Lessons in Sales from a Former History Teacher

Rob shares his intriguing journey from earning a degree in history and teaching high school to thriving in the life sciences industry for over 15 years. He discusses the deliberate decisions and natural inclinations that led him to transition into sales and marketing in medical imaging. His career path weaves through various roles in startups and family-owned businesses, where Rob's ability to present and deliver valuable information played a crucial role. Emphasizing the importance of empathy, transparency, and understanding in sales, the speaker offers valuable insights into today's rapidly changing landscape. He highlights how AI and technology are revolutionizing lead generation and sales strategy while underscoring that personal relationships and genuine human connections remain irreplaceable. The episode is a testament to how diverse educational backgrounds and skill sets can contribute to success in the life sciences, reminding listeners that ambition, adaptability, and a focus on making others happy are key drivers of long-term success.

00:00 From History Teacher to Life Science Professional
01:42 Transitioning to Sales and Marketing
02:31 Entering the Medical Imaging Industry
05:32 Joining Gilson and Learning Liquid Handling
09:57 The Importance of Customer Happiness in Sales
13:13 The Evolution of Sales Techniques
17:10 The Importance of Face-to-Face Meetings
17:39 Balancing Technology and Human Interaction
18:28 Customer Expectations in the Modern Era
21:25 The Future of Drug Discovery
23:01 AI's Role in Sales and Customer Interaction
27:13 The Potential of Virtual Reality in Sales
31:12 Sales Training and Approaches

Transcript

[00:00:00] Patrick: You definitely intrigued me when you said you started your university degree in history, actually finished your degree in history, saw in your background that you actually taught for a bit in high school. So I'm fascinated to, find out how you went from that to where you are now.

[00:00:17] Patrick: Obviously you've been in the life science industry for a long time now, over what, 10, 15 years now.

[00:00:22] Rob: I

[00:00:22] Patrick: so

[00:00:23] Rob: It started in a different area of science, if you will, and kind of migrated its way over to

[00:00:29] Patrick: I.

[00:00:30] Rob: am now. And it's, it was a very like purposed and intentional. A journey, right? So I went to school and graduated with a history degree and secondary education certification.

[00:00:43] Rob: So I wanted to go into that noble profession of teaching. 

[00:00:47] Patrick: Okay.

[00:00:48] Rob: it is a noble profession and it's very important that we have great teachers. And I did it for a couple of years and the part that I really liked about it was able to. Deliver information to my kids and help them to succeed.

[00:01:04] Rob: Like those were the things that I really liked about teaching. What I found out was over those two years that I probably wasn't the best teacher that those kids needed. And the parts that I really enjoyed weren't necessarily the parts that they needed the most as students, but they really liked me. My supervisors really liked me. The parents liked me and I, and I liked them genuinely. And I love the job, but wasn't totally fulfilled and frankly, I was hoping to make more money. And teaching doesn't pay necessarily a great amount of money. You're never gonna get rich teaching.

[00:01:42] Rob: So, I went and looked for options to utilize some of those skills of presenting and delivering information and content and helping people to succeed. so I landed on sales and marketing locally at a medical imaging center. And so I worked in the office as a marketing person.

[00:02:02] Rob: I helped them to get. Local doctors to refer their patients to the imaging center for MRIs. And then it kind of migrated into,

[00:02:11] Patrick: Was that a fluke? Did you just apply everywhere and whoever got you, that's how you're gonna.

[00:02:16] Rob: people in the, I knew people that worked there, and so it was a networking type of thing.

[00:02:22] Patrick: Oh

[00:02:22] Rob: so having that job for quite a, a few years I think I was there. Four years or so, five years, somewhere around there. And an MRI add-on device company approached me and, basically recruited me, they wanted to know if I would consider working for

[00:02:38] Patrick: Really?

[00:02:39] Rob: sell an add-on device for an MRI system that would allow for 3D models to be generated from the T one and T two times a flight and phase contrast, which is just all. Bunch of words for data, basically. And it takes that data from the imager and constructs a 3D model of vasculature.

[00:02:57] Rob: It gives doctors a different data point to kind of give a prognosis or a diagnosis. And so that was a startup company as startups tend to do, they kind of are a little rocky or shaky at times. So the writing on the wall was, I need to look for a different job pretty quickly.

[00:03:12] Patrick: You know what was interesting about that is that I guess your history at that point meant squat, right?

[00:03:18] Rob: So history. In, in as a, as a major, teaches people really to dig in deep into information and how to find the best and most accurate information. It's sort of like a, it's a science of sorts in that you kind of, you know, look at the information from the past and kind of report on it as a president.

[00:03:42] Rob: So, but you're gathering this information, this data, this proof to prove your hypothesis, but it's a different type of hypothesis, you know? So.

[00:03:51] Patrick: Gotcha. Yeah. No. So you learned those skills in university and you applied them in this job. What I meant by that is, you know, there's this notion where, you know, just get a degree and that'll open a door for whatever, right? And it seemed to like be true in your case, and one thing I want to tell people is like, you don't need to have a science degree to be in this industry. You can come from, and you're the perfect example of that. You can come from anywhere and be part of this amazing industry that helps better humanity. And so that's what I meant by that is like at that point, whether you had a history or psychology degree or math degree, at that point, it was just, you were already in a door with that degree.

[00:04:25] Patrick: So it's just a matter of you and your ambition and your willingness to learn. Right. Which is great.

[00:04:30] Rob: And again, I kind of shifted gears and pivoted and found a local company in South Jersey that was a manufacturer of scientific like equipment. so I used my experience with just the sales and marketing into a more technical sale

[00:04:47] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:04:48] Rob: MRI. Device to kind of, you know, bolster my resume to show that I can grab onto information, and process it, and digest it and then use it to my advantage out in the field. And so I worked for this company for about a year, year and a half. They made glassware. Biological glassware, a lot of cell culture products, rockers shakers, stirs incubators. I sold bioreactors, you know, you name it. I, sold what you see on the bench and what you see on the floor and specifically around cell culture.

[00:05:20] Rob: That was like their bread and butter. So I got some experience there with cells and cell biology and so forth. And picked up that information and knew enough to sell what I was selling, which was a big catalog. I approached Gilson, which is a liquid handling company. I applied for a job there because it kind of focused down what I was gonna be selling, which was liquid handling from all the things I was selling at this previous company from South Jersey. I got that job and the hiring manager, I could say his first name is Ed. So Ed hired

[00:05:53] Patrick: Okay.

[00:05:53] Rob: and it, he was great.

[00:05:55] Rob: I go on to Wisconsin for the first sales meeting to introduce me to the team and everything. And within a couple of days, ed goes, Hey guys, have some news. I'm leaving Gilson. And I said, oh, great. weird. That's a twist, you know? So.

[00:06:09] Patrick: It's like you're part of the reason why I joined. 

[00:06:11] Rob: and he was a great

[00:06:12] Patrick: See you later.

[00:06:13] Rob: and,

[00:06:13] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:06:14] Rob: I was really hoping to work for him.

[00:06:15] Rob: But. It was okay. You know, I stayed at Gilson for a few years, for four years or so, I was there and again, I learned a lot about liquid handling and the applications of those users, which was mostly immunoassays cell culture. So again, I'm kind of getting deeper and deeper into the weeds with some of my users to figure out, you know, how do I help them succeed. What can

[00:06:38] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:06:38] Rob: for them to have the best experience they can have with our products and their applications?

[00:06:43] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:06:44] Rob: along the way there,

[00:06:46] Patrick: Sounds good. I'm assuming Gilson's was a fairly bigger company than your first sales job before then, right?

[00:06:52] Rob: yeah, but the funny thing is the, all these companies so far for the

[00:06:57] Patrick: I.

[00:06:58] Rob: have been either small startups or family owned businesses, which was weird. Like I didn't realize that until recently in my career that all the companies I had worked for

[00:07:06] Patrick: How small they were.

[00:07:07] Rob: They

[00:07:07] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:07:08] Rob: Bigger, and then I kind of jumped to the next company to help them grow and get bigger,

[00:07:13] Patrick: Okay.

[00:07:14] Rob: So I've seen a trend

[00:07:15] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:07:16] Rob: I've seen that I've done this. And that wasn't necessarily intentional, but it's coincidental if nothing else.

[00:07:22] Patrick: Right, right. Yeah. You join them, you build them up and then boom, you take off to, yeah. That's good. But so you've been in sales for a long time, and when was your first formal? That's where I'm getting at. Where was your first formal sales training? Was it at Gilson before or was it after? And I want just curious.

[00:07:42] Rob: I forget

[00:07:43] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:07:43] Rob: I've had a few different sales training courses. I've been self taught along the way as well. I've read some books. Jeff Gier was always one of my favorites. His little books are great. And so just really practical advice. And so anyway, I forget if it was Gilson or not, but during Gilson I was at a vendor show.

[00:08:02] Rob: And a woman approached me from across the aisle. She was vendor as well, and she said, I need you to work for me. I oh, okay. What, what, what do you mean? And she said I see how you work with the customers. I see how you talk to people. You know what you're doing. And turns out she was working at e Bioscience and she worked under Ed, the guy that hired me at Gilson.

[00:08:26] Patrick: Oh, really?

[00:08:27] Rob: Yeah.

[00:08:28] Patrick: Small world.

[00:08:29] Rob: Yeah, so Ed left Gilson to go to ebi and I knew that when I was talking to her, but I was sure if she worked under Ed or what, but she did, and her name was Heather. And I said, but you know, you guys antibodies and proteins and, and all that. And I said, I don't, I don't know anything really deep about that.

[00:08:45] Rob: She goes, I can, I can teach you that. That's, that's easy. So I had dinner with Heather. We talked, we had a great time and, I took the offer and went to e Bioscience. And there I learned a lot thanks to her and some self, you know, education and really asking the right questions to my customers because the customers will tell you what's important to them. And you just need to ask, you know, and what's holding them up? What problems do they have? Why is it a problem? What would success mean, to them? And so those kind of taught me along the way.

[00:09:18] Patrick: Yeah, well, you make it sound so easy, Rob, and I think it's because it's natural to you. I mean, I. We've for the audience and we've worked together before and I've seen you in front of customers and you're very good at what you do. And Heather was bang on just to double down what she saw in you way back then.

[00:09:35] Patrick: And that's why I was curious about your sales training. I think you have it naturally, but I'm interested to know, what are some of the big lessons that you learned in sales early on as you were starting a career? And also what have you noticed that has changed within sales in a scientific community from when you started to now.

[00:09:55] Rob: Okay. These are good questions. So I've, used what I said earlier in the conversation that, you know, I wanna help people succeed. What I've learned is people. Want to be happy, My custom, anybody you meet

[00:10:10] Patrick: Yeah,

[00:10:10] Rob: to be

[00:10:10] Patrick: actually.

[00:10:11] Rob: Is longevity. If you have relationships with people that are happy, gonna have a long relationship. You know, husbands and wives and boyfriends and girlfriends and any whatever, relationship, interpersonal relationships and employment, professional relationships, and it applies to customers and salespeople. If your customer is not happy, if you're doing everything right, they're gonna be happy.

[00:10:35] Rob: And if you're doing everything right and they're happy, they're gonna keep buying the products and solutions that you have. And as long as they're the right solutions, my goal over time has been to just provide happiness, that's it. So if I ask the person what they want, you know, what's the problem?

[00:10:51] Rob: What's the issue? What do you wanna achieve or do gonna make them happy, right? And,

[00:10:57] Patrick: That's awesome.

[00:10:59] Rob: so I wanna help

[00:11:00] Patrick: I've never seen it like that. 

[00:11:01] Rob: I just wanna provide, you know, because once people again aren't happy, they start looking for options. Nobody's in divorce court because they're happy, they're looking for options. They wanna get outta that relationship. If you don't even have the right solution, but you can provide an answer that's adequate and helps them. You're providing happiness. You may not sell 'em anything at that moment, but they're happy with you and they're gonna come back when they have another problem because they respect your input and they appreciate your help.

[00:11:29] Rob: So that happiness goes a long way,

[00:11:32] Patrick: That's the ultimate.

[00:11:33] Rob: I was trying to

[00:11:34] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:11:35] Rob: and their parents with happiness. I wanted to see them succeed. So I've taken that kind of goal along my professional journey.

[00:11:43] Patrick: Very cool. That should be on your business card happiness provider.

[00:11:46] Rob: Well, I jokingly say I'm the Chief Happiness Officer. You know?

[00:11:50] Patrick: Makes sense.

[00:11:51] Rob: happiness.

[00:11:53] Patrick: Yeah. Because ultimately if you break it down, I guess that's what it comes down to, right? 

[00:11:57] Rob: It.

[00:11:57] Patrick: satisfied, happy customer, you know,

[00:12:01] Rob: if

[00:12:01] Patrick: you able to fill their needs?

[00:12:03] Rob: if

[00:12:03] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:12:03] Rob: everything right. Even if you're not selling to them, but they're happy. I've had many customers that I couldn't help, I just didn't have the right solution for their problem.

[00:12:13] Patrick: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:14] Rob: because I'm honest, transparent and upfront and then I try to, if I can go outta my way, I might know someone in our field that actually has the right solution to their specific problem. And so now I'm

[00:12:26] Patrick: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:27] Rob: for their solution, even though I'm not selling it. And that's okay too,

[00:12:32] Patrick: Yeah. I think that's the ultimate compliment as sales rep or account manager is they're coming to you for stuff that you don't even sell and they're asking for your opinion and your advice on what they should do. Right. Who they should go to.

[00:12:45] Rob: And,

[00:12:46] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:12:46] Rob: And because every time it's, it's just maintained and strengthened those relationships that I still have with people. You know, I have friends that were customers. They text me, we talk on the phone, we keep in touch and I don't even sell the products they're using right now.

[00:13:00] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:13:01] Rob: you know, but they were happy with our relationship and I'm glad they were. And I am too.

[00:13:06] Patrick: Yeah. That's cool. Now in terms of the change in the role, have you seen a change or a shift? 

[00:13:13] Rob: so that specifically, the first thing that comes to mind is, you know, I come from an era when certain products, warrant walking the halls, so to speak, knocking doors cold calling, right? And so those things have changed. Dramatically in the past six years or so, even before COVID things were waning like that.

[00:13:36] Rob: You know, walking halls more, lot more secure buildings in general. You can't just bother people. And so the idea of a warm call I think has, really become the way to go. And with the advent of ai I think the advantages that allows for is to, you know, deliver value sooner. You can deliver a message that's very valuable. With very little upfront conversations. You know, it used to be break the ice with a call and then you learn on the call what the person's doing and what they need. And maybe I can help you. Let's jump on a call. Now you can say, with pretty much certainty, I can help you. And here's how. And I want to talk more on the phone or let's have a teams meeting and let's go over your next project. I see your last project was X, Y, Z. And we have customers that are doing that right now and it just puts yourself in a more mutually beneficial space.

[00:14:37] Rob: Faster. You don't have to waste their time with nonsense about. Learning what they're doing, you can do it much, much faster now. With the internet publications, it's just easier to find that information now, more than ever.

[00:14:51] Patrick: Yeah. So you were saying you have access to what they're doing more insight into their work before the actual call.

[00:14:57] Rob: Yeah,

[00:14:58] Patrick: you're more prepared.

[00:14:59] Rob: it, it's no longer a cold call. Every call can be a warm call.

[00:15:04] Patrick: Interesting. Interesting. I like that.

[00:15:07] Rob: and it just depends. Certain products, you're not gonna necessarily have to do that. Some things are more transactional in nature, so it's not necessary to go that deep into anything. With less information, be able to present a value statement faster. But if you, as a sales partner providing solutions that are more of a capital equipment or some sort of long term or big budget item or solution, you need to have that information probably deeper. And more detailed information to get to that value statement faster. So you have to know what they're doing, what they want to do, or what they have been doing. And again, using AI to kind of connect the dots with maybe three or four of their publications and then wrap it into your solution.

[00:15:56] Rob: And then you can bring a couple of different value points from, you know, that they maybe weren't thinking about right now. Maybe they didn't. use that type of solution before, but moving forward it might be very valuable. And the technology is making that very, it's not very easy, but it's easier than it has been.

[00:16:15] Patrick: So do you find now even more challenging? To get that initial warm call conversation, whether it's in person or on a teams call, because you can't really go and walk the halls as you say

[00:16:29] Rob: Yeah.

[00:16:32] Patrick: and you pretty much have to reach out virtually.

[00:16:34] Rob: I think that,

[00:16:34] Patrick: do you think?

[00:16:35] Rob: so yes and no, so it's, it's, I think people are more, I. Apt to actually have a teams call a virtual. You know, we're doing it right now, right? We're having, we say, teams as a Kleenex. It's a, it's a ubiquitous term. This isn't necessarily teams, but

[00:16:53] Patrick: Like a video call. Yeah.

[00:16:54] Rob: Skype or whatever if a

[00:16:56] Patrick: I.

[00:16:56] Rob: I think people are more apt to do that now. It's less intrusive than knocking on their door and saying, hello, I'm here. You know, or ringing them on the phone. Nobody answers the phone anymore. You know, it's,

[00:17:08] Patrick: Oh, it's rare.

[00:17:09] Rob: and all these other things.

[00:17:10] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:17:11] Rob: Email is good. And then if you can have that conversation to close by email, I guess that's good.

[00:17:20] Patrick: You're,

[00:17:21] Rob: but

[00:17:21] Patrick: you're a rockstar.

[00:17:23] Rob: It's, if you can pull it

[00:17:24] Patrick: You're a superhero.

[00:17:25] Rob: You. But no, I mean, having a face-to-face meeting is important. A phone call, phone calls are great. But the ability to show people things and reading their body language is important. And, you know, connecting with people that way is important. So I think they're more apt to do it now given the availability of the technology. and also I think on the other hand. You need to still make it worth their while.

[00:17:54] Rob: So you still have to come to the table with the introduction via email or something, you know. LinkedIn is great for that as well, connecting with people. There are a lot of different tools to find the right people you're looking for, but again, they're there. I don't wanna dive into all of them, but the tools to find the people that you need to get in touch with are out there and. Their work is out there the delivery of the message of value is not easy. Don't get me wrong. If you wanna do it, you can do it with what's out there right now. It's there.

[00:18:25] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:18:26] Rob: a warm call.

[00:18:28] Patrick: Yeah, no, what struck me that was interesting, what you said is, you know, we're able to bring, value sooner or faster to the customer with the access to technology. At the same time, do you find customers these days versus, 15, 20 years ago? Just busier more than ever before, so they kind of almost expect it.

[00:18:46] Patrick: Now it's like, Hey, don't waste my time. I got all this stuff going on. People are stretched thin. And it's like, do you have that pressure to say, okay, this is what you're dealing with. This is how it can help on a first call right away, you're trying to fit everything in because you know, you may not have a second or third call 'cause everyone just so slammed, including yourself.

[00:19:06] Rob: Yeah, and absolutely true and for different reasons. I think, the decision makers are always busy. The people that you really want to get in touch with have always been busy. So it's not that they're any more busy necessarily but I think the, I mean, they are, don't get me wrong, I think they are more busy, but I don't think it's exponentially.

[00:19:27] Rob: So I think with technology comes fewer doing things. So, if someone in our world sells a product that makes a lab more efficient I had a customer once that said, Hey, Rob, I thought you were gonna less work to do. And I said, what do you mean?

[00:19:44] Rob: And so the product I was selling then was at, our former employer.

[00:19:48] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:19:49] Rob: He said, well, you said it would, like I wouldn't have as many assays to run. And I said, well.

[00:19:54] Patrick: Yeah,

[00:19:55] Rob: Yeah. And he goes, well, now my pi has me doing all these other things, so I'm not less busy, I'm more busy. I said, well, I made you more productive. So it was a matter of semantics at this point. So, you know, he,

[00:20:10] Patrick: you to spin it.

[00:20:11] Rob: yeah. So he, you know. I think when we have technology in the labs, in science, you are diminishing some of the you know, the people in the lab, they're being replaced with whatever technology it is that makes it more efficient.

[00:20:25] Rob: However, those people are now, they're busier because they are now doing multiple jobs and allowing some of those jobs to be done by whatever. Machinery or, or, or AI or whatever it is, robotics.

[00:20:41] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:20:41] Rob: So yeah, those people are busier and, the PIs are, you know, the people in charge. The higher ups are, they have different concerns. Publications, funding grants, and, you know, if they're in the commercial space there're over a lot of people and groups and departments and they're on timelines for clinical trials or the next phase and, you know, release and all those things. So they have

[00:21:05] Patrick: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:07] Rob: different concerns and, and I think to your point, yes, they are busier, but. Not those higher ups aren't necessarily exponentially busy, but when you can deliver that message that you know what they're doing, they're gonna be more likely to talk with you.

[00:21:23] Patrick: It's very definitely very powerful. So you have your finger on a pulse out there talking to scientists every day. Tell me what excites you about the future or in terms of drug discovery? What are you hearing out there that you're like, man, that is so cool.

[00:21:39] Rob: I think

[00:21:40] Patrick: Is there anything I.

[00:21:40] Rob: of the things that make me most excited are the cell and gene therapy space. I think personalized medicine and those kinds of strides in the sciences that we're seeing on both sides of the proteomics and the genomics side are very exciting. I personally think that those drivers are going to produce the biggest leap in positive patient outcomes that we've seen in a hundred years. I think that's where it's

[00:22:08] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:22:09] Rob: Yeah.

[00:22:11] Patrick: Yeah, same here. Especially if you add AI into the mix,

[00:22:16] Rob: Yep.

[00:22:16] Patrick: the potential of. Accelerating discoveries and cures is just so damn exciting for me.

[00:22:22] Rob: It

[00:22:23] Patrick: Looking forward to seeing what happens, you know?

[00:22:25] Rob: Obviously cancer is awful. It affects almost everyone I know and me included my family and so

[00:22:31] Patrick: mm-hmm.

[00:22:31] Rob: cancer has always been like this mythical of science, you know, for health sciences, but. You know, it's, there are other disease states that are, impacting a lot of people as well.

[00:22:46] Rob: Alzheimer's, diabetes, ms, other autoimmune disorders. And so I think again, this cell and gene therapy space is going to provide, not treatment cures to, to these individualized disease states.

[00:23:01] Patrick: So, where do you see our roles in the future? I just had this conversation with a very big supplier. A lab supplier and they said that their company is investing heavily in AI right now in terms of specifically in sales. So, you know, lead generation, how to respond to customers using AI in the sales field, For their sales team. And so knowing that and knowing that more and more companies are gonna invest a lot in ai, specifically in sales, right? Where do you see our. Roles as we know it, going in 15, 20, 30 years,

[00:23:43] Rob: Oh, that long. 

[00:23:45] Patrick: 10 years.

[00:23:46] Rob: the answer for that, but years, probably not a whole lot of difference. I think lead generation and you know, preliminary type of sales work could be done by ai pretty soon, if not immediately. Right now, I'm sure it's happening. I use AI my own lead generation. And outreach sometimes. And so I could see it being employed on a, on a corporate scale pretty, pretty easily. If it isn't, I'm sure it already is. Forward though, the personal relationship with customers can't be and, and probably won't be by ai. I don't, think that that personal interaction, you know, we still do go into the field.

[00:24:27] Rob: We still do get on planes. We still go and travel to our customers. We still have faced meetings. And those will never happen with ai. I kind of pride myself on a couple of fundamentals and, you know, I have, I always say I go into conversations with empathy transparency, compassion, and intent. so I wanna make sure that I'm break delivering those types of emotions to my interactions and relationships and conversations.

[00:24:53] Rob: And I don't know if in the short term, that's gonna be able to be done with ai. Maybe down the road 20, 30 years. Yeah. But I don't think that's gonna replace us anytime soon. I think for the next 10 years, which happens to be sweet spot, I'll be around for another 10 years, least in this industry, about 10, 15 years top I'm thinking.

[00:25:16] Rob: So, you know,

[00:25:17] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:25:18] Rob: I'll be okay. But I think to your point, it's gonna get a little bit more like. year it's gonna be a little bit more over to the ai, but again, you know, people connect with people and the face-to-face, it'll never be replaced.

[00:25:34] Patrick: Yeah. You know, like I listen to you and I'd love to believe that. But even now, like kids these days, they're totally fine texting their friends, not seeing them and feel like they have a, relationship on social media. And so they're okay kind of not meeting their friends.

[00:25:51] Patrick: In person. So I have a nephew who's probably like 14 years old and he's on Fortnite, with his buddies all the time.

[00:26:01] Rob: Right.

[00:26:02] Patrick: And his parents actually forced him to go over to his buddy's place, like, get out, get outta the house, go do something. Right? So he actually went, showed up. His buddy opened the door.

[00:26:12] Patrick: He said, what are you doing here? We should, you know go back home and I'll meet you online.

[00:26:16] Rob: Right.

[00:26:16] Patrick: it's like

[00:26:17] Rob: Go away so

[00:26:18] Patrick: That's a real story.

[00:26:19] Rob: Right.

[00:26:20] Patrick: that's scary.

[00:26:21] Rob: Go home.

[00:26:22] Patrick: That's scary.

[00:26:23] Rob: go home. So we can hang out, is a weird

[00:26:26] Patrick: we can hang.

[00:26:26] Rob: Yeah. Well, you

[00:26:28] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:26:28] Rob: I understand that, but I mean, in our industry specifically. It's hard at this point for me to fathom demoing a piece of equipment or their outcomes from their assays at the bench. In some AI or virtual, laboratory. sure down the road that might be a thing, but this point, they want to see things work literally. In their hands. They want to see it, to believe it, they want to use it and try it. And you can't do that with ai. We have to go into the field and be part of that demo process and show them the results and that data in real life. That's all that matters for now.

[00:27:08] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:27:09] Rob: road.

[00:27:11] Patrick: Yeah. So, you know, this is my thought. Have you ever worn one of those what are they called? The virtual vr

[00:27:18] Rob: Yeah

[00:27:19] Patrick: goggles. Oh, you have one? Okay.

[00:27:21] Rob: yeah.

[00:27:22] Patrick: sure. Do you have the Apple one?

[00:27:23] Rob: I have the Oculus.

[00:27:24] Patrick: Okay, so buddy of mine has the Apple one, right? And apparently Apple is trying to create more of these platforms to interact with those goggles.

[00:27:33] Rob: Right.

[00:27:33] Patrick: he was saying that they have this one program where it's what's her name? Alicia Keys.

[00:27:40] Rob: Okay.

[00:27:41] Patrick: Alicia Keys is in the studio playing piano. And if you put these on, you feel like you're literally right beside her,

[00:27:48] Rob: Right,

[00:27:48] Patrick: listening to her, and she's right in front of you, like a couple of feet.

[00:27:52] Patrick: And so, can you imagine a world where customer would pick up one of those, right? And boom, they're transported into a demo lab and there's a technician doing it, and they're right beside the person. The person's talking to them as if they're right beside them,

[00:28:07] Rob: Yeah.

[00:28:07] Patrick: you know?

[00:28:08] Rob: and that's what I mean. Like there are applications down the road I think that will be possibly moved over to that type of technology. But we can't even get sideline tickets to the Super Bowl yet on vr.

[00:28:23] Patrick: Yes,

[00:28:23] Rob: And that would

[00:28:24] Patrick: that's true. You're right.

[00:28:25] Rob: a billion dollar moneymaker,

[00:28:28] Patrick: Dude. That is amazing. That's such an amazing idea. Yeah.

[00:28:31] Rob: NFL. The NFL will be mark my words. I say this, NFL is probably the only private company that I can think of could afford make the technology go that direction. have enough money, bandwidth, and resources to do it, they haven't done it yet. Imagine the application. You're a music guy. Imagine having front row seats live to go to a concert. have front row seats

[00:28:57] Patrick: Yeah, that's.

[00:28:58] Rob: you wanna go to. So if they're not doing it yet, there's reasons because it would make billions of dollars,

[00:29:07] Patrick: Yeah. I mean, it's not there yet, but I'm just, you know, extrapolating.

[00:29:14] Rob: And I think it's gonna go commercial

[00:29:15] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:29:16] Rob: it's always gonna be the driver's gonna be the revenue and there's not much revenue in putting a set of goggles on a scientist right now and having them do a virtual demo, there's just not enough money in it. But if you're willing to pay a hundred dollars for front row tickets or sideline seats to the super

[00:29:32] Patrick: Well.

[00:29:32] Rob: times people there, there's a lot of

[00:29:36] Patrick: Yeah. But I could argue, Rob, instead of sending the instrument, paying for shipping, customs, sending a rep out there or two out there into the lab paying for meals, paying for the car, all you need to do is just, Hey, I'm gonna send you this Goggle. One can argue it's much cheaper than doing a live demo.

[00:29:53] Patrick: You know what I mean?

[00:29:54] Rob: yeah. The technology has to get there,

[00:29:57] Patrick: It has to get there. Yeah, I can envision that though.

[00:30:01] Rob: if it's not, it's on the way.

[00:30:03] Patrick: Yeah.

[00:30:04] Rob: sure. And again, I just don't know if that enough to convince some customers that, again, there's a tactile thing with, you know, equipment and science, they're literally at the bench doing the work.

[00:30:17] Rob: Even if a robot or a liquid handler or some other automated platform is doing the work with or for them, that scientist is there with it and doing it, and some point. Sure there's a possibility that everything's gonna be completely automated. Robots are gonna do the physical work, AI is gonna do the mental work, and we will no longer need to do anything. And at that point, I think now we're talking about universal basic incomes, because now who's working now, no one's doing anything. So if nothing's being done by humans, then what do we do? I guess we just go and make art and we,

[00:30:54] Patrick: Sit on a beach and chill out. Yeah.

[00:30:56] Rob: Yeah. So that's a whole other, you know, discussion.

[00:31:01] Patrick: Yeah, but don't worry, you're safe, Rob. That's way beyond 15 years, so you're good.

[00:31:06] Rob: For 10

[00:31:06] Patrick: You'll be working.

[00:31:07] Rob: Yeah. I'm good.

[00:31:12] Patrick: So going back to sales throughout your career, I'm assuming you've had a lot of sales training courses. Can you summarize for maybe someone that wants to get into sales right now listening to this basically the top highlights of what you thought was the most important in what you've learned.

[00:31:29] Rob: Yeah, I've gone through a couple of these programs, if you wanna call it that, or approaches or courses and so they have names like Challenger and Spin and other names. And so I think they all have good components. At the core of them, I found that they all have a similar, again, it's kind of like providing solutions.

[00:31:49] Rob: And what you're trying to do is get to the root of the problems that your customer may have that they want to improve on or fix. And so they take different approaches, but it's always the need behind the need. Like what? That's truly what you're. Looking at as a sales person now, what drives and motivates this person and why do they want to go way and how can you help them to go that way with your solution? After bioscience, which I believe was spinner, challenger, I forget I went to r and d Systems slash Biotechni. And while I was there, I was there about nine years. And in that interim we took on our own in-house approach to sales called CVSS. I really enjoyed that process. Consultative value selling skills, and so that took all the best parts of these previous. Programs that I went through and kind of put it into one or highlighted the humanity of it and, the empathy and the conversations that you have with people that are real people. The other approaches I found were a little distant from the actual, person as they have personal goals and they're people, and I was. Rarely impressed with that program that we did there and then I was on a team, I believe you were on the team too. We were part of that team to kind of hone CBSS into what we called Epic, which was more focused on. customers and our products and our solutions that we provided them.

[00:33:23] Rob: So it kind of really got it focused down. And at that point I think it was that, you know, as being part of the team that made it, I'm a little biased, but I think that approach is the best approach for sales that I've ever seen. And it's because I think we really approach the customer with empathy and compassion and.

[00:33:46] Patrick: Yeah, you were an integral part of that and you and the team did a phenomenal job about that.

[00:33:52] Rob: Thanks.

[00:33:52] Patrick: I'd love to, yeah. One thing I like to stress to people is that sales. Is a skill, you know, like yourself, you naturally had that talent of, empathy and wanting to please while having an analytical mindset and to do the research to please.

[00:34:08] Rob: Right.

[00:34:09] Patrick: But that can only take you so far. If you wanna be great at it, you really need to fine tune your skills and know what they are and learn about that and practice it. And that'll take you to a whole nother level.

[00:34:20] Rob: Yeah, it's self-awareness, you know you have to be, the ego crushes people, right? And I try not to have a huge ego and admit when I can improve something and admit. I didn't take the best approach or I did something wrong, and learn from that. Pivot and do it better next time.

[00:34:41] Rob: And so, you know, ego can get in the way of a lot of people's success, their own success as well as, someone else succeed.

[00:34:50] Patrick: happiness. Lessen your ego. Increase your happiness, right?

[00:34:53] Rob: It's, you know, there have been these, you know, I see a lot of people online and LinkedIn even, and in sales and in business that have this cutthroat mentality. And, sometimes they get far in life and sometimes they're successful you know I think you can get just as far and successful, and you don't have to be cutthroat.

[00:35:15] Rob: You can be a compassionate, empathetic human being and be very successful in life.

[00:35:21] Patrick: Yep. Nice guys. Do not finish last. That's like the worst myth ever. When they say, nice guys finish last. That's a load of BS right there.

[00:35:30] Rob: It's all ego.

[00:35:32] Patrick: You're one of the nice guys out there, man.

[00:35:34] Rob: Thank you.