Back to Back, One Month MD Podcast
Back to Back, One Month MD Podcast
Hosted by Dr. Mark Moran, this podcast dives into the fast-paced world of medicine, education, and personal growth. Each episode features insightful conversations with expert guests, sharing knowledge, experiences, and the mindset needed to excel in healthcare and beyond. Whether you're a medical professional, student, or lifelong learner, tune in for inspiring discussions that keep you moving forward—back to back.
Back to Back, One Month MD Podcast
Educators, Low Back Pain, and Disk Herniations
Dr. Mark Moran welcomes his brothers Scott and Mike to discuss how people can empower themselves with knowledge to prevent pain and live healthier lives, with special focus on teachers facing health challenges.
• 63% of Texas teachers experience low back pain primarily due to poor ergonomics and extended periods of sitting or standing
• Teachers work an average of 54 hours weekly with less than half that time spent in school
• Becoming an "active participant" in health rather than a "passive recipient" is critical for preventing pain
• Scott Moran shares his personal journey of losing 30 pounds and eliminating pain through gradual exercise and yoga
• Like airplane oxygen masks, teachers must prioritize their own health before they can effectively help students
• Approximately 80% of Americans will experience back pain in their lifetime
• The Barricade device can reduce disc reherniation by 81% after discectomy surgery for patients with severe herniation
• 60% of American fourth graders aren't reading at grade level, with Texas projecting future prison construction based on third-grade reading scores
• Reading with children for just 15 minutes daily significantly improves outcomes
Visit onemonthmd.com for more education about causes, treatments, and prevention of low back pain.
Welcome back to another version of Back to Back. This is Dr Mark Moran, and we are here again to try and help you empower yourself with knowledge and education about what you can do to help prevent pain and live a happy, healthy life. My two guests today. They lost a bet and they had to come on the show. One of them is my brother, the other one is my other brother. I would like to welcome my two favorite brothers.
Speaker 2:That's good.
Speaker 1:Dr Scott Moran.
Speaker 3:That's me.
Speaker 1:And Mike Moran.
Speaker 3:He doesn't have a doctor.
Speaker 1:He does have spirit hands. Which one's more important? Spirit hands? Or doctor Spirit hands? Take you so much further. I have spirit hands. Yes, yes, which one's more important? Spirit hands? Or doctor spirit hands? Take you so much further. I think spirit hands would be very important. This is why my hair is thinning.
Speaker 3:This, this, this, right here. Okay, so we're gonna have a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:We're gonna teach you guys. Hopefully you'll learn something and we will make sure that this is worthwhile enterprise okay, so both of you guys are highly, highly educated and You're the leaders in your field. Scott's a PhD. Mike just got National Salesman of the Year Congratulations. I talked to mom and dad before coming on here and they clearly said I was their favorite.
Speaker 3:Our mom and dad.
Speaker 1:They clearly said I was the favorite. But they said who do you think is your second favorite? Now, who do you think? They said Was mom drunk? Was she drinking? Do you have to ask that question? Is your second favorite? Now, who do you think? They said Was mom drunk. Was she drinking? Do you have to ask that question?
Speaker 3:She definitely was drunk. I know the answer but, I, think it would offend someone. What do you think, scott, what do?
Speaker 1:I think about what it is, I said who do you think mom and dad said was their favorite?
Speaker 3:I think mom said I love you all equally.
Speaker 1:I think dad didn't understand that, didn't hear and mom said that exactly same. Okay, good answer, okay. Next question, as we start to learn about our guest today, is what is your superpower?
Speaker 2:go, why am?
Speaker 1:I first, because I pointed to you first.
Speaker 3:Okay, that's a good point, I get it a good point superpower, I am able to discern when something is wrong with people, even when they're trying to pretend like there is so good intuition yes, okay.
Speaker 1:What's your superpower?
Speaker 3:you have to do this when you talk I don't stab my salad when I eat it, like you. What is your superpower? I scoop it up and eat it. You stab your salad.
Speaker 1:Like it has to be killed. Lettuce isn't going anywhere. Lettuce continues, yes.
Speaker 2:Mike, what is your superpower?
Speaker 1:I think your superpower is the ability to get people to do things they don't want to do, because you're sales. You just did, you just answered my question, perfect, perfect.
Speaker 2:I think your superpower is the ability to get people to do things they don't want to do, because you're sales. You just did. You just answered my question Perfect, Perfect.
Speaker 1:Okay, Now to get to the real question. I wanted something more fun is if you could have any superpower, what would you have?
Speaker 3:Mike first.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I'd love to be able to be stretch on. You want to be stretchy, elastic, yeah, elastic.
Speaker 1:I understand that because I know what it's like to be tall. You don't Scott what's your superpower you would like to be.
Speaker 3:Well now, you made me think, because tall sounds good. I've only ever been vertically challenged. Yes, no, I think I would want to be able to predict the future. That's a good superpower. That's a good superpower, and that way I can anticipate the questions that you guys pose, that are ridiculous, and have an answer for them ready to go, if you have that superpower and you're an audience member out there.
Speaker 2:Hello to you all. Thank you for being here.
Speaker 1:All three people you're saying hi to right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, there's three of us here, so at least three. No, I've been on TV If you could have the power to see the future. How is this going to be received? Positively or negatively?
Speaker 3:Assuming they edit you out, his likes are going to go cha-ching. They're going cha-ching, so you make it six.
Speaker 1:I'm hoping to break double digits. That would be impressive. Double digits is what I want. Okay, so first we're going to talk about educators. So teachers in Texas. Our mom's a teacher, scott's a teacher. He's got decades of experience and we grew up going to public schools. We went to Clark, we went to Hobby, went to Adams Hill.
Speaker 3:I played football at Hobby and Clark you played football at Hobby and Clark.
Speaker 1:That has been verified. We did have verification of that.
Speaker 3:Well, I was on the team, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:I'll picture it for you too. It was a clean jersey.
Speaker 1:Yes, Whoever is closer is going to win. How many teachers are in the state of Texas Within two? Within two, see, sorry, I got to get rid of that.
Speaker 3:How many?
Speaker 1:teachers Are in the state of Texas, am I?
Speaker 3:supposed to be talking as loud as you. I'm just talking into my mic, all right. I'm just checking how many teachers are there in the state of Texas. Yes, not enough. We are in the middle of a teacher shortage.
Speaker 1:You're correct, but how many? Just take a guess, really just a fun game Really.
Speaker 2:Just an answer there's 60,000.
Speaker 1:60,000 in Texas. What do you think?
Speaker 3:That's a bad number. I'd rather come in under than over. Yeah, so now the pressure's on you.
Speaker 2:No, I would say 90,000.
Speaker 1:In Texas. There's about 390,000 teachers.
Speaker 3:See, I said 390,000, but the 300 part got cut off.
Speaker 1:What percentage is female versus male?
Speaker 2:I'm going 72. What do you think? Female.
Speaker 3:I would say 87.
Speaker 1:It's about 75. Okay, so what percentage do you think have back pain?
Speaker 3:What is 40% of 300? I'm not asking for a number, what?
Speaker 1:percentage.
Speaker 2:It's not a hard game. It's pretty simple 70%.
Speaker 1:It's not that much. What do you think? Let's say 42%. It's about 63%, okay, about 63%. Of teachers have low back pain. Wow.
Speaker 2:And what's the main cause of low back pain in the work-related industry?
Speaker 1:Leaning over on your computer Wrong, what do you think? Send dirty laptop, both of you guys are right.
Speaker 3:Ding ding, ding, ding ding, I get a full point here.
Speaker 1:It's about ergonomics.
Speaker 3:Ergonomics.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, many teachers are standing or sitting a long time, and that itself causes low back pain. It's not doing a bunch of heavy lifting, it's not exercising too much, it's not leaning over your computer. It's ergonomic factors. A lot of teachers have to do that to get their work done. There is a shortage of teachers, which is really a travesty because teachers are investing in our future. What are the biggest problems you see with teaching right now?
Speaker 3:Back pain-wise.
Speaker 1:No, just biggest problems.
Speaker 2:Generally speaking yeah.
Speaker 3:In addition to the teacher shortage. Yep, we're having quite a few teachers become teachers after they go through alternative certification, which means that they don't student teach, and I'm not really sure about the quality of the education program. Okay, that's two. And then three is there seems to be a propensity or a tendency for people to want to teach all the kids in the exact same way, in the exact same manner, regardless of how the students learn. Different students learn different ways Differentiation.
Speaker 1:So let me consolidate your answers. So, work-related stress absolutely. Poor teacher quality or not optimal education absolutely is a concern. Health-related mental problems, not only for the teachers but the students yes. Low pay yes, I understand that it's a significant problem for teachers to be at work and at their utmost health, and then, consequently, there's downstream effects where the education suffers. Correct, right, okay. So how are we going to fix these problems to make sure we can optimize teachers health?
Speaker 3:well, based on what I've learned so far having worked with you, dr moran is I've learned you can just call me mark. Okay, I mean whatever, alan, do you?
Speaker 1:have you met me? I'll call you out middle name a-l-a-n. You can call me whatever you want to call me.
Speaker 3:Alan's his middle name A-L-A-N. You can call me whatever you want to call me, all right. So Alan has taught me. I have been in a lot of. I've experienced a lot of stress in the job. It's a very stressful job. Most people don't realize that until, like there's an outbreak of a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic and then they appreciate you for until the pandemic's over.
Speaker 1:Well, let me ask you a question on that point. How many hours a week do most teachers work? It's not 40. What is it? 70 or 80? It's about 54. It's about 54. On average, it's 54. And what percentage of time of teachers work is spent in the school?
Speaker 3:the vast majority. It's about 46 percent. Well, that's close to the joy.
Speaker 1:It's like half so the point is a lot of time teachers are working outside of school that people don't appreciate exactly exactly, okay, thank you, appreciate that right yeah, so a lot of times teachers do a bunch of work at home where they're grading papers or reviewing lesson plans or talking to parents or whatever, so a significant amount of work is done where they're grading papers or reviewing lesson plans or talking to parents or whatever. So a significant amount of work is done outside the school. It's not just including weekends so what is someone?
Speaker 1:what is your opinion about one ways we could empower teachers to help them optimize their health so that, consequently, they could project efficient teaching to their students this is what I was getting at earlier, before I was cut off I was totally interrupting you. Yes, sorry about that, so let me go ahead and backtrack.
Speaker 3:What I was going to say is I started working with dr moran mark alan, whatever you want to call him and he taught me yoga and dietary changes and things of that nature and I've lost 30 pounds and but you've done a good job of exercising too.
Speaker 1:You're exercising a lot more.
Speaker 3:Yes, I'm making that a priority. So that's good. I didn't used to make that a priority, because there's always something to grade, and I've also noticed that my neck pain, my back pain, my hip pain's gone.
Speaker 1:So what I'm hearing you say is you've become an active participant in your health, yes, okay. What do flight attendants tell you when you're on the flight and you're about to take off with oxygen?
Speaker 2:They say please put on the mask yourself before you help your child.
Speaker 3:And why do they do that?
Speaker 2:Because if something starts going really badly and your first instinct is to take care of your child or kid, right, you can't do that if you don't have oxygen and you're not secure, calm place. So if you put it on yourself and you're receiving oxygen and now you're protected and safe, you can there pass on the same.
Speaker 3:I think you didn't put it on right. You have to pull the tabs, that's right.
Speaker 1:So essentially, what we're saying is you have to take care of yourself first so you can help others, and teachers a lot of times don't do that. A lot of times they put their students first, or their classroom first, or their lesson plans first, or their parents first. They do all kinds of other things to take care of other things besides themselves and consequently they're not optimized for teaching.
Speaker 3:I 100% agree with that and I lived that life all the way through earning my PhD. And I lived that life all the way through earning my PhD. So then I was going to work, prioritizing the kids coming straight home, sitting over a computer for three, four hours a night and prioritizing that, and there was no exercise for a span of three years, I remember and I put on weight and my pains that I mentioned earlier were a major issue.
Speaker 2:So you have to be an active participant instead of a passive recipient. He already said that.
Speaker 3:He said that 10 times, I don't need you to repeat it. I learned that from him.
Speaker 2:So when did you become intentional? What was the aha moment for you, after you just described what was going on for three years, that you said, hey, I'm going to go to yoga class with Marco. What was the aha moment that became the intentionality for you to change your life and be proactive?
Speaker 1:Is intentionality a word? It is now.
Speaker 3:Isn't it? Okay, I remember I don't know how long ago it was, I guess it was two summers ago I just remember thinking well, I happened to walk by my graduation picture when I got my PhD and my face was all swollen and everything else, and it still was because I wasn't living a healthy lifestyle. So I just made a conscious decision to start walking. I started with walking two miles, four miles, six miles, eight miles, 10 miles, and then I noticed I was feeling better, more awake more able to handle stress.
Speaker 3:And then I started going back to the gym. I hadn't been since COVID and I liked it a lot. And then I started doing yoga and it just continued from there.
Speaker 1:So if you could go back and tell 35-year-old Scott.
Speaker 2:This 35-year-old's got a hair. He did.
Speaker 3:That was only five years ago.
Speaker 1:If you could go back, what would be the number one priority you could change to prevent all these problems?
Speaker 3:these problems. I would say eat healthy and take care of yourself and exercise and make yourself a priority, because I've never done that well until recently. I've always put everybody else first.
Speaker 1:You're exactly right. That is. The main lesson here is that we have to try and get people to empower themselves so that they don't get to the point not to be disrespectful where you were and then you had to use all these years where you weren't being healthy and suffering with pain and consequences of not being healthy and then, consequently, it drags out. So I agree with you If you could go back and tell yourself what the priority is, it's be an active participant in your health. Eat healthy, exercise, Take care of yourself, Do yoga.
Speaker 1:Like you said it's very important, and all these little things will help maximize your health, consequently minimize your health care expenses, because a lot of teachers don't make a lot of money, so they a lot of times erroneously think they should not spend money on health, but then they spend money on all these expenses that come with poor health. A lot of times teachers need to realize they should invest even minimal amounts of money, like shoes or not buying so much food or resistance bands or something where they can just start walking and being healthy and that, in turn, will give them a return that they want.
Speaker 3:Make sure you buy the right size shoes, because I had the wrong size shoes for two years, didn't understand why I had foot pain and then realized they were too small.
Speaker 2:I would add that I think that's really good stuff. I would add that first of all to you and all the teachers out there, thank you for what you do. Your selfless job is certainly under noticed and certainly certainly underpaid, and so we appreciate all what you do. I would tell you that um I would add, to be truly um intentional, I thought about writing a book one time did I say all this? No, I want to label it live tensional, because if the word intentional is inside, which is not to do that.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm still thinking about it. Okay, I might do it, yeah, so you can't.
Speaker 1:It's not a British title, live Tensional. Is that title copyrighted? Not yet Okay. Well, it's on video right now.
Speaker 3:It's my show. I'm going to go home right now. I'm going to patent that it's my show.
Speaker 2:It's good. Live T intentional living, because live intentional is one word, it's more, it's all about brainy, okay, but anyway. And so live sensual. But take let's call it teacher time. Right, and maybe take teacher time for yourself. Yeah, even if it's getting up an hour early or 30 minutes early and go walk down the block one time. Take teacher time like no, it's not about the four kids I've got to wake up and make breakfast for. It's not about the four kids I've got to wake up and make breakfast for. It's not about the extra grades that I have to grade. I'm going to take teacher time for myself and I'm going to be intentional. I'm going to live intentional in that moment.
Speaker 1:Put oxygen on yourself first so you can take care of others.
Speaker 3:I agree with that. Again, you've got to pull the straps.
Speaker 1:I agree with that.
Speaker 3:What percentage of teachers are seriously considering leaving teaching? Oof Now, oof. Well, if you mean based on what you've read on the internet versus reality, I would say based on the internet, it's probably 60%.
Speaker 2:In reality it's probably 70%. I was going to say 65, 70.
Speaker 1:70%. So about 70 out of 7 out of 10 patients Teachers really are seriously considered leaving. And what is that going to do to the quality of education of our kids? So, as we look to try and solve these problems, it is well known, it's well proven, that your health is your wealth and personal happiness is tied to your health. If we could get teachers to invest in themselves just a little bit like Mike said, 5, 10, 15 minutes teacher time a day there would be a snowball effect of becoming healthier. Consequently, personal happiness would be raised and then there probably would be less likely for them to leave their job.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right now we have a quiet room where you can go and sit. There's no exercise equipment in there, it's just to shut the door and tune everyone out, and I don't know that that's healthy.
Speaker 2:I love seeing office buildings, things like that, where during the lunch hour you just see people taking a 10-minute walk. It's better than nothing. Fresh air, that's great.
Speaker 3:We do laps around the campus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, share, that's great. Um, do laps around the campus. Yeah, you, you could there. There really is no excuse, uh, to not doing it. Um, we all have hard days, but there's there's no excuse. Even when I'm tired, don't want to go to the gym, or whatever, I'll just go walk.
Speaker 1:what percentage of those teachers are going to miss 10 work days every year just from low back pain?
Speaker 3:Well, we're only giving eight days off a year, just take a guess Percentage 18.
Speaker 1:What do you think?
Speaker 2:18 percent. 10 days is a lot, so they're lying right. I mean, obviously they don't have that much PTO. So that's my point.
Speaker 1:No, we just said teachers are out of shape.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:They don't have that much strained. Don't get beat, aren't exercising, they're not going to work.
Speaker 2:So, 18% of them is going to impact.
Speaker 1:You know what Both of you guys' answers are going to be right. I just need an answer.
Speaker 3:I would say 40%.
Speaker 1:It's about 15%.
Speaker 3:See, it's 15%. 15% of every workforce in the country, whether it's teachers, whether it's people working. I said 18. Whether it's teachers, whether it's people, working.
Speaker 1:You said people in Northside. I said every workforce in the country. About 15% of them will miss 10 work days a year from low back pain. Northside has 20,000 teachers.
Speaker 3:So 15% of 20,000 is what? 15% of 20,000? Is what I wasn't told there'd be math. I'm an English teacher.
Speaker 1:What's 10% of 20,000? Well, 10% of 20,000 is 2,000.
Speaker 3:Plus another 500-ish Plus another 1,000.
Speaker 2:Everybody. He's an Aggie. That didn't go too well for him. He's an English teacher 3,000.
Speaker 1:It's about 3,000 workers. Maybe Okay, no, that's the statistics Are missing work for 10 days. So you multiply 3,000 times 10. That's 30,000. 30,000 work days per year lost because of a bike.
Speaker 3:Wait, I'm confused. There's only 365 days in a year, so how can there be 30,000?
Speaker 1:It's all the teachers, but there's only 365 days.
Speaker 2:Listen to what I'm saying. You're not listening. I am listening, I'm joking.
Speaker 1:You're not listening. Listen to what I'm saying. You're not listening. I am listening. I'm joking, I'm not stupid. There's about 30,000 lost work days a year in Northside Because of the movement Equivalent to.
Speaker 3:So then they have to get substitutes, yes or they have to get people teachers pulled from different rooms.
Speaker 1:Yes, or they have to do other things that minimize the optimization of education. And essentially anybody with a pulse can be a sub, and they don't often do anything that you leave for them. Well, I'm sure there's lots of good subs out there. We're gonna make sure we're nice.
Speaker 1:Okay, there's lots of good subs out there there's some good subs out there, but there are also some that don't necessarily follow through with the lesson well, there's lots of good subs out there, but, just like subs are, they haven't been trained, they're not used to the system, so of course they're not going to be as efficient as a teacher. Firehouse subs is really good firehouse, but the point is again to reiterate it's very important for teachers to learn the lesson you learned after 20 years to invest in themselves, to be healthy and active and exercise, do yoga, eat healthy so they can prevent the problems that are coming, and it is not hard to see that these will occur. Okay, and usually it's more women than men that have low back pain.
Speaker 3:Is there a reason why we're focusing on teachers? Is it just because I'm here, because I'm concerned about rodeo cowboys? We're talking about teachers. They must have a lot of back pain.
Speaker 1:They definitely have a lot of back pain. I have lots of road. I'm very concerned about that. So you're right, we should talk about other things, which is why we're talking about low back pain in general and that's why we have Mike here. There's lots of different ways to treat back pain. One of the ways I recommend is go to one month mdcom. There's lots of education there about learning the causes and treatments and prevention of low back pain, which I highly recommend everyone do because it empowers them. Other things would be medicines, therapies, injections or surgery.
Speaker 1:Gummies I take care of medicines, I take care of injections, I take care of therapy, but I refer out for surgeries.
Speaker 3:That's true. You have injected me in the butt before. It helps my pain a lot.
Speaker 1:I'm glad that you got benefit. What percentage of Americans do you think will have back pain?
Speaker 1:Will have back pain 60% and you said 40? It's about 80. About 80% of Americans are going to have back pain at some point in their life. Man, okay, now a lot of times people have back pain. They try things at home, then they go to a doctor. They get an MRI. Of times people have back pain. They try things at home, then they go to a doctor, they get an mri. What percentage of americans will have pathology like herniated or bulging discs on an mri with no symptoms?
Speaker 2:80. No, it's probably, it's not. It's not the same. I mean he's just taking a guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was gonna say 60 it's about 35 okay so A lot of times patients will go get an MRI and the MRI will show bulging discs with no symptoms. So consequently, we don't end up treating those patients because they don't have symptoms. You don't treat the picture, you treat the patient On the other hand a lot of times patients will come in and they have really bad symptoms. We treat them with medicines or therapy first, because the image might not be right, right, okay.
Speaker 1:So of the patients that do have significant symptomatic herniations or bulging discs, we try medicines, we try injections and one of the things we try to prevent is re-herniations of discs. For patients that do have symptomatic herniations and we do injections and their symptoms get better, what percentage re-herniate? Very?
Speaker 3:high.
Speaker 2:The data shows 5 to 15%.
Speaker 1:That's right, it's about 10%. This is Mike's field. This is Mike's field of expertise. I know this, he knows this and Mike was so nice Well. I wasn't giving any notes or anything. He brought some visual aids. So can you explain bulging discs to us and then we'll kind of transition into barricade.
Speaker 2:This is a part of your spine segment. So these are the spinous process, those little bumps that go down to your back. This is your spine, looking at it from the back. Now, if I turn it to the side I would be turning sideways. This is one of the vertebral bodies and in the middle of that of each two vertebral bodies is the disc. The disc is a circular function and it's outside annulus that has a bunch of jelly stuff in the middle. Okay, when a disc occurs and this allows the loading of the spine, as we stand up, we bend forward, we bend back. So disc herniation, this yellow thing is the spinal cord. A disc herniation occurs when the annulus, the outer covering of the disc, gets really weak and as the loading occurs, part of the inner part of the disc, the nucleus, can squirt out or be contained and put a bulge on the yellow thing which is the nerve, which causes pain going down the butt and the back of the leg and the classic example of that is donuts jelly donuts, we tell our patients.
Speaker 1:Disc bulges are just like jelly donuts. When you bite a jelly donut it squirts out backwards. It's the same thing with these. If you put pressure on the front, it's going to squirt out backwards. That's a disc bulge. It's just like biting a jelly donut and that disc bulge will put pressure on the nerve and then you will have pain down the nerve. Does that actually squirt out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a disc bulge, or it can be a contained fragment. It can be a sequestered fragment, meaning it goes out. I know what sequestered fragment meaning it goes out, I know it sequestered me.
Speaker 3:Okay, that's I know, you know what so that is a disc bulge.
Speaker 2:So the bulge can be contained. Just putting pressure on the nerve it can actually separate and go back out and they'll have to go disc it out, fish it out. But that pushed pressure on the nerves causing pain symptoms. Uh, they'll get an mri. If dr moran, if the conservative therapy doesn't work, injections, whatever he may refer to a surgeon for a discectomy. Ectomy means removal of Thank you, discectomy, removal of that. So the surgeon would go in, take out the bad part of the disc, the jelly part, the jelly part, to remove it, decompressing or taking the pressure off of the nerve so the pain goes away, the pain goes away, but you still have no little bag in between your….
Speaker 3:Very good, that's good. The light part.
Speaker 1:Well, it's still there, it's just not as much.
Speaker 3:Not as much right.
Speaker 1:Imagine taking some of the jelly away from the donut.
Speaker 3:There's still some jelly in there, right. You're just taking the piece off that came out, but you have less of a cushion from that point on you do, and that outer circular part of the donut.
Speaker 2:now there's a hole there right, Because they had to remove the donut. You're leaving a hole there, right, Depending on the size of the hole. The data shows that that re-herniation rate, now that that bad disc has been taken out, there is a hole there.
Speaker 3:That re-herniation rate is 15, 20, 25 percent different data and I would guess that that would also lead to other injuries, because you're compensating for it could.
Speaker 2:So not only removing discs. The problem that the surgeons have had for eight years that they've been doing disectomies is a lot of times they'll go in and do a disectomy and they'll take a lot of the disc out, the native tissue out, so that it doesn't squeeze back out the hole that's there and left to re-herniate and cause the symptoms again. So they take a lot of it out so it doesn't re-herniate right. So they have to be a little more aggressive than they typically want to be and nobody wants that. Nobody wants that because that healthy tissue and people our age 40, 50, 60, 70 year olds, 20olds they have healthy discs. They don't want to hopefully have a diffusion down the road. So a device was developed by a guy, greg Lambrecht, his mom re-herniated L4-5 and L5-1. A few months later re-herniated this was his mom re-herniated Through the same levels, became addicted to opioids, had to have a three-level fusion and it was awful. So he came up with a better idea In his garage, mit trained.
Speaker 1:There's nothing wrong with coming up with a good idea to help your mom.
Speaker 2:That's right, we love moms. We love moms. Who do you think mom loves the most? Huh?
Speaker 1:I'm going to say You're wrong they stopped having kids after me.
Speaker 2:I asked her this what is the percentage of love that she has for me versus you guys?
Speaker 3:No, in actuality, as the firstborn, it's fair to say that I was most wanted, and then you guys were a surprise.
Speaker 1:She has called me an accident. She said you're an accident when you were a surprise.
Speaker 2:Firstborn? Have you heard of the saying that goes if at first you don't succeed, Try, try again. Oh, that's right.
Speaker 3:Try, try. That's your real laugh, right? It's like a sound effect laugh. Okay.
Speaker 2:Seriously, yeah, like a ringtone laugh. It's a really good laugh.
Speaker 1:Can we at least agree that it was Mike, because if it was first it was you, if it was last it was me.
Speaker 3:It definitely wasn't Mike, yeah, you're in the middle You're the jelly Like, if you were the best, why would she have me? You're the jelly. Well, she had us together. You're the jelly, you're herniated. I don't really know that analogy, but you have someone who had a herniation.
Speaker 1:They had pain, they had a re-herniation, they got addicted to opioids or narcotics Narcotics are bad for you. And so the son said I'm going to do something to help not only my mom, but to help society.
Speaker 2:That's right. So he came up with a product and a company called Intrinsic Therapeutics and the product's called Barricade.
Speaker 3:And it does. You say he's trained at MIT. Yeah, so he's not a doctor. No, how did he learn how to do this? He's an inventor. He's an engineer. He's an engineer.
Speaker 2:Okay, so he came up with a little device that actually goes into one of the bones, into the bone, so it's bone anchored, it's not going to go in there. And it kind of goes in to the disc part and opens up like a catcher's mitt. So now it's occluding or closing that hole from within so the disc can't re-herniate through that hole Like a balloon, Just like that. So it looks like a catcher's mitt, so now the disc can't get back out. This is the disc, so it now can't go back out that same hole that was there. And the data shows that with a barricade in you, you are 80. It prevents re-operation or re-herniation by 81 percent. Um. It's. This has been around. Fda approved in 2020. Um. I think there's 11 12 000 patients that have been done so far great results, and it certainly is one option if the conservative therapy doesn't work.
Speaker 1:Okay, good good and how long does this surgery take? Is it painful? Does it take like months to recover? What's the prognosis?
Speaker 2:So a normal disectomy without barricade is going to take about 45 minutes to an hour. Small incisions some surgeons will use a little tube they look through. Some people use a little mini open With a barricade. Usually average an additional five to seven minutes of time. Pretty simple in procedure. These are all neurosurgeons, orthopedic spine surgeons that do this. They're trained. They've all done several, several, several thousand. Can you get that into somebody's back?
Speaker 3:laparoscopically.
Speaker 2:Not yet. Great question, but not right yet, not yet. They're working on that. They're working on that Good question. Yeah, that's a good question, great job?
Speaker 1:Yeah, appreciate it. And what's the? Not just the pretty things. What's the recovery?
Speaker 2:time. So the recovery time is the exact same with the disectomy. There is no added recovery time with the barricade.
Speaker 1:So it's not overnight.
Speaker 2:Not overnight, so it's outpatient.
Speaker 1:Outpatient, and then they have limited activity for a week.
Speaker 2:Surgeons' cadence of the way they give a post-op care will say with a normal disectomy will say no BLTs, no bending, lifting, twisting for six weeks. We're seeing surgeons around the country that are limiting that, lowering that to maybe three or four weeks. Some surgeons are going hey, I want you healthy right away the very next day. Some doctors are keeping the six weeks. It's all dependent on their experience experience. Some of the more experienced surgeons in texas, san antonio and austin around the country have really tried to back to your original thought of getting up, getting mobile and working and causing a cardiovascular, cardiovascular relief to blood flow supply to start healing. I've really encouraged the patients to get equipment.
Speaker 1:Okay, good. So what are the main risk factors? Are there, or what's your incidence, of complications with this surgery?
Speaker 2:So our level, one data shows of the Level one data.
Speaker 1:What does that mean? Well, it's a certain type of study, in the way it's produced, like the highest level of research.
Speaker 2:It's the highest level of qualified research that can be done for a company and that data shows that the incident rate is less than 2%. Typically it's really 1.4%, something like that, but it's less than 2%. Very, very safe procedure, as in any other procedure that you do a fusion or things like that. Really, the exclusion criteria is just a patient that's morbidly obese. If their bones can't handle an implant or a device, then it probably wouldn't be recommended. Or if they have osteopenia or parotid and their bones' quality is not good to be able to handle.
Speaker 2:Osteopenia meaning weak bones, weak bone or osteoporosis meaning weak bones.
Speaker 1:And your 1.47. Whatever ratio, complication is minor complications. What is your risk factors for significant complications? Do you know percentage for that? It's less than 2%. It's got to be way less than 1.4%.
Speaker 2:It's way less. I want to say it's 0.03%, but don't quote me on that. I'd have to get that to you. We'll edit that out.
Speaker 1:Which comes to my point for the patients to know is don't confuse possibility with probability. Certainly it's possible that you have a complication with any surgery, even procedures, but don't confuse the probability of something that's very, very low likelihood to have a minor complication at 1.4, much less a significant complication of 0.03. That's why you go and talk to your surgeon so they can explain this and answer your questions and see if you're a good candidate for this procedure the barricade block to prevent reherniations. You're a good candidate for this procedure the barricade block to prevent re-herniations. You're a lot smarter than you look. I'm impressed. I think you're just as smart as you look.
Speaker 2:That's a good one, Dr Moran. Who do you think mom thinks is smart? He thought it was a compliment.
Speaker 3:You wouldn't understand. I'm sorry. You look great for 75. Just for me, I'm sorry. You look great for 75.
Speaker 1:Just for me. There you go. All right, did you guys?
Speaker 3:have something to tell all our viewers about what you kind of want to know about teaching and what they can do to help support teachers and help the kids optimize their education. So statistically this may sound a little unbelievable, but 60% of fourth graders in this country are not reading on grade level 60%, and in Texas it's 52%. Then when you factor in the economically disadvantaged population it goes up to 62%, if there's any. And I understand we're in a situation where most of the time both parents work and people are struggling to get by. If there's anything that data and research shows can help your kids the most, it's for them to read, it's for them to practice reading with you, and if that means various types of programs phonics, what have you so be it. If they don't have on grade level skills reading wise by the time they're in third grade, the chances of them ending up in jail or having a life of poverty are 70%. The state of Texas actually projects building jails based on third grade star scores.
Speaker 1:I didn't know that Interesting. So clearly we need to make sure that our parents are being active participants with their kids' education, so reading 15 minutes a night or 20 minutes a night, or actually involve them in making sure that they're talking to them.
Speaker 3:Take the phone out of their hands and have them read.
Speaker 1:So reading is very important because if you can read, you can read to do anything. So you got to learn how to read. So very good message. To do anything, so you got to learn how to read. So very good message. And what did you have to say to our viewers about things they can do to help understand, or what are some common questions that you get where patients say, well, I don't want to do this or this. What would you tell them if you had an opportunity to speak to all of them?
Speaker 2:I would personally say and thanks again for having us, Dr Moran I would say personally, I would personally say I don't want anybody out there to have a barricade. I don't want you to have a herniation, and that's something that you totally can control yourself. Right, it gets back to what we were talking about with low back pain and being an active participant instead of passive recipient. It gets back to talking about sedentary lifestyle. It gets back to talking about sitting at a desk, sitting at home, sitting on the couch, when you're there for three hours watching TV. I don't want you to have to have a barricade. I don't, and you can control that right. Control your controllables. We all have options. We can live tensional with the way we choose to do. Good plug for your book.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that Good plug, right? Take the teacher time for yourself, right? You don't want one of these, you don't want procedures, you don't want back pain and if you have it you can help that. You can help it. Now. We've got N of one right here, looking right Back pain, a little overweight. He had an aha moment and he's changed his life and we're so proud of him for it, right? So take control of your life. Take some teacher time. You deserve it because your family deserves it.
Speaker 1:I have two more questions for you guys and I think I'm pretty sure you guys will get them, but we're going to find out, all right, who said this, quote Where's the Churchill, the battle is won. Before stepping foot on the battlefield Douglas MacArthur.
Speaker 3:Sun Tzu, sun Tzu, sun Tzu. Lincoln Sun Tzu, sun Tzu, sun Tzu. I like it, sun Tzu. Tzu, I couldn't pronounce it Sun Tzu, I'll give you that one, sun Tzu, well known for being a great warrior, a great leader of men, many, many centuries ago, and he wrote a book called the Art of War, and in the art of war that's one of the things he said. But it's not really just about war, it's about life, right correct.
Speaker 1:So sun tzu was a chinese philosopher who lived around 500 bc, so 3 000 years ago. He sure he wasn't a warrior. He was a warrior and a general and a military strategist. But he wrote this book, the art of war, which is still used today, because the principles he put in it 3 000 years ago are still very applicable today, one of which being the battle is won before stepping foot on the battlefield. Next quote who said this if you fail to prepare, prepare to fail.
Speaker 3:I'm, I'm going to go with Lee Iacocca. That is incorrect, okay. That is totally out of your box.
Speaker 1:Well, I thought it was a good guess.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:Out to prepare, prepare to fail. I'm going to go. I want to say Winston Churchill.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go. Is it a president? It is no, it wasn't a president, oh, okay.
Speaker 1:He was a famous statesman. You're leaning?
Speaker 2:towards that, aren't you? Yeah, totally, I'm going to go with Bill Russell.
Speaker 1:It was Ben Franklin. I was close, ben Franklin, I knew it was a B.
Speaker 3:It was coming to me.
Speaker 1:Ben Franklin said. One of my favorite quotes of all time is if you are failing to prepare you are preparing you are preparing to fail.
Speaker 1:So think about that. We've talked about this for an hour now. We are telling people what is going to happen if they don't invest in their kids education. I have one if they don't invest in their own health, if they don't take care of back pain. We are telling them right now if you fail to prepare, you are preparing to fail and you're going to need this information. Live tensionally, Live tensionally.
Speaker 3:Right, Since I keep bringing up Winston Churchill. Winston Churchill said those who never change their minds never change anything, which also applies in this situation.
Speaker 1:Right, never change anything, which also applies in this situation, right? So we are trying to help our community, our society, our friends and family to be healthy, happy people, and that's going to take some investment. Have you guys ever improved anything without investing time? Nope, no, no. If you want to improve something, you have to invest time. So, viewers, we appreciate you, we love you, we want you to be happy and healthy and productive and prevent these problems. So invest some time in yourself, take the oxygen, put it on yourself so you can help others, and we hope you enjoyed the show. Please call with any questions or email me. We are happy to help out.
