Danielle Allen on The Shift From Indie to Traditional Book Deals

Does the romance industry still fear fat Black women on book covers? USA Today Bestselling author Danielle Allen joins the podcast to discuss her transition from a prolific indie career to traditional publishing with Bramble. She explains why her stories center fat Black joy rather than the struggle of a body type. We examine how her background as a life coach helps her characters move from mere existence to a life of reclamation and confidence.

Danielle Allen is a USA Today bestselling author, a professor, and a life coach. Living authentically has been the key to her living her best life. With a background in social sciences, helping people better understand themselves so they can become the best version of themselves is one of her passions. She aims to write contemporary romance novels that change the status quo of the genre.

Key Takeaways

• Danielle details the shift from independent deadlines to the rigid schedules of traditional publishing houses.
• The Curve Series flips the script on how the industry portrays plus-size Black women.
• Life coach skills assist her character development and help her weave lessons into every plot.
• She revives the work of Edgar Allan Poe through modern, spicy retellings.
• Pre-orders signal to bookstores that readers demand diverse and representative covers.

CONNECT WITH DANIELLE ALLEN:

Website

Instagram

Amazon

Tour Dates 2026

BOOKS/AUTHORS MENTIONED:

Curve Series Amazon

Work Song Amazon

Essense Post

Black Bookstore Finder

InstaLove Amazon

Continuum Amazon

The Cask Amazon

Tell-Tale Amazon

Nevermore Amazon

Annabelle and Lee Amazon

Running list of books mentioned (Doc)

Transcript

Alesia Galati 0:00

Plus size women deserve to have their stories told. And who better to share them than Danielle Allen? Today, we're joined by USA Today best-selling author and the author of over 55 books, as she shares the reality of being a hybrid author. We also discuss how she helps her characters face those internal blocks that prevent them from true love and true acceptance of who they are and being able to accept the love that they deserve. Before we get into it, I do want to encourage you to pre-order her brand new book, Big Girl Blitz. It is available for pre-order at most bookstores, and we'll also have a link in the show notes and the YouTube description to make sure that you have the best ways to grab those. Listener discretion is advised. This podcast contains mature content intended for adult audiences only. Hello, Danielle. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. If you could start by telling everyone who you are, I mean, they should already know who you are, but who you are, and get into your author journey. What kind of led you to this journey of becoming an author?

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Well, first, thank you so much for having me. I am Danielle Allen. I have been writing, I've been writing romance since 2013. So it's been, it'll be 13 years in July. I have written 55 fiction novels and or novellas, and three, actually, no, take that back. I've written 53 fiction and three nonfiction stories. And it really started with I had a list of 30 things I wanted to do before I turned 30. And I probably got 10 out the way, but my number one thing was to write a book. Like that had always been my goal, that had always been something I wanted to do. And so I did it. And I fell in love with that story, with that journey, with those characters, and then the act of writing and creating. So then I wrote another one. And I was doing that while I had a full-time job. And then I started writing full-time in 2016. And then my first traditional novel was Curvy Girl Summer, and that came out in 2014. And it has been a like a long, beautiful journey. It's been 13 years, and I have encountered some of the best people. I've been able to live out not only my dream, but also be able to touch people in a way that I wouldn't have been able to do just in my hometown, like one-on-one. So being able to put these life lessons in these stories and then have people be able to like receive it from wherever they are in the world is like everything to me.

Alesia Galati 3:09

Oh, I love that. I can imagine. So you went from indie publishing to traditional publishing. So what would you say is like the biggest transition going from indie, like the changes of going from more indie to traditional publishing?

SPEAKER_01 3:27

The main difference is like there's I had deadlines, but I set those deadlines. And if if something came up and they needed to be adjusted, I could do that because I was the final say. I was the one who determined when it was being released, all of that. So it is completely different with Trad because I am not the final say. Like the deadlines are set, and I do my best to adhere to them.

Alesia Galati 3:58

Yeah. Oh my goodness, I can imagine. A lot of your books focus on curvy women. Like, of course, you have Curvy Girl Summer, which I'm gonna hold up for everybody. Everybody go ahead and oh my God, gorgeous. Smiley. Thank you, Keo.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Absolutely gorgeous. Keo did such a great job with the covers. Like love what she did with those.

Alesia Galati 4:19

You have plus size player. And then what is the next one? Something blitz. Big girl blitz. Big girl blitz. To go into trad with curvy black women, first of all, all hail the queen. Like incredible. But, and I should say, what was that pushback like? Because we don't see a lot of traditionally published curvy women and a lot of traditionally published curvy black women on the covers of these books. And they could have gone with the, you know, oh, you don't really know who this cover this couple is, without an illustrated cover, you know, to kind of make up for it. That all the things that publishing likes to do or tell us what we want or don't want. So what was kind of like your, I'm standing my ground, this is what I'm doing. And like also pitching that idea to publishers, was it hard, or because you already had that backlog that had been selling, you could clearly say, here is the data.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

So I knew that my first traditional like offering was going to be fat black women being loved like the way we deserve. So that was just always what it was gonna be. That was always what the stories were gonna be. And I feel so fortunate and so blessed to be with Bramble because there was no pushback. There was, or if there, if there was pushback on like the higher level, like on like the McMillan level, I never heard about it, which means that Bramble had my back. Like they saw the vision. Like I told them what the story was gonna be about. I told them that these are three fat black women, their stories are gonna be different. They go in order. I can't emphasize that enough because I keep seeing people saying, like, you know, oh, you could read Big Girl Blitz as a standalone if you want. And it's like, no, you can't. Don't. That's not how it was intended. Don't do that. But like, it was always intended that Aliyah's story was going to be more of a rom-com, um, and Nina's story was gonna be sexier, and then Jazz's story was going to be more heartfelt, a little more somber. They were all gonna have like humor and sex, but those were the tones of each of the books, and they were like, as a big body uh beauty, like they were going to encounter the shenanigans that can come with that, but their story isn't centered around them being fat women, fat black women, fat black women with natural hair. The story is about them being in love. They just also happen to be fat, just like they happen to be beautiful and happen to be smart and happen to be like whatever, like one of them is a teacher, one of them is a model, one of them is an IT. So like they just happen to have these other things, just like they happen to be fat. So there was no pushback. I feel very like blessed to be in a situation where I pitched it and they were like, okay, cool. That's what that's what we're going with. And so it was a good, it was a good situation.

Alesia Galati 7:35

Oh my goodness, that is incredible. Like every time I hear, like, we had um Sabina Nordkist, I want to say is her how you say your last name, and she wrote a disabled-bodied book to represent like both of the main characters are disabled, and just like the pushing and shoving and like years of pitching this book, especially because she's also disabled, she didn't want to do it indie because you have to do everything yourself, right? And so having it traditionally published was something that was important to her. And so the pushback that she got of, well, is this actually gonna sell? And keep trying to push the book and push the book. So I'm so happy that you didn't have to deal with that at all. And these books are sexy first and foremost. Um, first page of Curvy Girl Summer, she's banging somebody.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Yes, I've been like it. That was how you get welcomed into the world, like Matthew's 10 baney inches. Like, that is how you are welcomed into the curve series.

Alesia Galati 8:41

I love it. I saw a review that was like, oh, we're starting right off the gate. I was like, yes, yes, we are. Absolutely. And somehow, magnificently, you have both of these books narrated by Wesley Chabon. And if anyone has ever listened to Wesley Chabon in her man voice, you know it's a good time.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

I'm always so impressed by her and like her talent because then it's like, oh, okay, Rashad came out because yes.

Alesia Galati 9:19

Yeah, both of them are such a fantastic time. I'm so curious. You are also a life coach.

unknown 9:26

Yes.

Alesia Galati 9:26

And I want to go into that a little bit. I have had coaches throughout my life when I first became a mother and I was struggling with postpartum depression, getting support around that. I also have had coaches after I lost my mom, where I was like dealing with a lot of who am I, what am I doing? What kind of parent do I want to be? I'm a young parent and also lost my parent pretty tragically. Exploring all of those things, I think that there's something so incredibly important about coaches and life coaches and people who can stand beside you and give you, empower you with the tools that you need to kind of progress through life in the way that you want to. Absolutely. I am so curious on how you use your life coaching to weave into your stories, right? To weave that journey of finding, accepting, and thriving in love, which a lot of us women can struggle with when we have traumatic pasts or traumatic things that we're kind of dealing with. So how do you kind of weave that in?

SPEAKER_01 10:30

What I concentrate on, like there's always like without fail, even when it's like the hot holiday hookups and this like the shorter novellas, I am always putting in some sort of advice, some sort of like life lesson is weaved into every story. So I can't say, oh, this one in particular thing that I'm doing in everyone, because it's a different life lesson in every story. And so with the curve series, like even each of the stories, because each of the women are different. So each of the life lessons are different. And in Aliyah's story, it's very fixated in standing in your own light and not allowing anyone to put you in anyone's shadow, to not allow anyone to tell you what it is that you need to strive for, to not let anyone else be the captain of your life. Like because we all have one life to live. And if you are allowing other people's judgments, other people's expectations dictate how you live your life, then you're not going to get all that you want and need and deserve out of life because you are living a life for someone else with someone else's playbook. And so with Nina's story, like it is the power of standing in your truth, in your confidence, in your beauty, and not allowing anyone else to dictate how you see yourself, how you view yourself. And the thing is, Nina knew every single time that she walked into a room, she was the baddest bitch in there. And that, and just owning that, but also never like talking down to uh to or about any other woman in the room, because it wasn't ever about comparison, it's about knowing and owning who you are and not being like, oh, I wish I looked like this, or I had I'm not as pretty as this person, or like I don't have the curve that this person has. It was never about that. It was always about knowing and owning who you are. And I I feel like there would be so many, I want to say confident, but it's not even just the confidence that Nina possessed. I think people would be much more self-assured if they walked into every scenario knowing and owning who they are. And then it's like, if we go into this thing and you get the job and I don't, congratulations to you. But that never takes away from me still knowing that I am wonderful, beautiful, fulfilled, all of those things. It's just you got the job and I didn't. But some people they'll lose out on something or feel like they lost out on something, and then that would negatively impact their self-image. And so Nina's story is about finding yourself, knowing who you are, and walking in that. And then with Jazz's story, one of the things that I feel like I put into Jazz's story that is not a spoiler, is that there are things that'll happen to you, and then you'll be like, why? And then all of a sudden it everything will connect, everything will click, and then you will understand. Sometimes it's not about knowing the answer right then and there, it's about moving forward, it's about keeping going, it's about it all making sense eventually. And sometimes we can get stuck in a spot because we're trying to make it make sense instead of progressing forward. And so when Aunt Addie is telling Jazz, like, you know, I want you to live your life, like live. Because there's a difference between living and existing. And like just because you are alive and you're breathing in, your lungs are working, you're breathing in that air, you are existing, but are you living? Are you doing things for you? Are you experiencing life? And so Jazz's story is about like reclamation of self, but also an ode to living as opposed to existing.

Alesia Galati 15:05

Ah, yes, I love it. And I love how you tie like all of these different life lessons that are so incredibly important. Um, that last one makes me think of something I I read it in, I want to say it was an urban romance, so like street romance. And the the quote was life is short, but it's too long to be miserable. Absolutely. And I've been saying that to my my autistic little one because he feels really big feelings and then it ruins the whole day. And I'm like, look, you get to choose the kind of day you have, and I understand wanting to be in our feelings. You got five more minutes.

unknown 15:39

Right?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Like we could be in our feelings. And the thing is, you should feel your feelings, feel them, do not deny them, do not try to like push them down because they're gonna come up eventually. Feel your feelings, but like we don't sit in it for too long. We don't, we don't park there, we feel them and then we drive through. And so loved it.

Alesia Galati 16:01

Yes, so true. And then Nina, because she's so confident, I think that sometimes, especially as women who maybe aren't as confident as Nina is, that might come off a little intimidating to be like, what would it feel like to own I'm the baddest bitch in this room every time I walked in a room?

SPEAKER_01 16:25

So first and foremost, I feel like as a society, we're programmed to not feel that way. Other people benefit from us not feeling that way. So if you are like standing in, like one thing for like myself, like not Nina, but for me, I'm like, God made me exactly how I am. So for for me not to love every every part of that, that's saying that like what I think that God made a mistake, like no. So like I feel like it is the acknowledgement that you are beautiful and fun and like just perfect the way you are, because perfection, like on one hand, perfection doesn't exist, on the other hand, perfect exists in so many different ways. There's no one perfect, and so if you own that, like, yeah, like I look great in this outfit, I feel great, I'm having a great time, then you move into the space with that confidence, and the people who are meant to gravitate toward you will, the people who don't won't. And that in and of itself is a blessing because it's like, yes, weed it out, weed it out for me. But if you are owning your space, you are owning who you are, you are owning your entire like purpose, your vibe, like you are owning it, then that is you acknowledging that like not only are you happy with who you are, that you are ready for whatever it is that you're about to do. So like if it's you're going to a party, like you're you're ready to to have fun. Like I've come, I've come into the place, I'm looking good, I'm feeling good, I'm ready to have a good time. And that is the type of energy that like draws other people in. And if there are people who are like, oh, I don't like that she is like having a good time, that says more about them than it does you. And so just owning who you are and like knowing that you are perfect exactly how you are, because perfect does not exist in just one way, either it doesn't exist at all, or it exists in so many different ways. But there's no one perfect. And so just making sure that you feel that, you own that, you hold on to that as you go to like events, as you go to a job interview. Like if you go into a job interview and you're like, I know that I'm perfect for this position, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to choose you. But it's like if you don't choose me for this position, then this position is not for me. So that frees me up to go to the position that I want. But like going into the space, knowing that you deserve to be there, that you have worked, you've earned whatever to be there, that gives you, that should give you a boost in like, yeah, I do. Like, why wouldn't I be invited to this? Why wouldn't I be offered this job? That is what we need to start telling ourselves. Because if we have it the way society wants us to have it, is that we're always questioning and doubting ourselves, our ability, our beauty, all the things. If we are always in that mindset, not only do other people benefit, because if we don't think that we're worthy, we will accept less. And if we accept less, they will give us less. Like, there's no one's gonna be like, oh, you're only gonna if they had a hundred thousand dollars to give you, and you were like, Oh, I don't want to ask, I'm gonna ask for 40, they're gonna give you 40. They might be like, you know what? I'll give you 50 because I want you to think that like I'm such a generous person, but they're not gonna give you the full amount that they would have, because they are like, oh, well, if she's gonna take less, I'm gonna give her less. Knowing that other people, because again, society has conditioned us to think like this, if we're lessening ourselves, we're dimming our light to be more palatable to other people. First, why? And then stop. Ask yourself why, and then stop doing it. Because at the end of the day, why should I dim my light to make you more comfortable? Now, there are certain occasions. If it's somebody's birthday and like they're the star of the show, okay, you know, I'll turn it down a little bit. Like, make I don't need to wear my like wedding gown. It's someone else's day. But I feel like outside of those occasions, someone's wedding, someone, someone's special occasion, you shouldn't try to steal the attention from, but your light should be shining. If everyone's light is shining like it's supposed to, we just make the room brighter. There's no like competition, there's no us like fighting for the spotlight. We're all just making the room brighter. It becomes an issue. When everyone's conditioned to turn their and dim their light, turn their lights off sometimes, but like to dim their light. So if you come in there shining bright, now it's a problem. Now it's like, oh, why? Oh, you think you think you better because you and whole time, whole time you just like, ah, life is good. I feel good. I look good. But if someone is feeling bad about themselves in whatever way you are feeling confident, then they're going to take issue with whatever that is. And that is a them problem. They would probably try to make it a you problem, but that is a them problem. So I believe that if we all just like stop dimming our light, stop dimming it. Turn that shit up.

unknown 22:51

Yeah.

Alesia Galati 22:51

It's so important. And I feel like this book, Plus Size Player, gives such a good example of that in the way that Nina lives and just how confident she is. But also how in Curvy Girl Summer, because she is in this book as well, just how she like pushes her friends to be more confident in themselves and like, come on, let's go. Get it, put the lipstick on and let's go, kind of attitude. And I just I love that so much. That friend group. Why was creating that friend group? And I noticed that you have that quite a bit in a lot of your books, at least the ones that I've read, where the women in your life who are always uplifting you, always there for you. They might steal your clothes, but that's okay, right? Why was that important to integrate in a lot of your books?

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Because I have that. And not only would I not be who I am, like I feel like there's so many things that I feel like I wouldn't have gotten through if I didn't have my girls. And so it's like, I think it's so important. And I think there is an overimportance that is put on romantic relationships and almost a devaluing of those platonic friendships, but they are equally as important. Like they are equally important, they matter so much. And when you look at, especially if you have been in a relationship and then it didn't work out, and it's like, okay, but like you thought that that person was like forever, and it turns out they weren't. But then you look back, like I've been best friends with my girls, I've been best friends with them for years, and I know it's a blessing because not everyone has that, but like I think that is the main reason why I like celebrate it so much in each of my stories, because it is a blessing, and I I recognize that it's a blessing, but I also never want it to like seem like the heroines only have the hero, and that's their only source because like that's not that's not how it should be, like that one person should not be like your end-all be all, but also there are just so much value in those friendships, in those relationships that are just you and your girls living your best lives, and because they know you, because I feel like again, the one of them I've known since I was four and she was six, two I met in the sixth grade, and then the uh fourth one I met in ninth grade, and we've been best friends for all of those years. We've been best friends for a long time, and we've seen each other through all of the things, and there's so much beauty in having people who see you, who get you, who call you on your BS, who will like if you're like, I'm interested in this, and it's like, are you interested in him? Because if you'll recall four years ago, you would, you know what I mean? Like having those friends who like know you know you, it's such a blessing, and I just always want my heroines to have that. Like sometimes it's like just the one best friend, and sometimes it's a group, but it's always necessary, it's always gonna be there.

Alesia Galati 26:28

You have 55 books, which is like crazy banana pants. My first book of yours was Work Song. Thank you. Absolutely love it. It is so good. It was when I was like, all right, I'm gonna read diversely, like the algorithm is algorithming and sending me all these white authors. Let me go find some black authors that I can actually enjoy. And yours was the one of the first ones in that year that I was making that kind of move and shift. And I was like, Yes, more of this. This is what I needed. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Thank you. I love that so much. I always say that, like, as far as like modeling goes, Tati walked so that Nina could run. For sure.

Alesia Galati 27:10

So I love that one. Everybody go check that one out as well. And then you have, of course, the Kirby Girl series. But if there was a book in your backlog that you were like, I love this book and I wish it got more love, what would that maybe one or two books be?

SPEAKER_01 27:25

It it that's hard because I love them all so much. I feel like when I suggest books to people, I'm just like, what do you have a taste for? Because I got something for everybody. If you are like, oh, I love Kirby Girl Summer, I love a slow burn, then I usually will say read InstaLove. InstaLove and The Reunion. And that is like, that's a duet, and then the one and after the one, it's another like duet, and they're both like reality TV dating shows. One's like the one and after the one is like The Bachelor, and then InstaLove is more like Love is Blind and Married at First Sight. So those, if you like a um slow burn, if you like a fast burn, like Nina's story, there's gonna be like the continuum, business casual, like the ones that they gonna get to it infrequently. So and then if you so for Jazz's story, I would say work song would be a strong equivalent because t Tati, like Jazz, is a football lover, and things things happen along that journey, and so so I would I would suggest work song, but I don't feel like enough people know or appreciate what I did with Edgar Allan Poe. Like I feel like love that for me, and I want other people to like bask in it and love it too, but I have four stories right now that are based on a Poe either short story or poem. It started with Nevermore, that's based off of The Raven, and then there's Telltale, which was based off of Telltale Heart, and then there was Annabelle and Lee, which is based off of the poem Annabelle Lee, and then the cask, which was based off of the cask of Amambiato, and so it's like Nevermore was Friends the Lovers, Telltale was like Brother's Best Friend, Annabelle and Lee was second chance romance, and the cask was enemies to lovers, but like it's not true enemies the lovers because he was her enemy, and he had no clue. Like he hated him, and he was just like I'm gonna try to get with her, and she was like plotting on his downfall, and like he was just like, How can I get you to go out with me? How can I so I feel like if you read the poem and then go into the book, you will be like, wow. But like if you just read the book, which a lot of people did, they just read the book, you're still going to love it. It's still gonna be a great story. But I think that when you see what I did with it, then I feel like that is impressive. I feel like people like are like, wow, I understand Poe's poem or Tor Story even more. But I think people also think you have to be like some sort of scholar because it's based off of Poe's work. And it's like, no, I promise. They're still getting it in. It's not, it's not what you think it might be. It's different, but like I love it, and I I do wish more people got into those.

Alesia Galati 30:59

Oh, okay. So that sounds like that needs to be an after dark book club kind of thing. Let's read the Edgar, because I love Edgar Allan Poe. Yeah, um so good. My husband's favorite poet is Edgar Allan Poe. I've got mine is Robert Frost's all good. Robert Frost.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

You said you have Robert Poe. Let me see your point, too.

Alesia Galati 31:20

Ooh, two roads diverged in a wood, and I I took the road less traveled now, and that has made all the difference.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

And it does. Listen, it does. It does. You knew what he was talking about. No, I feel like you and your husband could read what's his favorite Poe, like Cast of Montiago. Then that's where y'all should start. Because these standalones. Y'all should read that together. And then after you all read the cast, definitely circle back and let me know your thoughts. And because Poe is his favorite poet, I'm excited for y'all's thoughts.

Alesia Galati 31:58

Yes. That'll we'll have to do bonus episodes with Mr. We Read Smut. I've been trying to get him on, and I'm like, I'm gonna have to edit it because he has no filters. I have to be like, you can't say that on the internet. Good lord.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

And be like, you know what? Actually, we're not gonna have this episode. Like we thought, we thought we were going to, but right.

Alesia Galati 32:21

Oh, so fun. But yes, I think that would be so much fun to do. So everybody check the show notes in the YouTube description for the After Dark Substack. We have all the extra stuff that we like to do over here. And your book is coming out in the next few weeks. I want everybody to go pre-order it. Where is the best place to pre-order it to give you the best, you know, bang for your buck and will get you the most support?

SPEAKER_01 32:49

So I feel like any bookstore, like indie bookstores, like black-owned bookstores, women-owned bookstores, like bookstores in general, because they report. So like if it's a reporting store, that helps the most. But pre-orders are so important because if people are pre-ordering it from that store, then that tells the store that, oh, there's interest here. And so they're more likely to carry it and to carry more than just one copy of it. If that, because sometimes they don't even have the one. So, like that would be amazing if everyone could pre-order it. And then even after you pre-order it, call other bookstores and ask them if they're gonna have it. Like, you don't have to even pre-order it from a different place, too. You could just call and be like, Are y'all gonna have this? So then they feel like, oh, maybe we should have this in our stores.

Alesia Galati 33:46

Perfect. Okay, awesome. So we'll make sure that I'll grab a few. I know there's a Essence just came out with a post in the last week with like all of the black-owned bookstores across the United States. So I will have the link for that in the show notes as well. There's like a little thing you can toggle it to say, here's the state I'm in, and then you can find one in your like near you. I love that. And so I'll definitely have that. Yeah, I know. I was so excited when I saw that. And then you are also going on tour. You are gonna be in I know you're gonna be in Raleigh. Yes. What are some of the other major cities that you're gonna be at if people are like, oh, wait a minute, I want to see her on tour also.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Oh, I love that. Okay, so I'm starting in Richmond. So I'll be in Richmond on April 14th at Fountain Books. So that's where I'm starting the tour. And then it'll be from Richmond to Raleigh to Chicago to New York to LA, Houston, back to Virginia for a second, and then DC, Northern Virginia, Philly, and I think one more. And then I'll be in Petersburg May 2nd at Resist Booksellers. So, like my two local bookstores is where I'm starting and ending the tour. So Fountain on the 14th, and then May 2nd, I'll be with JL Seegers and Natasha Bishop in Petersburg, Virginia.

Alesia Galati 35:13

Awesome. And I know you have graphics on your socials as well. We'll link those in the show notes too for anyone who wants to grab those to see all of your tour dates and the places that you're gonna be so that way they can make sure that they grab those tickets because usually you do. I don't know if people know this, you usually do have to get tickets. And most of the time the tickets do come with the book and getting to meet you and talk to you for a few seconds. So definitely make sure I've been to a few, they are so incredibly wonderful being able to meet these authors in real life. Highly recommend doing this, especially because these small bookstores put these together for us. So let's support our authors. Thank you so much, Danielle. This was so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

It was so much fun. Thank you. I'm so glad that like we were able to do this. So thank you so much.

Alesia Galati 36:02

Yes. And again, make sure you guys check the show notes for all the things because all of the links will be there where you can connect with Danielle, pre order the book, maybe see her in real life, and so much more. So thank you. I love it.