Experts & Expats
The Experts & Expats podcast covers the critical aspects of moving to Europe, featuring candid stories from immigration experts and American expats who have already made the move. Hosted by the Living Abroad Academy.
Experts & Expats
Meet the Experts: How InterNations Creates Invaluable Communities for Expats
Making friends as an American expat in Europe can feel overwhelming, but you don't have to do it alone. In this episode, we sit down with Kathrin and Felix from InterNations, a global community that connects expats in over 420 cities worldwide, including 135 European locations.
They share how InterNations supports expats before and after a relocation, both online and in person. From meeting other expats who have been where you are to learning how to navigate the local challenges to simply enjoying regular meetups and recreational activities, InterNations provides a much-needed support system for their members.
Learn more at: https://www.internations.org/
Learn more about how The Living Abroad Academy informs and accelerates moves to Europe for Americans: www.livingabroadacademy.com
Kathrin 00:00
Wherever you move, even if the local people are friendly and welcoming, maybe they don't quite understand what it feels like to be this outsider, to be this stranger, and sometimes it just helps to have other people who know exactly what you feel like.
Michelle Hippler 00:18
Yeah. Yeah.
[music] 00:18
Michelle Hippler 00:23
Welcome everybody to Experts and Expats. Today, we're joined by Katherine and Felix from InterNations. For those who don't know, InterNations is an organization that's dedicated to creating and supporting expat communities around the world, literally around the world. So we'll be talking to them today about how they make landing in a foreign country just a little bit softer. So, let's introduce Kathrin and Felix. Kathrin's the Chief Marketing Officer of InterNations. She spent 10 years living, studying, and working abroad in the UK and France before returning to Munich, her native home. Kathrin's helped InterNations grow from a small, niche expat network to a global international community. She also oversees content creation, brand and design, marketing, and communication. So, lots of hats. Jeffrey and I understand how that goes in marketing. Felix is the SEO specialist at InterNations. He's married to an expat. They, for many years, were looking to start living abroad, and they have finally selected an island in Spain where they've been living for a couple of years. His experience of expat life directly has offered him insights on how to improve the InterNations strategies for marketing to expats and to also foster that awareness of how important it is to have friends abroad when you are moving to a foreign country; it makes for a happier existence, it helps smooth the way for learning all the ins and outs of the new country. So, this is exactly why I was so excited when I found your community, as we were starting to do this work with Living Abroad Academy, and why I reached out to you to do this interview. Because we really believe that you know, regardless of where you move, meeting and talking and having other people that actually speak your language also is very helpful. So, we appreciate that you organize these communities and curate them too. So, we have a lot of detailed questions, but for our listeners, we would like to have you maybe both speak you know a little bit about what you see as the mission of the InterNations in a way that I haven't spoken to already.
Kathrin 02:38
Yeah. First of all, hello everyone, and thanks a lot for inviting us. I'm very excited to be here and about InterNations, In a nutshell, InterNations offers a global community for people who live abroad. We want to be a welcoming community for and of international people that helps you find your feet faster when you're new in a country or city. And our official mission is to make expat life a great experience. And yeah, we want to do this by removing some of the barriers that expats often face when it comes to especially making friends, building a network in a new country and as an InterNations member, you can use our online platform to network globally, as you already mentioned in your introduction, globally, across borders, no matter where you are. And yeah, this is something you can start doing even before moving to a new country. And once you have moved abroad, you can attend our events, join the many different interest-based groups and activities that we have in several hundred cities around the world. And that's a really easy way to meet people who are or have been in a similar situation before, and I could share tips and advice and yeah, hopefully also become good friends, maybe.
Michelle Hippler 04:02
Yeah, great.
Felix 04:04
Yeah, and I can't add a lot to that, like that covered most of it, I'd say. And I did exactly what Kathrin just described. I lived in Munich, but I'm German, so I was a native, and I went to a bunch of InterNations events because my wife's American, and also I'm an employee, so we're supposed to, at sometimes, interact with the product, so we understand it well. And I always had a blast, but I think I never understood the relevance of that. Like, for me, it was a nice party, I would meet some cool international people. But now that I live in Spain, I actually realize that it's crucial. Like, if you have a hard time getting settled in, if you have a handful of good friends that you can meet once a week, it totally changes the game. So, I I understand the relevance of- of friendship now, and not just for for tips and getting help, but just emotional support, I guess.
Michelle Hippler 04:50
So, is InterNations located- is the headquarters in Munich, or is it just happened to be where you guys live- or lived?
Kathrin 04:57
It was founded, so in Munich and the headquarters are still in Munich, but we are remote company. So-
Michelle Hippler 05:06
Okay, yeah
Kathrin 05:07
Yeah you can work from where they live.
Jeffrey Jones 05:11
We'd love to hear, like, the story of how you originated, like, who started InterNations, and what was the reason it was started?
Kathrin 05:18
Yeah, so InterNations was born really out of the personal experience and the needs of its founders. And that- there were three founders at the beginning. Two of them both Felix and I know personally very well, because they've- yeah, they stayed with InterNations for many years and created the company we know today and we work for today. So, yeah, let me tell you their story, maybe because, because that's the one we know. So, they are- they were two German students who met and became friends while studying abroad, and after finishing university, they their ways parted, but they both pursued careers that took them to several different countries, and then when they met again some years later, they realized that despite their really different fields of work and locations- so they were from, you know, they lived in from the Americas to Europe and Southeast Asia- so, despite all these differences, the biggest challenge they faced that was always the same. That- this lack of a personal network that helps you through the first weeks and months of your life abroad, and that can then become your community if you stick around. And yeah, and that's how the idea for InterNations was born. Yeah, so it was conceived as this network of trust, where you can get advice from people who've been in your situation and bond over these shared experiences.
Jeffrey Jones 06:48
How did they develop into the large, robust organization that you have now?
Kathrin 06:53
I would say listening to, you know, what people wanted, and learning from experience because the essence behind InterNations, when the platform went live in 2007 that has kind of remained the same. That's still what we are about today, but of course, we have evolved over the years. I mean, they have, for example, our events and the big community-wide events that we have in so many cities. They were not there right from the start, but pretty early on. So, we noticed that something that people want, they want to connect in real life. They want to meet others. And then after several years of that, we realized that there was also a lot of interest among members to meet up in smaller groups, interest-based groups, you know, so maybe not only these big networking type events, but just more intimate settings. And so, that's something we- we added the infrastructure for that to also make this possible in at least our big communities. Then we started to publish helpful content for expats, both on our own platform, but also on other channels, such as YouTube, social media, etc, etc. So, yeah.
Jeffrey Jones 08:09
How many members do you have now?
Kathrin 08:11
We have five and a half million registered members.
Michelle Hippler 08:16
Wow.
Kathrin 08:17
That includes people everywhere.
Michelle Hippler 08:20
Yeah.
Kathrin 08:21
So, you know, it's not like you go to an InterNations event and you meet hundreds of people all the time. It's- we do, of course, have these big communities, like Dubai, London, Singapore, big international expat hubs, where we also have several thousand members. And there you will, if you go to an event, there will be lots of people, but we also have a lot of smaller communities. We also have members who don't live in a city where we have events or an active group or- yeah. So for these members, we also offer our global online events for example, or forum, but you won't probably will never meet them at an event, because it's not in reach for them.
Felix 09:04
I would just add two more things to the reason why we grew, because I think the two aspects that are also very crucial. First of all, the volunteer basis, like the people that the Ambassadors and the Consuls that organized a lot of these things. I got to meet some of them, and we did some YouTube mini-documentaries about certain cities, and the enthusiasm and the motivation that they have is amazing, and they are really what makes these local communities unique and special. And the other aspect, I would say, is that the company itself is like 70-80% expats, most times, like when I started, and we were still never fully remote, but when I started, we were in an office in Munich, and it was like the mini UN like they were, like, people from New Zealand, Australia, from Eastern Europe, India, China, like, everywhere. And it's quite amazing that helped to to have the mindset, right?
Jeffrey Jones 09:51
So 5.5 million members. Are those all expats? Or are there some- I'm a member I should know probably.
Kathrin 09:57
No. I mean. You don't have to know that they're not all expats. We also have, of course, people who joined when they were expats since then have returned to their home countries, but they're still members, and sometimes they also become event hosts. You know, the people that Felix just mentioned, because they had a good time when they were abroad, partly thanks to InterNations and then they want to give back, and they want to kind of invest in the community somehow. And even though they're no longer expats, they know what it was, what it was like to be one. We also have people who are looking to become expats so they're not abroad yet. We also have members who are maybe just have a very international background, or maybe their spouse is an expat, and you know, they also want to be in that community together with them, and/or people who have to travel a lot for business reasons or whatever reasons, because that's also a nice thing of having a global community. Of course, you can travel to Tokyo, you can go to an InterNations event, and two weeks later New York, you can do the same. So.
Michelle Hippler 11:09
Yeah. I wanted to speak to something too that just keeps coming up. I remember when I was an early- just tourist- being a tourist, you know. It was always like, "oh, I want to live like the locals." The whole Airbnb concept is like how to live like a local, how to integrate into the local community, so that you're not just the visitor. But I want to speak to this idea that, yes, that's great, and that expats should be integrating, right? Learning the language, trying to integrate, but as someone who has been a nomad, even within the United States throughout my entire life, I know how hard it is to penetrate cultures. You know, Seattle was a tough nut. I never cracked that one after 20 years of being there, I was still an outsider. All my friends were transplants, right? And this happens in- in some countries like are much more like that than others. So, having this sort of an oasis of a place to go where you can relate to the other transplants or nomads or travelers, right? Is really just golden, really. To have that for the mental health aspect alone, right? You can feel very lonely, you know, as a nomad or as a transplant in places, and this seems to be such a great- like because already people have something in common, right? They've uprooted their life, and they're living somewhere outside of their comfort zone.
Kathrin 12:30
That's the thing, right? Because I feel that even if people wherever you move, even if the local people are friendly and welcoming, maybe they don't quite understand what it feels like to be this outsider, to be this stranger. And sometimes it just helps to have other people who know exactly what you feel like.
Michelle Hippler 12:52
Yeah, yeah.
Kathrin 12:52
And for me, it was always both, you know? When I- because I wanted to when I left them in the UK, I made sure the people I live with, they were all locals, etc, etc. So, of course, I wanted to integrate. I worked at a company with mostly people from the UK, but- but still, a lot of my friends were also other other international people.
Michelle Hippler 13:17
And like I remember being in Vietnam and a young girl who befriended me. There's a lot of, like, super friendly people there, but it was like, she just looked at me, like, what are you doing? You're like, a 50-something year old woman with a daughter back in the States. Why are you here? Like, you're crazy. You know, because they're all about family- like, right? So, they- lot of times, the cultures just really don't understand. You're kind of a freak for doing that.
Jeffrey Jones 13:45
at least she was empathetic. Sometimes you get the feeling like, "just, please leave." You know?
Felix 13:51
I mean, I think there's also an interesting aspect to it, is that it's a huge catalyst. If you're an expat in a country, you're able to break out of your normal bubble I think. Because all the other expats that you meet, they could be completely different to you, socio-economically, or what they do in life, what they like, and the fact that you're both foreigners in another country is a huge binding power, I feel like. So, I have a lot of- lot more diversity in my friend circle now, which I really cherish. And the other thing is, I think at these InterNations events, they're always locals, and they're usually locals, like Kathrin said, they lived abroad for a while, they speak English, and they are seeking out the international community. I wonder, like, I think a lot of them have a bit of like, they're missing their expat life, and so they're kind of recreating it where they're technically at home.
Michelle Hippler 14:34
Right
Felix 14:35
But yeah, I think it helps you to find locals. Not usually- I mean, you might not have that, like, super local experience, like you're only in touch with them, but you will find some locals, and they will know all the tricks, and they can teach you about how to do things the best way, and so on. And especially if you move somewhere with a language barrier, I think these locals are super important, like the ones that speak English and they want to help, and they're friendly, and they help me a lot.
Michelle Hippler 14:59
That's great. So, I wanted to ask you, first of all, how many cities worldwide are you in? First, and then, how many cities in Europe are you in?
Kathrin 15:10
So, we are in- worldwide in 420 cities, and in Europe,- well, I don't know the exact number of cities, but if we're looking at cities where we have a regular events or activities, and when I say regular, I mean at least once a month. Then that in Europe, that's around 135 cities. So, that's where we- this year, had at least one event per month on average. But then there are, of course, huge differences on a local level. Different communities like Madrid or Munich, there's basically one event per day you can attend, or something like that.
Michelle Hippler 15:56
Wow.
Kathrin 15:57
There's a huge offering. And then there are also many smaller communities like Verona in Italy, for example, is one I recently came across where you have one event per month, you know? But still it's- it's a regular opportunity to meet up, and it's always possible of course for members to meet outside our official events.
Michelle Hippler 16:18
Yeah, right. You make friends and then be outside. Yeah.
Kathrin 16:21
Yeah.
Michelle Hippler 16:21
So, I want to start first with the membership process, because I applied twice and was rejected twice. And I- so it kind of got me curious as to why that happened. The notification didn't tell me why, but I was applying from outside of Europe. I was, I think, in Mexico the first time, and then the States the second time. So my IP address may have given me away. I had selected that I was coming- I was planning to move, but it sounds like that is absolutely part of the membership, people who are not there yet. So, I'm curious like, what is the membership process, and why would people be rejected? I was also using a work email that is Living Abroad Academy. So it's like it may have been something felt spammy, or something I don't know.
Kathrin 17:09
I mean, we have different quality assurance measures in place. Of course, in general, it starts with registrations, where we may ask people for their motivation for wanting to join. We know, I mean, this wasn't the case now with you, but sometimes we have people who are not expats, who want to join simply because they want to promote their business to expats, for example, and that's not something we want to encourage. So, InterNations is not meant as a commercial platform. Then the other criterias we consider language skills. For example, we use English as our language of communication officially. And we also want all our members to speak and understand English, because- yeah, well, it's simply still the most widely used international business language, and we want to make sure that everyone can communicate with everyone. Which gets difficult once people don't have this one common language you will- at the events you will get you know, groups, people might feel isolated because they don't understand the language of one of the groups, etc. So, that's something we want to counteract. So, these are some of our own criteria. But then there's another level to it, and that might explain, maybe also why you were rejected to an extent. So, the thing is that, you know, scammers are on the rise everywhere. I think, I mean at least, I know at least one person was fallen prey to some sort of online scam recently. I think everyone does and and they're not isolated cases. It's proper organized crime, really, and they have very sophisticated methods, and that also requires counter-measures. So, because we are aware of the danger, and we have started to, on top of our own quality [assurance] measures, we also started to work with external service providers. Who are integrated in our platform, and they specialize in fraud protection, and these service providers don't reveal the details of how they work, for obvious reasons. So, but- but they're very good at detecting potential fraud, and they're so good that sometimes that leads to false positives, unfortunately. So, it is possible that real people trying to register with the best of intentions, they don't get approved. And yeah, we are very sorry when that happens, of course, if this happens also to any of our listeners, we ask for your understanding. Yeah, we're just really trying our best to protect our members from scammers. And that's why.
Felix 20:01
I mean this is clearly like from- from my department, that's- that's kind of the worst case scenario, because we put a lot of effort and then spend money on acquiring new members and to get eyeballs in the product, and then somebody gets declined that is not a scammer. That's a big problem for us.
Michelle Hippler 20:17
What would you advise people to do if they do get rejected? Is there an email or somewhere on the website that they could go to reach out and say, "hey, I'm not a scammer. I really want to join."
Kathrin 20:28
We have a support team, so I would really suggest to then contact support and explain your- your case,
Michelle Hippler 20:37
Right, okay. Great.
Jeffrey Jones 20:39
So, as far as membership levels, so when I joined, I was originally a Basic member. I hope I got that right. And then I noticed, oh, there's so many interesting events I could attend if I was an Albatross. So I upgraded to the Albatross. So, you did a good job keeping me on that path. So, could you speak to what the different levels are and what you get in those?
Kathrin 21:00
Yeah. So, in most communities it's- we have this Basic membership, which is free, and the premium membership called Albatross membership. And the big difference there is that you can, with the premium membership, you can join all these interest-based groups that we also mentioned before. So, there's just a bigger variety of things to attend. So, you yeah- just it's a lot easier to meet your kind of people as a Basic member, you can still attend the community-wide events. There's a slightly higher fee at the door for basic members, for Albatross members, it's often free to join these events, or they pay less. But I would say that is the main difference. There are some other advantages for premium members when it comes to online networking tools and also, you know, switching off advertising, and-
Jeffrey Jones 22:01
That's a good thing
Kathrin 22:02
-things like that.
Jeffrey Jones 22:03
Yes, well, I'm enjoying and, you know, digging in, exploring and learning more. I just joined the museums group. I'm really excited about that. So, there's a lot.
[music] 22:11
Jeffrey Jones 22:14
Hey, there just a reminder that you can learn more about moving to Europe at livingabroadacademy.com.
Michelle Hippler 22:20
Sign up for our newsletter and stay up to date on our latest podcasts, events, and more.
Jeffrey Jones 22:26
You can also submit questions and ideas for future podcasts on the website.
Michelle Hippler 22:30
We appreciate you being a part of our community. Thanks again for joining us.
Jeffrey Jones 22:34
And now back to the show.
[music] 22:35
Michelle Hippler 22:40
So, I wanted to have you explain who-who the Ambassadors are. What are the Consuls? You have these terms, but I'm assuming these are volunteer positions, not employees, and tell me what they do.
Kathrin 22:54
Yeah. So, the InterNations Ambassador, they usually play a crucial role, as Felix said before, in bringing people together in their community. And they're often long-term members who are well connected in the community, and they enjoy organizing and hosting events. And they, you know, at the events they'll be there to welcome guests, especially new members, introduce them to others, answer questions, etc. And yeah, the Ambassadors is not a paid role. The idea is that it benefits both the InterNations community and the Ambassador. And very often, members become Ambassadors because they want to give something back to the community. And yeah, sometimes they have- they may have been members for many years and met many people through InterNations, and now they have the feeling that with that experience, they can help others. Sometimes they're just natural-born networkers and hosts. For example, I have a friend who used to be an InterNations Ambassador in the US for many years, until he moved back to Germany. And I've known him for a long time, so our friendship predates even the existence of InterNations, and he has always been someone who just loves hosting, bringing people together, he loves organizing things. I've been on several vacation trips that he organized, and it's just his thing. So, he was simply the perfect fit for the role, and he enjoyed it a lot. And yeah, just for the record, I had nothing to do with him becoming an Ambassador. He actually, he had been an InterNations member, actually, even before I started working there. So, it's really just it really fitted his personality type. And I think that's the case with a lot of our Ambassadors, actually, and-and Consuls as well. So, the Consuls are the ones who organize the smaller events in the in the groups.
Felix 24:49
And I would say becoming a Consul is technically something anyone can do. If you're a member, and you have a hobby that you would like to participate in in your new location, and there's nothing yet that exists, you can found it, and there's a chance you're going to find a handful of people that are willing to do it with you. So, Consul is something that you can just do, if you're willing to organize some- some smaller events. You don't have to create a big party for a few 100 people. It's just a four or five to 10,15 people. And you can do whatever you want to do. I'm actually thinking about creating a scuba group here to go diving some more. So, it's a low effort thing that you can do, and there's not a lot of responsibility in terms of, "I have to do this now, forever and ever." You can- you can start it and see where it takes you. And I think a lot of people should look at it this as well that they don't just feel like, okay, what's the offering that I can do? But like, what is maybe, what- where I would like to offer something, and then I find the right people to join me. And-and the Ambassadors in bigger cities in Madrid and Barcelona, the ones I met, they're like minor celebrities. They-they're really well connected. They may be not well connected enough to run for mayor, but they know a lot of people in that city, so it's pretty cool.
Michelle Hippler 25:57
That was our next question was, how does one become an Ambassador? How do you select them or allow them to become Ambassadors? Is there a criteria that you're looking for specifically? Or-
Kathrin 26:09
Yeah.
Michelle Hippler 26:09
is it organic?
Kathrin 26:11
No. So, generally speaking, it's, of course, important that our Ambassadors identify with InterNations, with our mission, with our values, because they act as representatives, in a way. And there also needs to be an open position, so to say, because the number of Ambassadors per community depends on the size of the community. So, it's not that we have an endless- you can just become one and then start organizing events, etc, etc. But when there's an open position, we sometimes get recommendations from within the community for someone who could be a great Ambassador, or we'll approach active and engaged community members, maybe group Consuls and ask them if they're interested in, you know, becoming InterNations Ambassador. Or we might just also put out a message to the whole community if there are no obvious candidates. And then, before an Ambassador gets officially appointed, they join a call with one of our community engagement specialists to talk about the role and cover any open questions, discuss mutual expectations, and yeah, when everyone is happy, then the onboarding process starts. So, there are, of course, certain expectations, there are benefits that come with the role, but also the expectation is that you organize like one event per month to keep the community active and engaged, because that's the whole idea behind it.
Michelle Hippler 27:40
I'm curious about opening a new city. Is it because you found somebody that has been in InterNations before, and they've moved somewhere where there is no InterNations group, and that how it happens? Or do you guys organize it on your end?
Kathrin 27:55
We haven't actually opened new communities in a long, long time now. In the past, it was the case that when we noticed that in a certain city there was regular activity, we had active members who met up quite a lot, then we would open their own community, so to say. I remember, for example, long time ago, I- in Poland, we only had a community in Warsaw, and back then, I traveled to Krakow to visit a friend and attended a small InterNations gathering there. It was only 10-15 people meeting in a bar, but they were really dedicated, and they met up regularly, and they always wanted to have their own community. And it took us another couple of years, I believe, but in the end, then we did open another community in Krakow as well. But I think at the moment, we're pretty saturated, I would say. So, we'd rather focus on developing the communities we already have and making sure that there's a good variety of things going on there, rather than opening new ones.
Jeffrey Jones 29:03
Do your communities, like for- for example, I live in a- I live in a suburb. You could call it a suburb of Barcelona. It's about 20 minutes south, and there's a lot of older people here, and it is kind of a big effort to go into Barcelona. You might not want to create a Sitges, or you know- but do you have satellites of cities? Like, do you have meetings, maybe in the suburbs of a city so that someone doesn't have to go into the downtown?
Kathrin 29:27
That's possible yeah. I mean, it would then still officially be part of the bigger city community, but it's always possible for members and Ambassadors and Consuls to organize activities and events a bit further out. It doesn't have to be in the city center at all. So, if there's- if you say, you know, there are actually quite a lot of people living there, and then it's- or you could also maybe talk to the Ambassador or one of the resources and suggest that.
Felix 29:59
I mean either that- you can find a group Consul that is willing to host there as well, or if their topic lends itself to that. But you could also consider, if this is a big suburb, and there's a lot of expats there, and that would be big enough, you can create a group, then it's called: "whatever the name of the suburb is" social group- or something, and then you just organize a variety of different events there. So always possible.
Jeffrey Jones 30:23
Thank you.
Michelle Hippler 30:23
Jeffrey that might be- that might be something for Sitges. I can see people in Barcelona wanting to go down to the beach.
Jeffrey Jones 30:29
yeah.
Michelle Hippler 30:29
For the day.
Jeffrey Jones 30:30
I've really wanted to organize some groups in Sitges, you know, meetups or something. So, I think that would be a good way to do it, yeah. So, you know, one thing we've been curious about is the- the determining factor between a group you have- we were just talking about Barcelona, right? Like Madrid, Barcelona, Nice, where you- there's a lot of activities. And then I believe you said Verona has, like, one a month. Beautiful city, but they have one a month. What is the determining factor, or the differentiator?
Kathrin 30:56
Yeah. Well, I don't think there's one determinant factor, unfortunately, otherwise, it would be easy to replicate that everywhere. I think it's always a combination of factors there. Certainly the- I think the composition of the local population and of the expat population plays a role. You know, what- or even the lifestyle, general vibe of a city. Do people go out a lot? Is there a lot of things going on? The market probably plays a role, and what other ways are there to meet people- or international people in particular? But it's not the case that in big international cities, where there may be lots of other alternatives or a lot of competition from other platforms. So, it's not the case that we don't have active communities there. So, it's quite on the contrary. I think it's really the critical mass also that matters. The size of the community. You need a certain critical mass of people for things to take off and become really lively. But yeah, in the end, it's- a community is what you make of it. So, we provide the infrastructure, try to support as much as we can, but in the end, it's down to- to the members themselves to a certain degree. If there are a few members who are natural community-builders, who love connecting with people who create this welcoming atmosphere, then that helps a lot. And then- then if there's this critical mass of people who attend the events regularly, then I think that community has a really good basis for becoming very lively and active. And that's, of course, what we would love for all our communities. But yeah.
Jeffrey Jones 32:35
Are there any cities that are maybe smaller, but you're like, really surprised how vibrant the community is?
Felix 32:40
Munich, for some reason.
Jeffrey Jones 32:42
Munich? Okay.
Kathrin 32:43
It's not that small, but true. It's small compared to-
Felix 32:47
Singapore-
Kathrin 32:47
-many of the big international expat hubs, but it's super- super lively.
Jeffrey Jones 32:51
That's good to know.
Felix 32:52
I mean, like where I live now, in Tenerife, it's not super lively. I wouldn't compare it to Barcelona, obviously, much smaller than that, but I traveled to Taipei last year, major city, obviously. Millions of inhabitants, but apparently the expat scene is just so much smaller that the events they're really small, like maybe four or five people. Here, regularly we're 20 or more. So, depends on a variety of factors. It's not just that giant cities will also have a lot of expats. Some cities just don't have them.
Michelle Hippler 33:22
It's it's kind of a typical membership, you know, model. It depends on the people really, in those communities.
Jeffrey Jones 33:29
Cities attract different kinds of people. Think about somebody from Madrid or somebody and it's just really different types of people.
Kathrin 33:38
Exactly.
Jeffrey Jones 33:38
Different energy.
Kathrin 33:38
And that's- this big difference, also within Germany, even between Munich and Berlin. Very different cities, right? Very different vibe, very different expat scene, and that also reflects in what our events are like and how many people go there and and so forth. It's interesting.
Jeffrey Jones 33:54
So we wanted to ask, Do you have any favorite stories to share about how InterNations helps its members and really highlight some of the aspects that have benefited them?
Felix 34:02
Yeah. I mean, I have a lot, because I traveled with our videographer to a few cities here in Europe, and we filmed a local community to show their like, what they built, basically. And I mostly talked to people that were already they already progressed to Consuls or Ambassadors. So, they- they not just a normal member, but they're now already helping out with hosting events and so on. But there were some amazing stories in there, like one member in Madrid. He started life in a refugee camp in Pakistan, then he came to Madrid and built a successful business, and now he- he's one of many things. He's a iInterNations Ambassador, and he was inspiring, because you could tell he had a very different background and a very different point of view than the other people, but he was mingling with all kinds of people that he probably wouldn't have met otherwise. Yeah, he was super positive. He actually organizes, also trips. And there was also a refugee from Ukraine. I think she actually was not yet a Consul, but she was also very involved in the community, and she was just really positive how much people helped her out, like they organized people that would go with her to the different offices where she had to get her paperwork done and did a variety of little, I would say, like efforts to help her get started. And she, I think she said InterNations "saved my life." We also have a lot of people that got married after they met at events. There's a bunch of kids around I think that exist because people met at events. So, we hear a lot of those stories, and I'm always impressed how how incredibly enthusiastic some of those hosts are about InterNations, because when we tried to interview them, we had a catalog of questions that we wanted to get through, and for quite some time they were just telling me "oh, this is so great, and thank you for this." And like, yeah, okay, it's really nice to hear, but we also have to get to the questions we have. So, yeah. I mean, especially in those bigger communities, if you go to a big event and you talk to the Ambassador or the Consuls, you will see that these people have lots and lots of stories- what the platform did for them and the other members,
Jeffrey Jones 35:57
Very nice.
Michelle Hippler 35:57
That's great. Yeah. So, what are your future goals and the vision? It sounds like you're trying to focus more on building support for the existing groups. Anything else in the pipeline that's new and exciting or?
Kathrin 36:14
Yeah, so our focus for the near future is really to ensure that all our members can make the most of their membership. So, instead of, you know, trying out new things, we really want to make sure that the value is there for everyone. We talked about it just now. So, we have a lot of very active, lively communities, but we also have communities in smaller cities or in areas where maybe the expat population isn't so big, or it's spread out quite far geographically as well, and that makes it a lot more difficult to have regular events and activities there. But believe there's still a lot of potential to also help expat in these regions to find people to connect with, and that's also something we want to get better at, and that's why we're currently working on providing a better online networking experience. So, connecting online with others will often be the first point of contact from- many of our members who either don't have the time to attend events, or they live in areas where we don't have many regular events, but they would probably still like to meet others, you know, who are in a similar situation, and we currently see it as our job to make that possible, to make that easier for members and by giving them the right tools to connect with each other. So, that's our current focus.
Jeffrey Jones 37:33
If any of you, our listeners and viewers are interested in InterNations, you can find out more and request membership at internations.org. You'll also find their link in the text description of this episode.
Michelle Hippler 37:44
Yeah, thank you again, Kathrin and Felix. It's been really wonderful having you here with us at Experts and Expats and for the many great things that you're doing on all these cities to support the global expat community.
Kathrin 37:56
Thank you so much for having us. It was really nice to talk to you, and likewise, really admire your work and looking forward to see your courses go online.
Felix 38:05
Thanks. It's been a pleasure. I think the idea you have to onboard basically Americans to Europe is actually amazing. So, it's a fun job to do. I always love it if I have someone that is fresh off the boat, basically, and they're still in this state of amazement. It kind of tells me that I live somewhere that's pretty special.
Michelle Hippler 38:26
Yeah.
Jeffrey Jones 38:26
Thank you. Appreciate it.
Michelle Hippler 38:28
Very cool. All right. Well, thank you so much.
[music] 38:43