So Your Boss Sucks, Now What?
Bad bosses happen to good people. Join entrepreneur, corporate trailblazer-turned-business strategist, and podcast host Natalie Parker as she unpacks real-life stories of tough leaders and toxic work environments. With Natalie’s expertise in navigating corporate chaos and building strategies for success, this podcast offers practical advice and actionable insights to help you turn workplace challenges into opportunities for growth. Whether you’re dealing with micromanagers, toxic cultures, or just plain bad vibes, this is your go-to guide for taking control, thriving, and proving that when your boss sucks, your success doesn’t have to.
So Your Boss Sucks, Now What?
S3 E8 Cellular Success: How to Thrive When Your Boss Doesn't Get You (Part 2)
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PART 2
"Purpose doesn't mean ease. It means endurance." These powerful words from Dr. Mariska Adams-Cadogon perfectly capture the essence of this deeply moving conversation about professional resilience, authentic leadership, and finding your way through challenging workplace dynamics.
Dr. Cadogon takes us on an extraordinary journey through her transition from chiropractor to educator, revealing how she became a fierce advocate for Black and Brown students while navigating environments where her methods and successes were often questioned. With remarkable candor, she describes experiences where colleagues attempted to undermine her—even accusing her of cheating when her students performed well—and shares the wisdom she's gained about maintaining authenticity without becoming bitter.
The conversation takes a profound turn as Dr. Cadogon opens up about her personal health battles, including a breast cancer diagnosis and recent medical challenges that required FMLA leave. Rather than viewing these obstacles as setbacks, she frames them as necessary parts of her journey: "Anything I go through, I'm going through for someone else, so they can see the process and come out victoriously." Her visualization techniques for seeing herself beyond current difficulties offer powerful tools for anyone facing adversity.
Perhaps most compelling is Dr. Cadogon biological metaphor for toxic workplace dynamics: "You cannot have dead tissue adjacent to living tissue without causing harm." This insight provides a framework for understanding when to persist through challenges and when removal from harmful environments becomes necessary for survival and growth.
As she reflects on her formative years at Bennett College and looks toward future projects, including a book on building self-confidence Dr. Cadogon emphasizes the importance of pursuing joy and finding balance. Her philosophy—"Weebles wobble but they don't fall down"—encapsulates the resilience that has carried her through professional challenges, health crises, and personal growth.
Have you found yourself questioning whether to stay in a difficult workplace situation? Are you struggling to maintain your authentic self while navigating professional challenges? This episode offers wisdom, encouragement, and practical insights for anyone seeking to thrive rather than merely survive in their career journey.
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Introduction to Dr. Mariska Adams-Kadogan
Speaker 1Hey , it's Natalie Parker of . So your Boss Sucks . Now what ? And welcome to part two of my conversation with Dr Mariska Adams-Kadogan . In our last episode , we talked about how she moved from chiropractor to teacher and some of the experiences she's had . In this episode , she's going to talk about the wisdom she's gotten from her experiences , and you're going to want to listen to her explanation as to why purpose doesn't mean ease . It means endurance . Let's take a listen .
Speaker 2And I don't think it crosses their mind that you were so good at cogging in the spot where you were that they didn't want to move you because they didn't know how to replace you .
Speaker 1We call that in America we call that blockers right manager , you know , keeps you in space because they can't afford to forego the work getting done , the pain of transition or even doing their work for them or , worse off , the bonus that they get for your performance . It happens , yeah , corporate , I'm sure that is so true . Yeah , it happened , yeah , corporate , I'm sure that is so true . Yeah , listen , because you do good , I get credit for it and I get more of an incentive than you do for managing and encouraging your goodness .
Speaker 2And at the time I left my department . When it came to those SOLs and such , my department had the highest percentage pass rate . So it wasn't where we wanted it to be , but it was higher than everybody else of all the four content areas . So why would you shake that boat ? So I get it ? Rock the boat , but I had to jump ship . Look at all those metaphors . So I was just saying there's lots of black and brown boys that go to these schools , but the staff doesn't reflect it . So I was a welcomed addition , so that the boys really did , just by walking past me , feel just a little relief to see somebody who reminds you of home or you know , somebody who is going to pull you aside and say what the hell ?
Speaker 1are you doing ? Yeah , and that sees them right . That it's not a person who you're pouring into that . Somebody's that advocating for them .
Speaker 2Yes , and I'm a fierce advocate . Fierce advocate , um , because , um , it's required . Um , sometimes , when adults are offended , drained , tired , haggard , jaded , all those things they don't see the side of a thing that meant no harm . They don't see the side of the thing that didn't know better . They don't see the side of the thing that was not thinking of how it could so adversely affect the entire project or situation . Because there are some people who do not see kids as people and there are some who don't understand that being under 18 does not make you a child in the truest sense of the word . 12-year-olds , 11-year-olds that have to put five-year-olds and seven-year-olds on the bus and comb their hair and make their breakfast or fix the noodles , get them off the bus , iron their clothes , and so I have students who spend 6 am to 7.30 being mama , and at 7.47 , you want them to be a child . You have to teach the kids in front of you .
Speaker 2Hargrave was very much like that , because the diversity was not about the look of them , it wasn't even about how much money they had , who had a scholarship . It's because every child in front of you is a special needs child . Every kid has a special need . So just because someone's diagnosed , that doesn't end your population of special needs . Every person has particular needs as well and you have to know that . Your foundation can be sure , but you have to be able to pivot . You have to be able to change up , to negotiate even with yourself what's right and wrong and overall , at the end of a day , I would say to a teacher forgive yourself and forgive them and start over tomorrow . Every day you're a brand new painting to me , and you're especially brand new when I meet you for the first day . I don't go back and look at your records . I don't know why you're here . I don't look in your file and see what school you were removed from , why you were removed . You're a brand new penny to me , baby . So until you show me disrespect , I have no idea .
Speaker 2And I think that's why , over my career , I've been able to say what he did , what I never had him do , that , which goes back to that showing up thing . You know you show up . You know this bright and shiny , optimistic , you know stand and deliver type person . But it's because I believe in brand new days , brand new years , brand new kids , and at Hargrave they were brand new and they really needed somebody that was going to be the softer side , the mom and auntie , because you have a military portion and then you have classrooms where you do see some women and there were a few who had a little bit of a softer side , but there were some that just hid behind the military aspect because it made it an easier place to teach in some ways , because any behavior problem you could just call the military department and have them come get the kid .
Speaker 2Yeah , so , and that was a space where I really did experience that issue , with someone questioning my magic . I even had a teacher there behind the scenes accusing me of cheating with kids who she sent to me to take tests for separate space and because they did well on the test , she said that I was taking the test for them . She did not understand or choose to ask about the magic . Part of the magic was having a child in a space where the atmosphere believed they could , yeah , and also encourage them to think and draw from within and remember in ways that drew on their senses . And I found out happenstance that she was doing that
Advocating for Black and Brown Boys
Speaker 2she had sent two kids to me to take tests on a Thursday and on the Monday when the boys showed back up to her class , she gave them the test again and gave them the lower grade , because if they got a B on Thursday and a D on Monday , then the D must be the real grade .
Speaker 1So they could not have passed on their own , because I didn't teach them .
Speaker 2Right , and what was so amazing to me is that I really did believe that there was a racial component , and this is with this particular person , yeah , so nobody take from this that Hargrave is racist . That is not what I'm saying .
Speaker 2I even had one of the presidents ask me and I said no , sir , I think that we have individuals with bias and we set out to attend to that , but I couldn't believe it , because this person also is one that I would consider a population that might need an allied advocate . A young lady who looked very much like someone who wanted to transition to a boy , who dressed in a very masculine way , and I thought surely this is a person who understands the need for openness and trust and advocacy . And she was behind the scenes , poisoning the water against me as if I was a cheat . I had been there before she was and have been in education in some sort as long as she's been alive . So those kinds of things that I experienced in my career , where what I do that benefits the children , can be drawn into question . Because I have found out that a lot of what I am in education cannot be taught . I can't teach somebody else to do it . I can encourage them to do it , I can model doing it , but a lot of what I do and who I am in education is just cellular . It's just who I am .
Speaker 2I had a big competition this year 144 students , 12 teams of 12 in a big venue that we have here the Institute for Advanced Learning and Research . We have here the institute for advanced learning and research . All the kids wore white coats and we had um , several competitions . One was um was for them to be involved in um , like a quiz show type of activity . Another one was um , except for ranius lab activity . They had no idea what they were coming into and their team had to do a lab . And then um , I had students who were . They all took this test , you know , and so it was a huge event .
Speaker 2We had lunch together in this grand hall . A lot of the bigger , the higher ups came and a funny thing happened . So I went to the microphone because we were calling tables to do things , I believe , and I said to the microphone I need everyone to turn your volume down by 25% . I did like this and the room went oh , that's so great , let's try another 25 . And the room went down . The superintendent was there . There's chiefs of things in the room . So later one of the chiefs in the hallway she's oh , such a great event , she's like you went up there and told them to be quiet and they were quiet . It was so funny . When she said it to me , I said well , girl , I say I stand in my shoes and I say it is . Then that's what it is , you know . So that's a piece of me .
Speaker 1That you can't teach somebody to be that , yeah right you can't teach somebody to do that you have to have the presence and the gravitas to be able to do it yeah and believe that they're going to do it right and have a face .
Speaker 2You know that you can make . That'll sit a six foot five 250 pound football playing senior down without saying a word . Some of those things you can't teach a person to do . You can just model them . So yeah , I just I believe that in all my spaces .
Speaker 1I'm going to come in contact with that , but what I'm learning ?
Speaker 2at this ripe old age of 47.75 , is that I'm just going to have to be okay with that response , when I know what I'm doing is the right thing for the situation , when I know what I'm doing is necessary and that it benefits those who I'm serving . And so if I have , you know , have a person like the girl at Hargrave that you know tried to poison people against me , you know , if that happens , then I need to no longer be surprised . I have clutched my pearls so many times I do believe now I have broken the string . I can no longer be surprised . You mean you think I'm you mean you're mad because I I'm no longer be surprised . You mean you think I'm you mean you're mad because I , I'm no longer surprised . And so expecting those kinds of responses ?
Speaker 1um , it's just what it is I mean . So in this whole conversation we've heard people call you disloyal , a liar , a cheat . You've gone through the amusement park of roller coasters as it relates to people questioning your character , and yet you still have the most optimistic demeanor . I want to talk about something personal , because not only have you had your mother be sick , but you yourself have had your own . You yourself have had your own challenges from a health perspective .
Speaker 1Talk to talk to us about how you're able to keep your values , your beliefs , your faith amongst dealing with , because dealing with your health challenges and dealing with work challenges at the same time is a whole nother you know gumbo of emotional management . Talk to us about that .
Speaker 2Wow . So I am actually coming to a close on a period of FMLA currently , because I became ill at the beginning of this year in a way that I
Every Child Has Special Needs
Speaker 2was not understanding . Let me say that in a lot of ways , I do believe that stress can take you down , and I think that I had gotten in such a stressful place that I ended up having to take time off because my body told the story . I sit currently talking to you with my entire right leg , from my flank all the way to my toes , numb Very strange sensation , and in hindsight it seems as if I may have had a transient ischemic attack , which is what people call a mini stroke .
Speaker 2I might've had a mini stroke which gave me that situation , and in the midst of nursing that symptom and trying to figure out what had happened , why that was happening , I actually also developed what I thought was the second coming of COVID . I don't know . I was so sick and so I was just knocked down , even though I was pushing and pressing . So from January till March that competition was in March by the end of March is when that second coming of COVID came on , or whatever that was , and I was just super ill , to the point that I couldn't even lift my right arm at one point .
Speaker 2And so there has been a lot that has happened this year health-wise that has challenged me In 2020 , though I ended up having a hysterectomy in 2020 . I mentioned that before because it was March 19 , 2020 . I was the last so-called elective surgery done at Silva Hospital in Danville , had to be there by myself and , um , my hysterectomy was like one for the books , because when they removed my uterus and all of its little friends , all the little fibroid babies in there , it was 10 pounds . So , um , I had a 10 pound uterus removed from about a nine and a half inch um scar that was cut Like I had a C-section .
Speaker 2I've never birthed any babies and what's crazy about it is that being that heavy . They said that I was about at a five-month pregnancy with that belly and when the uterus came out , it was actually shaped kind of like a baby . I went through a lot of emotional , hormonal things during that time , even waking up out of my sleep looking for the baby . Like I woke up thinking that I was looking for the baby . Wow , um , and with specific tasks , I gotta feed the baby . There was no baby . Oh , let's check on the baby you know like wait up you know and I would say you don't have a baby .
Speaker 2So , since school had closed down for the pandemic , I did not have to report to work after that , which was a good thing , because it actually opened itself up and I got this infection and had to spend about 12 weeks going back and forth to a wound care center and having nurses come to my house in that time In the weeks right before I got the new job , in that time in the weeks right before I got the new job . But um , but yeah . So that put me on estrogen and a year later I was diagnosed with breast cancer . So it is my belief that the extra estrogen , the synthetic estrogen , is what put me in that position , because I ended up with estrogen dependent invasive ductal carcinoma , so breast cancer in my right breast .
Speaker 2I actually went to the doctor out of you know , pure vanity . Really I was being vain . So I didn't want to go to my appointment for the , for my mammogram , because I'd had one the year before . But I had started a weight loss journey in February of 2020 . And I wanted to have it on record that I lost 15 pounds , so I went to the doctor so they could put that official weight in my chart . Listen , let the record show it that I've been working on this . But they called me back because they saw some shadows , wanted me to have more images . I thought it wasn't going to be anything and so I went right back and ended up being diagnosed in April of 2021 with that breast cancer . There was no reason why I should have had it . I had no markers for it and at the time they found two tumors that looked like about blackberry sizes and then a big white area that just looked like like it probably was like little baby cells , like . They couldn't tell what it was . And if I'd had a lumpectomy , the doctor was explaining to me that he was going to take out about 12 ounces anyway . So they were talking about I said that's a cup and a half , like that's a big chunk . I'm like how are you gonna ? I'm the lopsided you know . So I was referred and I ended up getting a double mastectomy . So I got a set of noobs in July of 2021 . So I call them my noobs , so noobs .
Speaker 2So when you talk about being optimistic , I always believed I was going to make to the other side , like this is just something I'm going through and I say to people , anything I go through , I'm going through for someone else , yeah , so that they can see the process come out victoriously . So , and I will say , if God brings it to me to go through me , then it's fine because it's brought to me . There's nothing that I can't get through . But the way I did that in my mind was to imagine myself doing things that could only be done if I had made it . Yeah , years down the line .
Speaker 2I imagine my son , who's at this now , at this time he's 13 . I imagine him driving me in the car . I imagine my nieces , who were at the time barely walking . I imagine them at kindergarten . I imagine them in dance class and recital and I would sit in it in meditation and imagine what I had on . What did it smell like , what did it look like , what was I saying ?
Speaker 2I would imagine myself laughing with my neighbors in the auditorium or say wait , wait , wait . You know , don't slam on the brakes like that , you know . Just really imagine the whole scenario . See yourself past it and you don't have to do it to that degree , but you can see yourself past any ugly thing that's happening . See yourself tomorrow , see yourself next week , see yourself in the weekend and really sit with that , and you , while people are talking about things that don't make sense but I love wearing good shoes I just look at them , entertain myself and meditate on where I would rather be , but you can definitely see yourself beyond the moment and it helps to retain your optimism . But one of the biggest things I think and I almost called you by your grandma nickname , but one of the things I think , and I almost called you by your grandma nickname , but one of the one of the I almost did it , but Natty Poo I was like yeah , she sure did Natty Poo she sure did .
Speaker 1One of the biggest things , natty Miss Executive Lady , that's , that was her thing . Where you going , miss .
Speaker 2Executive Lady when you going , miss , that's the thing when you been . Negative lady when you been at . So yeah , but one of the things that helped me to remain optimistic when people are doing the things that they do that could be very well taken personally is that I concentrate on the why . Why is that your experience ? Why is that your perception ? And I extend that to adults as well as kids . So why do you feel like that ? Who did that to you ?
Speaker 2And there are some times when I will actually say it , I will have to say you know , I'm not them . And the what , what , whoever lied to you , and the what , what . Whoever lied to you , whoever cheated you , whoever made you not believe that impossible things are possible . It wasn't me . So if we could start again , I really appreciate it , because I feel like I'm coming in just with a very loaded situation and I really don't know how to address it because I wasn't there . So can we start again ?
Speaker 2And it's not that I don't feel pain or I'm not hurt or that I don't get nervous , because I remember , after the double mastectomy , sitting at the end of my bed , I had my husband to bring a chair into the room . That was that of a fancy dining table type chair because I couldn't sit up on my own , but I needed to be able to sit up so that my muscles wouldn't weaken . And I sat at the edge of that bed and I was thinking about how I had to have that chair to sit there and my face just went with tears and I could cry thinking about it . Man , I could cry thinking about it . And um , my auntie had called me and she said I know you're feeling mighty bad . She said , but I'm going to tell you about this little song that I sing when I feel bad and I just keep singing it until I feel better . I just keep keep singing it till I feel better . And she's like so if you start feeling real bad , just start singing it . At first you're not going to be able to really get through it too well , but just sing it again .
Speaker 2And so I'm sitting there at the end of the bed and I'm just rocking and singing , and rocking and singing , and my face is just wet and I start to pray and say , god , I'm outside of my depth , I've done everything I can do . There's nothing left for me . My human power is done . So I really need you to come on in and hold me up . I need you to be a pillar at my back and I need you to help me to get through this . I have been cut on my body 65% around my circumference , for my mathy people . So the scar goes all the way to about four inches from my spine on one side and about six inches from my spine on the other side . I had them take every bit of cellular material from my breasts bit of cellular material for my breasts and replace them with implants on the bright side which sit up by themselves . And I have to wear no bra ever . So that's a beautiful thing .
Speaker 1It's a testament .
Speaker 2Yeah , on the bright side there's silver lining in every cloud . So you know , going to from a person with you know dents and black marks on my shoulders to sitting here right now actually my shoulders out and they sit up by themselves . So you have to go through sometimes to get to the good stuff . But I was just praying and singing , and praying and singing , and when you get to the end of yourself , I would say that space and time is a requirement sometimes . I would say that space and time is a requirement sometimes Because many of us in the professional sectors whether it be business or education or medicine , whatever it is we are achievers and so we have conditioned ourselves to be able to find a way out of things , to get finished with it sooner .
Speaker 2We don't sit in things , we observe them , we examine them , we solve them . There is no solution in my humanness that could have healed that 50 inch scar . There was nothing else to do except trust . Now , to this very day , I talk to my cells in the way that I'm commanding the mountain to be thou removed . Can you talk ?
Speaker 2to your cells , all the cells in your body , the CLLS , because cells , all the cells , in your body , the CLLS , because I need all the cells
When Others Question Your Magic
Speaker 2to do what they're supposed to , to function in the way they were designed to function . I need them to live as long as they are supposed to live and die when they're supposed to die Amen . Because cancer is simply an overgrowth of cells that either don't know that it was time to die or an overgrowth that kept developing really fast and never learned their job . So you can have tumors of immature cells that don't work well and by taking up space , they don't let the other cells do the job that they can do , because they're just immature and taking up space . And then you got the other ones that should have died , should have left , should have retired , should have moved on , but they're taking up space . So the people , the cells , the people who could do the work can't do it .
Speaker 1Listen , let me tell you something . I was going there , a few weren't . That is an entire analogy to organizations , in and of itself right , like you've taken up space and you're not ready for it , and you over here , you need to be wheeled out before you kill the organization . Yes , and God knows , I tell this to a lot of my preacher friends like a lot of churches , specifically older institutions , have this problem where please don't die in the chair , because when you do , you have complicated the success of everyone here because you didn't move .
Speaker 2In those positions you know , emotionally , spiritually , have been dead for years . And let's not go without saying that you cannot have dead tissue adjacent to living tissue without causing the living tissue harm and rot .
Speaker 1Jesus , say it again to the people in the back .
Speaker 2Okay , if you have dead tissue , dead anything think of a tree falling in the forest you have this dead log laying there . Is there bushy grass growing up under a dead log ? There is not , because everything under that log is designed to operate within death , because everything under that law is designed to operate within death . That's why you can have mushrooms , because mushrooms live off of decomposing material . That's right . That's right . And they grow in darkness . So are you dead material , thinking that because you have a population of followers that you're not leading , people that are following you blindly in the dark and living and getting nutrition off of what's dead ?
Speaker 2and how many we call things a cancer . You know , going back to , we call things a cancer when , when it's not working , when it's causing disease and harm . And you know we're not able to produce because we have either cells that should have died . They did not choose to go through what's called apoptosis . They should have died because we , as scientists , know the lifespan of every kind of cell . A red blood cell lives 120 days and that's it . It has to be replaced , right ? If you don't allow it to be replaced , that's an issue . If you have a bunch of cells growing , being developed , but then they don't get to the point where they can actually carry oxygen , that's called leukemia , what's called , you know ? So we get to a place , you know you got too many white blood cells , not enough mature red blood cells . I mean there's so many things .
Speaker 1It's a very delicate balance of things that happen to make your body work , or the organization work , or your life work .
Speaker 2Exactly , yeah , and so yes , I do talk to myself . I'm here for it and you know , for me it's prayer , because I believe that every word that comes from your mouth is prayer , even in conversation , which is why I monitor my words and I do ask others to monitor theirs if I find it having an effect on me .
Speaker 1So a very small , for instance . I don't tell even my husband , don't forget . I say remember , remember . Yeah , programming and the idea of this positive , positive intent , positive conversation puts you in a form of action rather than a form of reservation . It is really important for us to think in terms of what is the action , rather than what you don't want to do .
Speaker 1I didn't realize this until I had kids , and especially with my kid having , you know , multiple , multiple different things going on neurologically where we had to stop Don't , don't . We couldn't say don't do this because his brain couldn't process it . It's just like well , what do you mean ? Well , I'm doing it already . So what is it like ? So we can say oh , you can do this . Instead Like let's do this . Let's show you the other thing , because I mean don't think about an elephant . The first thing they do is think about an elephant , so true .
Speaker 2And I got to tell you . What's interesting about that is you can look up neurolinguistics , you can look up metaphysics and see that either you talk about the neurology of it all in metaphysics , somebody will tell you the universe does not understand . No , it's just the solid noun . So any qualifier that is negative is not a thing . And so as soon as you say I hope this doesn't happen , I hope this isn't . It's what comes , you're manifesting it . Yeah , manifesting it right out . There the reason why I don't have classroom rules .
Speaker 2I do expectations , and I do the same ones every time with a large umbrella , so that anything a child does that you did not want them to do , you can point back to the expectation that was not followed . I use the same ones every time . I call them Dr C's B's . We will be appropriate , we will be focused , we will be respectful , we will be prepared , and the same I can expect from them , they can expect from me . So anything that they do , I don't have to say no , throwing objects in class . They throw us . Oh , that is not appropriate here . This is not the football field . We don't throw things in science lab . Was that appropriate ? No , ma'am , are you focused on your project or are you playing ? Because you know we're focused in here , right ? So you want to put out there what you want in all instances , even with adults , you know .
Speaker 2And when I , when I say things out loud , you know I want to say the things that lend to my health and wholeness , and so sometimes in the mirror , I'll say you know , I'm like all right in there , guys , all three trillion of you , I want you to do your work , do what you're supposed to do , because you are appreciated , and when the time comes for you to let go , I want you to release and know that you are appreciated . You have done the deeds that you were designed to do . I thank you so much . You can go because everybody knows that when you've had cancer one time , there is a chance that you would have cancer again . As a matter of fact , I was given a 4% chance after chemo and everything I did . 4% chance that I would have micrometastases that they can't see and that there could be cells just like the ones that were in my breast , cells just like the ones that were in my breast in my bone , liver or lungs , and so .
Speaker 1I speak to them and say thank you for your service .
Speaker 1You can go now , but I think that's so powerful because it's important that we know how to let go of things , both from a working perspective , for the situations that's not serving us , from a relationship perspective , knowing when things are done there's a really good book by Henry Cloud , dr and the emotions that we have need to come to an end where we're not perpetuating and reliving and rehearsing the emotions of the thing , because more often than not , the motions of the thing will usurp the actual thing .
Speaker 1That happened . I said it a while back , but we spend time being mad at situations that are more like a hangnail , but we treat it like a hernia right . But now that you've rehearsed it , it has become this lump in your back that's got you looking like Quasimodo , because it was really just a hangnail . But you've rehearsed so much that now it's the same thing that is in your face and it's not the thing that is in your face . Our ability to let things go is part , I believe , of the ability to receive joy , because if you're holding on to anger , if you're holding on to fear , if you're holding on to doubt , if you're holding on to being afraid of what the boss will say to you or being rejected right , the fear of being rejected . If we're holding on to that , then you can't receive the goodness that god has for you .
Speaker 2You can't receive the things that are waiting for you because you're too busy holding on , I love and and to give another metaphor , that'll take us down to a place where it is like , applicable to like anybody who listens to this . If you think about being prepared to fight and you're like right , so you're ready , you're prepared to fight . Right , so you're ready , you're prepared to fight , you're in that position , right . And so , just as you said , like , if we're like this , this is like this , you know you can't receive anything With your hands balled up . Yeah , so , cause you're , you're ready , you know . But what if you just say let me experience this for what it is , I'm in real time .
Speaker 1At this point , I think we're going to have to make this like a two-parter , but for all the whatever we're gonna have to do to this cause we're on hour two , but I think that it's been valuable information , so you make it a two-parter .
Speaker 2Yeah , because I , you know , as I talked about , you know , being in FMLA right now , I don't even look at it as a boss problem and so you know , as we prep for this , and I'm sure other guests you know , they regard their current situation as being off limits to speak on because they don't want to rock the boat or anybody to hear them say anything negative . Limits to speak on because they don't want to rock the boat or anybody to hear them say anything negative . But I had thought about it in a way of saying I don't want to talk about a bad boss in my current situation . My current position . What I have learned in this time is that every situation that I have experienced , I was there , and actually that's not new for me , because when I worked at the National Park Service , as I went through chiropractic school in around 2003 , 2004-ish , there was a tour I gave that was the Elizabeth Cady Stanton Home , and then I had Susan B Anthony , these things . I did these tours .
Speaker 2Well , elizabeth Cady Stanton had written an essay , if you will , and overall the end result or the theme of the essay was wherever you have experiences , the constant is you , you were there . You know , mr Brady , a Brady Bunch would say wherever you go , there you are , so you are . You're there been thinking about how my behaviors , how I address situations or go into situations or do my jobs , my work ? How can I manage that in a different way , to preserve myself , to give myself more time to serve , to give myself the ability to reach more people without tearing myself apart ? How can I manage my expectations ? How can I manage my energies ? How can I compartmentalize ? And because what I do is not separate from who I am in a lot of ways , it has been difficult to do A lot of jobs . People will tell you you're not your job , you're not your work .
Speaker 2Well , when you operate like I do , in a way that your work , your jobs , are a part of your spiritual gifts . It is who I am . I am a teacher , I am a healer , I am those things and have seen that in many venues outside of any workplace . So how can I determine when enough is enough ? How much energy do I give ? How do I discipline myself to under promise and over deliver , keeping in mind that lessons will be presented to you time and again
Health Challenges and Personal Resilience
Speaker 2until you learn them ? So the more boss stories you have , the more . I encourage you to do some introspection . What are you drawing ? What is the vibration that allows those things to happen in your life ? The vibration that allows those things to happen in your life , what is the energy that you give or emote that requires that lesson ? And how many times have you experienced the same thing , in a different meat suit , the same attitude , the same troubles , with a different person , in a different venue , a different state ?
Speaker 1Listen , I agree , and I think all of . If you're not learning the lesson , you repeat the lesson Exactly . And I look back over the arc of my career and how many you know situations I've I learned from each leader , even though they weren't the best leader . And one of our desires for the show is to help people realize that you don't have to keep serve and do what you do , and do it well , to the best of your ability , without having to diminish or completely change your personality to do it . And how do you figure out and read the room before you get in it to decide it's whether it's a room you should be in it or not , right ? And how can you be the thermostat rather than the thermometer ? I was . How can you be the thermostat , the atmosphere that creates a new environment ? Because sometimes some , some of us , have the quantum leap assignment . So I'm gonna do an analogy from back in the late 90s . I think they brought it back .
Speaker 1I love it they did . But come in . You know , sam Beckett was sent from the future . He would go back and fix the things in the past and he would never know where he showed up . But he would show up and have to figure out what was his assignment to be able to make the next leap , to try to get home right , and you know what .
Speaker 2He . He didn't know how he looked to others , yeah , for a very long time . So here's this white male getting sent to 1965 . He looks in the mirror . He's an old black man working at a gas station . You know , yeah , that's a good one , primarily because we don't know how people see us right , and so you've got to show up and be the thing that the situation needs .
Speaker 1A lot of times , we're so worried about how people see us . Right you really ? What does the situation require ? What does the situation require , Even though the boss may not like me , even though the boss may be a micromanager , even though the boss may be jealous like okay , I can't answer that , but what does the situation require ? What is the definition of success that aligns with what the organization needs and my values ? Because I don't want to compromise me .
Speaker 1How do you adapt ? Because what's crazy to me is that when you and I were growing up in corporate America or in the working spaces , the average time in a company was somewhere around 10 to 7 to 10 years . That number now is 3.8 . Yes , and it's hard to get depth if you're always jumping in and out of something , because it takes a year to understand an organization . It takes a year to just even understand how it's operating , especially if it's a large . Then it takes a year for you to get your influence to be able to implement stuff . Then it takes a year for you to get your influence to be able to implement stuff Right , and then it takes another year for you to see the outcome of what you've implemented in many of those very you know subject matter Right . So hopping around will allow you to eventually get the incremental bump in pay or whatever , and happy for those who can do it . Allow you to eventually get the incremental bump in pay or whatever , and happy for those who can do it .
Speaker 1But at some time you may plateau out because you haven't learned the lessons of implementation , surviving through it . What have you ? And so it's really our goal to help navigate of like okay , when do you really need to pull the ripcord so that you're not in a toxic situation that's going to deteriorate your own emotional and mental health ? We don't want that . When is it that you just need to kind of suffer out some of the situation , because it's not going to kill you , it's actually going to make you .
Speaker 2Don't let it kill you .
Speaker 2Don't let it kill you , and you know sometimes it's there to get you to make different decisions , listen , to see things differently , because I am not a person who has any give up in me at all , so even taking the time away because I was ill was a discipline for me . To be able to say this is a benefit that is real . I need to do it because I need to find out what is going on with my health and I need to recenter so that I can do this job well and do my life well and those two things switch .
Speaker 1And I would say that I will own this for myself . I'm not going to put it on you being achievers . I find it very hard just to sit still , like I've had to teach myself to like just sit down . It's okay that you're not doing anything . The world is not going to fall . Yes , the dishes are dirty , yes , you need to do the laundry , but you can sit here for for a bit of time and gather yourself and think and reflect . Like that's important too .
Speaker 2It is , and I'm still working on it , even though I'm coming to the end of my time . I'm still working on that stillness , um , because , um , because when we are , you know , all engrossed in something , there are plenty of things that we set aside that we wanted to do and we thought we had time to do it and we didn't . And so then there's those things . Well , now I can work on my thing or whatever . It's something sitting still , but you're still mentally working .
Speaker 2It took me a week and a half to stop spinning like a top . I was just , I mean , I didn't know how wound up I was until I tried to stop and then , really , the introspection and such , you know , came along the way as we were determining what had happened to me , what should I be doing about that , all these kind of things . And you know , even in my therapy , you know , I have a counselor and that has been my counselor ever since UNC Cancer Hospital . So even in talking to my therapist and I suggest everybody needs a therapist and Jesus , okay , don't put it all on the Lord , you know , get yourself a human .
Speaker 1He brought you in this journey . He's there all the time .
Speaker 2So , yeah , talk to a counselor about what's happening with you , because you need to get to the center of your why . I am a little Brown girl who grew up in a rough neighborhood , being picked on for some of the best parts of me , and I was on proving ground for 40 years because I had to prove that who I was and what I did was worthy of admiration or that I was doing the right things , because it was going to benefit me somehow . And I realized just after 40 that that proving ground was a toxic space . I don't owe any explanations . I have nothing to prove and nothing to nothing to to make you let go of your beliefs and your beliefs . My opinion of me is what's important . Your opinion of me is not my business . But I did not understand that . I grew up wanting to prove that I was okay and so , getting into your forties , you have to get in a space that says , no , I don't have anything to prove to people . Am I where I'm supposed to be ? Am I doing what I'm supposed to do ? Am I authentic ? You know , is this space where I need to be ? And whether you're there for one year , two or 25 , make sure that you are doing the things that you were designed to do and living on purpose , in purpose , for purpose , because otherwise you will find yourself in a very , very low space . If you're not doing that Because we can withstand lots and lots of things when we're in purpose Because living in purpose does not mean living easily You're going
Dead Tissue Adjacent to Living Tissue
Speaker 2to have lots of hardships , but the hardships are made worth it because you know you're on assignment and do not mistake your assignment and create something that is not real , because sometimes the assignment is just to be present . I have never worked anywhere until recently that I did not go in knowing who or what group of people or circumstances was my assignment and I prayed that prayer , really starting in 2012 .
Speaker 2After the first year of Alternative Kids , my mom had said to me you wear those children because I took it with me everywhere I went . I had kids who called me because they got locked out of their house because their parents put them on the porch . I had kids who I had to buy groceries for because their mama got put out of the apartment . They live in a hotel . I was the person , because I believed that I was building humans and not teaching students . Yeah , I'm building humans . So I realized that I had taken on quite a lot that first year and , just like recently , I've taken on quite a lot and she has said to me you know you wear them . And so the next year I asked God to show me my assignments , and a silly prayer as it was . I said put a light over their heads , like on touch by an angel .
Speaker 1Oh my gosh , we really had ourselves with our television references .
Speaker 2We are , we are . But I said , put a light over their heads , because in the spaces where I go , whether it's students or adults , everyone will benefit from my presence , but not every person's . My assignment .
Speaker 1Yes , and they don't need the . They don't need the totality of the of they don't . They don't need the whole beam , right , and I don't have to wrestle with it . Right , you can , you can radiate , but if you do have to shine in one certain area , it's important and it's an important analogy .
Speaker 2Well , yeah , I'm like , show me . And so then , once I know who I'm there for , then I know that's the person I have to wrestle with all night till my hip come out of joint , if you will . Ok , come on , and so I'll wrestle with that person . I'm going to chase that person , I'm going to check on them and call them show up at the house . I'm going to go to church , watch them play drums and talk to their pastor about how they're doing in school . You know there's a , that's my assignment . I'm here for you , and so the others will benefit , and that took a lot of weight off of me .
Speaker 2The newest transition is that I am dealing with something that is like district wide , so it's much more difficult to be able to visually see the assignments . But I definitely have had to make a transition into what it means to serve , and so we have to be sure that we are being laser beam focused so that our efficacy is not diminished yeah , diminished . You know I want to be little , it's not . It's not diminished by this broad stroke of trying to be everything to everybody .
Speaker 1Sniper rifle rather than shotgun .
Speaker 2Lord , we're shooting people now .
Speaker 1Yeah , we sprays and it hits whatever .
Speaker 2You might want to cut that out , but there are people who are shooting folks , I don't endorse guns , I just play violent video games . Minnesota Strong .
Speaker 1So , Rich , I think a really good place for us to land as we wrap up this conversation is . You just celebrated 25 years having graduated from the illustrious Bennett College of Greensboro , North Carolina .
Speaker 2I did . Oh , my God , I love being a bell . Yes , ma'am , so it's my silver anniversary .
Speaker 1You're a silver bell , honey . I'm not there yet . I'm close , not a couple years left . Just a couple , just a couple . I want you to think about the things that you've learned post-Bennett and what are just a few values that shows up even now in your life as you kind of look back of that time on . You know , on Market Street no well , washington , I got it all wrong . It's not Market Street . It was close to Market Street , but all that time ago .
Speaker 2Yes , right East Market . Well , I don't want you to tell yourself you might have spent some time over there . No , I didn't , don't do that .
Speaker 1Don't do that , Reframing the question . What are some of the things that you value having you know , 25 years in the rear of your time , finishing your time on 900 East Washington Street in Graysboro ?
Speaker 2First and foremost , I want to really show gratitude for Bennett College , because Bennett College is one of many reasons why I show up the way I do , why I show up the way I do . No one can diminish what I know about me , what I know about God , what I know about possibilities based on my time there . A lot of my gifts were fed at Bennett College , so I had them when I got there , but a lot of them were truly fed . I have the blessing and the curse of being a very gifted person and I can say that just in the last year or so , without feeling like I was being a braggart , I state facts . There are lots and lots of things that I can do , but I say it's a blessing and a curse because , number one , you have to control the neurodivergence and decide what you're going to concentrate on . And then you have to also be in spaces where your giftedness is viewed as a weapon , where your willingness to contribute is viewed as a weapon and not as a pure , pure hearted offering of yourself . But Bennett College gave me that that I can be in any room . My phrase that I use is I can go from the outhouse to the White House and , in all spaces , be comfortable . I attribute that to Bennett .
Speaker 2Bennett College in the 90s , late 90s , when I was there , had about 725 students , and among those 725 students were women from everywhere , many , many states , many , many countries , every socioeconomic group , every skin tone , speaking multiple languages , and it was such a space of acceptance in a lot of ways and we admired one another . So instead of us being jealous of each other's gifts , we admired them . We told each other how awesome we were . You know , we had prolific speakers at the age of 18 . We had operatic singers at the age of 18 . Age of 18 . Fashion designers I mean so many gifts that we just saw the benefit of your gift lending to my gift . And if I can do your hair , then you can do my nails . If you can fix my dress , I can edit your history paper .
Speaker 1The bartering system for sure and edit your history paper the bartering system for sure .
Speaker 2I just can think of so many . I want to call out one of our Bell sisters who complimented me on something one time and she probably doesn't even remember Kenya Samuels . So Kenya was
Bennett College and Embracing Gifts
Speaker 2in my dorm cone hall at the time and a lot of the students did not like history class , but when I read the books I had a way of retelling the reading as if it was real people in the story . And I would be telling them and I'd be like girl , and then the king had a nerve , you know , telling them the story and be like , and don't you know , his cousin . You know . So I'm telling the story like that , and they just thought it was the funniest thing . So you know , and it made them want to read it more and they started to read it in a way that was more relational , you know , like the relationships , the real humans and how we can make those humans look and feel like people that we know . And she just thought that was the greatest thing . We helped each other and loved each other in a way that I know I would not have gotten any other place in this whole world .
Speaker 2I have circles of friends that I have had now for more than 25 years at this point , because when I came to Middletown I had to come in the summertime and myself and Darlene Simmons we were the Mark Scholars . I got a scholarship . Darlene was from the Gullah Gullah area islands , st Helena Island , south Carolina , beaufort , and here I was from Danville , virginia , and at the time my school district was like tops of Virginia and I came in and having all these AP classes and all this stuff and having experienced so many things in high school and Darlene was for me a very balancing factor because I was so hell bent on achieving , achieving , achieving , you had to get it done . That summer Darlene and I took the capstone English class , english 103 to health class , and we took Calgate Like we took heavy classes in summertime and um , and got those done . But Darlene was just like this balance for me . I loved her so much because she had no sense of embarrassment whatsoever , like whatever she was , what she was , um , you know , and so funny .
Speaker 2One time she had fixed her hair and she probably was like , why are you telling the story ? I , she had used a curling iron but she was doing it wrong and it had this crazy bend on it . I was like , well , you're supposed to turn it where the barrel goes like . So I was teaching how to use a curling iron . But so she had gotten the curling iron down , but she only fixed these two pieces and the back . She just took a brush , just brushed it real straight because it was kind of cut at her neck .
Speaker 2So she just so I said , don't even what about the back of your head ? And she was like , well , when I walk up , you ain't looking at nothing but the front . The back ain't none of my business , like that , I can't see the back . So just a balancing force , you know , and so many people were that there . And it also gave me opportunity to let go of some of the things that I believed or have been taught that needed to be debunked , and so I can appreciate that , because it allowed me to be in spaces with anybody and everybody and learn how to benefit in a space , to give to the space , but never to be intimidated by any space . Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1I can't agree more . I can't agree more . Our time there was a lot of fun , a lot of learning , a lot of growth and a lot of watering right . Having come from very Waterboarding OK , sometimes , sometimes , sometimes , but having come from very Waterboarding Sometimes , but having come from very white spaces into Bennett , for me was both validating and , you know , getting pushed in the deep end of like , oh , you can do this . I'm like , ah no , I can't , oh , maybe I can Like . I totally agree . And it's funny because I'm still in contact with a lot of Bells that are not only from my class or , more importantly , your class I think I'm more friends in my own but the network of alum who are all over the country and very still much engendering to the sisterhood , which is always amazing .
Speaker 2It's amazing and I really had not ever even heard of being at college until my senior year .
Speaker 1Listen , chris Wilson from Pensacola , new Jersey , was my high school . She was one of the like admin , something like that . And she's like you need to go to bed . I'm like lady , I don't need listen . Let me say something . I like boys and I ain't trying to be around a whole bunch of females because that's trouble . And then I got the scholarship and my dad was like well , you can either go ahead and do that or you can pay for whatever's next . I'm like okay , well , that's the thing .
Speaker 2That's what my dad that's . The only time my dad ever yelled at me in anger is when I was crying because I wanted to go to James Madison University and my dad said you're pissing me off , you're going where they're giving you the money . That was the conversation . But yeah , that was the conversation .
Speaker 1Listen , I have the same thing , because I wanted to go to Howard and they gave every school 13 schools I went to , got into all of them and Howard University was the only one that didn't give me any money . Just terrible . Oh wow , terrible , terrible , terrible , terrible . They didn't know what they were listening to . It's all good , god does all things well .
Speaker 2And you know what's crazy . So we can cut all this out . But it was funny that I was in Danville , 42 miles away , had never heard of being in college ever before . I was at a college fair in the cafeteria of my high school and a lady said , hey , hey , come over here and talk to me . You need to talk to me . And I was like okay , and she was from Bennett College and I had never once heard of it not once .
Speaker 2And ended up getting a scholarship for tuition and then later got this application for that full ride scholarship from the National Institutes of Health and Dr Watkins . Nellie Watkins taught me one of my biggest lessons that I use to this day , which is biblical , but I had not read it before , that she says to me , as she had outlined the scholarship in a meeting with my mother and I , she says you know , to whom much is given , much is required . And so that goes for my giftings that went for my scholarship spaces . That you're allowed to occupy the spaces where your gifts make room for you . To whom much is given , much is required .
Speaker 1Dr Cadogan , we have covered so much ground in this conversation . I want to know what's next for you . What are you most looking forward to as you go forward ?
Speaker 2Well ,
Finding Balance and Future Projects
Speaker 2what is next and in the works for me is coming in for landing on life balance . I've been working at it for several years , but I think that I have learned my final lesson about how to treat be doing more writing , more singing , probably , and just overall having a focus of joy . Doing things because it gives me joy , not because it makes a whole lot of money , not because somebody else thinks I should . As a matter of fact , for many years , anybody who tells me I should do something can count on me not doing it because that's not your business . Y'all have been saying don't shit on me , so don't shit on me . If you tell me I should do something , then it's going to go under a real serious microscope because I have to make my own decisions .
Speaker 2But I've been working on a couple of pieces . One is a workbook called Seven Days and Seven Ways to Increase Self-Confidence . So it's funny that you talk about people not knowing how to show up or how to really take me when I show up . So that's what I've been pouring into a bit . And what is so crazy , speaking of neuro , neuroscience and all is that I had this book parsed out and , you know , ready to go in a way , but I had to go through one more knockdown before this book could be as authentic as it needs to be , and so I count this last illness when .
Speaker 1I didn't even know I was ill .
Speaker 2I thought I was just exhausted but I was actually ill . So I count this as the last knockout that was needed for me to really be believable when I tell you that you can do things to make a difference , when I tell you that you can do things to make a difference , because being ill and having limitations because you're ill will make you question whether or not you're able to do things at all , whether you have the skill , whether you have the wherewithal , the energy , like why might as well give up ?
Speaker 2You know I'm going to give up and so , as I was editing the book very recently , I realized that I needed my own book and I had no idea that I needed it so that I could , at the very least , not descend into the pit , never to return , but maybe just visit it or look at it from a distance and not give up on myself and keep the confidence in all things that I have been , that I can be and that are able to be done with my hands and feet for God . And so I think that this was necessary , it was a must , needs go through , so that I could be believable when I say these are things that if you do them , they will make a difference in your life . Yeah , without seeming like somebody who doesn't have to do anything , that doesn't have to work at it , because that's how sometimes I am perceived as somebody who has it easy and it's not easy . I just simply don't believe that anything can knock me down if not for purpose . Right , weebles wobble , but they don't fall down .
Speaker 1You pulled that from the archives .
Speaker 2Oh yeah , my mom and I use it all the time . We've been using that since I was a kid . You can get knocked . I mean , I tell you the world , life , people , situations can really push you . But I like to see myself as either one of those clowns with the rocker bottom or like a weevil . You can punch me and I might even hit the ground , but I just wobble because I'm popping back up . And when I pop back up like that clown , I'm coming back for you I'm trying my best not to sing .
Speaker 1I get knocked down . I'm trying my best and not damn . I get no yeah , but I get up again oh that one .
Speaker 2Yes , I did it , yes , yes , so true , yep , yes , I did yes , yes , so true , yep , yep . My favorite mental song during workspaces is All I Do Is Win . That's not a bad song . All I Do Is Win , no matter what . Listen so , even in the moment , like it can seem like something so horrible , but I'm like , carry on through this process , but all I do is win . I know that's right .
Speaker 1Well , listen , my favorite winner , Dr Mariska Adams-Kadogan . It has been an absolute pleasure having you on . Sew your Box , that's now what . Thank you so much for being a part of our journey .
Speaker 2Thank you for having me .
Speaker 1Today's episode is brought to you by Natalie Parker Enterprises , where we shape the future and unlock potential by helping organizations and people work together to do good work . Find out more at thenatalieparkercom , or , if you'd like to be a sponsor , email us at info at thenatalieparkercom .
