Giles Walger | OODAx

What if breaking into the federal market didn’t have to be a bureaucratic nightmare?

In this episode of Amplified CEO, Richard Stroupe sits down with Giles Walger — retired Marine, former AWS mission engineering lead, and founder of OODAx — to talk about what it really takes for startups to succeed in the world of defense and government contracting.

From warfighter needs at the edge to the pain points of procurement, Giles shares lessons from his military career, his time at Amazon Web Services, and his work advising early-stage tech companies. If you’re building solutions for the federal space — or even thinking about it — this episode is your playbook for moving faster, staying compliant, and actually getting funded.

https://www.oodax.net/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/giles-walger/

Co-Produced by Topsail Insider and Cape Fear Ventures
Edited by Coastal Carolina Network

To learn more about Amplified CEO, visit www.topsailinsider.com/aceo
To learn more about Topsail Insider, visit www.topsailinsider.com.
To learn more about Richard Stroupe, or Cape Fear Ventures, please contact Christa at (910) 800-0111 or christa@topsailinsider.com.

Transcript

ACEO Ep 14 - Giles Walger

[00:00:00] 

[00:00:00] Christa: Welcome to the Amplified CEO with VC and serial entrepreneur, Richard Stroupe with today's guest, Giles Walger, a retired marine and former program lead Amazon Web Services, where he supported Mission Engineering for defense and intelligence. Now, as a founder of OODAx, he helps early-stage companies break into the federal space by bridging the gap between startups and government [00:00:30] contracting.

[00:00:31] Richard: Giles, good morning. 

[00:00:32] Giles: Hey, good morning, Richard. Thanks for having me. 

[00:00:34] Richard: Thank you so much for taking the time to come visit us here in this beautiful podcast studio. 

[00:00:40] Giles: It's, it's, it is awesome. I, it's my first podcast, so I appreciate the invite and the opportunity to, to learn more from you, answer your questions, and, uh, present, uh, the launch of my company, OODAx, and 

[00:00:52] Richard: likewise, you know, always enjoy our conversations.

[00:00:55] Richard: Um, matter of fact, I know we met yesterday for some beers and we were kind of like [00:01:00] pre-gaming today. Every time we get together, I always remember the first time I heard about you. Um, and I'm, I'm not sure if I've ever shared the story with you, but of course your wife Courtney, was my GC at Saltwater and I would come down, you know, every two to three weeks working with her and Brandon and a few others on, on site, and.

[00:01:26] Richard: Of course, the question always comes up, what do you do? Like, you [00:01:30] know, I mean obviously we know you're in construction, but like, what do you do? Like you live in Northern Virginia and da da da da. And of course you open up a little bit and say, ah, you know, I did some work with the federal government. I work in the Amazon world and did some cloud stuff and databases and software.

[00:01:46] Richard: And she's like, oh, my husband does that too. And I'm like, really? What's he do? And then of course, this is when you were at, uh, Amazon, no, yeah, you were at Amazon and then you went to Big [00:02:00] Bear. And I'm like, yeah, you know, big Bear was a customer of ours at Sequoia and or I, you know. And um, so she's like, oh, you gotta meet him.

[00:02:09] Richard: You gotta meet him. I'm like, okay, cool. So then of course I'm talking to David, our mutual buddy, and, uh, said, Hey, what do you know about this, this Giles guy? You know, I mean, he sounds really cool. Like he's a tech guy like me, you know, and I said. The first thing he is like, is don't f with him, man. He's like, what?[00:02:30] 

[00:02:30] Richard: What questions do you want to know? Just don't mess with him. He's like, no, no, no. I just, you know, Courtney said I should hook up with him and have a good sit down, talk about technology and work in the government and, you know, and that we have a shared interest in that area. He's like, oh yeah, he's the best.

[00:02:44] Richard: He's the best. You should meet him. I can't believe you haven't met him yet. How many years you been here? I was like, I know. He lives here. So it was just, it's always funny to kind of, 

[00:02:53] Giles: it is, it's such a small world. This is something special about this community. Um, yeah, we, it's, it's a [00:03:00] vibrant growing ecosystem down here in Eastern North Carolina and, you know, I was blessed to meet my wife and, um, you know, I'm remarried.

[00:03:09] Giles: Uh, we have two, two children, so, mm-hmm. She told me all about you and, uh, that she's working on, on the hotel and the trials and tribulations with that. Oh my God. I'm sure stories, the successes that you had with the, the first hotel and then Yeah. You know, moving, uh, to build saltwater and, uh, the successes you're obviously having there.

[00:03:28] Giles: Um, but obviously, you know, I [00:03:30] met David, um, you know, early on in his, his, his, uh, his landing here in this area. Yeah. Uh, from the south. Right. And when he moved up, uh, I was able to meet his family, our kids, you know, my older kids played together with his kids at times. And yeah, he's just a great guy and, um, you know, his mutual friend, so I'm glad he was said good, great things about me.

[00:03:54] Giles: Um, yeah. Yeah, I don't, I try to be easygoing and friendly. Um, you know, my past in the [00:04:00] military is my past and I, I really enjoyed that time. Mm-hmm. Um, it has set me up for success and what I'm doing now, but, um. You know, I think it's one of those things in the power of the network, right? Mm-hmm. Our community, when we talk about community, what you're doing with this podcast and, um, and this area and the, the rapid growth we're seeing in Eastern North Carolina.

[00:04:20] Giles: So mm-hmm. The fact that my wife's in construction is kinda really opened my eyes to, you know, where technology can go. Mm-hmm. [00:04:30] Uh, in this area for sure. Now, are you originally from Eastern North Carolina? I'm not. I'm from Baltimore. Um, okay. You know, swore never to move back there. I still have family there.

[00:04:39] Giles: Um, my best friend's, my brother, he just placed up to the Boston area. Okay. He is a doctor up there. Um, my two sisters are still in, uh, Baltimore. Both my parents are deceased. Okay. You just still travel back and forth to see? I go up there all the time. So whenever I'm in the National Capital region for a client or to see, [00:05:00] you know, government, customer, um, or, you know, to Relink with some of my old network mm-hmm.

[00:05:06] Giles: I'll, I'll go up there and I'll, I'll either try to spend a dinner with them or spend the night or spend some time with, see both, both my sister's families. Yeah. There's, um, I used to travel to Columbia area, uh, twice a week. Oh yeah. You know, from Reston where I was very familiar. Yeah. And, um, there's a place called Savage.

[00:05:28] Giles: Savage Maryland. Yes. [00:05:30] And the old Savage Mills Mall, or no? Yeah, it's an old, it's an old mill that they renovated into this shopping mall, but it looks more like a bizarre, or you know, something out of a storybook. And there's this restaurant, I think it's called Elephant Ears or something. Oh my God. They had the best cheese steak sandwiches and every time I'd go up there, I'd always arrange meetings there to have [00:06:00] lunch.

[00:06:00] Giles: There's, you know, little spots like that that, you know, as we go back home to areas we always go to, I, you know, one of my go-tos is it is a, it's a seafood restaurant. Uh, it's actually near BWI. Mm-hmm. So if you're flying out of BWI stop by G and m's and just get the crab cakes. They're the best crab cakes in, uh, you know, it's Maryland's known for crab cakes.

[00:06:23] Giles: Oh yeah. The best ones you'll ever have. We went to Kent Island almost every summer. Um, you know, my company Sequoia, and [00:06:30] even the one before TRS, we'd have a crab feast every summer Oh wow. Around June. And we would go to Kent Moore restaurant on Kent Island. Sure. And they'd have a big tent out back and.

[00:06:41] Giles: Yeah. Ribs and hamburgers. Awesome. Crabs and around water. Yeah. Yeah. I, I think a lot of people don't realize that Maryland, uh, is so diverse, like the, you go to the Eastern shore and you just, your cornfield's everywhere. Yeah. You know, farms everywhere on the way to the beach and it's [00:07:00] just incredible. Um, incredibly beautiful, um, incredibly close to the national capital region.

[00:07:07] Giles: The traffic's terrible and that's why I try to stay away. Uh, yeah, for sure. That's one reason why I wanna leave there. Um, welcome you down here. Oh, I can't. Our last, um, guest, his name was Chris Hornbecker. He was raised in Western Maryland. Yeah. And we were talking about the difference of topography between Western Maryland and Eastern Maryland.

[00:07:28] Giles: Oh yeah. 'cause [00:07:30] you think of like Baltimore or Silver Spring or, you know, some of those big metro areas, but so much beautiful farmland out west. Oh, sure. Of course. Camp David. Yeah, it was right down the road too. Yeah. So it's like, oh yeah, the mountain, you get to the mountains. There's even like, uh, western ski ranges now out there, so, right.

[00:07:46] Giles: Was it called Deep Creek? Yes. Yeah. Deep Creek, lake Creek. Yeah. My, my, my, uh, my youngest sister, their family actually just sold some property up there, so, yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, it seems very popular up there in Northern Virginia area. [00:08:00] Yeah. So did you locate here to Holly Ridge area for the work you did with the Marine Corps?

[00:08:07] Giles: So, in the, yeah, I came back from, uh, deployment. I was, I was going through divorce and, I needed to get some stability in my life and fortunately, uh, coming back from deployment, had a great real estate agent. She was phenomenal. Gave her some like stipulations, wanted to stay away from like homeowners associations and that, that kind of environment and needed a backyard for my dogs.

[00:08:28] Giles: And, uh, first [00:08:30] house I went to is the house I wound up buying. it's right in Surf City. It was great. I got my kids on the weekend when I wasn't deployed. Mm-hmm. So it was a great environment to be able to take the kids to the Beach's really small, beach town. there's, it's one lane in and one lane out Right.

[00:08:46] Giles: on the island. Yeah. And, it, it was just a great experience, I think for the kids growing up. And, my older kids, two in college right now and the the third one is, is on his way to Chapel Hill, so. Mm-hmm. I'm really proud of him. Congratulations. [00:09:00] Thanks. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. I know your kids are in college too, so, or one one's actually just out of Purdue.

[00:09:04] Giles: One just graduated at Purdue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's, he's entering the Space Force. Yep. Awesome. He starts in the fall. Um, and then. My other one's a rising senior and she's completing her army, ROTC bootcamp. Incredible. Uh, this summer. Yeah. So she's dominating, I'm sure. Oh, yeah. Trying, trying her best. Yeah, that's great.

[00:09:25] Giles: Throwing gr grenades 40 yards to, to prove others that she can't do it. Oh, yeah. That's [00:09:30] awesome. Nothing like, uh, motivation. That's it. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. So to answer your question, like it was absolutely, a, a choice in this area. from the Marine Corps, I wound up doing my last four years, between, operational battalion Victor one, two, we went into, Afghanistan, closed, camp Leatherneck, Sebastian Leatherneck Complex, handed that over.

[00:09:52] Giles: Uh, obviously they went back and reopened it up. But, that was a great deployment. went up. Fleeting up during that deployment for the last month, [00:10:00] the, our battalion actually ran the task force to close that, base for, for General U. and then we came back and we fleeted up to, to, help general, now General Savage, Colonel Savage, run second, regiment.

[00:10:15] Giles: 'cause he was second marine regiment. He was forward, on deployment. So, you know, the battalion fleeted up to, to, to help run the, the rain remain behind, um, a regiment. And then I went over and closed out my tour with the Marine [00:10:30] Corps h and s Battalion on base. Mm-hmm. So it was my, really my second experience with, you know, contracting.

[00:10:37] Giles: So, because the contracting officers would, would work for us. Um, yeah. The financial, financial management folks were downstairs. Mm-hmm. So I always got to have those great conversations. But really my first experience with government contracting. It was in 2008 to 2011. Mm-hmm. I came back from deployment, just, but I knew where I was going 2008.

[00:10:57] Giles: So I came back in 2009, gonna go to [00:11:00] SOTG, special Operations Training Group to stand up the visit board, search and seizure program. And obviously we're a maritime force. Uh, you would think we could still do all the maritime things, but vis board search and seizure was a major topic. at the time there was the rise in piracy, out in the Red Sea.

[00:11:21] Giles: and so the Commandant and the CNO got together like, all right, what are our capabilities? And really it was, it was SEAL Team six, that was it. They had one capability, [00:11:30] so they needed some echelon, some capabilities between that. We worked with, the Navy, the Coast Guard, the. A couple of the different SEAL teams, swic operators.

[00:11:40] Giles: It's really ironic because, we did all this in, in 2008 to 11, kind of built the program, almost took all of, what, what the seals were using. Mm-hmm. as far as gear and equipment, um, off the shelf. 'cause we knew it was proven, but we wound up, you know, [00:12:00] deciding to acquire some other things for the Marines and the, and what we were trying to do, but the capability that we delivered for the Marine Corps and the marine expeditionary units that go out, so these are the, the kernel level commands.

[00:12:15] Giles: So, um, they, they will go out on a deployment on the Mu Arg. Mm-hmm. So it's the Marine expeditioner unit plus the amphibious ready group. Mm-hmm. So that is the Navy Marine Corps team forward deploying. [00:12:30] Um, typically if, our ships are ready and we don't have a ship building problem in the United States, uh, typically you will always have a mu arc out in, what we call the east and then out in the west, and an additional one coming out of, Japan.

[00:12:47] Giles: Mm-hmm. So that's the 31st mu, and then you have three mws on rotation out of one meth or, and on the west coast. So first marine expeditionary force, and then you have three mus that typically rotate out of two [00:13:00] meth. And so we had to work across all three mes to build this program. So full LPF, you know, from doctrine all the way to what facilities are we gonna use.

[00:13:10] Giles: Mm-hmm. And this included. Gas and oil platforms all the way down in, off the coast of Alabama in mobile, all the way out to doing, site surveys in, in California is what are our training opportunities gonna be? Mm-hmm. where can we go, what are the underway capabilities that we can use as far as training [00:13:30] facilities?

[00:13:30] Giles: when are we gonna do live top down, bottom up mm-hmm. Near simultaneous raids. Mm-hmm. So fast rope in, hook and climb from, you know, a, a rib or a, a, an an, NSW sw mm-hmm. Uh, craft on the side of, a boat. Mm-hmm. And so the, the, the, the responsibilities of the task is a, a raid, a maritime raid.

[00:13:54] Giles: Mm-hmm. Um, and so the, the assumption is that there could always be an opposed [00:14:00] force, but to dial it back doctrinally, because the seals kept the. The opposed task. We just called it non-compliance. Right, right. To stay out of the special operations kind of mm-hmm. Seal team, six kind of, capability, if that makes sense.

[00:14:18] Giles: Right. Absolutely. It's a unique experience because you spent most of your time on the operation side. It was. And so for that, that was actually an incredibly unique opportunity mm-hmm. [00:14:30] Because I was with Special operations training group, so I had, all of the courses mm-hmm. that we provided to the force, recon, company and to the platoon that would come from the Force Recon Company and the platoon that would come from the Recon Battalion.

[00:14:45] Giles: Mm-hmm. and additional to that, some of our new commanders wanted to add a, a security element. So basically we were bringing back the, the MSPF, so the Maritime Special Purpose Force. Mm-hmm. which at the time it [00:15:00] was Colonel Donovan, was kind of really leading the charge on that. He had a lot of experience, in the special operations community.

[00:15:07] Giles: So now, I don't know if you're familiar, but he's, he's the deputy, commander for, for socom. Right. And a three star now. So, got to work with, with his mu and do some, some forward certifications out in, the Mediterranean mm-hmm. For that capability. but yeah, so, so he has a really forward-leaning kernels.

[00:15:27] Giles: and to get to your, your statement and [00:15:30] answer that question, it was not just an operations and training responsibility. Mm-hmm. But because we were standing up a capability, we had to do that full dot mill pf mm-hmm. Which is required whenever you're standing up a program, a record. Right. Unfortunately, how the muse are funded.

[00:15:49] Giles: We could talk about funding, but there's, you know, different ways to, to, to contract. mu muse are funded with o and m money. Mm-hmm. So the challenge [00:16:00] was, uh, not just doing the operations and training, support building, you know, the, the training templates of the courses and making sure that everything's synced, but finding the right program offices mm-hmm.

[00:16:13] Giles: For the capabilities that we wanted to provide. Mm-hmm. That mu commander. Right. Right. Because the MU commander would come in and his entire MU would be assigned at 210 days out. Mm-hmm. The training package started at 210 days out. Right. So he didn't have time to, Hey, I [00:16:30] want to, you know, I need this other special thing.

[00:16:33] Giles: We had to make sure that it was already provided. Right. Was that frustrating for you? Trying to Oh it was incredibly frustrating. Yeah. 'cause obviously you have some almost reverse engineering. Yeah. You have program managers, obviously Markcom. Some of which at the time, didn't want the Marine Corps doing visit board, search seizure.

[00:16:53] Giles: Right, right. Yeah, exactly. So you have a stay in your swim lane. Yes, and absolutely. And then, you know, we're, we're seeing kind of [00:17:00] things, uh, as they affect the government right now with Doge and, and and personnel, it's very interesting. But our meth, commanding general mm-hmm. Was gapped. So I would, I could be on a call with my CO, or OIC at SOTG.

[00:17:18] Giles: Mm-hmm. And the incoming. Or who we thought was going to be the incoming. In one case we thought another guy was gonna be, become, a general officer was gonna be coming in and mm-hmm. It wasn't him wound up being another general [00:17:30] officer. So we had the one call and we're like, oh. Got his guidance on where we're gonna move the, the training package and, and, uh, the pre-deployment training, uh, requirements.

[00:17:40] Giles: And then, um, uh, another, another general officer was actually selected for the math. Mm-hmm. We had another call and mm-hmm. New guidance. Right. Which, Seper Gumby. Right. So it is like one of those things, what do you, you have to, it's kinda like running a business. Improvise, adapt, absolutely. Overcome. You're gonna [00:18:00] face these kind of, uh, friction points.

[00:18:03] Giles: You're gonna get new guidance. The, there's a pivot that needs to occur and, uh, you know, at 200 days out mm-hmm. Like the training package is locked. Right. We're ordering ammunition, we're, we've got contracts written. Mm-hmm. Right. So, uh, it was, it was incredibly. I chair your similar experience working in government contracting and the dealing with the frustration of just the bureaucratic process [00:18:30] and the run and wait, run and wait, fill out the application, do this, you know, and it's, you just wanna do work like, sure, go order this software and install it and get it up and running.

[00:18:40] Giles: You know, you could do this in a day, but Nope. You have to go through process and procurement and, you know, a 24 hour unit of work, you know, probably in the government will take, you know, a month or six weeks because of all these different processes and Sure. It's very inefficient. And I, I know you mentioned Doge coming [00:19:00] through and trying to work under the title of efficiency.

[00:19:03] Giles: I'm not sure how much efficient we've become, because like you mentioned, it's, it's like, it's the blueprint, it's, it's built in the DNA, it's inherently just a bureaucratic machine. Very, very hard to kind of. You know, turn things around or, or make it more agile to be more, um, beneficial for execution.

[00:19:26] Giles: Especially when you're talking about delivering products and [00:19:30] services for theater, for the war fighter who needs this ASAP you know? Yes. As things are changing Yes. All the time. Just like this week. Yes. So, absolutely. Yeah. And so it, it, it's one of those learning experience for me has been learning the other services.

[00:19:47] Giles: So there's a reason, uh, to your point, uh, you know, it's not just process, it's also systems. There's a reason the commands that manage programs of record are called systems commands. Mm-hmm. [00:20:00] Um, because they're managing systems and systems and systems. Um, as your, one of my, one of my beliefs and the reason why my company exists is you have to, um, you have to solve the problem for different personas.

[00:20:16] Giles: You have to solve the problem for the war fighter at the edge. You have to solve the problem, uh, for that program executive office and that program manager, and you have to solve the problem for that senior leader that cares. The senior leaders do care. They're [00:20:30] clobbered with time. You know, I, countless conversations whether on active duty or, um, you know, in this, this, this, this, this kind of weird commercial, um, um, uh, environment where you're Oh, really?

[00:20:48] Giles: A trusted advisor. Mm-hmm. And, and those like the, the senior leaders. I just want to, I have to do something for the war fighter at the edge. Mm-hmm. Because they know that the, the [00:21:00] combatant commands and the war fighter are at the edge, the, the requirements process and bb e it's not built to, um, solve their problems.

[00:21:08] Giles: Mm-hmm. Which is why we have all these supplemental fundings that come in from the, the combatant commands, whether it's endo, paycom, which is the priority now, or, you know, three years ago it was coming in from, from Ucomm. Mm-hmm. Um, and so, um, you know, that that has been one of those really strong lessons learned, but it gets back to like that belief system.

[00:21:28] Giles: How do you solve that [00:21:30] problem for the war fighter at the edge and tie those three personas together To, to actual, to solve the need and deliver what should be a requirement. 'cause at the end of the day, for that, for that company that you're working with, whether I was working in mission engineering at AWS.

[00:21:46] Giles: Um, you know, they can do a demonstration and gain traction. But unless they get a, what we would say now, like an ot, like a a, an interim funding mechanism to get into a program of [00:22:00] record. Really, they're spinning wheels, they're demonstrating to the, the, the, the war fighter what's in the realm of the possible.

[00:22:06] Giles: Which can be extremely frustrating for the war fighter. Right. Right. When it was, you know, working on some, some pretty significant capabilities at the edge and, you know, you, I'll hear from my boss and the, you know, the general says, get Maven to the edge. What don't we understand about getting Maven to the edge?

[00:22:24] Giles: Like Right. Gotcha, sir. Done. And I'm at AWS, I'm not in uniform. Right. Right. And so now I'm [00:22:30] battling with seven different commands. Mm-hmm. Like eight. General Donahue wants Maven to the edge. I don't understand why we're, we're dragging our feet on this. Right? Like we can land circuits anywhere in Europe that we want to for a, for AWS to make sure that Palantir and the Maven Smart System and you know, the multiple different hops that are coming back to the United States, the AWS secret region turn into one hop and we're, we're solving the problem.

[00:22:53] Giles: Right. But, you know, getting seven different commands in the army and you come [00:23:00] all on the same page is not easy. Right. And so you have to, you have to do the work and these small companies, whether they're pre-series A or you can go all the way up to pre IPO, I mean, you have to learn from, these companies have to learn from what works.

[00:23:15] Giles: Palantir spent 20 years building what they have built. Mm-hmm. Um, they're a product company. And rule is a product company. If these companies are gonna be product companies, I. They have to have engineers at the edge [00:23:30] sitting next to the war fighter getting that rapid feedback. Mm-hmm. And these guys are incredible.

[00:23:35] Giles: They'll go out to an exercise or they'll be in real world operations and you know, there'll be a demand for a change to come in and overnight they will engineer the solution mm-hmm. And solve the problem. Right. And a lot of the companies that I talk to don't realize that, like, that is the expectation.

[00:23:54] Giles: Mm-hmm. We talked about, talk about how fast small companies [00:24:00] or you know, these companies that are gaining a lot of, um, investment can move, they can move incredibly quickly. Mm-hmm. Um, it's a matter of tying, uh, those personas together. Mm-hmm. And then for the company culture to be willing to accept that risk.

[00:24:18] Giles: Right. I'll put this person at the edge, we'll solve the problem, we will. Invest in SOCOM has Vulcan, right? Mm-hmm. Vulcan is a mechanism, it's a UI [00:24:30] where the, the Department of Defense, uh, unit or um, formation can go in, or even, you know, major command can go in and say, we want to do a intelligence, you know, demonstration.

[00:24:43] Giles: Mm-hmm. You know, do you have a scout card first? So every company in inside of Vulcan has a scout card, and their capability will match against general requirements. Mm-hmm. And so there's a way for these small companies to increase their matching score. Mm-hmm. It's, [00:25:00] it's not rocket science, but it's not, it's also not, um, well known.

[00:25:06] Giles: Mm-hmm. Right. Tie, tie it into the doctrine of DOD, tie your scout card and your capability into what are the current 17, um, priorities for the Department of Defense. Mm-hmm. Starting with the border, right? Like, and, and how does your technology solve these problems. Mm-hmm. Be explicit in your scout [00:25:30] card, and that increases your matching score.

[00:25:32] Giles: There's a lot other, of other things that increase your matching score. Mm-hmm. The quality of your, your video, the quality of your media, your marketing data, your quad chart, like, and so for small companies and, and, and founders. Especially the, you know, pre-series as they don't know this is, this is all like, how would you know this?

[00:25:51] Giles: Right. Right. Yeah. It's, it's another element of the voodoo of selling to, to, to the government. Yeah. And the, you know, selling to the, to [00:26:00] the federal government and, and in this case DOD. Yeah. Um, so that's where, you know, really, um, you know, my company and why I exist, uh, is to help these small founders, right.

[00:26:10] Giles: Small companies kind of, uh, abstract pain points away mm-hmm. And provide capabilities, um, you know, that, that, that will help them. Yeah. And some of the companies I work with, you know, 'cause of course I've spent my career in the public sector. Yeah. Working for federal government. We talked about it. Yeah.

[00:26:28] Giles: Now that I'm in the private [00:26:30] sector helping these startups, like you kind of get to that series a, you know, realm. I. I always ask them, Hey, do you wanna work for the government? I know some people I can introduce you to and you can get, maybe get some government contracts, some SBIR grants and so forth. And they're like, uh, no, I don't want to go there, man.

[00:26:49] Giles: They're like, wait, why not? It's actually a pretty good area to, to expand your model, you know? Yeah. Government's a good customer. Um, you just have to understand to work with them. [00:27:00] Do you have your cage code? What? Do you have a DUNS number? I. Did you register on sam.gov? What, what the hell are you talking about?

[00:27:07] Giles: You know, so, well some of these, these nomenclature things you have to complete, but it's like if the government would just make it easier to work with them and not have such siloed systems and, oh, you must register here, gonna talk to this person. Fill out your financial disclosure form, fill, fill out your, you know, your foreign interest, you know, [00:27:30] control, whatever, you know, making sure no foreign actors or shareholders of your company.

[00:27:33] Giles: I mean, there's like, but there's no cookbook or playbook to go by. You have to just either partner with somebody like yourself who knows exactly what avenues to go through to kind of check the box. Um, it just, it's very, you know, unfortunate because I understand, I agree with you. The government needs advanced technology, emerging technology at the edge asap.

[00:27:58] Giles: And if they make it [00:28:00] incredibly hard to get there. Then they're doing themselves a disservice. And then the, you know, public will look at 'em. Like, I don't, why are we losing the AI race to China? Well, uh, it takes twice as long to get technology to the place that needs to go. Yes. You know, well, how can we solve that problem?

[00:28:18] Giles: You know? Let's just cut to the chase. Yeah. Yeah. I think we're gonna see some, some massive changes, um, coming. I, I expect, you know, I, I don't have crystal [00:28:30] ball, I don't think any of us do, but we, we know the administration is gonna, is gonna make it through these next round of, of, of Doge cuts, you know, so they're waiting for, um, the, the government employees who are not gonna return from, you know, the COVID mandate.

[00:28:46] Giles: That's in July, right? Yeah. So, so they'll know in July. So I would expect, you know, we will see some, some changes then. Yeah. I, I would, and it's, you know, it's, it's, it's on topic because. [00:29:00] Talk about like, okay, we're, we're gonna go through a second round of cuts. Well, you know, people have responsibilities. You currently have some personnel that aren't, you know, formally assigned with authorities.

[00:29:11] Giles: Mm-hmm. Uh, you have some nominations, uh, that have not been confirmed. Um, and so there's plenty of people, um, that are still, uh, in areas of responsibility. Um, and, uh, they might not have all the authorities mm-hmm. Um, that go with those [00:29:30] areas. So I think D-O-D-C-I-O is, is moving aggressively. Um, you know, the, the guidance on atos and what, you know, the Chief Digital Artificial Intelligence office, you know, it started, um, that organization started as Jake.

[00:29:45] Giles: Um, there, you know, the joint artificial intelligence center, CDAO was kind of born out of the Jake and the, the, uh, algorithmic, uh, warfare cross, cross-functional team. Um, to do a number of different things. One was Maven, [00:30:00] uh, one was Adva. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, advancing analytics. Uh, those are the two major AI programs.

[00:30:07] Giles: Um, you know, interesting stories between both, both of those. Um, but, um, there, there's several others, um, that, that, that they were working on. One of which that aligns with the DOD CIO's initiatives is Operation Vulcan Log Logic. Mm-hmm. Which is to, uh, accelerate the automation of [00:30:30] atos. Mm-hmm. Um, and so there's a lot of good work happening.

[00:30:33] Giles: There's good people in good, good places trying to do the right thing. You know, one of, uh, kind of the gurus of, of government contracting and, you know, the OTA, she. Originally had a podcast was like, don't far on my OTA. Yeah. Like yeah. Um, but her name is funny. Evangelista, she has just moved from the CDAO to GSA.

[00:30:56] Giles: Mm-hmm. There's a lot of speculation on why you would [00:31:00] want to do that, but, you know, GSA, you know, if it was my guess, it's probably gonna, you know, use that, you know, corporate knowledge from Bonnie and, and what she did was standing up Tradewinds. Mm-hmm. Uh, and that marketplace for, um, AI and autonomy capabilities.

[00:31:20] Giles: Mm-hmm. So under the, underneath the trusted AI and autonomy capabilities and how you deliver those capabilities to the government, that's why Tradewinds exists. Mm-hmm. Um, [00:31:30] and Tradewinds has been remarkably successful. Um, I would guess that GSA is probably going to have an outward facing trade winds, um, for.

[00:31:43] Giles: For commercial companies to be able to sell their capabilities mm-hmm. For the federal government faster. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, and, and using kind of the same rubric, you know, five minute pitch video, you know, what the capability does, you know, answering some of the rubric res [00:32:00] questions. Um. I think Operation Vulcan Logic, when you couple that with, will it have a refactoring capability mm-hmm.

[00:32:09] Giles: For some of the software that comes in, you know, a, a founder's not gonna wanna refactor their, their, their software just to meet an a TO or some nebulous NIST requirement. Right? Right. Yeah. Um, but that's the requirement. So if you are using something the government's providing to help you do that and help you create this, um, you know, [00:32:30] opportunity to sell to the government mm-hmm.

[00:32:31] Giles: Maybe you'll start to have, you know, pre-series a more, more pre-series A companies mm-hmm. Um, seek to sell to the government. It shouldn't be that hard to sell to the government. It should be more like a marketplace. Correct. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so I would also think that, I mean, if I was a government, um, and I was an insider, um, I would say, you know, we've, we've got this next round of Doge.

[00:32:54] Giles: I. You know, these are smart people. What software do we already have? Mm-hmm. What have [00:33:00] we already bought? Right? What works? Yes. Right. Have a scoring system. You know, it could be like your like button. Right, right. Exactly. Swipe right. I don't know, but, um, I, I would expect to see something like that internal to the government.

[00:33:14] Giles: Mm-hmm. Um, and, and that may have another, uh, effect on all these systems integrators. I think what you're gonna see is the abstraction of systems integration. Mm-hmm. Um, and you're gonna see more of a reliance [00:33:30] on what is actually in, uh, our law, which is to use commercial. Right. The commer and commercial goods and services software.

[00:33:40] Giles: Right, right. To, to solve problems. Right. Everything has a software, uh, piece, uh, to it today, or a software towel, which does mm-hmm. Whether we're at home. Right. We walk in the door and, you know, magically our phone works. Right. Right. Magically it's connected to the wifi and synced with our little mini cloud or whatever.

[00:33:59] Giles: Yeah. You know? [00:34:00] Right. So that's the expectation for our, our government operators Yeah. And our war fighters at the edge. Yeah. So what you're telling me is I should go out and sell my Lockheed Raytheon and, um, yeah. So that's a great point. SASE stock. Yeah. What's, um, CS C's? Great. I like, I liked, uh, that company, um, you know, what they're doing.

[00:34:20] Giles: 'cause they actually tend to move a little bit faster with Smalls and they have ave they already, you know, each of these companies has like a venture capital arm. [00:34:30] Right, right. Yeah. So they're make, making investments already. I think, and I think this is where your question is going, like what's going to happen to them?

[00:34:39] Giles: Mm-hmm. Um, you know, we saw the cancellation or the, the downgrade of the Lockheed F 35, uh, contract this week. I think you're gonna see more of that. Uh, I think these companies are gonna turn into venture capitalists. I mean like the, the Booz Allen and the Accentures, and then they got whacked hard. Yeah. A few months ago.

[00:34:57] Giles: Yes. I mean, I know some friends that work, [00:35:00] you know, for those companies, and they were telling me 2000 people just got laid off. You know, like you, that's unheard of in DC market. Like usually it's a bubble. I used to tell people all the time, like, you know, you live in a bubble like this, this utopian economy is not, you don't see this down south.

[00:35:17] Giles: Like I used to tell people all the time, just drive down to North Carolina and tell me what you see. You know, it's like, like this isn't real, like, you know, um. But it's, it's, I think it's time, [00:35:30] it's it's past time that we rightsize the government and bring in technology like Andel, like SpaceX, Palantir, and as you mentioned, you know, start moving capabilities to the edge and being more agile with how we deliver products and services to theater and to the war fighter.

[00:35:48] Giles: Yes, a hundred percent. And so I think for founders that in the back of their mind, they're, they're like, they might be thinking, well, I'm gonna get to that. You know, [00:36:00] to your, to your point earlier, have you thought about selling to the federal government? They're a good customer. Well, you know, it's upwards of 30% of the market.

[00:36:09] Giles: Mm-hmm. Right? You don't sell to the government, um, or have a plan to. Um, you're at risk. Right? Right. And so, you know, we're seeing that with open, open AI with their contract when this this week was really important for them, that partnership with and Andrew was critical. Mm-hmm. Um, because if they're not Anthropics gonna run over 'em.

[00:36:28] Giles: Yeah. Like a steam train. [00:36:30] 'cause they're already in, you know, each of the impact levels. So they are all the way up to t they, they very like a brilliant business plan to, to partner with AWS on that. Mm-hmm. And so OpenAI, you know, we're seeing some, some, you know, disgruntled, um, news reporting on, you know, how things are going with Microsoft.

[00:36:49] Giles: I, I, you know, who knows what's happening there, but they need to be moving across the impact levels 'cause. Our service, our war fighters, our operators, they will be using, [00:37:00] um, large language models. Mm-hmm. Um, agentic AI is coming in the disconnected age. I've got a phenomenal company in my portfolio that, you know, working with, um, just incredible capability.

[00:37:13] Giles: If you can send a swarm of AI agents against a problem mm-hmm. Uh, ingest your doctrine, ingest a warning order, or even an order, and literally spit out a common operational picture, common intelligence picture, you know, logistics, contested [00:37:30] logistics solution, uh, on a laptop mm-hmm. In a disconnected environment, like it's unheard of.

[00:37:35] Giles: So, um, it's only going to accelerate. It's, it's one of those, it's one of those step changes to what comes next. Right. Yeah. I was having a conversation yesterday with a friend and I was explaining my thoughts on AI in the future. And what the next five and 10 years is gonna look like and why I'm personally [00:38:00] making bets on companies in that space.

[00:38:02] Giles: And you know, I said on one hand you can kind of see the writing on the wall and you know where the trend, the trends are, friend. So if, if it's heading that way, let's go ahead and make some bets and yeah, and, and then adjust accordingly. But on the backside is that you feel bad because like, if your bet comes in, then the American economy as you know it today is gonna be drastically different.

[00:38:28] Giles: And that's not a good thing, [00:38:30] you know? Well, it could, it might be right, like changes upon us every single day. Um, you know, supply chains. Uh, maybe the economy, the way that we know it is going to change. Well, the, I would say the workforce. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe the workforce, the way we educate our children and Yeah.

[00:38:49] Giles: Um, you know, with the expectation, like what's next? Um, yeah. I'm really excited for Marines 'cause they love to get their hands dirty and I can't wait, like to see what they do on base [00:39:00] snacks Right. With their transition program. Right. You know, with supply chain where, you know, these guys could be working on, you know, the, the, the semiconductor factories that are popping up in, uh, and I don't know why we're popping 'em up in Arizona, but, you know, with all their water shortage shortages, but Right.

[00:39:16] Giles: Um, but, um, you know, the, the, the pace of the economy and industry where, and, and how it's moving, you know, really, um, I think the, the military has, uh, [00:39:30] probably an edge in technology when we talk about like stealth capabilities. Mm-hmm. Um, energetics when it comes to directed energy. But you know, even hypersonics, the military can't do anything with hypersonics without industry right now.

[00:39:46] Giles: Mm-hmm. And those other technologies, if it's stealth or you know, energetics, that's gonna change quickly. Mm-hmm. You know, our national labs are still pumping out some, some incredible capabilities that are [00:40:00] transitioned via sitter, but, uh, the sitter siber process is, is broke like this I, the administration Yeah.

[00:40:10] Giles: I'm not, there are always things to be critical of, but they are moving into pace that is gonna require accountability. Mm-hmm. And if we're spending $2 billion on cis in the DOD, what's the return on investment? You know, how many of [00:40:30] those capabilities are returning into either co full commercialization or adopted by a program of record.

[00:40:37] Giles: Mm-hmm. And the, the numbers are staggeringly low. Mm-hmm. Um, NASA's numbers are pretty good, but you're only talking about a $45 million investment in our space economy. Right. Right. That's, it's guys like you Right. In, in private equity and our VCs that are, are picking up the slack. Right. Um, and so our government really needs to decide [00:41:00] what it's going to be.

[00:41:01] Giles: And really that's a congressional. Mm-hmm. It's not a bureaucratic decision. It's a congressional and a presidential led decision mm-hmm. On how we are going to be moving forward. Mm-hmm. Could it be scary to the American people? I think so. Mm-hmm. You talk about, you know, we were talking last night about Skynet and, you know, the rise of, of robotics and.

[00:41:25] Giles: That's the step change. Mm-hmm. A GI. So, [00:41:30] um, if we're talking about, you know, AI agent being a step change to a GI and this automated generalized intelligence and what that's gonna look like mm-hmm. Power of it is when you combine it with robotics mm-hmm. Supply chain and manufacturing. I want, I want a human in the loop, even though that's not really a thing, you know, we created that.

[00:41:52] Giles: Right. Um, as a requirement. It's like there should be some leadership on the factory floor making sure that those robots are doing what we want. [00:42:00] Right? Yeah. Right. Exactly. We've seen the videos of the robots fighting with their handlers in China. Right. We're not, we're kidding ourselves if that doesn't happening.

[00:42:06] Giles: Did see, they're in the boxing ring. Oh yeah. The two robots were boxing each other, like, what the hell? Yeah. They one robot get pissed off at a concert. Yeah. At a concert goer and started wailing on a concert goer and, and so Yeah. I mean, yeah. I don't, I haven't been to a concert where there's a robot like that in America.

[00:42:27] Giles: Right, right. So why aren't, why [00:42:30] aren't we, you know, adopting mm-hmm. Robotics faster. You know why? You know, the, the, did you see the police ball that they have for their, their, their, um, their SWAT teams, and actually it's for regular day policing. It's this ball that rolls around the city with all full of sensors.

[00:42:46] Giles: To help, uh, their police officers in China. I saw the, they have like a robot dog looking thing that walks around, you know, like, like the Boston Dynamics dog. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I actually thought about buying one for saltwater. We, [00:43:00] we've had some issues recently. Did you talk to, did you talk to Courtney about a German shepherd?

[00:43:06] Giles: We have. We have, uh, we have, we have two German Shepherds and you know, we're babysitting a third right now, so, yeah. Dog sitting. It's a baby though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have, uh, golden doodles. Oh, there you go. Yeah. They're not too terribly aggressive. Yeah. So you don't get the, the, the, the glitter right around the house, right?

[00:43:25] Giles: Yeah. It's not glitter. Yeah. That's like, uh, it's, that's dog hair. Yeah. [00:43:30] Right, right. Exactly. Yeah. So it seems that your startup, your new company is bridging the gap between two totally different cultures, startups. Defense, DOD where one relies on speed and agility and the other one kind of relies on risk and compliance.

[00:43:50] Giles: How, how are you navigating that? Yeah. Uh, it's great. Um, personally, the, I think the way you help [00:44:00] solve those problems for founders not trying to do it yourself. Like, so for me, um, one is a recommendation on, on the things that we're gonna go after, right? Um, and then two, it's partnerships. Mm-hmm. Um, and so I'm, I'm in obviously some, some partnership negotiations right now with some, some companies, but assigned second front systems out out of the gate.

[00:44:22] Giles: Uh, second front is, um, you know, awesome, um, and, and, uh, helps companies with that a [00:44:30] TA right, and at at at each of the impact levels. So some, some good friends there, um, came to know that company even better. When I worked at Defense Unicorns. Um, great company. All, all the companies are AWS, you know, big Bear, ai, defense unicorns couldn't say enough positive things about, uh, the people, the culture, um, you know, just, you know, things didn't work out with defense unicorns and, you know, um, you know, subcontracts, the, you said the, the government's a great customer, [00:45:00] GU customer can be fickle.

[00:45:02] Giles: Mm-hmm. Um, there can be some timing issues, right? Right. There's a difference between being an awarded on a con contract and actually. Receiving that revenue. Right. So is that co contract executed? Right. Is its fine. Final sign off and, um, you know, so a lot of times these companies, um, you know, they'll make big bets.

[00:45:22] Giles: Mm-hmm. Big bets are good. Um, you know, I. Uh, as a small company and for the, my, my founders, [00:45:30] um, I'm making smaller bets on, on technology. Mm-hmm. You know, I think, I, I told you yesterday, I have a, I have my own matching tool, um, for, uh, opportunities. Mm-hmm. And I've started a subscription model to make it easier for, for companies to kind of get started with OODAx.

[00:45:46] Giles: Um, you know, what can they afford? You know, there's a lot of great tools out there. Um, there's the industry standard, which is GovWin, and that's not a great tool. Um, you know, you could, you could [00:46:00] put in some, you know, matching criteria into that platform. And it is literally the industry standard. Um, and you are just gonna get bombarded with, you know, you could be selling software and you're getting opportunities for nuts and bolts.

[00:46:14] Giles: Mm-hmm. You know, because you search for Air Force, you're gonna get, you know, replacement, you know, doors or spare parts for, you know, aircraft and, um. You know, it's, there's ways. There's ways to search better. Mm-hmm. And so I have my own tool on that. [00:46:30] I, there's plenty of other tools out in the, in the marketplace.

[00:46:33] Giles: I'm a big fan of two companies, um, that have capabilities out there. Um, talking to one right now about a partnership. And that's, frankly, while I'm not investing in my own mm-hmm. Um, technology, uh, with a developer, um, because I think you're going to get to a point where, you know, you do, you invest in the technology to match the capability or you focus your business.

[00:46:59] Giles: On [00:47:00] solving those founders' problems. Right. Which, um, for me, I'm trying to abstract that, that first major cost mm-hmm. Which is a BD team. Mm-hmm. So, you know, business development team is, is expensive. Um, you know, a business development professional in the national capital region is gonna command a significant salary in total compensation package.

[00:47:22] Giles: Oh yes. And, you know, what are you gonna get as a startup founder out of that individual with a very specific niche capability? [00:47:30] Um, and maybe you win in two years and maybe you don't. I know, right. And then you're totally frustrated. Yeah. Um, so they can start with a subscription model, um, with me very, very cheap, or, you know, they could do it on their own or they can not use a subscription model and just do ad hoc hours.

[00:47:47] Giles: Mm-hmm. Um, but we aim to get our, uh, clients on, uh, to a retainer, whether that's monthly or. Or, um, weekly. And then, uh, once they get on a retainer, I can sign a BD [00:48:00] professional in their technical niche. Mm-hmm. Um, they're meeting with that individual. They're updating their pipeline, they're helping 'em out with proposals, solving the, the process of bd.

[00:48:12] Giles: And there's this great, uh. Kind of mindset on proposals and process called the Shipley process. And I'm just not a fan. Yeah. Alright. It's so bureaucratic. It matches the way contracting used to be done. And I, I think we're in this spot right [00:48:30] now. Like this is the opportunity for OODAx and for all these founders out there.

[00:48:34] Giles: Mm-hmm. Um, the, the commercial solutions opportunity, um, uh, our offering and the, the BAAs and the other transaction authority money that's out there is their bridge. Right. Um, to crossing either that initial valley mm-hmm. Or that middle oasis in the valley of death. Or get all the way across that valley of death or, you know, in the [00:49:00] commercial world, they call it crossing the chasm.

[00:49:02] Giles: Mm-hmm. Right. Getting from that first MVP to your actual mm-hmm. Um, you know, client satisfaction with their, with their product delivery. Right, exactly. So, um, for, for, for the DOD and for the government that's getting on a, a program of record. Mm-hmm. Right. And so you have a movement afoot starting at the SecDef and, you know, there's a bunch of accelerated innovation pathway funding mm-hmm.

[00:49:28] Giles: Capabilities as well, that, [00:49:30] that, um, they're not very well known, right. Mm-hmm. But they reside in the fourth estate, and these are your defense innovation accelerator. Um, this is, uh, your, uh, rapid prototype prototyping program. Mm-hmm. Your, um, you know, sco, DIU. Mm-hmm. Um, and, uh, there's probably a couple, you know.

[00:49:54] Giles: Uh, replicator, which I think is probably gonna go away. There's probably a couple others, um, that I might [00:50:00] be AP Fit. AP Fit is the last one. Mm-hmm. So it's the accelerated procurement, uh, fielding of Innovation technology. And they, these programs are designed to help companies either pass through that valley of death, right.

[00:50:15] Giles: Uh, or, uh, hit that oasis. Mm-hmm. And even in AP fit, like traditional, uh, defense contractors can be awarded. Mm-hmm. So if these companies pass through the Valley of Death and they make it to like what's [00:50:30] considered big status mm-hmm. Um, but they haven't received a certain number or value of awards in that, in that fiscal year they could be eligible for AP Fit, which is, you know, 10 to $50 million contract.

[00:50:41] Giles: Right. Um, through these programs. So, um, there. We'd be kidding ourselves if, unless the startup founder, uh, has experience selling to the DOD or prior experience selling to the DOD, we'd be kidding ourselves to expect them to understand, [00:51:00] uh, these different mechanisms and, and this process, um, and how they can accelerate, uh, with the, the US government.

[00:51:07] Giles: Where do you see the biggest gaps or choke points in the DOD innovation pipeline? Sure. Um, that's, that's fair. So the critical technologies, um, there's lots of, uh, criticism out, out, out there. Um, you know, frankly it's supply chain resources, right? Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. Like we've gotta, we've gotta [00:51:30] un hinge ourselves, um, from the way that we've done things in the past.

[00:51:33] Giles: Um, if we've got critical, uh. Um, rare earths or we've got critical resources and on protected property that we, we gotta, we gotta use that, uh, bottom line. Um, we've gotta build our, our, our reindustrialization and our manufacturing base back in America. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I think we've all learned that, you know, that Thomas Friedman and, uh, enlargement engagement, um, all these theories of [00:52:00] how perfect the world should be, you know, it is not reality.

[00:52:03] Giles: Mm-hmm. Um, and we gotta rebuild our, uh, our, our industrial base in, in this country. Um, we're seeing the effects of some of these companies and they, these, these effects and the ramifications. Are in all sectors mm-hmm. Of our, um, our life. Mm-hmm. Right. Whether it's not, whether it's a example would be Cummings, right.

[00:52:28] Giles: Cummings is headquartered in Indiana. [00:52:30] Right? Right. And so, uh, Cummings is, is, is totally dependent on China right now. Um, they, they cannot produce product. Uh, if they did, they didn't have their supply chain in China. Um, we're seeing that in carrier. Right. I just outfitted my house on the island. I know we talked about your air conditioning problem.

[00:52:47] Giles: Yeah. Got, got, got a dakin, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, Japanese company, uh, they're taking market share from carrier, like it's cool. Um, you Ford, they moved a lot of their manufacturing base out of [00:53:00] China to relocate it to Mexico. Mm-hmm. Um. But it's with Chinese labor, so it's like Right. What's the point? Yeah, it is like, what, what, what are we doing?

[00:53:09] Giles: You major US company. Um, there's gotta be some alignment. Is the problem skills or is it cost, you know, cost of labor or, I think it's, the commitment really is what, what what they've done, um, is, is companies have, have committed. Um, so I think some of it's cost, you know, what they think that [00:53:30] cost is. But I would say like, if you have to reshore after making a commitment, you know, I, I, I don't, I don't know what apple's costs are to reshore a lot of their, uh, industrial supply chain to India, but they're, and Indonesia, but they're doing it.

[00:53:45] Giles: Yeah. 'cause Trump made a comment that it was a month ago or whatever, that Apple should move its manufacturing of their devices to the United States. And of course Apple responded, uh, do you know what the cost would be if we did [00:54:00] that? You know, it was like 40 or 50% higher. Um, so it's, yeah, it's real. Yes.

[00:54:07] Giles: Yeah, it is. Um, there's gonna be some things to, to drive that down. Um, I'm partnered with an amazing company, you know, I won't get into too many details, uh, on it, but they have made an investment in a company that was spun out of one of our national laboratories, and essentially, you know, you know, there's a [00:54:30] lot of, it's like lightning in a bottle, right?

[00:54:32] Giles: Um, it's a nanotechnology. Um, essentially, you know, in, in layman's terms, uh, uh, it will take all of your spent, um, lithium battery mm-hmm. Um, from, from, from the use, whatever you, what vehicle or whatever use you have. Mm-hmm. Um, but it's designed for our major electrical grids. Mm-hmm. Right? So a lot of our electrical spend is on electricity that is never used.

[00:54:59] Giles: Right. [00:55:00] Interesting. I think it's. Anywhere, depending on where you are in the country, 46% of the actual energy that we produce is never used. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. It's like, it's like, where does it go? Right. Gone. Right, right. So can can you store it? Yeah, absolutely can. And if you can, you can drive the, the cost down.

[00:55:17] Giles: Why, how are you gonna do that? What are you gonna do that with Battery power? Mm-hmm. What's gonna happen when you keep reusing those batteries? Mm-hmm. Well, we, you are gonna get spend, you're gonna get end of life, so you have lightning in a bottle if you're able to, you know, [00:55:30] replenish. Mm-hmm. Um, all, all of, uh, that spent lithium, uh, after use.

[00:55:37] Giles: Mm-hmm. Right. And they can do it in, in minutes or seconds. Yeah. I know a lot of, uh, research is going into SMR technology. Yeah. Smalls was that small nuclear reactors or mm-hmm. Yeah. Incredible companies out there to invest in too. So, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's one of the, the areas, uh, that are, are, you know, UEX will, will focus on.

[00:55:58] Giles: Um, but yeah, there, there's. [00:56:00] So OB obviously, uh, US government and DOD application. Um, you know, we're talking about things like that there, you know, there's been a lot of work that, that both or all the services have done on it. Uh, while I was at AWS, we did a lot of the expeditionary energy support mm-hmm.

[00:56:20] Giles: Or, um, the Navy. Um, through, through some of our partnerships there. You know, I was ran, uh, you know, so I was a [00:56:30] program team lead for mission engineering and, uh, one of my program managers, one of my product managers that I worked with, uh, on a daily basis, um, ran the, the, the, the product delivery, um, and what is now an AWS product.

[00:56:46] Giles: Mm-hmm. Which is, uh, experimentation as a service. Mm-hmm. And so that was born out of some of the support, um, and exercise support. Things that we were doing, one of which was [00:57:00] expeditionary energy at the edge. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. I don't think I told you, but I bought, um, I bought a little electric, uh, um, motorcycle.

[00:57:10] Giles: Okay. Uh, that way we were testing out there. Yeah. This thing is awesome. It's a Vulcan. Uh, I know it's a public company and they're just, they're stock's been hammered. But, um, it's a great little thing. I, man, I take the kids out on it. They love it. Yeah. You know, think it's governed at 80 miles an hour. Like this thing is, it's real.

[00:57:27] Giles: Mm-hmm. It's, yeah. Sounds awesome, but a lot of [00:57:30] fun. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So now that you're pivoting from the military side to the more the civilian helping companies, you know, um, ascertain information and contracts in the government, how has your leadership leading Marines, you know, affected your philosophy on leading your company and leading other businesses to their own success in the government?

[00:57:54] Giles: So. You know, one of the things I love, like talking to you and your, [00:58:00] your experiences, um, in business and, and, um, you know, other founders, like, I'll start at the beginning of when I transitioned, I didn't start a business straight out of, uh, service because I really didn't have a business idea. Mm-hmm. Like, what do I, what did I want to accomplish with a business?

[00:58:21] Giles: So I joined Amazon through the Pathways program because I wanted to get basically a paid for MBA. Mm-hmm. [00:58:30] Right? Instead of going and getting my MBA, I wanted to learn, all right, what, what am I gonna miss mm-hmm. If I don't, you know, learn from the best. And, um, you know, the first couple years at Amazon, I mean, it really was the best.

[00:58:42] Giles: I mean, Amazon has changed dramatically. I think COVID had a lot to do with that. Mm-hmm. Uh, culturally, um, we s you know, I switched over, um, from, from Amazon operations at AWS. Um, but, you know, I made some [00:59:00] mistakes in how I was leading people, um, in Amazon operations. And it wasn't because of stress. Um, sometimes, uh, it was, you know what, I was just being honest, free communication.

[00:59:15] Giles: Right. And, uh, the way I would've talked to people was maybe not the same way you would talk to people in the commercial world. Um, and, and you gotta own it. Um, if you make a mistake in the commercial world, and I know I did, I remember, [00:59:30] you know, talking to, what used it was I was basically moved into a promotion and I went back to my old shift mm-hmm.

[00:59:39] Giles: And they were underperforming. And I, and I had said something. That was, um, you know, I didn't think of it at the time as being derogatory, but I was like, I guys, I'm watching the shift. I see you guys, what you're doing, you're talking and carrying around like it's, you know, still, like you're still the number one shift in the building and you're not mm-hmm.

[00:59:58] Giles: Guys the worst [01:00:00] performing shift and Colin's over here trying to do everything you can. We're short an operations manager and, and that's why I'm here today. Like, I'm trying to figure out like how can we, you know, do some of these things better? And, you know, some of the, the, the senior, and these are hourly employees, but they, they, they're all mo not most, most of the senior people that were, that I relied on essentially to run that shift.

[01:00:24] Giles: 'cause that's how Amazon works. They took offense, they came up afterwards, they're like, [01:00:30] Giles, we love you. You can't talk to us like that. You know, you need to pull us aside first and have this conversation. Mm-hmm. Not do it publicly. And I was like, you know what? I know this. In the, in the Marine Corps, we talked this about commend in public and uh, you know, if you're gonna reprieve in private Right?

[01:00:47] Giles: Yeah. Or correct in private. Yeah. Um, and so, you know, I, it was just, it was just this, you know, one of those things I hadn't really thought too well through. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, it was frustrating and I think [01:01:00] sometimes we, you know, let emotions get in the way. I think, um, you know, to answer your question, my how has my leadership style kind of changed?

[01:01:09] Giles: Well, fortunately right now I have 10 90 nines, right? So I don't have employees, I gotta treat them like they're business owners 'cause they are business owners and all of my clients are business owners. And so I think the things that I learned from Amazon that carry over are the same things that I knew, um, from, from the Marine Corps.

[01:01:28] Giles: Um, and, [01:01:30] you know, growing up Catholic, Christian, um, you know, treat other people as, as you would want to be treated. Mm-hmm. You know, one of the things that I always looked at, at the rank structure in the Marine Corps is like, yeah, you know, these guys will listen, but may, you know, maybe they won't. Hmm.

[01:01:43] Giles: Right. Yeah. And, and they won't listen to you if they don't trust you. Mm-hmm. Right. And so the plenty of experience seeing that and hearing about that in the Marine Corps, you, and we, we've heard the stories of Vietnam, you know, where officers, [01:02:00] you know, out in combat would get flagged if they didn't, you treat their, their soldiers or marines.

[01:02:06] Giles: Like they, like, they deserve to be treated. Mm-hmm. And, uh, some of, some of those basis is just how we're brought up. Whether you're a team sport player, I know you play football. I grew up playing lacrosse. My dad was a coach, so you, you saw it firsthand. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, it's, uh, you know that, I think that's the number one thing.

[01:02:26] Giles: Be humble. Um, you know, I probably [01:02:30] wasn't as patient when I first got out. Right. And I went to Amazon because I was used to, you know, pushing through and getting it done. Mm-hmm. And, um, you know, Amazon on the managerial side like is very much like that. Mm-hmm. But, you know, a lot of the performance metrics that drove that business, uh, 'cause you know, in retail you're talking about very slim margins.

[01:02:55] Giles: Mm-hmm. Operations was, you know, the stories of operations and how, [01:03:00] you know, Amazon, north, north American customer fulfillment operations used to run mm-hmm. Are real. Right. Like it was incredible. Yeah. Um, what our associates did, um, the belief in customer obsession, I. Uh, diving deep into your metrics and really understanding your business mm-hmm.

[01:03:19] Giles: And how, you know, a, a, a slight change in, you know, just where you might be working in a building mm-hmm. Could affect 15 minutes of performance for, you know, an [01:03:30] element of your, of your workforce. Mm-hmm. You sending people home if they wanted to go home early, can, can save you a lot of money, um, in the business.

[01:03:38] Giles: Um, I mean, we're, we're pinching pennies mm-hmm. In, in Amazon. And, uh, AWS is just not that culture. Mm. It's just, uh, the culture at AWS is not the same. The leadership there was not the same. Mm-hmm. The client problems was completely different because then I was back to working, you know, on intelligence and, [01:04:00] and, um, you know, DOD classified problems and Right.

[01:04:03] Giles: You know, and unclassified problems. Um, but, but, um, you know, it, it was huge learning, uh, learning experience, I think. The great things about what the Marine Corps p, you know, and services prepare leaders for are kind of, kind of like, they, they might sound like buzzwords, but it's that improvise, adapt, and owner can, like, overcome, understand your [01:04:30] business.

[01:04:30] Giles: Mm-hmm. Um, I was an advisor. You couldn't, I couldn't go into, you know, a, a province in Iraq or a, a Afghanistan that I or my people didn't understand. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, and, and you know, that's understanding from, you know, the culture to the language to, you know, who our friends, who to trust. Right. The threats, you know, who we're working with.

[01:04:56] Giles: Mm-hmm. Creating those relationships. And so whether that was, [01:05:00] you know, bilateral with, you know, uh, our partners or that was, you know, actually, you know. Fellow Marines or coalition force, or state Department. Mm-hmm. Um, and so it's really working across those, um, relationships and that's, yeah. No different than than business.

[01:05:17] Giles: What recommendations would you give fellow veterans who are transitioning to civilian life from military to follow your path or just kind of integrate themselves [01:05:30] for success in the civilian sector? Yeah, that is a great question. Um, I think, I think it's, it's, it's a fair question to, to expand that to all the government service personnel to have just, you know, potentially lost their jobs.

[01:05:45] Giles: Especially, you know, you, like, you look at the government service personnel that lost their jobs and you think about like, some of these like kids mm-hmm. That just accepted government work. Right? Right. And like, I'm gonna start my first job, it's gonna be with the government. No, you're not. And they got whacked.

[01:05:59] Giles: [01:06:00] Right. You got whacked. Yeah. Right. So I would say this, that these. Whether you have experience or not if business is in your blood or there's an inkling there to start a business form an LLC for, for the veterans, like how that could play out, whether they do a trade or, you know, they get into construction or, you know, another fast growing industry in the area that they're going to wind up moving to.[01:06:30] 

[01:06:30] Giles: If, if you start an LLC and you're a veteran and you, you know, I'm free on weekends or I could, you know, I could go out and be a role player, right? Um, there's role, role-playing gigs out there, you know, for, for, you know, staff staffers that can pay pretty well. And then even for, you know, individual role playing, you know, if you're gonna do, I dunno, combat triage or whatever.

[01:06:57] Giles: Mm-hmm. Um, be a role player in one of [01:07:00] those organizations. You know, it's hourly, but they'll, they pay your airfare, they cover your food. Mm-hmm. Um, it's another way to supplement your income. Mm-hmm. Um, and you put that in an LLC instead of taking that income as W2. Right. Yeah. Then, then you, you know, you're actually gonna start building a little nest egg to do what you really want to do, right?

[01:07:22] Giles: Mm-hmm. And maybe you don't know what you want to do, right? Mm-hmm. Um, our transition programs are really geared [01:07:30] towards employment. Mm-hmm. Right? We're gonna help our transitioning service members find a full-time job. Well, that's great, but that's not for everybody, and especially the guys that want to actually move into a trade.

[01:07:41] Giles: Mm-hmm. Right. Or they wanna move into the construc construction industry. Mm-hmm. Um, the certifications that the, you know, you can currently get for free through some incredible nonprofits like. Syracuse University's Institute for Veterans and Military Families. [01:08:00] Um, they're all technical on, you know, the, like, what we would know mm-hmm.

[01:08:05] Giles: Security A plus, you know, um, um, it, it runs the gamut. Like you can get Google certifications, AWS it is all kind, all free. Mm-hmm. Right. They can get PMP. Mm-hmm. Um, I actually did the PMP program and I, oh my gosh. Like I, uh, I met some of the PMP guys and I was like, oh my God. This, this is where [01:08:30] like military decision making and planning.

[01:08:33] Giles: Um, and our process is incredible. Yeah. It's, it's a rigorous Yeah. Course. And, and our rapid, so R two, P two. Mm-hmm. Uh, rapid response planning process. Incredible. And so I started going through p and p. I was like, man, this is bureaucratic. Like this is this, this is how, yeah. Program programs are actually managed in the government.

[01:08:54] Giles: Right. This is why the process is broken. Exactly. Like [01:09:00] I do not want to do this. Right. Yeah. So when I was interviewing, I actually, I think, you know, the last piece of advice I would give is, this is the long story short, why I told the PMP story, um, is really figure out what certifications you can invest your time in.

[01:09:16] Giles: Mm-hmm. Right? Ask the question when you're interviewing, is this certification valued mm-hmm. At AWS or Amazon? The answer at Amazon, Amazon was no. So I was like, I'm, [01:09:30] I'm done. Not done. That's right. Yeah. Right. You don't value. But then they said, well, if you ever move to AWS, they value it there. And so I talked to the, the program manager on base, he's like, yeah, just finish the program.

[01:09:41] Giles: Yeah. You know, don't worry. I like, all right, I'm out. Right. So I did, but. I wish I had invested my time in a different certification. Mm-hmm. That was a mistake. Mm-hmm. So if, if, you know, others can learn from that, you know, I hope they do. Mm-hmm. Um, but I would say start a business, um, [01:10:00] you, you know, more than you think, you know.

[01:10:02] Giles: Mm-hmm. Um, uh, find mentors and it's not, it used to be like, find a mentor and they're like, what does that mean? Just find people you can talk to. Mm-hmm. Um, if, you know, uh, you want to move into a certain industry, you, let's say you don't, uh, there are free mentorship programs that are out there, whether it's American Corporate Partners or hire Heroes, USA.

[01:10:24] Giles: Mm-hmm. But find mentors and. Like leverage that, get on [01:10:30] LinkedIn, leverage the network, you know, find people to talk to, to learn about the industries that you're interested in going into. Mm-hmm. Um, because having those, you know, 50 cups of coffee, 500 cups of coffee, or however many mm-hmm. That you need to have digitally or in person, um, is how you're gonna learn.

[01:10:47] Giles: Mm-hmm. Um, so that's like, you know, one of those, like catchalls, like you have to have a learning mindset, right? Right. Whether it's I've got a skills gap in getting a certification, or I've, I don't know anything about this [01:11:00] industry. Mm-hmm. Um, I think the last thing, um, I, in their communication approach is to be humble.

[01:11:08] Giles: Mm-hmm. There's a lot of, you know, I've had a couple of these experiences where the service member was upset because I had to reschedule and I was like, it was like. Dude, this is how it is. Right? Right. Mm. Business comes first. Mm-hmm. You're important. Your service [01:11:30] was important. Right. And you're important to me, and I'm gonna get back to you.

[01:11:33] Giles: Right. But you're rescheduled. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, um, I never rescheduled anyone personally for a, like a personal commitment. Mm-hmm. But, you know, if it was Amazon or a WSI often did that. If you've ever consider doing like a two day bootcamp on educating lessons learned best practices for transition for militaries in a civilian, I'd love to partner with you on that.

[01:11:58] Giles: Oh my gosh, that'd be great. We could do it [01:12:00] right here in Surf City. Yeah. I, I do it. I, um, I, I didn't tell, I've never told you this. I, I, I volunteer on base, um, and I used to give seminars like they, they. Pull in some, some business, uh, folks, when I was in Amazon operations and a WSI used to go in and they would have these, uh, it's like a, it's called TRS Transition Readiness Seminar R.

[01:12:24] Giles: Mm-hmm. And then they have the Executive transition seminar. So they pull me in and I give, you know, the 45 minute [01:12:30] overview of Amazon and AWS or Big Bear when I was there. Right. And then, um, yeah, I just haven't done it recently, but, uh, yeah, I used to used to do that all the time. I'd be happy to do it.

[01:12:40] Giles: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we could either go on, on site or, yes. Even Northern Virginia, you know. Oh, a hundred percent. Actually, you know what I was thinking about your hotel last night? Um, not 'cause I live right next door. I was like, you know what? I gotta tell Richard, like business idea wise. You guys can market that with all the reservists [01:13:00] coming in.

[01:13:00] Giles: Mm-hmm. Um, market it on base and you know, a lot of these guys, when they get reserve orders, they'd love to bring their families down for a week or week, you know, they're on two week orders. Right. Right. We have a military discount, boom. We have standing military discount. Yeah. So maybe I'll, um, I'll find some, some of the m CCCs POCs for you that I have.

[01:13:19] Giles: Right. And I'll push 'em, push 'em to you. That's awesome. So you can engage on that. Yeah. Going back to the companies that you, you support with odx, are they veteran owned [01:13:30] businesses or? Ironically, my first, I think the reason why he was like my first client, so I, I finished working on. You know, basically when I was told I was Rift, I was like, I'm starting my own cup.

[01:13:41] Giles: This is the greatest opportunity I've ever had. And so by Monday, you know, I called Terrence and, and he was the CEO of Dream Factory, and I was like, oh my God. Dream fact, when I learned about Dream Factory at Defense Unicorns, I was like, man, like this is the answer. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's rest API platform.

[01:13:59] Giles: So [01:14:00] unlocking data databases and legacy systems, there's 165 legacy systems in the US government just sitting there. Right. That systems integrators have just been milking, right. For just, uh, it's cobalt. Yeah. We can solve that. You're the only company that can, right, right. And so, right. Um, at any rate, um, dream Factory, uh, when I got the, you know, the brief on, I was like, holy smokes.

[01:14:27] Giles: So I, I called Terrance, I was like, Hey, I just got [01:14:30] riffed at, at defense Unicorns. We'd love to work with you. You know, he's like, let's talk on Monday. And literally signed him on Monday. And, um, that's great. Been working with him ever since. Yeah. Um, but I tell you that because he, he, he wa he wa it was a Naval, um, uh, Intel officer.

[01:14:47] Giles: Mm-hmm. And, um, you know, so I signed him. Um, the other company I had tell you about Dain that they're also, I got, um, company Guide padd, which is platform at as [01:15:00] data at Runtime. Mm-hmm. Like incredible capability. Right. Um, they, they, uh, are run by a prior government contractor. Mm-hmm. Um, the founder there, the other founder is just incredibly brilliant act from, uh, academia and business.

[01:15:15] Giles: Um, worked on the Olympics. Mm-hmm. And, you know, all the data at runtime for the Olympics, so, right. Um, for Visa when, so he was doing that for Visa when he went contract. And then, um, you know, signed, uh, you know, a couple, [01:15:30] uh, other great companies, one of which is in stealth. Uh, they'll probably come outta stealth in, in October, um, September.

[01:15:39] Giles: But, uh, think of, uh, a, a problem for, you know, we have solutions in, in industry for data in transit. We have solutions for, uh, data at rest. What about the actual application and the data in process? Right. And so he's got proprietary, um, ip. Mm-hmm. Um, and, uh, a [01:16:00] solution for that. Mm-hmm. Um, so super excited about that company.

[01:16:04] Giles: Obviously talked about Dane Systems. Uh, I have another company, uh, Prometheus Intelligence that I work with. Mm-hmm. Um, or Pro Intel. Pro Intel is great. They have a, a hardware and software, uh, solution for, um, it's an agentic ai. Mm-hmm. So, uh, it's to help, um, service members, DHS members or whoever might be doing an interview.[01:16:30] 

[01:16:30] Giles: Mm-hmm. So if you think at the border, they're doing it, you know, just. Tactical questioning. Mm-hmm. Or an interview. Uh, it can help, uh, that individual through that process. Do you vet the technology? Oh, yeah. Or you, you put it in your portfolio? Yes. Okay. I vet the, the, the, the clients and their technology before, um, I decide to work with them.

[01:16:51] Giles: So there's a level of success that you've already kind of generated in your own mind? Oh, yeah. As far as like, I can help you. I understand the client. Yes. I [01:17:00] know their need. Your technology's a great fit. Yes. Let's get going. Yes, a hundred percent. So it's almost as if, like, you, you've created your own intel to some degree.

[01:17:11] Giles: Well, except you're not investing. Yes. The model is going to be built to that. Well, I would, I would tell you. Depends on the contract. Okay. I, I may be invested. Or I may be investing or another idea. You could have a pool of VCs ready to invest [01:17:30] some seed capital. Okay. So now you're getting into the growth of, you know, what is the growth of OODAx and the platform?

[01:17:37] Giles: Yeah, absolutely. You know, um, we talk about like legs of a stool. Mm-hmm. If it's a three-legged stool, I would say this ab abstracting problems for startups to accelerate them into government. Right. That, so that might be BD as a service. Mm-hmm. But there's gonna be some other things that we do there, uh, to help those comp companies [01:18:00] functionally, um, deliver Mm.

[01:18:02] Giles: Their capability. Right. Um, another leg of the stool is gonna be those affiliations and partnerships. Mm-hmm. Uh, so I, you know, I think I told you I'm partnered, um, and affiliated with the military veteran, uh, incredible organization. Um, they do. Placement of veterans. Um, they have, uh, you know, access to the, the pipeline of service to school, which is a nonprofit mm-hmm.

[01:18:27] Giles: That, um, you know, they work together [01:18:30] with, and, and you have, you know, veterans going to the top 25 MBA programs in the United States, and they come out and Right. Where are we gonna work? Right? Mm-hmm. So it might be through opportunities with a military veteran. Um, it could, could not, right. It was like go out in the marketplace on their own.

[01:18:45] Giles: Mm-hmm. But, um, through that organization, uh, one of the founders of service to school and the military veteran is Tim Shaw. Tim Tim works with Context vc and, you know, I've just been blessed to have a good relationship with him and his team. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I've got another [01:19:00] partnership, and through that partnership, the, you know, they work with some other, you know, venture capitalists on mm-hmm.

[01:19:06] Giles: Extremely high end, you know, if we drop names, like you would instantly know who they are. Um, and then, you know, I got second front systems and a couple others that are in the works right now. That's great. Are you familiar with the group called Moonshot Capital? Oh yeah. Moonshot Capital. So, you know, they're great.

[01:19:23] Giles: Harpoon Ventures, you know Larson Vincent, they're very, so they're, they're military focused startup. Oh, they're incredible startups. Scout [01:19:30] ventures. Yeah. Um, they're great. Um, one of the people I work with in, um, military, um, veteran along with Tim Shaw has like a ton of experience in, in the VC world. So I'll, you know, index off asking her questions.

[01:19:45] Giles: Mm-hmm. We get to, when we get to that point. Uh, in fact, you know, you're putting nuggets in, in my head, like, should be a great person that I can bring on, um, you know, to help me like with, with you, um, you know, down the road. That's awesome. Yeah. So [01:20:00] you mentioned AI a few times here, and I know we talked about it last night.

[01:20:04] Giles: What is your thoughts on the vision of autonomous AI and how it's going to change for the, for the good, uh, the DOD innovation pipeline and landscape? Yes. I think, I think we're seeing it, um, right now, I think it's at work right now, whether, you know, they use it in trade winds, um, you know, in in matching capabilities.

[01:20:28] Giles: I know Vulcan, you know, we talked [01:20:30] about the SOCOM kind of front door. And front door is a, is a great analogy. Like what is the front door for a company to work with the US government or DOD, they're, they're really. There, there isn't one. Right? There's so many different front doors, and that's really sam.gov.

[01:20:47] Giles: There's 46 different, um, you know, open APIs that you can pull. Mm-hmm. Right. Opportunities from, uh, then you could have an account it's at, at at Vulcan with SOCOM or, you know, all the [01:21:00] entities that are using that. It's not just SOCOM started, it started with socom. Um, but, you know, managing all this is, is, is, is cumbersome to a startup.

[01:21:10] Giles: But the, the question is really like, how is the government gonna use, uh, AI and, and, and really a GI I'm, I'm not sure on a GII don't want n necessarily go, they're, they're using AI now on matching one. One of the opportunities we answered at, uh, when I was at Defense User Corps, so [01:21:30] it was, you know, um, O-U-S-D-A and S so acquisition and sustainment was looking.

[01:21:35] Giles: For a capability to match commercial technologies. Mm-hmm. Um, to either requirements or ideas. Right. Um, and it was called the concierge project. And so, you know, we, we submitted like, this is how you could do it. Um, there are companies that can deliver on that right now. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, uh, use Rogue, [01:22:00] um, and what that company is able to do, um, in matching, um, is in incredible.

[01:22:07] Giles: Mm-hmm. Um, but there are AI tools that the government can use internally. There are marketplaces that are already using a rubric and ai. Mm-hmm. They have what we talked about last night, a human in the loop. Mm-hmm. I think you're gonna see, you know, the future is, I think you're seeing it now. Mm-hmm. Um.[01:22:30] 

[01:22:30] Giles: Human in the loop was kind of written in as a requirement or an idea. It's not a true requirement. Mm-hmm. And you're seeing industry pick up on what the government is laying down. Mm-hmm. And the government is starting to walk out, walk backwards mm-hmm. From having a, a human in the loop, which presents some, some, some risk.

[01:22:54] Giles: Mm-hmm. Um, when we start talking about AI and, you know, how data is [01:23:00] labeled Right. And, you know, at this point data is labeled, you know, with agents and, and ai mm-hmm. Um, at scale. And so, um, trusted AI is built off of this. Mm-hmm. Right. Is AI gonna be smart enough in the future to relabel data? Um, yeah.

[01:23:21] Giles: Right. We're talking about a GI at this point. Yeah. Have you? Um, absolutely. Yeah. Right. The risks, if we can think of the [01:23:30] problem. Yeah. So can ai. Right, right. And so the danger is when AI and a GI can outthink us at scale. Yeah. Right. And, and you hear Sam Al Altman, they're, they're like, it's around the corner, you know?

[01:23:47] Giles: It's, it's, it's on us. Um, you know, there's, there's so much that you can, you can ab Yeah. So one of those things that, you know, like I talked to, you know, some of my companies, you know, another is Ava Watts. Incredible. We talked [01:24:00] about data labeling. You know, I signed to Ava Watts two months ago, and they have a, uh, capability.

[01:24:06] Giles: It's, it's a little bit more robust than, you know, what scale AI has, but mm-hmm. Uh, it can accelerate the delivery of, of mm-hmm. Of AI models, right? Because it automates. Um, data label labeling in a trusted way. Right. Um, and it's, it's just these companies that are out there, you know, government may know about it, government may not.

[01:24:29] Giles: They're gonna use [01:24:30] AI to learn about it. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Um, which could present problems, right? Yeah. Which AI are they using? Where exactly, what is, what is, uh, known about these companies, right? Yeah. What are the companies advertising that's not real, right? We've, we've lived that world, right? Yeah. Right. It is like, have you vetted these capabilities?

[01:24:51] Giles: It's a great question. You have to vet the capability, right? Yeah. Because there's plenty of founders out there that might talk about, um, you know, vapor, [01:25:00] whether it's in software, could be vaporware, um, could be hardware. It doesn't do what it says, right? Yeah. You know, a lot of these founders you like in the hardware business are using the trusted supply chain.

[01:25:11] Giles: Mm-hmm. What's that? Mm-hmm. Well. Let's have that conversation on trusted supply chain. Yeah. Um, because, uh, you know, and we're, we're seeing that in software, you know, CMMC. Mm-hmm. Right. And, um, you know, do you have your a TO, do you have a plan for your, A lot of times now I wanna be, [01:25:30] do you have your plan for your A TO or do you have interim, it's like access authorization.

[01:25:35] Giles: Mm-hmm. Um, you know, your provisional atos, things like that. So, um, you know, plenty of obstacles for founders, um, right now, but I think, you know, will the government, the question is, will the government be using AI to help. Make sense of all this. I think they already are. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, how far will that go and how far will the government trust [01:26:00] could, could we get to the point where there's Skynet and, you know, well, if we can think about it and see it in movies, right.

[01:26:06] Giles: Whether it's, it's, yeah. It's, well, a hundred percent our adversaries are on that path. Yes. You know, they've, they've been doing surveillance and at scale Yes. Digital surveillance. Yes. Um, of their own people. Of their own people, yeah. Yeah. The you girls and Yeah. Hearing your description reminds me, have you, have you seen this, uh, show on HBO called Silicon Valley?

[01:26:29] Giles: I haven't seen it yet. [01:26:30] It's, it's, it's before it's time. It's really, really funny. But there's one scene where the software developer creates its own ai, um, bot, and he, and he told the AI bot to go clean up all the bugs and the code. It erased every bit of software. What could go wrong? And the founder's like freaking out, like, what the hell happened?

[01:26:55] Giles: How come your, your, you know, your AI bot erased all of the [01:27:00] code? Like, where did it go? He says, well, I guess it felt the most efficient way to clean the bugs. Wants to delete the software. It's clean. It's clean, but it's, it's true. Like, you know, those type of things need to be properly vetted. And because you can't, you know, as your, as your, what you said, you have to have a human in the loop to oversee, monitor, adapt, and, and, and maintain.

[01:27:24] Giles: Because otherwise these computers are gonna go run at scale and yeah, it, it's [01:27:30] absolutely outta control. The fact that they're walking that back though is, is, is, is, um, I, I, it's not, it's not alarming, but it's like, I think, I think the government, I, I don't think the government, I. Nos. It hasn't been like communicate, there's no like, message Yeah.

[01:27:45] Giles: To observer, right. We say like, message to observer. So there's no, uh, you know, I, I could only imagine some of the calls that I was on early on. You know, I would hear, um, government representatives, military members, senior leaders say, [01:28:00] I want to know when something was generated by ai. Mm-hmm. Like everything, right?

[01:28:07] Giles: At some point Right. Is going to have some bit of AI in it. Yeah. Um, and so, uh, you know, what's in the realm of the possible, um, yeah. It's, I I don't know if we know what, what we're in for. What AI tools do you use for your business? Oh, to as, as far as L LLMs, my, my, you know, my favorite, [01:28:30] so, so this kind of gets back to a previous.

[01:28:33] Giles: Know bit where I was, you know, be brief, be brilliant, be gone. Right. And I wasn't being brief. Yeah. So, um, when I was at defense unicorns, there was a question on like whether or not we were gonna start using AI and LLMs on our proposals. And it was a, it was a, it was more of a conversation than a direction.

[01:28:52] Giles: Mm-hmm. And we started playing with it. Some of the guys were open about whether or not they were playing with it and some of 'em weren't. Um, [01:29:00] but I mean, it was, it was incredible. Um, I, I hadn't used perplexity at that time. Soche BT first mm-hmm. Wasn't really impressed. It's gotten really good. Che GPT is really good.

[01:29:12] Giles: You have four and 4.5 are are previous? Um, I, yeah, I'm using 4.5. Yeah. Um, I, perplexity is incredible to give you summaries and, um, but if you're gonna write your right paper, um, or you're gonna write, um, you know, my, my [01:29:30] recommendation. To, to companies is to start u use, use the LLMs for your outline. Tweak it.

[01:29:40] Giles: Yeah. A lot of times what you'll see, and I don't know why, but what's the way the, it's, it, it works is, uh, they'll, they'll offer like strategic impact at the very end mm-hmm. Of the, as a, it'll be part like right before the summary. Right. It'll do like a technical, you know, a matching, so your technical attribute matching.[01:30:00] 

[01:30:00] Giles: And then there'll be like strategic impact. I mean, these, these companies need to know, you have to put, when you're talking to the DOD, your strategic input mm-hmm. Uh, or strategic impact upfront. Right. That's gonna be maybe the only paragraph that is ever read. Mm-hmm. Right. And that's the other thing that the, you know, founders should realize, like spend a lot of time on a 30 page proposal or a five page white paper, or, you know, 10 page white, probably a paragraph.

[01:30:25] Giles: Mm-hmm. Or it's going in and to ai and you're getting a summary out of it. Right. Right. [01:30:30] Yeah. So what, what do you want that to look like? Mm-hmm. And so they could use a small language model mm-hmm. On their own devices mm-hmm. To see what that output will be. Mm-hmm. That's a technique. Right? Right. Yeah. So, so what, uh, I, I use, uh, grok is amazing.

[01:30:47] Giles: Um, chat, GPT and gr and then perplexity. Those are, those are my go-tos. How about Claude? Yeah, I'm go to probably, yeah. Um, I'm gonna probably, I haven't, I haven't, um, [01:31:00] I was actually thinking about using Claude Sonnet just to run my mm-hmm. Matching tool through Yeah. Um, clean this up, clean this carpet chop.

[01:31:10] Giles: Yeah. Yeah. But it, it is interesting. Yeah. Like, I, I'll use it, those tools you described, I'll throw things up in there that I've already analyzed and I'm like, okay, analyze this. Tell me, yeah. What am I missing? Like, what are the gaps? Give me a summary and tell me what, if you were a vc, what would you be [01:31:30] asking and what would you look for?

[01:31:31] Giles: Oh, incredible. That's great. And it actually does a pretty good job. Yeah. Like, you know, it'll, it'll throw some interesting things like, and I'm like, okay, balance that off of the 2030 projections in this industry, or whatever the tam, you know, is this something that you think is gonna be nichey or is it gonna have some, some traction?

[01:31:48] Giles: Um, yeah, it does, does a fairly good job. That's awesome. Yeah. I, I haven't, I hadn't seen thought of it, even the VC even preparing for this podcast like that. Really? Yeah. Wow. I'll, I'll say, tell me everything about Giles, [01:32:00] you know, and it spits out a bunch of information. I'm like, oh, that's interesting.

[01:32:03] Giles: Expand on his background in the Marine Corps, you know? Wow. You know, or, you know, tell me some questions to ask 'em on a podcast. Um, now, I mean, a couple of these questions did come from chat GPT for, for the record. Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah. Yeah. But it's, it's interesting because I think it leans more on our creativity.

[01:32:21] Giles: Yeah. Like, let's focus on the prompts. Gimme a really good prompt. Yeah. That can, that's absolutely right. You know, so, so, um, for the GovCon [01:32:30] conversation, um, that is, you know, like, absolutely Isaac, so like one of my t tactics needs and procedures in, in proposals. And this is, you know, a conversation I, I have with, uh, the BizOps, uh, gal over at Dream Factory.

[01:32:44] Giles: You know, when I'm done with the drafts and I've got their input, like the last step in the process is send it back through chat GPT. Mm-hmm. Like if you're a contracting officer in the Air Force, you know, and you received this for [01:33:00] what's your, you know, what's your key takeaways? Right. Right. And if it's not giving me the key takeaways that match the requirements in the solicitation mm-hmm.

[01:33:10] Giles: We haven't done a very good job. Right. Right. Yeah. And so it's an honesty trace. You know, what we, you know, goes back to were you prepared to start a business coming out of the Marine Corps? You know, honesty trace is a concept where, you know, when you go out on a patrol, uh, or you plan a patrol, um, or you're going out to [01:33:30] see, you know, um, um, you know, for a key leader engagement.

[01:33:34] Giles: Mm-hmm. But typically for a patrol. What routes did I use, right? Mm-hmm. This is, this is the route. Use this X, Y, and Z. And then the honesty trace basically is, all right, you're, you come back from your operation and you say, all right, this was our planned route. Mm. This is where we actually went. Right? So now you have the data where you, you know, the next time you're looking at, all right, I'm gonna plant my route so I don't go strike an [01:34:00] IED.

[01:34:00] Giles: Mm-hmm. Right. On a route that I have used previously. Mm-hmm. And sometimes, you know, our military members are, you know, they're restricted by the terrain or, you know, the, the routes available. Right. But, um, same thing in business. Mm-hmm. You, you have to have a, a clear honesty trace. Um, this is what I plan to do, this is what I actually did.

[01:34:17] Giles: Mm-hmm. Does it match the intent of, you know? Right, right. And then does it prepare me for the next iteration? That's right. What lessons should I learn going forward? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you dropping by [01:34:30] having this conversation and just explaining your background and your business and all the interesting things that you're doing.

[01:34:36] Giles: Um, so congratulations on your success. It's, it's phenomenal. How can clients reach you if anybody's listening to this podcast and they're interested in using your services? Sure. Um, they could reach out to me on email, so it's my first name, Giles. So G-I-L-E-S do Walker, W-L-G-E-R, at. Oda, X-O-O-O-D-A x.net.

[01:34:59] Giles: Mm-hmm. [01:35:00] Um, the URL is the same. It's HTPS oex uh, dot net. Wonderful to get some feedback on, on the website. 'cause I just finished that. Had a really good mentor get me through, um, the logo and, you know, a lot of the design work 'cause I, you know, I was a little bit off center. Uh, but that was, that was four nights of, of coffee.

[01:35:22] Giles: Yeah. And a positive attitude. Yeah. Uh, to punch that out. And then on LinkedIn, uh, they can also get me on, um, [01:35:30] uh, you know, regular LinkedIn URL and Charles Walker. Well, I'm definitely interested in staying in touch and learning how we can help bridge the gap to, uh, help your business thrive in the DOD.

[01:35:40] Giles: Well, I appreciate the opportunity. Come on, Richard. And obviously, you know, we look forward to doing business with you in the future. And any, any, uh, I'll take any helpful hints. Likewise, it goes both ways. Thank you, sir. I appreciate you. Yes, sir. Have a good day. 

Christa: Amplified CEO is produced by Topsail Insider, edited by [01:36:00] Jim Mendes-Pouget. And sponsored by Cape Fear Ventures. For more information about Amplified CEO, Richard Stroupe, or Cape Fear Ventures, please contact Christa at 910-800-0111 or christa@topsailinsider.com.