Inoa iʻa - Hawaiian sea life names

What’s in a fish name? In this episode, staff from the Division of Aquatic Resources Hawaiian culture team talk about the importance of using the proper Hawaiian names for fish and other marine life found in Hawaiʻi’s waters. They explore how these names reflect cultural knowledge, history, and relationships with the ocean and land. And why bringing them back into everyday use helps build pilina and keep ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi alive. How did the humuhumunukunukuapuaʻa get it's name? Download this episode to find out!

Transcript

[Music] 

Patti Jette: Aloha and welcome to Hawaiʻi Conservation Kuleana brought to you from Hawaiʻi's Department of Land and Natural Resources. I'm Patti Jette, and we're here to explore conservation issues from land to sea with expert insights and stories from the field.

[Music] 

Kealiʻi Sagum: Instead of looking at it as something as just a fish, using the Hawaiian name, you're one giving life to that fish, but you're also giving life to that moʻolelo, and you're making a pilina with that species. 

[Music]

Patti: It's Mahina ʻōlelo Hawaiʻi, Hawaiian language month. So we're taking a look at Hawaiian names in our natural world. Now I'm a self proclaimed fish nerd, so I am very excited to welcome guests today from our Division of Aquatic Resources to talk about inoa iʻa, fish names. Let's go around the table, introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about the work you do for the department.

Kealiʻi: Welina mai o Kealiʻi Sagum koʻi noa, no Kauai, maao, aka no ho’o ma Oʻahu i. Ke manawa, Hi my name is Kealiʻi Sagum. I'm originally from Kauaʻi, but I live on Oʻahu now. My position with the Division of Aquatic Resources is Policy Program Specialist. That's what it is on paper. My background is environmental science and Hawaiian studies, and I also have my law degree from William Richardson School of Law, with my certificates in environmental law and Native Hawaiian rights. I end up doing a lot of different things within the division, involving ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi, involving ʻike Hawaiian knowledge and traditional and customary practices, working with communities, all types of things that don't make it on paper, but are vital to the work that we do with the Division of Aquatic Resources so mahalo for having us.

Kaluhea Dudoit: Welina mai, me ke Aloha, ova o Kaluhea Fay Dudoit, nom Kaunakakai, Molokaʻi, Maio, Aloha, everyone. My name is Kaluhea Dudoit. I'm from Kaunakakai, Molokai, no ho nei, ma Maui, maka ma Pukalani, Maui. I'm living in Pukalani on Maui, and my position for the Division is the Native Hawaiian culture and history specialist. My background is in marine science and Hawaiian studies, both of my bachelor's from UH Hilo and yeah, we're grateful to be with you guys today to talk a little bit about our inoa ʻiʻa, our Hawaiian fish names. 

Kealaula Cockett: Aloha, popohile, hua kakou an ova o kealola, , kai koi, no Manana Eva Oʻahu nei. Aloha, everybody. My name is Kealaula Cockett. I'm from Manana Eva Oʻahu. I am the Hawaiian language specialist with DAR, background is in ʻike, Hawaiʻi, as well as ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi, glad to be here. Mahalo.

Patti: Okay, so let's jump right in. What is the most common ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi question that you guys get?

Kealiʻi: So I would say the most common ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi question that we get is to review proper spelling and use of Hawaiian names of fish, because I feel like that's kind of not something that our biologists always emphasize, or are using in everyday work that they do. And so they're not super familiar with all the Hawaiian names, and we're not super familiar with all the Hawaiian names as well. And so we have to, like, do some research and look it up. But yeah, that's what we consult with a lot. 

Patti: And let's just go over the fact that there are, like, how many endemic fish in Hawaiian waters that we know of? Because an endemic, for anyone who doesn't know what endemic is, that means they're found only in Hawaiʻi. So what's our what kind of numbers are we talking about? 

Kealiʻi: I don't have an exact number, but I do know that there are a ton of endemic species in our waters. We don't even know all the Hawaiian names for all of the species that we have here, and we're constantly rediscovering Hawaiian names and re applying them to the different species. As we discover new endemic species or rediscover new, endemic species. We say “rediscover,” because, from a Hawaiian perspective, we don't really know what our kūpuna the wealth of knowledge that our kūpuna have, we're only scratching the surface right now. And so from also from a Hawaiian perspective, is that, like we are genealogically tied to the natural environment around us, including the natural resources. And so it's not that we've never discovered these before, because we're actually related to them. They're our kūpuna. And so rediscovering, reacquainting ourselves with our with our ʻohana. We're here to talk about the importance of using the Hawaiian name, recognizing the host culture. Hawaiian language was, was strictly a spoken culture. There was no written language for Hawaiian and so in order to preserve all of the observations and the knowledge and the history of these species, in order to preserve all of that, it was put into things like moʻolelo or stories. It was put into things like names for those fish, or place names of areas. And so when you think about a Hawaiian name, it's not just something that a fish was called. It was something that held the story of that fish, or the story of that not just fish of limu, of of invertebrates, of the things that we have in our natural environment. That is how we preserved the ʻike and transferred it down from generation to generation. And so hopefully today, we'll give you some examples of that. 

Patti: Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. What do you think causes changes in name usage and evolution of names, like, how does that work over time? 

Kaluhea: A little background and history that'll help us to get a well rounded understanding of this. In the mid 1800s in Hawaiʻi, we had a lot of people from different places come to Hawaiʻi to come and work on plantations in Hawaiʻi, on sugar cane plantations and pineapple plantations. So we can see how, if there are fish species that are similar in other places and similar to what we have here in Hawaiʻi, these people from different places would use the names that are familiar to them. Towards the end of the 1800s where we, ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi, the Hawaiian language becomes banned. When Hawaiʻi becomes a territory, it gets overthrown, and that's probably then the other names of these species, whether it be the Japanese names of these fishes, or other languages that are used and are more easier to use or more convenient at the time, because ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi was was not allowed to be spoken towards the end of that, beginning of the 1900s.

Patti: Is it safe to say, then, with the language being banned, did we lose a lot of these names? Were there some that are lost? Or do you think it was recorded before? 

Kaluhea: So what we talk about and what we do as our Native Hawaiian program for DAR is a lot of research into the old Hawaiian newpepa, the old Hawaiʻi newspapers, old Hawaiian puke, our books. The people of this place, the Hawaiian people, are so excited. And you can feel it when you read, when you read the newspapers, and you read the books, the newspapers, especially, it's everyone writing in like this is what the stories that I know. This is what my family does. This is the fishes that we catch, and you can really feel their excitement to be to be able to share that, for them, to know that it's on paper and that it has a very high chance of being passed on. So now we're getting to read these things, and we can see all of these names, and some of them, I believe, have been lost, or, like Kealiʻi said, we don't even know all the names of all of the species that we have. Also a lot of oral recordings, manaleo, that are old kūpuna, our elders, Hawaiian elders. They got a lot of cool recordings and cool stuff that they shared. But now it's our job to be able to go into these things, and use our skill set in ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi to decipher and and go through all of these different resources to be able to, yeah, relearn them, and be able to share them so that they can be widely used. 

Patti: What are some of the examples of common mistakes or misconceptions when it comes to the fish names? 

Kaluhea: A really good example that we have, that also ties into that sociocultural aspect is our deep seven bottom fish, which a couple of them are more commonly known in Hawaiʻi and by fishermen as their Japanese names. And it's important to note too that the Japanese fishing culture during that time in Hawaiʻi played a big role in professionalizing the these deep seven bottom fish and with the practices and and techniques that they brought with them from that that their fishing style, It played a big role in kind of switching from subsistence fishing to creating a really structured commercial industry for fishing in Hawaiʻi. And so we have these deep seven bottom fish. So I'm going to share the common names of these bottom fish, and then I'm going to share the Hawaiian names for all of us. So the first one that we have is the Hawaiian grouper, and the Hawaiʻi name for this fish is hāpuʻu or hāpuʻupuʻu. The next one is the long tail red snapper, most commonly known as onaga. Everybody uses the name onaga, and that is great, but we have a Hawaiian name for this fish that that had its name since it was named by the people of this place. So the Hawaiian name for onaga is ulaʻula koaʻe. And we talk about the importance and the beauty in our Hawaiian language is being able to understand the characteristics or relationships that this species might have with another species, and that whole relationship or characteristics being within the name. So this name, ulaʻula koaʻe, for onaga. Ulaʻula is the Hawaiian word for red, the color red. So, but ulaʻula was also the name for various red snapper species. And then when they added another name after that for this species, it's ulaʻula koaʻe. It's helping to specify what species that is. And then so the word koʻae, koaʻe is also the name for one of our sea birds. It was probably named ulaʻula koaʻe because the long tail of of this fish is similar to that long tail that the koaʻe bird has. So it's cool that we get to see just within that name, this relationship characteristics, and also relationship between land and an ocean species. 

Kealiʻi: So the koaʻe, koaʻe, we have koae ʻula, which is the red tailed tropic bird, and the koaʻe kea, the white tailed tropic bird. And so if you look at like the koaʻe ʻula, and how the tail comes out, and then looking at the ulaʻula koaʻe, comparing like that, is pretty cool. 

Kaluhea: It is. It's really cool to be able to find that likeness between between things. And okay, the next one, the third of the bottom seven, is ruby or squirrelfish snapper, and we called it the Hawaiian name for this species is ehu. Ehu is another word that this defines like a reddish hue, reddish color, so we can see the resemblance in their characteristics. The next one is a pink snapper. This one is more commonly known by its Hawaiian name, opakapaka. I think out of all of them, that's the name that most people use the most. But yeah, that one is opakapaka. The next one is the Von Siebold’s snapper. The Hawaiian name for this fish is kalekale, not kalikali, not kalakala -  kalekale is the name for this fish. Oblique banded snapper, this one is also used more, its Japanese name is used more between fishers and fish markets, gindai, gindai, and the Hawaiian name for this fish is ʻukikiki. I'm gonna say it one more time, because it's kind of hard. ʻUkikiki is the Hawaiʻi name for the gindai. And then the last one out of the seven is the silver mouth snapper, and the Hawaiian name for this fish is lehe. But it's important again for us to use these Hawaiian names because they are the names that were given to these species by by our host culture, by the people of Hawaiʻi, and also because they give us great insight into the lives of these species.  

Patti: Well, it seems like a lot of these names, if the names serve different functions, obviously, but like the Hawaiian names that echo from a sea animal to a land organism, sometimes it's plants, it just reinforces that connection, right? The connection of everything. 

Kealiʻi: Yeah. And it's super interesting to think about, too, because we know that these connections exist, because we it for anybody who knows the Hawaiian names of these, like some of these species, and see the relation, like, there is a connection, but we don't really know what that connection is, but so, so there, I mean, there's, like, a whole movement, I think, within the Hawaiian Renaissance movement, of trying to understand what our kūpuna saw and and made them give these names to these species and like, what kind of connections there were, rather than just like, like face value, 

Kaluhea: And then being able to apply them to us today, because we go and we find all of these things, and we analyze it, and we try our best to understand where they were in that time, in that circumstance, and how their knowledge is applicable to us today. This is why we have ʻōlelo noʻeau, or we have so many Hawaiian proverbs that relate marine species with species on land. It was because ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi was an oral language. They made these creative ways to remember these connections. Because when they have to tell it to their kids, to their grandkids, they have to make this fun story that they make sure that they remember and now still unto this day we hear these stories as kids, and we hope to share them with our keiki too. But it was that importance of making sure that it was continued and all those little patterns that help us to remember them better. 

Kealiʻi: It's like the environmental version of me iwi mele. So me iwi mele is like, think about it, like a mechanism in storytelling, kind of like a form of, like rhyming, almost, but it's like a way to remember cadence and a way to remember, like really long mele or 

Kaluhea: Or even moʻokuʻauhau, genealogy, you have to find a way to make your brain remember it.  

Kealiʻi: So like these types of, like pilina that were made between terrestrial species and kai species, I think could have been a type of meiwi to remember, like these types of  

Kaluhea: Remember those connections and that they're important. 

Patti: So what are some of the maybe mispronunciations or mistakes, or anything with some of these species that are kind of common? 

Kealaula: Well, even just to touch on why we're trying to bring this back is to normalize these, not really lost, but these Hawaiian names us being the quote, unquote host culture here in Hawaiʻi, we want to try and revert back to these Hawaiian names and make them the common names once again, because of its, you know, deep and profound, not only history, but the stories that are the reason why these iʻa are named what they are. Some are actually fairly close, so we can see how the name actually got lost over time, one of which is commonly miscalled moana kali, when in actuality it's muano ukali. This, this fish,the muano is also qualified by by different descriptors as well. So there is muano ukali, muano ukali ulua, which I can touch upon a little bit more, as well as other descriptors,auki, kea really, based on on what type of muano it is, muano, meaning that paleish red color, the opelu kala, commonly called opelu kala, when in actuality, the the fish name is kala opelu. It's a kala that is similar to an opelu, or is found with these opelu. Once again, it's a misconception due to translation in sentence structure from English to Hawaiian. 

Kealiʻi: And you can, kind of, you can kind of see it right, like, if you're speaking Pidgin, and you're speaking Pidgin in English, what kind color you get, or what kind it's, it's the opelu kala. Like, that's kind of like how you talk about it, like in English, but pidgin English, and so that's how I think. I imagine opelu kala becoming the norm, being used, because it's like, what kind of kala you got? I got the opelu kala. But then, in actuality, if it's from a from a ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi perspective, because we are in Mahina ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi, I think, yeah, so kala opelu is actually the proper Hawaiian 

Kaluhea: that noun comes first. The descriptor comes second, yeah, in ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi. So we it's most commonly called opelu kala, and everywhere really, it will go in Hawaiʻi. But when we look at literature, we see kala opelu, because that is the correct ʻŌlelo Hawaʻi,  Hawaiian language structure is to say the fish. The noun first is a kala. It's a kala fish, but the description after it is opelu, because it is found around the schools of opelu. And the fishermen know these things, and that's why they get these names. 

Kealiʻi: And I think kala opelu is like, it's so institutionalized, like, I've talked to Kanaka lawaiʻa, who ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi, that have used opelu kala throughout their entire life, because that's just something that has been ingrained in them. Not even think stopping to think about the name I'm actually saying, and so it's so interesting. And I love having this conversation, especially with opelu kala-kala opelu, because just seeing that light bulb click in their head and like, oh my god, I never thought about it. Yeah, and even moana kali. Moana kali too is a good one, because, 

Kaluhea: like Kealiʻi said, it's a lot of them are very institutionalized, and we learn it from a very young age, even people that are Hawaiian language speakers, that live in Hawaiʻi, we learn it the wrong way, but because that was the way that it was taught to us and in that couple generations before us, that's the way it was taught to to our kupuna. 

Kealaula: And it's just about seeing the articles and the research, because I know even a lot of native speakers who mislabeled these fishes, as well as moana kali and opelu kala as native speakers. 

Patti: So what I'm hearing is that you go up to one fisherman at a time, and no, (laughter) 

Kaluhea: I grew up with my family saying opelu kala, that's what I grew up with. I knew not until I went into, like literature and read. And I think that's a really cool and an awarding part about our job is that, like we're always learning and again, reacquainting ourselves. These are like our kūpuna, our ancestors, and that connection is even stronger when we, I'm reading what someone 100 years ago wrote about, and they have like lists of fish names in the Hawaiian newspapers where we can confirm, okay, there's a letter that is misspelled in the way that we use it now, then there you can see it very clearly. 

Kealiʻi: The moment I started learning Hawaiian, I was like, well, I'm not gonna go to my uncle and start correcting him. Like, no. Like that. You just don't do those types of things. But you have to be a little bit more subtle about it. And so, like, when say, if you're in a conversation and you hear the wrong name used, you use the right name that you know is correct, and you the more you use it, the more they'll hear it, and then they'll start picking it up. And so, I mean, we're not encouraging people to go and start yelling at their grandma because they're using it. What we're seeing is, if you start using it, it'll start getting more laha or known and, and that's kind of more passive. 

Kealaula: Yes, as someone who is an avid not only fisherman, but spear diver, video observer, on, on the plethora of videos there is on, on YouTube. You know, 99.999999 will all be, you know, misusing these words. And another common fish that's misnamed is the star eyed uhu, commonly called pananu, which is fairly close to to its actual name, which is panunu or panu hoonu. 

Patti: One, one thing I did want to ask all of you, for some of us who are maybe at a little bit more remedial level of ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi, we're working on it. What are some good resources for us in this particular situation with the fish? 

Kaluhea: For people that don't grow up speaking Hawaiian, or is really just a beginner of hearing ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi, and wants to learn, the main resource that that we use in our research, I would just say, is wehewehe.org is our Hawaiian dictionary. You can put the name of something into the search bar in wehe.org without diacriticals, and it will show you the right spelling with the diacriticals, with the ʻokina and kahakō, if there are any in the word, and also really cool and just nerdy ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi things is that sometimes they'll, like, share the meaning in the meaning of the word, these like characteristics, or even like fun little stories that are related to these words. 

Kealiʻi: And you can even type in the English name and yeah, and if there's a match, it'll come back. If you were to type in pananu it would come back with nothing, and you'd be like, wait, what? So where did that name come from? And then you'd have to do a little bit more digging, and that's kind of how we figured out some of these names. I mean, that's how I found out about moana kali, and I because I typed in moana kali and it wasn't in there, and I was like, confused. And then you do a little bit more digging, and it becomes a scavenger hunt of following leads and and it's really cool, but yeah, wehi.org, is probably number one. Our main go to resource of online dictionary, for online dictionary, 

Kaluhea: and just for checking, we oh, it takes not long just to put it in there and just make sure before we're putting out different stuff that we're writing and proposals, or we're talking to different communities or people we it's a fast check just to make sure we're using the right words and spelling them correctly, too.

Kealiʻi: But your question, I think, highlights something that we've been working on as a native Hawaiian program within DAR there is no like accepted list of scientific names with associated common names and associated Hawaiian names with them, which is kind of crazy, right? And so we've kind of started the work going through our catch reporting databases and compiling all of the different scientific names and common names and Hawaiian names that were used, and we're in the process of refining that and hopefully coming out with a list of at least our regulated species with their scientific, English common names and Hawaiian names. Hopefully soon, it'll be on our DAR website. 

Patti: And then flash cards, right? And flash cards that would be great , Iʻm waiting for the DAR flash cards, 

Kealiʻi: DAR flash cards of male, female and juvenile. And we haven't even gotten into trying to bring back these, the use of these names in a western context that is primarily in English, we're coming across these, these new problems that we never knew we had, and it's been fun to try and figure out solutions. 

Patti: So I want to also get back to talking about, like, specific fish names and the stories behind those names. So the first one I will start with is our state fish. The obvious, humuhumunukunukuapuaʻa. People love saying it, including me. What is the story behind that name? 

Kealiʻi: So you can makawalu it right? And so makawalu is a term that we that is used to describe like breaking up the different portions of a name and figuring out the different meanings of the different portions to describe that species. There is a whole moʻolelo behind humuhumunukunukuapuaʻa. I'm not 100% expert on the moʻolelo of kamapuaʻa, but I do know that that specific fish is a kinolau of kamapuaʻa. And by kinolau, I mean is a physical manifestation in nature of a deity, right? And kamapuaʻa is a well known demi god in Hawaiian moʻolelo.  

Kealaula: And history, this is one of those where the moʻolelo comes into play too, also to keep that name passed on where they go hand in hand, moʻolelo, as well as name humuhumu is, I believe, the base name of the trigger fish. And then nukunuku is the snout or the beak of the fish. And then, of course, apuaʻa is like a pig, piglike triggerfish.

Kaluhea: Also relating to that puaʻa, because that nuku or that snout of of the of a pig, of the pig, of a pig is like, similar to 

Kealaula: the trigger fish, yeah, if you look at it, literally translate to humuhumu, or the trigger fish with a, pig like snout. 

Patti: Okay, so who has other favorites that you want to talk about,  

Kaluhea: to eat, or to say?

Patti: Oh, I don't know. I guess, well, I'll leave it open. You know, it's up to you. 

Kealaula: Easy yellow-eyed, oh! So, kole. And menpa- oh, see, there we go. Common Name and menpachi. 

Kealiʻi oh yeah, that's a good one.  

Kalalula: ʻŪʻū. 

Kealiʻi: I grew up calling it menpachi, yeah. And it was until working at DAR that I started, like, looking into these Hawaiian names and, ʻūʻū yeah. 

Kaluhea: ʻŪʻū 

Patti: And why the name ʻūʻū, like, what's the meaning behind that name? 

Kaluhea: It's the super cool menpachi, ok we all call it menpachi, the Hawaiian name, ʻūʻū, I'm not completely sure they can correct me if I'm wrong. It's the sound that it makes, that the fish makes underwater, when you're going to dive. You hear the menpachi make that sound. It sounds like that word ʻūʻū. Kealaula you want to give us the. 

[Kealaula makes ʻūʻū noise] 

Kealaula: Itʻs a common grunt, right? Yeah, which is also used by diverse divers too, to lure in fish. 

Kealiʻi: I personally prefer aweoweo. 

Kealaula: yeah, definitely. 

Kaluhea:  my favorite fish that I love to eat, just because it's the fish that I learned to fish with my papa, and that he always made for me is kala. Kala on the fire. Ko ala is to cook on the fire. Palai is the word for fry. So all the fish that we fry, kala is my favorite, but also more so because there is more sentimental value to it. 

Patti: And what is the name kala mean?  

Kaluhea: Thereʻs many definitions. And we can go, this is why it gets confusing, and this is why we got to check kala, the kala fish, it means like kala or kalakala, it's the texture of their of the skin of the kala. So it's a rough skin that they have, and that's what kalakala means. It's cool when we really get into it, because there's so much different cultural practices and things that go along with it. The kala fish their skin. The Hula practitioners use the skin of the kala to make punilu, to make small drums that go on your legs, that you use when for certain hula, certain Hawaiian traditional dances. And so I think that's an important thing to touch on, too, that a lot of these different species have various cultural practices that are attached to them. And I think that it all goes back to that continuation of those practices of the language. I think that ʻŌlelo Hawaii and Hawaiian culture does such a good job of tying all these things together so that it will continue to always move on into the future. 

Patti: This has been really great, like it's really been fun to learn about all these and for me, my favorite part is just learning the name, of course, and having the correct name to use for our organisms, but also why you know what that story is behind the name. I love the stories. So to close out, I just wanted to kind of go around the table and ask you, you know what? What makes this so rewarding for you in your work?  

Kealiʻi: For me,I didn't grow up speaking Hawaiian. I've always wanted to. I've always had the desire to the ʻiʻini, but just because of circumstances, I wasn't able to until I went to college in Hilo. The way that learning Hawaiian has changed my outlook and my perspective and view on the world around me, I think is so important and like it's really hard to explain. Your understanding how rich a name is because of the moʻolelo behind it, and understanding the connections, once you start learning what the Hawaiian parts of a name mean is like level one, maybe coming to level two. Being able to bring the rest of the people in Hawaiʻi to understand that, I think, will get people to make a connection again, with their natural resources and their aquatic resources around them, in a world where we've all become desensitized, right? And instead of looking at it as something as just a fish, using the Hawaiian name, you're one giving life to that fish, but you're also giving life to that moʻolelo, and you're making a pilina with that species and with that fish that you never had before. And I think that you don't get that when you use, one, a name from a culture that's not from here, two, a name from a culture that you can't personally connect to. And so even if you're not not Hawaiian, or can't speak Hawaiian you're in Hawaiʻi, use the Hawaiian name. 

Kaluhea: What's really rewarding for me in this in this job, in this position, I I grew up on Molokaʻi, speaking Hawaiian, ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi is, is my first language. I grew up very connected to the ocean, my my papa, my and my dad, my grandpa and my dad used to take me with them all the time to go fishing. The things you learn in those moments, in those practices, you learn about that connection. And we can we know these names and the stories it makes it fun for us to tell, easy for us to remember, in my experience living through it, especially on Molokaʻi, that subsistence and understanding, that connection, it makes you be able to manage, manage and protect it for for for the future, because that that's your food resource, and that's how our kids are going to continue to live and be healthy. It's always been instilled in me that importance. But I think what's really rewarding is that in this position where these things I have been raised with and come very naturally to me. I am learning a new skill of having to teach it to people who didn't grow up that way, didn't learn these things. They're not innate in them. So I think it's a really good skill that I'm learning to be able to break it down, to be able to teach it to to people that that don't, don't know a lot about it, don't, maybe don't know anything about it. And that's been really rewarding for me, because, as we, you know, go down to the base level of ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi, and names for me to see, like the light bulbs go off in people's minds when we're teaching them these different stuff is really cool and and I just hope that we can, we can continue to to learn and share. 

Kealaula: Yeah, what's most rewarding to me is actually two things. So first, I was always a more of a mountain person. My whole life, I appreciated the ocean, but not to the extent that I do now. Like I said, I was always more of a mountain person, fresh water, land organisms, probably because I'm fair skinned and I burn easy. (Laughter) Like to stay under the comfort of the shade and the trees and fresh water. So now I have a new, deeper respect for ocean and everything that I'm learning about that, and that goes in hand with the second thing I love to do. To research and learn new things. What's rewarding about this is, is I get to share this knowledge now, rather than hoard this research to myself. 

Kaluhea: I think just jumping off Kealaula, that's like a really cool thing too. Is that with all these research resources being in ʻŌlelo, Hawaiʻi, it's it's only the people that speak ʻŌlelo Hawai'i and can read and decipher it, that is going to understand the meaning in those words. So so it's been really cool for us as our native Hawaiian program, to go in and find all those things and then add it into projects that we're doing, management plans for different areas and different things, and have the people that are not able to to read ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi and learn them be be so excited and so grateful for this new, new well of knowledge that we have in our ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi resources. 

Patti: All right. Well, I want to thank all of you for joining me today, and I want to thank all of you for the work that you're doing. I mean, you're really living out that part of the DLNR mission to protect our cultural resources, our natural resources too, of course, but really, you're on both sides of that mission, and it's great work. And I was really excited for this conversation. I'm glad that I got to learn a lot today from all of you, and I look forward to learning more. I'd also like to say mahalo to our listeners who will be hearing this in March, because every month can be Hawaiian language month. [words of agreement] 

Patti: Our theme music is provided by Kawika Kahiapo. Thanks for joining us today on Hawaiʻi Conservation Kuleana A hui hou!

[music]