So Your Boss Sucks, Now What?
Bad bosses happen to good people. Join entrepreneur, corporate trailblazer-turned-business strategist, and podcast host Natalie Parker as she unpacks real-life stories of tough leaders and toxic work environments. With Natalie’s expertise in navigating corporate chaos and building strategies for success, this podcast offers practical advice and actionable insights to help you turn workplace challenges into opportunities for growth. Whether you’re dealing with micromanagers, toxic cultures, or just plain bad vibes, this is your go-to guide for taking control, thriving, and proving that when your boss sucks, your success doesn’t have to.
So Your Boss Sucks, Now What?
S3 E9: Burned Out, Bullied, and Still Here
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
What happens when the systems meant to protect educators fail them? In this powerful conversation, Teacher of the Year and 20-year veteran educator Ann Anderson takes us behind the classroom door to reveal the often unseen battles teachers face when leadership falls short.
Growing up in Danville, Virginia's close-knit White Rock community, Ann absorbed profound lessons about education's transformative power from family members who emphasized knowledge, articulation, and community responsibility. These early influences shaped her teaching philosophy when she transitioned from journalism to education two decades ago. Though initially challenging, Ann developed a reputation for consistency, high expectations, and genuine care that recently earned her Teacher of the Year recognition.
But Ann's career hasn't been without significant struggles. She candidly shares experiences with poor leadership, including a principal who publicly berated her teaching methods in front of students and an administration that questioned her judgment when, as a mandated reporter, she flagged inappropriate behavior between a staff member and female students. Most disturbingly, Ann reveals how an assault by a colleague triggered past trauma, and how school leadership initially failed to provide adequate support or accountability.
Throughout these challenges, Ann demonstrates remarkable resilience by knowing her rights, documenting everything, and utilizing resources like union representation. Her hard-won wisdom serves as a roadmap for other educators facing similar situations: "Don't wait for your employer to tell you what your rights are," she advises. "Make sure you understand what they are yourself."
Despite these difficulties, Ann's commitment to her students never wavered. She describes her classroom philosophy with profound simplicity: "When they are my children in the classroom, they're my children forever." This relationship-centered approach has created generations of students who still stop to hug their former teacher years later.
Have you experienced inadequate support in your workplace? Share your story or advice for others navigating similar challenges. Remember: knowing your rights might be the difference between being victimized and empowered when systems fail.
Don't let your boss suck the life out of you.
Share your bad boss story on our website.
Learn more or Book Natalie.
Importance of Protecting Children
Speaker 1As long as I've been in education really as long as I've been a grown person I've been told watch how you handle other people's children . Nine months later , the young man lost his job when his wife found out that he was trying to talk to a child's mother at the school . I know you're lying .
Speaker 2Welcome to . So your Boss Sucks Now what . I'm your host , natalie Parker . Generally speaking , I absolutely frown upon most forms of nepotism at work , but since it's my podcast and the person I'm going to bring on is pretty dope , we'll allow it .
Speaker 2My next guest is a family member . She's actually my cousin , but she's recently been awarded the teacher of the year , and she has veteran teaching status of over 20 years in her hometown of Danville , virginia . In this episode , we're going to talk about everything from her chaotic first days as an educator and why education for her is so important in both her own upbringing and that of her children . We're going to talk about how she echoes my sentiment of document everything and how she suffered public humiliation in her classroom from a leader and how she managed that . We're also going to talk about some real deep challenges she had , with not only burnout , but also a personal issue she had , and how her leaders failed to support her , and what she did to find herself and advocate for herself . This episode is extremely deep and it also deals with some very sensitive issues , and so I challenge you to listen with care , give yourself grace and take a minute and listen to my conversation with my cousin Anne Anderson .
Speaker 2Hi , anne , it's good to have you on . Sew your Boss Sex . Now what ? How are you ? Fantastic , thank you so much for having me . Listen , I'm excited to have you have such a great longevity of recognized experience , of awarded experience . But because you're my family and so I'm going to put that out there right now , this is my fam , so if y'all don't like this episode , that's on y'all because we're going to have fun . So listen , I want to talk about . You hail from my mother's hometown , danville , virginia , as my grandmother would call it , the Big D . The Big D . Tell me about when you knew that teaching was the thing that you were made to do .
Speaker 1Well , coming from the Big D and coming from the White Rock community , we've had a wealth of love . You know , we were born in New York and my mother passed , and we were very young . This community rescued us the McLaughlin family , White Rock Hill . They were so kind to us , they just brought us in with open arms and this community has been our home for well over 50 years . We have not wanted to leave here because it has been the root of everything for us . I mean , it's just been our home .
Speaker 1So , with that being said , when I started having children , of course I wanted to make sure that my children were rooted in this community and of course I want to make sure that my children got the same love that we had gotten . And then I said , well , wait a minute , the love that this community gave me I need to give to other kids as well . And so , with that being said , teaching was only natural , and I believe that it's not just the educational aspect of it but the structure . The kids need structure . They need to know that they are loved , they need to know that you know what's out there to prepare for the future , I mean there needs to be a lot more grounding , because today they don't have the , as Aunt Jenny would say , the raising that we had back in the day .
Speaker 2It takes
Teaching Roots and Community Support
Speaker 2a village to raise a child , and that's what we need to remember that so the Aunt Jenny that you mentioned is my grandmother , jenny McLaughlin , who passed a few years ago , and I miss her dearly and she's one of the reasons why I think I made my entree into corporate America , because she used to call me Miss Executive Lady . Every time she was like where are you going , miss Executive Lady ? And my grandmother was a part of the community that you talked about .
Speaker 1And .
Speaker 2I think the other thing that strikes me , as you're you know , as I'm talking to you , is that I would say that our family is full of what my Uncle Wesley , I remember he said this one time in a sermon . I thought it was like what is he ? He's making up words . Our family is full of academicians , right ? People who are deeply enthralled and in love and pursuing academia and all things academic , and it makes sense to me that you found space in there . It makes sense from you know my grandfather , uncle Wayman , your grandmother . You know my grandfather , uncle Wayman , your grandmother , like they all , had such a deep understanding of the value of capturing , retaining and relaying knowledge in a way that made it compelling . It made it you wanted people to hear you know , to listen to them and to tell the stories in the way that they did Talk to me about how growing up around that knowledge bank , if you will , kind of shaped you as an educator .
Speaker 1I remember Grandma Odessa , odessa P Watkins , and she was , I want to say , a bishop in her right , because she went from church to church to church and she gave speeches all over town . And she would . She was constantly writing speeches , she was constantly practicing speeches , constantly making us give welcome speeches and the announcements and , oh my goodness , you know , we had to perform in every program . It was just amazing and at one time I remember man , why do we have to always do this ? But it got to the point where it was enthralled in us . Well , we knew that was going to . It was expected of us . It was expected of us to perform . It was expected of us to learn . It was expected of us to learn . It was expected of us to speak in church , in public , to read , to make sure we enunciated .
Speaker 1I remember being young and your grandfather , uncle Ernest McLaughlin . He would make sure we had dictionaries at the house . I couldn't go anywhere on Saturday mornings or really early Saturday afternoon , because he'd be working on his sermon and he would call me at any time to ask me how to spell a word . And I remember one time I made the mistake of asking him why he needed me to spell a word for him because he was reading the sermon . No one was going to be reading the sermon . They would not know if the word was spelled incorrectly . He laid me out , so I would never ask him that again . So I made sure I was always available for Uncle Ernest . I also remember Uncle Wayman coming down and we were always having birthday celebrations each month . So , if you know , we might have five people that had a birthday in the month of July , and so we had a big birthday celebration and I loved it when Uncle Wayman came down , because I wanted him to see something that I had written in school , because he would make over it . So , oh , my goodness , he would say I was the smartest thing and he would , you know , read it . And he would you know oh , if I was your teacher , I'd give you an A for this , and this is what I like the best . And he would just . He made me feel like I was the star student I liked the best and he would just , he made me feel like I was the star student . He did , and I loved it . So it was that type of support , that type of love .
Speaker 1You know , they all fit our self-esteem , they fit our need to , our need to learn , our need to be somebody , our need to know what our niche was in life . They fit our need to know our community , our need to know what our niche was in life . They said our need to know our community , our need to know our heritage , our need to know you know where we are past so we can know what our future is . They said everything , and so just from that alone I have so many stories to tell my own children . I love to tell them the stories of just White Rock Baptist Church Mr Bland , mr Kenan Bland , miss Vivian Bland , all of the educators that were in the church with us , mr David Lyons , miss Annette Lyons . We had Bank President , mr Sylvester Jennings , the first Black bank president . We had Black history every Sunday and we didn't even realize until we got older and this younger generation has no earthly idea on the fact , the richness of what Danville's community has to offer . It's amazing .
Speaker 2Yeah , it is amazing and I will say one of the benefits I had although I didn't grow up in Danville is I did get to take a class with our Uncle Wayman . So Uncle Wayman was my grandfather's brother and he was a doctor of philosophy at A&T and I remember taking his class and just how much knowledge he had and just the level of just not critical thinking but philosophical thinking , his ability to juxtapose ideas against each other . I do think that having a community of learners and lifelong learners is really a game changer as an educator . So talk to me about you . Get into the . You know you decide to go into education Like what was the first year like for you .
Speaker 1Well , it was a rude awakening because the children bless their hearts were not as receptive as I was hoping they would be not as receptive as I was hoping they would be .
Speaker 2What do ?
Speaker 1you want to learn . That's not every child want to be in the classroom and so that's just a whole struggle in itself . But once you get past the behavior barriers and you make those relationships , then they're eager to learn . So you have to tell a lot of stories . You have to make them interested first , and then they're receptive to whatever you're trying to say to them . But most definitely it was something else . It really was . The attitudes were out of this world .
Speaker 2And what age did you start ? What grade level ?
Speaker 1I started with 12th grade , 10th grade and 9th grade , so I had three grade levels when I first came in . And now when I came in , I had no experience whatsoever . I didn't go to school for teaching . I was going to school to become well , I was going to school to become a reporter . Going to school to become .
Speaker 2Well , I was going to school to become a reporter .
Speaker 1I was going for communication and as I was reporting for the Danville Register and Bee , I was asked I was covering the education beat . And I was asked hey , you're covering the education beat , would you like to become a teacher ? Because we need an English teacher , we need several English teachers actually , so we'd love to have you . I said , oh , I don't think I'm interested in that . And so they had several principals call me and I said , well , maybe so , my goodness . So that was . That was a real rude awakening , but I've loved it ever since . But it did take about two months to get the hang of it , you know , to have three different , three different curriculums going , three different sets of students I mean students who were literally okay with having , you know , wrestling on the floor as I was coming into class to teach them , you know . So they really had to have a lot of rules put in place , a lot of structure put in place , but thankfully we lived through it . That was my first year 20 years ago .
Speaker 2Now you are what I would consider a veteran in the high school education space .
Speaker 1You've taught all grade levels in high school .
Speaker 2Yes , okay , and that's been mainly your space .
Speaker 1Yes , so 9th and 11th and 12th yes .
Speaker 2Which is a nice little cross section of phases and development . 20 years in you received , was it ? Last year you received the Teacher of the Year . Award .
Speaker 1Last year . Yes , ma'am .
Speaker 2So tell me what that felt like . You finally like a whole 20-year career . You get the Teacher of the Year Award . What did that feel like for you ?
Speaker 1I was very humbled that my colleagues considered me worthy to get Teacher of the Year . I worked very hard to make sure that they have a Black history program , to make sure that we have a lot of tutoring for children , just to help you know any of them , anything that they need , and so to think that they would do that for me , I was just . I just couldn't believe it . I just couldn't believe it . I was at a loss for words and even now still I'm at a loss
First Days as a Teacher
Speaker 1of words that they would even do that . I really am .
Speaker 1That's an award . I want to say once again , the other teachers voted me for that . So the teachers at George Washington High School .
Speaker 2Right , but your career hasn't always been sunshine and rainbows , right . Talk to me about you know . The first time you know we can save the names to respect the guilty and the innocent , the first encounter you had with a bad leader or bad leadership skills as you're working as a teacher what was that like ?
Speaker 1Well , I do want to say that within 20 years I have not had many bad encounters . That is a definite blessing , but of the encounters that I have had , they have been major ones . I've had a couple of new principals . Well , let me rephrase that . I've had a principal who came in and she was very rude to me in front of my classroom . She was demeaning , yelled at me , didn't like the lesson that I had prepared for my students , and you know what .
Speaker 2Ms Anderson , what you doing Like what ?
Speaker 1No , she came in . She came in . She was actually a very new . She was a new principal from another state . She was making rounds . She had only been there maybe two and a half weeks , but the two and a half weeks that she had been there it seemed like we had been in school 20 weeks . Because of the way she was talking to the staff and the teachers . It was a long two weeks . And when she came in I can't exactly remember what she said but she did not like a movie clip that I was showing and the discussion we were having about a way that was . I think I was showing a movie to compare to a book and it was maybe like a five minute clip and she wasn't . She didn't appreciate that and she stood up and told me not to show that again and the children turned and looked at her . They couldn't believe that she was saying that because there was nothing wrong with it and I just sort of kept on going . I did not even acknowledge her , I just kept on going and she ranted a little bit and she left and slammed the door . She slammed the door and we just kept on going and the students were very upset but we just kept on going . We were very upset .
Speaker 1There was another time when I've had an administrator make other comments to other teachers , calling them stupid in meetings .
Speaker 1So not to me , but calling other teachers stupid , but calling other teachers stupid . I've heard administrators and when I say administrators I'm not just talking about principals talking to someone in the school board office , maybe talking negatively about people in the community or students or other teachers . I've heard someone speaking very negatively towards a student , very negatively , and those things impact the students because it doesn't matter , even if a student is unsure about wanting to be there , regardless of what the student has going on , the student still expects the teacher , the administrator , to do their job and to lead them . They still expect , they want structure , regardless of whatever they say . They're yearning for that , they're yearning for that . And so you've got to be as polite and you've got to be as pleasant and you've got to try to . You know , manage and do your job the best you can . And when you're not pleasant , when you are not polite , when you are just , you know negative to that child , what kind of impact can you have ? You don't know what these kids go through when they're at home .
Speaker 2But so I want to . I want to kind of rewind back to the , the leader who came into your classroom and started criticizing and what have you ? What was , what was the outcome of that situation between ? Did you go back to her and say , hey , listen , I didn't appreciate that , or I want to understand where you're coming from , or did you kind of just shut yourself out of it and just keep going ?
Speaker 1Well , that's a good question . At that time , I believe tensions were so high there was not going to be a . That would not have been a viable solution to do that . No , I sort of let that go . I did write it up and I did send um . Oh , I wrote it , I documented it and I believe I submitted um a letter to school board members about that but wait a minute , I gotta .
Speaker 2I gotta do this because I tell everybody all of the time when it comes to poor behavior and leaders at work document everything . So proud of you for documenting everything , everything .
Speaker 1I'm so proud of you for documenting everything . Documents , documents , and I did . I did submit to school board members and later on that young lady she was no longer . She was let go later on but there were other issues that were going on . So she she only spent about maybe a half a year with us and she went on her way about , maybe a happier with us , and she went on her way .
Speaker 2I will say that my professional diagnosis and experience , regardless of the industry , is that when a leader , especially at the executive level , comes in hot like that , where they're criticizing and berating or extremely I'd say , acutely aware of the negative things happening in a situation be it a school or corporate situation or whatever what happens is during the interview process , they are hired with the concept and the intent of like we're bringing you in to fix this .
Speaker 2They're brought in with like listen , these people are not doing their thing , your team's a little this , your team's a little that from some other person and they've got the impression they typically get the impression that they have to come in in clean house and no one ever tells y'all that we're in this workforce of like hey , listen , this person's coming to whip you into shape , right , and more often than not , the person that's doing the appointment has no relationship or even context or facts around that . Often Sometimes , it's true , sometimes it's not with some mission of setting the house in order . That does not take into account the need to observe before they start disrupting things and to learn before they start disrupting things .
Speaker 2So if you're a leader listening and you're a new leader . I encourage you to get the book the First 90 Days . I encourage you to do listening tours before you start touching stuff , because more often than not you've gotten one side of seven sides of a story and you don't know what to change , because you don't know what you're getting ready to blow up and it sounds like a combination of that and the leader just not having a lot of tact and grace and the leader does not have a lot of tact and grace ?
Speaker 1Yeah , and then also Natalie . There was another time when now I got along with another administrator . He was a very nice fellow , but as far as his leadership skills I do question them . Because there was an issue where I felt that another employee was inappropriate with some of our female students and when I , as a mandated reporter , reported that it was ignored . I reported again and later on , and then it got to the point where the students were coming to me and talking to me and complaining about it .
Speaker 1So my conversation with the students were ladies , tell your parents , tell the principal , report it , because it's inappropriate for a man to be , especially a man who is working here , to be me talking about . I shouldn't be telling these young ladies that it's inappropriate , but it was inappropriate . But yet I sat there and I listened and I sat there and I listened
Confronting Poor Leadership
Speaker 1and I'm going to tell you why . And this and it makes me sort of laugh to myself , because I believe these three young men felt that my silence was that my silence was weakness , but it wasn't . Was that my silence was weakness , but it wasn't . Because I had nothing personal against that young man who I reported as a mandated reporter , nothing personal at all . I didn't know that young man , personally I didn't . But as a mandated reporter I need to report it .
Speaker 2But if I had said I'm sorry , please , no , no , no , so for the finish your to finish your thought , because I want to also explain to people what mandatory reporting is , especially in the education space .
Speaker 1Oh sure , okay , so , but the thing is that I wasn't going to argue about the man's case , because then that would make it seem like I wanted the man to be guilty . I'm just telling you all that this is what's going on . So I wasn't trying to sit over here and go and have an argument with them . I'm just telling you all this is what's going on . So it's your . It's your at this point , your responsibility as the administrators , as the man supervisor , to talk to this man and ask this man what's going on , to talk to the children , to talk to witnesses . But that wasn't done at that time . They talked to me about okay , you shouldn't be saying this .
Speaker 1And we don't want to hear you saying this again . No , I am't be saying this and we don't want to hear you saying this again . No , I am going to say this as long as these children come to me and tell me I'm going to say but I did my part , I reported it , and a school board and someone from the school board office and the principal and the young man who I accused . Thankfully I had a female principal who was actually in the room as well , but I just couldn't believe , and she was a witness . I wouldn't have a me without her , but I just couldn't believe that this is .
Speaker 2Bullying at its finest .
Speaker 1It is because you're upset , because I'm saying this man is inappropriate with these young ladies .
Speaker 2Or at least that has been alleged , right . So this is what I . It's been alleged . It's , I understand . It's been alleged .
Speaker 1It's been alleged . It's been alleged , so I'm telling you what I see . I'm telling you what the kids are saying . So , if that's the case , do an investigation on that . But I'm saying that this is going on , and as long as I've been in education , really as long as I've been a watch how you handle other people's children . You don't know what somebody's child might say . So why is it that now , all of a sudden , it's almost as free reign to be so carefree with other people's children , especially these men ? They're so carefree talking to these young girls in high school . I don't understand it . Do you not value your job , do you not ?
Speaker 2So a couple of things One tell everybody . For the folks who don't know , I was going to explain a dictionary earlier but I did not do . But let's talk about , because some people have never seen a dictionary .
Speaker 1But let's talk to the folks about what mandatory reporting is , why it's necessary and how you are accountable for mandatory reporting as an educator in your state abused , a child that might be hurt , if I see anything that does not seem to fit the healthy bill of a child walking in the building to be educated , if I see anything that might be awry with this child , it is my responsibility to alert administration , for the school , to alert social services and for there to be an investigation to make sure that child is not being abused in some way or form . Whether the child comes in with tattered clothes . The child comes in looking hungry . The child comes in and says that he or she is in distress physically . The child comes in and says someone is touching them , saying something inappropriately , I mean someone's hitting the poor child . It doesn't matter , I've got to say something . If I don't say something and it comes out that the child was in distress and the child had said something to me or I was aware of it , then I can go to jail and lose my job . So that is what a teacher is supposed to do , you know .
Speaker 1So , with that being said , if I'm in the conversation and kids are talking about inappropriate things being said to them by someone who is a grown man in the school , working in the school , my lord Guess what I've got to report it If I see something that doesn't look quite right . And I'm not saying quite right on a oh , I'm going to investigate , I'm just saying quite right , as I'm a grown woman who has a child and I wouldn't want my child to be talked to like that or my child to be around something like that . This doesn't look quite right . It's my responsibility to report that . We have cameras all over the school , so if something is going on and then they go , look at the camera well , ms Anderson was in the vicinity . Why didn't you say something about ?
Speaker 2it . But , Anne , what do you say to people who I'm sure I'm sure I'm a here to this ? I'm sure people are like , yeah , but these girls out here in high school looking like they in their late twenties and they fast and blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah . What do you say to that ? The over , the over-sexualization of high school kids .
Speaker 1And and that is exactly right they um , and they do look like they're grown women . They may act like they're grown women and they may love any type of attention that they get from a man or a woman at this point . They may love it . But , with that being said , there still has to be a boundary a healthy boundary between an adult and a child , and in the real world , while there may not always be that healthy boundary between an adult and a child in the school system , there's supposed to be , be they're supposed to be , and so you have this .
Speaker 2they basically staged this intervention for you , who are not the culprit of the accused thing . That was said to the children inappropriately , they staged this intervention .
Speaker 1They staged it . I didn't stage it , that's what I'm saying . They staged it . Yeah , they staged it .
Speaker 2The first thing that comes to mind is the lyrics from the Dukes of Hazzard Just the good old boys . Boys never made no home , and it's an ode to men taking care of men . Yes , this principal , this other principal female in there with you . What happens at the end of the conversation ? Because I can appreciate it , I think it's a really strategic move on your part . It's like you know what I'm not going to argue with you .
Speaker 2I said what I said . Don't ask me again and it's on record that I said what I said . And now it's your liability , not mine . What happens after that ? Like , how are you treated ? What's like ? Does the other young lady in the room say , like you know what she's right ? Like what's , what's ? What's the tea in the room ? The female witness . She was quiet and listened .
Speaker 1That's all she did , which I appreciate that I listened and they felt like they won . And were you ? They felt like they won . That , what , that's what that that's . They felt they won and that's what that was their feeling that they had won . Now , it wasn't my feeling at all , because I said what I'd said . I didn't back down , I wasn't upset , I wasn wasn't mad . I said what I said .
Speaker 2And I think so sidebar , right . So again , we're talking about bad bosses . When dealing with a bully , one of the things to master and I think you're displaying this to us is like maintain your own composure . Yeah , because the bully feeds on fear and I've said it before , you can't control what somebody else's fears . Right , if they fear you , they fear your intellect , they feel your positioning , they fear that you're going to say the truth . Right , there's all these laws because people , when they operate in fear , they make very bad decisions and they typically try to lean on or oppress another person . The best thing you can do is one , be strategic . Two , maintain your composure . There's no , especially in a power situation , because you didn't have power in the conversation , it was the person trying to intimidate you into some level of submission , right , right , and being able to maintain your composure to say I've said what I said , I don't need to repeat myself , let's move on . So you leave the room . They think they got the W . Then what happens ?
Speaker 1Well , nothing happened for a while . Things went on as usual . Coincidentally , I want to say maybe eight , nine months later , the young man unfortunately lost his job when his wife found out that he was trying to talk to a child's mother at the school .
Speaker 2I know you lied .
Speaker 1And apparently she put the information on Facebook and was upset with that on Facebook and was upset with that . And then she came up to the school with , if I'm not mistaken , a hammer or a bat , maybe both of those , and he went and he ran and hid and it was a big mess and he and well , all I can say is , as Aunt Jenny might say , the mess hit the fan . So you know , but you know , I hate that for these young people . I hate that because we're supposed to be role models and so , lord knows , I didn't take any .
Speaker 2I was , I was .
Speaker 1I was really hoping that , that they could be True role models for the children , because the children seemed to enjoy a lot of children seem to enjoy the fellow when he was there working and I was hoping that , you know , he would get himself together and I was hoping that you know I'd be wrong and that the allegations that were being said , you know , were not going to be correct . But , needless to say and I can't tell you what was , what was , I just know what I saw , what I was hearing , but I had to report it . But that is what happened to the young man and I was very sorry to hear that .
Speaker 2I hate it for him and I feel like I just heard like the ending of a very interesting Tyler Perry show with the lady and the hammer .
Speaker 1My God , you can't , you can't make this stuff up , you really can't so , but but this is . This is my thing , though , why we talk about this good old boy network has still . We , as women , are fighting to be heard in the workplace . What we say seems to never be heard . It's never heard , and so I'm just wondering why is it Men who are professionals , who have worked hard and are making huge salaries in the school system , put their , put their jobs on the line for someone , for someone else like that , who actually is you know what has that type of behavior ? Why would you do that ? You know , be professional , be professional . All you have to do is just be professional , be professional , and you don't have to worry about that . Have those talks with your subordinates .
Speaker 2Yeah , I've found it's funny . I've had my fair share of internal investigations of staff members and finding out that there were relationships that were inappropriate that much like I don't say every man , but a lot of men will more than likely either default to minding their own business and defaulting to not being suspicious and curious and lean on the bias of oh , he's cool , he wouldn't do that . There's this interesting I don't want to say logic , but just an assumption like nah , he would never do that , and they and they move on and you never know how you're painted in the conversation of either well , she wants me , or she's jealous , or all of the 17 things he probably told himself to jump right and so , and and you know you have an earned reputation of being feisty , right and so I think , tell me so .
Speaker 2I think people find that both intimidating and maybe even off-putting , because you , you don't mince words . We didn't grow up in houses where you minced words . It was either white or black , yes or no . You did it or you didn't . And even if you didn't , you still might get a spanking for it because somebody did it . If we can't find some help for it , right , Ain't none of y'all going to fess up and everybody getting a punishment ? And so this , the system of both truth and justice that I have witnessed you live by , is not universal .
Speaker 2Not everybody has those values , Not everybody has that muster , Not everybody has that commitment and dedication to this kind of concepts of like it's right is right and wrong is wrong In a lot of places it's very relative in a lot of places it's very relative .
Speaker 2So talk to me about you know you have like a thousand and one stories , there's just so many to go into . You do a lot outside of the school system . Like you tutor . You've been in mental health . Like , talk to me about the things that you've seen from a mental health perspective in dealing with being an educator and what challenges you see with teachers and the things that they face . I see a lot of burnout .
Speaker 1I see teachers that do not know how to say no . I see teachers that do not know how to say no . They take on too many commitments and it's not because they don't have the ability to control their schedule . It's because they just have that love , they have that passion . I myself have the same problem . You know , I want to do a thousand things and my body and my time unfortunately can't take care of all these things . But a lot of teachers they wind up not being able to do their meditation , their mindfulness exercises , which is what they definitely need to do .
Speaker 1Teachers need to be able to , please , use your counseling services . You need a counselor . You need to be able to vent and talk to someone . Don't go home and vent . No , don't go home and vent , because your loved ones will be tired of hearing it . You need to go to someone . I'm sure you have benefits .
Speaker 1Go to a counselor , a medical trained counselor , and let them tell you and they'll probably tell you the same thing . They'll probably tell you deep breathing exercises . They'll tell you , you know , keep a journal . They'll tell you , think positive thoughts . They'll tell you to sing . They'll tell you to have , you know , a special day for yourself . You know , take 15 minutes each day , maybe listen to a certain song , maybe take a long bubble bath .
Speaker 1You've got to have some type of relaxation time for yourself and of course you know this stuff , but sometimes it takes somebody else to tell you that and you've got to be able to also talk to somebody outside of your household . You've got to . So please take care of yourself , because it's terrible to be burned out and if you are burned out , you're not going to be able to do your job . You're going to wind up resenting your job and your students are going to . They're going to understand that that enthusiasm that you had in your eyes when you walked into that classroom the first day is going to be gone by week six , by week six , not week 26 . By week six . So please take care of yourself and understand that you are just as important as the students . You're just as important as your children , as your husband , as your mother , as anybody else , your neighbors you're taking care of , as your dogs . You are important , so treat yourself accordingly as well .
Speaker 2What about the school system , Ann ? Because you said all . Really , I agree with you on a thousand fronts . But what is it about the current environment in the education space that leads to some of this burnout , that leads to people being asked over and over again to extend beyond
Workplace Assault and Advocacy
Speaker 2what's on the job description or what can be fit into their work hours ?
Speaker 1Well , first of all , there's so much that we have to do in a short amount of time that you feel like you'll never get it done . And so you're taking so much work home with you . I mean , the work is overpowering . So it's not just teaching the classes , it's the lesson planning , it's the preparation for the classes , it's all the other mentoring that you have to do , it's all the other assignments that they plan for you to do , it's when you're voluntold to take on committees and voluntold for other jobs . I mean there's so many things because pretty much with our contract , you're told that you are owned from 8 o'clock to 3.30 . And so you're pretty much expected to do what they told you to do . You pretty much are expected . And then a lot of times you feel like if you complain about a lot of stuff , you might I don't know , you might be retaliated against . There is that air of retaliation . There really is .
Speaker 2Tell me about experience that you've witnessed this retaliation .
Speaker 1Maybe not you , but I've witnessed people maybe not being promoted to different jobs because they might complain about different things . They felt that their rights were being violated . I have , wow , I mean it's scary . It's scary when you are , when you have worked so hard and went to school for so long to you know , to be in a profession and you feel that that can be jeopardized by you saying no to something , by you asking not to do something , by you asking maybe for help with something . That is that is terrifying , by you saying that you don't think that something is correct . I myself , I was afraid that I was going to be and I was going to face that .
Speaker 1When about maybe I want to say it might have been February we had an issue with our tax withholding . It was a tax withholding scandal at Danville Public Schools where somehow I don't know how , but Danville Public Schools was not able to honor most of the employees on federal W-4s , and so we didn't . Most of the employees didn't find that out until we got our W-2s and we found out hold for a second , these look a little different . We started getting our taxes done and we're wait a minute . Why do we owe so much money back ? Hold on , this is not right . And so , when this started coming out , a lot of people felt like we were being victimized , because we were told well , you all weren't checking your pay stubs or you all must not have done your W-4s correctly , and that was . And a lot of people were so upset , but people were afraid to say something because you were afraid of what was going to come from saying something . Well , I went to the school board and I said something my three-minute speech on how Lord have mercy , my three minutes .
Speaker 1Odessa prepared you . Well , exactly three minutes they give you on how true that it wasn't our fault and how we were victimized . And the very children ? The very children , because we're taking care of low income children in Danville , virginia , yet you're tearing the houses , the households of the very children , up , because we're the parents of the children who go to your schools , and so our households are going to financially suffer because of the mistake that has been made . So , yes , while we did get that money during the year , we were not aware of that . We're not accountants .
Speaker 1And to tell me that I should have been looking at my check stub I'm not an accountant but I've been working for well over 32 years . I have never had to look at McDonald's , I never had to check with Family Dollar . I've been with this school system for almost 20 years at that time and I never had a problem . Now it's a problem . Now I've got to check it , which I'm saying . It's good to check stuff , but once again , I didn't know . I would not have known if they were taking the correct amount . We were getting different raises and things , so it was very hard for us to understand that . Apparently , it was hard because they didn't get it right . Needless to say , I was very , I was very worried that I was going to face some backlash from that , and I was thankful that I had the DEA , the Danville Educators Association , behind me , because I was talking on behalf of my peers and my you know fellow associates when I made that statement .
Speaker 1Yet yet , a month , not even a month after that happened , not even a month after that happened , I was assaulted by an employee in the hallways at George Washington High School , and I want to get into all of it . But the young man assaulted me . He grabbed me and I thought I'd handled it . I told him to leave me alone and he left me . He did leave me alone . So I thought I'd a little meltdown , a little PTSD , because I am a survivor of domestic violence .
Speaker 1It triggered something in me . So it triggered something in me that man had never done anything to me before in the past no , but another man had . So , with that being the case , that triggered my feelings and I was having a very hard time going to work and so I had to write that up and I felt I was treated as a victim again because , well , why are you just now doing this , you know , and it took a long , you know , and I couldn't . I could tell all the details , but I couldn't tell you today , you know , and I couldn't . I could tell him all the details , but I couldn't tell you the day . It's like my mind had , my mind had blocked a lot of stuff out . Yet my students remembered , because the young man went into the classroom after me , after me , didn't realize I had class , didn't realize I had class .
Speaker 1So he was pursuing you into the classroom . He pursued me into the classroom after I broke away from him . He did moved me into the classroom after I broke away from him . He did , but , needless to say , I was told they couldn't find the footage . All those cameras , they couldn't find the footage . They did a short investigation , it was over and I said well , it's over just like that . Yeah , well now , mind you , the young man didn't speak to me after I didn't speak to him , but still , I'm having a hard time , even working in the building . I'm having a hard time . So they told me I was welcome to leave and go to another school if I needed to . What about my son ? My son's going to be a senior and he knows this man assaulted me . I'd like to be with my son . Oh , he'd go to another school too . Wow , so I've been here 20 years .
Speaker 1So I went into spring , spring break , after I've given 20 years to the school system , being told , well , I could just , you know , go wherever I want to . If that's the case , I started not to even sign my contract . But but so I prayed , and this is where you have to decide what is best for you . What ? Because I was not going to come back , but I had to talk with my family , my son , my daughters what's best for our family , what was best for me for the other children that I teach ? And I got myself together . I said hold on for a minute . Let me not forget who I am and what my rights are . Let me sit up a little bit so I can talk to you about this . Let me not forget who I am and get myself together . What my rights are , know what your rights are , seek legal counsel , research , investigate so I found out what research investigate . So I found out what my rights were . Don't wait for your employer to tell you what your rights are .
Speaker 1You see , I had a momentary lapse and we all go have those sometimes because I was not strong at that moment . For about a good couple of weeks I wasn't strong . I wasn't strong at all , but you know what I got myself right . Of weeks I wasn't strong . I wasn't strong at all , but you know what I got myself right . On back , I got myself together and started thinking thank you , lord , I sure did , got myself right together and got my research done and I found my and found , got my legal rights in and what I was able to do . And we had another and there wound up being another investigation and they were able to move the young man to another school when I wouldn't have to look at him . Now I want to , for the record , say I wasn't going to put anybody in jail . I want the man to keep his hands off me and stay away from me , and that's what I wanted and that's what we got . Yeah , but now , if need be , I know what my rights were .
Speaker 2One . I want to say thank you for being vulnerable and sharing your . You know it's a . It's a very meaningful , deep , painful experience and we don't we don't typically share , we don't typically hear people willing to share that side of what happens , the darker side of not being supported , the darker side of what happens in these very close proximity spaces , the darker side of being triggered by a previous event , like all of that , is so both vulnerable and I know someone will be encouraged by the fact that you found yourself . Let me go .
Speaker 1I hope so , I pray that , because you know if I can help somebody , if I can help somebody , then my living has not been in vain .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1It's not been in vain .
Speaker 2And I think that's one of a really great takeaway of like don't forget who you are , don't forget who you are , don't forget what your rights are . And if you don't know what your rights are , go find out . And it's best to know them before you get in the situation . But even if you can't know in that moment , going to find it afterwards is , I think , is really , really . I guess the question I have for you now , anne , is how do how do you choose to start back again in the fall ? Like what ? What conscious choice are you making ?
Speaker 2Knowing that you weren't supported , knowing that you had to create accountability where it didn't exist ? Like , if I think of like all of the like my boss sucks . Situations like this for me is like deep . This is like . This isn't just like interpersonal crisis . This is I was physically assaulted , I had every right to press charges , have a trial , whatever that was right , and knowing that you didn't have the support , knowing that you were in the right , knowing that there is a shadow of even inappropriateness between the coincidence of like y'all ain't do my paycheck right to now , y'all not gonna look at my situation right like coincidental .
Speaker 2I ain't gonna say it's causality , but it is a big coincidence , right , right . How do you choose now ? What are you choosing this fall ? What are you choosing as you enter into this , next year ? What are you choosing and how you show up based on all of that ? Because a lot of people I know as women , some of us , can't get over stuff like that . Some of us are like you know what . We just weigh down . We get to the point where we feel so low or so selfless
Finding Strength and Moving Forward
Speaker 2and all of the things . How are you choosing differently ?
Speaker 1Triumph , triumph . I'm walking in like a queen , do you hear me ? Because I have battled . I have battled . I feel like I've come through the battle and my armor is strong . I'm thankful . I am so thankful and I feel stronger than ever .
Speaker 1And sometimes I guess you have to go through things to to better appreciate things and I appreciate myself . I appreciate myself so much more now I do . I have never been so much more proud of myself as a strong woman . I never have . I never have , because I can't believe , because I'm going to be honest with you , first of all , going through domestic violence and going through and dealing with that and then thinking you've healed , then to be triggered again and then to still go and as a single parent , having to feel like I'm fighting my employer , my livelihood , and knowing I'm right oh , and I'm not saying I want to have to be in a struggle by any means , I don't but to know that I feel that God was on my side because I had I had right was on my side and I was going to fight tooth and nail .
Speaker 2Look , it's like that and I wasn't asking for a lot .
Speaker 1How can you ? I wasn't even asking for a lot . Just move the young man to another location , move him to another location and thank God , he's gone Another location . And you know what ? Now he's their liability . He's their liability . You've been told what he did .
Speaker 2He's their liability now , which is kind of a theme if you think about it . Wow , think about that .
Speaker 1Wow , Wow . Can you imagine that ? Can you imagine that ? Wow . So what I want , what I want to take away , is know your rights , Everything that you read and everything that they expect you to do . Make sure you read everything . Make sure you everything you have to sign , Make sure you read everything . Make sure you , well , everything you have to sign , make sure you read it .
Speaker 1Go on there and do your job , but do what you can , but make sure that you understand your classroom culture and love your kids . Do it for your passion of taking care of these kids , because you can't get everything done . There's no way in the world that everything is going to be done . No way in the world . Don't let even it doesn't bother me . I'll shake my head and say , okay , I'll do the best I can . When 345 comes , hey , it is what it is , I've done the best I could do . But you know what ? I'm going to make sure these kids have what they need . And if it's not in their curriculum A , these are seniors trying to graduate . They still need to get a college application done . They have to get a scholarship done . We're going to get some stuff done , so we're going to try to find some time for that . So you know what ? A we'll do the best we can . The world is not going to end .
Speaker 2I love it . I love it , the world is not going to end .
Speaker 1It's not going to end . I love it . The world is not going to end . Go ahead . You want to finish ? Oh , I'm sorry , but I also want to add but the way they hold , the way our employers try to hold us accountable for professionalism , hold them accountable too , and for every , oh my goodness , for every procedure that they say they're going to follow , for every policy they're going to work on . Oh yeah , make sure that when you have an issue , they follow that doggone policy as well , that procedure . Make sure you understand that too . Read the fine print .
Speaker 2I fully agree with you . I fully agree with you and I tell people all the time go find your handbook , go find your policies and procedures . And in the age of AI , I don't know , it's not a good answer , it's not an acceptable answer , not when you can put the PDF into your chat of choice , right , and then ask it based on the situation . What can I not do with the information ? Don't be lazy .
Speaker 1I do want , oh if I can , natalie , also make sure that you find your union representative and make sure that you befriend your union representative , know your resources and do not be afraid , when you have an issue , to take your union representative with you to your human resource meeting with your supervisors and if there's a problem , then they have the problem . That's your right . That is your right . It's just amazing how , how administration will sometimes you know schedule meetings for you know and changing meetings at the last minute . It's really amazing how they do that .
Speaker 1But I'm going to tell you all , so many employees are afraid to reach out to their union representatives , their DEA representatives , or the DEA or their NEA , it doesn't matter but they're afraid because they're afraid that they're going to get in trouble with the superintendent or the school board members who cares ? That's your right to have someone there and when you're in the middle of a crisis , you need somebody with a level head to take notes for you , with a level head , to be your witness , because they might be the ones who are going to have your back and have a lawyer for you . So please make sure you have somebody there with you . Please make sure , because when you're in a crisis , your employer doesn't have your back . Just being honest with you have your own back , please do . I beg you all to have that .
Speaker 2So it's interesting , like the HR person in me is like , but you don't need the union , and then , like the recovering non-HR person is like , get your union . My dad , having been the shop steward at Teamsters , local 830 , it's important to have an advocate when you can't advocate for whatever that looks like Right , especially someone who knows the system , because oftentimes we work inside a system and because you're a subset of the greater system , you don't know the entire system . You know your classroom , you might know some of the other ancillary support systems around you , but you don't know the overarching system . That's all the more reason to phone a friend , to call in a resource to make sure you have more than you do at the table when you're having the conversation , because it's unfortunate to say , but you can't assume that the other party is going to operate in good faith . They're going to operate in their best interest and with that in mind , it's important to have someone to help level the playing field of that interest .
Speaker 1Right
Advice for Teachers and Students
Speaker 1.
Speaker 2So , we're a little bit out of time , but I do want to have this conversation because I've had it with everyone about parents . We've talked about the administration , we talked about kind of your , your , your next level leader , talk to me about parents being the bad boss Like . What situations have you had where you're like man ? I wish these parents would do different and be different , because it would make my job easier well , I've never had a problem .
Speaker 1Parents tell you the truth um , they've always been supportive . I've never had a problem . Parents have always been supportive how ?
Speaker 2how is being educated by Ms Anderson , different than a lot of other teachers that you've been around ? Because I think , listening I know some of your stories , knowing some of the things that you say to kids , I was like you know , but it works for you it works .
Speaker 1Well , I tell them when they come into my classroom , they are my children , they're my children and I would not tell them anything that I wouldn't tell my own children . And I have 35 year old children running around this town hey how you doing , hey how you doing . They'll stop and hug me . I'm seeing the kids and everything , but when they are my children in the classroom , they're my children forever . And so they know that when I argue with them , sometimes I argue with them . You know I lay them out . Sometimes you know we go back and forth a little bit , but they know that I do that with love . I'm the same every day . I'm the same , the same . They know I'm going to say it . They know I'm going to say I'm consistent . That's the word . I am consistent .
Speaker 2And you have no problem embarrassing people if you meet them .
Speaker 1No problem at all . But look , they give it to me too now , with love . They give it to me too now we , you know , we , we back and forth . Sometimes we are back and forth a little , a little bit now I love that . I do enjoy , I really enjoy having that relationship with them . I really do with them .
Speaker 2I really do . What , as you , you know , 20 plus years in let's just assume you're going to , you know , retire in another 20 years , whatever the number is , I know it's probably more like 10 , but when you retire , what's one thing you want people , your students , your peers , what's the thing you want them to say about you and what they've learned about you , learned from you , as an educator .
Speaker 1That I love each and every one of my students , love each and every one of them . They know it , they do , they do .
Speaker 2Any final thoughts , Ann , as we wrap up our session today .
Speaker 1Well , I just want to thank you very much for having me and for allowing me to hopefully inspire these new teachers coming in . And please , new teachers , please do not get tired of the bureaucracy . Just go in , you know . Just remember that you have a passion for teaching . Just do what you can do . You are not a superhero . Do what you can do , take care of yourself in all aspects your mental health , your health and know your legal rights at all times and speak up for yourself politely . Speak up for yourself politely .
Speaker 2Thanks , Sam . Thanks so much for your time . I appreciate you .
Speaker 1Thank you so much , Natalie .
Speaker 2Today's episode is brought to you by Natalie Parker Enterprises , where we shape the future and unlock potential by helping organizations and people work together to do good work . Find out more at TheNatalieParkercom , or , if you'd like to be a sponsor , email us at info at TheNatalieParkercom .
