someone who could find it helpful, please share it with them. If you have questions or comments for the speaker, or if you'd like to suggest a guest for the podcast, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at relieffromgrief at mahrim.org. We look forward to having you join us in the next episode.