Mrs. Sarah Rosner: A Mother’s Love: Fierce, Faithful, Forever

Yossi was thriving in his yeshiva in Florida. But like any bochur, he was ready for bein hazmanim. Within the first few days of being home, though, his father noticed that Yossi was walking strangely. And after that, things seemed to get worse and worse.

It was during COVID, and getting an appointment with a specialized pediatric neurologist was not easy. But, as only a mother can, Sarah called one doctor after another, persevering until she managed to get Yosef seen by a doctor at CHOP Hospital.

Once he was there, things declined rapidly. The diagnosis of a brain tumor was not a surprise—but what shocked everyone was how quickly Yosef was deteriorating. This young, healthy teenage boy, who had barely ever caught a cold, was suddenly losing all function.

Sarah was the most devoted mother, lovingly caring for her son through it all.

It has now been three years since his petirah. Sarah continues to work on deepening her connection to Hashem, understanding the mind-body connection, and supporting others who find themselves in harrowing situations.

YouTube: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsK24OSmIYG_XWzeplhfmb8LJcWKphITh&si=untn3fmHLLaEEFNm

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/relief-from-grief-by-mayrim/id1788349916

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3AvWNp0DrHqE5AVYJHooiK?si=ufpIObuGRumS5uFXmvrpgA 

Questions or feedback? Email me at: podcast@mayrim.org

Transcript

Welcome And Mission Of Mayrim

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Grief Journey Podcast, hosted by Mrs. Miriam Ribiet and brought to you by Mayrim. Mayrim is an organization dedicated to supporting families who have experienced the loss of a child. It was found at the Eloy Nishmas, Nahamaliba, and Miriam Holman. Despite her illness, Miriam devoted herself to addressing the needs of parents and siblings, grappling with the immense pain of losing a child. She felt this loss deeply, having experienced it firsthand when her older sister, Nahama Libak, passed away. Mayrim continues to uplift and expand on the work Miriam began, a mission carried forward by her parents with great dedication. If you have any questions or comments for the speaker, or if you would like to suggest a guest for the podcast, please email us at relieffromgrief at mayrim.org.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Hi everyone. Thank you so so much for joining us here today on the Grief Journey

Meet Sarah: Nutrition, Coaching, Music

SPEAKER_02 1:03

podcast. Today, Mrs. Sarah Reisner is here. She lives in Philly. Mrs. Rasner is certified in nutrition. She's also certified in cancer coaching. And she's also currently getting certified in mind body healing. And we will also talk about her love for music. She's a big violinist and how that helps helped her on her grief journey. So thank you so so much for coming on. Really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Thank you so much for inviting me onto your podcast. I'm a big fan of your work. I think you're doing amazing things in the area of grief and you know, bringing bringing a lot of light onto the issue and a lot of uh giving a lot of people music on this journey of grief.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Thank you. That's so nice. I appreciate that. Okay, so why don't we start off with your story? Maybe you could tell us a little bit about your son and what happened to

Family Roots And Move To Philly

SPEAKER_02 2:00

him.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Right. So my story, um it's hard to know where to begin, but I'm a mother of three, and my husband and I were Balichuva down in North Carolina. Um, this was many, many a year ago. Don't know what how to count them, but um, we started on our journey together and met at the university upon my graduation, not long after we got married and started our family. I lived in North Carolina for about 10 years and then realized for purposes mainly of Hinoch for our children, that the Carolinas were really not the place to stay for us. And we found Philadelphia was a great area that was growing and a lot of infrastructure, a lot of a lot of opportunities in the Jewish community to uh live and grow our family for their needs. And so we settled here and um we kept busy. So when we moved to Philly, our children were eight, five, and almost three. And um, you know, we again kept busy

Yessi’s Energy And School Struggles

SPEAKER_01 3:20

all the ups and downs of adjusting to life in a new place and becoming part of the community. So my middle son, Yesse, um was always a very energetic kid from the time he was a baby. He was a very happy baby, lots of energy. Um, you could just sense he his energy again from a small age. He had the biggest smile with a dimple on one side of his cheek and had so many interests and got into so many things, sports and other activities. And, you know, as he grew older, we we recognized that you know it was hard to kind of keep him centered. And we realized, yeah, a lot of a little bit of uh hyperactivity and attention. So we did realize that he had some a bit of ADHD, which we tried to support him with and manage. And as he got older, you know, we had our challenges trying to fit him into the to the day school system. Extremely bright child and went through ups and downs. I'll quickly run through some of the episodes during those years was my my mother fell ill and passed from cancer while my kids were young, and then I fell ill with cancer during that time. Um I'm doing well and healthy now, but we had a lot of challenges during the years of raising our children, and then of course, COVID hit and that changed um how things functioned in the entire world. So, again, more challenges to face. Um and at the tail end of COVID during the Omicron variant, and

Finding The Right Yeshiva

SPEAKER_01 5:05

we had just found an amazing yeshiva for our son Yesse, because as I mentioned, he wasn't a fit-in-the-box kind of kid. And how old was he at this point? So he was he was in ninth grade, and I spent the entire year while he was in ninth grade searching for the right school for him because I realized that year that none of the schools in Philadelphia in Philadelphia really had enough supports for him. Um, you know, he had a lot of strengths academically, very brilliant, high, high IQ, and very creative, energetic, sporty, and all of these other things. But in terms of his behavior and activity and ability to focus, and obviously COVID didn't help a bit with any of these kids around that had these types of struggles, made it even more challenging with all the restrictions. Um and so I it actually became almost my full-time job at that point to find the right educational environment for Yessi. And I think this is how it works sometimes, just when you feel like you're you're gonna give up or there's nothing left to do, or you're just at, you know, the the tail at the very end of your rope.

Winter Break And Sudden Symptoms

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Um, you know, Hashem opens up the skies and lands something in your lap. And we found an amazing yeshiva down in North Miami Beach through a lot of networking that just from one conversation with the Rosh Yeshiva, I felt like, well, this place looks seems like a good fit for my son amazingly, and things went really quickly. We applied and interviewed, got in. And even though I know our son Yesse was a bit scared at the time since other than summer programs, never lived away from home. But we're like, you're giving this a try. We're sending you there, and it's you know, um, just give it a try. I think you're you're gonna do really well there and connect. And, you know, I didn't read we didn't really even give it an option at the time. There was there were no options left here. And we're like, this is this is what you're gonna do. And he was very brave and willing to give it a try. And after some time, you know, several weeks of adjustment, he really flourished in this yeshiva down in in Miami, which it's now moved to Lakewood. I'll give it a shout out. Its name is Dorish for Boys, run by Rabbi Salfer. And at the time it was down in in Miami Beach, and he thrived. He loved it there, made friends, was doing well in Kodesh and secular subjects. It was like, it was like a dream come true. Honestly, he was doing so well and amazing. Now comes the kind of the hard part of the story is that during break, he had a flight home for winter

ER Rush And The MRI Ordeal

SPEAKER_01 8:00

break of his 10th grade year. And um, he again sounded just so amazing on the phone. He was so happy, so excited to come home, you know, being more active and helpful, like, you know, offering to do his own laundry, cooking, all these things. I was like, wow, like he's really shining. And this again was the middle of the Omicron variant. Um, when he came home, within a few days, we all came down with COVID. And we're like, okay, so we'll, you know, seclude, like we'll we'll stay at home, do all of the regulations, whatever it is, no big deal. This is not such a strong variant, you know. None of us were crazy sick, you know, sniffly noses and cough and whatever. And then my husband notices something going on with Yesse. Something was a little bit different. He was my husband noticed first, but he said, it looks like Yesse is limping. Like it looks like he's wobbling when he's he's not walking normally. Like, you know what a normal stride is when you walk, and he's like, something's not right. Like there's something, something's going on. And I remember kind of calling Yesse and being like, Hey, can you like walk here to the door? And he'd walk, and I'd see like he was like, Yeah, he was like lopsided, something was strange. And then I also noticed, and my husband noticed, that when he talked, it was like he started like slurring his words. And so I said, Yesie, can you read this for me? Can you please?

The Diagnosis: Diffuse Midline Glioma

SPEAKER_01 9:30

And he'd read, and I'm like, something's not quite right. And I'm not like, you know, the sky is falling type of person. Like I'm always the one that stays calm and is like, no big deal. I'm sure it's something we can figure out. We'll solve this. You know, I'll talk to a doctor, we'll figure this out. Maybe this is some really strange reaction. I was really stuck on the idea that it was like some strange neurological reaction to COVID. I was I was really stuck in my mind because you heard all sorts of stories of things that happen to people with COVID. So um each day he got more and more symptoms and was losing function to the point where he couldn't even lift his hand to get food to his mouth on a U-tent, like, and he was limping to the point where he couldn't even walk. And this was happening so quickly from one day to the next. And I was frantic to try and find a doctor to see him, and pediatric offices were not even seeing patients, and like there were so many restrictions at that point, and I was like, you know, he needs I need to bring him in to see someone. There's something really wrong. So I brought him to an urgent care, and then the urgent care doctor said, um, you know, there's definitely something going on neurologically. Um, you could go to the ER. Um, so I um I didn't know. Like I know going to the ER, especially at this time, was kind of like not something I really wanted to do. Um, and I was also on the phone with

Radiation And A Mother’s Vigil

SPEAKER_01 11:00

my brother, who's um an emergency medical doctor in upstate New York. And on the phone with my brother, the moment I started describing all the symptoms, he's like, yes, he needs to see a pediatric neurologist, ASAP. Like none of these symptoms are good. Like he needs to get into a doctor A. So I called CHOP, which is like the biggest children's hospital that I figured had the most specialist. And again, like, you know, there's all of these little glimpses of whether it's miracles or khesed from Hashem, you know, both with him being home when he got sick. I could have only imagined what would happen if this all happened when he was, you know, far away from home. And then also being able to get into a doctor right away, because initially the doctor said, um, your son, or we have no space. The earliest he can get an appointment with a neurologist is like in three months, which is very typical with specialists. And I said, no, no, no, like I he needs to be seen right away. And they said, okay, we'll put you um, you know, on our wait list and we'll call you as soon as possible. So there I was. I was like, okay, you know, he needs to see a doctor. And if they don't call back right away, you know, maybe I just need to take him straight to the emergency room. In the meantime, I was using all of the supports locally in Philly from Beaker Holm and things like trying to get him like um a wheelchair and like a chair for the shower and all the things because all of his function kept going down, down, down, like, you know, becoming much more non-functional physically and verbally. So, you know, I was trying to coordinate all of these things and then making sure he's hydrated and things, he kept throwing everything up. Like anytime he'd eat something within, I don't remember exactly how long, but it would not stay down. So I was constantly cleaning up after him. He wasn't holding anything down, he was looking sicker by the moment. And um so I again miraculously got a call and said, actually, we have an appointment open tomorrow. Someone canceled to get in. And I'm like, okay, we're taking

Faith, Anger, And Holding On

SPEAKER_01 13:10

it. And um I told my husband, you need to come with me. Number one, like, I didn't know what's gonna happen. Number two, he's a hundred and seventy-five-pound young man, much heavier than me, and I can't handle him by myself. So, so he's like, Okay, I guess this is what we're doing. We picked up the the wheelchair, got him into the car, and um, you know, um drove him over to the hospital, you know, all in the meantime, besides trying to care for his physical needs, trying to calm him down because he could tell by his face and expressions and what few words he had that he was very scared. So we got him to the hospital after a quick look from the neurologist. The neurologist said, all of these signs are not normal. You actually need to take him to the ER, the emergency department. That's how they work. In order to get scans right away, you can't just go to get scans, you have to go through the ER. So at this point, he's um in a wheelchair, and we rush him there, and then at that point, you know, he gets on a bed. Actually, he I think he was on a bed at that point. Um wheeled him in. He's in the ER. And before I know it, I'm like swarmed with a million doctors around me. And actually, skipping a few part parts, he gets an MRI, and um, they should have sedated him, but they didn't, and it terrified him. A child this is a child who never had had

“None Of Your Business” Moment

SPEAKER_01 14:50

a cold once a year, never had any physical illnesses, never had an IV, never had a, you know, going from like a very healthy child who never had any medical intervention to like being poked and prodded and this and that and like all sorts of things, and sticking him in a in a scary tube that the MRI, and he lost it. They couldn't get the scan. And then from what they could get, um, you know, all of a sudden I see a uh seemed like a million doctors surrounding us, but in the small room, lots of people and asking lots of questions and asking Yesse to respond to things in a certain way in all of these tests. Then, you know, an oncologist kind of speaks up and explains what they think they're seeing and that they need more tests and more scans and that they'll um sedate him to get a clearer scan. And um, you know, so he he gets all of these things and intubated to be able to um get more tests done. And in the meantime, I'm like, this makes no sense. I I just it couldn't, I could not process what was happening. I'm like, no, like no, my family's had cancer. Like we've all, you know, they had enough cancer in the family, like, not my child. My child does not have cancer. Like, this is I just blocked it out of my head. I was like, this is not possible. And I was just like, you know, very much in a state of like just trying to hold on, and you know, obviously a little bit of denial maybe about how serious this was. And after he got the MRI and they sat us down. Um, you know, at this point, my son was intubated and uh they sat us down and were like, okay, well, we need to biopsy whatever this is in his brainstem because they saw a mass in his brain stem. And so a biopsy is a full-on um brain surgery uh where they have to open up the brain. So that was a big deal. Um, and then within 24 hours, they came back with the results from that um biopsy and sat us down around a table and basically said, you know, your

Hospice Decisions And Surrender

SPEAKER_01 17:00

son has stage four brain cancer, um diffuse midline glioma is the term. There's other terms for it. It's stage four, and we have no treatment for your son. He's gonna die.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

It's out as stage four. Is that possible? Or like, or just a very fast growing.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

So that um they label it as stage four because of I think because of the location and the rate of growth and the way it, yeah, because right. I don't know exactly how, you know, usually stage four means metastasized, as as you probably know, to other places. But for this um specific cancer, uh use midline glioma, um I think it's you know, very early on, it's already staged at a very high place. And I just remember my whole body kind of shaking being at this very cold conference table with my brother came in, thank God, as support, my brother who's a doctor, and and my husband next to me. And I just, you know, this is kind of news that no parent, no mother would ever imagine being given after, you know, raising a healthy child for, you know, he was uh almost 16 at that point. And I just, it just was like shocking, right, you know, just completely shocking. Like it was really impossible to process everything that was happening and everything that was said at that time. And I just, yeah, like my whole, my whole nervous system was just like shit, you know, just and on overdrive. Um and I remember afterwards kind of lay on kind of the little couch seat area next to my son who's on the hospital bed and intubated and you know, just hooked up to so many

Grief Work And Daily Practice

SPEAKER_01 19:00

things and just like like what what's happening? Like, I I don't understand like what's happening and thinking there has to be something, like Hashem help us. There, there has to be something. And then one of the oncologists who was in the conference with us came in and said, you know, like she was very kind and sensitive. She's like, I can't imagine what you might be feeling or thinking, but I do want to let you know we we will take the best care of him we can in the hospital with, you know, all of his needs, and that for this type of cancer, that there is a possible option to do radiation, proton radiation therapy targeted at the tumor, but it it is very dangerous to do it, and it's not promising any results. And at that point, I'm like, yes, I'm like, we're doing whatever's available, like just all, you know, whatever it has to do. And that was the beginning of um, you know, my son's yes, yes, his cancer journey, and and my family by his side. That was the beginning of a really crazy road.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Wow. And was very, very quick, right? How long was it until he was nifty?

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Right. So the prognosis that they gave us was something like six months. Like most kids, and this is mainly a pediatric, you know, this cancer really shows in children. And Yesy was actually um on the older side to get this terrible disease. A lot of kids that somehow get diffuse midline glioma or diffuse pontiac, uh intrinsic glioma, they're oftentimes really young, like three, four, five, up until 10 to see it in a teenager is is not as common. They don't, you know, sadly we don't have a cure at this point in time. Um, and it often takes over

Music As Medicine And Memory

SPEAKER_01 21:00

within a few months. So they they gave around six months, and my yesse fought for 11 months, so almost a year. And we tried everything and anything and everything. I would would not give up. I refused to to let go of the hope that maybe through some miracle something would help my son. And he was in the hospital this whole time. So it was four months straight in the hospital, um, where he did not leave the hospital. And really, for most of those four months, I didn't leave the hospital. I stayed by his side day and night. Maybe once a week, I'd catch a ride, an Uber, a car home for a few hours just to check on everyone and everything, make sure things were some semi-in order, even though it was pretty chaotic. And yeah, I stayed by his side constant nurses and doctors in and out of the rooms and noises. Anyone who's stayed in a hospital overnight knows that it's not a quiet, peaceful night. There's things binging and dinging and coming in and the trash can. And it's like I I honestly look back at that year and I don't know how I did it. I really don't. Like I was given some kind of extra special strength and ability to keep fighting and doing everything I could to be by his side, and I promised him that I was not gonna go anywhere. And he was very, I think it's important to know that he was mentally, cognitively, completely there, completely aware during this whole time. Even during intubate intubation, there is still often a very, very much a cognitive awareness. And after that initial surgery on his brain, he was completely paralyzed from head

Redefining Relationship After Loss

SPEAKER_01 23:00

to toe. Um, he could move his left two fingers, middle fingers, up and down, and you know, he could wiggle his fingers, and he was actually a lefty, so that was his dominant side. Um, and so we learned some communication with his fingers and his eyes. We tried our best to try and understand what his needs were, um, and to help him the best, the best we could. And so for four months for the first month, uh a little more than a month, month and a half, every day we would uh rush him in an ambulance to the Proton Therapy Radiation Center, you know, hospital of Philadelphia, uh Pennsylvania, um, right across from CHOP. And he would have radiation done on his brainstem, um, which did come with a lot of crazy side effects. It was, you know, extreme what he went through, you know, we don't understand Hashem's ways. That's kind of what I come to. Like the part, there's so much that is hard for me to process and digest, but that, you know, my innocent son had to have so much suffering and physical pain during that last year of his life. It's really beyond my comprehension, even though we know Hashem does everything

Messages Of Connection And Hope

SPEAKER_01 24:30

for a reason and purpose. Um, you know, this was part of his plan.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

But for me as a mother, something I just wanted to touch upon this, upon the whole you know, your relationship with Hashem, especially after, you know, becoming from changing your whole life, moving for the sake of your children, and then losing your mother, you yourself being sick, like, and then when your son got sick, like how did you still hold on to that relationship with him?

SPEAKER_01 24:56

So, like any relationship has its ups and downs, right? So, um, a real relationship is honest and true. And um, to say that I wasn't frustrated or that I would scream or call out or just so upset of just like, you know, my son of anyone of, you know, just don't do this to my child. Like, this is too much to bear, and I I don't understand, you know. I think that there are people that would say, How can you even believe in a God? Like, how can you even believe we believe that God is good? How can you believe in a good God when you've gone through all of this? And my answer, and I'm not the only one, I hear other people who've had many challenges say, How can I not believe in God? Like, what what is there left? I think, you know, maybe Devorey Crimen or some of your other guests like express that, you know, like that people are so surprised, like, you know, you're you're still religious, you're so faithful, you're, you know, all of these things, and like yet all of these things, like how do you do that? Like, how do you still believe? And I I fully feel like, you know, how can I not bel believe that everything is like just complete chaos for nothing? You know, that's just to my core, that never felt right, that doesn't feel right. And I wholeheartedly believe that Hashem is good and everything he does is for the good. I just feel like we're simple human beings that we don't, we can't comprehend what and why and how Hashem does what he does. And but it is work, you know. I I even, you know, I getting close to his yard site is in a few weeks and it's been almost three years. And I go through stages where I'm um, you know, really working on my Amuna and Bitachon. And then there are times

Closing And Listener Outreach

SPEAKER_01 27:00

where, you know, I'm just like, I feel like I'm sinking, and then I'm like, okay, that means I need to keep focused. You know, I need to, I need to do my work, I need to keep going, I need to revisit and keep learning and strengthen myself. What is that?

SPEAKER_02 27:16

What is that work and that learning and that strengthening? Like, how do you do that?

SPEAKER_01 27:20

So it's a good question. I learn, I have kavrusas, I learn with friends, I go to classes. I recently um started, started um before Rosh Hashanah this year, I started every day doing daily learning of Shaar Habitakon, which, you know, I was recommended by someone I respect to have kind of a daily learning schedule for myself, because you know, just like exercise or anything else that you need to, like a muscle that you need to strengthen, whether it's, you know, strengthening your heart, strengthening your legs, you know, your body, spiritually, we need to do the exercises to strengthen, and that it's kind of a false conception to think like either you have a muna or not. Like, no, it doesn't, it doesn't work that way. You know, these are also aspects of ourselves as a as a human being, as spiritual beings, that we need to continuously be putting in the effort. Um and, you know, just like anything else, it is it's easy to, you know, forget at times or slip and fall, and but you get back up again, right? And I think that when someone's in the darkest of pain in a dark area, whether they're physically in pain, which I've had my challenges with illness, or whether you're emotionally in pain and really stretched thin or feeling in like a very dark tunnel, um, feeling you know, the heaviness of grief or whatever it is that um it's that those are the times that is for sure hardest to um to feel to have that you know positive thought and the ability to, I mean, it's what's testing you and those moments are what's testing you really, but you have to really dig, dig very deep to to get to the point of you know, connecting and and accepting and learning and you know continued continued davening and prayers for for help. Really everything comes from Hashem. And you know, I struggle with the concept, you know, I hear well, you know, when someone's in in that darkest place of grief or broken heart. Heartedness, uh, you know, Hashem is the closest. And I think sometimes you might be you're so dysregulated and in so much pain that it's very possible Hashem is very close. But from my personal experience, I don't feel I didn't feel close at those times. I think I feel closest, you know, when I feel, I feel closest. I feel Hashem's presence and more when I feel the love, when I feel the joy, when I feel other times. And but I think that's what Amuna and Betachon are is like holding on on those times that you really don't feel it.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

The most challenging times. You know, none of your business.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Oh, that's right. That's uh a good story or an important story of my journey. Again, by Hashkaka Purtis. Yessi's Roshiva not only was, you know, heads up the school, but he's also a clinical psych psychologist. So he um and they really took to Yesse. Yesie did, you know, was so happy and and did so well during his short time there at the yeshiva. And when I told the rabbi that he was sick, we're in the hospital, and then when we got the results back, and we were all in a state of of shock and pain of you know, learning that this disease that Yesse has is extremely serious. And when I talked to um Rabbi Salfer on the phone, he said, well, he gave me some words of advice and said, You you can feel free to call me at any time. Anytime you need to to call, you need someone to talk with, I'm here for you. And I took him up on that. There's few people I would take up on that, but I um I knew he meant it many times throughout that year of Yesse's illness, I picked up the phone and um called Rabbi Sophor because I knew he could really hear me and guide me. Um so so yeah, so a very, very I don't even have the words, but um one of the most challenging painful moments was um yes, he actually, like I said, after he was in the hospital four months, and then I actually set up an ICU room in my house for him with nurses and round-the-clock care, and I learned how to kind of be his nurse and his full-time caregiver for close to four months in our home. And there was a lot of back and forth. I had to rush him to the hospital for different treatments or emergencies or different things. Like we always had an ambulance at our house, like, here the sirens go again. But, you know, this was part of the the journey, and um it got to a point where he his functions were really declining. His cognitive awareness, he he went into um a coma. Um he could no longer respond to us. And when he got um a test, I guess this was nine months in to his illness, they did an updated MRI, which they would do every few months. And the doctor came in to the hospital room. Of course, me sitting there as always by my child and knowing she had the results, and she came in early in the morning, which they often do, and she sits down with me and starts explaining what she saw in the scan. And the way she described it did not sound good. And then she's like, Well, do you want to see the scan? I'm like, Yes, I I want to see everything. I was I'm one of those mothers that wants to know everything, wants to see everything, wants to, and I looked at the skin and I was like, like my heart just sank because she was basically saying, like, it's grown so much, there's really no turning back, like it's taking over his entire functions, and that soon his lungs and heart would stop. And that this was really getting towards the end, and that we should really consider comfort care, hospice care. Again, I'm like, even though I knew this was a possibility, I'm a very practical, like I'm I don't live in disguise. Like I I know what is, and I'm very aware, even though I'm, you know, a very hopeful person, but I knew exactly the entire time what was happening. And, you know, my heart just was sinking. It just like, you know, she left the room and and this is like, you know, your worst nightmare come true. And I just um crawled into the, you know, to the bathroom shower stall and just started sobbing uncontrollably. Like I just I couldn't, you know, it was just too much. It was just like that was that turning point where I just felt there was no turning back on this and that this is also part of Hashem's plan. And I just it was just so painful. Like, how how do I say goodbye to my child? Like, how how is this even happening? Right. So I um I was, you know, crying and thinking, okay, okay, you know, this is like my heart is just breaking into so many pieces. And I'm like, I I have to get out. Like, how do how do I do this? How do I go on? What am I supposed to do? And those were the moments that I would call Yesse's Rebbe and I picked up the phone. I don't even know. I guess this was early in the morning. I didn't know time was such a blur. And he picked up the phone, and you know, it didn't take but a few seconds for him to tell, like, okay, something's not quite right here. You know, like I know, you know, Mrs. Rosner is going through a lot, but like she's very overwhelmed and upset. And when I started expressing that, you know, there's no turning back, there's nothing the doctors can do, we've tried everything and and the tumor is taking over and we're getting close. And, you know, he tried his best to calm me down and telling me some stories um of other people he knows and community members and people who've lost children. And then there was kind of a long pause, and he says, Mrs. Rosner, um, I'm about to tell you something, and you're you're an intelligent woman, so I know you'll understand. And then another pause, and then he says, This is none of your business. And like it just like hit me at that moment, like, yeah, this, none of this, you know, Hashem does has a plan for everything, and it's not my job to understand this plan. Like, it's painful, but asking why over and over, this is not helping me, it's not helping anyone. It's, you know, Hashem has a plan, and it's um, you know, you know, part of the journey is recognizing that it's not my business, you know, this is Hashem's world. Hashem created it to run a certain way. You know, I always think of the story of Rabbi Akiva like such a holy, holy learned man and that his life ended in the way it did. And you know, how do we understand? There's no possible way. There's no possible way. It's beyond our comprehension. So the only thing you're left to do is is surrender. But the moment he said that it did hit me, and I was in pain, and it doesn't make the pain go away, but it just kind of reframed my the way I saw what was happening and what my job was at that moment.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

It's like that reminder that there really is Hashem and we're not gonna understand, but there he really is here and there's a reason for this. In general, you describe yourself as not a why-me kind of a person, but more of a like a what what next kind of a person, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Right, right. You know, I I um not that I don't have my questions, but I I also recognize that it's not helping me or anyone around me to be stuck in those questions and that I never saw myself as a victim in any way, and you know, to kind of like what my story was pointing to, that, you know, it's it's more of what we do with our situations, with our challenges in life that's more important. So, how can I learn and grow from what is happening? And how can I help other people with the knowledge and experience that I have and have had through my lifetime? Kind of like the question is, Hashem, what do you want from me now? What am I supposed to do now? So, how how can I become better? How can I make the world better? You know, what now? What do I do? And sometimes when you're in the crucible, when you're being ground, and and all you can focus on on is that second, that minute. Like that is that is your avota in that moment. Like, okay, you know, for that year that I took care of Yesse, like that was what I was supposed to do. That was that was my work in the world was to take care of yesy. And, you know, then afterwards, it's you know, learning to take one step at a time of like, okay, how do I heal? And then through the journey of healing, how can I help others in their journey healing? So um that's kind of how I see it. You know, I could ask Hashem like, why did you choose me? Like, really? You could have chosen so many other people in this world, but you know, and I have my moments where I'm kind of feeling that way, and then I pick myself up again and and keep going. Very much human. So were you able to play the violin that first year? Oh, while Yesse was sick or the year afterwards, or um, what specifically is the question?

SPEAKER_02 40:58

I was asking about the the year after, the first year after he was the year after.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

So I will say during Yesse's illness, I played music for him and other children in the hospital, which was really uplifting to so many people, and it was very healing for myself. I also would play my violin to my mother while she was very ill, and I knew it was very comforting to her. And so part of, you know, it's like the music is an expression, you know, expression of feelings, of of love, of happiness. Like music, we know, like can just express so much more than words. And so it is the year after Yesse passed, I jumped right back into my music teaching. So I still had students. And little by little I started playing more for myself and connected with other women musicians in my area. Um, we we've created a little bit of a a women's band and Kumsitz group, which has been really fun that we get together periodically um to make music together. So um yeah, music is definitely it kind of runs in my blood. My family get through my mother's side. We have a lot of music and it is it is healing in many ways. Like um, I'm sure you've heard of music therapy and all there's all sorts of therapies out there. So it's it's one of the ways that I um I help myself on my journey. It's I feel very blessed to have music in my life, to be given the ability to play music. So yeah, yeah, music is I can't imagine life without music, honestly. Such a big part of my life.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

It's interesting because I think some you know, grieving parents say about music that that's what comforts them and that's what they need a lot of, and others are the exact opposite. It just turns on the emotions and they couldn't listen for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

So it's just yeah, I can understand that. Um, you know, grief is very can be very, very overwhelming. And you know, everyone is kind of like writing that um the edge of in order to heal, you have to do the grief. There's a saying that I really hold on to, I I believe is a true statement that in order to heal it, you have to feel it, or you have to feel it to heal it. One way, you know, both the same thing. But you have to feel, you have to grieve, you have to go to that place, you have to do that emotional worth in order to heal. You know, some people, um, for whatever reason may skip over the grief because they either can't handle it or they're not in a place in their lives where they feel like they can do that, but it will come back. Like until you actually do the grief work, it's gonna be there. And it's a process. And I think that that grief is not something that ever really completely goes away, but it changes in time. And I can say that from my own experience as I've now experienced three years, almost three years since Yesse passed that each month and each year I start feeling differently, and that it's healthy to feel a shift and change through time as you grieve. We're not designed and wired to be able to hold the intensity of grief that you can experience early on. I believe, you know, that's one of the reasons of the structure we have in our traditions of having, you know, the the Shiva and the Shloshim and the first year and all of these things. So to kind of guide a grieving person, a person mourning through that experience. But grief is for sure unique to every individual and to every person that they're grieving because it's all about that unique relationship. So my grief for my son is unique, it's not the same as my husband or my other children or my parents or whatever. Like your grief for that particular person is very unique to yourself. And, you know, it's it was just thinking off the top of my head, but I believe Rabbi Shays Tal, um uh Chabad Rabbi, I I watched some of his, you know, podcasts or things online. He posted a really short video at one point that said, grief is not the end of a relationship, it's a beginning of a much deeper phase of a relationship. And I thought that was so beautiful. Like I had to really contemplate and think about that of like, wow, like, yeah, like our nishamas never end, right? So our our relationship never ends. So it's only a different phase. Um, and to think of it as a deeper connection and a closer relationship, I just thought that was very beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

So interesting. I would think a different kind of relationship, but deeper, I I guess.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

Right. It's just it's changed, like you said. It's changed that it's less on the physical plane and more on the spiritual plane. And, you know, I feel his energy, I feel his uh smile. Um I always say, you know, he's he is my Simcha, like he is my joy. We named him Yosef Simcha and added Chaim when he became ill. And um I really believe that the name fit him like so well that he just, as I said, from from such an early stage, he just had such exuberance and excitement and energy and joy to him, to his life. And even even the entire year of his illness, the amount of joy he brought by his presence to the people around him and his humor, like we would learn to play games and tell jokes. It was just like unbelievable. Like he just like in I can't imagine, like it brings me to tears to think of the physical pain he was under, the amount of duress. And yet he was still fully there, his personality, his excitement, his joy, and I I really, you know, I hold on to that, I connect to that and all of the the beautiful moments we had together.

SPEAKER_02 47:50

So nice. Okay, so let me ask you. I mean, as you know, uh I always end off with if there's any um, you know, mess messages that you want to leave with the audience.

SPEAKER_01 47:59

Right. Um, hadn't thought about that one. Any messages. Well, like I started off by saying that um your podcast, I feel is is just so important. Um, it's really so important to to discuss these topics, to be out in the open, for people going through loss and grief to feel not alone, to feel to hear other people's stories, to hear about their personal journeys and and what works for them and and what doesn't, and for everyone to realize there is a path forward. And um, you know, as as you say, like relief from grief, right? That there is relief and there is hope and there is positivity and change, and that yeah, that we have to connect with each other. I would I would end by saying that it's important to connect with each other and with others. We, as people, we're designed to live together, we're not lonely islands, and that we can really lift each other up, give each other music, and that there are so many healing modalities out there. As I mentioned, I'm into several of them, and that there is healing and hope. Okay, well, thank you so so much for coming on.

SPEAKER_02 49:23

I really, really appreciate it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

You've just listened to an episode of the Grief Journey Podcast with Miriam Ribiett, brought to you by Mayrim. For more episodes, visit the Mayrim website at www.mayrim.org. Help us reach more people who might benefit from this podcast. If you know someone who could find it helpful, please share it with them. If you have questions or comments for the speaker, or if you'd like to suggest a guest for the podcast, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at relieffromgrief at mahrim.org. We look forward to having you join us in the next episode.