The Napkin In Between
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The Napkin In Between
I Fell In Love With My Psychiatrist....????
Finding your voice can be one of life's most challenging yet essential skills. As a former therapist with a master's degree in social work, I offer a unique perspective on the viral TikTok controversy where a woman claims her psychiatrist reciprocated romantic feelings. I break down why basic rapport-building techniques are often misinterpreted as romantic interest, and why clear boundaries are crucial in professional relationships.
Drawing from my experience working with vulnerable populations, I explain the importance of documentation, clear communication, and appropriate measures when boundaries are crossed. It's a delicate balance, but it must be maintained; while the main priority of mental health professionals is to help clients, they must also protect themselves from misinterpretation and potential harm to their reputation and career.
Whether you're struggling to speak up for yourself or working in a field where professional boundaries are essential, this episode offers valuable insights into the delicate balance of setting boundaries while maintaining respect and dignity for all involved. Remember, sometimes the bravest thing we can do is speak up, even when our voice is shaking.
Subscribe to Napkin in Between for more candid conversations about life's challenges and the courage it takes to face them head-on.
Is this thing on? Hello, hello. Uh-oh, another yapper with a mic. Ha ha ha ha. Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Napkin in Between podcast. I am your host, Daijné Jones. I hope everyone has been having a good week, except for that orange drink lady, of course.
Daijné:This week I decided to pamper myself. Hope everyone has been having a good week, except for that orange drink lady, of course. This week I decided to pamper myself. I said, as if I don't pamper myself literally every week, I, okay, confession, I have a spending problem. I, I have a spending problem. I just feel like I'm grown and if I want to treat myself to something and I have the money sitting there, like why not do it? And the thing is I'm fighting demons when it comes to spending and the demon is me. Like I'll say to myself like okay, we're going to budget, this is money for this, we're going to put some money aside, we're going to, you know, do this, that and the third, and I'll set these like standards and goals for myself. And then I'll come in and I'll set these like standards and goals for myself. And then I'll come in and I'll look at them and I'll say to myself like I'm grown as fuck and I have free will and I have the money, so why not, you know, spend it on what I want to spend it on. And it's like I I'm not as bad as I could be. I do have like a nice little savings and I'm okay. I just feel like, oh, like I'm gonna treat myself like, and the thing is, what happens is I'll be doing so well, like, for example, with cooking. The things that I mostly spend my money on is like clothes, food but I'll be like I'm gonna cook all week, like I'm not gonna order out because I'm like I just bought all these groceries and so I need to to cook them, right, and so what I'll do is I'll cook for several days and then I'll be like, oh my God, we're doing so good, like let's treat ourselves, and then I'll like order out, and then it just becomes an everyday thing. So it's not really a treat, like treats are supposed to be here and there, you know, and I just do it whenever I feel like it.
Daijné:Anyway, I treated myself and I got my nails done, which I love getting my nails done. I love getting pedicures. It's one of my favorite things to do. It's like a form of self-care for me. But it's interesting because, like, going to the nail salon is my happy place, but it's also a place that gives me a lot of anxiety, because I really struggle with like speaking up if I don't like something and I've gotten a lot better but I used to be the person who would like get my nails done, absolutely hate them.
Daijné:Look the beautician in her face or the nail lady in her face. Say, oh my god, thank you, I love them so much, pay her, tip her and then come home and cry about them. And I'm like I I can't keep doing that, right, like if I don't like something, I need to be vocal about it and like let them know because, at the end of the day, it's my money that I'm spending, so I need to. If I'm going to be spending my own money, I need to like make sure I like what I'm spending my money on. You know what I mean?
Daijné:And so I'm at the nail salon and I'm getting a full set of acrylics. And it's to the point, like we're very early in like the nail process, like she had just glued the nails on and now we're like cutting them to the length that I want, right. And so she's asking me what length I want. I like my nails to be like a little bit long, but not too long, like I still wanna be able to function Not saying that you can't function with longer nails, but for me personally, like it's just they get in the way. And so I was like telling her like what, or like showing her what length I wanted them. And so she's cutting all of my nails and I noticed that my thumb is really really short, and so I'm just like am I tripping? Like I'm watching her shape them, and I'm like these are really like not all the same length.
Daijné:And so now I'm sitting there and I'm getting filled with anxiety because I'm like shit, like I I have to say something. Like my nails look crazy, like they were all just like they looked like um, jagged, like they were just not all the same length. And so I'm like fuck, like I have to say something. So I'm sitting there and I'm like playing over in my head, like I'm like scripting you know what I mean like this is what I'm gonna say, this is how she's gonna respond, and like like I'm just trying to like visualize in my head how this interaction is gonna go. So I finally, like I speak up and I say, oh, I think the thumb I just said the thumb because I was like let's start like small, you know. So I go, the thumb is really short.
Daijné:And she looks at my thumb and she goes, just looks at it and goes OK, and then she just keeps shaping my nails and I'm like, oh girl, that wasn't your line, like you were supposed to say. Oh my God, I'm sorry, like, let me fix it. Like you, you went off script, the script that I planned in my head. You went off of it. And so I'm sitting there and she's like, not she just continuing to like go on with doing my nails. And I'm like, fuck, this is awkward.
Daijné:So I say again, I say you know, my thumb is really short. And she looks at it again and she goes you'll like it at the end, you'll like it at the end, like, don't worry. And I'm like I don't. Like I said this in my head. I say like I don't like it now. So, like I know that I'm not gonna like it at the end because it's already like I want all my nails to be the same length. But she's like trying to sit here and convince me like, oh, it's okay, like you'll like it at the end, and I'm like no, like I won't. And now I'm like panicking because I'm like, oh, this is like not going how I scripted it in my head. So I say one more time I'm like my thumb is really short. It's shorter than all the other nails.
Daijné:And I go see, like I show her my pointer finger, which is the length that I wanted, and then I show her my thumb and it's like significantly shorter, like there's a there's length on my pointer finger, but on my thumb it looks like a nub, like no, like length to it, if that makes sense. And so I have them like side by side to show her like see, like these are two different lanes. And so she's just staring at me and so I go, are we able to make the thumb the same length? And she's like it's a style, it's a style, you'll like it at the end it's okay. And I'm like I've never seen this style before in my entire life, like I've seen the pointer and the middle finger be like a little bit shorter, like for my walla walla girlies, and I love that for them. But like I, I don't want that, like I want all my nails to be the same length and also like, even if that is a style, why are you freestyling on my nails? Like I don't, I didn't ask for that. I wanted them all the same length. You know what I mean. And so, like I still like I can feel my heart pounding because this is already a lot for me to even speak up. And so I'm like, oh, okay, like I understand that that's a style, but like I just wanted them all the same length. I'm like I I apologize to say I'm sorry if, like, I asked for the wrong thing, but like, yeah, I didn't, I didn't want, you know, all my nails to be a different length.
Daijné:And then one of her co-workers, who's been like listening to this entire interaction, beside her, she's doing someone else's nails. She looks over and she says, don don't worry, like we'll fix it. And so I said, okay, thank you. And so the woman who was doing my nails like gets up and walks away, so I'm just sitting there. And then the woman who was working on someone sitting beside me, she finishes her and then she says, like for me to move over to her chair. And so I'm sitting in her chair now and I looking at all my fingers and she goes, yeah, all of these nails are not the same length. And I was like, okay, period, because like I thought I was tripping and I had only mentioned the thumb, but yeah, they were all not. Like, they were all. Just I don't know what she did, she was just freestyling and like made all the different nails. I wish I had taken a picture so I could like insert it into this video now. But like, all of the nails were just a different length. And so I asked the lady I'm like, can we fix all of them or do we need to like stop? Because like I was like I don't want to go any further, like I don't want all my nails to be a different length, and she's like, no, no, don't worry. Like we can fix them. So she takes off the nails and then makes get it.
Daijné:It is like and I don't even understand why, but it is so anxiety inducing to tell someone who's doing a service for you that that you don't like the thing that they're doing, because it's like I think, the way that I think about it in my head, it's like you're, you're the one like the one, like you know what you're doing, right, like you're the one who went to school for this, you're the one who studied this, or have been doing this for however long, like whatever. So for me to come in and be like, yeah, no, I don't like this, I just feel like, oh, like, am I hurting your feelings? Because, like, that's not my goal, but my goal is to have something that I like too, because, like, I'm paying for it, but it's just, oh, it gives me so much anxiety to speak up and to be like, yeah, I don't, I don't like this thing. And so the fact that I even did that when I was getting my nails done, I was like, period, you ate that. Like you ate that. It was a struggle because, again, I had scripted it in my head and then old girl went off script. But we got what we wanted at the end of the day and that's all that matters. And the woman who ended up doing my nails she was so understanding and so nice, like I kept apologizing, and she's like you don't need to apologize. Like you're paying me, I'm taking your money, so I need to make sure that you know you like it. To make sure that you know you like it and I said, oh, period, you ate that. Because, yes, like I'm not here to like cause problems, but also I want to make sure, like I'm getting what I like. You know what I mean. So that was definitely the pick of my week, just number one, getting my nails done. It's like again a former self-care for me, but also like speaking up for myself and setting a boundary and like being like, yeah, I don't like that, I ate that, I ate that. Uh, was it hard? Yes, did I have anxiety? Yes, was my voice shaking? Yes, but I was still speaking even though my voice was shaking, and that's all that matters. So please tell me the peak of your week, something that made you smile, kept you grounded, kept you sane in the chaos of the world.
Daijné:Speaking of boundaries, segwaying into what we're gonna talk about today, I want to talk about this woman who is attempting to do a resa tisa dupe on tiktok right now. With this whole. I fell in love with my psychiatrist and he knew and kept me on anyway series that she's doing, because I find this very it's a very interesting situation and I feel like I look at it a little bit differently because, for those of you who don't know, I have a master's degree in social work and I was a therapist for years before I got into nannying and content creation, and so I feel like I look at it more from the side of the professional and setting boundaries and like what to do in situations like this if a client is crossing those boundaries. So for those of you who might not know what I'm talking about, there's this woman on TikTok right now. Her name is Kendra and she's making this series about how she fell in love with her psychiatrist and he knew and kept her as a patient anyway, and she's detailing this story about like she has ADHD. When she was in college she was taking medication and then she stopped it and then she wanted to get back on it several years later and so she googled like a psychiatrist in her area, clicked on the first one, made an appointment, went into the appointment via zoom. It was never in person and she says that essentially from the first meeting of this man, like she noticed that he was attractive and she started to develop feelings for him. Now for me, as I was listening to the very first part, immediate red flag for me was when she says it was her first meeting. It was the intake and she trusted him and so she trauma dumped all of her past trauma onto him in the first session, like talked about her daddy issues, talked about her childhood trauma, like everything she just said. That she immediately opened up and she goes like why wouldn't I? He's a professional. That was an immediate red flag for me because yes, he is a professional, but he's still a stranger. You know what I mean.
Daijné:And also, like a psychiatrist is very different than a psychologist. A psychiatrist for those who don't know is really just med management, right. Like they just give you your medication. You meet with them at least in my experience like once a month for five to 15 minutes at a time. They ask you how your meds are going, if you have any side effects, if you feel like you need to go up or down in the dosage, and that's pretty much it. I understand the intake is a little bit longer because they have to understand who you are, but for the most part, like you don't really get that deep into conversations with a psychiatrist because they're just med management.
Daijné:On the other hand, a therapist, a psychologist, someone like that like that's like your therapy sessions, where they're hour, hour and a half long 30, like longer than the psychiatrist right and that's where you get into, like your trauma, your triggers, your the way you move through life and how you know to better those things with your therapist. And so the fact that she says she was so open to you know, just tell this man everything first meeting, because even when you have a therapist again and I'm speaking from my experience, so this is not like a universal thing, right, like everyone has different experiences, but when I was a therapist, like you go into the first session you learn a little bit about the client, but for the most part it's pretty surface level because you have to build rapport, you have to get this person to trust you so that you can dive into, you know, their trauma, unpack it, different things like that. And so for her to be just so open off rip to me was a little bit of a red flag like it seemed like from the beginning she really didn't have much of any at any type of boundary, but she continues to talk about you know, their meetings and she's, she's giving signs, I say in quotes, for how you know he knew that she had feelings for him and he had feelings as well, and the signs that she's giving are like basic rapport building things. Like, for example, she says like oh, he complimented my glasses, he said that he liked turtle, turtle print glasses, or whatever. Like see, that's a sign that he liked me and it's like he maybe just liked your glasses.
Daijné:Like I feel like she makes the, the things, the signs, so much deeper than they actually are. Like that was just a simple compliment. Or she's like he showed an interest in my interest and I'm like Again, like that is building rapport. Like he's just trying to build a safe space for you, because that's what therapy and again, he's not even a therapist but like that's what the relationship is. Like it's supposed to be a safe space so that you know, you feel comfortable sharing things with me, so that I can help you to the best of my ability. But like she was taking those things of him just like trying to build rapport and like twisting them because she had feelings for him to make it seem like he also had feelings for her.
Daijné:But in one of the parts she says that during a session she tells him that she has a crush on him. I don't know that, that she has a crush on him. I don't know that that she's the most reliable source. I don't know that I fully believe everything that she's saying and like it actually went how she, how she says it, because the things that she says are inconsistent or they change. But if she actually told him I have a crush on you keyword. If, right, if, because I again, I don't know that that even truly happened. But if it did happen and it happened the way that she says it happened, she says that she told him she had a crush on him and he was just like silent and I feel like maybe that was like a non-verbal cue, like oh, this is uncomfortable, like this is not an okay thing, like you shouldn't have a crush on me, but I it again. If it happened the way that she says it, I feel like he should have verbally told her like let's work through this. And so if that happened the way that she says it happened and she told him like outright, I have a crush on you and he didn't try to establish some sort of boundary right in that moment, because she does say that later on, when she goes to an in-person meeting with him, he says to her like we have a professional relationship. But in the moment where she says, like I have a crush on you, she says that he didn't say anything. If that is true how that happened, I think that he maybe dropped the ball a little bit there and maybe I have a different perspective, because so when I was in the field, my first job was at an inpatient psych hospital for children.
Daijné:I was the therapist for children, and when I worked at this psych hospital, I first started working there when I was in grad school. So I was a direct care worker, I was on the floor, and then, once I got my master's, they promoted me to a therapist role. But the psych hospital that I worked in, it was for boys age 9 to 18. And they all had a history of some sort of sexual abuse. Now, for those who might not know, one of the signs of sexual abuse is hypersexual activity or hypersexualness, and so for the hospital that I worked in, like any time any of the boys would be like overly sexual or say something that was sexual or whatever, like even if it could be twisted to be sexual.
Daijné:We had to write that shit down. We had to clock that shit immediately. We had to write it shit down. We had to clock that shit immediately. We had to write it down, document it. We had to set a boundary or do something to let them know like this is inappropriate, like we can't be doing that. You know what I mean. And so maybe that's why I'm looking at it in such a different light is because, like, I feel like I was trained to like any sort of sexual innuendo, anything sexual, write that shit down, document, document it, do something to try to rectify that situation.
Daijné:And again, I understand that with psychiatrists it's different, like that they're not a therapist, they have different, you know things that they have to do when things happen in their offices. But I still feel like, regardless of what type of mental health provider you are, boundaries still need to be set right. Right, like there still needs to be something and not even just like in the mental health field, like with teachers, with coaches, with whoever, like if you're in like a professional relationship with somebody, there needs to be that boundaries that are being set. And again, this is not to say that he wasn't trying to set boundaries, but again, off rip. I got the impression from her that, like boundaries aren't enough, like she, she can't handle just being like setting a professional boundary. She had already crossed that line. You know what I mean.
Daijné:And so I feel like, in the event that setting boundaries isn't working, maybe start recording the sessions, having someone else sit in on the sessions, documenting you know, any sort of advances that she's making, and if all of these things are tried and exhausted and it doesn't work, then I do think that a transfer of care should have been initiated. And I understand that things like this happen or can happen easily when it comes to someone who is providing, like, mental health care, because, again, you are creating a safe space for someone and so the line can be blurred, and so I'm not saying that he should have immediately transferred care. I understand that that's not the first response and I'm not saying that that should have been the first response. Again, I'm saying, like, set a boundary, have someone sit in, record the sessions, document what she's saying, like those should have been tried first, and if those didn't work, then, yeah, I do feel like a transfer of care should have happened.
Daijné:And I feel like her behavior right now is case in point as to why I'm saying these things, like I feel so bad for this man, because I genuinely do not think that he was trying to lead her on. I don't think that he had feelings for her. I don't think that you know he kept her in this pusher pool hot and cold bread crumbing her, as she's saying. I do not, I don't think that that was his intention or his goal or what he was trying to do Like. I do think that he was just trying to help her. But if she's already crossing those boundaries and she is saying I have a crush on you and doing all these things again, assuming that what she's saying is accurate, which I don't think that it fully is then he is not able to help her. He is not able to provide the professional help that she needs because she's not keeping it professional. And I know I made a video about this and I shared these thoughts and people were saying that, like you know him immediately transferring her could have been detrimental to her progress.
Daijné:And again I say now, when I said in the video, like I didn't say immediately transfer her, but also keeping her in this situation with keeping, like keeping him as her psychiatrist, that's detrimental to her progress and her care as well, because she's not looking at him as just like this professional who is here to help me. She is developing feelings for him, romantic feelings that are interfering with her care, right, and so I think that it's. This is all a very tricky, sticky situation and there's no one cookie cutter, correct answer to this, but I think that when you're in the field, like, yes, your priority is to help your clients, but your priority also has to be yourself as well and protecting yourself. And maybe maybe these things were happening and like it sucks because he can't even come out and defend himself because of HIPAA, but maybe these things were happening, maybe he was recording the sessions and documenting it or whatever. But clearly, again, given how she's behaving right now, that wasn't enough and I hate this for him. I'm saying this more so for his protection than for hers, cause like clearly I feel like he needed to be protected from her more than anything because now she's online, like smearing this man's name. She said that she accidentally name dropped him.
Daijné:People have found him and are, you know, posting his photo, posting his name, and it's just like I feel so bad for this man because I do genuinely think that he just wanted to help her, he just wanted to provide mental health care for her and she was so wrapped up in you know her feelings and having feelings for him and then having her feelings co-signed by a fucking ai robot like yo ai, is like for people to actually use ai as like a friend or like someone who's like you're bouncing ideas off of this robot. Like do people really not understand that? Like the AI is going to tell you what you want to hear. Like, if you're like telling them a situation and you're like I think this or whatever, they're gonna co-sign, whatever it is that you're saying, so for her to use the AI robot as like a cosign, oh, like, what is the world coming to? Like what are what are y'all doing? Truly, what is going on? Like, I'm scared for y'all that like this is not.
Daijné:No, first of all, the AI is so bad for the environment. It wastes a ton of water and also, it is that damn phone. It is Our mothers were right. It is that damn phone. Y'all have got to get off those phones and go touch some fucking grass. This is not normal, this is not healthy. This is not what should be happening. Y'all, please save yourselves. Oh, my god.
Daijné:But I just I feel so bad for this man, because I think that she's the type of person that once she's made her mind up about something, she, her mind is made up like she's not. She doesn't. She doesn't understand what a boundary is. She doesn't understand that there could be other perceptions, clear, like clearly, she doesn't understand what boundaries are. Because she says that she recorded one of their sessions, specifically the session where she told him that she had a crush on him. She said that she recorded it and she has the recording of the session. So this woman she would not know what a boundary was if it like slapped her in the face. And that's something that I feel like we have to, as mental health professionals. We have to take into account.
Daijné:I don't know how to say this in a in a better way, and I I genuinely do not mean this to to come off and sound negative, but, as a mental health professional, when you are working with people, if people are coming in for mental health help, they're not like all the way there. Do you know what I mean? Like they're. That's the reason they're coming in is because they're struggling with their mental health, or something is like not going to the best of its ability. Do you know what I mean, and I'm not trying to say that like I'm trying to figure out how to say this in a way that doesn't sound rude, because I commend people who go in for mental health help. That is huge, especially like mental health is not taken seriously enough and and people are judged or looked down upon or made to feel like lesser than for having mental health struggles. And it's like you, going in for mental health help is huge in and of itself. You being able to admit like, yeah, I need help with this thing, that is huge. And so, of itself, you being able to admit like, yeah, I need help with this thing, that is huge.
Daijné:And so I'm not saying this in a way that it's like you know, I don't mean this to be or to sound derogatory, but like if someone is coming in for mental health help, they're struggling in some sort of way, and so I feel like it's even more important to have and to set those boundaries, because I feel like it's a slippery slope when it comes to, like a therapist or a psychiatrist. It's like you're talking to them about very personal things, and so if those boundaries aren't set and they're not concrete, the professional relationship could turn into something that's not as professional like they could think like, oh, like you're my friend, or there's like a romantic connection. And I can see how, on both ends, that can be hard, because you are trying to build rapport as a therapist, a psychiatrist, whatever. You are trying to build rapport with your clients because you do want them to trust you, but those boundaries are still incredibly important and they have to be solidified and concrete so things like this don't happen. And so, as we're over today's episode, I just want to say, like anyone who's in the mental health field, who is in school for mental health, like whatever, please just remember, like boundaries and keeping the relationship professional is so incredibly important. And I'm not saying that he didn't do these things, because by her own admission, in some of her parts it does sound like he was trying to, but I don't know that. That was enough case in point. What she's doing right now, right.
Daijné:So I understand, like I'm not at all saying that you should rush to try to transfer someone if they are displaying unhealthy boundaries with you, but just make sure you're documenting, make sure you are recording if you can, having someone sit into the sessions if you can like, because at the end of the day, like you've worked so hard for this degree and to work in this field and I would hate for that to be taken when you were just trying to do your job and you were just trying to help. You know what I mean, especially if you are like a psychiatrist or like at the doctor level, like it's a lot of fucking work at any level, but like, obviously like doctorates and things like that, like that's more work than because it's a higher degree right, but any degree like that's a lot of work, it's a lot of time, it's a lot of energy and that's like you have to make sure you protect yourself as well. And again, maybe this is coming from a place of you know the work that I did we were so like every single, every, every little thing that could have been taken in in the wrong context, we had to write it down, we had to do something to document it. I think that that it's better to be safe than sorry. It's so much better to be safe than sorry. And also on the on the client end as well, because I do know that things like this do happen, but does it seem like it happened in this situation with Kendra? No, it doesn't. It seems like to me he was just trying to do his job and help her and she was so like, oh, I have feelings for this man, so she was doing anything that she could to make it seem like he also had feelings for her, but I don't think that those feelings were reciprocated at all. So, again, coming from someone who was in the field, just make sure you are protecting yourself as well. I understand that your, your main goal is to help the client, but just remember that part of helping your client is making sure that the professional boundary is not crossed. And if those cannot be kept and you're trying everything you know documenting, recording, trying to redirect those feelings or rectify them, to keep that professional line there if, if it isn't able to be kept, the best thing that you can do to help the client is to refer them to somebody else. And not only can that be the best thing to help the client, but for you as well, because I understand that the forefront of this work is to help the client, but you have to make sure that you yourself are also protected. So, moral of the story I I feel so bad for this man.
Daijné:I I hope that he is doing okay, because I know some people have found him and are posting his photo and his information and his family. Like y'all have gotta chill. That's like, that's fucking crazy. And then she is in the videos talking about some y'all found his family. I wasn't even able to do that, huh girl, like oh my god, I'm scared for him. I'm really, I'm actually scared for him because, like she just is not no shade, she's not well and like that sucks. Like I'm not trying to speak badly about her, speak badly about mental health, because, like it is a real thing and people do really struggle, but it's clear like she needs help. I hope that she finds the help that she needs as well and I hope that this man is okay and he has done some sort of documentation or something to make sure that you know his license is okay and he can continue to practice.
Daijné:Because, like this is just really really scary and it makes me really scared for mental health professionals because, yes, the main priority is, you know, the patient, but also, how do we protect ourselves as well? How do we make sure that you know we don't lose our jobs or our livelihood or our reputation isn't tarnished, while also simultaneously trying to be there to help. You know our clients. So I think best thing to do is to document, record, have someone sit in if you can, just try everything to make sure that those professional boundaries are not crossed. Those professional boundaries are not crossed.
Daijné:And if that does not work, I would say in a transfer, because at the end of the day, if someone is having romantic feelings for you, you can't really be there for them in the way that they need you to be, because the way that you are supposed to be there for them is a professional way and if they're crossing those professional boundaries, you can't even really help them to the best of your ability or to, like, the extent that they need that help. So, yeah, just make sure as the professional, you're also protecting yourself and again I'm speaking with to mental health providers right now, but this goes for anyone who's in any sort of professional relationship like, just make sure you are documenting and keeping track of everything, just to make. It's always better to be safe than sorry. That's basically what I'm trying to say. Like, always better to be safe than sorry. So just make sure again, yes, you are there to help your client, but just make sure you are protected and okay as well.
Daijné:Thank you guys so much for watching this episode. I hope everyone's having a good day, except for that orange drink lady, and I will talk to you in the next episode. Peace and love. Talk to you later. The Napkin in Between, hosted by Daijné Jones, produced by Daijné Jones, post-production by Daijné Jones, music by Sam Champagne and graphics by Isma Vidal. Don't forget to like and subscribe.