First-Time Obedience

Liz

Okay , welcome to our One Blessed Mess with Ben and Liz , and we are so excited that you're here today because we are telling our story of raising six kids in eight years while having an entrepreneurial home , homeschooling and also currently raising four teenagers Four right Soon to be how many then Soon to be five , soon to be five .

Ben

Yes , it's still crazy to think about that .

Liz

It is because it's so loud in our house .

Ben

It is .

Liz

We thought it was really loud when the kids were little , which it was loud when they were little , but now that they're older it's like booming men voices .

Ben

Man voices screaming , yes . Female voices screeching voices , women voices yeah , it's like not little kid cute voices anymore . It's like no oh my gosh , that like splits my ear .

Liz

Yeah , it gets oh yeah , and it gets pretty loud and then like the logic as they're forming , their logic is quite hilarious and also , too , is just like big feet and flappy arms and I feel like laughing , but it's true . Well , they're just like they're not because they're growing so fast , it's like their arm like go go gadget arms .

Liz

Like it's too big for their bodies too big for their bodies and for the riches , but no , seriously , like it's . It's very interesting because they're still like puppies in a way . You know they think they're all big and bad , but really they're super tender . And somebody gave me some great advice about teenagers this mom who had 10 kids and this is back when the kids were really little and I was so nervous I just kept thinking what is it going to be like ? It's going to be , you know , is it going to be terrible ?

Ben

no-transcript they might look done , but on the inside not so much .

Liz

They're not so much .

Ben

Got to bake a little longer .

Liz

Yeah , they got to bake a little . Yes , they got to bake a little longer . And then also too , you know , they are trying to formulate their ideas and all that kind of stuff and it's really a fun stage . I mean , somebody has asked me recently I forget where I was I think it was a grocery store , because I'm at the grocery store and they said you know what is it like with teenagers ? And I said it's awesome . I've loved every stage of our children growing up . There has not been a stage that I haven't enjoyed . I mean , yeah , I didn't enjoy sleepless nights and the puking and some of those kind of things , but I've enjoyed them developing and growing in every age and every stage , and there's not one that I've not enjoyed . You know , and I think it's all about perspective , but this is not what we're talking about today . This is such a rabbit trail .

Ben

We're known for the rabbit trails .

Liz

Yeah , we're known for the rabbit trails , but what we have to talk about today is pretty awesome . I mean , it's a good topic .

Ben

Well , it's slightly controversial . I guess you could say yeah , we are going to be talking about obedience , okay , so that's our big topic today . Yep , we might do two episodes with this . I'm not sure , it just depends on how we go with this first one , but there's a lot of content here and there's a lot of nuance too , so we want to take our time with this . We want to try to explain this concept of first-time obedience . That's specifically what we want to talk about .

Liz

F-T-O .

Ben

F-T-O first-time obedience .

Liz

F-T-O .

Ben

You might not have heard of that before . You might be thinking what is first-time obedience ?

Liz

Well , I'm glad you may be thinking that , because we are going to try to answer that First time obedience is Wait before you jump into that , before you jump into the definition of it , I just want to say that what we're about to share is something that we wish we had learned early on , when we were raising our kids . We did not know about this until probably , I mean , we had four or five kids , yeah , and there was like a whole group of them , yeah , and we are definitely outnumbered , way outnumbered .

Ben

But even when there was a group of them , we're still talking about what like six and under .

Liz

Yeah , age-wise , yeah , age-wise , probably four or five and busy , busy , busy lives with raising and all the things that that involves and we were trying to figure it out . He had his experiences and how he was raised . I had my experiences and how I was raised .

Ben

We were in some parent .

Liz

Yeah , family of origin . We were in some parenting books . We did a parenting class at our church . We're still trying to figure it out and then we landed on this and I wish that I had known about this earlier because it would have made things easier . But I just want to say to our audience like , don't feel pressure . You know , take this before the Lord , pray about it , do some more research , talk it over with your spouse . If you're a single parent , you know , find someone that you can discuss this with , and maybe another single mom and kind of . You know , talk it through . But we're just wanting to pass on some gold nuggets . We're wanting to pass on some pearls that we discovered in the midst of all the muck and the mire that has changed our family .

Ben

I mean literally changed our family Do you want me to tell them what it is ?

Liz

Yeah , go ahead , go ahead .

Ben

So the definition of first time obedience , as we understand it at least now there could be multiple is basically to train your child to obey you the first time an instruction is given . And you might think , oh , that sounds kind of prosaic , or you know outdated , or you know too authoritarian , or insert whatever you think about it and that might be right , like yeah , it might be a little old fashioned , but here's what it affords us . Let's go into the pros and cons and we'll let you decide , like is this right for you and your family or not ? We found that it was . It completely transformed our family and helped us live a lot less stressful life .

Liz

Much more peace . Much more peace . Like way like stress level Jump into the pros . Yeah , the stress level totally came down . So , yeah , peace , much more peace . Like way like stress level Jump into the pros .

Ben

Yeah , the stress level totally came down . So yeah , peace . Number one for us was establishing a culture of peace and safety through obedience . That sounds crazy , but if you give it a little time you might understand how that would work right . Think about our situation . We had roughly four children . I think it was four children , it might've been three . I mean , you're pregnant with the fourth .

Liz

Who knows ?

Ben

I don't remember exactly when we established this . I was always pregnant , but it was right around that time , right and so having children that are five and younger , and then all try to be on the same page and all try to obey one of us parents because , let's face it , you were home with the kids a lot .

Ben

Obey one of us parents because , let's face it , like you were home with the kids a lot , and then , when you weren't there , I was there with the kids , and so we were trying to like not feel overwhelmed and outnumbered .

Liz

Right .

Ben

With all these children running around and we're the ones responsible for them and they don't know safety .

Liz

They don't know these things that adults know Well and also , like you , don't want to have to keep repeating yourself . I think , yeah , you can kind of go crazy and then , before you know it , you're like you're hitting octaves that you don't want to hit . And I mean , I know you people out there watching this or listening to this definitely know what we're talking about , and so it's like we've got to change this , because I don't like who I am . I don't like who I'm becoming . What can ?

Ben

we do .

Liz

Nobody's listening to me , I didn't even want to listen to me . You know , and and and , truthfully , like I wanted to be able to go to a store , and we've told you before , in a previous episode , that we have a son that was diagnosed with autism , and so you know his processing . You know my eye has to be on him because he was a runner . He would run .

Liz

And as soon as we got out of the car I'd have to hold on to him . I mean , it was just . It was hard , hard season and we began to actually start praying and asking the . Lord to help us . Like how can we parent our kids ? And this fell into our lap . So the pros are . It gives you peace and safety . It gives it Because there's a clear expectation .

Ben

So that's another pro is a clear expectation . You're training your children to respond and be responsive , um , and then there's also consistency , right ? So like if I'm telling someone to do something and expecting that it to be done immediately , that's different than like when you're talking to a kid and you give them an instruction , they don't do it . You know , I'm counting to them an instruction they don't do it .

Liz

I'm counting the three , then no , how about 10 ? They still don't do it . How about the 10 ?

Ben

There's not this consistency where I say it it should be done . I'm not going to play a game where I'm going to try to incentivize you to obey me . It should be obeyed the first time I do it . And again , we're talking about small kids here .

Liz

Yeah , it's a little bit different . We want to set the expectation , yeah , yeah .

Ben

Yeah , this doesn't necessarily happen now that the kids are 15 . There's definitely more dialogue and there's more give and take , and sometimes it doesn't make sense for them to obey me the first time because I don't have all the details right . Right so they come back to me and say , dad , listen , I know you said this , but this is really what's happening . Oh okay , yeah , totally , you know I'm sorry , and it's relationship .

Liz

We'll get into teen years , and all that too at some point in time .

Ben

But but , really you know when it's a foundational and when it's with young kids , the expectation is that they obey immediately , because you're able to see things , you're able to be aware of things , that they're there , you know they're small enough to there . They don't have that , that history or to understand , or just the life experience . So three things we've talked about so far establishing a culture of peace and safety , clear expectations , consistency when directives are given , and then also this one's going to sound like the bad word , but learning about authority Ooh Ooh authority , ooh Ooh authority . Mufasa , shaking my boots .

Ben

Mufasa Say it again Mufasa Ooh Authority . Okay , that word gets misused and we understand it right , we do , and it's been abused . There's a lot of bad authority figures out there and it's unfortunate that we have that Unfortunate . However , if you try to run a family without any kind of authority , it's a madhouse guys .

Liz

It is a complete madhouse and you have a very stressed out parent , or parents , very stressed out Like we . We just know . Maybe you can do that with one .

Ben

You definitely can't do it with the six , and even and guys listen , sometimes we don't want to jump ahead to too much , but in our story we we have a story about a kid we think of as a family of just one , or maybe there was two , one on the way , but this kid was out of control and didn't understand authority . Anyways , we'll leave that , we'll get to it .

Liz

Yeah , we'll get to that . So some cons .

Ben

Let's throw in some cons . If it's done incorrectly this concept of first time obedience , if it's overblown or outdone , or if you only relate to your kid in first time obedience and they're 15 or even 18 . Yeah , something's going on , Something's wrong here .

Liz

Well , you haven't , you haven't gotten past like .

Ben

You haven't transitioned .

Liz

You haven't transitioned Like it's different when they're yeah , we'll get into that

Implementing First-Time Obedience Concept

Liz

.

Ben

So one con can be that it is perceived as like militaristic Right Like you . It's something you might see in an army , a chain of command where , where there's a clear authority and a clear structure and so families obviously can't be run like a military . We understand that we're not advocating for that , and so it can be perceived as militaristic and so you've got to work around that . So what's the number two , another con ? Yeah , what do you think ?

Liz

Oh , basically you're creating robots .

Ben

Yeah , if you never progress beyond the first time obedience , the first time directive , listening and responding and all that , and that's all your kid knows , right .

Liz

Yep .

Ben

And that's only how they relate to you is through obedience . Then you're essentially creating a little robot .

Liz

A robot and we are raising not human robots , we're raising human beings , so this is just to help them develop , so they're safe and they can actually get to develop . I mean , there's so many stories , yeah , and then go ahead .

Ben

Third , it can also be repressive , right ? So if you only relate to children in this first time obedience concept , the kid might not be able to express their true feelings or get to the bottom of things . And then fourth , real quick , is that it's too simplistic . I think it's . The idea behind all these cons is that if you just camp out on this first time obedience premise and you never go beyond that , then you're not truly developing the child .

Liz

So it looks like it's too simplistic .

Ben

Yeah , it can look like it's too simplistic . So what we propose is this concept of first time obedience be the foundational layer that your kid understands who you are as the authority in the family . They understand that their willpower doesn't supersede yours . Right , and that's healthy , because we feel that's a great way to learn about selfishness and it's also a great way to know that we're not the center of the universe . Too much I think this is just my opinion too much of how we parent today is coddling our kids and we want them to feel loved .

Ben

We want them to feel nurtured . I'm not saying that feel nurtured Absolutely . I'm not saying that that's wrong .

Liz

Absolutely .

Ben

But we also want them to understand that they aren't the driving force in the universe , that there are others besides them , and also that as they grow up and as they realize , like hey , in this dynamic of the family the parents are the primary lawgiver , if you will Right , right .

Ben

That's the authority structure and that's important to understand , because in society you want healthy individuals who obey laws and who submit to authority , and it's even biblical to submit to authority . You know there's verses in the epistles that talk about submitting to the authorities . It's a God-given authority and that it's our right or sorry , our responsibility to pray and to submit to those authorities . And so we want to make sure that we are raising healthy children , obviously , children who are creative and who are self-starters and are thinkers . Obviously children who are creative and who are self-starters and are thinkers , and we don't want to obviously just make them obedient .

Ben

No we want to start with obedience . There has to be a foundation before we can move on and realize what some of these other development issues are .

Liz

Right , and you know , I'm just thinking back to our experience with raising all these little ones and you ones , and just having that foundation it makes the kids feel safe , they know what's expected of them and they know how to act in situations and they learn that when I say something , I mean it .

Liz

When I say stop , there's a reason why I said stop . They don't get to turn around and debate as they're running into traffic , right , I say stop , they have to stop , yeah , and there are some things that I did , like when we were growing up . I mean , I think you kind of laid it out like what a first time obedience is , you know , and we want to say we're not psychologists , we're not psychiatrists , like you know . We're just a mom and a dad that happened to have a very large family , not as big as some of our friends have . Some of our friends have many more kids , you know . But we , you know , figured this piece out and we want to pass it on if it serves you , right , and so I'm thinking of some ways that I started out with . You know , when we got this concept , we learned about first time obedience , which basically is is when we say it the first time you do it .

Ben

Right , so so how do you ? So let's talk about implementing that .

Liz

Well , there's a song . What's the song ? I don't know it's like this slow oh BD and says no obedience , okay , so if you're slow to obey , is there a dance too ? I mean , I made that up like right here while I was sitting with you Slow obedience is no obedience .

Ben

Maybe we shouldn't dance .

Liz

Okay , maybe not Okay . So , especially for our friends that are not watching the podcast , maybe listening .

Ben

Yeah , what were they doing ?

Liz

Just delete that from your brain , All right . So that's true , though , Because if you're slow to obey and I see parents have friends and what's at stake- right , yeah .

Ben

I think we need to set the stage . So when you're small and you're slow to obey , so let's say like a toddler , maybe even three and four , yep , you could be running out .

Ben

In the street Right Like Zeke . You could be running out in the street right or about to touch something like a stove , or about to go down some some place that you're not supposed to or you know . Danger , I think is the context that I'm trying to set here is like when there's that slow obedience , then it could actually be harmful if the kid doesn't respond quickly .

Liz

Right ? Well , there's an example . So we have a friend who's in the medical field and we just went and saw him and he was telling us you know , we were telling him we're doing this podcast , our One Blessed Mess , and he goes I know what one episode is that you should speak about and I said , oh , really , what he says . How about first time obedience ? I thought , oh , it's so controversial , really . And he said , no , I'm going to tell you why . Because he was just on holiday with his family and with some of his brother and his wife , so brother and sister-in-law , and they had a great time .

Liz

They're finishing up and she went to give him a hug and when they hugged she had a wine glass in her hand and it dropped and it broke and glass went everywhere , all over the kitchen and the little boy who our friend told us he's like hey , he doesn't really listen . And obey , um , you know they , they they're literally screaming at the top of their lungs to get this kid to do anything . They're counting all this kind of stuff . And I thought , oh , I know I've witnessed that . And as this child was running in , she said stop and he just kept coming . She said stop and he just kept coming . He's barefoot , he's about to walk into the glass . He's like six , seven years old . And finally , our friend said that she had this mom had to hit decibels that were so high . She's like stop . I said stop , you're going to step in class .

Liz

And it just unnerved the whole family . Then the kid listened . Now there has to be somewhere along the way there has to be where you don't have to get to that . And I get it . I was there . You know I'm not saying , you know it's been all perfect , but I understand that because you know I want , when I say , stop my kids , stop Cause they know I , I , for some reason they trust me that I know what I'm talking about you know and listen because of training .

Ben

Yeah , it's cause of training . So why don't you talk about like um ?

Liz

how we did it . Yeah , like some of the ways that I did it .

Ben

Yeah , I remember you mentioning like the red light , green light , kind of thing , right . So , yeah , no , no , no , that's good .

Liz

So , you know , Ben was working when the kids were little , he was gone and so I was at home for many , many hours with these kids and we lived in a very cold state , that actually with snow , and so I'd be snowed in sometimes for days . So you know , you kind of need some help and we were praying about it . What should we do ? I didn't like you know all the yelling and the screaming to get kids to pay attention , especially with multiple kids . And finally we found this and I started thinking about ways that I can implement it . And so our son that we've told you about , who has the diagnosis , he was a runner and you know , he because of his processing being a little bit different and how he perceives things , obviously the way that I was doing with the other kids wasn't the same way that I could do it for him .

Liz

And so I'm thinking how can because he almost got hit a couple of times in the parking lot , I'm telling you I would have , you know , four kids get the baby out in its bucket seat , get the toddler in the seat , you know , locked in . I put one kid on , you know , holding on the car seat , I mean the cart , and then I'd have him and I'd have to get him last and hold his hand . But sometimes , you know , there's other things going on . He'd break and he'd just take off running Cars are backing in and out . I mean it was terrifying . And this is before you guys , they had like grocery pickup and now you can Instacart yeah , Instacart , and you can door dash , you know , milk to your door .

Liz

I didn't have that luxury right and I didn't have any family at the time living in the area where we were living , so it was very minimal help . It was on me to go get the milk and the cheese and the things that we would need . Anyway , because sometimes you run out of stuff life . So I thought about playing red light , green light . Any of you ever play red light , green light in elementary school ? I thought , okay , that would be great , and so I would go on walks with my kids and pushing the stroller and we would play red light , green light , and it was fun for my kids , but what it was doing was training them to listen to my voice . And so I say red light , and they all stop Green light . They all run Red light , stop Green light , run . It was also a great way to get out energy , but it was a fun way and it was training . That's really what it was . It was training to learn mom's voice . And so then I would start saying things like go , and they would run and say stop , because it wasn't just red light , green light , now it was I'm commanding you to stop , and they knew my voice . Then the other way that I really enjoyed doing this one this one was really fun is when they were all little .

Liz

We talked about being the army and you know what do you do in the army ? You're good soldiers and you listen to the commander . Okay , so this is . It was kind of like Simon says , but it would be like all right , everybody get ready . You're going to pick up 10 toys and put them in the bin , you know , because the rooms would be a wreck , or I'm like okay , now you're going to stand here , you're going to jump up and down , you know . So it was kind of like um Simon says , and then what it was is they were listening to me and they . It was a fun play to learn and we would have lots of conversations . You know where it'd be like . Okay , guys , remember , today we're going to practice first time obedience . When mom says , do it , you do it the first time . Do you do it the second time after I ask you no , you do it the first time , because slow obedience is no obedience . So when mommy says , go get your shoes on , you go get your shoes on .

Ben

Yep .

Liz

I don't have . I don't have the brain space . I don't have the wherewithal to have to keep coming back and say why don't you have your shoes on ? I've told you three times that is energy , that is exhausting and it's too much . So putting this first time obedience in place and there could be a lot more other fun ways to work with your kids , to train , but they're learning my voice and learning consistency in what I say . I mean it .

Ben

And we've seen times where it's not consistent and when you notice a parent that has to keep repeating themselves , and typically it's not like a good crescendo , right , like it's a repeating , and then it's a louder or more intense and then it's like even more and then it's like anger , and we don't want to be parents like that right .

Ben

We don't want to have to figure out ways to incentivize our kids to obey , we want it to be automatic and immediate , and if we start with that point right , it just brings so much more consistency and we don't have to worry about being stressed out and our emotions being spent . So that's the real benefit from this type of parenting style , or this exercise and obedience is that you get so much less stress .

Liz

Yeah . And we were able to take our children out to eat , even on our own . So like this was something really cool .

Ben

Right , this is super cool we would be able to take six kids to a restaurant by ourselves while they're young .

Liz

Yeah , you guys we're talking like six kids , eight and under , even after Ethan was born going out to dinner and the kids are sitting there happily . Now they're normal kids , they're spilling milk and there's all kinds of things happening .

Ben

But I mean we and we would do it by ourselves occasionally , because either you were working or I was working , and there were times where we needed to be out of the house and we had to take all of our kids . Or I was out of town and you had them all by yourself , yeah , and so that happened a lot as they were growing up and we were able to manage six children by ourselves and we would go in to stores , we would go out to eat .

Ben

Everybody would obey . If there was someone cutting up , we would just say hey , listen , don't do that . And they would obey .

Liz

Or we would say remember first time obedience . So I want you to put your chair down and stop rocking it , because I'm afraid you're going to rock out of your chair . I mean just simple little things , and we have more to share I know we're .

Ben

I'm wondering if we should wrap it up . Oh yeah , because we might have to do a part two . Yeah , let's do one story and then maybe okay we can break there um , and do you want to talk ?

Liz

about . I'm thinking

Training First-Time Obedience Successfully

Liz

of one . So when the kids were little we would go to um a and then after church we would frequent this restaurant often because it was like a brunch lunch kind of place a popular place that we love , and mainly we went there because the food would come out so fast and while you're waiting they have free coffee .

Liz

So we would strap the kids in . They'd be watching a movie and we'd park right in front waiting for our name to be called and I go get a cup of coffee for him , a cup of coffee for myself , and we kind of have like a mini date before we actually go in and have our lunch for Sunday and we would come in . I mean , you know we went there for four or five , maybe even longer , six years , I don't know consistently . So so this the wait staff watched us raise our kids , watched me be pregnant , watched me come in with more kids .

Liz

I mean it was like they were all part of the story of our clan growing right Our tribe and the kids . We would train them at home so that when we came out in public it wasn't like a fiasco .

Ben

So that's important , right yeah , is making sure that you don't try to train when you're actually out .

Ben

Yeah , you know like you want a consistent place to do this type of training and maybe we can go into just a little bit of like the actual training and maybe we can pause after that . So what she's talking about is like when we were out , we developed this habit at home and so we would practice , we'd be at home , we would do the red light , green light thing . But sometimes we would notice , especially with the younger kids , that there was a time where they would make a choice and it was like the light bulb inside their brain went off and it was like oh , I have a will , my parents have a will , this is a perfect time for me to exert mine against theirs . Right , and it happened like that for at least the last three . I don't remember so much the older ones because we had older kids when we implemented this . Yeah , not super old , but you know .

Liz

Older , older yeah .

Ben

But the younger , the last three in particular , when they were younger we would see this little light bulb turn on and it was like oh .

Liz

Yep , little light bulb turn on and it was like oh , I can now disobey my parent and I'm going to try Exerting the will . They found their will , which is great . We want them to find their will . This is part of developing , but at the same time you're going to have to learn , you also have to learn how to submit that will .

Ben

Yes , we're going to have to learn about that , that's crucial to becoming an adult and being a well-adjusted individual in our society .

Liz

Human being yeah .

Ben

Is to learn how to submit . I mean I hate to say that word because it sounds so gross to submit . But you know what ? It's true , we all do it , we do it with one another , we do it to authority structures and anyways , it was important to see that that little light bulb moment was a invitation into the hardest part of this training . So that's what I want to talk about is one of our daughters . We saw that light bulb moment go off and she had a dirty diaper . I think you had just told her to go put it in the trash , or I had just told her .

Ben

And we were both upstairs at the moment I think I was taking a break from work , because I normally would work downstairs and so we said Bria , go , take this diaper to the trash can . And so she looked at us and it was like no , no . I'm not taking it , and so we knew right then and there .

Liz

I'm like , oh , here it comes , here's the moment . Here's the moment .

Ben

Here's the moment . This is where the rubber meets the road . This is where the training happens , yep , and so I sat there . One important thing to note is typically there's one parent who is better at like this type of moment where you know there's going to be a battle of the wills , and so typically it's the parent who's got the most discipline .

Liz

It's not me .

Ben

That's what we're saying , and neither of us have high discipline , but apparently I have more discipline than Liz . Yeah , so I get to be that parent , but you have to be cool , calm and collective .

Liz

Right .

Ben

And you have to basically sit there like a broken record and tell the child again and again , and again what you want them to do , and you don't move from that spot until they do it .

Liz

Right .

Ben

And it's like a battle of the wills , and this was the most effective way for us to train the first time obedience .

Liz

Yeah , and it's about 18 , 20 months , yeah , so anyway , she said no . And then both of us are like , oh , this is that moment . And so Ben faithful Ben sat there on the floor next to the trash can and worked with her . I told her what was going to happen .

Ben

I was like you are going to put this diaper in the trash . I'm going to sit here until you do .

Liz

And just as cool as I'm talking to you right now .

Ben

Oh , totally cool as a cucumber , like right now , you know it was like we took all the emotion out of it and it was just like this is what's going to happen . I'm going to wait here until you do . And so she started getting frustrated and she threw her diaper at me . And if there's things that she does or the child does that are something you need to correct and you actually need to do some disciplinary action , then that's fine too . You can do that and then come back to the directive . And so there are a few things where you know we needed to pause and come back to the directive , but we never left that space of just trying to implement this , this directive . And so I sat there and you know she would get upset and mad and I just said Nope , we're going to . You know , we're going to . I'm going to be here until you put this in the trash .

Liz

You kept handing it back to her and she'd put it down .

Ben

Yeah , she'd throw it away or do whatever she kept putting it down . Bring it back . Here's your diaper . I mean that poor diaper , poor diaper .

Liz

It's amazing , it stayed together yeah .

Ben

But we sat there for about 45 minutes , yeah , it was 45 minutes .

Liz

You guys Like he's not exaggerating , it was very long . I mean we were continuing on with the family activities . Yeah , and she . But what happened ?

Ben

So at some point she got her hand close enough to the trash , and whether she dropped it in by accident or did it on her own , we're not quite sure . But as soon as she obeyed , or at least had the outward expression of obeying , we praised her .

Liz

Yeah , we gave her a treat .

Ben

We were super excited .

Liz

We told her how proud we were yeah , we were like jumping for joy excited . We told her how proud we were . You're clapping yeah , we were like jumping for joy . It was so sweet . And from then , on .

Ben

We never had an issue with our daughter . That is the craziest thing .

Liz

And she is vibrant and expressive , extremely creative , very creative . This young lady is so wow , just such a treat . But that was the moment and it was before two .

Liz

You know it wasn't the terrible twos and actually she didn't really have terrible twos at all Like not at all , you know , and and even at three , you know cause three was especially three-year-old little girls can be intense Three nature . That's a very intense time . She didn't even have that Like she just for whatever reason , the diaper and you know , and it was something different for other . You know two boys but yeah , it's true and you know , because that happened what I was saying before , like we would go out to eat on Sundays and because our kids we created a culture of first time obedience and were they perfect all the time ? No . Were we perfect all the time ?

Ben

No no , but we always got back to that but we got back to it .

Liz

We would come back and be like okay , guys , let's talk about it again . You know we got to . What do we do ? And we kept it lighthearted and fun . So much so , you guys , that when we would take all of our kids in as we're a growing family to this particular restaurant , we had servers begging to take our table . And you know , it was not just because we were regulars , but because our kids were well behaved and they would come and ask us what do you do ? And they would tell stories about other tables . Or we'd be there and there'd be other tables , kids throwing food on the floor , throwing themselves on the floor like scream . I mean , you guys know what I'm talking about . I'm not trying to paint , you know , a picture that you're not aware of . And really , like , our kids just didn't do that because we had worked with them so much . They just knew how to behave . And also , when we said , don't act like that , they knew what to do .

Ben

Well , we even had other families that would come up or other couples . It was mostly other couples that would come up and be like I just want to let you know your kids are so well behaved , or your kids are the most well behaved we've seen in the restaurant . And it was kind of shocking to us because they're like we didn't really think they were that great today .

Ben

But we had such a baseline for obedience that if there was anything that was out of whack , if they were like doing cutting up like kids , do I mean they're going to mess up , they're going to be kids , they're going to rub up against your will and it's just going to happen . But we would be very quick to be like all right , hey , stop that . We want to make sure that we're you know , we're acting correctly in a restaurant and they would obey . It was like it was like magic .

Ben

It was like you would just tell them and they would do it . You didn't have to raise your voice , you didn't have to threaten anything , right ?

Liz

And we've got some more stories . But even last night the kids went to a game game uh , board game night with a bunch of other families . They had a blast , and we show up and and uh , towards the end of the night we're like , hey guys , it's time to go and I witnessed another family where the the mom and dad were like , hey , we need to go , and there was like , not the leaving , not right you know , and you know and I didn't even think about this until today that we're doing this , but because we instilled it .

Liz

You know , before , when we said last night , hey , it's time to go Like , our kids were like all right , they put everything down , happy hearts . It still pays dividends . Decades later , it's paying dividends . Yeah , that's a good point .

Ben

And maybe that's a good place to pause for here , but let's just read a few verses . And maybe that's a good place to pause for here , but let's just read a few verses . And specifically in Colossians 3.20 , we have children obey your parents and everything for this pleases the Lord . In Ephesians 6.1 , children obey your parents and the Lord for this is right . And then Proverbs 6.20 , my son , obey your father's commands and do not neglect your mother's instruction . Guys , obedience is biblical .

Ben

There's no other way to cut it . It can feel outdated , it can feel antiquated , but when we operate in rebellion and that's the norm instead of obedience , that's actually satanic . I hate to be so black and white about it , but obedience is the foundation that we're trying to set with our kids . We don't want robots . We don't want them to just obey every single thing that we're trying to set with our kids . We don't want robots . We don't want them to just obey every single thing that we're doing , especially as they're teenagers .

Ben

But what we do is we set a baseline , we set a foundation , and as they grow and mature and our relationship dynamics changes , then that relationship blossoms the right way , not the wrong way , not in rebellion

Blessed Mess Embrace and Encourage

Ben

. And so we want to talk to you more about it and , uh , we're going to take a pause here and again , it was very messy doing doing this kind of uh training and God blessed it and you know it just goes right along with our theme . You know we we are blessed in our mess and , uh , we're happy to pick it up again and uh talk more about it next time .

Liz

Well , and so we just want to say thank you for being a part of our one blessed mess today . Don't forget to like , share , comment , subscribe , pass this on to somebody that you think would enjoy or it would bless them . An encouragement , because everybody needs some encouragement . I know I needed encouragement along the way . Also to follow us on Instagram . Our handle is our one numeric one , just like the sign blessed mess . And until next time , just embrace your beautiful mess , because what we always say is if our mess can be blessed then so can yours , so can yours .

Liz

Have a great night .