So Your Boss Sucks, Now What?
Bad bosses happen to good people. Join entrepreneur, corporate trailblazer-turned-business strategist, and podcast host Natalie Parker as she unpacks real-life stories of tough leaders and toxic work environments. With Natalie’s expertise in navigating corporate chaos and building strategies for success, this podcast offers practical advice and actionable insights to help you turn workplace challenges into opportunities for growth. Whether you’re dealing with micromanagers, toxic cultures, or just plain bad vibes, this is your go-to guide for taking control, thriving, and proving that when your boss sucks, your success doesn’t have to.
So Your Boss Sucks, Now What?
S3 E1 When the Band Room Becomes a Battlefield: Laura Butler's Remarkable Career Pivot
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Laura Butler's remarkable journey from band room to boardroom reveals how resilience and adaptability can transform career obstacles into opportunities for growth. Beginning with an unwavering passion for music education, Laura found her calling in high school classrooms where she created transformative experiences for students through band programs that functioned like families.
Behind the scenes, Laura navigated a gauntlet of challenges that many educators face: combative administrators who slashed budgets for essential program elements, parents threatening violence over discipline issues, and even dangerous situations involving weapons and drugs on campus. These experiences cultivated a resilience that would serve her throughout her career journey. "Teachers have PTSD too," she remarks, highlighting the often-overlooked stresses educators endure.
When her path as a music teacher was interrupted by her husband's military career and the impossible task of maintaining teaching credentials across state lines, Laura faced what she calls "an existential crisis." Rather than surrendering to circumstances, she discovered an unexpected opportunity working with transitioning military personnel. This pivot allowed her to apply her educator's heart in new ways – helping veterans translate their military experience into civilian success.
Through roles with government contractors, nonprofits, and major consulting firms, Laura has built programs that bridge the cultural and professional gaps between military and civilian worlds. Her work has contributed to dramatically reducing unemployment rates among veterans by addressing both practical skills and the subtle cultural adjustments necessary for their success in new environments.
Laura's story demonstrates how the skills developed in one career – teaching, mentoring, curriculum design, and navigating complex organizational politics – can become the foundation for success in entirely different sectors. For anyone feeling trapped in their current role or facing seemingly insurmountable career obstacles, her journey offers both inspiration and practical wisdom about finding new paths to purpose.
Have you faced unexpected career transitions? How might your current challenges be preparing you for future opportunities? Join the conversation and share your story of career resilience and reinvention.
This episode is brought to you by Natalie Parker Enterprises. Interested in becoming a sponsor? Connect with us at info@thenatalieparker.com
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Recognize the pattern. Protect your peace. Plan your next move.
And remember: don’t let your boss suck the life out of you.
Laura's Educational Background and Passion
Speaker 1The parent bought a gun to school ? For what purpose ?
Speaker 2Um he was having . I even had a student selling drugs out of the band room . He was not one of my kids , he was in an orchestra , not an orchestra kid selling the drugs . It was an orchestra kid selling the drugs .
Speaker 1What do you get when a music teacher becomes a military career strategist , a curriculum designer and a change agent ? You get Laura Butler . Laura started her journey in the classroom , pouring into kids with a passion for music and education , but over time her calling expanded to military families , veterans and professionals in transition . She's led national programs that help service members and spouses translate their skills , find their voice and thrive in civilian life . From nonprofits to the big four consulting firms , laura's crafted learning experiences that don't just teach , they transform . Whether she's designing onboarding for veterans , coaching kids after school or building bridges between military and corporate cultures , laura leads with empathy , strategy and a teacher's heart . On this episode of so your Boss Sucks , now what ? We'll follow her journey as she's redefined leadership one learning . Welcome to the show .
Speaker 2Hi Natalie , Glad to be here .
Speaker 1I'm so excited about our conversation . So the first , the first question is we're talking about educators this season . Tell me why you got like , why you got into education .
Speaker 2So I honestly always thought I was going to be a teacher . From the time I was , kindergarten age , even even up until now , teaching always spoke to me . Being that guide , being that mentor . It was something that I always loved . If I was an expert at something , I wanted to share it with the world . So that's why I've always , always wanted to be a teacher and become an educator .
Speaker 1It's funny . From what I've gathered from all the educators that I've talked to , it's something they're very , very sure about . I've talked to people who are in other professions . Like I kind of stumbled into it . Most educators are like nope , I knew from day whatever that I was going to teach people how to do the things . Does that about track with you ?
Speaker 2Yeah , it's a calling . To a certain extent . You either love it or you don't . And the prep that just needs to go into it , even to become a teacher especially when we're talking about public school , it's substantial Like hell . I could go be a doctor . Instead I was a teacher . That's how much school I got .
Speaker 1So you love teaching from the gate . You are actually a music teacher . Tell us more about teaching kids music .
Speaker 2That was a true passion . Also , a lot of extra hours compared to what some other teachers do Say more .
Speaker 1You sound shady about that , Laura . What ?
Speaker 2some other teachers do Say more . You sound shady about that , laura . Well , I focused on secondary school . Mind you , when I was teaching at a high school , I also had an elementary music program I was working on with one of our local schools . I was helping out the jazz band at the middle school , but it was also a marching band based program at the high school . So when you're in marching season , it's not just here's your zero . Through seventh period it was . You've got football games , you have field shows , you have practices , you have sectional rehearsals . It's a lot . And to top that off , you're having to make sure the music , the drill , everything is lining up and you have to change things as you go , based off of how the kids are doing in competitions so , for those people who don't know what sectionals are , um , they are when you teach the different sections of the band or the chorus , their parts , before bringing everybody together .
Speaker 1I have , yes , I lived this life in high school before there was Glee . So for everybody who remembers the movie , the show , right , I was a part of a um , oh God , what did we call it ? It was a , it was a chorus . It was a traveling show . Chorus is a show choir . That's what it was , show choir , and we did magicals and we did all of the things we did . There's no business like shit . We did all of the things all throughout high school and it was . It was both a class during school , but then there was rehearsal almost every night and it was a lot .
Speaker 1I remember my mom's complaining like I am not a taxi , and but those were such formative years in my high school days because I am still in contact with my high school music teacher shout out to Charles Reed , who's now in Florida . I'm also still in contact , at least I think through some social media , with my middle school music teacher , uh , chris Jones , and there was also , uh , lois Stick , but I haven't been able to find her , but music for me has been just such a big , big passion , and you've not understated it . For people who are either band geeks or choir nerds or whatever you want to call them , it's a lot . It's a lot of work , it's a lot of energy , but it's also a lot of formative years from a development perspective .
Speaker 2Yeah , same with me in high school as well . That's when I really knew I wanted to be a band director , specifically as a teacher . It was my involvement in high school music all the way through , with orchestra , with marching band , concert band that's really what I took away from high school . It was the relationships that happen naturally when you're traveling around and you're spending so much time with all these other people . It felt like a family more than anything and I just I absolutely loved it .
Speaker 2I loved seeing that feeling when we're doing well on field shows and we're working as a team to complete a goal . And then , you know , when I became a teacher and moving on and helping out , I was our brass specialist . Actually , when I moved over onto the teaching staff , just seeing the kids' faces light up as they get better and better , and then they even see how they do as a group . It's , it's such a beautiful thing and then just being there as a guide for them it's not all even just about music when you're in the rooms with them . They have , they've got problems , they've got decisions to make about the whole rest of their life and you're there for them and it's I love , I love . High school is my absolute favorite group . It's like I've done elementary , done middle school , did high school , high school kids absolute favorite .
Speaker 1You're a special kind of person to like high school kids , because I don't think I liked high school kids when I was in high school , but I get you .
Speaker 2No truth .
Speaker 1So you find this love , you find this passion . Talk to us about your first , your very first bad boss
First Experience with a Bad Boss in Banking
Speaker 1.
Speaker 2Oh , I had a few in there . I the one that stands out to me most . Um , it's actually when I worked in in banking . Um , which is kind is a whole other story , but you know , it was one of those things where you just feel like you're great at the job . Everybody loves you where you're working , except your boss . So when things go wrong , it's your fault . If something doesn't get done , whether they asked you to do it or not , it's your fault . If something doesn't get done , whether they asked you to do it or not , it's your fault . If you got a memo and you changed a procedure , but you didn't change it quite the way they wanted it , and then they decided to change it back without telling you , it's your fault .
Speaker 1So it's like but didn't they hire you ? Were they the person that hired you ?
Speaker 2No , that may have been the problem too . I was hired by a different manager and had no issues with her . She loved me , thought I was going to be a great fit , and then she left and I was blessed with someone new and I definitely was not part of her clique . So I you know , I just wanted to come in and do my thing . I am great with operations , I'm great with rules , I'm great at training other people , which was part of my job . And I don't know , she just saw me and instant dislike , so not sure what the deal was with that but she sure made it known she did not like me .
Speaker 2So how did you know she didn't like you , laura ? Well , it was actually funny . The other supervisors even that I worked with they're like , so anytime you're not around , she actually tells everybody how much she dislikes you and that you're trying to take her job .
Speaker 1I'm like she was . She was threatened by you that's my assumption .
Speaker 2She told a couple of employees that other people she's like Laura doesn't talk about her personal life . Laura is kind of weird , I don't know what , like Laura doesn't talk to me and it's like we're not friends . I'm here to do a job which is fine . I'm more than friendly . Everybody that has worked with me that's the one thing they call out I'm friendly . I'm a networker , but it was . It was this strange juxtaposition of she was threatened but then she kind of wanted to talk to me , but then she didn't , but then she didn't like me , so she would just complain about me whenever I wasn't around , which , you know , that's great for anybody else we work with , that I'm the manager , I'm basically the leader on duty , and she's been talking about me with everybody . So that's not a really great way to build up morale amongst the team and it undermines what I'm doing too . So it was so awkward so .
Speaker 1I'm curious about your peers right , Because they would come back and tell you that she was talking about you .
Speaker 2Yeah , a couple of them I was more friendly with than others and they'd just be like hey , girl , like I gotta tell you this because it's not cool and I walked away from it while this is what's going on .
Speaker 1That's , that's noble right . At least them not participate in the commiseration of your downfall , right , um ? And at the same time , I think this , you know , shout out to anybody who's willing to take a leader on who's talking about another person , to at least call out and say , hey , this is inappropriate , or I'm not comfortable with this conversation , because it's because , if she's talking about you , what makes them think that they're not , that they're not a subject of her conversation as well ?
Speaker 2Exactly . It just turns into unnecessary drama and especially when you're dealing with something like people's money , it's like let's keep it business y'all seriously . This is important . This is high risk . We don't need all this noise going on in the background .
Speaker 1So tell me about more like what are some of the other kind of what we would call microaggressions , like small , small passive , aggressive things that you've seen or that you experienced with this leader and when did you know it was like time to like let me just pull the ripcord and get out of here .
Speaker 2It , it . It actually escalated . It escalated while it was there . Honestly , it turned into the hey , you didn't do this right kind of stuff every day . It was that little bit of micromanaging , little bit of nitpicking going on .
Speaker 2And then I trained somebody in a standard procedure . We used to make updates pretty often . We were kind of a test bed for new policies where we were , so I would train everybody . She'd come up behind me . That's not right . And it literally got to the point I had to pull out the memos and hand it to her and then walk away . And then she said , well , I don't want you to do it that way . And I said , well , the company does . So it even turned into she couldn't even say sorry , couldn't even say , oh , you know what , I must have missed that . You're absolutely right , we can talk about it later , kind of thing . It was just well , I don't want that . No , no , nothing , no , humility , nothing , and it's just eye rolling at that point . Humility , nothing , and it's just eye rolling at that point .
Speaker 2And then , if anything happens , you know , somebody was out of balance , somebody had a question about anything . If I wasn't there immediately handling it , where were you ? Well , helping this person ? Over here or on a break or doing the 15,000 other things you assigned to me . I couldn't get time off anymore . It got to that point . What do you mean ? You couldn't get time off . I would try to take days off and she would give it to somebody else and not me if somebody else requested it . Even if I put it in enough time , they weren't adhering to my schedule anymore .
Speaker 2It started turning very much like hey , maybe I could just push you out the door and I can promote somebody else I'm friends with . So it was just it was . It was very much about like personal relationships back there and it . It shouldn't have been like that . And it's funny you mentioned like when do you know that you wanted to leave . I actually did not leave the company . What I ended up doing is moving cross country and I took my job with me . I was able to transfer , got to a new branch , new leadership that I adored . Actually , I still chat with one of those managers periodically . I love her dearly . And that kind of bad behavior even followed me 2,700 miles away . What do ?
Speaker 1you mean .
Speaker 2And well , so my old branch got in trouble for an NSF check , basically .
Speaker 1Insufficient funds .
Speaker 2Yes , came back from a business . It was something that I had looked at , talked to somebody on the phone . They told me to put it through . I did my due diligence on it when it went through because I used to approve transactions and it came back to approve transactions and it came back and , for whatever reason or another , they're saying , okay , well , the branch is going to have to , it's going to show up on your report that this happened . They tried to transfer it to my new branch that I started with . They had nothing to do with it , nothing going on with it . It wasn't even anything that was my fault . I followed procedure and they were still even trying to transfer that negative that was showing up on the report over to me and my new branch that's some kind of special .
Speaker 2Yeah , and my new manager being the fierce woman she was said absolutely not down , laid down . The law branch manager backed her up and they backed off and I never heard from them again so .
Speaker 1So let me just get the chronology of behavior straight , to make sure I understood what I heard . First she was trying to poison the well against you and your peers , then there was the microaggressions , then turned to micromanagement , then just straight mean girl right straight mean girl to trying to scapegoat you after you had left yes so it's an interesting standard progression of that behavior , right ? I would also say that if you've ever left a job where your leader didn't like you , nine times out of 10 , they're going to blame you for something .
Speaker 2Oh , absolutely .
Speaker 1Oh , that was the other people , that was her . Oh , yeah , so I know , a lot of times people have not left jobs because they're like , well , if I leave , I know they're going to blame this on me . Leave , leave , leave , leave , leave anyways .
Speaker 2Yeah , they're going to blame it on you regardless .
Speaker 1So so you , you went to this branch and you know you had been in education before you went to the banking space , so did you go .
Speaker 2What happened ? It was an odd circumstance . So I was teaching while I was still in college , finishing off my bachelor's degree , working on my teaching credential when I was in graduate school . So I was part time for most of that , although part time being a band director , we know , is not a normal day it's still 12 , 15 , 18 hours in some cases . It's still 12 , 15 , 18 hours in some cases . But when I got my teaching credential , I was close to getting it .
Speaker 2By this point
Administrative Challenges in Music Education
Speaker 2I'd actually moved to a new city . I was starting to apply for teaching jobs in LA County actually , and I was interviewing . I was getting a lot of headway . I even got hired by a middle school and I was super excited to start . I was working this other retail job just to make ends meet . We all have bills . So I figured this is great , I'm going to end up starting at this new middle school . And during the summer they said oops , sorry , we're actually going to have to let you go already . We lost our funding . So you know , here I am with this other retail job .
Speaker 2I had a significant other that worked in banking and he had worked in banking when he was in school too and he's like this is great , they work with your schedule , it pays better than what you're doing and you'd be great at it . Go into banking . He's like you're a rule person , you're an operations person , you got this . So that's actually what brought me over into banking for a few years is I was kind of that waiting period of just trying to get my own band program , something that was mine and would get my teaching credential cleared . Because everybody starts on that preliminary teaching credential , because everybody starts on that preliminary teaching credential , you have to come in full time , you have to have your own program , otherwise it's never going to get cleared .
Speaker 2So that was my big focus Paying my bills while I tried to get my foot in the door and get hired on somewhere . It was not a good time . We were getting into that . 2006 , 2007 , 2008 , especially at 07-08 , when the market crashed out , is when I was trying to break into teaching and I was not a core curriculum teacher . So when we start to talk about what are they going to cut oh , it's me to cut , oh , it's me , it's me . So that's when I ended up working working in banking and then said I even made a cross country trip to get a little change scenery and change some stuff up in my life and even applied for teaching jobs out of state too .
Speaker 1But you did have an opportunity , though , to go back into teaching , and at some point you almost had your own . What happened there , like what happened when you had the opportunity to have your own or at least you could see the end of the tunnel to getting your own , your own band .
Speaker 2End of the tunnel . Initially , the school I had been working at for years , I do . The band director was like you know , this would be great , you've been here , I'm going to retire . I want you to take the program over . Um , ideal , the band director was like you know , this would be great , you've been here , I'm gonna retire . I , I want you to take the program over from me . It's just , it was just gonna be you finish off the credential graduates , whatever , like , whatever you need to do to teach in california . He's like great , get it done and I'm gonna retire and you can have the program . Well , he didn't . He didn't retire , for it was at least another 10 years .
Speaker 1Um , you said it . You said a decade . Yes , ma'am .
Speaker 2It was 10 years , so I don't think that's what he intended , but that's what happened . I checked in with him every year for four years to see hey , like , are you tired , can I come back , can I take over the program , can I apply ? Never happened . So that's when I started applying to other schools For secondary school . Middle school is usually the good point to try to get in if you don't have an in . So that's what I was trying , but it was at that point . It was so hard to break into anything and if you got hired you didn't stay hired .
Speaker 1So did you say anything to him about ? You know his you can't even call it gatekeeping Like he , he was the , he was like he was taking up the seat . I'm sure he was doing a fabulous job . But did you say like , hey man , like I'm lingering here and you're , you're not moving .
Speaker 2It was just kind of simple . I'm so sorry I can't do it yet . I'm not in a place I could do it . I need to go another year or two , Like I'll keep in touch with you . So it was . It was kind of those simple pieces . I think it was his own financial situation , basically , and he wasn't ready . I honestly think he just wasn't ready to leave . He always talked about I'm tired and I think I need to stop , and he was talking about moving himself . And he was talking about moving himself and it just he just kept going and going and going until finally , finally he retired .
Speaker 1What would you say to the people who are in those positions ? Because it's very interesting . It's not like corporate situations where you may be able to move to a different place . Like this is the job . It's the only job in the system , right ? Especially if you're in a school system that only has one high school or hasn't just a few . Like you , don't have many options . What would you say to people who've been in that position ? How do you not get got ?
Speaker 2It's so complicated dealing with something like that because , even like most jobs out there , the hidden job market , networking that's always going to be king . If you've got your sights set on particular districts , it's just that it's so limited to who they can bring in and how and why . They're always going to bring in people they know . So ingratiating yourself is great , but that's not always going to bring in people they know . So ingratiating yourself is great , but that's not always going to get you everywhere .
Speaker 2We had four high schools in our district . We had about a dozen middle schools and how many teachers did we have out there that were trying to break in ? So this is the most difficult thing , especially for specialty teachers . So you know , this is the most difficult thing , especially for specialty teachers getting their foot in the door . You really have to think outside the box . A if you're going to do it in public or private school , at that point , just to start getting your hours in If you're credentialed it has to be public school you may have to jump ship and move , basically to be able to get in somewhere . I've had friends of mine that have literally had to move to another state . They finished everything off . They couldn't get full-time roles . They kept getting brought in as long-term subs , which is another fabulous tactic of some of the districts .
Speaker 1Why is ?
Speaker 2that they don't have to pay you as much . You're getting your hourly and no benefits at that point for long-term sub . So and then you turn around . It's like am I coming back next year , but for a California teaching credential ? That doesn't count toward your time . You only have five years to get that credential cleared , jumping in and have something full time ready to go . You don't have your mentor teacher , you're not doing your extra 30 units of college credits you need in that two years . It's never going to get cleared and they're not going to extend it . So that was the conundrum that a lot of us were in , especially at that point .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2So , yeah , I can't even tell you how many friends of mine I'm like if you really want to do this , if this is your lifeblood and your passion and you know it is hard , hard work , getting through all that to be able to teach in the California school system but you may not be able to stay in California . You may have to move down to San Diego , you may have to move up to the Bay Area , you may have to go somewhere else . A lot of friends of mine ended up in North Carolina , Texas , Florida , Minnesota , taking on teaching jobs so they could stay teachers .
Speaker 1It seems such an odd situation , considering there's a lack of teachers in the pipeline and it gets worse year over year . It does , and the the financial situation for educators is also not attractive . It just seems strange to hear that , like you had people who want to do the job and there weren't places for them to go . It just seems very odd . Talk to me about um . We've been talking about the trifecta of bosses that teachers have , this idea of the administration , you know the federal government , right , the federal and state government , the local administration and the parents . And if you want to , you know , make it a quadruplet , you can call the kids a part of the bad boss group . Talk to me about your , your engagement or your experience with , with local administration and how it affected your ability to , or your experience in , teaching .
Speaker 2Yeah , and honestly , the kids were the best part of the whole equation . Hands down , our local administration . We had a really supportive principal for a while . When you're talking about a music program , it's very expensive to run them , especially when you're considering there's buses involved , uniforms involved , instrument repairs just all the little things that you need to be able to keep a program going . To keep a program going At the time we needed nearly 60 grand actually to keep the program afloat and we were only receiving $12,000 a year from the actual school system . So a lot of fundraising in there , a lot of everything , a lot of begging for administrators . I'm going to say this out loud .
Speaker 1For those of you who always wonder why the kids are asking you for money at school , this is the reason Help little Bobby , help little Daquan get his trumpet or keep the things that they need . We used to sell poinsettias . We would sing at Christmas time and sell poinsettias for like 30 bucks a poinsettia , and we would give a carol and we would deliver them . It was a beautiful experience . A carol and they would , we would deliver them . It was a beautiful experience and we had to do a lot of fundraising to even be able to go to the competitions to get the notoriety to help the cop . The school it's , it's a circle . So y'all , oh yeah , support the arts at your school , support the pta , help them raise money , because nobody has money for real donate money buy those candy bars , get those car washes .
Speaker 2I I think
Difficult Parent Interactions and School Safety
Speaker 2I was doing the boosters myself , the band director . It was at least 12 different fundraisers every year , even at our concerts .
Speaker 1So we're close to Nations Ford High School , which actually over the last I think it might have been seven or eight years they performed in the Macy's parade . They're very well known , the competitive . Every year they sell mattresses , which I think is the weirdest thing , but it is really . This is strange , but they make a ton of money anyway .
Speaker 2That's neither here I've never heard of that . That's hey , if it works , it works . Um , so I mean I I say all that to to kind of segue into some of the administrative issues said we had one great principal you're talking about all the stuff with funding we had one great guy that at least we didn't have to pay for buses anywhere . He made sure we were part of the athletics budget . The athletics department totally agreed with it . They're like yes , we need the band at football games . So it wasn't even a question , it was something that had always been . And then we got a new principal and basically just try blowing up the budget and it's like , oh , you can't use that anymore . If the band wants to play at the football games , it's coming out of your budget . If the band wants to play at the football games , it's coming out of your budget .
Speaker 2So I was really thankful and that my band director , as a mentor , as the head of the program , it didn't fly with him . He would really put a hard line out there . Um , when we were getting administrative pushback and he said fine , we don't go to football games , end of story , we're not doing parades anymore , we're not , we're not going football games . He's like we're gonna go to football games , end of story . We're not doing parades anymore , we're not going to football games . He's like we're going to go to field shows , we're going to do stuff for us and we're not doing stuff for the school or district anymore . And he said , boom , mic drop . And they came around pretty quickly after that and said , okay , you can stay on the athletics budget , because then they had the entire athletics department breathing down administration's neck going . We need the band there . What are we going to be the only high school in Southern California that doesn't have a band at these football games ? How bad does that look ? And we get the crowd going . Come on , it's band and football game . That's a given .
Speaker 1That's American .
Speaker 2Exactly so . It was little things like that 's , that's a given , that's that's america . Yeah , exactly so , you know it was . It was little things like that . Then they tried to find other ways to nickel and dime . I was going up and going up to the office . You have those great big xerox copier machines that are still in all the schools . We got to copy music for the kids .
Speaker 1I have a little code that I can put in to copy some music but , by the way , I always thought it was funny how we copy music at school and it's like total copyright infringement . Oh yeah , totally . I still have copies of sheet music in this house from high school and college . You have to and Hal Johnson knows y'all stole his music right like no , you have to .
Speaker 2The kids lose all the originals and you're not paying three dollars a copy for oh , no , no , no , no , that's funny . Yeah , so I . It got to the point . I was going up there , principals looking at me like we do in the copy room again , and they actually turned down my like on my code . They were only letting me do 150 copies a month Up there in the office . Somebody like changed something . How many ?
Speaker 1pieces were in the van .
Speaker 2One year we had 185 .
Speaker 1185 pieces in the van .
Speaker 2Yeah , we had 185 kiddos in our marching band and I was only able to do 150 copies a month . So how many ?
Speaker 1I'm just going to do the math , the routine . How many songs would you have in a routine ? Let's see for any given given field show four or five . So five times 180 , and that's not including , like , the backup song . So let's just say you did try seven , you took seven songs even though you only did five , right but this is just field show .
Speaker 2This isn't even our football games , anything else , just the field show , like four to five songs , depending on what year it was so you needed 1295 copies , and they let you have 10 of that yep , good job , I was great . All the other teachers were sharing their codes with me because they weren't using the copier I'm here for it .
Speaker 1I am here for you being being creative and getting your um , getting what you needed for your kids , and many teachers do the same . Did you ever confront the administration or did your your former band director ? Is this the blocker guy that didn't move ? Well , at least he was . He was helpful . That's good . We like him .
Speaker 2He was , he was , he was a good dude . He was , he was a great mentor , great band director .
Speaker 1He had some .
Speaker 2he had some stuff where he didn't leave . But I learned a lot being there too that I took with me and all throughout my career , so I can say that but did he ever go toe to toe with them ?
Speaker 1Like , listen , we're not doing this .
Speaker 2He did on the copier piece and then she basically just standardized it across all the departments so it didn't look like she was just picking on us . But then she also said stop sharing your codes with the band he . He said there's certain battles , it's just not worth it . So we just ended up buying a laser copier and popped it in the band room and told nobody and basically if you weren't performing arts , you weren't allowed to use it .
Speaker 1What's so fascinating about this conversation is when you look at the line items in a budget because I've done this in other organizations and if you're looking at the copy machine as the source of where you're going to save copious amounts of money , you're doing it wrong . You're absolutely doing it wrong . Like ah , you just got to do it . Oh , we're absolutely doing it wrong . Like oh , yeah , okay , crazy yeah it was .
Speaker 2It was funny . It was just like what else can , can we do ? It got to the point , though it's like the principal was there for a couple years . I feel like things started to settle a bit and it she'd even walk up and say , good job , band , I like how you played , and then like , walked off . I'm like this is progress , this is progress , so let's roll with it .
Speaker 2It did finally taper off for a while , but you know it felt like anytime you got somebody new in there anywhere in that like upper level administration , they'd always question every line item in the budget . And , you know , at the same time we had stuff going on with our district office and our board , and you know I was there for a teacher strike because they were working on cutting benefits . It was , it was tumultuous , my my first few years when I was actually at the school , I was on a picket line . Few years when I was actually at the school I was on a picket line . So I saw a lot in just a short amount of time with what was going on there and , of course , the benefits . Everything . It even affected the teacher I was working for . So I was at board meetings and speaking and being my little young spitfire self . I'm here for it .
Speaker 1I'm here for it . So talk to me . Let's move from the administration and talk about the parents . Okay , in these conversations , I've heard a ton of things . Tell me about some of the headaches that you had experienced in the space while you were dealing with parents and what you would have wanted from them instead of what you got .
Speaker 2You know , I don't want to say the parents were my least favorite part of teaching , but honestly I think it was , and especially as a parent myself now I'm like I don't want to be one of those parents , so what ?
Speaker 1is one of those parents . What did they do ?
Speaker 2We would have times where you you know you send report cards out . Kids aren't doing too hot with their grades and it's banned . So you have parents go . What's going on with my kid ? I'm dropping them off for rehearsal . They're . They're in class . What's going on ? It's your fault , why . Why are they getting a d in band ? Why are they getting a c ? Your ?
Speaker 1mind , don't practice , but two times a week .
Speaker 2That's why they don't at all and you might be dropping them off , but they're not coming to class , okay , so , yeah , so it was always interesting having those conversations as to , hey , this is why their grades are not awesome , and then the parents turning around and blaming you and going to administration . I had kids that used to bring stuff that they couldn't have in class , like it's probably this is definitely going to date me , like the old , like Game Boy Advance , psps , like they're bringing them in class , like we're rehearsing , and I , literally I remember this little clarinet player , third row , and this kid sitting back there in the middle of rehearsal playing SPSB . So I took it away .
Speaker 2I had a little box in the office that you know , put stuff in it , lock it up . It was contraband and the parents would actually have to come in and get it from me . I wouldn't give it back to the student , and the amount of times that I'd have parents call me we'll just give it back . I'm like , no , this isn't policy . You're going to need to come in at some point and I need you to sign a form and then I can give it back to you to make sure it doesn't come back to school . The yelling , I got it left me over the phone .
Speaker 2Oh yeah .
Speaker 1Yelling at me . They're yelling at you for their disobedient kid over the phone oh yeah , yelling at you for their disobedient kid ?
Speaker 2yes , they are . Um , I had one section this is probably the worst thing that happened to me in band . We had a new student come in from a different school kid had his his own issues that we were taking care of . But we had three other boys in band that decided to pick him up after a field show , take him into a bathroom and hold his head in a toilet . Yeah , mind you , he was going to get suspended from band anyways . He was trying to throw our scores at a field show to give his old high school an advantage .
Speaker 2That was a whole other issue , but the kids decided to do vigilante justice . So I have this brawl going on . I got this kid with a head in a toilet and now , when we get back to the school , I have all these sets of parents that are all in and are all fighting with us , and we had one dad that fully agreed with what his son did , given this kid , trying to drown him in a toilet , and they were yelling at me about it like how , how dare you punish my son for trying to drown this other student ? Um , that was probably , well , that's not the worst thing that happened , but I , that one sticks with me . I I even had a student selling drugs out of the band room . He was not one of my kids , he was in
Transitioning from Teaching to Military Programs
Speaker 2an orchestra .
Speaker 2Um , and that's your kid selling the drugs it was , it was a , it was an orchestra kid on the drugs , um and it was , it was awful . I mean , he got in trouble , he got arrested . We I had to report it . He was doing it out of the office . He , he hid drugs in the couch um , that was in the office .
Speaker 1I mean , what was it ? I gotta know .
Speaker 2I'm very curious he was hiding marijuana in the couch well doing eight balls in high school we're not 100% what some of the stuff was . I'm by no means a drug expert , but I'm like , oh , that's baggies of drugs . So you know I had . It's like I felt terrible . I really liked the kid . He had some stuff going on at home but that's how he was getting money .
Speaker 1Hey , he needed to be able to play Chopin man .
Speaker 2That's how he's buying his cello . I don't know , but his dad actually came in and threatened to kill me because I reported his son . He actually threatened to murder me . That would not be the first time I've had a parent threaten to murder me too , which is which is in the world is going on where you were teaching I .
Speaker 2You know I I worked at a very you know we kind of talk about like title title one , schools versus I . This was in an affluent area . I large school , decent funding , a lot of extracurriculars we call that entitlement yeah , I , I would , I would , um , I would definitely say so .
Speaker 2I was the garbage teacher that turned his kid in , so I didn't deserve to live according to him . Yeah , it's great , I , you know it's . I'll kind of get back into this a little bit more later . I used to joke with my , with my husband . He's in the military and I'm like teachers public school teachers , high school I'm like we got PTSD Y'all . We had dangerous jobs , borderline , even some of the stuff versus what I saw , versus what he saw . So teaching's dangerous . It is a calling .
Speaker 1Otherwise it's tricky to do . You gotta love it . Talk to you , gotta love the kids . Talk to me about post-traumatic stress syndrome because , or disorder because you , you , you now work with veterans , right , so it's , this is not foreign to you . Let's , let's go here like what ? Why do you say teachers have ptsd ?
Speaker 2a lot of what we deal with , and so it's not even just that was traumatic having parents coming at me like that . We've got threats of violence from kids , from parents . We have kids bringing weapons to school . I had a parent that brought a gun to school and was up on our gym . It turned into a whole thing .
Speaker 1The parent brought a gun to school . For what purpose ?
Speaker 2um , he was having a mental health crisis . Some relationship related , went to his kid's school with a with a weapon , so but stuff like that happens . I even had we had a band kid actually that was afraid of a final coming up . He didn't study enough and he and his friends planted a fake bomb at the school . That year we had four bomb threats . One of them was real .
Speaker 1Wow , we just used to pull the fire alarm . Laura , like what happened to just pulling the fire alarm .
Speaker 2Ah , it doesn't work anymore . I mean , that happened enough too , let me tell you . But it would really escalate quickly and just trying to get to the kids and look for the signs before the stuff happened . But yet again , sometimes it's not even the kids , it's the parents threatening violence on other children and teachers at the school .
Speaker 1Do you feel like you were adequately prepared for the what I'll call the bad bossery of parents right Trying to meet their expectations or their , you know , whatever crazy they brought to your doorstep that day ?
Speaker 2You can only be prepared to a certain extent . Yeah , we talk about it . We talk about it when we're going through our teaching programs at school . I was in a great teaching program . I was at a great college , talked about it with my mentor , you know . He even went over issues that he had seen with the parents and how he handled situations . But I don't think you could ever be fully prepared .
Speaker 2It's like going through boot camp . You're learning all the skills , you're kind of getting indoctrinated into the role and being a public servant . You go to school for it for years . You get your time in the classroom , you do your student teaching , but then here you are , you're dropped in . It's fight or flight and you just have to take things as they come . You never really know what you're going to walk into day to day . You prepare as much as you can , you've got lesson plans , you've got curriculum , you know your kids , but you just never , never , really know what's going to happen . I mean it's kind of fun about teaching . You've got the organized chaos around you and you got all these great kids and all these learning opportunities . But then there's the dark side of it too , just working with so many people on a day-to-day basis , especially a difficult age group .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's absolutely beyond me . Having death threats and things like that . I can't imagine and I wonder . I've heard teachers on our show say that the first year that the kids got of me was my worst version of teaching , because I just wasn't prepared .
Speaker 2And that's usually how your first year , everybody will tell you it's just do your best , fake it till you make it . I just had the same conversation with my brother-in-law . Actually , he just started , this was his first year as an English teacher and he's like I don't feel prepared and I'm like I'm going to tell you what everybody told me as I was coming in Fake it till you make it . Be the authority in the room and just do your best . Try to rely on other mentors as much as you can . Know who the good teachers are , know who the bad teachers are , know who the snakes are , and just roll with it , because really that's all you can do . You get as prepared as possible and plan for different scenarios , and things never work out the way you think they will .
Speaker 1So , laura , you said something and I want to dig in this really quick before we pivot to the next part of our conversation . You said know who the good teachers are , know who the bad teachers are , know who the snakes are . What's the difference between the bad teacher , which I would assume is like somebody who just is not a good teacher , like they're not good at their craft , versus they're checked out ? Which is the snake ? Talk to me about the snakes the snakes are everywhere .
Speaker 2I I didn't think I'd find so many in the teaching profession , but it's . It's people that are ambitious , or you know , they've got a piece of the pie . They're non-core in some cases they're non-core teachers and they're fighting for a lot of the same funding you are .
Speaker 1Non-core teachers being people who don't teach science , math , technology , English .
Speaker 2Mostly math , mostly math and English , Some of the other . That's usually what core is considered nowadays . Even social studies and science isn't even necessarily core person that tears you down with your colleagues . It's the person that tries to ingratiate themselves with administration that's going to go . Oh well , I know this , I know this about this person , so you should give me their money next year . It's that kind of person . So we all know who snakes are in our careers . Unfortunately , you find them in the teaching profession too . Bad teachers , it's simple . They're checked out . They're not doing great things in their room . They haven't changed their curriculum in 30 years . They just stand up there , write a bunch of stuff on the board and then tell the kids to go do their homework . That I can deal with . It's people that are pretending to be helpful but are two-faced . So I've seen them not just , obviously , in teaching , but across all the different roles that I've had .
Speaker 1So you mentioned the different roles . Talk to us , because you've gone from teaching little kids to what you call little big kids , right ? So little kids to little big kids .
Speaker 2Oh gosh , I shouldn't say that out loud .
Speaker 1Having been in the training and development field for as long as I have , I totally understand it . But talk to us about why that might be at least marginally true for you .
Speaker 2I raise a kid at heart when you're training them At least you hope they are , because they'll grow as you're teaching them . No , I mean it was an interesting pivot and it was something that actually came out of necessity . So I became a male spouse . I married a service member and it was very A military spouse , so army spouse .
Speaker 2It was very tricky keeping your teaching credentials going across state lines . You're teaching credentials going across state lines and for those of us that move regularly with the military , staying at that level of public servant , keeping credentials common even . You know , I'd mentioned before making those networking connections to be able to get in a school with limited roles , it's really difficult for us to be able to do that moving from state to state . So you know we'd initially moved to . I was in North Carolina for a little while , had a good opportunity , had some time to network in , got offered a job at a high school . Actually I'm like great , I'm going back into teaching . They're converting my credentials from California to North Carolina . Everything seemed perfect . California to North Carolina , everything seemed perfect . And then my husband got orders . He got a document from the army that said hey , guess what ? Y'all are going to go move to Texas Congratulations , that's not disruptive at all . Oh , not at all . Not , not , not at all . So , yeah , no , we , we ended up having to move . I had to turn it down . I was still working , you know kind of that corporate America banking , banking type stuff when we were there . So I'm like , well , at least I have this , I should be able to take it with me while I figure out how to be a teacher in Texas . And that never happened . Actually , I could get my credentials converted when I got there . I was being forced to go back to school and do everything over for my graduate program . I was going to have to start my credentialing process over again . They just I basically got told we don't want teachers from California here . If you , if you want to teach , you're going to have to go through what Texas wants you to do . And it was hard to network . You know , in the local area , you know we were around Fort Bliss at the time and every HR person I talked to as I got there they're like are you a UTEP graduate ? And I said no , I'm a military spouse , I'm not from here . And they went okay , and they were totally uninterested and they were opening a ton of high schools . At the time , I'm just like , okay , well , this isn't working out for me , it's just not so .
Speaker 2I kicked around for a little while . I had an existential crisis for probably about a year , like what am I going to do ? What am I going to do next ? Like my whole life has revolved around this . I want to be a teacher and it was probably a narrow focus , I would think , because I'm like I'm always going to teach high school teaching music . This is what I love . This is what I wanted to do . This is what I wanted to do since I was a little kid and an opportunity came up for me on base .
Speaker 2I got connected in with some groups on the military installation and there's there's a program called Army Community Service and they got a bunch of jobs posted up for spouses . And someone reached out to me and said hey , you know , the Department of Defense has this new program for transitioning service members . It's called the TAP program . They've had it for some time . They've revamped it . There's a contractor that they got this new revamped contract and they need facilitators . They need some career transition trainers in there , and we think you'd be a good fit for it with your education degree and your experience and I said , oh , you know , this is .
Speaker 2This is interesting . I'm like I love to . I love to get back to the military . I've had family militarist . My spouse is in the military . I'm now a military spouse . I'm like this sounds really interesting . I've had experience hiring . I've had experience out there hustling and trying to get jobs . I'm like I think I can actually give some really solid advice to people that are getting out . So I applied , I got the job and really it was history from there . It was something I excelled at and got better at very quickly to the point that we had service members coming from all over the military need assistance transitioning out of the military . Like what's the ?
Speaker 1point of these programs . Just quickly for the folks who may not understand why .
Speaker 2Sure , it's difficult making transitions for any of us to different careers , and you think about somebody that has spent time in the military . It's very specific what they do in their roles . They don't need resumes and meetings to promote . They have their own processes , policies and procedures . It's individuals that have gone through a boot camp . They've gone through military training . And then I'll even focus on one particular group .
Speaker 2People have been in the military 10 years or more . It's a big change for many of them . They don't remember what it was like being a civilian hired . They have service-connected disabilities and they were asked to leave the military or they did it
Navigating Political Challenges in Veteran Services
Speaker 2of their own volition . Things are constantly changing in civilian environments . When it comes to getting a job , they need help . They need to know what they need to do to write a resume , how they need to network , what interviews are going to look like . Otherwise , they're not going to have a successful transition .
Speaker 2It's so important for them to be able to have that support and to give them a leg up , because what we were finding before these programs existed unemployment rates . It was varied between branches of service , but we were seeing unemployment rates 17% , 18% , 19% for service members going from the military out into the civilian world because they spoke their own language , they had their own jargon , they weren't even sure what they wanted to do or how it was going to correlate or translate , based off of where most of their experience has been . So that's where these programs really became key . So that's where these programs really became key and they've been running about 15 years now really , really heavily and they've only gotten better and now their unemployment rates are sitting pretty much in with everybody else's . But that's why . It's because this extra leg up and help and training is getting them ready for that transition .
Speaker 1Yeah , when I was at one of my first employers I had the opportunity of running an apprenticeship program with disabled vets to help transition and I would say , beyond the skills which are needed right the transfer , or at least learning what new skills they need to learn , it was the cultural transition that was important , like understanding , because military politics are not like corporate politics and the hierarchy may not be as respected in a corporate space as it requires in a military space . So I fully appreciate the service that you've been able to give in a very meaningful and altruistic sense , not that it wasn't good for the little kids , but specifically for our vets . I really applaud you for that . So , laura , talk to me about kind of how organizational culture affected your kind of experiences .
Speaker 2So I've been thankful as I've gone through and have been more active in the military community . I've I've gone into other companies that have respected veteran culture , military community culture , military spouses . So you know , after I was , I was working my government contracting role , doing the facilitation piece . I rolled into the nonprofit sector and yet we talk about those transition services to help ease individuals the skill sets , the culture , the necessary pieces of information they need to be successful in their next role . That's actually what I was doing with an organization called well , that program's called Onward Opportunity and it was with the Institute for Veterans and Military Families . Everything that we did was geared toward the military community and upskilling and certifications for those individuals to make them more valuable as they transition to civilian careers . They upskilled if they were a veteran or it was a male spouse that was trying to upskill or change careers themselves .
Speaker 2Because I can go on all day about male spouses and the issues that we face while we're with our service members and having to travel around the country and the world Because we have to put our careers on hold a lot . So you know , and even talking about my most recent role , I'll just say I was with the big four . Now y'all probably can check my LinkedIn anyways , but running military programs there , you know , focusing on skills that individuals need for corporate America that are going to be value . And even once veterans entered our company , we had our own program for veteran onboarding . It was part of my portfolio and you brought up a great piece about the culture learning a new language .
Speaker 2How do you communicate with others , because now you have civilians around you ? How do you get the military jargon out ? How do you be diplomatic in your approach and matrix organizations ? How are you going to network when you don't have rank and an ? A tape on your chest ? So it's all of those little pieces , and I love being in organizations that that support the military , that have these programs , that have these opportunities , because that's that's also . I mean , teaching is where my heart is . Kids are where my heart is , but I've been a part of the military community for so long . That's the core of my heart , along with education , training and teaching . So anywhere that I could do that , that's what's important to me , and those organizations that are supporting the military are also what's going to be important to me .
Speaker 1But talk to me about a bad boss in this field right now . You've gotten out of the schools . Give us you know you've learned . Now you are long in the tooth when it comes to your career . So , like now , what have you faced in your working tenure in terms of bad bosses ?
Speaker 2Oh man , this gets tricky because I'm like I'm still in the space . Are they going to ?
Speaker 1know what I'm talking about . We will change the names to protect the innocent and the guilty . Uh , and we don't even have to talk about the company because everybody will go look at your linkedin . But like , give me like you know here's the scenario . Here's what caught me off guard , Like what you know , what sticks out for you ?
Speaker 2I don't even know if I can . It wasn't even necessarily a direct boss . The difficulty you find yourself in when you're doing roles like this is a political nature of it . Not everybody has the best interest at heart for the service member . You're having to partner with federal agencies . There's specific structures on the installation that you you know when I started as a contractor . You have to work with these individuals . It's part of your contract , it's part of the structure of the transition programs and that's more of where I had my issues .
Speaker 2I've honestly had amazing bosses in most of my career when dealing with transition programs . There's been things here and there that I'm like get the little eye roll in there . But it was the bigger issue working within the contractor ecosystem and dealing with certain federal employees that you could . They were the boss , whether they were mine directly or not . That didn't . They tried to make things as difficult as possible for you to be able to do your role . A lot of pushback and it's yet again unnecessary drama associated with the programs . Like why is this so hard to make sure we have our books in the room when we get in there on Tuesday morning ? Like why is this an issue ? Go get them yourself . Well see , let's talk about how this contract works and who has the business insurance . Okay , and having to sit here and navigate some of these political firestorms because , at the same time , you're also representing a company that's going to put a bid on this contract again in a few years .
Speaker 2So it's not like , hey , I'm just a facilitator , coming into this space as a guest , getting these service members through to meet at least minimum requirements of their military transition and being as informative as I can . I'm now having to navigate the space of other contractors . We're working with the GS employees , the heads of the TAP program at the installation , the Department of Labor who we were under contract for with DOL vets . It's a firestorm , it's a minefield , and making sure you have the right people in place that have an understanding of how to talk to people in the right way , but also remaining firm and making sure these service members are getting what they need to . It's all key . So I talked about it a little bit more broadly . I'm like , hopefully I made that anonymous enough .
Speaker 1I will say that in a lot of these situations , both in three-letter organizations in the government and not , you will find people who power trip just because they can , they can you will find people who aren't good partners right .
Speaker 1I think one of the things that I've learned in my career is just trying to create partnerships between people to show that the value we're bringing is a benefit to them rather than you're doing me a favor by helping me with the thing that you're supposed to be doing in the first place and that , yes , I am here to serve , but I'm not a servant .
Speaker 2And I'm also not a doormat .
Speaker 1That part Right , and that's really what I meant , Not that I don't have a service . You know servant mentality and as much as what we're not going to do is diminish me and the things that I can do to make you feel better .
Speaker 2Yeah , and that was the problematic aspect of it too . It's just , it was unnecessary and I'm resilient and I could take care of it . I tried to protect my people . I worked with at the installation directly , but it was difficult and we would have people leave their
Final Thoughts and Episode Closing
Speaker 2role . They're just like I can't do this . It's unnecessary . I can't do this . The schedule changes , the classroom changes , the pushback , gs employees yelling at us the second we come in the door in the morning it was tricky .
Speaker 1Laura , thank you so much for being a part of . So your Boss Sucks Now what . This has been an amazing conversation and we look forward to hearing how successful you are in this next chapter .
Speaker 2Thanks so much . Thanks so much , ali . This was a lot of fun , thank you .
Speaker 1Today's episode is brought to you by Natalie Parker Enterprises , where we shape the future and unlock potential by helping organizations and people work together to do good work . Find out more at thenatalieparkercom , or , if you'd like to be a sponsor , email us at info at thenatalieparkercom . Or if you'd like to be a sponsor , email us at info at the natalieparkercom .
