Mrs. Ester Katz Silvers; A Train Crash in the ’60s

It was the 1960s, in Wichita, Kansas. Back then, it was a small town with very few Jews, and the Jewish families stuck together as a close-knit community.

One morning, Ester walked into the kitchen and saw her parents sitting at the table with an open newspaper between them. They were both looking at her — the kind of look that silently says, you tell her.

“What happened?” Ester asked.

“There was an accident,” her parents said. “A car–train accident. Four boys were killed.”

One of them was a boy who worked in her father’s store — just two years older than Esther.

In those days, no one talked about death. You didn’t process it. You didn’t sit with it. You simply went on. And so Esther went on too. Sometimes she thought about the boy, but she told herself to move forward, just like everyone else did.

It wasn’t until many years later, when Ester wrote her first book, that she found herself writing about a train accident — slowly, unknowingly processing a loss that had stayed with her for over twenty years.

Life later brought Ester to Shilo, in Eretz Yisroel, where she and her family were forced to face death again — this time through terror. Her children lost friends. Madrichim were niftar. Loss was no longer distant or unnamed.

And this time, Ester did not turn away.

Her parting message is simple: let them talk.
Today, we have far more resources and support than in the past — but the most important thing remains the same. Children need space to speak, to ask, to remember, and to be heard.

YouTube: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsK24OSmIYG_XWzeplhfmb8LJcWKphITh&si=untn3fmHLLaEEFNm

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/relief-from-grief-by-mayrim/id1788349916

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3AvWNp0DrHqE5AVYJHooiK?si=ufpIObuGRumS5uFXmvrpgA 

Questions or feedback? Email me at: podcast@mayrim.org

Transcript

Welcome And Mission Of Mayrim

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Greek Journey Podcast, hosted by Mr. Miriam Ribbatt and brought to you by Mayripp. Mayrimm is an organization dedicated to supporting families with experience of the loss of a child. It was founded with the class of a Moby Ba and Miriam Holmes. Despite her illness, Miriam devoted herself to addressing the needs of parents' supports, navigating the profound sight of child's loss. Her teeth experience of first hand. Her older sister of a movie but passed away. Miriam continues to honor and expand upon the work Miriam began, with her parents carrying the question for work with unwavering dedication. If you have any questions or comments for the speaker, or if you would like to suggest a guest for the podcast, please email us at podcast at Mayrim.org.

Meet Esther: Early Loss In Wichita

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Hi everybody, thank you so much for joining me here on the um Grief Journey Podcast by Mayrim. Today we have Mrs. Esther Cast Silvers, who is a freelance writer living in RSC Strah, a wife and a mother, and I am very excited. Thank you so much for coming on. My pleasure. Nice to meet you. Same here. Okay, so I let's let's go back to I guess the 60s, right? Let's talk about what happened when you were that young girl and how that impacted your life. Okay, so I lived in a I lived in a small town.

Processing Grief Then Versus Now

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Well the small town then, Wichita, Kansas. And out of 40,000 people, there were about 300 Jewish families. 300 you said? Yeah. So we were all pretty much together. And one of the boys, I think he was two years old older than me. Um he was part of the youth groups, and you know, we knew each other that way, but he also uh worked part-time in my father's store. I did too. He got paid, I didn't, which is fine. I got I got fed, room and board for free. Um, and all the other workers were you know, probably really old, probably in their forties, maybe. I don't know. Maybe they they sound facing dangers. So that was also a bonding. And one third one Friday morning I woke up, my parents had the newspaper on the kitchen table and they were looking at each other, and I like you tell her, you tell her, and there'd been a uh car train wreck with four boys, and he was one of the boys and that were who were killed. And I've had older relatives die, but this is the first contemporary, and it really affected me very much.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Wow. So back in those days, like like did anyone help you like process it or was told like this is what it is and now just move on?

SPEAKER_03 3:08

Yeah, I think that's what it is, and let's move on. So it yeah, I think I you know, like after a terror attack here in Sheila where I live and there's a trail, and and there's been a murder, or even when there's not a murder, you know, the social workers come in, the psycholog psychologists come in, and the rabbis come in and they meet with the kids and and there's all sorts of things going on, but no, there's nothing it was a different world back then.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

So how did you like how did you help yourself? Like how did you like get through it?

SPEAKER_03 3:47

Um, you know, I think when you're young, you just kind of move on. And um I was a sensi I was a sensitive teenager, so it would bother me at times and move on. The thing is, is I remember it was a I to this day I remember he was his mother's only child. It was a second marriage for his father, but he was his mother's only child.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

Right.

SPEAKER_03 4:12

And I remember at the camera her say her saying, Goodbye, my son, goodbye. And I thought, how is she ever going to go on with her life? And uh, half a dozen or some more years later, I was at something. I was visiting my parents and I was at a function with her and talking away, I she seemed fine. I I know from friends who have lost children that there's all there's always something there that says with with you. But she went on. She, you know, she life continued. And that was probably a good lesson for me that, yeah, life continued. The pain never goes away, but life continued. For me, the pain went away because um you know, this wasn't a a real, real part of my life, but right. But with the ones who are close. Pain never goes away, but they continue she wants she continued living and having an expensive life.

Writing As A Vessel For Memory

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Wow. But part of your, I guess, processing it or healing or getting rid of the pain, however you want to say it, was really in your writing, right? You you you wrote about these things in your books. Yeah, well, that happened when I was 16, and that when I first wrote about it, uh I guess I was probably in my forties.

SPEAKER_03 5:33

So I stayed, you know, stayed in my heart there uh for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

And and Which book which book was the first book that you that you wrote it in?

SPEAKER_03 5:43

The first book was Sandersarch. This is it. It was not very successful. It was it's amateurish, and the publisher I worked with, whatever, um, I never got paid for it. So and there's no copies around, which is probably just as well. Um, but it is that the protagonist, uh, it's her cousin who's killed in a car train accident. And it that is what pushes her. That's the crisis for her that makes her make the commitment to become Shuma Shabbat. So which was not my that's not my story, that was that's her story. And um um it was her cousin and and her his sister, her cousin they form a strong relationship from this. She had been the little pest and after her brother's death they became closer and eventually she also became show my shoulder needs the in the book. Right, in the book, okay.

Lessons From A Bereaved Mother

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Wow, wow. So let me ask like this. I know before you mentioned terrorism, but like d did this loss impact how you face the terrorism that you face in Arc Craig these days?

SPEAKER_03 7:14

Okay, I never really thought about it until you asked me that question in a in a WhatsApp a month or two ago. Uh and again, I think seeing that his mother kept going did give me some music.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

It did, really. It like helped you to keep on going. And what about you told me not related to terrorism, that there was a family that three children were killed in a car accident, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:47

That's just true. That was the first loss that we had here in Shiloh. And it was devastating for me. I was expecting my sixth child at the time, so you know when you're expecting you always everything's more emotional. Uh devastating, devastated me. It was uh Mashkiah Sabeshiva and three out of six of his children. And again, you know, the mother kept going. She um she remarried after a few years. Her husband died of cancer, if I'm not mistaken, because they were not she they were not longer living here. And years after that, she came to one evening to give a class on Emuna on faith. And you know, she can do that. Yeah. That's that's a lesson follow us.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Wow. You remember anything that she said that really impacted you? No, just a whole idea.

Terror, Community, And Coping

SPEAKER_03 8:52

But uh another thing is uh I don't know if I mentioned this to you before, when my oldest daughter, my second child, was fifteen months old, she almost drowned. No. Okay, so she almost drowned. And um she was okay. Um We lived in Arizona at this time in Phoenix. There were lots of singles and every year kids drowned. And so there was a question of why was why did she survive and others didn't. And I'd spent a summer dealing with with why and how come. And I came to the conclusion this is what is guiding me off in my life since then is faith doesn't mean thinking nothing bad is going to happen. Faith means thinking that if something bad happened, it's even for the best, even though we can't understand it. And I find myself, you know, turning to that over and over and over again. Good life, 'cause there's a lot of things that don't seem like they're good. Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Wow. And then you had to deal with your with your children losing friends to terrorism, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

So what what what did what did your uh so you told me that your daughter at the age of seven, her friend lost uh brother? He was a soldier, is what you told me?

SPEAKER_03 10:24

No, no, he was he was in high school and infiltrators came into his high school and excuse me, I'm sorry. That happened three weeks earlier. He hid in a closet and was okay. Three weeks later he was um at a bus stop in uh uh French Hill in Jerusalem and a suicide bomber blew himself up and murdered half a dozen people. And her uh her friend's brother was one of them. And for my uh my third child, uh uh one of those who grew up with uh was also murdered.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

So Okay, so like how like how do they deal with it? How do you deal with it? Like how do you help children get through this crazy thing?

SPEAKER_03 11:16

Um, you let them talk about it a lot. That that's you know, talk about it a lot, listen, let them go to all the all the meetings with the psychologists and the rabbis and the social workers, and let them talk and listen. Uh if they'll talk, I mean, you know, not all of them talk. Not all of them talk, imagine that's gonna be a problem.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

I mean, seven is really little. Was she petrified that it was gonna happen to her? Like was she scared to go to a bus stop? Was she scared to go to Ushalayam?

A Theology Of Faith After Near-Drowning

SPEAKER_03 11:49

Ma mm the seven-year-old? Yeah. I don't remember that. I do remember that she said once that whenever you leave the house, you should tell your family that you love them because you don't know if you're coming back. Yeah. Oh my goodness. And how did he respond to that? Um, I think I gave her a hug and I kiss. And I said, You're right. And we, you know, we have to take care of our relationships that we have. We have to be thankful for every day we have. Wow. Oh my goodness. That is too now. So yeah, that was a long time ago, wasn't it? Wow. Right. That is a long time ago. One of my sons got on again, he was a little boy then, eight, nine years old. We got on a bus and he was joining me and said, Well, I hope this bus doesn't blow up in a very loud, childlike voice.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

But it's so real. I mean, really, probably that's he just echoed what everyone was thinking.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Children children fools to say the truth. So he was saying the truth.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Yeah. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. And then your 13-year-old son lost to Madrisum a few weeks apart due to terrorism, right?

SPEAKER_03 13:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Oh, that was uh that was uh my daughter's friend.

SPEAKER_03 13:16

That's what the three weeks ago.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Oh, one of them was the friend's brother.

SPEAKER_03 13:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

So how did the other one die? What was that other terrorist attack? Oh, the one was at the high school, it was at uh blowing up uh at Oh my goodness. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

They were good friends. And uh the one who died three weeks later, you know, had to guilt survivor's guilt, whatever, he you know had a hard time. He had a hard time. And then he was cut. Right. Uh, you know, I said it was it was not didn't he? But I have to say because the I think I said to you, you know, their studies were like on the top five of the happiest countries in the world. So how that works out, I can't explain it. Oh, I I that's not true. I think I can explain. I s because I I I said I wrote this in an article once. Uh that was an A back in two thousand, I believe, two thousand and one. I was writing about at the beginning of the second and I wrote about what was going on and then I said that um I can turn to my husband and say I'm happy and he agrees with me, and so do my friends. And the happiness comes from the fact that we know that we're doing what what Hashem wants us to do where he wants us to do it. And um there's a certain kind of peace based on that.

Helping Children Name Fear And Loss

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Peacefulness, no are there um are there like Arab workers and stuff that work in Shiloh? Not since October 7th.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Shiloh got rid of all of them.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

There's some deliver some like I think the trash cut comes in town has some colours.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

That's it. And since October 7th they they they got tighter security also, or oh yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

So what happens when you see an Arab? Do you panic? No, no, okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

You go to Jerusalem, you shall line, and you know, there's Arabs all over the place. There's Arab bus drivers.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

Um Wow.

SPEAKER_03 15:51

It's and so and excuse me, you know, it's also there you go to the hospital, you go to the clinics, there's Arab doctors, Arab nurses, there's Arab anesthesiologists, there's Arab you know, there's if you're gonna panic when you see an Arab, you're in the wrong place.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

So how do you know that they're not terrorists, that they're not terrorists?

Holding Complexity: Coexistence And Caution

SPEAKER_03 16:19

Well, they don't come with uh labels on their forehead. They don't? And uh you you have to hope for the best. I my father uh left Germany in 37. And he raised me to believe that not every German was enough. And but he was able to do that in America in the 50s, that's when you've had time to get over when it happened. Right. I'll try to raise my children, but not air all every Arab is a terrorist. But you have to be careful because you don't know because they don't have the labels on the foreheads. Right, right. So um um, since we're in the midst of it, I'm not so successful. But uh my daughter is a nursing student and she works with Arab doctors and Arab nurses. And you know, she's you know they're people, they're all people.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Wow. I mean, I'm sure that a lot of them don't approve of what the terrorists are doing. They're not I mean, they're not terrorists, they don't think that it's the right thing to do. But you just never really know. You know, no. So that's that's what I said.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

You since you don't know, don't get on the wire don't get in a car with an arrow.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Wow. So what do you when when you see the resources that are available today compared to what you have, which was nothing, I guess like how does what's my question? Like you must really appreciate that the resources are out there.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

And you know, there's just so many things that weren't spoken about you know, sixty, seventy years ago.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

And now people speak about So what did the yeshiva do where your son was learning with uh with the two madrichim that were killed? Like how did they like they must oh again? The yeshiva that your son was in when the two Madrichim were killed.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

How he w he he w he was in uh grammar school then.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

He was in what school? He was in grammar school.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

I thought he was like thirteen, no?

SPEAKER_03 18:45

No, he was like thirteen. He was thirteen. Thirteen. Thirteen. Thirteen.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Right. Okay. So I'm saying, so how did the how did the staff at the school like what do they do with the what do they do with the students? How did they what kind of help did they bring in? What like did they do anything for the boys?

Community Response And Youth Support

SPEAKER_03 19:05

So that was not he was not at the school where the boys were killed. He was he was in the grammar school. They were in high school. Oh. So it was here with the youth group that he got the helping.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

I see. Okay. So what so okay, but you but you did you do have children that were teenagers when they lost friends to terrorism, right? Right. Uh but they were there was not school related, it was sh it was the Shiloh related.

SPEAKER_03 19:44

So it was with the youth groups and them meetings here.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

It was not really through the school. So what does that mean? If you say Shilo related, does that mean that um Shilo itself has like a terrorism group of therapists or

SPEAKER_03 20:01

Well you have the you have the social workers and the and the school psychologists and and and they come in and they you know they're on call for things like this. Mm-hmm. The social workers. Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

So what do they do?

Letting Kids Lead The Conversation

SPEAKER_03 20:17

Uh the first terror attack was uh when my oldest was in high school, first year high school, and my next one was in um um um seventh grade. And um Sheila bus was shot up and uh Rachel Ladruk was murdered. And um my daughter was on the bu they were they were on their way to a demonstration in Tel Aviv, and my daughter was on the second bus. And it was decided the bus would go on because she they didn't know that she'd been murdered. Anyway, by the time the bus by the time they got there they knew it was was a very, very emotional scene for all the kids. And uh I I still think about it as they start crying. Uh strangers were coming up to them and g hugging them and they got back on the bus to come home. And they didn't come home right away because they took them to the school to meet with everybody to uh uh decompress, I guess you could say. And then uh it was a while before they got home. And uh I remember, yeah, just hugging and climbing with her.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Wow, wow Are there families in Cheeto that lost more than one child to terrorism?

SPEAKER_02 21:49

No. Oh yeah, no, I don't know. Wow. Wow, for that.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

So I guess my question is like this. Um like the the reason that I really wanted, you know, one of the reasons that I really wanted you to come on was because I think today, even though there are so much more resources and things are spoken about a lot, I think sometimes, you know, um adults, maybe even like parents with their younger children will be like, yeah, she's fine, she's going to school, she's acting normal, she's good, she's not so affected by the loss. So I guess my question is like like what can we say to those parents? Like, like we want them to know that it's I mean, it's possible that their child really is doing fine, but I guess to bring an awareness that a young child, like it it just because they seem fine, like they might not be, and they really might need the processing and the talking to and like the help. So I guess from your experience, I I being that you were so young and you went through your first loss and there was no you know talking in those days, um, what's my question? Like, I guess what would you say to those parents? Like, how would you describe what it was like for you and like what could they, you know, maybe give their children?

Proportion, Honesty, And Real Strength

SPEAKER_03 23:02

I I think the main thing they have to give their children is a chance to talk about it. And to follow their leave, there was um uh a month or two ago, there was a little girl in um the nearby village who was killed in a car accident hit by a car and died. And she was, I believe, in first grade or third grade, and my granddaughter is in second grade. And um like my my son and daughter went away for Shabbat and my granddaughter was staying with us. And you know, we you know, we'll let if she talks about it, she talks about it, if she doesn't, she doesn't. She they've had they've had a whole big session at school about the whole thing. And um so at lunch, the little girl's name was Aviv Spring. And I was standing at the table, we were talking about something about the V Aviv, the season, not the little girl, and she got uh she's on started talking about her friends. Uh her this little girl. And then I guess I asked, What did she look like? And so she jumps up, leaves the table, and oh my gosh, what's she doing? And then she bought her backpack and she pulled out a picture of the little girl. And so I think that's the best thing to do is to just let them take the lead, make sure that they they know they can talk about it, and listen.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

And also the fact that you asked a question that wasn't like a yes or a no, but it gave her room to really talk about it. Like she went and got the picture and showed you, and like you could talk about what she really looked like.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

Yeah, and and as much as sometimes you want to cry, and sometimes it's okay to cry with the child. I know this hurts you and it hurts me too, or it hurts me that you're hurt, but to try to be the strong one.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

So you're saying to try to be the strong one, but strong doesn't mean never crying. You could show your child that you have emotions about it and that it's something that you know that's painful. Right, right. And they can understand that it's painful for you too. I guess that really circles back to what you said at the beginning with uh mother, you know, the the little the boy that was your age that was killed and yet, you know, the only child, but you saw the mother and you know how she holds holding the pain, but she's moving on. She's d well, not moving on, but she's, you know, continuing with her life and she's um you know, she's living it even with the pain in her heart.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

Yeah, yeah. That was really, really, you know, that's another thing I remember to this day, that conversation I had with her. And I'm like, How are you how are you having a normal life? And I learned what you do.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

I I can't even imagine, especially with an only child. Like I I just it's like I can't even wow. Wow. Do you ever think about him and where he would be today? Like what kind of life he'd be living if he would be married?

SPEAKER_03 26:15

That's that's funny. No. The truth is I've lost track I've lost track of most of the kids I grew up with. Not all but most.

unknown 26:23

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:23

I mean those are all there somewhere in America and Right, right, right, right. Not though I can one time I was visiting my parents and I uh was in the um the grocery store or Target standing online with my friend and she said, What does your money what does your Israeli money look like? And I showed her and the uh young man standing behind me said, said, What's your m what what's your money? Where's your money from? And I said, he said to me, Are you Esther? I said, Yeah, it's a small town. And so he told me who who he was. He was the same age as this the the one who was killed. And I was like, I didn't recognize it, but it was pretty funny. Yeah, that's so much fun when that happens.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Wow. Okay, so I guess before we end, anything important that we didn't discuss?

SPEAKER_03 27:19

Um, I just think it's important that kids know that life goes on and it hurts, and it's okay that it hurts, and it's okay to talk about it and to cry about it, but not to blow it out of proportion either. What does that mean? How do they know if they're blowing it out of proportion? Well, they uh for example with with uh with my who was killed when I you know, um I couldn't made it like, oh, but we were such good friends and we were, you know, now my life will never be the same and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But that wasn't the truth. The truth was he was someone in my life that I liked, but um he wasn't a big part of my life. And and not to be a drama queen over things like that. Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Right. Like not not to exaggerate the facts, like stick to the facts and stick to the pain, but don't exaggerate the facts to increase the pain or to get more sympathy or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 28:18

Yeah, yeah. And you know, it's still, you know, yeah, I know that you feel very bad about this, you know, but you know, you're not, you know. I know you feel very bad about this, but let's keep this in proportion. Well. Okay. Well But don't deny the pain either.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Don't deny the pain, right? Right. Not the the child and the parent. Right. You know what? It's it's like walking a tightrope, and if it happens, you know, more than one time and more than one child, the tightrope won't be the same walk either. Like every child is different. Not at all.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

Not at all.

unknown 28:57

Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

But it never ends. As a parent, you know, it never ends. Right. Because you know, w whatever pain your child goes through at whatever age, it's painful for a parent.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Okay. Well, thank you so much. We love and yeah, thank you so so much for coming in.

SPEAKER_03 29:22

You're welcome. And as to you, may you continue to help people. Amen. I'm mean. Thank you. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

You've just listened to an episode of the Grief Journey Podcast with Miriam Ribbiat, brought to you by Mayrim. For more episodes, please visit the Mayrim website at www.mahrim.org. Help us reach others who may benefit from this podcast. If you know someone who might find it meaningful, please consider sharing it with them. If you have questions or comments for the speaker, or if you would like to suggest a guest for a future episode, we would love to hear from you. Email us at podcastmayrim.org. We look forward to having you join us for the next episode.