E112: Baking Isn’t Hard: Taylor Craft on Curiosity & Cake

What does it take to go from actor to baker—and find your flavor voice along the way?

In this episode of The Perfect Rise, host Kimberly Houston sits down with Taylor Craft, a Kendall College grad and career changer who left a 13-year front-of-house career to chase creativity and precision in pastry. Taylor opens up about her culinary school experience post-2020, how flavor theory changed her baking game, and why staying curious is the real secret to success in the industry.

👩‍🍳 Inside this conversation:
 • The truth about culinary school in a post-pandemic world
 • Why curiosity beats perfection every time
 • Balancing creativity, structure, and flavor
 • The myth that baking is “too hard” — debunked
 • Lessons from food media, viennoiserie, and the power of failure

Whether you're just starting out, pivoting careers, or looking for new ways to reignite your culinary fire—Taylor’s story will inspire you to stay curious, embrace mistakes, and keep evolving in and out of the kitchen.

🎧 Listen, learn, and subscribe for more real talk with today’s most dynamic baking pros.

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Chapters

• 1:00 Baby Shower Cakes & a Baking Origin Story
• 3:00 The Pandemic Pivot: From Acting to Pastry
• 7:00 Inside Culinary School: What Worked & What Didn't
• 9:00 The Business Gap in Baking Education
• 11:30 Finding Her Niche: Flavor Theory & Food Waste
• 14:00 Life After Culinary School: Bakery, Catering, & Media
• 17:00 Baking vs Teaching: Discovering Her True Path
• 23:00 The Power of Flavor Theory in Recipe Creation
• 32:30 Debunking the 'Baking is Too Hard' Myth

Transcript

Kimberly Houston (00:00.974)
From baby shower cakes to flavor theory and food media, Taylor Craft has carved a unique path through the culinary world. One rooted in curiosity, creativity, and an unwavering desire to learn. In this episode of The Perfect Rise, we sit down with Taylor, a Kendall College graduate and career changer who spent over a decade in front of house roles before pivoting into pastry in 2023. Now with experience in bakeries, catering, and even food television.

Taylor brings a refreshing, thoughtful lens to the industry, especially when it comes to waste-conscious baking and the science behind flavor. We talk about what it's really like to go to culinary school in a post-pandemic world, how to find your voice in pastry, and why staying curious is the secret ingredient to building a lasting, joyful career in baking. If you've ever felt like you were late to the culinary game or wondered how to turn your love of baking into something more,

This episode will leave you inspired and maybe even ready to experiment with a grapefruit, fennel, and pink peppercorns. Let's get into it.

Kimberly Houston (00:00.953)
Hello friends and welcome back to The Perfect Rise, the RBA podcast where we are telling inspiring stories of several of our members as well as other baking industry professionals. Today I have with me Taylor Kraft. my goodness, I'm so excited for this conversation. How are you doing?

Taylor Craft (00:19.694)
I'm awesome, how are you?

Kimberly Houston (00:21.599)
I am lovely. So we're going to jump right in. My first question for you is, you tell us your origin story? How did you get here?

Taylor Craft (00:25.87)
paper.

Taylor Craft (00:31.298)
Yeah, so when I was a little baby, I used to bake a lot with my dad. So we did the standard yellow cake out of the box and then chocolate frosting out of the little tube can thing. And it was always a second can of that for my dad to just snack on while we were making the cake. And so that was like the origin of my baking. My grandmother used to bake cookies every Christmas. And so I just had that a lot.

Kimberly Houston (00:45.231)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (01:00.558)
growing up and then I kind of shifted as I worked. I worked front of house for a long time and so doing that I always wanted some other creative outlet and it always ended up being baking of some kind and then I would surprise people with know cupcakes or something that I could kind of put my own little creative spin on but didn't really have any idea what I was doing and then it

kind of graduated into baby shower cakes just by happenstance, not intentionally. I just kept making baby shower cakes for people and then realized that I actually maybe wanted to be a baker. And so I was an actor for a long time. 2020 happened, everything shut down. We all kind of reevaluated our lives. And I realized I wasn't super happy doing that. And so kind of on a whim, I applied to culinary school and yeah.

And then that's it. Here we are.

Kimberly Houston (02:00.813)
get it. I fully fully understand that and yeah there were a lot of people who had to figure out like what's next what's in that pivot in 2020 and for me it was closing the bakery and then I started a food photography business so those pivots like you just kind of go back to those things and you're like well let's try this let's see how it works and it didn't work out well.

Taylor Craft (02:14.272)
Interesting.

Taylor Craft (02:18.112)
I love it.

Kimberly Houston (02:26.745)
But I'm glad that you joined us over here. We love that. We need more bakers, particularly people who actually want to bake. And I think that that's been a thing that is not just a job. It's really more of a passion. And so I love that. So let's talk a second about culinary school and making that decision during the pandemic. I remember when I made the decision to go to culinary school, had a dream. I was in a Le Cordon Bleu commercial and I like woke up.

Taylor Craft (02:31.08)
Always.

Taylor Craft (02:46.232)
Yeah.

Kimberly Houston (02:57.101)
and applied to school that day. And the next day I went and took the test and then I started school two weeks later. And it was like, I didn't have to think about it. It was just like, well, if I saw it in a dream, I'm clearly supposed to be doing this with my life. And that's how we got there. Had to drop out of a master's program. I like literally blew up my life to go to culinary school. And that was, you know, 12 years ago. So let's talk about what does culinary school look like in a post pandemic world.

How would you describe your experience for people who may be listening who are kind of like on the edge? And they're like, well, I mean, maybe, but I don't really know. What are your thoughts on that?

Taylor Craft (03:35.662)
So I think that culinary school was important to me because I was looking for an understanding of technique and foundation. So I don't think that you need to go to school in order to gain those things, but if you don't, then you really have to find mentorship somewhere in the industry. And I don't think that that's always as easy as we want it to be. And so going to school for me was

Kimberly Houston (03:59.588)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (04:03.244)
I was just really focused on understanding how baking works, understanding how I could play within it, within the rules, how I could break the rules a little bit. Like I just wanted to understand all of the fundamentals. And so that was important to me. I went through school learning all of that and then was really fortunate to have an instructor who ended up with a whole cohort of career changers. So everyone was like in their thirties and kind of had a

a pretty solid foundation of just baking in general. Everyone did it kind of on their own. And so we were able to play a little bit with flavor, which is really nice, and explore just slightly outside of what the class structure was. And that really helped me because I found where my sweet spot was for pastry and baking, which is very much surrounded around flavor theory. And

and limiting waste within food. And so I, yeah, I just, I think that going to school now, you really have to take advantage of the classes that you're in. It's a really great place to learn and explore and everything is provided for you. And there are a lot of things that you don't have access to yourself. There are ingredients that you may not be able to get.

the quantity of ingredients that you're not going to be able to get just on your own. Everything is expensive. so taking advantage of the materials that you have and the knowledge that you're surrounded by with all of the instructors that you've got is really important. Asking all of the questions, making sure that you are learning and absorbing all of the stuff that they're telling you, because this is the time, you know, it goes super quick. Like the classes were, I think the classes were like,

maybe six weeks long or something, they were just like super fast. And so it's a lot of information thrown at you. You really expected to grasp it all and do it proficiently and then move on to your next class, which is challenging. And so there's just a lot of room to learn and then also a lot of pressure to push yourself. And I think it's important to do that because then when you get into the industry, depending on where you go, if you're going into a restaurant or you're going into a bakery,

Taylor Craft (06:27.042)
that pressure still exists. Like you still have to perform within a certain timeframe. And so you have to push yourself to adapt to learning quickly, to fixing your mistakes quickly, to rethinking something that your plan that didn't quite work out quickly. And so, yeah, I enjoyed the structure of school. think that there were a lot of people who just weren't quite cut out for it because I do agree that you

Kimberly Houston (06:53.636)
Thank

Taylor Craft (06:55.412)
need to love it in order to do it. And I also think in loving it, that's where like that passion is what kind of propels you forward, you know.

Kimberly Houston (07:08.239)
Yeah, totally agree because that was not my experience. I was the career changer. Like I was a single mom of two. I was like 35 when I went to school, but I was surrounded by like 17 year olds and wildly different experience. Well, it was a lot of, this is the first time that they're learning the discipline that it takes to be in culinary school. And I was like, oh, okay, this is.

This is interesting. It was fun. It was fun for sure. But even to the point of using your chefs, like I've been out of school for 12 years and I still talk to my chefs. Like they wouldn't friend anybody on Facebook when we were in school, but I have seen them at industry conferences. They have sent me clients over the years. Like we, we still talk. I went to one of their weddings. Like they were absolutely instrumental.

Taylor Craft (07:36.685)
You

Kimberly Houston (08:06.015)
in the career trajectory that I had, particularly because it didn't look like what everybody thought it was gonna look like. And so knowing that you can go talk to somebody and be like, hey, what are your thoughts on this? Like, you think I should do this or not? And they were just kind of like, well, if you do this, you're never gonna see your children. And I was like, well, we're not gonna do that then. We're not gonna go work in the Four Seasons, that's not gonna happen. We're not gonna go on the Disney cruise ship. Cool, cool, cool, got it. But it was like, you know, if you wanna see your kids go work in a bakery and I know they're not paying you.

Taylor Craft (08:12.279)
Yeah.

Taylor Craft (08:18.158)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (08:26.094)
Yeah.

Kimberly Houston (08:36.559)
to do your externship at the bakery, but make it what you need it to be. And I swear I learned the most on an unpaid externship than anybody who got paid because I was there for like teaching me how to run this business, which they weren't teaching in culinary school back then. I don't know if they do that now, but they definitely weren't teaching us how to run a business.

Taylor Craft (08:46.999)
Yeah.

Taylor Craft (08:57.112)
They don't teach us, I mean, in my program, they didn't teach us that either. And it would have been incredible to learn that. But the way that the degrees were divided up, it was an associate's degree for baking and pastry and then a bachelor's degree for savory. And I think it's a kind of a disservice to everyone in baking and pastry. It feels like you come out of the program and you're just kind of, you're expected to just know like how to start your own.

Kimberly Houston (09:08.175)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (09:26.26)
business and if that's what you want to do it's a longer road because you don't have any of those foundational business classes. There's nothing like you get a quick little overview of it but there's no nothing in depth.

Kimberly Houston (09:40.899)
Yeah, I totally understand, which is why I went back to school and got two more degrees after culinary school to learn how to run a business. I was like, no, they didn't teach me how to run it. They taught me how to make beautiful cakes, but they did not teach me how to run a business. And so I definitely think even like with us doing this podcast and hearing from different people and their experiences, it's still a different side of the industry you don't really have access to just as a regular person.

Like how are you able to talk to this many people about their experiences in the industry? Just on a regular day. That does not happen. And every time I do an interview, I'm just like, wow, didn't even know there was a thing. It is mind blowing for me. So I know it's mind blowing for our audience. So I do, before we jump into flavor theory, because I want to know more. It just, that wasn't a thing when I was in school that I can remember.

and I was like flavor theory? Yes, we're gonna talk about that. But before we get there, I do have a question for you. So you went to culinary school like two years ago, right? Okay, so when you started versus now, do you feel like things are different? Do you feel like your view of the industry is different from just two years ago to now?

Taylor Craft (10:47.009)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (11:02.062)
Yeah, I mean, I don't think that I had a solid understanding of the industry before I went to culinary school. I was in front of house for maybe 13 years. And so I wasn't experiencing the kitchen, you know, in depth, like I would go in the kitchen, but you're not working there. And so I am seeing the end result essentially of the industry by serving tables. And so I, yeah, I just had really no idea what kind of went into anything.

and didn't have an idea of, you know, like the little things like the time management and the organization and, you know, what tools needed to be used for what tasks and how to prioritize your time. And I didn't, I didn't know how to do any of that. So I think just having a better understanding of the industry and now having worked in a couple of different places, I don't ever want to fully understand it because then there's nothing left to learn.

but I do have a bigger handle on the industry now. And I think it's interesting to see how different businesses function while producing similar product. And then I worked, so when I did my internship, I worked at a bakery in Chicago and they were a wholesale bakery as well as they just had a storefront too. And...

Kimberly Houston (12:10.393)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (12:24.12)
kind of understanding some of that operation and really like just working to see what I actually wanted to do and what I didn't want to do. I from the, I mean, from going to culinary school, I knew I didn't want to work in a restaurant. It just isn't for me. I, like I said, worked in restaurants for years and years and years and did not want to work behind the scenes, especially knowing that I would make more money front of house. just didn't, I didn't want to work in the kitchen in a restaurant. So I found a,

love for viennoiserie. I love breakfast pastry. I enjoy bread a lot. And so I'm now working at a different bakery doing that. And then in the interim, I did catering. So it's just kind of like a lot of different aspects of the industry, and that weren't quite restaurant and trying to see what I wanted to do through that. And then doing food media too. And so like that's completely different and not really even baking and pastry anymore. But

The industry is just so much more vast than you really get a chance to understand in culinary school. The track that is provided for you is very much like, you you go to school, you get your internship, you probably stay there. Your internship's at either a bakery or a restaurant. You work your way up. You end up becoming the, you know, sous chef to the executive pastry chef, and then you maybe open your own concept, and then that's your life. And I was like, sounds terrible for me. Like, I just...

Kimberly Houston (13:50.435)
Yep.

Taylor Craft (13:51.47)
There's just, there's nothing wrong with it. It's just absolutely not what I want to do at all. And so I pushed really hard to find other opportunities in recipe development and like things that were on kind of the periphery, I guess, of of that where you're you're finding things that go together, you're making things work as opposed to producing what's already been proven to work, if that makes sense. So I really love the idea of

of the recipe development and of like even food photography I think is awesome and there's just so many other things that you can do within the industry that are not in a restaurant.

Kimberly Houston (14:33.463)
and you'll make more money. A lot.

Taylor Craft (14:34.914)
Yeah, I mean, yeah, and you might be happier too, because a restaurant, like the hours are crazy at a restaurant. The hours are wild at a bakery too, but I like, I go to work at, you know, four or five a.m., but I'm out at one and the sun is out and it's nice outside. Like I could still accomplish some other things in the day. And so for me, it works. I get to like see my wife when I come home instead of like, you know, working these long hours where I'm, you know.

Kimberly Houston (14:48.579)
Yeah.

Taylor Craft (14:58.446)
going into 10 o'clock at night, coming home, going to sleep, and then just getting back up and doing the whole grind again. So I think just finding whatever works for you. I'm also in my mid-30s, like I just don't want to do that anymore. If I was maybe 18 coming out of culinary school, I think that probably would have been great, because why not? What else are you doing? know? So, yeah.

Kimberly Houston (15:19.201)
Exactly. I totally get that. I remember there was one 18 year old in my program who was so excited about going to Vegas for her externship and she stayed. Like she is now an executive pastry chef in Vegas, like living her best life. And I was like, I love that for you. But like at that point I was already 35. Nothing about that is exciting to me. I did not want to be out all times of the night. So I

Taylor Craft (15:38.626)
Incredible.

Kimberly Houston (15:47.331)
That I totally get and I do think that people should realize that I think one of the advantages culinary school gave me was the discipline and that I understand the science of baking. And so that takes you a lot further than you just know how to decorate a cake. Lovely, but like can you tell people why this recipe doesn't work if they live on a top floor of their building?

Taylor Craft (15:55.95)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (16:07.939)
Yes.

Kimberly Houston (16:16.825)
Can you explain to them why things don't work when it's raining outside? Like, do you understand what's going on behind the scenes? And once I realized I understood that and started teaching, that's when I was like, I don't actually want to run a bakery. I just want to teach people.

Taylor Craft (16:34.892)
And me too, that's my end goal too, very similar, yeah.

Kimberly Houston (16:37.837)
Yeah, it's so different because I'm like, everybody can't teach it. Like if you don't understand it, like the very first time that I started teaching at Michael's and our classroom was in the front of the store and it was like 95 degrees outside and everybody's cake started melting. And I was like, okay, yup, no, we need to move the class to the back of the store.

And like nobody inside of that store could understand why I needed some. They were like, put the air conditioners on. It doesn't matter. There's a giant window right here and all of their stuff is melting. And I remember it because when I was in culinary school, I found out I had hot hands. And so I had to decorate inside of the cooler because I had no idea that you could melt the frosting in your hands because your hands were hot.

Taylor Craft (17:28.568)
Yep.

Kimberly Houston (17:34.977)
And so, but if I hadn't gone to culinary school, I wouldn't have been able to walk other people through that later. And I was like, no, like all these things are starting to make sense. Like, yeah, go run your hands under cold water or go grab some ice and run your hands through the ice. Like let your frosting relax for a second and then we'll mix it up and come back to it. But if you can't explain that to someone, it is really difficult for you to be able to go a little bit further. And I don't think that people think about that aspect of it. When you, that.

Nowhere in my culinary school journey was I like, yeah, let me pay attention to stuff like this. Had no idea. I didn't even know hot hands existed. You know what I mean? Like that just wasn't the thing. And I just remember being in the room like, I'm gonna fail. And he was like, you're not gonna fail. Go get in the cooler. And I was like, what? And he was like, go in the cooler. And I think we were doing chocolate. And he's like, go finish in the cooler. You just gotta work faster, but go finish in the cooler. And then I got 100. And I was like, okay, love you.

Taylor Craft (18:11.882)
Yeah.

Taylor Craft (18:21.645)
Yeah.

Kimberly Houston (18:32.951)
I've learned this is great. This is wonderful. So if you are thinking about going to culinary school, they're definitely pluses to the structure and the, you know, make sure your elbow is into your side when you are doing things so that you don't hurt yourself. Like all of those little things that still matter to me over a decade later. It has its pluses. It just, it does. I didn't regret my journey, but I do know a lot of people who didn't go to culinary school in absence.

Taylor Craft (18:40.664)
Yeah.

Taylor Craft (18:50.167)
Yeah.

Taylor Craft (18:58.882)
Yeah, because you don't need it. You just need to find a place that's willing to teach you.

Kimberly Houston (19:04.159)
Yeah, and be teachable.

Taylor Craft (19:06.186)
And be teachable. my gosh, yes, please be teachable.

Kimberly Houston (19:08.321)
Yeah, I think that is a big thing in the industry is that we've become so stuck on what we see on TikTok. That is like, and when I was in culinary school, I feel like our equivalent to TikTok was chopped. It was the food network, right? Like these people were just making things up and doing them. And they were like, my God, this is great. And then it's like, y'all realize that's for TV.

Taylor Craft (19:29.111)
Yeah.

Taylor Craft (19:33.546)
It is for TV, but I will say having worked on a Food Network show, they do have to come up with their own concepts. so it is like, when I was in culinary school, I actually thought it was really surprising the amount of people that didn't watch food TV. I think that like, yeah, it's a competition show. There's like some drama and it's definitely like for TV. But if you're watching the way that people think,

Kimberly Houston (19:41.871)
Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Houston (19:57.401)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (20:00.756)
on those shows, it's actually something that you can learn from. I just have always watched competition shows that are food related and Survivor, but that's a whole other thing. so I just really appreciate, especially for the baking shows, where not all of it, like it's baking, so you have to have recipes or some stuff that they do know ahead of time. But just watching the thought process with people and the ingredients that they've been given and the flavor pairings again that like happen.

that you wouldn't think work, but then somehow work because they understand fundamentally the basics of how to, how food works. And so I think those shows are fantastic. Not all of them are great, but in general, because I think that it helps with creativity, just creativity alone. You're not learning a ton about like technique or any of that stuff, because there just isn't a lot of focus on it for those shows. You might catch some stuff here and there, but

Kimberly Houston (20:57.443)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (20:59.982)
the creativity from these people who are under time pressure, who are doing things quickly, who have to adjust really quickly, they've got to figure out how to make something work that suddenly doesn't work when they've done it a million times. Like all of that stuff is awesome to watch because it's, for me, it fuels my creativity where I'm like, oh, I didn't even think that those two things would go together.

Oh, I wonder if I could do X, Y, and Z with that instead. Oh, you know, I have like in my pantry this thing, maybe I could. So like it just, I don't know. I think that any exposure to anyone else's brain is a real gift. And I think being able to watch food shows like that, that are geared towards something that you're interested in, whether it's savory or, you know, pastry, those things are always gonna.

be impactful some way. Like you'll have it kind of in your brain somewhere and if you get the creativity, if you get the ability to be creative in your own job, those things might come back into play.

Kimberly Houston (22:01.955)
For sure, all the time. And I trained the kids for Food Network prior to the pandemic. And so that in itself, first of all, kids in the kitchen, that's a whole different type of learning experience. But the things that these kids think of, and you're like, I don't know if that's gonna go together. And they're like, well, there's only one way we're gonna find out, Chef. I'm like, okay, well, let's see what happens. And that was something I had to learn was to let them explore.

Taylor Craft (22:03.074)
Yeah.

Taylor Craft (22:13.718)
Wild. Wild.

Kimberly Houston (22:32.311)
Right? Like I need you to explore why you're in my kitchen before you get to that kitchen on that show. Cause you don't have time to be making stuff up in the moment. So like we need to know some fundamentals and some basics of things and understanding how do you balance your flavors. Maybe we just didn't call it flavor theory. Definitely taught kids how to balance their flavors because they all want like every child that I ever trying to go on any type of show, whether it was baking or culinary, they want.

Taylor Craft (22:43.106)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (22:47.586)
Yes.

Taylor Craft (22:53.666)
Yeah.

Taylor Craft (23:02.478)
incredible.

Kimberly Houston (23:02.507)
And it was because they understood in the back of their minds, well, if I do this and this and this, this is what's going to happen. Right? Like that was just, it was real concrete in there. But I'm like, listen, you can do your thing, but when you go do this, keep this in the back of your mind. Right? Like teeny tiny bits of salt or some sugar. Like if you taste it and it doesn't work, like how do, how do I balance the flavors? And their parents are always like, yeah, I would have never known to tell my kid to do that. And I'm like culinary school.

We had to learn about why things, why would you put something spicy in a dessert? That never made sense to me. And I was like, why do we want hot dessert? Why would want this? And they're like, I know it doesn't make sense to you, but taste it. And then you're like, it's not hot at all. Like these flavors balance out against each other, which I thought was super interesting. So maybe we did do flavor theory. I don't know. Maybe we just didn't call it that back in the day.

Taylor Craft (23:40.11)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (23:52.558)
Yeah.

Taylor Craft (24:01.164)
Yeah, you just didn't call it that. But it's essentially that. I think like my the favorite, the best thing I think that I've made, or the best thing I made, I guess, in culinary school, we had a dining room class just like at the end of your program, depending on what program you're in. And so you get to conceptualize your own dish. And I was very set on doing something seasonal, was kind of in the winter ish. And I just really love using herbs.

And so I tend to use herbs in almost everything that I cook. think they're just an easy way to brighten your food without needing to do a whole lot. And so I ended up making a dish that was grapefruit and fennel, and then I added pink peppercorns to it. And so I just had, I had a really great instructor then who

Kimberly Houston (24:40.153)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (24:52.398)
fed into that for me because I was really trying to figure out what to do that would be interesting but not too crazy that people wouldn't order it and something that still felt approachable but like maybe a little bit exciting and so I ended up doing a meal foie and did a grapefruit pastry cream and I was challenged because grapefruit is a really hard flavor to get into anything and so I was like I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna figure it out.

Kimberly Houston (25:13.741)
Yeah!

Taylor Craft (25:19.338)
And so I did a grapefruit pastry cream. I took the rinds from the grapefruit after I juiced them and then candied them. The whole thing, like with the pith and everything, because it was so thick. And I was like, I think that I could just use these as like big candies. And so I candied the whole thing. I tossed them in a sugar that I mixed with the pink peppercorn and then had a little bit of meringue on it and then made a fennel oil. And I think the whole thing was awesome. And I was so proud of myself because it was

something that I just really set my mind to it. If I have an idea, I will think about it for weeks. will write about it. I'll like draw out examples for myself and how I can put the pieces together. I just enjoy the challenge of figuring out how to make something work because if I want to put it into a dish, I just feel like I can figure it out for the most part.

Kimberly Houston (26:06.543)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (26:15.072)
And honestly, if I can't figure it out and I failed to do it, it's kind of exciting too. I actually enjoy failure. I think that I learned the best from it. And I think that sometimes we're too scared to fail. And I understand being nervous to fail, especially when you're, you know, in a bakery, you're in a restaurant setting and it's everything that you're doing is depending on like your product and you need to have something to sell. So I understand the failure being scary.

Kimberly Houston (26:22.809)
Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Houston (26:38.585)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (26:44.558)
I also don't think you can learn from never failing. Yeah, you like you know how to do it. You've proven that you're proficient. But I don't think that you get a really deep understanding of why something doesn't work if you've tried it a certain way and it fails. You know, I just, there's a reason there's a reason for everything I ask why a lot and I think that sometimes it is taken.

Kimberly Houston (27:01.912)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (27:10.498)
a little combatively, but I'm also, I'm just curious. Like, I just want to understand, like, you're doing something that I didn't think to do, so why, why are you doing it that way? Like, obviously it works for you, so why? Like, just tell me, I want to know. Why are you your ganache that way? Why do you put that in your ganache? Why are you using corn syrup in your ganache? What are you doing that for? There's a reason, right? You know the reason, right?

Kimberly Houston (27:33.047)
And there should be, and I think that's the piece is that, like I homeschooled my kids and so they got five Y's. After five, I'm stopping you, right? But they got up to five because they're curious about everything. And so it would be, okay, well, why did you do that? And okay, but why? And so now that my oldest, he's a traveling actor. And so now he's on assignment in Oregon and he's like, I am so glad you let me ask you why.

because now I'm just in the kitchen making up stuff. And he's like, and it's delicious. And I'm like, yeah, cause you understand why. We did certain things in certain orders, right? Like even if you think about like a Thanksgiving meal, that seems like the easiest thing to explain this example. Like you have to time out what you're cooking when you cook it so that everything comes together at one time, right? And I don't know if people actually.

Taylor Craft (28:04.952)
I love it.

Kimberly Houston (28:28.857)
Think about that on that level, that this is the same thing that happens in a restaurant or in a bakery. Like if everybody at the table wants their food at the same time, the time management of all of this has to work in a way that it needs to work, which also means your creativity is kind of sped up. Whereas like you need to think on your feet. You don't have time to figure that out, which is why I was a person who, I don't think they still let y'all do this, but we used to be able to like schedule time in the lab.

Taylor Craft (28:45.998)
Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Houston (28:59.181)
where you could just like go into the kitchen at school and work on something. If you needed a chef there with you, like I think I was, I got my first wedding cake before I finished school. And I was like, help me because the number of people, it needed to feel like 150 people. And I was like, y'all, I can't even put this in my oven at the house. So like,

Taylor Craft (29:16.078)
I'm not kidding.

Kimberly Houston (29:28.879)
Can I use the school? And they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. And so like I scheduled time to be in the lab and they were like coming in like different chefs at whatever time they were in on their shift. And they were just asking me questions because every tier was a different flavor. And the frostings were different. And because I was in culinary school, you know, we're stuck on a Swiss meringue buttercream. And like everything was so...

Taylor Craft (29:44.613)
my gosh.

Kimberly Houston (29:55.065)
Pastry, pastry, pastry. There was a pastry cream in the cake. Like there was so much, I never did it again, but there was so much happening on that very first wedding cake. And they would just be like, okay, so here's how you transport this. Here's like the temperature that this needs to stay at. Like you're gonna leave this here and freeze it overnight. But how far do you live from here? Okay, so when you come back, you need dry ice and a cooler in order to make sure that these things happen. And I'm like,

How would you ever know this? If you weren't around people who could walk you through it, and that feels like one of those scenes where it's like, okay, I could have tried that on my own at home. And I did. Like in my brain, there was no way I could make a wedding cake ahead of time. That didn't make sense to me. So was I up all night long making a four-tiered wedding cake? Yes. Decorating a four-tiered wedding cake.

afraid of my handwriting on the side of the cake and I remember using, I printed out their monogram and then I used a safety pin and like poked it into the frosting and then had to come back and trace over that with a different color frosting. When I think about baby Kimberly in the kitchen, I'm just like, girl, you made your life so hard. It did not take all that. It didn't take all of that.

Taylor Craft (31:06.286)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (31:20.12)
So hard.

Kimberly Houston (31:24.484)
But how?

Taylor Craft (31:24.546)
But if you had known, like if you had the confidence from the knowledge, it wouldn't have taken all of that.

Kimberly Houston (31:31.459)
It wouldn't, but we didn't have what people have now, right? Like we literally just have Food Network. Like there was no Instagram yet. Like none of this existed. And so I think the only thing we had was Craftsy. That was it. And that's before Craftsy had its own channel. This is really dating me. But like we didn't have any of these things where you could very quickly look at something and be like, that's all I have to do. No, I had to figure it out. And I was like, girl.

Taylor Craft (31:35.116)
Yeah. Yeah.

Taylor Craft (31:43.98)
Hmm.

Taylor Craft (31:55.886)
Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Houston (31:59.415)
You just didn't. So every time that it'll come up this weekend, because that was 13 years ago this weekend, or I'm just like, no, ma'am. Never. We never did it again. Did I make more giant wedding cakes? Yeah. But it just didn't take all that it took on that first one. And I feel like you have those moments in like within your journey where you're like, man, I can't believe that like I had to go through that in order to figure out a better way.

to do things and then end up on the other side of it. So that leaves me kind of, that's a perfect segue, I didn't know that was gonna happen, that's a perfect segue into my next question for you. So I ask every, I've started asking people this question because I love it so much. What is a misconception about the culinary industry that you want to debunk?

Taylor Craft (32:52.534)
a misconception about the industry? I was thinking about this question and I feel like I don't know what people think about the industry because I'm surrounded by people who are in it. I think maybe that it's hard. think and just generally that like baking and pastry specifically is hard, that baking is so technical, that it's unapproachable, that

Like you can't just wing it and hear me out. Yes, I know that there are techniques within baking and pastry and recipes that need to be followed. There are ratios. There's definitely a science to it, 100%. But if you know how to read and measure, it's not that hard. I think that the challenge for people comes in not knowing.

And so when you don't know how to do something, it's really hard to try and do it without any knowledge. Once you have even the basic foundation of knowledge, like if you're making cookies and you're like, these cookies are so hard, they don't come out right. Like every time I make them, they spread, get one big old sheet of cookie. All you have to do is put your cookies in the fridge. You know, like if you know that, then it's not as hard. doesn't feel as overwhelming and unapproachable.

Kimberly Houston (34:14.564)
Right.

Taylor Craft (34:19.894)
I think that telling people or even people thinking that baking is hard is, I just don't like that generalization. I think that it can be challenging, but it depends on what you're doing. know, like making a whole wedding cake is a lot more complicated than making a dozen cookies and making a dozen cookies might be more complicated than making like American buttercream. You know, like it's not.

It just, you know, you're choosing what you're making and what it's for. even without understanding the nuance of like how to pair a buttercream with a flavor of cake, with like the fillings and you don't need to understand any of that to know what tastes good and what you like. And so I think it doesn't have to be as unapproachable because even if you're taking a box cake mix and making a cake, like there are instructions you still have to follow.

It's still done with a ratio. You're still measuring out oil. You're still measuring out eggs. You're still doing other steps. And so you don't have to do all of it, of course, but then the cake comes out of the oven and then what do you do with it? know, then you still got to frost it. And if you want to make your own frosting and that's a different step that you have to do. So I think like when we talk about baking as being complicated, it's like people are thinking five star dining, you know, Michelin.

Kimberly Houston (35:36.121)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (35:39.07)
And I don't, not thinking that, you know, it's all approachable. You can do any part of it. You just have to understand what you're doing.

Kimberly Houston (35:50.487)
Agreed. That I totally agree with. That's so, no one has said that yet for that question. I love that. That baking is not hard. I agree. I say that all the time and people look at me like I'm crazy. And I'm like, it's not.

Taylor Craft (36:02.09)
It's not, it's not. It's yeah, I mean, you just, it's nuanced. It definitely is nuanced and they're, you know, if we're talking about like baking versus decorating, those are two different things too. So, you know, you can definitely make something that tastes really, I've been to bakeries where people have their own business and they make things that taste really great, do not have decorating skills. And so, and that's fine. Do you eat decoration and taste the difference? No, you don't.

Kimberly Houston (36:07.896)
it is.

Kimberly Houston (36:14.648)
Yes, they are.

Kimberly Houston (36:28.815)
No.

Taylor Craft (36:29.728)
No, you're eating something that tastes really good and I would much rather eat something that tastes good than something that looks really great and tastes like, you know, not good.

Kimberly Houston (36:36.693)
Yes, that was rampant when I was in school. That was such a thing that like people were, you had the decorating skills, but then the cake was nasty. And that was like the thing that kept me in business for a decade was that my cakes weren't nasty. And I was like, who are y'all buying cake from that doesn't taste good? How are you messing this up? And people are like, they just, it's so hard. And I was like, when you don't understand how to make things work,

Taylor Craft (36:47.427)
Yeah.

Taylor Craft (36:58.934)
It's crazy.

Kimberly Houston (37:06.784)
everything doesn't have to be pound cake in order for you to decorate it. You can have a fluffy wedding cake, like that's a thing. You can have a fluffy wedding cake even if it's multiple tiers. Do you know how to structure it? As long as those tiers aren't touching, you're okay. But like, do you know how to do that? And I think that became, cause I was again, very curious. I don't understand. My cakes are always soft and fluffy and have a nice crumb. Why are these cake hard?

Taylor Craft (37:33.27)
And how are yours not why are yours not nice.

Kimberly Houston (37:35.791)
What are you doing? Like what's happening? And then I started asking people. I'm just like, so walk me through your process. And I feel like when you tell someone that, then you can very easily pinpoint, oh, well don't do that. Do this instead. Just try it. Just try it and see. And then let me know if it works. Like that's how I used to get, just try to see. You don't have to do it. Just, what are you gonna lose? Nothing. Okay, so test it out and then let me know. And then you're like, oh my God, it worked. I know. I understand.

Taylor Craft (37:41.774)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (37:55.245)
Mm-hmm.

Kimberly Houston (38:02.979)
because this is how things work in baking. But again, that's the knowledge and being curious in discovering and really going beyond the textbook. Like for me, I still have my culinary books, they're back there. And I'm like, I still have all the notes from school 12 years ago. Well, 13 at this point. 13 years ago, I still have my notes because there are moments where I'm like, why is this not working? Even after being doing it for so long. And I'm like, okay.

Taylor Craft (38:12.707)
Yeah.

Taylor Craft (38:24.11)
Yeah.

Kimberly Houston (38:32.399)
That's what's happening. Okay cool cool cool. All right so you know it's too dry. There's not enough water. There's too much moisture in the air. That's always a big one being in Atlanta. And I'm like okay that we can we can make this work. We put a little less water in it because it won't stop raining outside right? Like but understanding those things that also comes with time. It comes with giving yourself grace and

Taylor Craft (38:33.4)
Yeah.

Taylor Craft (38:41.89)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Craft (38:49.432)
Yeah.

Taylor Craft (38:56.928)
exploration.

Kimberly Houston (38:59.181)
You know, it's just like, okay, you can do this and believing that you can do this, I think is probably the hardest part for a lot of people. Is there just like, it didn't work? Great, it didn't work for me either. I went to culinary school because I wanted to be the next great American cookie company. Like that was my goal. That was the whole reason I went. I was like, I'm gonna have a cookie studio that is gonna outdo these people and I gotta be on my cookie final.

Taylor Craft (39:26.67)
you

Kimberly Houston (39:27.149)
I have never cried harder in my life because what do you mean I gotta be on my cookie? And I, like my chef was so tickled and she was like, Kimberly, it's okay. It's not okay, ma'am. It's, I'm the cookie, it's not okay. I don't think you understand. Like the whole reason I'm here is for this. And that day she looked at me and said, well, let's figure out why you gotta be.

Taylor Craft (39:48.75)
Yeah.

Kimberly Houston (39:54.671)
And so then it became the reverse engineering and the studying. Did you cream enough? Did you cream it too much? Do you understand what it needs to sound like inside of them? Like I had to tap into senses I didn't know I needed to tap into in order to make it be what it was. Now she did not change my grade. I still got a B in her class and it's the only B I got in culinary school. But I learned the lesson of being like, okay.

Here's how we reverse engineer whatever the situation is and it made me a better person I think. So as we get ready to bring this to a close, I'd like to ask everyone before we close out, what is one piece of wisdom or encouragement you would like to share with our audience?

Taylor Craft (40:38.124)
Honestly, we've covered it multiple times. It's to stay curious. think it's the industry can just get super boring and monotonous really quickly, which feels crazy because it's so vast. But it's just like if you're doing the same thing every day and you kind of understand how to do it and then you're not asking questions, you're not wondering about ingredients, you're not like visiting farmers markets and looking at different kinds of vegetables and fruits that you've never seen before or worked with.

Kimberly Houston (40:49.7)
Yeah.

Taylor Craft (41:05.678)
If you're not on social media and looking at what other people are doing, if you're not watching TV shows and seeing what people are kind of coming up with all the random things that they're being thrown in these challenges and like wondering if you can, I don't know, swap out one fizzy drink for another and a recipe. It's just like, if you lose the curiosity and lose the wonder, then it just gets so boring. And so I think keeping yourself challenged.

comes with staying curious. I just always want to know more. I always want to see if I can accomplish something with less, see if I can use all of a fruit in something, see if I can maybe make a pastry cream out of something random, see if these flavors go together. Like I made a dish with cherries and curry powder once that was really good. Like, I just want to know if something will work because we're in America, but we are not.

culinary destination. You know, there are so many other cultures outside of ours that are doing so many other things. Their flavors are, their pairings of flavors are just things that we would just wouldn't consider go together. So anyway, staying curious, knowing that there's just more than your immediate surroundings, your city, your state, your country, like there are other things. So you got to explore it.

Kimberly Houston (42:28.693)
I that. I think that is the perfect piece of advice to leave our audience with. Taylor, thank you so much for joining me on this episode of The Perfect Rise. We'll talk to you guys next time.

Taylor Craft (42:40.162)
Thank you.