Mrs. Leah Paley: The Chapter That Lives On

When the doctor said, “Your son Yossi failed remission,” his loving mother gently answered, “No, he didn’t fail remission. The chemotherapy failed to achieve remission.”

But in a life guided by emunah, did the wording really matter, when they believed the outcome was always in Hashem’s hands?

Still, Mrs. Leah Paley and her husband did everything they possibly could to help their son recover from leukemia.

As Yossi lay in the hospital, his mother played a recording of the parshah he hoped to lain for his upcoming bar mitzvah, only a few weeks away. But six weeks before that long-awaited day, Yossi returned his holy neshamah to Hashem.

The pain was immense. The loneliness was crushing. Back then, there was far less support for bereaved parents. Well-meaning friends cared deeply, but often did not know how to truly help.

But Leah worked on herself. She worked deeply on her relationship with Hashem.

One major turning point came through a remarkable experience involving a Sefer Torah dedicated l’ilui nishmas her son.

Today, the Paleys live in Israel, where Leah found connection with other bereaved mothers. Those relationships became an important source of comfort and understanding in her grief journey. She is also a devoted volunteer for Mayrim, helping support other bereaved mothers.

Yossi Paley will never be forgotten. He remains a beloved chapter in the Paley family story. The page may have turned, and life continued forward, but Yossi’s chapter is still deeply loved, remembered, and very much alive in the hearts of his family.

YouTube: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsK24OSmIYG_XWzeplhfmb8LJcWKphITh&si=untn3fmHLLaEEFNm

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/relief-from-grief-by-mayrim/id1788349916

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3AvWNp0DrHqE5AVYJHooiK?si=ufpIObuGRumS5uFXmvrpgA 

Questions or feedback? Email me at: podcast@mayrim.org

Transcript

Mayrim Mission And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Grief Journey Podcast, hosted by Mrs. Miriam Ribiat and brought to you by Mayrim. Mayrim is an organization dedicated to supporting families who have experienced the loss of a child. It was founded with Eloy Nishmas, Nachamaliba, and Miriam Holman. Despite her illness, Miriam devoted herself to addressing the needs of parents and siblings navigating the profound pain of child loss. This mission was deeply personal to her, as she had experienced such loss firsthand when her older sister Maliba passed away. Mayrim continues to honor and expand upon the work Miriam began, with her parents carrying this mission forward with unwavering dedication. If you have any questions or comments for the speaker, or if you would like to suggest a guest for the podcast, please email us at podcast at mayrim.org.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Hi everybody. Thank you so much for joining me here tonight on the Grief Journey Podcast by Mayrim. So today we have Mrs. Leia Paley, who is a bereaved mother. So thank you so so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Why don't we start off a little bit with your story about your son? I don't even know your son's name. What was his name?

SPEAKER_03 1:19

Um we added a name, it was Yassi, and we added Chaim. And the truth is that when we were told to add it, we didn't have any real guidance. And I wanted to keep Yassi, so I made it Yosef Chaim. And I found out afterwards that um Yosef means to add. So it was like a perfect way to do it, Yosef Chaim, to add life.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Well, and how much longer did he live after you added the name? Um he was I guess two and a half years, three years. It was um from when he got sick to when he passed away, was very, I guess, not instant, but it was seem well, it was quick. It was, you know, he was he was nine when

From Symptoms To Leukemia Diagnosis

SPEAKER_03 2:05

he um was diagnosed. He I should start with the story, shouldn't I? So okay, so this is like so long ago, it was 1997. Um, he was nine years old. We lived in Richmond, Virginia, and um he was diagnosed with leukemia. It was Hy El, which um actually my husband said at the time he because he was diagnosed on Shabbos, and um I was always upset. Why why did I have to take him to the doctor on Shabbos? And um so um he said, Oh, it's Hy El. Shem's telling us hi life, he's gonna live. And afterwards he was like, Okay, that was like not such a great, you know. But um, like I said, he took him to the doctor and he they sent me down to MCV like right away.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

They they did blood work and he sent the doctor because you had like an emergency with him.

SPEAKER_03 3:06

Um he he told us at night that he wasn't feeling well. He he said he had no, like he had no strength. And um, he was walking to shoal with my husband in the morning, and he got a block and a half away, and my husband came home and he said he can't make it to shoal. He he and it was like, okay, that's not normal, like something's seriously wrong. And I felt like he needed to go to the doctor. And when I took him to the doctor, and I said, you know, he has bruises up and down his arms and on his legs, and he had them, you know, normally you get bruised in the front, you bump into something, he had bruises on the front and the back of his legs, and um doctor didn't even let me finish talking when he took blood and he he told the um the nurse, he said he kept coming and checking it. And I was like, okay, this is not good. And then when um he he came out to talk to us, he said, son, you stay here. I'm gonna talk to your mother alone. And I was like, okay, that's really not good. And he starts off with, you have one very sick little boy. And he was like, You have to take him down to MCV, which is Medical College of Virginia. And um, you know, we we took him down there and they they were like waiting for us. They were like, What took you so long? They they literally were waiting, but we had to make we had other kids, we had to make arrangements for our kids, and you know, and and I didn't know anything about leukemia, you know, like nobody gets leukemia. I never I was like, and um, you know, again, this was 1997. This was the internet was very, very new. Um, I did, um, I don't even think there was Google then. I don't even know how I did a search, but I I did do searches and I did speak to other doctors, and my medical team there was very against this. They were very, you know, like, we're the doctor, you know, we tell you what to do, and you do it, and you listen, and and you thank us, and you be eternally grateful. And yeah, so they didn't like working with me. Um, but he, I guess he's a lot like me. He didn't follow the protocol, and you know, he after 28 days, he was supposed to be in remission, and they came to me and they said, Yes, he failed remission. And I'm like, Yes, he didn't fail remission. Your chemo failed to achieve remission. Um, yeah, so they didn't know what to do. They never had a kid who didn't go into remission, so we were in uncharted territory.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Everyone they treated went into remission.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

The every kid they treated went into remission, but I will tell you the the doctor that puffed himself up and he was like, you know, his daughter actually got leukemia many years later, and she was the second patient not to go into remission. Um, yeah. But so, anyways, we went straight to transplant, and I really, really liked the transplant doctor. I actually taught his daughter when she was in third grade, and he treated my son like his own son, and he would tell us, he would say, if it was my son, this is what I would do. But this is what I tell all the other patients to do. And he really, really, really loved my son. And um he the transplant went really, really well, and at two years post-transplant, he was cured, and we were told he's cured. You can use the cured word, so that's what we, you know, he was cured. And um, and then two years, nine months post-transplant, he had a relapse, and that put us almost exactly three years to the day of diagnosis, and um, we were working with um St. Jude's, and they were doing blood tests that were on a much higher level than regular um tests, and they were saying the chemo's not working, so we right away went to a second transplant. It was almost three years to the day, and he didn't survive the transplant. He he died cancer-free, but he didn't survive the transplant.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

You mean from all the other diseases or whatever, because of his low immune system?

SPEAKER_03 7:36

Um, I think it was his body, it was too hard. Um, you know, he he had graph versus host, and he had an aspergillus infection, and um it was just too much.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

So how old was he at this point?

SPEAKER_03 7:52

He was he was six weeks, he was six weeks shy of his bar mitzvah.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

He was almost bemitzvah, wow.

SPEAKER_03 7:59

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we didn't plan for it because I mean I did buy a Shatel, and but you know, and he actually he started learning um the trup for his bromitzvah, but that's about as far as we got. I in the hospital I used to play the truck over and over and over again, and um he was in a medically induced coma for the last month of his life, and I would tell people you can't talk bad stuff around him. Like the doctors, I made them go out of the room to talk to us. And um our rabbi was Rabbi Kranz, Yassel Kranz, who's a nephew of Avram Freed. And every time he'd call me, he'd say, Oh, I hear my uncle singing in the oh yeah, yeah, because I was I was always playing, I was playing, you know, music and and whatever, like anything that would was upbeat. And wow.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

So from the time he had his transplant until he was nephther, how long was that?

SPEAKER_03 8:59

It was um it was two months. The first month was like okay, but it just went really downhill. And oh, and I forgot to tell you, when the doctor came to tell us that he wasn't gonna make it, he walks into the room and he said, You have one very sick little boy. And I'm like, Oh my god, you cannot use those words. Like, you can't say that to me. And you know, I took him out of the room and I said to him, you know, I puffed myself up because I had all this betohin and amuna, you know, like you want to talk about trachgut fit sein gut, my son was gonna make it. And that I said it to him. I said, you know, we're Jews and we don't follow the laws of nature. And I said, My son is gonna live. And I said, 20 years from now, you will be talking about this unbelievable miracle that happened. So that didn't exactly get the miracle that I wanted, but wow, wow.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

My brother, he was in the act 14. He was diagnosed with leukemia right after his parents, and he also had a transplant. And the the the beginning of the bad was when they took some sort of blood test, I guess. I don't even know. Like, you know, I guess a few weeks after the checklist, and my sister was the donor, and they came back and said, We're a little concerned, it's not very concerned yet, but we're a little concerned because there's more female hormones or something than male hormones. That was just like the beginning of like the you know, the downhill. So and it was in '99. So I guess like the same time period, I guess. I guess the treatments were similar at that point. I so different now, I think. I think they treat it very differently.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

The leukemia or the transplant?

SPEAKER_01 10:46

I think both, no?

SPEAKER_03 10:49

I don't know. They told us that the drugs they were using, he had a reaction um the first time around, he had a reaction to one of his um chemo drugs, and it was actually one of the newer ones. They they told me that all the drugs they were using, the whole protocol was the same drugs as from like the 50s and the 60s. She said nothing has changed. Yeah. She said the only thing was that they tweaked the amount of drugs like the the cocktails. And um, the one drug that they added in maybe it was in the 80s. It was like one of the newer drugs. It gave him um um oh, I forgot what it's called. It was it's it's a very pancreatitis. He got pancreatitis from it, so he had they had to stop it.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Wow. Wow. Wow. So let's talk about that. Um you mentioned the how hard it was because I don't know how many other children you had at home, also, but like you were in a not a large firm community, you were in a smaller community, plus you were one of the firmest people there, and you didn't really have like so much support. You were doing this very much on your own.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

Right. Well, I had I had support in the terms of like people bring meals and and people help me with my kids, and you know, that kind of support, but there was no one really to turn to for grief support. Um, I tried going to, let's see, I went to three different therapists, which I hugely apologize to any therapist out there, but I really got turned

Transplants To Relapse And Final Days

SPEAKER_03 12:30

off from therapy because the first therapist told me, uh, they told me and my husband, they said, you have to get used to the fact that you are not gonna have any more kids. And um, she gave me a book on empty nest syndrome, and I was 35 years old. I later had two more kids. And why would you say that? I'm telling you, that's what the first one told me is that I'm upset about you know, whatever. Like I need to get used to the fact that I'm gonna have an empty nest. And I still had little kids. I I I think my little one at the time was um he was three years old. Okay, and you're telling me I have empty nest syndrome. Like, okay, so the second therapist I went to was through um comp like a compassionate friends type thing. Uh um it was called Noah's Children, which was through hospice. That's what it was. It was through hospice. She wasn't Jewish. Um, again, we're in a very small, small, small community. She wasn't Jewish. And um, they ended up cutting her funding. So um I couldn't go to her anymore. She was actually the one therapist that I like, and I'm eternally grateful to her because okay, everyone's gonna think I'm crazy for saying this, but she said to me, she said, How's your relationship with God? And I was like, Oh, we're Jewish. We don't have relationships with God, you know, it's like that's so guyish. And it started me thinking, like, do Jews have relationships with God? So I started exploring this whole concept, and it blew my mind that, oh my gosh, they took it from us. Like, yes, you know, Tata and Himmel, you know, they say, Oh, our Father in Heaven. It's like it came from us, and she really set me down the path to having a stronger relationship with God. And, you know, and I liked her. And after I lost her, I went to a third therapist who um she herself was a bereaved mother, which is why I picked her. And she told me, um, after talking to me, you know, doing the intake, she said, You have to, you're addicted to the internet, you have to go cold turkey off the internet. And I said, Oh, but you don't understand. I don't know anyone who's lost a child. And the only people I know are on this support group that I found online. And she said, nope, you have to go cold turkey for three months. And I was like, Okay, yeah, I'm not losing my only connection to um other bereaved parents. And it was through a Yahoo Listserve that I was talking to these other parents, so I left her and I found out this was after one visit, I found out she specializes in um addictions. So I'm like, oh, she had she had to find an addiction. Oh, I did go to one more therapist years later who did EMDR, and I asked her, Can you do EMDR on me? And she said to me, You want me to stop, you you want me to help you stop feeling sad over losing your son? And I said, Yeah. She said, I'm not gonna do that. So I was like, Okay, bye. I mean, I was looking for help. I I I had nobody to help me.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

I had no one to understand that not feeling sad doesn't mean not forgetting.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

Correct. Correct. Uh yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

So she was, oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

Okay, yeah. I did try to start my own support groups. Um, we did have, we were on this group called Day by Day, and it was for bereaved parents, and there were a couple of Jewish, you know, mothers on there, and one of the moms had an incident where one of the other non-Jewish parents said to her, You know, your child is rotting in hell because they didn't believe in Yashka. Oh my goodness. And she was so hurt. She was like, Oh my gosh. And I was like, okay, we need a Jewish support group. So I started a little support group. We had 15 people in the, you know, in the in the heyday of my group. Um I don't remember everyone, but I know Sherry Mandel was in my group because her son Kobe passed away a few months after Yassi.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

And um yeah, he was in '97 also.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

No, Yassi died in 2001. And um Oh, he got sick.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Oh wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

Yeah. So yeah, and I I asked High Lifeline, you know, could you could you, you know, do a support group for us? And they didn't have the ability at that time. Um, it was all still there they were new to grief. I mean, they came down to Richmond. It was really, really, really new. You know, they now it's like very polished, and they, you know, when some trauma happens, they're they're there right away. Right. And you know, back then they just started doing the bereavement retreats. And um, you know, and I asked them, can't you do something for us? And they were like, no, we don't have the manpower to to do

Searching For Support And Better Help

SPEAKER_03 18:00

it.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

And and what about your like friends in the community? Did they know how to relate to you? Were they hurtful? Did they not become your friend anymore?

SPEAKER_03 18:09

No, I was really, really, really lucky. Um, all my friends gave me space, which on one hand, I don't know, like uh it might be good. Um years later, a couple of years ago, I actually re-evaluated my whole journey. And one of my friends said to me, you know, like when I sit there, you guys all enabled me to wallow in grief. And she said, This friend said to me, She was in New York, um, she said to me, You would have cut us off if we would have tried to tell you to snap out of it. And I'm like, oh man, yeah, you're right. I would have.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

See, that's the problem that so many bereaved and others have, though. A supportive friend doesn't have to give you, doesn't shouldn't tell you to snap out of it, but they also obviously were giving you too much space. Like you you needed more from them. I mean, you the dynamics are probably that they didn't realize you didn't realize I'm not blaming. I'm just I I know someone reached out to me recently. She's like, could you please put a book out with like what the things that family and friends should say and do and not say and not do because there's so many hurt feelings from Bereaved Mothers that get such like inappropriate remarks and they're all well-intentioned. Um, I don't know if we're gonna end up doing it or not, but um, but I feel like this is the perfect example.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

Like, right. No, I mean, the truth is after all these years looking back, it is my journey, and I do own I I do own it. Like I traveled it my way, and there really was there was nobody showing me and telling me this is a healthy way to mourn, and this is already crossing into not so healthy and not so good.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

You know, so um I wanted to ask you if you're comfortable asking and I want to put you on the spot, if you could share how you became like how your eyes were open to like one second, we are connected, Tasha and we are supposed to have a relationship, Tasha and how you like worked on that relationship.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

Um I did a lot of thinking about it, like you know what, I asked questions. I I did a lot, a lot, a lot of okay, the truth is, and I I I don't like saying this, um, I do see good that has come out of my whole situation. Like people say, you know, like um, you know, like it sounds weird to say it. Like, if you were if you were to ask me, would you go through this again to gain what you gained, it's like no way. There's no way, but there's no way I would want to give up what I gained because I really did gain a relationship with Hashem. And the way I first started picturing it was when I had really hard nights, you know, nights are always the hardest because it's dark out and it's it's it's lonely, and there's you know, it's just it's so hard. I remember one time calling one of the non-Jewish women that I knew. I called her, it was three o'clock in the morning in Virginia, it was midnight in Utah, and I called her crying. I said, I thought I was gonna implode, you know, the pain was so overwhelming, and I could feel it in my chest, and I'm like, I'm literally, I'm gonna implode. That was the only word I could use. So I started picturing, you know, that book, Ellie and the Little White Lie?

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

So I pictured Hashem is right here, he's on my shoulder, he's sitting here with me. I'm sad, I'm crying, he's crying with me, he's right here with me. And I kept picturing like in bed when I was crying. He's he's wrapping his arms around me, he's here with me, and I started talking to him. know like I remember one time I I was reaching into the washer and my baby sock you know I pull out and you know how washers eat socks right so I I'm missing a sock and I start crying and I'm like Hashem this is too much I I I can't I can't please please please I I this is too much and it started that became my mantra when when things became too heavy and too hard I would just unload on Hashem and say I can't take it anymore I I it's too much and ironically I'm gonna tell you that second therapist that I went to she gave me an analogy because when I I actually asked her I said to her how come things push me over the edge it's the little little things that are really pushing me over the edge and they're upsetting me and they're really and she said to me if you take a cup and you fill it with water you could fill it all the way up to the tippy top but it won't overflow she said if you add one more drop of water to it the whole thing's gonna overflow like you're gonna and I'm sitting here thinking oh Dallah like you're not Jewish you don't know it but it's like that's how and I actually use that analogy um with other mothers I'll say you know it's the little things that push you over the edge but it's because of the fact that your cup is already full so wow yeah I'm sure people find that very helpful I hope so so let's talk about the fact that it was right before his bar mitzvah I don't know why I always like have this thing that it's like so like extra sad when it's right before right after a bar mitzvah but I don't really know if that's true because any age is really painful and sad. I I think I think that whatever age you lost your child at that's where that's what's painful for you because I know I have one friend here who won't go to weddings because her daughter never got married and on one of the high lifeline bereavement retreats one of the mothers she took her pain and she used it what she would do is she would go and dress Kalas and she said yeah she said my daughter didn't get married give me the slus of dressing you you know illness lost my daughter oh my goodness so I think people it really depends for me bar mitzvahs were painful um you know because my son was 12 and that was the bar mitzvah year I didn't go to most of the bar mitzvahs because we're a small community he he had one close friend who the two boys were a day apart so his bar mitzame as Yassi's bar mitzvah we left town we were like we went to a small little hotel in Charlottesville North Carolina and we spent Shabbos in this hotel because we could not be in Richmond for that Shabbos and that August which was like I don't know four or five months after we lost him um one of his other close friends had his bar mitzvah and I remember sitting there in shul crying and crying during the laning and I'm happy for my friend I'm happy he had a bar mitzvah I'm so sad for me and I made that decision I'm like that's it I'm not going to bar mitzvah anymore like it's not my thing and when my two other boys were bar mitzvah it was torture really and yeah it was very hard wow it was very very very hard I felt gypped you know it's like I know it's not the right feeling but I really felt gypped that I was due a bar mitzvah and I I didn't get it. Wow yeah and what about weddings do you feel the same way with weddings no because my son was only you know 12 right right yeah I did get over the whole bar mitzvah thing because um one of my I have a lot of really close friends but one of them when her special needs son had a bar mitzvah I did go to it because it's not exactly the same situation. And it was really a very big simcha and it was like I don't know maybe it washed away the pain and I I have gone to bar mitzvah since then so how many years after yasi was that I don't know a lot of years. No not not a lot a lot but not a little wow so what made you move to ArtisRail um everything fell into place no it was like everything fell into place it was um we had actually opened a file um twice before and this third time um I you know I asked my husband in August of 2020 I said could we could I open up the file again and he was like yeah you can and he was like he didn't seem real positive about it and I started getting the documents and by November he said to me I'm gonna lose my job and that was what was holding him back and in January he was let go and then that was it we just you know like they they let they they let go a whole his whole section like the whole his whole team everyone in this in sales he was um product development he worked for the fourth largest company in Virginia that he worked for Genworth um well it wasn't genworth it changed names a couple of times but it was um you know but they let the whole team go so they they kept offering him do you need help with um finding a new job we can retrain you we can and he's like no no no it's fine and because of covet it was like everything fell into place like literally and he he put our house on the market in half an hour he got an he he got an offer and we yeah wow yeah we did it pending you know like whatever and literally everything fell into place it was just like it was meant to be it was a lot I didn't realize it was like 20 years later yeah yeah yeah yeah it was it was after my safe for Torah it was like I I guess I felt like at that point I could leave because there were various times my husband actually wanted to leave Richmond and I always felt like I can't because yes he's here you know it was like he was born in New York but we moved to Virginia when he was a year old so it was like everywhere you go yes he's here like you you drive down the street and that's a 7-Eleven that I went to go get a Slurpee after he had a procedure or you drive over this bridge and it's like oh his class planted trees down there and it everywhere I drove he was there and it was like my husband asked me one point can we move to he wanted to move to St. Louis he wanted to move to there's a few places he could have moved and I always said no no no so what changed in that department um I think after my like I saw in my journey that I had different um I had different um I guess gates opening like at five years I said I'm so tired of being sad all the time I can't I can't be sad all the time at 10 years I had another milestone that's the word I was looking for I had different milestones 15 years I had another one and it was like I just felt like I was getting stronger emotionally but after my retira it was like okay I I'm gonna I've told this story before I don't think I told this to you but when Yassi died in March in July I was in New York for a month and I met up with Caya Teldon okay and you you had her on recently okay so Chaya's sitting with me at the oil and she's explaining to me she said your life is a book okay she's she said um you have all these chapters right and she said you've had all these chapters with Yassi and she said now the part of the story about Yassi is over and now you've got to turn the page and you got to continue the rest of the book. You don't forget the previous chapters but all the you know you've got to continue the book it was three months I sat there sobbing and I said I'm never turning the page I'm never forgetting him I'm never moving on I I'm not you know I I was sobbing hysterically and I'm like I'm not I'm not I'm not for the 10th yard site I invited Chaya to come down to Richmond she came for that Shabbos and we I had I had a speech I made a speech and I said to her okay Chaya I'm it took me 10 years but I'm ready to turn the page and I think once I did my say for Torah I was like it really completed the chapters of this and she's right you don't forget the previous part of your story you carry it with you it develops you it it it it brings you through it it makes you who you are you don't forget it it's still part of the story.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

So now you could go back to that third therapist or first therapist or whatever number therapist it was and tell her okay I'm not sad.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

I'm not sad anymore

Turning Points Faith Torah Scroll And Move

SPEAKER_03 32:10

but I'm still holding on tight like I'm not forgetting anything like maybe I'm gonna talk about the um the the must say for Torah I guess if you could share that uh story with us okay so it it really really started when my son kept asking me I I have a library in in Richmond and I raised a lot of money for that and it it's Lily Nishmas and they also the the um the base medrish they they named after him and I put a lot of money into this and my son said to me stop buying books and get a safe at Torah and I'm like I told him I said you're crazy I said it's $25,000 that's what I thought it cost like it's it's too much money I don't have that kind of money there's no way I could raise it I struggled to raise you know the this little piddly amount that I'm raising it's so hard for me and and like no I I can't do it I can't do it I can't do it I had another friend not bereaved who kept telling me just do it she said if you commit to doing it Hashem will give you the money and I'm like I I can't do this I I'm like I can't sign my name on a contract for $25,000 there's no way my daughter-in-law's brother was having a bar mitzvah and yes I went to New York for the bar mitzvah and he was standing on the Bhima and he was hugging that sefer Torah and I'm sitting there and I'm looking at him hug that sefer Torah and on the R Tapestry group there was a whole discussion about Havnasa Sefer Torahs and the women were talking about how they brought their child to Chuppa and the you know like and I'm sitting there and all this stuff is running through my head and I left up our mitzvah and said I need a safer Torah I have to have a safer Torah and I came back to Richmond and I made a little committee of his three best friends yes he's best friends and we had the first meeting and at the meeting one of the boys said to me if you raise the money and I said no no no not if when and I said if you say if you can't be on the committee how it was like the boys at this point were were they married already? This was like 20 this was 2016. So this was already you know 15 years 16 years so they were like in the 20s or whatever yeah yeah yeah yeah I I think they were all married at this point and and and I reached out to um one of Yassi's friends Adam who lives here in in Harnof and um I said to him how much does a safe total cost? And he said $50,000 and I was like okay all right what do I care? Like I don't care attach him's bill like he'll give me $25,000 he'll give me $500 doesn't make a difference so we started we started this campaign and um within three months I had all my pledges I had money and I had pledges and my friends in Virginia told me they said you don't understand Richmond is not a rich community afterwards after the whole thing after the whole weekend they said it was really beautiful because I brought the whole community together we we did the um my son passed away right after Purim okay it's the day after Shushanpuram that year his yord site fell on Shabiz. So Shushanpuram was on Friday and Purim was on Thursday. We started the seif the Khanaz Sefatar in Shul and we walked a mile down to the yeshiva and we had the whole you know party there and then we had the whole Shabiz but the first time everyone kept saying to me do it on Sunday do it on Sunday and I was like no no no no no if I do it on Friday then the first time we lane from it it'll be on his yard site which is the 18th yord site and yeah and and Shoshana Rieber came down for it with her husband and Zisi Mueller came down with her husband and yeah they left their families on Purim it's like I have friends like no one's got like oh my goodness that's amazing yeah yeah wow wow that's incredible and then what did you tell me you you like really like gave it a huge hug and that was then you were good. I I asked Shila I said I wanted to dress it and I was told by my rov that as long as I don't do it in public it's okay so um we I went into the bride's room and um I got to dress it you know I put the gartel on I put the mantle on and I I gave it such a hug and people took pictures of it. I was that's the only time I cried the whole day I I I cried when I hugged it and then one of Yassi's namesakes the first one that was named after him Yoshi he put the kesser on it and like a grandchild no no no this is one of my friends was pregnant when Yassi passed away and at at the bris her husband turned to her and said um I know we picked a name but could we give Yassi's name for the middle name yeah wow yeah yeah oh wow that's beautiful yeah it is but after after that I think for me that was really a huge turning point because I really felt complete you know like I I finally found um I kept searching for the word like like am I at peace am I at am I comfortable like what's the word and then I realized I'm looking in the wrong language it's Minuchas and fish it's like my soul was finally peaceful because I felt like he has everything he needs I guess I I don't know I I just I I really and and that's why oh that's why I felt like I could leave because I left a seifarah behind and when we went back to visit my in-laws my husband I was like I don't even need to go to the cemetery because I'm going to yeshiva I'm gonna go visit the seifara really and that's for that was our first stop after stopping at my in-laws we we went to yeshiva to go wow visit the seifara wow that's amazing yeah and Shoshana Rebra stopped through Virginia and she sent me pictures you know like hey look here they're taking us your several out now that's so sweet yeah wow yeah so what so I didn't even know like I got your name really from Hanadvora which is our tapestry so I didn't even know that you were involved with Mayrim also.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

What what are you like how did you get involved with Mayrim?

SPEAKER_03 39:25

Um okay so it's actually kind of funny um I met Sagit at the bereavement retreat um at uh high lifeline did um they they limited it to I think three at that time and I know I went to one of them I remember it's so funny she doesn't remember this I was sitting out we were sitting outside and she was like can we move to the shade because it's gonna oxidize our shadows and I'm like what's that I didn't even know about oxidizing our shadows and it was like that's how I remembered her and um later on they started doing retreats but because I was in Virginia I couldn't really go but once I came here and I I heard about Mayreem I started going to it and um I don't know I I I I kind of help with Dina sometimes and I started organizing stuff here. Once I came to Earse I like really um volunteered a lot with between our tapestry and Mayreem um we've done two um we've done two mothers trips and um we're actually working on another little mini trip right now um we went once to the south and it's very healing you know like um we we did the first two activities and then we had a closing circle and at the end of the circle when um the Turgeide is also bereaved and um yeah it's like everyone involved was was a bereaved mom and at the closing circle she was like saying and when Mashiach comes we're all gonna dance together and I said why are we gonna wait for Mashiach to come let's dance right now and we started dancing and it was it was really nice and um we we did another trip in February up north and um it it it's really she's got a very special way about connecting the trip to our story like not our stories but our journeys you know like we went to Har Carmel and it's like this is where Eliana V was and she's talking about how oh you know Eliana V he didn't want to be a Navi like nobody said when they grow up I want to be a Navi you know like people say I want to be a fireman or I want to be you know but no one says I want to be a Navi because the Navi's are not liked and they and they some of them you know it was a really bad time and and and she's saying and that's just like us at Mayreem she said no little girl says oh when I grow up I want to join Mayreem and she's like we're all here not because we you know wanted to be here but because Hashem put us here and she was like really tying everything in and it was just so the only word I can use is amazing because it's like I don't know it's just it's amazing it it's it's an amazing land it's an amazing people it's just I think the connection also like everyone really gets it yeah yeah yeah you're a big different I don't know when you do your trips you do it with um people that are like recently bereaved and longer bereaved or you kind of divide it into groups I let anyone come anyone who wants to come um I do think it's good for the newly bereaved to see the longer bereaved because one of the things that I hear a lot is that you know I'm never gonna I'm never gonna laugh again. I'm never gonna smile I'm never gonna be happy. Right.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

And I you know I I have um I have a friend here who I call her my partner in crime and we we go to Shiva's and at one of the shiva okay it's not appropriate but I walked in and I met the mother and I smiled and she's like you're smiling like I I'm gonna smile again like and I I'm like I'm sorry for smiling but yeah you know that's one thing I tell the moms is that you will be happy again like it it's very hard to believe you know when you're so entrenched in pain and it's like yeah I know that we were we're coming to the end but we didn't talk about I just want I guess finish off with like how does a person know when they're going into unhealthy ways of mourning so I actually had um

Healthy Mourning Without Losing Your Life

SPEAKER_03 44:00

I had somebody ask me once, they said, I have a friend who's bereaved, and she lost her child four or five years ago. I don't remember how many it was, but she said, she posts on Facebook, it's been this number of days. Like she knows the exact number of days, and she like she's not getting over it. Like, and and I said, Does she do laundry? Does she take care of her kids? Does she make dinner? Does she go shopping? Is she functioning? And she said, Yeah. I said, So she misses her child. Like that's normal. Like, right, don't, don't, don't take that away from her. But someone who's not functioning, you know, if if you tell me they're laying in bed and and you know, they're not getting out of bed, or they're not, you know, the kids are having cereal and milk every single night, you know, like emphasis on the every, I noticed that.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

Not some nights, every night.

SPEAKER_03 44:56

Right, every night. No, every single night. Like you're not making dinner and there's no clean clothes. It's they're if they're not functioning. If it's not, you know, it's like if if you're really entrenched in grief, you know, it's it's and what about if a person is functioning, but they're always like like we talked about in the beginning, like you know, they're always overflowing.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Every little thing makes them scream and yell and go crazy.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

What should they do?

SPEAKER_01 45:26

Or is that considered functioning, just missing their child, or is that considered like this is not really okay grief because too many people are being affected in a negative way constantly?

SPEAKER_03 45:38

I think it's I I would think it's individual and that it's really like you have to know like I don't know, like um, because I have some moms who cry a lot, but they're still functioning. And it's like it's okay. It's like it's just I I like to say that grief is a mountain, okay. If you picture this big giant mountain, and there are some people who literally they run up the mountain and they get right up to the top and they quote unquote conquer grief, right? I circled around the bottom like this for five years, and I went a little bit up and I circled around the next level. And it's like some people climb slower and some people climb faster, and it's just you know, it's like I think don't get stuck. Like I think it's hard to know if you're stuck. I I I've known some people that are stuck, and it's like they can't get past it, and they they really it's very depressing, it's very negative, it's very, you know, and and it's a difference. I think it's okay to miss your child. It's okay to say, I feel sad, I wish they were here. Um I actually had a friend who gave me a quote. She's not grieved, but she said to me that suffering is the inability to accept reality. And it's like, whoa, that's really true, yeah. Wow. So I I think I think accepting the reality, like, I mean, I did play around and pretend like you know, he's not dead, he's just somewhere else, you know. And it's like I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 47:31

Right.

SPEAKER_03 47:33

Wow. Yeah, I I guess it's I like to be sarcastic about it. Oh my god No, like like one time I had a one time I had a flight attendant say to me, I was getting on a plane and it was the end of the day, and you know, and she said to me, Are all these kids yours? You know, like I had I had six kids with me, and I'm like, yeah, I said, but I left one back at in Richmond because he doesn't travel very well.

unknown 47:59

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 48:03

Oh that's so funny, you know.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

Right, right. Yeah, listen, there are those people that like you know really need that morbid dark humor to get through, and those that find it's so hurtful and harmful, and just they stay away from it. So I guess my last question, really, is there any like parting message that you would like to leave off with?

SPEAKER_03 48:29

Um I think the thing that's really important is to stay connected. Um, I think it's really, really good to connect to other people, you know, like um don't go through it alone. That that's like my really, really big thing because I felt so so so alone. And it's like I really really feel that it it makes it so much harder. And you know, reach out if you are feeling alone, reach out, especially. Um there's so much help and support and people out there, and and you don't have to go through it alone.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

Leah, thank you so so much for coming on. I really appreciate it, and I think that that parting message is such an important one, something that

Closing Resources And Staying Connected

SPEAKER_01 49:20

we can't hear enough of, and we should share only in some huzz.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

You've just listened to an episode of the Grief Journey Podcast with Miriam Ribiat, brought to you by Mayrim. For more episodes, please visit the Mayrim website at www.mayrim.org. Help us reach others who may benefit from this podcast. If you know someone who might find it meaningful, please consider sharing it with them. If you have questions or comments for the speaker, or if you would like to suggest a guest for a future episode, we would love to hear from you. Email us at podcast at mayrim.org. We look forward to having you join us for the next episode.