Back to Back, One Month MD Podcast

Healthcare and Letters of Protection (LOP)

• Season 1 • Episode 3

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In this episode, we explore the often overlooked but crucial topic of Letters of Protection (LOPs). Our guest, insurance attorney, Will Allan, explains how these legal tools can provide essential support for accident victims seeking medical treatment without the burden of upfront costs. This comprehensive discussion unpacks the ins and outs of LOPs, including why many medical providers hesitate to accept them and how patients can advocate for themselves in these situations. 

Will shares experiences drawn from over 25 years in law, guiding listeners through the complex interplay of legal and medical issues that can arise post-accident. From understanding liability and ensuring fair treatment to the importance of prompt medical attention, this episode is designed to empower those dealing with the aftermath of an accident.

Listeners will also learn about the critical need for healthcare providers to be receptive to LOPs, ensuring patients receive the care they need when faced with financial barriers. With insights on establishing liability and maintaining proactivity in both medical and legal settings, this conversation serves as a valuable resource for anyone navigating these challenging waters.

Join us as we delve into the world of LOPs, equip yourself with the knowledge to make informed decisions, and encourage active participation in both your health and legal journey. Subscribe and share this episode with those who may benefit from understanding their options post-accident, and be an active participant in your care!

Dr. Mark Moran:

All right guys, welcome back. This is another episode of Back to Back with Dr Mark Moran, and I have a special guest here, mr Will Allen. Or should I call you Dr Will Allen? Technically, you're Dr Jurisprudence.

Will Allen:

Yeah, that's true, right, that's true. But you can just call me Will Just Will. Yeah, just Will Just call me Mark.

Dr. Mark Moran:

And today we are going to be talking about LOPs, LOPs.

Will Allen:

LOPs yes.

Dr. Mark Moran:

A lot of my patients say what's a LOP? Okay, so we're going to talk about LOPs, which are Letter of Protections. Will's an expert in this and has been practicing law for a long time. I have, so let's get started. First things first Ready. What's the coolest thing you've ever done?

Will Allen:

Oh man.

Dr. Mark Moran:

There's too many.

Will Allen:

There's really there's too many, but I will say things that I like to do. I can't just point to one and go that's the coolest thing I've ever done.

Dr. Mark Moran:

I love hanging out with my family.

Will Allen:

I know, that sounds dull, but I have three boys and if I'm doing something with my three boys whether it's fishing, whether it's hunting, whether we're talking about God with other people or I'm doing that on my own those are the things I really, really like to do. So family is critical and, of course, my wife. Yeah, she's the only female, so there's a tremendous amount of test after of course there and she's kind of fallen in line with what we do.

Dr. Mark Moran:

So we, I agree do things very good, good. So you're a good dad, that's good, and your boys go to ut right. Yeah, no we bleed maroon, I understand like we're talking about and my kids bleed as well. There you go, so tell us a little bit about yourself so we can get started. We need a fun, fundamental level of understanding, and then I'm going to dive into harder questions.

Will Allen:

Okay, I've been practicing law for 25 long years and went to Texas A&M where I graduated with a civil engineering degree, and about my junior year I decided I really didn't want to design bridges and I was not going to be good at it.

Dr. Mark Moran:

I heard it's really hard to get a 4.0 there.

Will Allen:

Yes, it is yes it's very hard.

Dr. Mark Moran:

So anyone that gets a 4.0 in engineering A&M props to them.

Will Allen:

Props yes.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Props to them.

Will Allen:

William, my son way to go.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Strong work.

Will Allen:

So I said why not law school? We'll go there, and so I went to law school not knowing truly what I was going to do, like, okay, I can be a lawyer or a CEO, because I've heard if you have an engineering degree and a law degree, you can be a CEO of Fortune 500 companies. I just didn't quite conceptualize. There's 500 of those companies, so it's kind of competitive.

Dr. Mark Moran:

They do call it Fortune 500. I don't know why they got it.

Will Allen:

So I didn't quite fit that. But what happened when I was in law school? I competed in a mock trial competition and it was like god came down and said this is what you should do and I really really liked it argumentative. I read speculative.

Dr. Mark Moran:

You know the objections I wanted to say that ever since I booked this, I'm going to object the whole time.

Will Allen:

If I ever say anything, you know crass or off-color, you just object to it Spectative Argumentative Leading the witness. Ask and answer. Those are legit objections. I know I watch TV and really I came out of law school. I clerked for some law firms that were trial lawyers. It's really what I wanted to do and I started on the dark side, the insurance company side.

Dr. Mark Moran:

You worked on the insurance company side, the dark side, wow.

Will Allen:

So I worked for insurance, defense firms, defense firms, and then I went out on my own and started representing people.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Okay, so it probably makes you really good at what you do now, because you have an inside insight about what's going on from the insurance side. So what made you switch then?

Will Allen:

It got old representing insurance companies where I would send them a bill because you bill by the hour, which is different when you represent people who can't afford to pay by the hour always like an insurance company can. And they would say no, that telephone call that needs to be only 0.1. You shouldn't have spent 18 minutes on that and so they would really cut my bills and really we weren't representing people. We were really truly representing the insurance company.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Because those were Well we know insurance companies.

Will Allen:

they control so much. People don't realize how much insurance companies control in this country. It's a lot, it's tremendous, so we're glad you made control in this country. It's a lot, it's tremendous, so we're glad you made it to this side.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Thank you, okay, and you've been working on this side for 13 years 13 years. And you're an expert in your thing, your area. Yes, so what is a LOP A?

Will Allen:

LOP Letter of Protection. A Letter of Protection is a letter where we are protecting as lawyers or the doctor, the client, so that they can get medical care if they don't have insurance or they don't want to use their insurance where the patient, our client, is treated under a letter of protection, such that they don't have to pay up front okay, and when do you get to use these lops?

Dr. Mark Moran:

so what's the most common types?

Will Allen:

let me give you an example with somebody who has health insurance, they will be involved in some kind of accident, whether it's a car accident whether it's a slip and fall, whether it's something really really significant explosion in the oil field and we'll take a smaller example car wreck they call. If they have a lot of people don't have primary care physicians, but they'll call their primary care physician and set up an appointment and the primary care physician says, or their staff, oh, you're involved in an accident. We don't treat accidents.

Dr. Mark Moran:

I hear about this a lot.

Will Allen:

Quick story when I was a defense lawyer I deposed a lot of injured people and I would always ask them why didn't you go? Because we'd get their medical records them. Why didn't you go?

Dr. Mark Moran:

we get their medical records.

Will Allen:

Why don't you go to your primary care physician? And they'd say, because they wouldn't take me they don't take LOPs. I was involved in a wreck and they won't, they wouldn't, and I was like sure they. But since I have been representing people for 13 years, I was shocked.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Yeah, a lot of doctors don't take LOPs. Well, you tell me.

Will Allen:

Why is?

Dr. Mark Moran:

it.

Will Allen:

I mean, I can think they don't want to have to give deposition testimony, they don't want to have to constantly give their medical records to attorneys when they're subpoenaed, but they don't want to.

Dr. Mark Moran:

And it's a risk. So we're taking the case on contingency. So if the case is lost, we lose all of our field fees and it takes a long time to get paid. How long?

Will Allen:

does it usually take to close the LLP?

Dr. Mark Moran:

case it varies it on years. Many that can yes it absolutely can a lot of doctors don't have the bandwidth to deal with that and just keep on carrying forward charges till the end the case and when they might not even win. So a lot of doctors just choose not to do LOP cases.

Will Allen:

Well, and I will say it's really important that doctors like you will take LOPs, because there are people who don't have health insurance and they can't afford necessarily to pay your fees Right and an LOP when they're involved in an accident of some sort, a wreck, slip and fall. Wherever somebody else's negligence, where there's an insurance policy, right, doctors like you in particular, you can help them. Yeah, and we'll take an LOP.

Dr. Mark Moran:

So certainly there's pros and cons to working with LOPs versus an insurance company.

Will Allen:

Okay.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Yes, and you agree. I agree, there's pros and cons For you.

Will Allen:

Sure On the medical side.

Dr. Mark Moran:

So we listed that it's a free medical care until the end of the case. Nothing is paid during the case, correct? That's right. Okay, if I say something wrong, tell me I will. I'm just a doctor, I play one on TV and then they get usually preferred treatment getting scheduling and appointments because they're part of the LLP process, instead of having to wait longer and longer to see doctors my understanding I use we usually try to get our patients in quicker. They don't have to worry about other issues, about dealing with pharmacies or imaging places, therapy places, because once again under the LLP, you know these places are gonna already take those services correct okay, some of the cons are they gotta wait a while till the case is closed.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Sometimes, right absolutely right and there's a lot of detail involved. There's a lot of details that will help my patients out under LPs. I'm sure you have the same thing when you have clients that have LPs and like, oh, I wish you guys would just understand that. It's very important that you understand this is a legal case and there's things that you can do to help your case out. True.

Will Allen:

Yes.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Okay, so what's the best thing they can do to help out their case if they have an LOP case?

Will Allen:

And our typical LOP letter of protection. That really, thank God. A good doctor like you will take is that sometimes we don't win Right Most of the time. I will say I think the statistics are 98% of all cases settle.

Will Allen:

And you can get paid. The other doctors who may have treated one of my you can get paid. The other doctors who may have treated one of my clients can get paid. We get paid our attorneys fees and generally the client of course gets paid for their pain and suffering that they've experienced mental anguish, there could be disfigurement sure, the physical impairment that they're compensated for, but if it doesn't work out, they could still potentially have to pay the doctors. So it's really really important that we make sure and we vet our cases so that we can help our client, because not every case that we come across can we establish liability.

Will Allen:

Because we're dealing with liability insurance policies, which is very different from, say, health insurance.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Is that the main important thing to do is establish liability.

Will Allen:

Both. They go hand in glove so if we can't establish liability generally, we would turn the case away.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Okay.

Will Allen:

And I could give you a bunch of examples about when there wouldn't be a liability.

Dr. Mark Moran:

If you're the one that runs into the rear of somebody.

Will Allen:

You're the tortfeasor. Well, that's not going to work.

Dr. Mark Moran:

So when you say liability, you mean who's at fault. Who's at fault? Right, okay, so if someone is not at fault, then it's not their liability. You probably would accept that case yes if someone is at fault then it's probably harder to take accept those cases right usually what happens is, I mean as far as their medical care.

Will Allen:

There's insurance policies automobile policies. They have personal injury protection where it's a no fault type of insurance. Hopefully they have some health insurance, but we're dealing with automobile insurance policies.

Dr. Mark Moran:

And there's a lot of different coverages.

Will Allen:

There's lots of different rules.

Dr. Mark Moran:

It's like insurance policies. There's many different insurance policies. There's not one set of rules that govern everyone. Even in the same, like Blue Cross, blue Shield or Humana, there's different insurance. Little innuendos like details that you got to know Right.

Will Allen:

And different coverages.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Yeah, and can anyone get an LOP? Or is there criteria to get to meet to get an LOP? So an LOP is a letter that we prepare.

Will Allen:

So as long as we establish the attorney-client relationship because we believe they have a case, we can fight for them for a recovery. Then if they don't have health insurance, or if they do, but they don't want to use their health insurance, because if somebody hurt, you, run into you with a car, whatever the case may be.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Some people say I mean I've got a $5,000 deductible and the rates will go up.

Will Allen:

All of those things. So they would rather treat under an LOP. We give them that option. We give people that option. Sometimes people don't have any other option but an LOP so just the criteria. Is that we can establish that there's an at-fault party? With insurance Right, that's really importantault party with insurance Right, that's really important. Liability insurance.

Dr. Mark Moran:

And is there a certain time frame that would be good for, say, someone gets an accident, they go home, they're trying to see if they need to do any therapies or emergency services or go to the ER or a doctor? Is there any time frame that they really need to start considering if they want to go see or get involved with a lawyer to see if they're an LP candidate or not? Can they wait?

Will Allen:

years. That's a great question. It's a really, really good question. It is much better for their case if they seek medical care ASAP and I'll tell you why If they don't insurance company adjustersers, insurance company defense lawyers which I was- that start questioning whether they're really hurt. Sure, I've the veracity, I've seen it of like.

Dr. Mark Moran:

If you're in so much pain, why did you wait months to come see a doctor?

Will Allen:

you're just, it's a money grab. That's why you're here and it's I mean people try to gut it out. They try to do some home exercise, especially now instagram. You know you can find sciatica and you start doing exercises and maybe they try that. But if you have liability insurance, the other party, or you have underinsured motorist coverage, we can talk about if you wanted to and educate some people about the different types of coverages as long as there's coverage right A lot of different coverages under an insurance policy.

Will Allen:

They need to go and they need to go for themselves, of course, to get better, but also so that they can be paid.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Their doctor's expenses can be paid without a claims adjuster going nah they're not being truthful, and I've seen that personally with patients that get in an accident. They report these pains and then a week or two or three later they get in another accident, which really complicates it, because now which pain is caused by which which accident? Or they go to lift up some presents that they're wrapping for the kids and they hurt their back, and now is the pain coming from the accident or from lifting up their gifts, or they're doing yard work or whatever else. So I I agree with you. I think that the sooner the better to get some type of objective evaluation or data that can't be refuted.

Dr. Mark Moran:

So either get a physician opinion or go get some x-rays or go get an urgent care opinion. That way you say, this is objective data. This is what happened after my injury and then we can see how things go.

Will Allen:

Absolutely, yeah, well said, and for yourself, so many people are really busy, they don't have time. I don't want to go to a doctor right now. See if this can better on its own, and that's not the route to go when you're dealing with this situation.

Dr. Mark Moran:

For yourself.

Will Allen:

Go Get treatment.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Make sure you're okay, Because it is a fact that you could have underlying injuries that are festering, that you could be asymptomatic for a while and they just kind of bleed, bleed, bleed or some type of problems and then later it gets really bad really fast. Absolutely, I agree with you that you need to get, take care of yourself, make sure you're okay and then go get some type of objective data in case you decide to use an LOP or not. So far I agree with your answers. You can't object with me.

Will Allen:

I can start objecting. You can want it if you want.

Dr. Mark Moran:

I would love to be able to overrule an objection from a lawyer. Okay, and then what's the usual amount of time? I know it varies that an LOP case takes before the time to accident to the time to settlement.

Will Allen:

I have helped people with cases where they finished their medical treatment and it's two weeks later that we settled. I had cases where I had to file a lawsuit and especially now with COVID, the courts have always been backed up. But even gosh, we're almost five years post-COVID right. And the courts are still backed up with cases. So it really really varies.

Dr. Mark Moran:

And it oftentimes depends on liability yeah, questionable liability.

Will Allen:

And the insurance company and their lawyers are fighting really hard and they don't want to pay what we believe is fair. And next thing, you know you're at the courthouse and you're picking a jury and you've got to try it and that takes years to get there.

Dr. Mark Moran:

So it's better to kind of I'm sorry, go ahead and finish, and that takes years to get there, so it's better to kind of I'm sorry, go ahead and finish Well.

Will Allen:

So on a quick. I would say a quick would be six weeks after medical treatment is squared away in a long time. I mean, I've tried a case where you know the accident was gee 2012 and it was 2017. Oh, it was 2017 to try the case, and those can be more significant type injury cases as well, because there's a lot more dollars that are needed for the client and insurance companies don't want to pay those kind of dollars.

Dr. Mark Moran:

I'm sure that varies depending if it's a commercial case or a private case.

Will Allen:

Absolutely.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Commercial case being like a business entity versus another person walking off the street that hits you.

Will Allen:

That's right. So a business would be like I don't want to necessarily use business name, but a supermarket.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Mark's Cookie Company, Mark's Cookie Company LLC. He loves oatmeal raisin and chocolate chip with nuts.

Will Allen:

I'm just saying um, yes, or 18 wheeler they have. They've got to have big policies. They're really big, 80 000 pound missiles cruising down the road and when they're hit somebody, usually because they're hurting them bad, so there's big policy limits there right, um, and so yes, that typically takes a little longer to resolve. Joe blow rear-ending somebody and they've got low back pain or neck pain and they seek treatment.

Will Allen:

Maybe they get shots, which I'd like to visit with you about, because I'm sure you get a lot of that. Microtransplant certainly say sure does it hurt? What is that? Um, and those typically resolve sooner, okay, rather than later okay.

Dr. Mark Moran:

So I know that when I see patients lop patients, I always try to educate them about what to do a big, big person, about education, knowledge is power and I say try not to try not to let there be a lapse in service or evaluations. It makes it really hard if someone goes to a therapist for one or two times and then six months later they go back to the therapist and say, oh, can I continue my treatment? Because now there's six months of who knows what happened. And it's the same thing with doctors. If you go see a doctor and they evaluate you and say you got to do this plan and then they don't come back for two or three months, it really makes it hard to justify why aren't you coming to see us if you're claiming you have all this pain.

Dr. Mark Moran:

So I encourage my patients to be actively involved with their case and if they miss an appointment or miss an MRI or miss therapy or they forget their medicines, you need to go get that stuff. It's very important, because it's a legal case, that you have to say you're building a picture to show your lawyer and the other lawyer what's going on and you want to make sure that you're building a picture to show your lawyer and the other lawyer what's going on and you want to make sure that you're maximizing the probability of you winning this case and there should be no lapses of therapies so when you tell a patient you need this type of medical treatment, and they only do half of it, right?

Will Allen:

that's not good medically. Maybe you can speak into a little bit of that, and it's certainly not good for the case. Because what happens? The insurance adjuster or the defense lawyer says, yeah, I mean, look, you weren't really hurt or that. No wonder you're hurt. You didn't follow doctors.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Exactly that's what they usually say is you're not getting better because you're not following your doctor's orders.

Will Allen:

Now, of course, if they're better and they don't need anything.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Perfect, if they're healed and their pain is gone, then you don't need to do anything else. But still you should go in and get a final evaluation to show again objective data that they're all better, there's no more problems. It'll help your case. But I agree with you that patients need to be actively involved with their case and continue to follow up with their doctors or therapists or take their medicines or see their lawyers, because you don't want a lapse of time because it weakens the case.

Will Allen:

I agree 100% weakens their recovery time.

Dr. Mark Moran:

So what is it that you?

Will Allen:

say you need to be educated. Use the art of war in some of your episodes.

Dr. Mark Moran:

If you fail to prepare, you're preparing to fail.

Will Allen:

Yeah, I mean those kind of things hold true. Educate yourself. Educate yourself about medicine, what you tell your patients in your podcast which includes educating yourself about your case. Talk to your or whoever it may be about your case, so that you know and you're educated and can make decisions and improve your case.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Knowledge is power. Never hesitate to ask a question. We're happy to help out. A lot of times we have a lot of things to do, but ask us a question, we're happy to help out. I'm sure you are the same way, absolutely. Okay, let's take a time out, okay, and now you're going to give me two truths and a lie after a word from our sponsors.

Will Allen:

Okay, sponsors, so go ahead. I thought there was going to be somebody to come at you now.

Dr. Mark Moran:

No, this is it. This is it. I use the same joke every time. I probably need to come up with a new joke, but anyway. So we want to know about you. Your clients want to know about you. They don't get a chance to talk to you very often. It's usually probably very busy. So two truths and a lie. I'm going to see if I can guess your lie based on reading you.

Will Allen:

See how good I'd be at a lawyer. No, I like that. I like that you tell me the lie, okay.

Dr. Mark Moran:

I mean about me.

Will Allen:

I became a lawyer.

Will Allen:

That's a lie and I really, truly like to help people. It's not just about earning a paycheck Obviously, I have family and kids to feed and a couple to put through college but helping people in a number of different cases Okay, and it is injury case, of course that can run the gamut to somebody who is a significantly burned, a burned victim, somebody who loses a loved one in some kind of accident, I can be there to not just help them financially, which usually they really need health care future health care, that kind of thing.

Will Allen:

But they're hurting not just physically. In all, cases it's mentally, in all cases it's mentally. And to be able to walk with them through that and minister I'm a believer and to minister to them and with them for their spirit, their heart, is stuff I genuinely love to do.

Dr. Mark Moran:

They've got to be able to trust you.

Will Allen:

Yes.

Dr. Mark Moran:

I'm saying that's a truth.

Will Allen:

That is a truth, okay.

Dr. Mark Moran:

So you've got one more truth and one more lie.

Will Allen:

I'm still trying to guess what the lie is. I'm not good at lying, so you got you. You tell me what's a lie about me that you've kind of read okay, I'm gonna say a truth is how about this? This, this is a lie, okay, okay, go ahead.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Okay, I would say you used to play baseball, or you used to play basketball and dunk balls.

Will Allen:

Good poker face. Good poker face. That's it. No, that's good, that's good. Yeah, I think my vertical's about like this Anyway, it is what it is.

Dr. Mark Moran:

It is what it is Okay. So moving on. And it is what it is, it is what it is Okay, so moving on. I'm going to say what's your fundamental lesson that you want your clients to know through this podcast so that, moving forward, as everyone comes in and you start getting tons of business because everyone knows that you're a great lawyer and they can trust you and you're going to be with them the whole time what do you say? Help yourself out by helping me with this information. What is it?

Will Allen:

What would I? What do I tell my clients? And one of the things that I tell them to help them in their case and their family, is get medical treatment. Get the medical treatment that you need so that you can get better or as best you can because you can't necessarily heal certain type of injuries but get the medical care that you need so that later on in the future you're not suffering more than you are now, and the thing I'll say about that is what's the first thing stewardess or airline people say when you get on a flight?

Dr. Mark Moran:

They say first put the oxygen on you and take care of yourself so you can take care of others. It's very similar with these LOP patients. They feel like they can't come in or they don't want to come in because they have other things to do. But it's exactly the opposite. They need to come in and get treated so they can take care of themselves and, consequently, they can take care of others. That's right. And then say people come in and they get an LOP and they're going through all kinds of stuff, but they don't have any options to go to the surgeon for evaluation or go get injections or they don't want to take any medicines. A lot of times people don't want to take medicines. So what are the options? If they don't really want to go to a doctor's office, what's the best thing for them to do?

Will Allen:

That's a great question. I'm not a medical doctor and I say this is where you should go and I encourage them to seek medical treatment, seek medical advice, seek medical care. And if they don't do that, there's not a whole lot that we really can do, so that would be something for you, well. I'm kind of curious when they ask you why don't you? What do you typically tell patients? They say I don't want to take that medicine or I'm really scared of needles. I don't want to. You know, I don't want an injection.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Sure, I'm a big advocate for patients are in control, like I know. They come to me for help, but they're in control. They decide what they want or what they don't want, and it's very much a conversation to find out something that we can meet on and agree on. If they don't want to do injections, they don't have to do injections. If they don't want to try medicines, they don't have to try medicines. If they don't want to see a surgeon, then they don't see a surgeon. They're very much driving the boat.

Dr. Mark Moran:

I'm basically kind of offering them or educating them to options and then we'll talk about it and see I'll answer questions. They say I don't want to do that. Okay, then let's move on to other options. One option that I think is a good option for patients that really don't want to do medicines or afraid of needles, or don't want to have surgery, is the one month MD program that we have, where patients can go online 24, seven and educate themselves about what's going on. So it's available 24-7 and it's very good educational material so they can become an active participant in their health and they don't even have to leave their house so while they're recovering from this injury, if they don't want to seek medical attention in the ways that we usually do, they can still get better just from understanding the pathology. The course talks about the causes and the treatments and the prevention of low back pain.

Will Allen:

Okay, objection Overruled, I've got to object. I know what pathology means, but what does pathology mean?

Dr. Mark Moran:

Well, pathology means something that's not right, Like if you have a pathology in a body. That means something isn't right. So if they're talking about pathologies after an accident, something is wrong causing the pain.

Will Allen:

Herniated disc. That's a pathology disc bulge yeah, all those are pathologies obviously broken bone so, and I'm sorry to interrupt you no you're fine. I really I didn't. I didn't have a good objection, just objection. You were saying then they have pathology like a herniated disc and they don't want to do something that you would recommend Right, and you would say, and I will say, your program really truly is good.

Dr. Mark Moran:

I haven't seen all of it, but what I have seen is very, very informative. Thank you, they can watch, yeah, so what they can do is they can either go directly online to onemonthmdcom or they can talk to the lawyer and say, hey, can you send an LLP to me? And then I'll just give them access to the course and they can get it and it all goes under the LLP Outstanding.

Will Allen:

And so what are a couple of things on the podcast or the course, the course, thank you. That would really help a low back somebody who has pathology.

Dr. Mark Moran:

L5 s1 look at you with your medical terminology I know well and you know what?

Will Allen:

I had an anatomical little model. I did and I left it in my, in my car. Just I'm kind of curious, you know. Okay, point it out, look at it. But if it is pathology that's impinging, touching the nerve root, causing some pain, generally that's treated how. And then segue to help me better understand what you would recommend they do or something that's in your course, that you could say this is something good to do.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Very good question. Sustained objection. I'm going to answer that one. In general, I educate my patients. There's four things to do for any type of pain. It's conservative things like therapy, acupuncture, chiropractor, different types of conservative things. Then it's medicines, whether it be prescription medicines or non-prescription medicines.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Then it's interventions like injections and then it's surgery. So if you take all these options that make it really hard to understand or complex and just break it down to those four categories, then it's easier to understand what you're willing to do and what you don't want to do. If a patient comes in they say I don't want to do surgery or injections, then I know the options are going to be conservative care and or medications.

Will Allen:

They don't want the other two groups.

Dr. Mark Moran:

If they say, well, I really want to do therapy and I'd be happy with injections, but I don't want to do medicines, then those are the options. We'll try therapy first and there's an algorithm. You usually go from conservative to medicines, to interventions, to surgery. You want to do things and not have any regrets, like you don't want to go to surgery right off and then have a problem which almost never happens but it's possible. And then you say I wish I would have tried other things first. So I tell my patients there's algorithms. You follow conservative things like physical therapy or chiropractor, over-the-counter medicines, rest, ice heat. Then you try medicines prescription medicines or non-prescription medicines. Then, if you want, you can try injection. There are many different types of injections to treat pain. And then the last option as far as LLP cases would be go see a surgeon just to see if you need surgery.

Dr. Mark Moran:

A lot of times clients think that if they're going to surgeon they have to have surgery. That's not true. Remember, the client is the boss, the client is in control and they should never do anything that they don't want to do just because they're talking to you or me or anyone else. If they don't want to do it, they say I don't want to do that and that's fine. But if they go to a surgeon and the surgeon says you're not a surgical candidate, then we know that that's no longer an option.

Dr. Mark Moran:

And now we have three options to reevaluate. If they say you are a surgical candidate, it's still up to the patient to determine if they want surgery or not. The patient or the client is the boss. They make the decisions and they should never do anything they don't want to do. It's very simple. The course goes through these options in more detail about what they can do at home as far as causes of low back pain, the treatments that are available, which are those four things, and then actually preventing pain from coming back and minimizing it in the future.

Will Allen:

Which is what? What would be an example of preventing pain or minimizing it in the future?

Dr. Mark Moran:

Very good. Important thing I believe in is core strength, and in the course I say a strong core gets you more, gets you more of everything. So a strong core is going to make sure you offload stress from your spine. It's going to minimize your chance of bulging discs. It's going to make you more stable in dealing with these pains. So Pilates is an option. Yoga is really good. Weight loss is good. Definitely, don't smoke. Maintain hydration. All these things will help prevent pain from coming up.

Will Allen:

Do you give them exercises I haven't gotten that far in your course or do you recommend that they go to a chiropractor or a physical therapist for those types of exercises I give?

Dr. Mark Moran:

all the options, so I give suggestions for exercises at home or we have it on our social media or I say if you want to try a chiropractor, I'm happy to send you to a chiropractor. I'm just sort of a facilitator the client and the patient is the boss. I work for them at that point and I'm just giving them their options and they ask me questions and then we will agree with what's best of them, but they have the ultimate decision.

Will Allen:

They're the boss, right? They're the boss. We give them options and they choose what they want to do.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Pretty simple they're there, they're the boss, they make the decisions okay, as we close, and tell us where your location is, where are your offices?

Will Allen:

so right off of Northwest military, we've got a website.

Dr. Mark Moran:

What's the website?

Will Allen:

WillAllenLawcom.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Will Allen Law. It's A-L-L-A-N.

Will Allen:

A-L-L-A-N and we've got a great team. I really love my team. We've got great lawyers, great legal staff. We help a lot of people and intend to do so as long as the good Lord will let me.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Well, I know that my patients that have seen you have had nothing but good things to say about you.

Will Allen:

That's likewise.

Dr. Mark Moran:

I thank you for helping out my patients in your cases, so I appreciate that. Right on Northwest Military yes, right. And then, what else can you tell us before we say goodbye?

Will Allen:

Get medical care if you need it. Don't hesitate and don't wait. Contact a lawyer as well. You don't want to wait to contact a lawyer If an adjuster calls you an insurance adjuster and says, oh yeah, we'll pay you this, and it's usually right after the wreck.

Dr. Mark Moran:

Don't do it.

Will Allen:

Seek legal help, call us. We'd love to help you, but there's also other lawyers who you can call A lot of good lawyers. A lot of good lawyers who can help you make the right decision, give you the options that we just talked about and you can make the decision on how you want to proceed.

Dr. Mark Moran:

So be actively involved. Actively involved, be an active participant, not a passive recipient in your life, absolutely.

Dr. Mark Moran:

It's the main thing in my courses, so be actively involved with your case, learn about the legal process, learn about LOPs or LOPs. Lops Learn about Will Allen and make sure you think he's a good guy, or just trust me Be an active participant and not a passive recipient, and you, too will find health and improvement. Thank Be an active participant and not a passive recipient, and you, too, will find health and improvement. Thank you so much for coming on.

Will Allen:

Dr Mark, it's always a pleasure.

Dr. Mark Moran:

It's always good to see you. It's just Mark, it's all good. Okay, all right.

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Dr. Mark Moran

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