The Napkin In Between

Navigating The Music Industry & Creating Clear Boundaries with Sam Champagne

• Daijné Jones

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Sam Champagne sits down with us to pull back the curtain on her multifaceted career as a producer, sound engineer, singer, and songwriter. With disarming honesty, she reveals how her musical journey began at just 8 years old, experimenting with FL Studio on the family computer—a passion that would eventually become her calling.

The conversation takes fascinating turns as Sam discusses navigating the music industry as a dark-skinned woman in a field dominated by men. Rather than viewing this solely as a challenge, she explains how she strategically used digital platforms where her work could initially be judged purely on talent: "They'd all assume I'm a man... I didn't try to hide, it just doesn't matter. If you have the skill, it shouldn't matter." This refreshing perspective highlights her focus on craftsmanship above all else.

What truly sets this discussion apart is Sam's reflection on finding peace in an industry obsessed with manufactured excitement. "One thing I don't see these days is peace," she observes. "When the stage light is off, when you're by yourself—do you have the peace for your mind to not go a million miles a minute?" This wisdom extends to her approach to creativity, where she values authentic expression over chasing viral moments or fitting into prescribed boxes.

Sam also shares the story behind her new book "Collab Bro"—a resource for music-producing artists who struggle with collaboration or confidence in their creative process. The title playfully references the messages she'd receive from people assuming she was male, turning what could be frustrating into something empowering.

Whether you're an aspiring creative, music lover, or simply appreciate authentic conversations about navigating professional landscapes while staying true to yourself, this episode delivers insights that resonate far beyond the recording studio. Follow Sam @samchampagnenyc on social platforms to connect and explore her music on all streaming services.

Daijné:

Is this thing on? Hello, hello, uh-oh, another yapper with a mic. Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Napkin Inbetween Podcast. I'm your host, Daijné Jones, and I am joined today by my lovely friend, Sam Champagne. Hey y'all, thanks for coming. I'm so excited. Of course, me too. Okay, quick question that I have before we get into it Sam Champagne, is that your real name or is that your stage name? That's my real name. I love that. Thank you to my dad. Like I love when people's names are just like. You could just tell like, oh, that like they're supposed to be on the stage somewhere.

Daijné:

You know what I I mean, and you have one of those names that's like yeah, it's like it just sounds like an artist. You know what I mean.

Sam:

I thank god that I didn't have to think about that when I was just born with it right, just born with it. I guess it was destined to be so.

Daijné:

We'll see, yeah okay, well, great, well. Again, I want to say thank you for coming. I'm so excited to talk to you today, something that I always do. At the beginning of every one of my episodes, I talk about the peak of my week. So it's just something that happened during the week that made me smile, that kept me grounded, because the way the world is right now, girl, we need that. We need that For sure. So I wanted to ask you what has been the peak of your week?

Sam:

The peak of my week. I have gotten into this new career part of my career. It's a little bit different than music, but I've gotten into it and I'm enjoying it. So far, so that's been the peak of my week. I've been meeting a lot of new people, nice, and I'm really enjoying myself. And it's happening throughout the week, so I got paid, of course, always, always a nice little part.

Daijné:

So there you go, okay. Always always a nice little perk. So there you go, okay, what about yours? So the peak of my week, I found 20 laying outside on the floor the other day and I said money, you know what?

Daijné:

and the thing is, when I first seen it I was like this is a prank. Like I've seen people like literally shit in money and leave it somewhere so that someone will pick it up. And I said y'all not about to get me. So I walked past it initially and I was on my way to like do laundry. So I was like, if it's still there when I get back from my laundry, like maybe I'll check it out, see what's going on with it. And when I came back it was still there. So I looked at it and it looked clean. So I was like and I picked it up and it was. It was just a nice little $20 bill sitting there and I said you know what blessings, yes beautiful, oh my god.

Sam:

Yes, I'm not to be honest. That is kind of impressive because I have not seen quarters lately.

Daijné:

I've not seen dollars in this economy, no one's trying to lose money. So I was like sorry to whoever lost this, but girl finders keepers. So, yeah, that was definitely the peak of my week, wow, um, okay. So I'm gonna. I've written down a few questions that I want to ask you, beautiful, okay. So number one let's just tell, tell us about you, like whatever that means for you.

Sam:

Wow I don't want to lead too much so yeah, these questions are all kind of broad.

Daijné:

I just want whatever that means for you. Wow, I don't want to know too much. So, yeah, these questions are all kind of broad.

Sam:

I just want whatever that means to you, just tell us, tell us about you yeah, so my name is sam champagne, as you guys have heard already, a beautiful name blessed by my family. Um, I am a multitude of things. I really really love engineering, I love singing, songwriting, I'm into music and I also like run around the city, new York City based, and I've released a couple songs, and there's so much I want to talk about honestly and I'm excited to share with all you guys. It's just like where do I begin, right? And also's just uh, I just want to say it's like incredible seeing how far this podcast is coming, because I remember like from day one, you're like, oh, I get, what do I get?

Sam:

I'm just like here you go and then, like you just took that and you ran with it and it's like really cool to see thank you, wait because I'm gonna cry.

Daijné:

Thank you so much. No, I wanted to get into that because when I was finally like okay, I'm gonna start my podcast, I was obviously looking at stuff and I had no idea what the hell I was doing. So whenever I don't know something, I go to Sam because she is just she's a genius. So I was like let me contact Sam and like get some of your recommendations and literally everything that you sent me. It was like that's contact sam and like get some of your recommendations and literally everything that you sent me. It was like that's what I got for the podcast. So just wanted to say like I would not be here with this, all of this equipment and this podcast, if it wasn't for your guidance.

Sam:

So thank you, thank you so much for that of course, and of course I'm around anytime like, literally, even viewers watching or listening in, like. If you all need an engineer person, hit me up Honestly speaking of segues perfectly into my next question.

Daijné:

So for those of you who don't know, I have a diss track out there in the world for streaming.

Sam:

You should stream it, yes.

Daijné:

Because of Sam. A little bit of the backstory. When was it Like? I think it was like April of last year. I had posted a video on TikTok and I was talking about the gay son thought daughter debate and this woman commented on my video. She didn't even comment, she stitched my video and she was like oh, I can't understand what you're saying because of your hair. Mind you, I was wearing my 4C Afro, my my natural hair. So if any of y'all have seen my videos, which you have, you know I am known for clapping back. So I was like okay, I'm definitely clapping back at this texturous, crazy ass bitch.

Daijné:

Um, so I went to her page and gathered some intel and I saw that she was a rapper and I also saw that her kids got taken away by CPS. So I was like, oh, okay, yeah, we're definitely using that. So I wrote a little, instead of like my normal clapbacks of just like talking at the camera, I was like she's a rapper, so like I'm gonna write a diss track. So I wrote a little diss track and put it online. She kept getting it taken down. Long story short, and so I was like I want to put this on streaming platforms and so that you know she can't mess with it anymore.

Daijné:

And so I went online and I typed in New York City producers and Sam popped up and so I DM'd her and I was like, hey, like I told her the whole story and everything, and so the reason I have my diss track is all because of Sam, because she's the she made the beat, she's the sound engineer, the producer, like everything from sam. Um, so I just wanted to ask you, like if you remember because it's been a little bit of time now when you saw my dm, like what was like your thoughts behind it, like what? Like what were your? What went through your mind? I remember?

Sam:

that time perfectly well, because, like it was just so, um, at the time I wasn't getting a lot of DMs. So when the when the DMs started to come, I was kind of consistently posting at that time like me, just like making beats on TikTok or whatever. And I saw your DM and I was like oh, oh, that's interesting. And then you start to tell me more of the story and I was like yeah, yeah, I'll put, I'll put my dog in this race. I like this, I love it. I was like I'm here for this, okay. So then you sent me over the track and I heard it and I was like, yeah, I could.

Daijné:

There's light work, right yeah, do something for you, so no sweat absence so we started collaborating and that was it's just been fun, yeah, literally yeah, it's been great for me too, because going into it, I did not know like anything about music other than listening to other people's music, and so when it came to like the b and the engineering, all of that, I was like I have no idea what I'm doing and you were just great with that, like explaining everything to me and helping me along the way, and the thing that I liked about you so much is that you explained it to me but you didn't mansplain it to me. I hate for someone to mansplain something to me and you just like you, were great at explaining it.

Sam:

If there's one thing I know about being in the engineering audio engineering industry is mansplaining. Yeah girl, Lots of mansplaining, yeah girl, Lots of mansplaining. You know what?

Daijné:

I know that. I know that. So, oh my God, you're just like leading, like mind you. We haven't gone over any of these questions. She just keeps segwaying into my next question. So my next question what got you into sound engineering and producing and different things like that?

Sam:

Let me see when it came to engineering and production. I would say my older brothers, they kind of like had a program on their the family computer when I was like eight or seven. It was called FL Studio, Still out to this day. A lot of producers use it. A lot of producers make big hits on it. Yeah, but at the time it was called like Fruity Loops and I would just go on there and I would just mess around, Did not know what I was doing, but I honestly always loved music and I guess I always loved music production because I got to make stuff and build stuff. Yeah, Because you know as a kid you like to mess around and build things.

Sam:

Right, right. It just so happened that I had the grace to have a program like that on my computer that young and I started messing around with it and I just started producing some stuff and making stuff and it just kind of it was something that I did when I got home after school.

Daijné:

OK, to decompress Nice.

Sam:

And it wasn't like I was intending to become something with it, but it was just something fun for me to do, like, oh, I could like replicate this beat. I could do that. I can make my own piano song.

Daijné:

Yeah, so I kind of did that and that I feel like that shows so much in your music, because Sam also has music which you all should be listening to, but you can just tell that you're passionate about it and, like your music is very like it. It doesn't feel like forced. Do you know what I mean? Like I feel like with some creatives and artists, they they want it, but they don't want it for necessarily all the right reasons, and you're just very passionate about it and it's something that you genuinely want to be doing. Yeah, and I feel like that shows in your music most definitely.

Sam:

I honestly say, like, even if I'm taking a break from music, it's always something that I could use to decompress and just release, like creativity right, always. Like the skills haven't left me, they won't leave me, um, and it's just something that I can use to like oh, I'm bored, let me just put something together yeah or like I'm a little bit upset, let me just rattle yeah, yeah and it's just it's.

Sam:

It's beautiful in that way and I think, um, especially when we, when I don't try and make a career out of it, when I don't try and force myself to become something out of it right that I don't try and force myself to become something out of it, that's when it becomes like easier and like way more enjoyable.

Daijné:

Yeah, so, yeah, yeah. And again, that that definitely reflect reflects in your music for sure. So growing up, was your, were your brothers into like music too, like was it a family affair or like why did they have the program? Was it also music, or was it music for you and something different for them?

Sam:

I don't remember the exact story, but I think it was my eldest brother and his best friend at the time and they were looking into production. So they downloaded Fruity Loops on the computer and it just kind of stuck with him and my eldest brother. And my younger who's still my older brother.

Daijné:

Yeah.

Sam:

My second brother. He got into it. Okay, who's still my older brother? Yeah, my second brother, he got into it, okay. And then like he kind of ran with it pretty far, nice, and then I was just like peeking over their shoulder right both of them right, what is that?

Sam:

so then it kind of like trickled down to me, okay, stuck with me, but music always like kind of was in the family as well. So my dad plays bass, oh, okay, like he's always playing to like reggae music nightly. He's so good with that. He was a session bassist in jamaica. He um would play shows in jamaica and it was just something that we carried from us in our heritage. Nice and like even like extended family are really into music, right. So just, if not production, it would have been something music related right yeah got it, yeah, so that's how that kind of came to be, I believe.

Daijné:

Okay, and have you guys? Do you guys have any songs together, like you and your dad, you and your brothers, anything like that? We make our stuff together.

Sam:

Nice, I can't say that we have anything out together but we do make our stuff together.

Daijné:

That's fun. Yeah, I like a family thing that just kind of like connects you. Yeah, that's so cool. Yeah, I love that. Okay, so being as though you know you're in the music industry, dark-skinned woman, and also you're genre fluid, I almost said gender fluid, no, so what's funny is that you saw that description in my Spotify. Yes.

Sam:

And you were like oh wait oh, no, girl, I was panicking.

Daijné:

so Sam and I had been friends for a while and I was listening to her music on Spotify and I saw like her music description and I thought it said gender fluid and I literally I was like I have been misgendering Sam since I I've known her, so I I felt terrible, so I texted Sam and I was like I'm so sorry, like what are your preferred pronouns?

Sam:

and she was like girl, it says genre fluid honestly speaking, that just shows how considerate of a person you are. Cause like.

Daijné:

I literally I was like oh my god, and she was like girl.

Sam:

I was like she's so sweet she's so sweet. I appreciate that that you asked um. But yeah, genre fluid.

Daijné:

Genre fluid. So being as though you're genre fluid and you're a woman and you're a dark skinned woman. What's your experience been like in the music industry with all of that? Because your music doesn't fit into the stereotypical box that I feel like is set up for black women in the industry. So what's your experience been like so?

Sam:

okay, I would say that I'm really blessed to be born in this era, for this specific reason that we have the technology, because I we've talked about this before, but I can kind of circumvent it a little bit, because the internet is like you don't see anyone's face, and so for a minute a while whenever I would get dms for collabs, like they would all assume that I'm a man right and I'm like sorry, yeah, yeah, I was like yeah sure, but like they'd be like, oh yeah, collab bro, like all right, yeah bro, yeah bro.

Sam:

But like that's kind of like how I was able to like circumvent that as a producer, because I did notice after a while, especially during the pandemic, I did notice there was a difference in the way people would treat me in person versus online and actually I was able to find my community, production community because of online and that kind of made me more happy than it did like upset me.

Sam:

Yes, I'm aware of my circumstance, but at the same time, I'm aware of like the tools I have in front of me absolutely and I love using those to my advantage because, like everyone uses- as you should yeah, I will use mine to my advantage, as you should. I became a part of this community. I got into contact with like amazing people in the industry, like people I didn't even think that I like would like be friends with, right, yeah, um, shout out ken lewis. Um, so little thing about him.

Daijné:

He has like a hundred gold records oh, wow, okay, like taylor swift doing his big one, yeah he just got a grammy and he got has like two Grammys now or one Grammy.

Sam:

But yeah, it was through online that I was able to foster that relationship. Okay, he was able to see me for my skill Right Rather than like me or him being really cognizant of what I look like what you look like yeah, and that was a huge blessing. Like I know, with covid, a lot of things like hit the fan right yeah, there's some like there's some.

Sam:

Yeah, I really liked that okay, um, but yeah, building my community. But even in person I found acceptance through like people who are like me and like in communities of diversity. That kind of made it a little bit easier in the grand scheme of things.

Sam:

Yeah, my biggest and my like closest community to my heart that I still go to is my vocal class. I would say, okay, Also, shout out Craig Derry. He's like family to me at this point. He just kind of would like take us all under his wing and like really care about us and like show us performance, yeah, to sing. So, apart from production and engineering, like he would help with, uh, performing and like help me become like the singer performer I wanted to be okay and um, definitely very interesting, um, but overall just so supportive, yeah, just so loving, so thank god.

Sam:

Yeah, it could have been worse. Right, it like things always could be worse, but they weren't and I'm glad I was born at this time glad I was able to experience these things, yeah yeah, of course.

Daijné:

So when you were like presenting yourself like your online self, did you do that intentionally or did you just kind of see like when you were online versus when you were in person, you were received different, and so then you kind of leaned more into that Like which came first?

Sam:

Um, I would say, like I kind of perceived it um that I was being perceived differently online and it wasn't like I was trying to like hide, right, I feel like it just doesn't matter yeah, no, it shouldn't matter.

Daijné:

It shouldn't matter like it should just be your skill set.

Sam:

Yeah, if you have the skill it, it don't matter just bring good music, for sure um, so I wasn't really trying to like circumvent it.

Daijné:

It just so happened to be that way, yeah and but what I did? Realize it, I was like, okay, I'm gonna use it as you should, absolutely yeah and yeah, I just you did what you had to do, did what I did do what anybody else would do.

Sam:

Yeah, sir, like they just produced music.

Daijné:

Yeah, okay, cool. I was just curious, not like I. Like I said, I feel know, use your, use any advantage that you can, but I was just curious which one came first.

Sam:

I will say, though, like um, I do realize that, as a black woman, and me being aware that I am a black woman, yeah. There's also a part of it where I'm also coloring my own experience by that.

Daijné:

Yeah.

Sam:

Yeah, so it's like and I'm I'm taking ownership for that now, because the beautiful thing about being online is that that's completely removed and I could be whoever I want to be. Yeah, but when I go into a room, I'm now realizing how much of it is, how much they perceive me as a black woman and how much I perceive myself through that lens as well. Yeah, if that makes any sense.

Sam:

So not to say that it could not be equal parts. Maybe it's equal part, but at the same time now I'm like realizing I can carry myself even more confidently yeah. Regardless of what, how they perceive me Right, I know I got the skill.

Daijné:

You know who you are, I know who I am, and that's all that matters, for sure.

Sam:

And that's like one of the biggest gifts that the pandemic has given me, is like just skill that god gave you the skill to be able to put out good music and if they, don't receive it, dust off your shoes and walk to the next right, they're not the people that you should be around, anyway, exactly, exactly.

Daijné:

So, yeah, okay, I love that. I love that, okay. My next question is what's been your most fulfilling experience so far in the music industry and what are some things that you would like to achieve? Wow, okay, most fulfilling experience um, and that can be like personal fulfillment, professional fulfillment, like any sort of fulfillment?

Sam:

um, yeah, it's, it's an ongoing process of growth. Yeah, for sure, for sure, um, I will say. Then the thing that has really fulfilled me was being a part of the vocal class and being with under craig darian and his tutelage, because he taught not only just like the ins and outs of like vocal performance, but just like like spiritually. He really helped and just like maintained us in like faith, and that really helps a lot because, the industry not only is changing a lot, yeah you're don't have time to rest and you always have to like, oh my god, what I gotta do now, what I gotta do this?

Sam:

yeah, we all know how infamous the industry is and now the terrible stuff that goes behind closed doors.

Sam:

That's now coming to light right in recent years. Yeah, um, but that part of like spiritual fulfillment and faith is really needed, especially in an industry that can really like disrupt your psyche yeah, a lot. And through that I kind of like had a lot of fulfillment personally, because it's really led me to reconnect with my faith, okay, and just really have God in my life as like a stronghold so that, no matter what room I walk in, no matter what deals in front of me, if it's not for me, I have the discernment to be like no this isn't for me.

Sam:

Yeah, I don't want like it doesn't matter how much money you're giving me. Yeah, your morals are your morals are more important. It doesn't matter who's at the party, who's at the studio.

Daijné:

Yeah, I'm not going.

Sam:

Right, it's not a good place to be. Yeah, so that has been the most fulfilling part of it all just gaining the faith to carry myself through that and, honestly speaking, um, right now I'm in like a season of learning peace yeah because, like I'm not sure if you noticed it, but like in in tiktok, like every other person's trying to make their song go viral, every other person's trying to make their song go viral.

Sam:

Yeah, the other person's yeah, and it's a lot it's ever changing and it's easy to find ways of excitement, yeah, but to find, like you can look at a lot of artists interviews, like even big artists, like all the way at the top from the weekend and I don't know, like whoever you could think, right, you can look at their interviews. They can manufacture excitement they are excited. Things are always happening, big things are always happening.

Sam:

But one thing I don't see a lot of the times these days is peace like no one talks about peace just being at peace, just being at peace, like when the curtain is down, when the stage light is off, when you're by yourself. Do you have the peace for your mind to not go a million miles a minute? Right, yeah, a lot of us, a lot of them don't a lot.

Sam:

I didn't have it for a while, yeah, that was like a new revelation to me, like recently, and so, like um back to the earlier question of like, oh, my music comes out really organic. That's one thing I've really been taking into account. Not producing to try and like manufacture excitement or like yeah like try and quell my anxieties. Like oh my gosh, what if I don't become like?

Sam:

famous or anything, yeah we know, like especially that dochi song going around yeah, I love dochi. Yeah, I don't know about singing about anxiety, I'm sorry, oh I love, I love her. But like, after a certain while it becomes like a mantra in your life to be saying that I'm like.

Daijné:

I like the song I can't be listening to it, yeah, bad, see, I see, and I feel like that's such an interesting thing about, um, music is like everyone has their own interpretation of it. Yeah, and I feel like it's kind of. I love the song because I struggle a lot with anxiety. Yeah, and the song to me, like with all, like the overlapping voices and stuff, it's like a musical representation of what my anxiety feels like, and so when I listen to it, I focus on one voice at a time and like, when I am going through anxiety, that's what I have to do, yes, and so it helps me, like, remember to do that in real life situations. Does that make sense? So, but I can also understand. The other interpretation is like you're kind of speaking things into existence as well yeah, yeah, yeah, you're kind of like focusing, yeah, existence as well.

Daijné:

Yeah, yeah, yeah You're kind of like focusing on it.

Sam:

And, honestly speaking, that perspective, the reason why I think it's so popular that song is because it's showing the state of the world right now yeah. And like everyone's feeling it yeah. So when the song blew up, it blew up at the time it did because everyone's feeling it.

Daijné:

Everyone's feeling anxiety right now. Everyone's feeling anxiety right now.

Sam:

Everyone's feeling it right now. Yeah, and I don't blame them?

Daijné:

I really don't.

Sam:

And it's just I know that I also, like, had struggled with it for some time Mm-hmm. So like it's a relatable song. But because it's relatable, everyone has different reactions to it. Right, like you love it because it's like relatable I'm like it's too close to home.

Daijné:

Yeah, I yeah, I understand. No, I told and that's totally okay. Yeah, yeah, so that makes absolute sense to me too. Second part of the question what's something like you hope to achieve um, something I hope to achieve.

Sam:

Um, another body of work would be nice. I'm I'm currently working on another. Well, I'm always like writing stuff yeah stuff. I always enjoy it. Yeah, I would like to do another body of work and um, like an album. Yeah, like an album. Okay, um, I'm working with a lot more natural sounding instruments so instead of like 808s and like process kicks.

Sam:

Um, I'm trying to like use more like sampled uh drum, like live acoustic drums and stuff. I like to change my sound a little bit. I'm liking a lot of rock stuff right now, but we're going to see how that pans out.

Daijné:

Yeah, how that pans out.

Sam:

How it naturally comes about. I'm not too troubled if I don't get that exact achievement, but it's like something that I like to do, like to accomplish.

Daijné:

And I think that, again to the, the um organicness of your music is like you, you don't force yourself, you're. You're doing it because you like to do it, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, we try something else, and if it does like that's cool too. So, yeah, I think that that helps your music just sound very organic and again speaks to the, the passion that's in your music. Thank you, I agree. Yeah, of course, speaking of your music, um, what has been your favorite song that you've created, and also your least favorite, if you?

Sam:

have. Okay, oh, interesting. Yeah, let me see my favorite song that I've created like fully created, like my song, or can it be like something I contributed to? Also something, yeah something you contributed to also so I will talk about the story till the cows come home. I love the song. It's called crazy, and right now it's out under um my friend whose name is amber lee. She's a phenomenal singer okay, I gotta love her.

Sam:

Um the song's called crazy by amber lee, and I actually wrote that song. Oh and um, I think it was like a little bit into the pandemic. Um mike shinoda from lincoln park, the amazing rock group wow, all come to know. Love, yes, I guess he was just like he's a insanely creative guy first of all like this guy just does not stop creating and I think that's one of the ways that he like coped with the pandemic.

Sam:

Yeah, like he just kept drawing and writing and producing, like this guy's creative out the wazoo, so you could see why lincoln park is as prolific as they are, yeah, um. So he was like, oh, I'm just gonna produce fan written songs, yeah. And I was like I have this song sitting around.

Daijné:

Let me just submit it to him, right?

Sam:

Let's see what happens, yeah, and I posted it on Instagram. It got a lot of likes, but he didn't see it there. So then I posted it on Twitter. It got damn near no likes, but he saw it.

Daijné:

Isn't that crazy how that works.

Sam:

That's works. That's so crazy. Like okay, you said period, so he he was like, okay, I would love to produce the song and he did. And like I got my friend to sing it because I wasn't as confident as a singer at that point gotcha, but I was like I'll have her sing it and like, honestly, I just I just adore that whole, how it came to be it was.

Daijné:

I love that. Yeah, it was so fun, that's so cool, um and least favorite song.

Sam:

That's a more interesting question yeah, let me see, let me see, um, um, let me be, let me be totally honest. There's always something like about each one of my songs. I would say, okay, always something I like about each one of my songs. It's kind of hard for me to. I'm also trying to like go through my discovery. Yeah, and the thing about it is that I always remember my favorites yeah always remember yeah I won't say I won't say I don't dislike the song. I won't say that I adore this song.

Sam:

So many people adore this song, um, and it's actually one of my most streamed songs yeah uh, it's actually also one of my most vulnerable songs, yeah, but the reason I want to say this song in particular is just because my voice has changed so much and I think I was trying to go for this effect of like being this beyonce like whitney. Yeah, yeah, and I guess it does sound good, but I'm just like I don't know if I'm like that's a vocalist.

Daijné:

Okay, it's called winter flower, no sam I, I will not accept any winter flower slander.

Sam:

No, no okay, I adore the song. I think it was written to the nines. It's just the performance. I've grown okay that's fair. That's not fair, that's why I'm like maybe it was the wrong song to pick up for like least, but I'm just saying like it's just, you're not that person anymore. Yeah, if I could redo the performance, I would I I would perform it definitely differently now yeah it's just interesting to hear how my voice has changed has changed, yeah okay, but let me, let me see if there's actually no, but that makes sense.

Daijné:

I I understand, like, obviously, again, I just keep saying this. But you, I can tell that you put a lot of time and effort into your songs and a lot of passion. So I figured that that question would be a little bit like you know, like trip you up a little bit. Yeah, um, that's the reason I asked it I actually like that.

Sam:

I was like, oh yeah, least favorite. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I do have it, but like there's always something to enjoy about every single one of my songs yeah, even if it's like, not subjectively the best song in my opinion yeah, I'm like I put this out because I really like this part right, I really like high performance, right right so I always enjoy something about my songs I think, that's just.

Daijné:

I'm blessed to enjoy it yeah, and that's that's the beauty of of being a creative is you enjoying your own work? That's like the most important thing I feel like in in my creative journey and anyone's creative journey is just enjoying what you put out like. No one likes my videos more than I do. I promise I am my biggest fan and I feel like that's so important with being a creative is just doing what you like.

Daijné:

Yes, and then that also, like I feel like that helps with your um, your authenticity, and I feel like a lot of people are searching for people who are just genuinely authentic, because there are a lot of people who are posing and not who they are in real life yeah, out there, and so I love, I love when people are just themselves and you can also just tell when you can tell like people they don't like their own music. Yes, you can tell their own stuff.

Sam:

You can tell it's just like well, what are you doing? Like, why would you do that thing? Yeah, you're not enjoying it. Why am I supposed to expect you to enjoy it like?

Daijné:

questions that need answers.

Sam:

If you don't even like it, what you want me to like for, you know like girl exactly, so yeah, okay, oh my gosh, I was not expecting that reaction oof yeah, I don't.

Daijné:

I don't enjoy that slander.

Sam:

Hmm, stream went to flower, y'all no, literally.

Daijné:

And also my other favorite song, and it's also the intro and outro music wg wg tow. Yes, what does that stand for? It's a short story, because I'm like it's not, I don't. I've been trying ever since I first heard the song. I'm like where is that in the song? So I'm glad that I said that, because I wanted to ask you that. Okay, so you get to hear the story of wg tow.

Sam:

Yes, um, I was chronically online okay, sorry, I was chronically online.

Daijné:

God forbid a woman have hogs.

Sam:

But yeah, I was just looking at all these. You know the red pill was super up there at the time yeah, and I was just like hate watching a lot of these things. First of all, that's never a healthy thing to do right, I was like rotting my brain yeah, stupid takes. But I was just, uh, so there's something in the red pill. It was really small, it was called men going their own way, so mgtow, oh. And I was like, oh, we're just gonna go and do our own thing.

Daijné:

I'm like, please do like, please don't.

Sam:

Don't threaten me with a good time, like, please, please and then so like I kind of just there's an even smaller group of women who are kind of like that too, which is like kind of fascinating to me. But, um, I kind of just flipped the m to a w and I'm and that's kind of what the song is about. Like, um, why do you always treat me like I'm nothing? Might as well just go your own way like.

Daijné:

That is my favorite line of that whole song. I'm so happy you said that Like why you always treat me like I'm nothing, when you didn't need to come my way. You didn't need to. You could have left me alone. Like, please. So literally.

Sam:

That's what it's about.

Daijné:

I'm like y'all, you could just go in peace if you don't want to be around women like please kindly exit stage left, let go yeah and it's just.

Sam:

It was a fun process making that that production came together so well. Yeah, um, the lyrics came together, so I it was just a yeah blessed with it.

Daijné:

I guess, yeah, one of my favorites too. Also, love that song, love that one, okay. Next question what's the best piece of advice you've ever gotten? The worst piece of advice and the craziest piece of advice best piece of advice I've ever gotten.

Sam:

I will say one piece of advice that um well advice, but just kind of like reading, uh that I've picked up it from the word. Um, so I won't say someone has like told me this advice yeah but like I've learned it through scripture, yeah, is that just god always got me.

Sam:

He will always provide. So there's no reason for me to be like desperate for anything. Yeah, like doesn't matter. Like if it's a lucrative deal, it doesn't matter if someone's like oh yeah, I want to work with you and we got this big placement, that's going to go to.

Daijné:

I'm like all right, cool.

Sam:

Like I just I don't. It sounds bad, but I don't take it as seriously because it's like I used to. At the beginning. I'm like, oh my God, I got to hurry up, get this big placement, got to do this gotta do that, Um, and it's it kind of induced a lot of anxiety. I was like, oh my gosh if I miss this?

Daijné:

this is it. The boat has passed. I'm never gonna.

Sam:

but that's not true, Like if, if you're given the grace to do something, God will make it happen. And not to get nervous about some person in the way of your success. No person's in the way of your success. No one is. You just have to have the faith to believe that that is something for you. And it might not look like what you think it's going to look like yeah.

Sam:

But that doesn't mean it's not going to like happen for you, happen for you, so like that's something that has been like a part of my spirit lately and it's in my heart and that's like what I've been going off of. So I don't like feel like I have to, like you know, post a million.

Daijné:

Yeah.

Sam:

Short today, a million. You know, overrun yourself, overrun myself thinking I'll never make like no, yeah, worst piece of advice I've ever gotten. Hmm, there's a ton like there's a ton of bad advice out there.

Daijné:

Oh, I just feel like so many people just use their free will all the time and love that for you sometimes, but sometimes like you shouldn't use your free will yeah, like do that please yeah please don't oh oh, I would say this is advice that I've heard for years.

Sam:

um, and it kind of stunted me a little bit be original and then know how it sounds at first, like of course you want to be your own self and find your own voice. Right, but the thing is, when you're coming into a new industry, there are people for you to learn from.

Sam:

Right, and there's especially if you're going into the space of rock music, you want to learn from the people who came before you Absolutely and like people who who have learned about the art form Dance, music you want to learn from people, you want to study how they have done stuff so you can see why it is. You enjoy what they do Right, and then you can use that and adapt that to yourself and then like have it be your own thing. It's not the best piece of advice because it kind of kind of like puts the pressure on the artist to come up with something totally unique and like totally new.

Sam:

Nothing's new under the sun right, we all using the same 12 notes and if you use something other than that, there's probably a chance it doesn't sound all the way yeah oh, truth be told, like you could be as unique as you want.

Daijné:

If it don't sound good, it doesn't sound right like okay, cool, this is unique and different. But yeah, you know, it's good for you, right like? We love that. That's really nice honey, so like yeah, it's.

Sam:

It's always good to learn from the people who have come before you, and then it's the amalgamation of learning from so many people yeah, that then becomes like who you are right.

Sam:

So, even though we can always tie back like an artist from today to someone that came before oh oh, she sounds like this, oh, she reminds me of that yeah, at the end of the day they're still an individual and you can see like, oh yeah, they have their own thing going on regardless, right, and that's kind of what I wish I would have known from the beginning from the beginning, because here I'm like oh my god, I gotta come up with my own image, my own stuff.

Sam:

Yeah, it's like I did not know I was not learning from people who came before me. Yeah, I did not know what I was doing. I needed that guidance, right, and I just needed to like study and then see what I liked and then adapt that to myself, right.

Daijné:

So yeah, so kind of piggybacking off that before we get to the third part of the question who are some of the biggest people that you've pulled inspiration from, whether it be singing, songwriting, production?

Sam:

So I really, really love Banks. I love Banks, Banks, fka, twigs. I love her, tezza Talks she's coming up. She's severely underrated. I love her, tezza Talks, she's coming up she's severely underrated. I love her. Who else? Who else? And in terms of like my inspirations, right now that I'm pulling from, I really like I'm streaming a lot of Bad Omens, if anyone knows. Like Max Space, I really like Bad Omens.

Daijné:

And oh, of course, rihanna of always one million percent like she's the blueprint for me.

Sam:

Yeah, like a lot of people are like, oh my gosh, you remind me of like rihanna. I'm like, oh, please, yes, like literally, even though she is not releasing as much now, yeah, if you go through her catalog, she's really hit every single time. Yeah, she's done rock. She is not releasing as much now. Yeah, if you go through her catalog, she's really hit every single yeah, she's done rock? She's not abm.

Daijné:

She's. Yeah, she really has. Now that I'm like thinking about it yeah, I never really like thought about it so much, but anti was, I think, the most r&b she got.

Sam:

Yeah, because before that she was doing a song called what, which was like a rock ballad, and she was doing what was it? I think it was. Was it with David Guetta?

Daijné:

She had a whole EDM thing.

Sam:

She was like the princess of EDM when it came out.

Daijné:

She had a whole summer with that.

Sam:

So, in terms of genre fluid. I want to be like that.

Daijné:

Yeah, that makes sense.

Sam:

She was just. She came out doing like, uh, dance hall music and she went to edm and pop and I love all that. Yeah, that's who I'm learning from too a lot, and just so many artists inspire me, so I love that.

Daijné:

I love that. I love like when, when artists are are genre fluid because, yeah, genres are a funny little concept, aren't they? So I love. I love when people just don't like they break out of the boxes that whatever like industry or workplace they're in, I love when they break out of those boxes and be like no, fuck your rules, I'm not doing that, and it's becoming crazier these days yeah like you're hearing genres that don't even sound like they go together right and then put, and then you put it together.

Sam:

It's like oh, that's interesting, Right, yeah.

Daijné:

It's kind of I don't like this. Yeah, the flaps, I love that. Okay, okay, so craziest piece of advice you've ever received.

Sam:

Craziest piece of advice. Well, I am a woman, so oh boy.

Daijné:

I'm already sick.

Sam:

I know a man did it. I know a man did it, but always, like just you know, trying to, it's not from a specific person, like literally right now.

Sam:

When I'm pulling these examples, it's like over time yeah of course, um, but just trying to be more sexy, or like post afforded image and it's like I don't say it's like the craziest because, unfortunately, I understand where the sentiment's coming from. Yeah, like it sells, it really does. Yeah, unfortunately, unfortunately, so unfortunate, but it's just right now. That's like the one that's coming out of my head.

Daijné:

Yeah, Like the craziest piece of advice.

Sam:

It's crazy to me because I'm like, if I'm blessed to have this skill and to put forth this skill, why does it matter?

Daijné:

It shouldn't, it should not matter. And yeah, that is definitely a crazy piece of advice because, again, it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't matter, you shouldn't have to, your physical shouldn't matter more than your actual skill set Exactly, exactly, exactly, yeah, oh my gosh.

Sam:

As soon as I end this example, I'm like oh, there's another. I won't, I won't say it's the craziest piece of advice, but I think it's definitely something that's prevalent in today's culture, especially in new york city yeah, working yourself to the bone. Oh, like this, this workaholism culture, it's crazy, it's not healthy, and I've had to learn firsthand that working super, duper hard on paper and in front of people looks, looks nice.

Sam:

It's like, oh my gosh, she's such a hard worker, You're such a oh my God, it's definitely going to happen to you because you work so hard.

Daijné:

Yeah.

Sam:

But it's not healthy. You work so hard, yeah, um, but it's not healthy, it's it. It can kind of jade you a little bit because it's like if something doesn't happen on your schedule, on your time, it's like I'm putting in all this work why is it happening? Yeah, and it can like really make it feel like, um, it can really harden your heart to like being a creative yeah it and it's just it's not healthy.

Sam:

It's not just creatives, but like anyone in general, yeah, I agree, anyone doing anything in any career, if you're constantly working hard, expecting a result and it's not coming about, like you just have, it's not that you don't deserve something. Perhaps, if you got it, it's probably the most detrimental thing that could happen to you. Yeah, so you're missing it for a reason, right? Um, and perhaps if you're working it this hard, what I realized, if is, if I work hard to get something, I probably have to keep working that hard to keep it. Yeah, that's not healthy.

Daijné:

It's not healthy yeah.

Sam:

So I'm just like that's not a good piece of advice, because sometimes you just got to sit back and have the grace to have things come to you right and to just receive them, yeah, and realize that there's so many people in this world who have just received things and it seems like they don't deserve it yeah, and it can seem unfair yeah but it's. It's like if you allow things to happen like that for you, it can happen it can happen.

Sam:

Yeah, yeah, so it's not. There's no need to be jaded like. Everyone gets their blessing in due time right yeah, don't burn yourself out.

Daijné:

Yeah, and I feel like that happens a lot because, like, especially in this like workaholic culture that we're in, a lot of people want like quick results exactly, and it's like the thing like it's gonna take time, like you have to put in work to put to um, get to like your goals or whatever. You know what I mean. So and I feel like a lot of people are like okay, I put this thing out, like where's my um? Yeah, where's my profit or whatever morality?

Sam:

yeah, it's my like going like getting millions and billions of streams, yeah, and it's like, okay, see that you're working hard. But also, maybe the whole process wasn't just about you putting in the work to make the product happen yeah, maybe it was about working it in you yeah, maybe this version of you is not supposed to have it.

Daijné:

Right, wait, I love that, keep going.

Sam:

And the version of you that's supposed to have it will come about.

Daijné:

It'll yeah, just be patient, don't bring yourself out. Be, you know, consistent and sustaining, but don't bring yourself out because you know, right, of course, absolutely, I love that Delayed gratification. That's what I was trying to say. Oh, yeah, yeah. Delayed gratification is like people don't like that. They want the gratification immediately. Yeah, no, not healthy, okay, um, just a few more questions.

Sam:

Sorry, I'm like talking to your ear off okay.

Daijné:

So who is your dream music collab like artist producer? Do you have any like?

Sam:

um, I will say I I look you suck at collaboration.

Daijné:

I'll go hold you, I get. I thought we had great experience, see, never mind shining view.

Sam:

Take that back, retract that. But um yeah, no, I think it's an inner feeling. That's not true. I feel like I suck at collaborations, um so like when I get in the room I always get nervous, or when I'm saying something I always feel like I'm nervous, right, right, but um, moving forward. In the future, my dream collaboration would be going back to the rock band bad omens, their lead singer, and I think it's so like, indicative of the times their lead singer is also pretty much their lead producer yeah, like he produces a lot of their stuff.

Sam:

It's so amazing yeah, that's amazing tutorials well, not tutorials, but he has like live streams of his process, like of him producing the music. Um, his name is no, no, sebastian, and like it's. I would love to collab with him, yeah, on some stuff. I guess that would be like my number one dream collab, um, and a bunch of producers that are behind the scenes.

Sam:

I always love like looking at the credits to see who's there yeah, but yeah, it's I, I think he, I think out of everyone, it would be him right now. But also I'm just kind of like realign right, aligning what I do and like figuring yourself out figuring myself out so while he's up there, up there in the air, um, I think, whoever comes at the time, that they do and. I'm ready for it. It's gonna be a great collaboration.

Daijné:

Yeah, of course that is yeah, okay, nice, I love that if you could erase a song from everyone's memory and re-release it as your own. What song would it be, and why? What would you change and what would you keep the same? Oh, that's such a great question.

Sam:

Oh my gosh there's a whole bunch of songs I'd steal. Oh my gosh, uh, erase it from everyone's memory. That's so like, meticulously worded, thank you, thank you, I would say I don't know if I could like, maybe I would rework the key. It's in. Okay, maybe Limits by Bad Omens it's really nice. Okay, I really like that one. Um what Now? By Rihihanna, because why not?

Daijné:

why? Why not go pick up some rihanna? All right, what would you change? Or keep the same about what now?

Sam:

I would keep it the same. It's such a beautiful song yeah it is a good one. It's like it's a it's a piano ballad that goes into a rock, ending it so well crafted. I love it. Yeah, I adore it. Yeah, I think I'll stay with those two for now. Yeah, but I promise you like after this I'm going to be like oh, this song is my favorite, yeah, yeah, and like a lot of the songs I would steal actually sound kind of like depressive, but I would like to steal some happy songs along the way too.

Sam:

Yeah, um, but I'm just drawing a blank right now oh good, oh good, um okay.

Daijné:

So what are some things that you've been working on? What's some new stuff you've been releasing?

Sam:

yes, anything like that. Um, some new stuff. Well, I released a song a last year called. It's such a depressing title. It's called Alone in the World. It goes back to earlier questions about one of my favorite songs I made. That one's definitely up there. Oh my God. I did that one from A to Z. That one's on me so you can search up Alone in the World, sam Champagne, and you'll find it, and absolutely adore that one Stream, that one yeah it's a good one, please, so it's really good.

Daijné:

It's a good one.

Sam:

But I've been working a lot of stuff production-wise and just rearranging my sound. But the biggest thing that I've done recently, which was so new to me but I'm so glad I got to do it because I never thought I like it this much was I actually released the book. Yeah, amazing, I released the book and I was like the downtime between releasing songs and like the whole hype behind releasing songs or doing shows. Yeah, it gets a little bit boring. I'm not gonna lie to you and like, as a producer, because of technology, I'm usually producing on my own. Yeah, so it's like I was. I guess I was bored one day and I just started typing out all this stuff about production because I like okay, it goes back to me sucking at collaborations, it's like, even though I feel like I don't do well with collaborations. That's all in my head.

Daijné:

Yeah, clearly.

Sam:

Even so, I still want to collaborate and I still want the feeling of bouncing ideas off of someone else or something else to draw the idea out. So I wrote a book that is pretty much a copy of my brain. I love that and literally I put down all this stuff in there that I would use to bring my ideas to life. Okay, because even though I have all this knowledge, for some reason when I sit in front of a computer, not all of it is accessible to me all at the same time.

Daijné:

Right, right.

Sam:

I don't know why that is yeah, but I'm like I have all of this and I know I can do all this and some days I forget that I could do certain things. Yeah. So when I put it down in this book, I'm like I could go back to this book and like draw from that and like remind myself oh, I could do this, oh, I could do that and continue to spark those ideas. So um, the book is called yeah, what's it called?

Daijné:

where is it available all that good stuff?

Sam:

so the viewers who are watching, you'll be able to see the, the book itself, but if you're listening, it's called collab bro. Collab bro, based on the experience of, you know, being, uh, not known as a woman. Yeah, female producer, yeah and getting dms about collab bro.

Sam:

Yeah, I love that, I love it. Yeah, so it's like a little cheeky title and, um, basically it's about like well, it has the blurb in the back written to help you find your creative source, build confidence in your songs, guide you through each stage of your project and give you tips for every steps, every step of your music creation process. Nice, and it's like a book that you can collaborate with, so like, if you don't like, find collaborators that are like, that are like really gelling with you, yeah, struggling to do that, but you still want an outside source to collaborate with.

Sam:

This is what I would I love that because, like sometimes, like like you said, it's it's harder to find people to collab with, but there's also people who aren't at that stage yet where they feel comfortable collabing exactly and so like the book can help with that as well, exactly literally there's a part in the book where kind of just hypes you up, yeah, and it gets you confident in your ideas because, especially when you're new to the music industry, you feel like everyone knows more than you, right, and like their taste in music is somehow better than yours, which is not necessarily true.

Daijné:

Right you love music.

Sam:

You love certain music for a certain reason. It gives you a feeling, it gives you an emotion, yeah, and it's basically teaching you to have confidence in that love that you once enjoyed that genuine love for it. You can never go wrong with trusting in love right never, never, never so, um, the book kind of goes into hey, trust in the fact that you love this song and that it's your baby at the end of the day and, um, it pulls a full idea out of you.

Sam:

So when you go into a room and you like hear other people's ideas, you aren't too easily swayed like, especially if they're like no, no, this, no, this is going to be great, this is going to be great. Disagreements might come about, right, things might like pull you from one side to the other. So it's like if you know exactly where you want this song to go, or if you know that, hey, I don't really feel that idea yeah, you can this?

Daijné:

book kind of like.

Sam:

You feel confident in saying that, confident in saying that, like, I know where I want to take it, right, right. So, yeah, that's based off of my own experiences and what I wish someone would have told me or taught me.

Sam:

yeah, especially as a producer, in some of these rooms yeah and a producer on my own, really and these things would definitely. All these tips are made to help cultivate your sound and like give you ideas and easier ways to like figure out where your sound is and to lay it down and just pull a full song idea. So it's not just for music producers, it's for music producing artists yeah, yeah, so I'm not sure if that's a term, but that, like that's the most succinct way I could put the term.

Sam:

Yeah, music producing artists I feel like most artists these days, because of the technology, is so, you know, out there and like available to everyone. Yeah, that's where most artists are now. They're producing their own music, they're recording themselves they're, they're writing their own songs and it can get isolated a little bit and you kind of get stuck in your head. This book can help you get out of that a little bit I love that, I love that.

Daijné:

And going back to what you were saying about like, just like knowing who you are when you walk into a room, because like you were saying earlier, like the music industry, a lot of the stuff that goes behind on behind the scenes is really scary really, and you can get sucked into that world quickly. So I love that you know it.

Sam:

It's a book that can help you like basically just stand on business stand on business and especially going that back to that point, it's just because it's the music industry like I hear a lot of stuff about the news that's going on and a lot of these big studios that used to be around new york city, a lot of them are shutting down. Um, I'm not sure exactly what the reason is. I can't. I'm not the expert on why that is maybe it's a combination of factors I believe.

Sam:

Um, a lot of them are shutting down and the the rise of the home studio is kind of like happening, where it's like everyone built a studio at home, got it, so they make music at home. So what's happening with collaborations these days is that people are inviting others to their homes, which can be very, very yeah, not the safest not the safest, yeah um, so one of the things about this book, um, it's not a technical book.

Sam:

I will say that it won't go into like the ins and outs of technicality. Yeah, because, um, interestingly enough, even though it is hard, I feel like there's a lot of information out there that can help people to record and start making their own songs.

Sam:

Yeah, but other than that, it can kind of help to uh circumvent some of those um situations yeah yeah, so like, if you don't exactly feel comfortable going to someone else's houses to to collaborate, you can have this book to kind of pull a full idea out of you. You could send it off to them instead. Um, it's kind of unfortunate that some of these things happen the way that they do. Yeah, for sure, but that's why. That's why we're blessed to have the access to technology, if need be, the access, access to resources and the access to the information I put in this book and in the interwebs, of course, always to the audience. Whenever you're going into collaboration, stay safe, bring people with you whatever you got to do, and, if anything, there's always a way for to like work that you could send it off to a person rather than going to where they are. I always want to put forward safety first of course, absolutely above all else like the creativity and the collaboration can be fun.

Sam:

Just make sure you're safe.

Daijné:

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Great advice, great advice, um. And if you're ever looking for someone to work with, where can they find you, sam?

Sam:

um, they can find me at sam champagne, nyc on pretty much all platforms, I believe and if you're in the new york city or new york area, um, I do engineer sessions and record people and produce beats, as you can see and they're amazing. Yes, yes and yeah, just reach out. Say hi. If you have any questions, I'm always here to answer. I love engineering, I love music. It's all my bread and butter. So please, please, reach out.

Daijné:

Don't hesitate to reach out, I'm always happy to connect, yeah, and not only is she well versed and has the education, she's passionate about it, and I feel like that is so important as well to not only is she well versed and has the education, she's passionate about it, and I feel like that is so important as well to not only work with people who know what they're talking about, but also people who love what they're talking about.

Sam:

You know what I mean, and I love this I love this so much um also stream of music on, well, all platforms everywhere, everywhere.

Sam:

I stream on spot, but everywhere, everywhere, and yeah, I love to hear your thoughts and all that stuff. Oh, if you get this book oh yeah, where can people find the book? Right now? It's on Amazon. Okay, leave me a review. And I have another book out there for producers as well, called the Producer's Notebook. Okay, it's just a notebook specifically for for producers and engineers, but super helpful. I use mine all the time, so check it out, and I think that's the whole schlep of all the things I'm doing amazing I love it.

Daijné:

I love it, I love it. Um any final thoughts, final pieces of advice, just anything else you wanted to, yeah um, I mean thank you for having me here.

Sam:

Thank you, oh my God.

Daijné:

I was so excited because this Sam, as you guys know, is my first person who's come on the pod and I was so excited. I was nervous for some reason, I don't know why, but I was just so excited when you texted and were like, and not you asking, is it still an option? Of course, it is always an option. Like I want you to come back, like I love whenever we get to connect, and I just love your energy and you're just so much fun.

Sam:

I love your energy as well, thank you, and just like, your ability to carry conversation is unmatched. I adore it. Oh, thank you, I adore it, that's so sweet and yeah, just to, like I said, just to see how far this podcast is coming. I am so excited, thank you. Like I'm the first, definitely not going to be the last, so guys keep an eye out and we're going to see more amazing topics from you as well.

Daijné:

And more amazing stuff from Sam as well. I just love people who are following their dreams, and this is always something that's been a dream for me. I can tell that music is something that you're super passionate about, and a dream for you as well, and I just love seeing especially women because I love women follow their dreams and do whatever they want to do. So thank you for coming. I appreciate it so much. Thank you, my love. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. Follow Sam, stream her music, buy her book All of the things. Yes, do we have an outro yet? No, I just kind of say peace and love. Talk to you later.

Daijné:

And then your music comes out. Yes, yes, yes, oh wait, okay, yeah, so let's do it. Okay, let's do it together. Peace and love. Talk to you later. The napkin in between, hosted by dajane jones, produced by dajane jones, post production by dajane jones, music by sam champagne and graphics by isma vital. Don't forget to like and subscribe. See you next episode.