The Napkin In Between
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The Napkin In Between
There Is A SERIOUS ATTACK On Motherhood!!!!!!
TW: THERE IS MENTION OF MISCARRIAGE IN THIS EPISODE!! VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED!!!! Also, sorry the audio is a little crispy, I like to think it was the spirit of Eric Mays with us on the pod. RIP to a real one.
What happens when we misidentify our true adversaries? The sun is shining, dogs are playing, and somehow we've found ourselves in a culture war between mothers and child-free women that completely misses the point.
In today's episode, we dive deep into the recent social media trend of women celebrating their child-free status and the puzzling backlash from mothers who've personalized these celebrations as attacks. Why are we fighting each other instead of focusing on the real threats to women's autonomy? When child-free women dance to "21 with no kids," they're celebrating their own choices – not criticizing yours.
The real attack on motherhood isn't coming from TikTok. It's happening in places like Georgia, where 24-year-old Selena Chandler Scott faces up to 13 years in prison for disposing of a miscarried fetus. These laws that criminalize natural pregnancy outcomes while simultaneously cutting support for living children reveal where the true battle lies.
By fighting amongst ourselves, we're playing directly into a system designed to divide us while stripping away fundamental rights. The sooner we direct our anger at the correct targets, the sooner we can make meaningful progress toward reproductive justice.
It's time to stop demonizing women making different choices and start questioning a system that values controlling women's bodies over supporting mothers and children. Let's dilly dally less with infighting and focus more on the laws that truly threaten all women's freedoms.
Is this thing on? Hello, hello, uh-oh, another yapper with a mic. Hello, hello. Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Napkin In Between podcast. I'm your host, Daijné Jones. I hope everyone is having a good day, except for that orange drink lady.
Daijné:As always, I want to know what the peak of your week was, something that made you smile, kept you grounded, something that you found joy in in the chaos that is the world. As y'all know, for the last couple of weeks I've been saying that things that I don't do enough are romanticize my life and utilize my free will, and I was actually talking to my roommate about this the other day and she said it perfectly. She said we just don't dilly dally enough, and I was like that is the realest shit I have heard in such a long time. Like when is the last time that you just went outside with no real plan, no thoughts, just vibes, and instead of seizing the day, you let the day seize you? You know what I mean. Like just do whatever comes to your mind, as long as, obviously, that doesn't hurt anybody or putting anybody at risk or yourself at risk, but just like doing things just for the sake of doing them, with no real plan and just doing whatever you want. And so this past week we had an 80 degree day in the city, the first of the year, the first in the last couple of months.
Daijné:Honestly, and for me, nothing boosts my serotonin or gives me more of a will to live than when the sun is out. Nice weather or the weather in general can single handedly change the entire way that I feel about a day. I feel like my energy and my emotions like Bluetooth to the weather, like if it's rainy or gloomy or cold outside, I am immediately low energy. I don't really wanna do anything like the weather genuinely affects my day or my mood, and I know that I'm not the only person who feels that way. Nor am I saying that that is like the way that everyone feels. I know that there are some people who genuinely prefer, like the cold or the rain or the cloudy, just not my vibe. I am so much happier when the sun is out and so, being as though I've been saying like I want to utilize my free, romanticize my life more.
Daijné:It was the perfect day to just dilly dally, and so I decided to take Luna with me, and so I was like perfect day to go to the dally, and so I decided to take luna with me and so I was like perfect day to go to the dog park. We hadn't been in a couple of weeks because of her ear infection, and it's her favorite place to go, and then also the weather was nice. So I was like there's probably gonna be a ton of dogs there. Luna will love that. So we went to the dog park and so we're coming up to the dog park and there's this woman and she's standing right in front of the gate to the dog park with her dog. I didn't think anything of it. We're at the dog park.
Daijné:Obviously, like I just figured she was going into the dog park. So I'm approaching the gate and she looks at me like I'm doing something wrong and I'm like um, here I am, you see my dog, like putting two and two together. Like I was confused as to why she was looking at me as if I was doing something wrong. Before I continue this story, yes, she was, she was. So I get closer to the gate and the closer I get, the more she's looking at me as if I'm doing something wrong and I'm like what is wrong with this lady? But I didn't really think anything of it. I'm just continuing to walk towards the gate and I get like a foot or so away from the gate and she jumps back, yanks her dog and she's like you can't get close to me, my dog isn't always friendly. And I'm like why are you standing right in front of the dog park gate then, and why are you at the dog park in general, like if you know your dog isn't friendly? What are you doing here? And I don't mean to be like you should keep your dog inside then, or like not have your dog socialize with a dog, like that's not what I mean, but it's just like number one. You're standing right in front of the fucking dog gate. You're standing right in front of the entrance to the dog park. If your dog isn't friendly, maybe don't stand there. But also like, if your dog isn't friendly, why would you bring your dog to the dog park when this is the first 80 degree day that we've had in the city in months? Obviously there's going to be a thousand and one dogs at the dog park. So what are you doing here? So I look at her and I go you're standing right in front of the gate. We're trying to get into the dog park and she's like, oh sorry, like and like pulls her dog and moves away. And I'm just like, okay, lady, so Luna and I go into the dog park. Luna's playing, whatever, having a great time.
Daijné:I guess this woman felt like it was time to let her dog into the dog park. So she comes into the dog park and obviously, for any dog owners of anyone who's ever been to a dog park, whenever a new dog comes into the dog park, all of the dogs go over to sniff the dog, whatever, whatever, you know what I mean. And so she opens the gate. It's like a two gate entrance, so like there's like this first gate where there's like a little bit of area, and then there's a second gate that's into, like, the dog park. And so when she opens the first gate and goes into the first little enclosure part, obviously all the dogs come, come running over and the lady goes can everyone grab their dogs? Like, my dog isn't always friendly and I'm like, girl, this is an off leash dog park, so none of us, like all the dogs are off leash. So now all the owners have to come running over to the, to the gate, to grab their dogs. And I'm just like, what are you fucking doing here? Like you're killing the vibe.
Daijné:So all the owners, whatever, we all go to our respective dogs and like we, we pull them back a little bit. Obviously they don't want to go because there's a new friend in town. Like they all wanted to greet this, this dog, um, and so she opens the second gate. We're all still holding our dogs. So then, after like 30 seconds to a minute or so, everyone lets their dogs go and she's still holding her dog. Her dog is still on its leash, and so all the other dogs are like a little confused. Honestly, I felt like because they were like, are you allowed to play? Or like what's happening? So they end up all just going, like running away and and playing together. And so the lady like, as the dogs run away, she lets her dog off of the leash, and so all the dogs eventually come back over to her dog and she's like yelling at all of the dogs to give her dog space, because her dog isn't always friendly. And I'm like, can you leave? Like obviously all of these dogs here want to play. That's what the dog park is fucking for.
Daijné:Why did you bring your dog here if all you're going to do is, like, be on high alert. Like on the edge of your seat she looked like she was about to have a fucking panic attack and screaming at all the other dogs and owners to like, control our dogs. Mind you, our dogs aren't doing anything. They're all being friendly, they're all playing very well Like babes. You're kind of the issue here. Your dog is the common denominator.
Daijné:Maybe not bring your dog to the dog park on the first 80 degree day that we have in the city. So one of the dog owners walks over to her and is like hey, like I'm a dog trainer, you know, being as though there's so many dogs here today, maybe today isn't the best day for you to bring your dog. Or maybe, like, you should bring them later on in the evening, where there's probably going to be less dogs, because it was like midday, like it was like early afternoon, like 1: 30 or so, and so obviously peak time for dogs to be at the dog park. And so he's talking to her and he's just trying to like, tell her. Like you know, maybe this isn't the best time of day, or maybe this isn't the best day in general, being as though it is the first night's day that we've had in a while and she got defensive. She was like no, my dog is fine, like he just needs some space. Like can you guys just all give my dog some space?
Daijné:And we're all like this is an open field, dog park, off leash, where all the dogs we've brought to run around and play, like we can try our best, but at the same time there's so many dogs here it's probably not the best day to bring your dog or the best time, like maybe just try one or the other, not bring your dog to the dog park. If you know, your dog isn't always friendly. Because my thing is like if your dog does anything to my dog, I will absolutely beat the shit out of you. It's that that is the equivalent to me is like sending your kid to school and there's someone picking on your kid and then you go to talk to the mom and the mom is like, oh well, it's like that's just how my kid is Okay. So now I'm going to beat the shit out of you because you're the one who raised your kid to be like that.
Daijné:Children are a product of their environment. You know what I mean. And, like I told y'all, I do not play about my dog. That is literally my daughter Like me against the world over that bitch, literally. So I was like let me just go ahead and get my shit and go, because this woman is clearly not reading the room. Her dog is growling at the other dogs whenever they approach it and the thing about Luna is I feel like she has zero defense skills. Like she's just so sweet and like just wants to play and and bring joy and love to everybody that I don't know that she would truly defend herself if she needed to. Like Luna, she's just a very interesting pup, which is so funny because pits gets such a bad rep, and I'm like this is truly the sweetest dog I've ever been around in my entire life. Like she would not hurt a fly, honestly. She also has a ton of anxiety so whenever there's a sound or a creak or anything that scares her, she runs to me for protection and I'm like girl, you're supposed to be the scary one, not me. But I was just like let me go ahead and go, because you're you're just killing the vibe. So Luna and I ended up leaving. We just and sat in Central Central Park instead, but other than this lady with the mean dog.
Daijné:It was a very nice day and I just love being outside when the weather is nice. Like the sun being out and the weather being nice is literally top two of my favorite things and it ain't two, you know what I mean. And even though the weather since Saturday has gone back to its regularly scheduled programming it's been like rainy and gloomy and not the best weather. It just made me really excited because summer is coming and I just love summer, I love when it's warm, I love being outside, and so it just made me really excited. Hopefully we'll get some nice weather again soon so we can go back outside. That's just like dilly dallying weather. That's the weather that I need in order to romanticize my life and use my free will more, like when it's cold, like I just want to be inside because I'm just naturally cold always anyway, and so it being cold outside it's like it doubles it and gives it back to me. You know what I mean. So that has definitely been the peak of my week just nicer weather. It makes me so excited for summer and also, with it being nicer outside and me dilly dallying more, that is going to be more stories for the pod, more vlogs for my personal YouTube, just more content in general, which I'm really, really excited about as well. So that has been the peak of my week.
Daijné:Please tell me the peak of your week. What made you smile, what kept you grounded, ways that you found joy in the chaos that is this world continuing on and what we're gonna talk about today. For the past couple of weeks, I have seen a ton of videos from mothers talking about how there is an attack on motherhood and people are coming at mothers or bullying mothers because they are mothers. I have seen moms say that people are trying to belittle them or chastise them because they are mothers, etc. Etc. And I think that it is time that we have an honest conversation, because there is a million percent an attack on motherhood, but not the way that y'all are trying to frame it and not from the people that you are trying to say that it is from. So let's talk about it.
Daijné:Recently, there's been this trend going around on TikTok to that song that goes "21 with no kids, and there's women dancing around celebrating the fact that they are child free and that's a decision that they have been making and, for some reason, mothers have taken this trend and personalized it. They have taken this trend of women saying I am child free and I am happy because that's a decision that I made, and they're like how can I make this about me? And I'm just like y'all don't find that odd, like that's odd. That's really really odd, because here's the thing Multiple things can and oftentimes are true at once. Okay. And a woman deciding not to have children and celebrating that decision completely fine. And at the very same time, a woman who has decided to have children and is happy with that decision also completely fine. A woman being happy that she is child free is not an attack on mothers. That has nothing to do with mothers because that is her decision.
Daijné:And the thing that's so disgusting to me about this whole thing is that, as women who have decided to be child free are celebrating that decision and living their lives and doing whatever they want to do, moms who are taking that as a personal attack are in their comments, trying to shame them and be like oh you, just you don't have kids because you can't have kids, or you don't have kids because you can't keep a man, or you don't have kids because you must be a lesbian, or your uterus doesn't work or like. I've seen the craziest fucking things and it's like do you understand how disgusting, first and foremost, and also illogical it is to say to a woman oh you don't have kids because you can't? If a woman doesn't have kids because she's struggling with infertility, for whatever reason, she hasn't made the choice to be child-free. In fact, she's trying to not be child-free, but for whatever reason she's struggling. And so for you to use that another woman's struggle as a way to try to clap back at someone who wasn't coming for you in the first place anyway, can we please look in the mirror? Can we please ask ourselves what the fuck we're doing? Like, do y'all not see how fucking weird that is? And not only is it weird, it's fucking disgusting to try to take another woman's pain because she's struggling with infertility or whatever, and use that as some sort of like gotcha or some sort of like dig at a woman who has decided that she does not want children. Like. Not only is it fucking illogical and makes no fucking sense, because it doesn't apply to that woman, it is fucking disgusting. Second of all oh you don't have kids because you can't keep a man. Babes, you have kids and you couldn't keep a man either. You're a single mother. Or or even worse, you have a husband or a boyfriend or whatever, and you're still a single mother. Can we please clock that tea? So, like, what sense does that make? Can, like, again, extremely fucking illogical.
Daijné:But also like I think that's some of the reason the moms are so upset and personalizing this shit is because some of y'all do hate your lives. I'm not like, can we just be for real. Some of y'all, like the ones who are personalizing this and making this about them and being upset about something that does not apply to them, it's projection. Like you're upset because you wish that you were the one with no kids. Let's like, let's just be honest, that's truly the only logical explanation for me like I'm sorry, you just hate your life. And it's like they'll see these trends that again have nothing to do with them I will say that several times this episode because it genuinely they have nothing to do with them and they'll personalize them because they are upset, they they wish they were 20, 30, whatever with no kids, and it's like they'll they'll respond to these trends by, like, showing their children in the frame and being like, look, look, how happy I am, look how happy I am and I be watching these videos and I'm like are you trying to convince me, or you that you're happy? Cause you're not convincing me? Stinka butt, it's not working. Like if you're genuinely happy, you can just show that you know what I mean, like you don't have to prove your happiness in response to something that had nothing to do with you and kind of like piggybacking off of this,
Daijné:Chappell Roan recently did an interview and she said that the people that she knows with children aren't happy. I have seen mothers take that, twist it and they're like oh my god, she's attacking motherhood. First of all. Again, she said people, okay, people. She didn't say mother. She said people, people that she knows with children, are not happy. But they took that and they said oh, here's another attack on motherhood. Chappell Roan said all mothers, all mothers are are unhappy and they hate their lives and they hate their kids and it's like so she said people that she knows not mckinley, they stay at home, mama five, who actually does hate her fucking life like why are we personalizing this? This had nothing to do with you.
Daijné:She was speaking from her personal experience and people that she knows, if anything, the only people who have a right to be upset but by what she said, in my opinion, are her friends, are her real life friends, because I don't know if that's something that they said to her and maybe they said it to her in confidence and then she kind of shared it with the world, so I can understand if they would be upset that way. That would upset me too if I told you something in confidence and then you went and told the internet like, okay, valid reason to be upset, or if they're kind of feeling like you know what'd she say, fuck me for? You know what I mean, because I watched a little bit of the interview and the question was like oh, do you think that you'll have kids? And then she kind of was like I'm not having kids because everyone that I know who has kids isn't happy. You know what I mean. So it was like didn't really need to bring up your friend's situation. So I can understand if they would be upset that way.
Daijné:But for the strangers on the internet, the moms who are like, oh my god, Chappell Roan is saying that I'm miserable, why are we making this about us? Like, why are you making it about you? You know what I mean. It just it's illogical to me. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. But also, she wasn't really saying like fuck you to motherhood or to, you know, wanting children. It was more of like a fuck you to the system, because the system, especially the one that we live in right now, is making it so much harder to want to have kids. First of all, the economy is fucking shit. Having children in this economy absolutely fucking not. But also with the current state of women's reproductive rights and the way that they are trying to criminalize abortions or miscarriages or anything like that like that is the true attack on motherhood that we are seeing right now. The way that they are trying to criminalize abortions and miscarriages that is the attack on motherhood that y'all should be worried about, not people dancing around because they have decided to be child-free and not chop around saying that. Her personal experience with the people that she knows in real life she sees that they are not happy.
Daijné:There is a woman in Georgia right now, 24-year-old Selena Chandler Scott from Tifton, Georgia, in jail because she had a miscarriage. She was 19 weeks pregnant. She had a miscarriage. After her miscarriage she took the fetus, put it in a dumpster on her way back into her apartment. Because of the amount of blood that she had lost, she passed out. Someone called an ambulance. They rushed her to the hospital. There was a witness who said that they had seen her put something in the dumpster. So the police went to the dumpster, searched the dumpster, found the fetus and, because of the new laws in georgia which have given personhood to a fetus at any stage of development, she was arrested and charged with concealing the death of another person and abandonment of a dead body, which, if she's found guilty of, she could serve 13 years behind bars. Because she had a miscarriage and she threw the fetus in the dumpster. Mind you, they autopsied the fetus. There was no sign of foul play. There was no sign of any breath or life of the fetus before the miscarriage. She literally just threw the fetus in the fucking dumpster and she was arrested, charged and there's a possibility that she could spend time behind bars.
Daijné:That is the attack on motherhood. Who knows how she was feeling? She had a miscarriage, a miscarriage and there is no right way I say in quotes to dispose of a fetus. Most women, when they have a miscarriage, they flush it down the toilet, they throw it in the garbage, like that is not out of the norm to do, and I can understand. Maybe she didn't want to flush it down the toilet, maybe she didn't want to just throw it in the garbage in her home as a painful reminder that she had just had a miscarriage.
Daijné:I don't know, and I can't judge her for that, because every woman is different, and going through a miscarriage as someone who has been through two is one of the most painful things that I have ever experienced in my entire life. So I can't judge another woman for how she decided to cope and to heal with that traumatic experience. It's not my place to judge her, nor should it be anyone fucking else's. Nor should she be facing criminal fucking charges because, again, no sign of foul play, no sign that the fetus had ever taken a breath of life. Like these are the things that we should be infuriated about, and instead you're upset that women who have decided to be child free are happy with that decision.
Daijné:I just don't understand how we are here, how we are here chastising and blaming child-free women and saying that they are attacking mothers, when our fucking government and our laws are trying to criminalize having a miscarriage and, at the very same time, they'll say that free lunch for students is too much. At the same time, they're trying to dismantle the department of education. At the same time, they want to cut food assistance. But and this is the pro-life people, mind you why do they only care when the fetus is inside the body? And also if a fetus is a person and has personhood? Is that also when child support starts? Is that when the father of these fetuses need to start financially contributing to the life of of the fetus if it's a person, right? So when? When do those laws come into effect? When do we start to make these fathers and these men be financially responsible for the children if they're a person? Those are questions that need fucking answers.
Daijné:Like this is why I say this is the real attack on motherhood, because they would never, in a million fucking years, even think to make men pay or be financially responsible for fucking fetuses. It would never fucking happen, never fucking happen. These are the things that should be infuriating us. These are the things that we should be pointing at as the attack on mothers, but instead you look at the woman who says you know what, in this economy and in this day and age with women's reproductive rights. I'm not having kids, and that's your issue. Not the system that has led them to make these decisions, but the woman's decision itself. I really need us to be so fucking for real.
Daijné:Child free women are not your enemy. They are not attacking you, they are not a problem. The system and this government is the problem. That's where your focus should be, because there is no reason that a 19-week-old fetus that could not survive on its own because she was miscarrying this woman was miscarrying. You cannot reverse a miscarriage Like once you're miscarrying, you're miscarrying. There is nothing you can do to stop it. So there is no reason that this fetus that had no chance of survival, that had never taken a single breath of life, there's no reason that should be considered more of a person than your human children who are running around. There is no reason that a fetus that could not survive should have more rights and more protections than your children. As we wrap up today's episode, I need us to lock in. We are continuing to fight one another rather than fighting the system and the government, and that's why it continues to have so much power over us. Child-free women are not attacking you. They are not your enemy. They are simply living their life and are happy to be doing so. Nothing wrong with that. The issue is the government and these systems that give more of a personhood to a fetus than to real, alive human children, and the sooner we are able to realize that and call that out, the sooner we will be able to direct our anger at the correct people, because, I promise you, the child for a woman is not who you should be upset with.
Daijné:Thank you guys, so much for tuning into today's episode. I do hope that it was helpful. I do hope that you will look more into the story of Selena Chandler Scott. I will provide updates here and on TikTok as they are available. I really can't believe that this is like a real life story and is like really happening. I can believe it because of like the government and the systems and the war that there is on women and women's reproductive rights and the weird obsession they have with controlling our fucking bodies. Disappointing but not surprising is a better way to put it. Like it's it's extremely disappointing and extremely upsetting, but not really that surprising. Thank you, guys for tuning in. I hope everyone is having a good day, except for that orange drink, lady and I will talk to you in the next episode. Peace and love. Talk to you later. The Napkin in Between, hosted by Daijné Jones, produced by Daijné Jones, post-production by Daijné Jones, music by Sam Champagne and graphics by Isma Vidal. Don't forget to like and subscribe. See you next episode.