E7: From Corporate to Crumb: How Amie Smith Built a Beloved Scratch Bakery After 50

What happens when a high-powered marketing consultant trades her corporate corner office for a 30-quart mixer and a dream? In this powerful episode of The Perfect Rise, Kimberly Houston sits down with Amie Smith, pastry chef and owner of a thriving scratch bakery on Cape Cod, to talk about building a second-act career from the ground up—literally.

Amie shares her unexpected journey from Manhattan tech to pastry school, the reality of launching a bakery in her 50s, and the rollercoaster of growing from a tiny café to a custom-built 3,500 sq ft bakery. You'll hear:

• Why she left a six-figure marketing business to follow a baking dream
• How she navigated major setbacks—including COVID, staff turnover, and scaling pains
• Her honest take on what it really takes to run a food business
• The reason she’ll never open a second location (and why that’s okay)
• Why every culinary entrepreneur needs a “squirrel account”

This episode is a must-listen for anyone wondering if it’s too late to follow their passion—or what’s really possible when you stop asking for permission.

🔗 Learn more about the Retail Bakers of America: https://www.retailbakersofamerica.org
📢 Subscribe for more inspiring interviews with bakers, owners, and culinary pros across the country.

#BakeryBusiness #ScratchBaking #WomenInBusiness #CareerPivot #BakingAfter50 #RetailBakersOfAmerica #ThePerfectRisePodcast #BakeryOwnerStory #Entrepreneurship #FoodBusinessTips #CulinaryCareerChange

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Transcript

: Kimberly Houston (00:00.652)
Hello friends and welcome back to the podcast today. My guest is Amy Smith and I'm super excited to share this conversation with you all. So we're going to jump right in. Amy, if you can tell me what inspired you to get into the baking world? What is your origin story?

Amie Smith (00:19.821)
Well, the truth of the matter is that owning a bakery and being a pastry chef was never, ever on my radar. Never. My dad was a baker before I was born, and he gave that up after I was born because of the hours. And we would bake these large bakery-sized batches, maybe...

once a year and we didn't have any of the fancy tools and I loved baking but I also was fascinated by Julia Child even as a toddler I would sit in front of the TV and my mom would have to kind of drag me away so I was always fascinated by food and in a strange way fast forward all these years later everything has sort of come full circle because everything that

I've heard from people who knew me throughout my childhood and my later years, even in college, remember me doing a lot of baking and being interested in food. But my career was mostly in high tech corporate marketing. in 2008, the economy downturn is...

was usually, anytime there was an economic downturn, usually was a feasting time for my business because companies would outsource. And in 2008, it was a different story. And I was living in midtown Manhattan, and I had taken recreational classes at the Institute of Culinary Education. And we would always get the newsletter, and they had this pastry program. And I was like, oh, never, I was like, oh, that looks great, but I would never have time to do it.

I had nothing but time and I was actually quite depressed because I was always a workaholic. I was never out of work. Even in previous downturns, my business got busier. I had somebody working for me for like 10 years full time. It was a very strange time in 2008. Never saw anything like it before. was like a light switch went off and it was done. But suddenly that area in the newsletter that had the

Amie Smith (02:33.529)
pastry program was like, hmm, well, I have nothing but time right now and maybe I ought to investigate this. So I actually looked into it and decided to do it. And literally it was like.

know life-changing obviously because I am now pastry chef and I have a bakery and I'm in my 11th year as we speak we just started our 11th year and pastry school was where I kind of reignited this passion that was kind of sleepy I think and

I know, I always watched the Food Network and I was always watching food shows and I was thinking about it later and even when I was at my corporate events, I was always interested, I traveled the world. I was always interested in where we were going to eat at a local food scene. Like it never even occurred to me that that was a signal for something else, right? But I was always obsessed with.

food, and that's all I could think about. And if I was at a cocktail party, I really didn't want to engage in the small chat. I wanted to see what appetizers were going around the room. And I was really curious, or if there was an ingredient. I took a lot of recreational cooking classes. I went overseas and took classes just to learn, because I always loved to learn about new ingredients and how to make things.

I don't know. When I got to pastry school, we were making things. The other thing that kind of hit me was that the chef would start the class every day, like today we're making, fill in the blank, whatever we were making. And then she would always stay right after that. But nobody makes us anymore. And finally, one day I said, oh,

Amie Smith (04:20.697)
you know, what are people making? And I kind of knew instinctively what the answer was, because all the stuff that I, you know, you could see that was out there was really mass manufactured now, pretty much. And the stuff we were tasting in class was stuff that I remember from my childhood. I grew up in New Jersey, right outside of New York City. And, you know, we had the greatest bakeries. And I remember all the things that used to come to the family gatherings and how they tasted.

Kimberly Houston (04:32.078)
Thank

Amie Smith (04:50.751)
and we were making this stuff in class and I was like my gosh this is like what I used to have no one no one's making this it's so easy to make this and so

Kimberly Houston (04:59.15)
Thank you.

Amie Smith (05:01.897)
I decided that after I graduated from school that I wanted to have a bakery because I wanted to be able to produce things and I couldn't eat it all myself. I needed to share it, right? So I knew I wanted to open in Osterville because I had a second home here and this community is so great. We have a cute little village and of course the neighborhood bakeries that sort of not vanished but there was really a downward trend for like, I don't know, a couple of decades. And I think that

Kimberly Houston (05:12.919)
Yes.

Kimberly Houston (05:29.208)
Mm-hmm.

Amie Smith (05:31.723)
That's when a lot of chains started opening. And then, you know, I think there's like a couple of generations that really didn't experience scratch baking the way that I did. So I was really determined to bring scratch baking back. And one of my chef instructors said, well, you know, do you want to make money? Like, or not. And I was like, well, you know, yeah, but I knew that at least here this was going to work because I know

Kimberly Houston (05:53.134)
Mm-hmm.

Amie Smith (06:01.997)
the community and I know they would appreciate the quality and they would be able to support what I was going to do. So I kept looking here in Austria for a space after I graduated and we're on a septic system here on Cape. Not every town has a sewer. So we're now like on a plan for sewer, but it's like I might not even be alive to see it come to fruition, honestly. But all that said,

Kimberly Houston (06:22.446)
Okay.

Amie Smith (06:31.931)
And it makes a difference with the grease traps that are required and the grease interceptors. So there's a limited number of places that you can do food. So our village had this little village cafe and it was like the size of a hallway basically. But everybody knew it as the newsstand and it was many businesses over a period of time. And at the point where I bought the business,

It was called the Village Cafe. Now, I didn't need to buy somebody else's business. had over the five years after I graduated pastry school and I'd been looking. And I looked at several different places, like a lease would come up but couldn't do food. So this happened repeatedly. It was very frustrating. And then the Village Cafe came up for sale. And they were doing food there, so I knew you could do food there. But unfortunately, I had to buy the guy's business because I knew somebody would buy it eventually. And then

I wouldn't have the space. So I literally, and my accountant thought I was insane. And I was kind of insane, but I had this burning desire to do this. And I literally felt like I had to do, I had to try before I died. Like even if I lost all my money.

Kimberly Houston (07:49.454)
Mm-hmm.

Amie Smith (07:52.665)
even though I had planned and I had saved and I had, this was a well thought out thing, I was like, if it doesn't work, at least I try. That was my whole mission when I started. I have to get this out of my system. So that's kind of how I felt about it. And then I ended up buying the business for which I have a meat slicer and a ladle, I think, from the, like it was just to really get the space and take over the lease kind of situation. And fast forward,

We gutted the space. I started the business. We were in that space for four years and then we lost our lease. in the meantime that we were building another location up the street and a very strange thing happened because the garage that we ended up tearing down and building this new facility was an eyesore.

And it was very strange. Our town is like very beautiful and picturesque. And when you come in and out of town, there was this old garage. And it was just the strangest looking building. But I used to always drive by it because I had to pass it going in and out of town. And I would say that'd be the perfect spot for my bakery. I said this for years. Then one day, it was available. And I still can't believe it as I sit here that this

building is standing here. And I was, I would say like.

two plus years into my first place. And I knew I wanted to move out from my landlord situation. And it was small and it was old. And even though we had fixed up the inside and I invested a lot in redoing the inside, I wanted to get out of there. And I had been looking for other spots. But when the garage became available, I thought it was going to be like, go inside and fix it up. Like I did with that space. But my builder said that it was a tear down.

Kimberly Houston (09:29.678)
Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Houston (09:51.31)
in.

Amie Smith (09:55.963)
because there was no plumbing, no heating, and the roof was going to cave in. That's what he said to me. And he goes, and you need an architect. And then this became like an entire, I mean, I could have a third career as a commercial developer, because really for two years from meeting with the architect and having to go through a whole site plan. I've built plenty of residential buildings, but.

Kimberly Houston (10:17.069)
and

Amie Smith (10:23.277)
This was certainly a different task. then.

You know, we built the new location and I had done all the studies for the traffic. It's sort of just before you reach the downtown village. But, you know, we have a parking lot. It's kind of tough to park downtown. It's almost like thirty five hundred square feet. And we had like six hundred in the last location. And we really expanded our menu, we expanded everything that we did here in this building state of the art, you know, built from scratch. But

Kimberly Houston (10:39.308)
Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Houston (10:55.214)
Yeah.

Amie Smith (10:57.305)
the whole notion that I was now taking on a huge amount of debt. And I started the bakery just before I was turning 50. And I thought, I'm actually...

you know, I really must have lost my mind because I thought my life has been going in a different direction. I've been working really hard for a long time. I was thinking, you know, retirement might be on the early retirement might be, you know, sort on the horizon, even though I'm not one to like retire in the sense of like, you know, not working, because I enjoy work. But it was very different.

Kimberly Houston (11:13.358)
Thank

Kimberly Houston (11:30.67)
Thank you.

Amie Smith (11:36.417)
taking on the first shop that we did because I was traveling whenever I wanted, working remotely. I a consultant. had a really thriving marketing communications business. And now I was going to be in the food business. It was learning a new business. And it was really being strapped to a schedule that I wasn't used to.

and hiring people and doing like I'm wearing every single hat. It was different. My overhead was certainly different. And I had somebody working for me that was working remote. And it was just the flexibility was completely gone. My freedom was gone. And then learning all the ins and outs of the food business. You can study it as much as you want and prepare. But.

Kimberly Houston (12:05.582)
Thank

Amie Smith (12:24.153)
It was the hardest work I have ever done mentally and physically. I was shocked at the amount of details that were required to run the business. And I really understood for the first time why a lot of businesses, especially food businesses, go out, go under. It's really not hard to see how that can happen. anyway, I really

Kimberly Houston (12:32.407)
Thank

Amie Smith (12:55.001)
wanted some flexibility in terms of my schedule and being in charge of what I was going to be doing. Like I didn't want to always be fearing that I was going to have to be put out by a landlord kind of situation. That was one thing. I had more control over my hours, my operating hours, because I was dictated in the other place. And so having my own location that I owned,

Kimberly Houston (13:09.934)
Thank you.

Amie Smith (13:23.449)
was going to allow me to have more flexibility in how I ran my business without having to worry about, you know, losing a lease or being told I have to stay open, this or that, the other thing. the control that I needed for my operations, I think, really changed when I opened my own location.

Kimberly Houston (13:33.166)
.

Amie Smith (13:48.964)
Anyway, I took on, okay, so that was like, I was already, how old was I? Like I was five years, so 55-ish, and now taking on a massive amount of debt, thinking, wow, I'm even a little closer to like the retirement realm.

And now I'm going in the opposite direction of when I bought my house when I was in my 20s. You know I'm saying? Are you crazy? But at the end of the day, my love for this business and what we do here is so strong. And all the stories I could tell, which we don't even obviously have time for, which will all be in my book.

Kimberly Houston (14:16.226)
Yes.

Amie Smith (14:35.895)
the relationships that I've built, the team that I've built.

the menu, the products, all that stuff was possible in this new location. We did it in the other place and I cannot believe looking back the size place that we had, the amount of stuff that we did. And now we have a bigger kitchen and we have a huge basement. We have all the storage and it's funny because we've grown a lot in this location and yet sometimes we're like,

wow, need, there's no room for, you know, XYZ. Like we had after our first summer here, because summers are the height of our season. And.

Kimberly Houston (15:19.085)
Mm-hmm.

Amie Smith (15:22.317)
we were using a 30 quart mixer and the 30 quart mixer now to us like looks like a KitchenAid because when in the old location we first had 30 quarters like this is gigantic. And then after our first summer here in the new location we were so busy and we were having to do multiple production batches in that 30 quart because it wasn't big enough. So then we were like where are we going to fit a 60 quart mixer? Like we were like how could it be like we built this new facility and now we're like you know need

meeting space. so literally, like we have, because we didn't know when we built this location, how things were going to, you know, kind of fall out. So you kind of build it anticipating what

Kimberly Houston (15:54.359)
you.

Kimberly Houston (16:08.617)
and

Amie Smith (16:09.411)
going to happen with your traffic flow and your menu development and all the products you're making. But yeah, so it's like we had to move some things over and squeeze the 60 quart mixer in the corner. And so we've kind of redesigned the kitchen a couple of times, like moving some equipment around. But it's been kind of fascinating when you think about it from a business development standpoint. Like if I knew

how everything was gonna sell. Like if we had the same menu in the old location, for example, and we were doing the same things, I could have known specifically how to lay everything out on what was gonna work and what wasn't, but we were trying new things like even a...

a donut machine. had these little Orbitz donuts, you know, on a thing. It was like a show because it reminded me of this flea market when I grew up in New Jersey. They had these donuts on the line and I was determined when we were in a new location, you know, have a little Orbitz donut machine running and, know, the electrical for that, having to install a hood and a fire suppression and all these things for this donut machine.

in our donut window, that took up a huge amount of space. And then I'm going to fast forward and give you a spoiler. We're not doing them anymore. So I needed the hood anyway for the stove, but I ended up getting a much bigger one, not only for, you know.

Kimberly Houston (17:27.008)
Right.

Kimberly Houston (17:36.24)
Amie Smith (17:46.625)
I'd say investing in the building structure properly because you want to do it while you're under construction. So I was like, I'm just going to make it this big because you don't want to have to go back and make it bigger if you do a smaller one. So it wasn't all for nothing.

Kimberly Houston (17:50.072)
Thank you.

Kimberly Houston (17:57.218)
night.

Amie Smith (18:00.921)
We're not doing those donuts anymore, but how that space has been rearranged since then, know, making it more of a cake station and kind of like moving our ingredient bins and things like that. So it's been an interesting evolution of let's say the setup of the business and how it runs and what we've started with and what we're doing now.

I'm sorry. I just had a little sidebar. Yeah, so doing the kitchen design was not inherently, you know, simple, I guess, as it would have been if we had done the same thing in both locations. So.

Kimberly Houston (18:31.246)
Yep.

Kimberly Houston (18:53.134)
I think the question I would have for you is would you do it again?

Amie Smith (18:58.435)
Would I do what again? Build another location?

Kimberly Houston (18:59.726)
Like the whole journey of like the changing of the career, going from one thing that you were doing into baking. I did the same thing. And so I fully got that, but I did it because I wanted to see my children and I was never seeing them when I was working retail. And so going to culinary school in my thirties was kind of like everybody else is a teenager. I don't know how this is going to work out. Like what does this look like for us? And having to like work.

through am I going to open a bakery? What is the location going to look like? All those different things. And I did it for 10 years and it was lovely. And then I retired. And I was like, you know, if I had to go back, I think I would still do it. I don't know that I would change anything about it, good or bad. And so I like to ask people like, would you do it again?

Amie Smith (19:38.275)
Mm-hmm.

Amie Smith (19:45.337)
Thank

Amie Smith (19:49.719)
I would say the answer would be yes, because I'd still be in the same.

thought process of like, got to do this to kind of get it out of my system and passion. can't see that being any different. Everybody that knew that I was going to be doing this who had already had the business and, you know, sold their business thought I was crazy. They knew what I was getting into, but it's like anything. If you haven't done it yourself.

Kimberly Houston (20:06.05)
Mm-hmm.

Amie Smith (20:24.889)
I listened to everybody and I knew it was going to be tough, but I had to see it for myself and do it for myself. So yeah, sure, I would do it again. I would probably change a lot of things, but now I have the wisdom. But I could tell you that I would not open another location.

So that is one thing I am positive. I don't even know how people have more than one location. I really cannot process or understand that whatsoever. I know people have 30 locations or seven. Literally, this one location takes every fiber of my being, and I just can't even imagine managing something else. So I like to keep it to one.

Kimberly Houston (20:50.99)
Okay.

Kimberly Houston (20:59.726)
Yeah.

Amie Smith (21:15.159)
I know I'm not opening another one.

Kimberly Houston (21:15.47)
Well, that's okay. People will come visit you at this one. And it's super fun. Exactly. I love that. from where you started with your bakery, and at this point that means we have experienced COVID, we've experienced the ups and downs in the economy. Like right now everybody's looking at the tariffs on the supplies that you may have had imported things of the sort.

Amie Smith (21:20.473)
destination.

Amie Smith (21:41.667)
Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Houston (21:44.846)
As you look over the time that you've had your bakery, what industry trends have you seen come in and go? Like how you started with donuts, you know, you don't have them anymore. What things are you seeing that have evolved that kind of made you go, huh, I never thought that like this type of thing wouldn't. And even like if we think about the donut part of it.

While you built it with the intention of having this particular thing and then later on you were like, this isn't really serving us in this season. How'd you get to that point? Like how did you work through being okay with letting go of building out to start something and then doing something different?

Amie Smith (22:29.209)
I think some of the things that we decided to abandon really were from the fallout of COVID. That happened about eight months after we moved into this location. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So here's the good news. We had intended to keep our other location.

and just use it as a retail outpost. since my lease was not renewed, that was the best gift I ever got in hindsight. when COVID hit, I had to, I mean, was, anybody who was running this business during COVID, like you could almost have like the telepathic thoughts, know, it was just.

Kimberly Houston (23:22.179)
Yes.

Amie Smith (23:24.889)
It's just unbelievable. our season starts July 1st. Really, Memorial Day to Labor Day is what we consider it. But July 1st, it is full on. And I think.

after like the first week of July, my chef gave her notice and sort of blindsided me with the notice. I hadn't seen that coming. And then someone was going on maternity leave, which I expected. their their departure coincided, you know, at the same time. This is we were like right in season. And then my house manager gave her notice shortly after that. And those were my three core people who all left literally in season. So

Kimberly Houston (24:01.901)
Yep.

Amie Smith (24:10.043)
I was scrambling to hire, you know, to their production bake.

Kimberly Houston (24:17.218)
Yeah.

Amie Smith (24:18.111)
managed the business in the office and I was working some crazy 14 to 16 hours a day. It was probably the worst time I've ever had since I opened the business. But, you failure wasn't an option. We just made a huge investment and I was not going I was not going to let the ship go down like the Titanic. And that's what honestly it felt like staying afloat was really a challenge. So we had to decide real quick, you know,

Kimberly Houston (24:40.577)
Yeah.

Amie Smith (24:48.176)
All right, we have no people. Like, labor situation was like a nightmare.

you know, that was easy to say, OK, well, we're not making this anymore. We're not making that anymore. Let's get rid of this. Like anything that required a lot of ingredients, training, like it's just like, all right, we got to simplify. And then one of the good things that came out of it is we decided, all right, what's going to help us stay afloat and what else can we make in place of that or what else can we offer? So we had like a lot of places did, you know, a bake at home or entrees and things like that.

Kimberly Houston (24:59.438)
Okay.

Kimberly Houston (25:18.894)
Thank

Amie Smith (25:25.893)
So our grab and go business, you know, went up quite a bit. Now it's very interesting because right now the last in the last year, a lot of bakery owners I've been speaking to have been talking about how you need to do the savory, right? And we've always been doing savory from day one. And really, that wasn't my intention when I started in the old location while we were under construction. And it said opening soon on the door, like people were coming in

Kimberly Houston (25:41.91)
Mm-hmm.

Amie Smith (25:55.803)
and all day like, you know, curious. But also the first question they would ask is if I was gonna have sandwiches. And they, I was never gonna have sandwiches.

Kimberly Houston (25:58.353)
huh.

Amie Smith (26:07.725)
And then after I got asked every day, multiple times a day, if I was going to have sandwiches, I turned to my staff that I was hiring. We were all waiting to open, so I had pre-hired people. I like, you know what? I guess what we're doing sandwiches. So we were doing sandwiches from the beginning. And.

Kimberly Houston (26:19.533)
Mm-hmm.

Amie Smith (26:29.229)
there is a demand, have to know your audience, right? There's always been a demand for savory. And I enjoy cooking and I enjoy doing savory pastry and others. So we've done a lot more savory than I ever anticipated, but I kind of like that. And I think that's a smart thing. You need it for the margins. Like I know that we would not be able to keep our doors open if I was only selling cookies and cupcakes.

Kimberly Houston (26:38.968)
Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Houston (26:49.56)
Mm-hmm.

Amie Smith (26:57.667)
There are businesses that do that and do well, here it wouldn't work. I wouldn't be able to pay the labor and overhead to do that. So we do a lot of different things and a lot of it includes savory now.

Kimberly Houston (27:09.378)
Yeah.

Kimberly Houston (27:13.998)
Wow. I think that's really smart though. And I definitely think in a post-COVID world, as I've traveled, I don't know that I've gone into just a straight sweets bakery anymore. Like they have a breakfast or a lunch type of thing, maybe not dinner, but like breakfast or lunch where I'm like, okay, so while I'm out of town, I will go to this bakery in this cute little town and I'm gonna get breakfast and then I'll be back for lunch and I can still get my slice of cake and have it after dinner.

But I hadn't even thought about that, that that is a change that we're seeing in a post-COVID world. The one thing I remember like from 2008 was the onset of cupcake shops. And that was like when they exploded after we had that economic turn because people couldn't afford those large cakes anymore. And so all the celebrations turned to cupcakes. And it's interesting to watch how things change throughout the years.

Amie Smith (27:55.245)
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

Amie Smith (28:04.675)
Hmm?

Kimberly Houston (28:12.354)
based on what's happening in the world. And I don't think people pay attention to that, but I'm a nerd and I do. And I'm like, what are the new trends that we're seeing right now? But savory is one. That's a good one to bring up. So if you were to talk to someone who was maybe already working in one particular field, and I think about this with the number of like government employees losing their jobs right now, right? There are so many people who just now find themselves out of work.

Amie Smith (28:15.705)
First job.

Kimberly Houston (28:39.222)
And if they have always had this like burning desire that man, I really want to be a baker or I want to be a chef or I want to have my own shop. What would you tell them at this phase of their journey?

Amie Smith (28:51.001)
you

Well, I have two things. One, I want to piggyback one other thing onto another thing we do here as classes. And that was also another way to kind of keep our revenues strong and building up our academy. Although when COVID hit, we had a lot of bookings and we lost a lot of money in having to cancel events and things like that. that's another thing that has really taken off after COVID.

Kimberly Houston (28:59.214)
Thank

Kimberly Houston (29:15.278)
Yeah.

Amie Smith (29:22.445)
We've really built the academy and now we have a really good strong business for classes. As far as following your dream or if you're thinking about it, the most important thing is to not listen to anybody that is going to be a dream killer. If you want to do it, you do it. But having said that, you must, must, must do your homework and you must

you must be financially prepared. So that means making sure that you have financial backup to keep yourself running, right? In fact,

Kimberly Houston (30:04.802)
Yeah.

Amie Smith (30:07.353)
All the years that I did my corporate work and consulting, I made very good money. And I had been saving. I called it the, I don't know if I call it like the squirrel account, something like the squirrel away some money. And it was strictly for the bakery. And then I also had personal savings. And I even remember we opened after I purchased the business, it was, we closed the deal like in September of 2014.

Kimberly Houston (30:19.981)
Yeah.

Kimberly Houston (30:34.967)
Mm-hmm.

Amie Smith (30:37.307)
And then we got into the space and we were trying to get open by Halloween and then there were delays and then Thanksgiving and then delays. And finally we have the Christmas stroll here. We opened the night of the Christmas stroll. So we opened in mid-December of 2014 and then the winter season hits on Cape like a couple months.

not even a couple of months. was like, all right, it was like the new year and it was starting to be dead. And I had new staff and I had to like do payroll. Keeping people on full time in the winter when we didn't, we were a new business and we didn't have a lot of sales yet. I mean, it was crazy. I had to go into my personal savings to float payroll because I knew I had to get us through June.

Kimberly Houston (31:04.792)
Yeah.

Kimberly Houston (31:11.619)
Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Houston (31:25.4)
Mm-hmm.

Amie Smith (31:25.945)
to get us to the summer to see what would happen for the summer business. So somebody starting out has to be fully prepared. Because if I didn't think about that or I didn't have the backup, then what could have happened is I would have invested in making this pretty space and then I had run out of money to run the business. So you really have to be prepared financially and you really have to do your homework.

Kimberly Houston (31:39.8)
right.

Kimberly Houston (31:55.318)
I think that that is helpful for people when they don't think about those things. And even to the classes part of it, the pivot that I took in 2020 was online classes. Like I was teaching full-time, I was teaching kids full-time in 2020 when COVID hit and we had to shut down our store. And I was like, okay, well, I had already been thinking we need to move this online anyway. So that was really easy.

Amie Smith (32:01.006)
Yes.

Kimberly Houston (32:25.378)
for me to go, okay, yeah, let's do this online. And for the last, okay, almost five years, that's exactly what I've been doing is teaching people online, writing books, creating blogs, but people are always seeking to learn more. And I think that adding an academy or classes or some sort of education component to the business, it's a great way for people to increase their revenue without as much overhead and without as much labor.

Amie Smith (32:40.622)
Mm-hmm.

Amie Smith (32:52.749)
Right.

Kimberly Houston (32:55.054)
on your body because when you get really good, you can just tell somebody else, okay, so this is what we're going to do. And now I need you to show the class how to do it. I very rarely touch anything whenever I teach a class now. I'm just like, I need a volunteer. Someone come on up to the front and let's show the class how we do it. And people love the hands-on. So I'm glad that you brought that up. I don't think we've talked about that on the podcast yet. So I do think that that is a great way for people to be able to expand a little more and bring in people who might not necessarily.

Amie Smith (32:56.419)
Hmm.

Kimberly Houston (33:24.748)
be really into, like, I don't really eat sugar, but I'm a pastry chef. You know, I'm like, just give me a chocolate chip cookie and I'm good. However, I know how to make all of these other things that people want. And so I think that that is fantastic. As we begin to bring this to a close, if you could give one piece of advice for, let's say, a student, someone who is in culinary school right now,

Amie Smith (33:30.563)
Good.

Amie Smith (33:48.633)
Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Houston (33:51.218)
And they are thinking about what their next steps would be. What would you tell them when it comes to deciding on what their footing in this industry is going to look like?

Amie Smith (34:05.273)
I'm not sure I understand the question fully. What advice I would give a student to get their footing?

Kimberly Houston (34:08.546)
So if you

Kimberly Houston (34:13.964)
Like as they are deciding what they're gonna go into within the industry, what would you tell them?

Amie Smith (34:21.593)
Well, I would, if you're not sure, go work in a few places to figure out what you want to do and what you don't want to do. I knew that I didn't want to work in a restaurant as a pastry chef, but I actually decided to take a stage at a restaurant just to see if I really didn't want to do it. And after that one night, I was like, I definitely don't want to do it. Just wasn't for me.

Kimberly Houston (34:41.88)
Mm-hmm.

Amie Smith (34:51.505)
And you can go and try out different things, know what you're good at, what you love to do. if you go and you try something, you might discover that you like that. you do it. Like, for example, if you'd.

never even thought about working at a restaurant, but you tried it, you might love it, and that might be your direction. And then talk to as many people as you can. Even go shadow. I went to a bakery.

to just watch and observe, to see and ask questions. I knew the chef, and she was working at a bakery in New Jersey and just said I could come and I could ask her questions and see how she did things. that was interesting to observe. So I think that you have to figure out what you like and what you don't like and just follow what your passion is.

So I wanted to add one other thing about the one point about the class if I could. Another selling point about the classes is that it educates the customers as to how we do things here. So we like to show people how we make things so that they can appreciate what goes into the products they're buying.

Kimberly Houston (36:05.144)
Mmm.

Kimberly Houston (36:15.81)
Mm-hmm. That's smart. And then they won't really complain about your price because you understand what all went into this. Yes. I love that. I think that that is so smart and that it kind of gives behind the scenes, but in person. Like now you are a part of this. I love that. I think that is super fantastic. This has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for joining me on the Perfect Rise to New RBA podcast.

Amie Smith (36:21.657)
Correct. Right.

Amie Smith (36:33.465)
Hmm.

Amie Smith (36:42.649)
You're welcome.

Kimberly Houston (36:45.75)
Amy, this has been a pleasure.

Amie Smith (36:48.087)
It's been a pleasure being on. Thank you so much for having me