Mrs.Chaya Teldon; A minute and Forever

Grief can feel like a minute and forever.
In this episode, a mother shares her journey with a son who lived with cystic fibrosis, underwent a double lung transplant, celebrated his bar mitzvah, and was niftar shortly after.

We talk about the quiet choices that shape a family in loss: keeping life fair for siblings during endless hospital stays, preserving normalcy with schoolwork and chores, and refusing to erase a child’s presence from the home. She shares simple line, that is anything but simple. It is not bad, it’s sad; hold pain and joy in the same heart. She talks about how yearly milestones, and daily tefillah can hold you when answers can’t.

For those unsure where to begin, she offers small, doable steps: such as saying a perek of Tehillim tied to a child’s age, and treating each mitzvah as a deposit in a loved one’s “account.” Along the way, her husband’s book, Eight Paths of Purpose, emerges as a gentle field guide for hard seasons.

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Questions or feedback? Email me at: podcast@mayrim.org

Transcript

Welcome & Mayrim’s Mission

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Grief Journey Podcast, hosted by Mrs. Miriam Ribiet and brought to you by Mayrim. Mayrim is an organization dedicated to supporting families who have experienced the loss of a child. It was founded with Iloy Nishmas Nachama Leepa and Miriam Holman. Despite her illness, Miriam devoted herself to addressing the needs of parents and siblings grappling with the immense pain of losing a child. She felt this loss deeply, having experienced it firsthand when her older sister Nohamaliba passed away. Mayrim continues to uplift and expand on the work Miriam began, a mission carried forward by her parents with great dedication. If you have any questions or comments for the speaker, or if you would like to suggest a guest for the podcast, please email us at relieffromgrief at mayrim.org.

Meet Mrs. Chaya: Family And Shlichus

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Hi, everybody. Thank you so much for joining me here today on the Grief Journey Podcast by Mayrim. Um I'm very, very excited today. We have Mrs. Chayat Heldon. She is actually the founder of Chabad of Long Island. They currently have 55 Stuchim and 45 centers. So wow, thank you so much. You must be very busy. Thank you so much for taking your time to come on today.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

I'm a co-founder together with my husband.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

A co-founder, okay.

unknown 1:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Well, Stuchem are teams, that we know. They're husband and wife teams. So that's right, that's right. Um, okay, so maybe if you could just tell us a little bit about your story, your son.

Barak’s Birth And CF Diagnosis

Childhood, Hospital “Tune-Ups,” And Home Life

The Lung Transplant Journey In St. Louis

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Okay, so we hope have to go back a few years. Our son, Barak Nissan, Oliver Shalom, our oldest, was born in 1977. Um78, sorry. And he was born on a Shabbos and he needed surgery that uh afternoon. He had um, we found out it was cystic fibrosis. Uh in those days there was no Dariusurin, there was no genetic testing, and apparently my husband and I are both carriers for the cystic fibrosis gene. Um, he recovered beautifully from the surgery, thank God. And our journey began with him. Uh, cystic fibrosis is a genetic disease, it gets progressively worse. Uh, thickening of the mucus and the lungs, breathing is complicated, and he had an additional um chapter that he had what's called Meconium ileus, where his digestive system wasn't working so properly, and he couldn't absorb food basically. He had to take um medication from the get-go for all the years. I'm happy to say, just to fast forward, that people who are born with cystic fibrosis today and the treatment and the care has advanced incredibly, and the the um survival rate is is much, much longer. Uh, when we had Barak, the prognosis was not grand, and indeed it got progressively worse. He was in the hospital quite often. We called it a tune-up. He would have to go in to get his lungs cleared out from pneumonia, uh, would be home and then go back into the hospital. Um, it became more much more frequent. Did he have any like regular periods of just being a child? Yeah, he was in school whenever he could be in school. I I was pretty tough, meaning um you have homework, you have to do your homework, you have to clean your room. Like there was no cutting him slack. Um, but when he was in the hospital, he did get a lot of gifts, a lot of bribes, and uh a lot of treats. Tried to share it with the other siblings. Bar Hashem, we have uh other kids who have all been tested and are not carriers of the CF gene. But uh I wanted to avoid jealousy with the with his siblings and tried my best to smooth it out. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't work. Um, but by the time he was 12, there were no more options basically until our very courageous doctor, Dr. Korvoy Oliver Shalom, suggested a lung transplant. And um we looked at different centers, and there was a center in St. Louis, which Bash Gaha Pratis, my in-laws lived three blocks from the hospital.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Oh wow!

SPEAKER_02 4:46

Yeah, and so when he was accepted as a candidate for a lung transplant, um I stayed in St. Louis with him. He was listed for a good few weeks. I carried a beeper. Uh, one time my beeper went off, meaning there's potential lungs, and I got a ticket for speeding. I had to appeal in court, and Bach came with me. This was after his lung transplant, and a nice Jewish judge let us off the hook. And um, but it was a very tense time. My husband played Mr. Mom in the house. My husband has many qualities. Cooking and kitchen duty is not one of them. So I think my boys had a lot of frozen pizza and a lot of fish sticks, which they don't eat to this day. I wonder if there's a connection there. And um, he had uh a double lung transplant, which at that time he was the youngest cystic fibrosis patient in the country to have gone through this procedure. We were thrilled. He celebrated a bar mitzvah, and my one of my favorite scenes, pictures, is Barak and his doctor up on a chair, and we called it a celebration of life.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Wow.

Bar Mitzvah Joy, Rejection, And Loss

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Shortly after that rejection set in, and because it was a new procedure, um they didn't know really what to do. And his lung transplant was in October. The following um the following year, we went back, uh, we were listed for a second transplant, and unfortunately, um his lungs could not hold out until that transplant came forth. Um and he passed away in Tamuz of the following year, in June the following year. So he was 14? He was 13. He celebrated his bar mitzvah at the March. Oh, it's not the following year. He celebrated his bar mitzvah in March, and by June there was rejection, and he passed away.

Memory, Duality Of Grief, And Continuing Life

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Wow, wow. So could we just talk about something? This is many years ago, 1988 or something like that. And I I think it's I'm not sure exactly what I want to say, but something that like I'm amazed at. I don't know if the word is amazed. Like I see how your pain is still so there, the all the details that you remember, and like everything has to be so correct, like you, you like like you still like almost like you're holding on to everything, but not in a bad way. But at the same time, I know that you moved on. I know that kind of how you have, you know, a large family and children and grandchildren, and I mean you're running this whole center. Like, I know that you, you know, you're a very productive person. But I think it's so important for parents to hear how like their child will never be forgotten and the details won't be forgotten, and they could hold on forever and they could still have a really good life, even if they always remember and they always feel that pain a little bit, but the pain does get like a little better, right?

Purpose, Tests, And Teaching Through Pain

SPEAKER_02 8:02

So when people say how long has it been, I say a minute and forever. Wow, and it's that duality that in a second I could go there, I could be there, I could cry. I reached for a salad dressing once in the grocery store that he liked, and I had to leave my cart there and walk out. And I'm a pretty, I'm a pretty strong person. On the other hand, life does continue. We learned that from Halacha, we learned that from Shiva. After a year, we can transition. Now you can't commend anybody in terms of emotions, how to feel, stop feeling, yes, feel. But we're not, I don't think, I don't, I haven't been taught that we remain in crisis mode and and with all due respect to Italian culture, you know, the quintessential Italian widow dressed in black forever, and you say, How long has it been? And she says 37 years. Um, I don't think that's a Torah way to do it. We feel pain, we have a left ventricle and a right ventricle of our heart, and we can feel two seemingly opposite emotions at the same time. And I remember when our next son got married, and I thought, how can I take a picture when somebody's missing? But you know what? You do, and they were real smiles and real tears, and that's the human experience. We're we're supposed to continue. I don't want to say move on, and there's no measurement that you know you can check off. Oh, I'm in a I'm in the right box right now, but we're supposed to continue living. Viharayam, the proof I'm here, and he's not. And that means that I still have something to accomplish in this world. I'm wearing black now, but I look skinnier in black, but I can wear colors and and I can laugh nowadays, and I could have me a good cry.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Wow, that's amazing! Yeah. Do you ever wonder um like what his tafkid was? Like, do you you know, play Hashem, I guess? Like, I think this is what his tafkid was. So, you know what?

Talking About Death With A Child

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Every soul comes into this world for a reason, and we live our lives, and it doesn't come with a neon sign, this is your purpose right here, right now. He made a lot of people happy. The ripple effect of his life is still being felt. Look, I'm on this podcast now. That means that I'm attributing it to him. If I suffered this loss, experienced this loss, I'm a I'm a learner and a teacher at the same time. I still have what to learn and I still have what to share based on our experiences with him. So his purpose, he brought a lot of people to Torah Mitzvahs. Um, even in the hospital, he would see a kosher tray with a different color than the other trays. He would say, Ma, when I would come, Ma, room 312, there's somebody Jewish in that room. Go check it. So I was on duty the whole time. He put a sign on his hospital door each time he was in either Chabad House or Tsivos Hashem. You know, he's a soldier in Hashem's army. He was with the program all the while knowing that Hashem gave him a tremendous test. At his bar mitzvah, he said in his speech that he wrote, We all have tests in life. My muzzle, I got a big test. And that was his attitude. That really was his attitude.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Did he ever talk about dying? Like, was he afraid that that was gonna happen?

Siblings, Naming, And Legacy

Tools For Grief, Community, And Support

Healthy Grief: Compartmentalizing And Simcha

SPEAKER_02 11:50

You know, I might have done things differently if I was as old as I am now and a little bit wiser. I never mentioned him, we never mentioned what his illness was. He looked it up on his own, or he listened when the doctors would talk. Um he probably knew the score, and I came in what I call the back door. I used to read stories about Sadiqim who passed away and the purpose of Nishamas in this world. And um, we all have a purpose and we all have a reason for being here. So it was it was a kind of subtle message that I try to implant. And he passed away on a Monday, the Shabbos before he was niftar. Um, he asked, he was in the hospital, we were in St. Louis, and he said, uh he said, Ma, what's it like to die? And I said, you know, from the Nishama, it doesn't hurt. It's like passing from one room to another room. And our job is to say Shma Yisral when we can do that. And um and that was the conversation that we had. It's passing from one room to the next. Was it the right thing to say? I don't know. Should I have said more? I don't know, but that's also something in the grief community. We can't we can't rewind, we can't go back. And guilt doesn't do anybody any good. It doesn't enhance my life, it doesn't enhance my serving the Abushtar. What is what does guilt accomplish? So I don't really go there. I'm just gonna share one more thing with my boys, with my other boys. The next boy was a year younger, and I have a collection of boys. My youngest is a is a girl, and um I remember and I was expecting her when Barak passed away. So I remember, should we name after Baruch? We shouldn't, we should, we shouldn't. I had five boys. The odds of my having a girl were like, hello, who have we don't we don't do girls, right? And then the Abistadt gehoff, and it was a boy. I mean, it was a girl, it was a girl, so I didn't have to name after Baruch. And um and then my kids got married, and I waited a long time, you know. When your mother-in-law of girls be quite you don't smile a lot and you don't say a word, so it was many years until somebody named their child after Barak. And each time by the briss of another boy, I was and I don't mix in because it's not my job to mix in. They are adults, they're running their own lives, and now Barakashem, I have uh that are named after Barak. There are friends who have named their children after him, and I I am blessed, but I I don't feel some people say, How old would he have been? And my schooling is he was never meant to be this and this old. He came into this world, and the Rebain Shalilam knew in the first place that he's gonna have limited time in this world. What do we what do we teach that his sphere of influence is now 47 years in this world? It's not he would have been 47. I don't I don't go there. What would he have looked like? Who would he have married? Who that it's I don't it's not kosher for me to do that. He was meant to be here 13 years and change, and we were fortunate to have him for that amount of time.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

So his friends, like they could be grandparents by now. Yeah. That doesn't that doesn't you don't let them know because it wasn't he was like not supposed to have that.

Public Mourning And Representing Faith

SPEAKER_02 16:06

What he it wasn't meant to be. It wasn't meant to be. I'm not jealous, um, I could be sad. You know, my daughter was five years old. She was in the we had a station wagon. I don't know if people remember station wagons, but we had a station wagon, and she was sitting there back with her little friend, and and I don't know how the conversation was. Um my brother, you know, we used to say, My brother, um my brother not passed away. We lost a brother, so the kid said, like, go find him. Like, where why why aren't you looking for him? Anyway, she said, My brother died, and the girl, her her little kindergarten friend said, That's very bad. And my daughter said, It's not bad, it's sad. Wow. And I think if we could all, in this crazy club that we belong to, make a needlepoint that would say, It's not bad, it's sad. The Ibn Sh doesn't do bad, he only does good. And how good is he? He doesn't tell us that that my kid is gonna be here only for 13 years and a few months, because what what good would that do? What parent could hold that information?

unknown 17:25

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

So the Ibn Sh doesn't tell us, knowing that we're gonna be upset with him when he has to do what he has to do. But it wasn't a mistake that our children came and had a limited amount of time shorter than we would have liked in this physical world.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

You know, back then there was also like uh probably no, I was gonna say little support, but like no support.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Like now there's so many organizations, no high lifeline, no support, no nothing, nothing.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

So how did you know how to do it?

The Rabbi’s Book: Eight Paths Of Purpose

Faith, Mitzvot, And Meaning Amid Questions

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Well, I'm gonna say that we did what we had to do, and I'm sure there were mistakes along the way. I do my kids need did my kids need therapy? Um, you know, I didn't see any bed wetting, any acting out, any increase in so I assume no. I said to one of my boys, I remember I took him to the park and he was on a swing. I said, you know, when we go for shoes and I measure and we make this, you know, you stand in that footprint and you pinch the toe at the end, but ultimately only you know if it hurts or not. So I'm asking you now, are you okay since Barak left? Or is there a hurt somewhere? And that child said, No, I'm fine. I have adult kids now, I've apologized. You know, I never told my kids that they couldn't catch cystic fibrosis, that it's a it's a sickness that you're born with. I I never verbalized it. Like, on what planet would a parent today, you know, like I like really? So did I make mistakes? Yeah. Did I apologize to some of my kids for my um my guru or my anger sometimes? Yeah, I have done that. But we did the best that we knew how. We did what we knew how.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

And how did they like how did they handle it? I mean, especially the one right under him, they were very close in age. They were close in age.

A Private Loss Shared Publicly: The In-Utero Story

Consolation, Ashgacha, And Daily Strength

SPEAKER_02 19:33

He I think he tucked it in, as we have an expression in our house, you know, you tuck it in. Um I think later on in his older years and his maybe teen years and his early 20s, he had some struggles. Um Abister made it. You know, he was the next sibling. He once said to me, it's a challenge being the oldest child in the family. You know, uh he's a responsible young man, quite successful now, but he's had his struggles. I hope and pray it's made us all more sensitive. Now, I used to be the rabbi's wife that when the rabbi had to go to Shiva, I would say no, or you know, I I'm not needed because I was chicken. I don't do that, I don't do that anymore. You know, I go, I can sit in silence, I don't have to say anything. And if I do need to say something, I speak up. And here where we live on Long Island, there's not it's not a from community, so I I have the opportunity to um to help a lot of people in their grief, and it's a bracha, believe it or not. I can say it's a braha. There's a there's there's an organization for grieving parents here on the island. We went once, it's not a Jewish organization, it's part of and a man gave a mushel, it was brilliant. He says, Um, suppose you want to go fishing, and you take what you think is your fishing box and you open it up and you see it's your toolbox or it's your sewing kit. You have the you have the wrong tools for the necessary situation. So I went once to that meeting and I saw people were just bereft of tools. You we don't we learn about grief in Khumish, you know. We Avramavinu bought Mahpelah for his wife and he paid money and we we learn about death, but I don't know that we have tools for grieving, and maybe that's how the Imsha wanted it, I'm not sure. But at least now we have a support system. We can call somebody. And my in my in my youth it was uh long distance, you know. You paid a lot of money for a long distance phone, but we didn't we didn't call anybody, people don't talk about emotions, so so here we are today, thank goodness. Davening all the while the Mashir should come and we won't have to deal with grief anymore. You know, let there be trias a mesim and let our loved ones come back, and they're gonna tell us incredible stories of what it's like in Ghanaian. But if we're talking about that world, you know it says that um the only pain our loved ones feel is ours. And that's pretty heavy. That means I can cry me a good cry, but I don't want to stay in that place. That's that's how you know you're not depressed. I can get into that mood and then get out of it. If I'm staying there in a dark place, it's not healthy. And we're supposed to serve Ashemba Simcha. That doesn't mean forgetting, it means I'm compartmentalizing my grief right now. Right, just like you know, just like you go to a simcha, you wear something different. You don't wear your school uniform, you don't wear your weekday clothes, we we dress up on yumtif. So we can do that with our emotions as well. Right now, it's appropriate to cry, to be down, but I've gotta, for my own sake, first of all, not not faking it out for everybody else, not for my husband, not for my kids. I have to be me, and I can say to them, you know what, I I I need some time. We call I have to give myself a timeout right now. As long as I can come out of that, I'm in a healthy place.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Right, right. And your grandchildren, like they talk about him, they they know about him, they talk about him, especially the the grandchildren.

Guiding The Not-Yet-Observant Through Grief

SPEAKER_02 23:50

My kids mostly live out of town, they get they come pay safety time, and uh we have a photographer come to take family pictures every second year, like that. And um, and I said, all my grandchildren who are named after my son Barak, I have a picture of that. That's that's a beautiful thing. That's a beautiful thing. Life continues. I want to be in charge of my behavior, not in charge of my circumstances, because that's God's department, but I can be all that I can be, calls man all the while that I'm still here. My goodness, I want to be fully alive, and it's a struggle sometimes, but it's the thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Is it hard for your daughter that she never knew him?

Staying Connected To Souls Through Deeds

Acceptance, Joy, And Carrying On

SPEAKER_02 24:42

She talks about him, she has a son named Baruch, uh, for which I'm grateful. Um and listen, you know, we we we talk about Mashiach, that it's a it's the real deal, and I can't wait until he's here and and we'll have a comp a conversation. Wow. It's not a bubba mice, it's not it's it's we we've and we've got to work to make it happen, all of us. Wow. So let's talk about your husband's book. Yes. My husband wrote a book. This is a commercial, Eight Paths of Purpose. It's on Amazon. It took him 25 years to write the book, and it's the story of his um grief journey. Now, I wanna before the book, the after the summer after Barak when Parak Barak passed away, um, one evening I saw my husband was in Barak's room and he was downing. I don't know if it was Myrav or Krishna, and he's crying. So I'm the good wife, I'm gonna go in and save my husband. So I walked in, and my husband did like this. Like, go out. And I'm first of all, I'm indignant, like, excuse me, what does this mean? So I walked out, and then I realized each person grieves in a different way, and men grieve differently than women. Could be we're more in touch with our emotions. Um I'm I'm not afraid of the word emotion, but a father thinks whether consciously or not, it's their job to protect. Sometimes fathers feel they they didn't do enough, they didn't protect their child.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

You know, I think it's not just their child, but I think they feel, they'll correct me if I'm wrong, that they didn't protect like the whole family from this payment. Yeah, yeah.

Blessings, Hope, And Closing CTA

SPEAKER_02 26:52

But you know what? As as powerful and as wonderful, and as the abuster is the boss, as my kids would say, I'm the boss, applesauce, right? So the abuster is the boss, and he gets to do what he needs to do, so there's that feeling of perhaps failure. I didn't do enough. Um again, I we can rewind. So this is my husband's way of processing. You know, a lot of people said, but you're religious, you know. We have a not very not-from crowd. Um, thinking that from people are excluded, you know, we're we have a protective bubble around us because we're closer to God. It's like, hello, it's equal opportunity life, you know, for everybody. It's not there's not an exclusion over here or exclusive. So that was one thing to deal with. And people watched us to see how we grieve, and our kids watched us. My husband wrote this book, and there was another iteration and another book, and another title, and another, and another, until he felt he had it. And it's about purpose that we have a purpose, that the souls that we interface with, not only in our family, but in the supermarket, the Uber driver, there's a reason that we interface with people. Sometimes we know it and sometimes we don't. But this was his way of processing his grief that sometimes we can understand the Abishter, sometimes we don't understand him. And what to do in those situations when when the grief is raging, where do we put it? How do we turn it down? And um, he put it on Amazon. I was very proud of him. I am very proud of him for writing it and taking the time and having the patience to do it. And um it's a it's a it's a good tool. This is written for the general population, not necessarily for a Jewish or an observant community, um, but it's got some really good tools in it.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

So he wrote it and rewrote it based on like his journey because he changed over time.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Exactly. Vidiook, you know, you you mature, you grow, you process, you understand, or in the areas where you don't understand, you put it down because we can't understand everything, then we'd be God, and we're not supposed to be, so I don't understand asma. So, you know, but we can take it on the smaller microcosm. Your kogel burned, okay, okay. What okay, I don't understand why, or the shiddach fell through. What should I do? That's called life. I don't understand everything, and certainly when it comes to the big things in life, maybe Shad doesn't always ask my opinion, and that's why we have three kinds of mitzvahs. Um Um mishpatin, logical mitzvahs basically, Aidus. You know, I took you out of mitzraim, let's do paysah, and we say, Oh, now I get it. And they gave us chukin, where he says, because I'm God. That's why. Because because kaka. And we're supposed to keep all of those mitzvas on the same as if I understand nothing. Keep a chok as if I understand and keep Mishpatim. Just because we think it's kind to give duqah doesn't mean that's why I do it. I do it because the Ribaya Shalam said so. Right. And the same thing with our lives. You know, stuff happens. And I I want to be able to show up because nobody else can live my life except me. And I think that's a really important tool for the grieving community. Nobody else can be us. And all the while that we're here, we have a purpose. And I want to I want to get an A. I want to get a star. You know, it just says, good on you. Good on you. You did it. It was hard, it was challenging, but good for you.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

So I have two questions, two totally different topics. You could choose which one you want to answer first. One is I'm wondering why your husband, like if he would have done it for a from her for a even Jewish but not like religious population, then there could be a page in there that says like the Ilyanishmas and your son's name, and it just feels like it would be more like sunny. I don't know. Right. I'm just curious, like, you know, why he decided not to do that. And my other question, totally different topic, is really about um what was it like to be public and you had to, you know, publicly mourn and you were looked at as an example, and you there couldn't just be human in public.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

Yeah. Well, good questions. Um, I I I didn't ask my husband this, but um we, as Khabaj Shlulchim, our target audience where we live particularly, is not the observant community. And I think in our experience, my husband saw people really not having tools in their toolbox. And he really feels he he's written another book on on purpose, um, that people don't have a sense of purpose. Some people, when they suffer such a tragedy, such a loss, feel their purpose is over. So he really wanted to get tools out there, and we're so used to dealing with the not observant yet community. Um, it's it was just natural for him to target that audience um and and and reach out to people who are are bereft of tools. That's the that's what I would say about the first thing.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

I guess that's a better um aliyah than having his name written on a page.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

Could be, you know. I'm gonna I don't even know if if I mean it mentions my son, but I don't think it says. Um no, that it doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

Um he did it just for the sake of helping others, so I guess yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Um living in a fishbowl, that is life in general on schlichis, unless you're in an observant community. But we sometimes I feel like we are Hashem's cheerleaders. We are speaking about that. You see my necklace, it says blessed. Oh, I'm trying to see what it says. It says blessed. One of my friends who live here gave it to me, and this is also commercial. Um, we're blessed. I went, I went to uh an appointment this morning, and the gentleman said, How are you? and I said, Thank God. And he himself said, Blessed. Now that's bringing Hashem down into this world in a taxi cab, in a in the grocery store. There's no moment in life that Hashem is not present. So can I be an example for others? Yeah, you know, you're wearing tneeastic of clothing in a place where maybe nobody's sneezy. People aren't sure what you are, but they know you're other. You know, whether it's Shabbos, whether it's groceries. Remember years ago there used to be um um Guinness museum in Manhattan, and one chalomoy we took our boys, and there was the world's largest Raggedy Ann doll, and my boys were climbing on it. So I was able to say in Yiddish to them, smiling, so everybody would think I'm saying, Oh, you're such sweet children. If you don't get off of that doll right now, you're going to get it, you know, when we get so the fact that they had a Yarmulka and Sitis, you represent, and so it's not just in the grief community, a from person represents the Abishar. And I want to be loud and proud. I try to teach my kids that we you're you're a representative. So in grief, um, for the Schleishim was it, or for Burz Yortsite. No, for the Schleishim. We had a gathering. I made a video presentation, not like you do today, it was a slideshow that was good old fashioned. Um, and it was to um the song Nishamalah, you know, Mordechai Ben David originally sang it, come with me, little Nishamala. It was a message to the community, he was here. It's a shudd khaval with such a short life, but for not, one of my friends during Shiva, a friend who wasn't Fun then, but she is now Bar Hashem, said maybe it would have been better if he hadn't been born to spare you the pain. And I'm thinking, that's first of all, we want to write a book, Dummies, morning, mourning for dummies, you know, like that's really not a great thing to say to a parent. You know, um, but the pain wasn't my pain, like the world would have been less if my child hadn't been here. I'm gonna share us a quick story with you. I I was when one time when Bark was in the hospital, I was expecting, and um the doctor, I had had a test which I never had before, and the doctor called and said, You have to come in. I said, Is it a problem with me or the fetus? He said, The fetus. A long story short, I drove, it's called an anencephalic fetus that there's a the baby grows to term, there's but there's no brain stem, and it's a non-viable fetus, and this child is not going to live. And I remember speaking to a rov and a doctor, and a rov and a doctor. I was already in my seventh month, so everybody knew I was expecting, and oh, when are we due? And I'm like, We or what month are we? And I'm like, November. So just you know, how do you anyway? Public life. The doctor, because there was danger to me, and the brev said I could terminate the pregnancy, so I went into the hospital, finished, and came home on Friday, it was Arab Shabbos, and my husband made a speech. Classic male rabbi speech, which I was not able to be macabre then. What was his speech? He said, and I didn't speak to the whole Shabbos, I was so upset, but it is one of the most profound and beautiful things my husband ever shared. And he said, like this Suppose there, imagine there was an ishama that had to be conceived in a kosher fashion, Al Tara Sakhaidesh, and come into this world and just be here seven months in utero to accomplish its purpose. They searched from one end to the other of the world to find a place for this nishama to reside, and they chose us. If the nishama could, it would send a thank you note. Wow. I mean, it doesn't get wiser than that. So I try to inculcate that, to share that with my children, that lesson that whatever transpires, we believe in Ashkah Pratis, whether you lost the race or you got an A on your test, or you got a C on your Gemara. Not my boys, but would it happen that somebody got a gimmel? Anyway, we can't step out of the Avstar's orbit. So if I can accept, and every day in Brahis we say, Don't test me, Hashem. Every morning we say, Lolide Nisayan, don't don't test me. But Misayan is Miloshan Nais miracle, it also means the masthead of a ship. And as the turbulent waters, that is gonna be that banner is gonna be the highest. So it causes us to look up and say, Hashem, is that is that you are you are you talking to me? Are you are you speaking to me? So if if you're speaking to me that language, then talk the talk, but walk the walk with me. And I think that's that is so important for the grieving community. Hashem is walking the walk with us.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

So what happens to someone ta a not from person that comes to you after loss? But like child loss. I mean, I think after any loss is grieving, and they have questions on you know Hashem and everything, but especially a child, it must open up like so many like questions, no?

SPEAKER_02 40:45

So just because I'm angry at Hashem doesn't mean he doesn't exist. I think that's so important. I'm I'm done with you, God. That doesn't erase Hashem, and that's called true. We could come back, we can always go home. We can always go home. I think it's important to listen, not to preach. I just, what's the expression nowadays? I hold space, I hold space for that person. I invite them for Shabbos, I encourage them to um light Shabbos candles. That's a time. Why isn't a shamah and a candle? You know, why do we talk about um anishama being likened to a candle? It's always flickery, it's always going up. Our kids can hear us and and be close and connected to us each time we do a mitzvah, and I I liken it often to um a dormant bank account where they can't make deposits in their account right now, but you and I can. Each time I do, why do we write inside a siddr, you know, the the illi nismas or on the arn Khadesh or Givet Stuck every day? Because we can make deposits in their account, and it's like them receiving an email. Hey, Bark Nis inventivya, you got a message, you know, and each time we do something on our child's account, they they get the message. How how lucky, how fortunate are we? So, to a not observant person, not yet observant, each mitzvah that they do, if if it resonates with them, I tell them to say their child's capital till them. You know, get it get a psalms or go online, and and if you if your kid was 12, then they're in their 13th year, they finished their 12th year and they're on their 13th, so we could say capital your gimmel. That's a direct connection to their soul, and people are so happy to know that there's a way that they can reach their children because they're not limited, they're not a body anymore, they're they're Nishama. So we have to speak. I wouldn't speak French for I don't speak French, I wouldn't speak Swahili now because I don't speak it and you don't understand it. So a soul understands mitzvah language, and we can send them messages, and I find that people find that comforting.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

Wow, that's so nice. Okay, I know that we have to end, but I just have to tell you um what like I thought of while you were talking when you said your son's name, it's such a like godly name, right? Barak blessed Nisim as Nisim and like Tavya, like the Hashem is good.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

Yeah, wow. Yeah. Um, he was born on Rish Khidish Nisin, my husband's birthday month and his favorite month. It's it's the Khadish of Geulah. We we became a people then, and Baruch, he was he was truly a blessing. Is it uh I'm gonna use real long island language, it's a bummer that he it was so short. I don't think it's long annoying, I think it's tea language. You know, sometimes it's just like I'm sorry that I'm speaking so uh uh it's not such a refined term, but would it have been longer? But it is now safe in our house to speak about Barak, to talk about him. Um my grandchildren who never knew him speak about him. Um and it is ours to make um our service to Hashem, like really serving Hashem as an evid, um, where we don't understand the servant just listens to the master. Um, and it could be with tears and it could be with joy. That's life, and it's with an acceptance because schlepping around this heavy, heaviness doesn't let me uh function in life with a full, you know, with a full being. I'm not fully present. So again, I'd like the visual of a ziploc, it can be on the side, I can go there whenever I'm on. It's like chapters in a book. I can go to that chapter like this, geharif I and I can connect, and I can also turn the page, and I think that's important in the early stages of grief. It's nigh impossible to do. But pointing an accusing finger at Hashem and saying, why? Why don't you as a punishment? It was a gift. I know when people say Hashem only tests the strong, I would like to respond, I'd rather be a 90-pound weakling, and I know Hashem tested me. I passed. Could you take your toys and play next door? Like Dayeno, I'm done, I'm done, don't test me again. But life has stuff in it, and we should hold on to the tools that the Torah gives us. And remember that David Ramallah, who was tested mightily, wrote, Ivdua Hashem Bis Simcha. Serve Hashem with joy. Doesn't mean tralala, doesn't mean superficial joy, it means really accepting that which Hashem sent me and being grateful, not anything worse. Being grateful that you trusted me as a servant to to withstand this test. I'm gonna do my best, and I know you're next to me. And there are times when I really need your help, Hashem, and there are times when I can say halil with a full, with a full heart and really, really mean it. So I want to give a bracha that those in this in this club, when Mashiach comes, we are not, we're gonna tear up our membership and we're not going to hang in these circles, but all the while that we're there, a minute longer in Gullis, try to find the positive in life. We're breathing, we say Muja'ani. And Hashem returned our nashomas to me. Let's be grateful for that and and see if you can help somebody else along the way.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

Wow, thank you so, so much for that. I really appreciate you coming in.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

Listen, I I don't want to wish you that you should be out of a job, but when Mashiach comes, you'll just have to do happy podcasts. That's it. I mean, I'm good. I'm good with being out of a job if this is it. Beautiful. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Be well and be blessed.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

You've just listened to an episode of the Grief Journey Podcast with Miriam Ribbiat, brought to you by Mayrim. For more episodes, visit the Mayrim website at www.mayrim.org. Help us reach more people who might benefit from this podcast. If you know someone who could find it helpful, please share it with them. If you have questions or comments for the speaker, or if you'd like to suggest a guest for the podcast, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at relieffromgrief at mahrim.org. We look forward to having you join us in the next episode.