Me & a Bunch of White Girls

Valentine's Day Edition: Love & Microaggressions

February 12, 2019 Season 1 Episode 5
Me & a Bunch of White Girls
Valentine's Day Edition: Love & Microaggressions
Chapters
Me & a Bunch of White Girls
Valentine's Day Edition: Love & Microaggressions
Feb 12, 2019 Season 1 Episode 5
Clarke Williams/Friends
A #MeAndABunchOfWhiteGirls Valentine's
Show Notes Transcript

On the latest episode of #MeAndABunchOfWhiteGirls, our host, Clarke, is talking to three friends about the various microaggressions they've experienced in their romantic relationships. The conversations are as diverse at the folks featured, so we hope you enjoy!

The episode features: Danielle, Nicole and Randi. 

Happy Valentine's Day y'all! 

Follow @mbwgpodcast on Instagram and Twitter. 

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Speaker 1:
0:01
Hey, I'll thank you for listening to another episode of mean a bunch of white girls, the podcast that is sharing the stories, the experiences of women and femmes of color who live work, go to school date in predominantly white spaces. I'm your host Clark Williams. I'm a consultant based out of Washington DC. And the show is like one of the highlights of my life passion project that like I never could have seen actually happening and it wouldn't have if it were not for all of the wonderful people I have in my life who were willing to come on, get tipsy with me and share their stories, um, who we're being so open and so authentically themselves. I'm so grateful and thankful for all of them and I'm thankful for all of you who are listening to this show. Um, you know, having a moment with yourself and then also having a moment with me and my friends.
Speaker 1:
1:00
I think that's really beautiful and really special that other women of color are listening to the show and are really getting something out of it and letting go of some of that negative bullshit that's being put on us every single day that the show is helping you let that go. That's been really wonderful for me to hear from people listening to the show. I hate. I hope you keep having that feeling as we continue. So this week I wanted to do something a little bit different. It's Valentine's Day week is the Tuesday before Valentine's Day and I invited three friends to come on the show this week and talk about micro aggressions they experienced in their relationships, whether it was a partner saying something after up or it was a partner's family member or family friends saying something messed up or if it was a stranger interacting with my friend and their partner in a really f top way.
Speaker 1:
1:57
So it runs the gamut and I think we all know that. And that's why I think these three stories are so important to share. So we're going to start with Danielle, who you all met on episode three. Yes, episode three. You're intimidating the rest of the class. Um, Daniella sharing a story from college era, I believe. Uh, Danielle's a womanist activists, reproductive justice activists who was originally from Alabama is now living in the district being an amazing woman of Color Queer leader in a space that does not have a lot of either of those, um, identities being represented. Second, we're having Nicole on the show. I love Nicole so much. Y'All. Nicole is an activist based out of Washington DC as well who was originally from La. She likes discussing race and politics, learning about astrology as a Gemini and planning woke photo shoots for Ige.
Speaker 1:
2:59
If you don't follow at jazz and Nicole you are missing out. Um, Nicole is going to be sharing a story also from college. Actually. Yes, I'm sharing a story from college, uh, dating white men. Um, third story also I believe college era or at least like early twenties era. Uh, my friend Randy who is a personal trainer, health coach, the big sister I always wanted, and I'm sure she would follow that up with the little sis. I'm the little sister she never wanted, but I literally woke up to her so much. She's everything. She is going to be on the show talking about the earlier years in her now marriage, I guess relationship. She's now married to a wonderful man. Shout out to Dylan. Hey, what's up? Um, and so micro microaggression that they experienced in their dating life. Um, heads up, Dylan is white man. She says that obviously that I was like, you know, it's like in the Intro, I should tell you all what's going on. So yeah, so we have a really great show. I'm excited to hear what you all think. Hell, you all relate to their stories. Uh, so we're just going to get right into it. Here's Danielle.
Speaker 1:
4:23
Okay. So I'm here with Dan and we're talking about relationships today. Demille shaking her head. Oh God. But I, I really wanted to have this episode because one, it's the week of Valentine's Day. I wanted to do something special. Um, and I've never been in a real relationship and been a chronic situation ship per, um, so I'm really curious to know what all kind of dealt with experiences that we've had. Um, you briefly mentioned something I'm really excited to get into because you are super vague and I'm like, when is this going to be? You were just like a, can it be a macro aggression? Okay, I'm ready. So yes. So my current spouse is the first and only black person. Um, yeah, everyone before it was white. Um, for various reasons, mostly that, um, I was mostly like high school and forward in predominantly white institutions of various sorts. So, um, yeah, my purse, every one else, everybody else other than my, um, spouse. Um, and so the person I'm going to tell
Speaker 2:
5:58
you about heavily featured in my macro aggression was my second girlfriend who I was in and I guess now you'd call it a situation shoe. Then I lose and now really referred to it as I'm an on and off again relationship or six years. That's a bulk of your life growing up. Yeah. We started dating in, I think my sophomore year of high school and we went to the same university. So from sophomore year to Sophomore Year of high school too, late Sophomore Year of college, we were together. So she set the scene. I like now referred to her as my worst ex. I mean, she's still alive. We follow each other on Instagram mostly, so she can see that I want to break up.
Speaker 3:
7:07
MMM.
Speaker 2:
7:08
She's like, I'm from Alabama. Um, so she has a southern accent, blue eyes, blonde hair. When we were, um, in high school she was everything. She still dances, so she was in a ballet program. So like
Speaker 3:
7:26
[inaudible]
Speaker 2:
7:28
any lake stereotype white girl you can think of, just like check off those boxes. Um, she's also queer and, um, so I don't know how heterosexual relationships work because by the time I started dating, like for real, I like already knew I was clear. But, um, you know, young faults, like queer relationships as young people I think tend to be pretty like intense anyway. Um, especially because we were all like in the process of sort of figuring ourselves out. Um, in figuring out, okay, I know I have these feelings, but I don't know, like exactly how identify or whatever. And so at that point I was only closet to my family. So everyone, like my whole friend group, everyone I went to school with knew I was queer and she was, um, at the time of this story, uh, she was, um, fairly closeted to most people.
Speaker 2:
8:33
I think only certain folks knew about like our relationship, which is the hub to school together. We went to school together for the whole six years that we were on and off together and we went through like a whole lot of bullshit of like figuring out whether or not you're queer, figuring out whether or not you want to be with this person. And like really going back and forth about that. And like sometimes like dating guys wall. So you stuck with me wow. Late. Yeah, I was absolutely like sort of, I think it was easy for her to justify basically fucking around on me because she assumed that I would always be there because we ran it on and off relationship for six years anyway. Um, so that is my worst eggs. Yeah. I still, I would, I wouldn't say that I am my present self still have feelings about her and her present itself, but I definitely still have like feelings about the way that like she treated me as like super disposable and super like, oh, I can do what around one and you'll always be there as we were growing up.
Speaker 2:
9:49
But, so the story that I have for now for this episode is, so in 2012, uh, there was this horrible tornado that like rip through Alabama and actually a fun fact, I almost die tornado. Oh my God. It was like this like huge storm that was like basically headed straight for the building. Now we weren't and fucking Alabama football, it got turned around because it went through the stadium and like there was just something, or at least this is what people say, right. That there was something about it being in the stadium that got it off course so that it was no longer heading towards the building that we rent. Okay. So we're not for the stadium. I would absolutely have died. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but it like destroyed Tuscaloosa, which is a city that University of Alabama's and, and then it proceeded to destroy Birmingham or large parts of Birmingham, which is the city that I'm from. So it was super traumatizing. I probably still have some like for real do you from it? Cause it was horrible. Yeah. But uh, uh, so one of the neighborhoods that it destroyed was neighborhood that a couple of different members of my family lived in. Yeah. And my grandmother was actually killed by this tornado.
Speaker 4:
11:13
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
11:17
Happened like six or seven years ago.
Speaker 4:
11:19
I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2:
11:23
Okay. It gets worse in terms of this story.
Speaker 4:
11:28
Right.
Speaker 2:
11:30
So the area that my grandma lived in what's called Pratt city, it was a neighborhood, I don't know why they call it a city. And so after the tornado, like immediately after, um, I think I was actually dating someone else at the time, didn't like in the aftermath of the tornado, she and I like back to quotes. Right. But, um, so I ended up, so I went back home to Birmingham, so it'd be with my family and deal with all the things happening there. And I ended up going to see her at her family's house. Keep in mind, we're like, uh, this is sophomore year, so we're like, what, 18, 19. Yup. Um, so we're in that weird in between space where you're sort of wanna know, but kind of not. And especially in like times of tragedy like this, you're really not. You're like someone's child again.
Speaker 2:
12:30
And so I went over to her parents' house and we ended up, um, going for a walk and somehow one of her, um, uh, friends of the family ended up joining us. And so we're on this walk and talk sort of processing and talking about what happened. And it wasn't her, it was, oh my God, I forgot a detail. You can edit this in at some point. So her grandfather I think was the grand wizard of the county. That shit. Yeah, it was real bad. You knew this before going over to her house. I know this for years.
Speaker 5:
13:13
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
13:15
But like this is the family and the like extended to friends of the family. These are the people that, you know, even if she is like allegedly
Speaker 5:
13:25
Lee [inaudible]
Speaker 2:
13:27
allegedly not racist or at least air quotes, not racist enough to like date someone who's lad. Yeah. This is still like the family that she has. So we were on this walk with the family or friend and we're talking about the tornado and all of the places that have been destroyed. And she's, uh, the family friends, sorry, talking about how according to her people are going to start like taking advantage of insurance claims and try and get things out of the government or whoever insurance. And that is bullshit because they never had anything. So it's not fair that they should act like they didn't have anything, act like they have anything now and et Cetera, et cetera. And she's like, yeah, people in line. And she starts naming all of these cities that are of course a predominantly black. And she's like, yeah, I'm like crap city.
Speaker 2:
14:22
Like what is that? And uh, the person that I'm dating was dating. Then it just kind of nodding and I'm like, you know, I'm not arguing because I'm like out here like 45 minutes away from my house. They drove me here. This is before Uber was a thing, Bama. So there's no way for me, I mean I can call my family, but there is no way for me to easily get back and I just have to sit here and listen to this woman. So tell me that the like this area that I grew up in this area where like I have to pass by and see my grandma's like destroyed house wasn't ever shit in the first place. And everyone who's there is just there to Mooch. Yeah. Is there like, Ooh, she never mind the fact that they're like home, so literally been destroyed and so yeah.
Speaker 2:
15:27
And she was just like non along just like Yep. That's so true. I agree with that. Um, and and you know, I wasn't, I wasn't in a place then where honestly, like we had, like after this time we decided to like get back together for real and try it again. And we like broke up shortly after. But when I look back on like all of the red flags, you know, from Sophomore Year of high school on of like treating me as disposable, like uh, really on also like there's some weird shit about like not really respecting my activism and decided to do it. But that was the moment where I'm was really like, oh, I really should have like said but this and fuck and like make my way on back home know. So you know, that was really the moment, not in that moment, but looking back where I sort of recognize that just because you're dating a black person and just because you're like cool air quotes, being around black bolt's actually doesn't necessarily mean shit unless you're like willing to put up in those moments where you're talking to someone who's been a family friend for years and years and spouting this like absolutely vowel bullshit.
Speaker 2:
16:59
It is so comparable spouting it that they will stay in front of like a black person who they have no idea where they're from or what connections they have with the destruction that has happened. And you just sit there and not like, there's no reason for me to move on from that or trust you or think that, okay, you're going to have my back in any other situation because you didn't have my back in the situation where all you had to say is, oh that's actually fucked up. Yeah. Yeah. That is my macro aggression. I would just like, were there other moments and like micro aggressions from her and her family throughout your sixth year on and off relationship? Hmm. That's hard. I think the micro aggressions were like, it's hard to identify them as aggression because it was so much wrapped up in like just the, the, I hesitate to call it abuse with like the emotional disinterests. Um, and uh, like real assumption, that assumption that I'd always be there and that I'd always be fine sort of taking second best to like whatever bullshit you're going through. And also like the, I think with her it was a real, I don't see color kind of relationship where, you know, you're making,
Speaker 1:
18:37
I'm transparent. I have such a hard time.
Speaker 2:
18:52
So like, I mean, I mentioned in the last episode, like I have spent a lot of time, a long, long period of time working through my own anti blackness. You know, when you're a white person was if you're going to pursue a relationship with a black person, Goddamn, how easy is it to do it with someone who has a lot of anti blackness and who, you know, when you're like, I don't see color, they're like, oh, I'm not a color like that. It was like, Oh, I'm so glad that you participate in all of these elements of like whiteness. You like these artists that are due, all of these things that I think of as being quote unquote to black. Like none of it was a lot of that. So, and that's hard for me to identify as a microaggression because it felt so seeped into just our relationship that like the whole fucking relationship with integration of some sort. Yeah. So, um, I, uh, follow her on Instagram now and follow each other. And, um, she has a friend who is a
Speaker 2:
20:19
black person, um, who was like female assigned it birth. I don't know their gender identity, but I see a lot of the ways that she treated me in like taking that emotional labor or requiring that emotional labor and that, oh, we were so close, but I'm not going to choose you first or I'm not going to make you a priority or et Cetera, et cetera. Cause we were just friends. We're like just playing or whatever. I see that, I see that happening with this person and I really like not so much now, but when we first broke up and I started to see this person in her Instagrams, I really thought about sending just a quick DM just does be like, you're not going to get whatever you think you're going to get, like, get out now. So in your relationships moving forward, did you do, so after this officially ended, did you date other white people after he really, was that like a, I am thrilled because of this experience or did it just like shake out that way? I started dating my spouse, um, maybe six months after we broke up for the last time, which I sometimes joke and say it's like way too soon, but you know, it worked out for us, so it's fine. We were married. Um, but like I just, I'm pretty upfront about the fact that like I'm not interested in pursuing a romantic or sexual relationship with white girls. Like I don't,
Speaker 2:
22:06
you're going to edit out whatever you need. Easy. But like, I don't find white girls attractive. It's like a very, very niche. And even then like I, you know, I am friends with the white girls that I became friends with before this breakup and all other white girls are like arm's length because there's that like thing about white women, right? Where is sort of stylized as white men are dangerous. White men are the ones who will yell racial slurs at you and who will like be physically violent towards you. But white women are, you know, we're all oppressed. We are all, all have marginalized. Identity is, why don't you trust me, et Cetera, et cetera. And it's bullshit. Which is not to say that I don't know white women that I'm fond of, but outside of the ones who I became friends with before this breakup, I know that I, I'm not gonna say I know, I think that it's very unlikely that I will find another white woman who I want to have a deep relationship of any sort where, cause it's just
Speaker 6:
23:20
like
Speaker 2:
23:21
there's a whole other level of unpacking your own privilege and unpacking your own like immediate bias and reactions that white women get to like slide by and not have because they're like, well, I'm not a white man. Yeah. You know, I'm not the one who was out here with the KKK hood on. I was like, no, this, but like you were the ones who were
Speaker 2:
23:46
like making the household run with work. Are you the one making the household run and like not calling your husband's on their shit and not calling your family members on their shit when they do these racist things. And so setting up a fake name. Yeah, the tree like that the person will be lynched from. And I think that it's, in some ways it's like more subtle than the racism, racism that we seek in white men. And I think that that makes it harder for white women. Yeah. And like that's their cross to me. Yeah. Cause I, yeah, like trying to walk you through unpacking your own biases and your own grace. Yeah.
Speaker 7:
24:41
Okay.
Speaker 8:
24:46
Okay. Um, thank you for being on mean a bunch of white girls. As you know, it's a Valentine's Day special. So we're talking about relations topic and we were talking the other day and you had a really great story by one and everyone else to hear about your college years dating in college. You went to Holy Cross. Yes. So give us, give us some information about holy cross because I had never heard of it until you mentioned it.
Speaker 9:
25:15
Yes. Neither had I until I got the financial aid package. Yeah.
Speaker 8:
25:21
So
Speaker 9:
25:22
holy cross is in Worcester, Worcester, Massachusetts and it's a small liberal arts Catholic college and it's not very diverse. So I think it's only been 40 years since the women were allowed to attend the college. And before that it was mostly white male, Irish Catholic. So the complete opposite of me. And when I arrived to holy cross, I had a huge culture shock. I come from Los Angeles where there's huge diversity everywhere you go in the city. So when I got there, it felt very strange to be an actual minority group because I'm Mexican, Mexican American and an alley that is a huge population. So when I got there, it felt very isolating to be there where you felt that no one looks like you were understood your background. So that was kind of my first introduction to the campus was being in a classroom where I was the only person of color, the only woman of color in most cases.
Speaker 9:
26:37
So it was a very challenging four years to say the least. Um, but learned a lot. So, yeah. So what were your dating experiences like? So when I first got to holy cross, I had just got an editor of a relationship from high school. So it was of course heartbroken because I thought I was going to marry him. So I was, you know, very committed to just being single and working really hard in school. But of course college is huge dating, see hookup scene. So I got swept away, swept into it of kind of feeling pressure to find a relationship. Um, so when I got there, I was not looking for a committed, you know, relationship, but I was interested in a few people and I was, we were sort of dating around. Um, but I again, I noticed that it was very difficult to find people who understood my background as a Latina.
Speaker 9:
27:43
So it was challenging and stressful and I constantly felt this unsettled feeling in my stomach as if, uh, I wasn't being taken seriously sometimes or I was a fetish for her for some guys. Um, and so I was always on edge. And being a woman and being a woman of color, you always feel that a walking in the world just feeling like you're always second guessing things or watching your bag or trying to figure out, you know, what are people's real intentions. So dating felt like felt like that as well. Um, and so I, I met a few guys and most of them were white men because that's most of the population at holy cross. And in the back of my mind I kind of was a little uncertain, but I also felt this pressure that I didn't know where it was coming from, of like, why, why am I being chosen by these guys?
Speaker 9:
28:53
Um, I guess not pressure, but uncertainty of why, you know, what, what are these people's intentions? And it definitely came, I later kind of reflected on this from my upbringing. So growing up, it might've not been directly said by my family, but it was understood that dating someone who was white was superior, was the better alternative. And that is of course from internalized racism and also just how we function in the world and how we, you, we valley whiteness over everything else. Um, how society values whiteness. So I always felt kind of lucky to be chosen by these white guys. Um, and it, it really messed with my head because I knew my value and I knew how important I was besides, you know, having been quote unquote chosen. Um, by these white guys. But the same time I was battling this, this idea that I had been brought up with, you should date someone who is white because your children will be cuter or um, they'll have more wealth or they're more intelligent or they'll have certain privileges that you can benefit from.
Speaker 9:
30:18
And so that was something that I really struggled in the beginning. I'm with. So I dealt with, with this identity issue of I'm a proud Latina, but here I am, you know, feeling jealous when a white guy that I'm talking to is talking to another woman of color and I want to be the only woman of color he speaks too. So it was something that I had to confront and realize, okay, where's this coming from and what can I do to address it? Um, and I did address it eventually and I started realizing I was letting people use me for their own benefit, whether it was being arm candy or making them feel good about their white guilt. Uh, which was something that a lot of the guys that I talked to felt, and they thought that by dating a brown girl there was somehow redeeming themselves from their racist bullshit.
Speaker 9:
31:18
Yes. So they wouldn't call out their racist friends. They wouldn't call out the racist family members. But Hey, I'm getting a brown girl. Um, so I'm not that bad. Yeah. And so that was really frustrating because I would be in a room with this guy that I'm attracted to and I'm like trying to make it work and his friends are making racist jokes and they're being microaggressive and he's not saying anything. And some, you know, I'm questioning like, well does he actually care about my identity? Does he actually care about me as a person? And all that comes with me as a woman of color. So that was really challenging to, to process. But um, yeah, as I moved along my college career, I definitely became more confident in calling that out. And by senior year I was like over it. If you want to date me, you have to be willing to, to put yourself out there.
Speaker 9:
32:19
You can just claim your woke because you're dating a Latina. And then when your friends are wearing Maca hats or think it's funny to have a Mexican theme party and you're just brushing it off as like, oh, they're just being, you know, dumb college kids, well then you don't care about me, you don't love me. Um, and so, yeah. So that realization thankfully came pretty soon. But it definitely is something that I still really have to work on, um, in the workplace, uh, in my personal friendships and my relationships. Just working on taking that internalized racism and just throwing it away because it is something that I was brought up with and I automatically assumed was right. Yeah. And yeah, so my mom would tell me, you know, I dated a white guy my freshman year and she was quote unquote proud of me and that, and I remember her feeling like I did because I was like, okay, like is she proud of me because I'm getting a really good guy.
Speaker 9:
33:35
He was a really good guy. Um, or she proud of me because he's white and she would brag to our family members about his whiteness and about his family's background. And I never, you know, I would, I would never blame her because that's how she was brought up as well. Um, growing up in Mexico and in the community that she did where not only did they rally whiteness but evaluated citizenship, citizenship of the United States. So that's just what she knows. Um, but I, I have had that open conversation with her and telling her, you know, it is her full when you see those things because there was a moment where she did make a comment about my current partner who is not white, he's Mexican American and she kind of insinuated that she was disappointed. Um, cause I wasn't dating a white guy and you know, I love this person and this person is so amazing and so, so great.
Speaker 9:
34:43
So I was like, you'd rather do you rather have me date a white man than have someone of color who was wonderful to me. Yeah. And we that that was definitely the final Straw when I had to have that conversation with her because I was very, very disappointed. And she, and she understood and she realized, you know, this is, this is unhealthy and um, something that she has to work through as well. But at the end of the day, I made a decision for myself that I'm not going to let a white guy or a white girl or white person in general define my value. And I think we do that a lot. Um, when we feel lucky to be chosen by white institution and chosen by a white boss are chosen by whatever white, systemic, you know, system. We feel so fortunate because we look around and we're like, oh, I was chosen, I was the person at of all these people.
Speaker 9:
35:48
And, but then I would look around and be like, wait a minute, my friend is also just as qualified and is also is just as beautiful or what have you. And she wasn't chosen. Why does it only have to be one person of color? And that is something that I've been also working through, especially as I move along in my career of saying, no, I'm not gonna be the only person in this room anymore. I'm going to recommend other women of color. I'm going to recommend other people of color because it's not fair that you get to choose only one and tell us that we have to compete with each other. So yeah. So before we close out, I definitely want to know like what changed your mentality college? Was it a class? Was it appear or was it a situation? Like what kind of, what led to that switch internally that you were like, okay, no more.
Speaker 9:
36:47
Yeah. So I had it, it was a friend. He was definitely romantically interested in me, but I wasn't and, but I still wanted to be his friend. Yeah. And so, you know, we would hang out all the time and we were very close. And then he started making comments about, uh, kind of how I was like teaching him race and ethnicity studies and how I was his like woke friend or whatever. And at first I felt very honored. I was, so I was like, oh, okay. Like he looks up to me because I'm teaching him new things about race and like racial inequality and Punko being woke. But then they started having this uneasy feeling of, okay, he's definitely using this to his own advantage and he's not giving me anything back in return. And this is like an unbalanced relationship. So, you know, we wouldn't watch a dear white people together and he would interrogate me the whole time about race and asked me all these questions and I just felt so much pressure to, to meet these standards for him.
Speaker 9:
38:07
And so I would felt, I felt like I was constantly performing trying to be this ideal brown girl and be the most intelligent brown girl for him. Yeah. For myself. Yeah. And I just got fed up with it and I, you know, I, I felt this is unfair to me. Um, and we had a conversation about it and to him, he got very defensive and was kind of like, felt like I was taking something away from him. And that really, of course upset me, but it made me realize like, wow, okay, let me reevaluate my friendships and my relationships with especially white guys and what, what is, what is happening? Yeah. Am I receiving the same emotional support, intellectual support from them? Yes. The question was always, I mean, the answer is no. I did. I felt on edge all the time. I felt that if I misspoke or if I quote unquote insulted them, that I was going to lose something.
Speaker 9:
39:10
I was going to lose the status that I had been bestowed on by these white guys. And so yeah. So when we had a conversation and I realize like, well, okay, he thinks that he owns me, he thinks that I owe him something as a brown girl to teach him about these woke things and now that he's not getting, getting these things from me, he's upset. And there's a quote that's like that says people show you who they really are when you tell them no. And so when I told him, no, I'm not going to be this for you anymore, he showed me who he really was. He didn't care about me, value me. And that, that was a turning point for me in my head of kind of saying, okay, I need to recognize that I'm dealing with this complex city of feeling that white people are the affirming power in my life and where does that come from?
Speaker 9:
40:11
It came from my upbringing and what can I do about it? And so I decided I'm gonna live my life asking my wokeness for myself, not, not for someone else to take that from me, just so they can look good and so they can feel good about themselves. And Yeah. So I just, I stopped, I, I stopped sending him articles. I stopped being this ideal woke girl for him. I stopped just doing free intellectual labor because I worked hard for that shit. You know, I worked so hard to educate myself, um, and I lived through it. You know, I'm not, I'm not quote unquote woke because, because I just read about it. I lifted. Yeah. And, and I earned it. I earned to know all these things and I'm not just going to hand them out to people who don't value them and don't care about them because it would have been different if he would have taken these things, this knowledge, and use it for something to call out his racist friends, to stand in solidarity with people of Color, to work, to dismantle systemic system, like to, to do anything with it.
Speaker 9:
41:33
And he did it. And so that's why I was like, you don't deserve this. Yeah. You, you need to earn it. Because we've people of color give things away all the time. We give aware of time, we give away our intelligence, we gave aware of bodies and it's like, no more. You don't deserve to have this unless you're going to work for it and do something about a value with it. So that was a huge turning point. And it was hard. Yeah. Um, to, to say no to him and say no to this friendship. But at the end of the day, I knew that I was worth more than he can afford. Love it. Yeah. And I love that. If you've been listening to the show, you all know that like so many of these realizations he's epiphany's and calm like in college spaces. I think being around so many different people who remind you of someone or some other instance, it's something that happened to you.
Speaker 9:
42:33
Like being away from home even like allows for the space to really grow and be unapologetic about my growth. Like I'm at changing, this is who I am. Yeah. And this is what I'm not willing to do anymore. Right? Yeah. And just owning that and letting yourself feel okay with it. Because like I said, at first I definitely thought I was doing the wrong thing and I was like, well, maybe I can change. Maybe, you know, he needs a woke brown grown his leg. But no, this is, that's not my job. No, I'm not getting paid for this. I not getting anything in return. So what, what does it to me? So yeah, it, it was so liberating to just say, you better follow me for what I just lay down because it is so unfair. Yeah. It's, it is something that is valuable. Yeah.
Speaker 9:
43:33
And we need to recognize that, that our identities and our stories and our knowledge, they're worth so much. Yeah. And people always try to tell us that they're not, and that they're not important, that our voices don't matter. But there's people getting white people getting paid to teach brown kids about their identities. I shouldn't I be getting paid for something that I've lived through and then I can share it with people. Yeah. So it, it, it is what it, what it is now. But yeah, I wish someone, someone back then would have told me, it doesn't matter what they think. Doesn't matter what these white guys think about you. Doesn't matter because you know your worth and that's all. That's all you should care about. The, you know who you are and you will need a white guy to tell you that you're worth it. I love that. So let's toast.
Speaker 8:
44:33
She was this beautiful rosy. I really like it, by the way. Thank you for bringing you home. Of course.
Speaker 8:
44:51
Okay. You, so I'm here with Randy. Randy is a federal contractor, personal trainer and a health coach from Maryland. Um, and she's also a dear friend of mine and has all of my really good friends. I think you've been in a relationship with the longest out of all my bid from us too. I can actually like, you know, look at you and Dylan, your husband as like, uh, an example of like a healthy relationship. And I don't think there are a lot of those around. No, not, not with the Internet available. Yeah. It means a lot worse dating before iPhone. Yeah. So how did you guys meet? So my husband is white. Yes. And we met in the whitest place ever. Peck son.
Speaker 8:
45:58
What were you shopping for? No, well some shopping there even better. We were working there. So my manager shout out to frank who will never hear this, but shout out to frank. Um, was Dylan's best friend from high school and so frank was throwing a party and Dylan was at the party, met him there, we hit it off and then we ended up working together. Wow. So it wasn't like love at first sight before him. I mean I was 21 or 22 at the time. So I hadn't really dated per se, you know, like there's a high school like boyfriends and in college I lived on in the dorms and dates like nobody could afford to go on. I hadn't really dated a whole lot. Um, but I had like talked to other white guy. I mean I talk to all kinds of dudes. Was He the first? Not necessarily, but he was the first guy that I was in a serious relationship with. And so
Speaker 8:
47:31
Dylan is from Maryland as well. Right. Born and raised in Damascus. Maryland. Lived there for until up until we moved into our first apartment together. Wow. Lived in the same house for like 22 years. Yeah. You don't meet many people like that. Especially not in this area. Not In the DMV area. There's not a lot of people who were born, raised in, stayed. That's sure. Damascus is a super small town in Montgomery County, Maryland. It's very rural. Um, I actually lived with him and his parents in their basement for like three years after we were engaged. Um, that was an interesting experience. But a Damascus was like, it was a dry town up until 2012 when I voted to cut that shit out. There still are no, um, liquor stores or beer and wine stores, but you can get it at the pizzeria, the one pizzeria one pizza, Rhea, um, in Damascus.
Speaker 8:
48:47
Shout out to you to mask this Maryland. What's a love of barely, so through this relationship, what have been some of, or what was one of the be like worse instances of racism that you all experience? So one sticks out to me in particular, and it's funny because before he, before I got here today, he and I had a conversation and I had mentioned this situation to him and he said, you know, that happened kind of like to a lesser degree before that at the mall. And I was like, I don't remember that at all. So apparently this has happened twice, but I blocked the first one out of my memory completely. Um, so there's a neighboring town to Damascus called Mount Airy, Maryland, which is, believe it or not, even more rural, dry navy. I'm not, I doubt it but I'm not sure.
Speaker 8:
49:55
So there is a tiny little restaurant in mount airy that everyone from around the mount airy Damascus area, no called, I think it's called the mount area in, I'm not sure, but it's like a little brunch spot that his mom used to. Dylan's mom used to go to a lot. Um, his sister would talk about it all the time. Like everyone there talks, it's a destination and mount airy fairy. So um, we decided to go there for Brunch one day. I think this is when we were living in his parents' basement together. I'm not sure. It was several years ago, probably like seven or so years ago. We've been together for almost 12 years. Um, so we get to the restaurant, I'm super excited cause this brunch obviously not, we walk in and it feels like the music stopped. Oh Wow. I immediately, I don't know about you but when I'm in spaces that I know are probably going to be predominantly white, I become hyper aware of my environment, do like a quick scan of the room to see what the situation is. And then figure out how to react to that. So I look around, I'm clearly the only black person there. We get seated at our table. I'm still like, yeah, you know, I mean in Damascus this is not very diverse. Ranier is the next town over. I don't assume it's going to be much different. It's not a, we sit down at our table, we know we're going over the menu. I started to look around the room to see what people are eating. And I noticed people are staring at us. The two of us,
Speaker 8:
51:54
we're not at like a booth. We're literally sitting in the middle of a restaurant at a table for two people. It's crowded as hell cause this brunch and it's a destination. It's insane. You know, there's a lot of like old people, families, not a lot of like younger couples really. It's sort of like a take granny to launch type of place. Um, so we sit down and I'm looking at the menu, look around, notice people are staring at us and I'm like, okay. You know, they probably don't see this very often. And like they, they, they see black people, but probably not interracial couples very much, you know, giving people kind of the benefit of the doubt. Our food comes out. I continue looking around, I see people like frowning at me. I got up to go to the bathroom, come back and I sit down and walk or I see this older woman sort of a cross. She's sitting at the table next to us, but it's sort of like diagonal. Two women sitting, you see, or we make eye contact and she shakes her head. Yes.
Speaker 10:
53:06
Wow.
Speaker 8:
53:07
And then like says something to the people next to her. And I immediately just started crying.
Speaker 11:
53:15
It was, it
Speaker 8:
53:18
for me, it was pretty traumatic. Um, and Dylan, obviously he understood why I was upset, was not as upset as I was. Um, I, I'm sitting there in the middle of this restaurant surrounded by white people. None of them want me there. Yeah. And it's like 2007, eight, nine.
Speaker 7:
53:42
Okay.
Speaker 8:
53:43
It's not 1972
Speaker 12:
53:49
thousands. Yeah.
Speaker 8:
53:51
So that's never happened to me before. I've never been in a space where people didn't want me because of what I look like. I was not used to that. I grew up in Ann Arbor, but the, it wasn't very diverse, but nobody cared there. Uh, so it was, I, it was awful. Um, and we ended up, you know, I didn't want to like get up and leave and be the black girl who doesn't pay her bill.
Speaker 12:
54:23
Exactly. What you cannot do that. Wow.
Speaker 8:
54:27
So we finished our food. Um, we pay the bill, we get to the car and like, you know, I was crying at the table, but not like bawling. I was just like visibly upset. We get to the car and I just lost it and was like, I can't believe these people. Like just because of what I look like, I don't understand. You know, it's the first time that I ever experienced blatant racism before. And he said, and I will never forget it, and I carry it with me to this day. He said, imagine how miserable they must be knowing that your presence alone ruin their day and they have to carry that on their spirits every single day. They have to carry that hatred and you don't. And I remember that and I again, I carry it with me to this day. Uh, it was very calming for me. You know, he was upset too obviously, but he wasn't hurt. I was more angry but didn't show it. He's not the type of person to really show anger. He's more sympathetic
Speaker 12:
55:37
me off sometimes. Not as not trying to understand that mad, but yeah,
Speaker 8:
55:51
no he was very calming and, and I'll never forgive or forget that moment. So and based on that, like do you think, you talked about him being like a really sympathetic person. Do you think that makes it easier in those moments like in the future when anything like that happens? Like being in an interracial relationship where like, it's not about like you're white partner being the weakest of the woke and no Wingo and being as understanding and sympathizing Raizel yes. And I mean, he is, I hate this term, but he is woke sometimes he knows more stuff than I do. Not like he's not hip,
Speaker 12:
56:43
he's not cool by any means.
Speaker 8:
56:47
Um, but yeah, I, I do think
Speaker 7:
56:52
that
Speaker 8:
56:53
to answer your question that that would help in future situations, you know. Um, and when I say sympathetic, I don't mean like sympathetic towards the racist, you know, he's not like, well, you know, they grew up in an area or no, right? No, he understands it. That they are ignorant. They have chosen to be ignorant and they have chosen that path for their lives. He's sympathetic to how I react. And I actually asked him today, uh, what I talked about at the beginning of this. I said, you know, you know, when I walk into a space, the first thing that I notice is how many other people of color are there. And I asked him if that's something that he notices or was he ever aware of that? And he said, no, it's not something that I look for. It's usually not even something that I realize until you mentioned it. But when you do, I understand
Speaker 7:
57:50
and I,
Speaker 8:
57:52
I can see how you'd be uncomfortable in that space. We've been together for 12 years and it's still not something that he thinks about necessarily. Um, so it's, it's interesting, you know, he'll never know what it feels like to be me. You know, you never know what it feels like to be him, but all we can do is talk about it. Yeah. Um, and understand each other. And we've never had any issues with that. You know, I've never been like,
Speaker 12:
58:17
I don't know. I don't know why. You don't understand why boxer braids aren't okay. Why don't you get it.
Speaker 8:
58:28
Okay.
Speaker 12:
58:28
You know, once I explain things to him,
Speaker 8:
58:31
you did say it. And do you find yourself, cause one of the things we talk about in, um, in a lot of like social justice spaces, uh, is the, Danielle talks about this in her episode as well for episode three. But like, it's not my job to like make you feel more comfortable with the way things are. Right. Or it's not my job to teach you about the way things are. Right. Do you find that it's yeah. Easier to talk to him about these things to do the, have those teachable moments with him because he is a sympathetic person or is it because of your closest with him that you're like, no, I'm going to do this work because it's the very least you got to be the person. I, it's more so because he's my husband.
Speaker 10:
59:24
MMM.
Speaker 8:
59:25
And he comes from a family who's very aware of social justice issues, you know, his mom and his dad. The first thing before we even started our relationship, I asked him two questions. Number one, are your parents going to be okay with this? And number two,
Speaker 8:
59:45
do you all need a black woman, she type of thing or am I the first, what? What's the deal? Um, before we even got into a serious relationship and he was like, oh, I never even like thought to ask my parents if they would be okay with that because it's not the way I was raised. Like they are not going to have an issue and they didn't and he actually thought that my parents would have an issue with him being white, which is hilarious to me because my parents are hippies, his parents are hippies. It's not an issue. Um, and I think I was the first black woman he's ever bandwidth or dated. So that wasn't an issue either. You know, I just, I didn't want to be fetishize a course any way worse. That is one of the main worries. Like this is like a box you're checking off as opposed to like an authentic connection that you're having with me.
Speaker 8:
60:47
Yeah, exactly. Well it's good that he was able to, like you said, sympathize with you in that moment. And then also I find that it's difficult to like stay positive in those sorts of moments. Like you automatically want to go to like the venting and the shit on them and sat on this and that and the third. But he was like, don't even worry about it. That means nothing in the grand scheme of our life. Right. Because that person is wildly unhappy. And that's how I feel about a lot of races. But look, we still have to move through the world with them. And that's where like the, yeah. Anger, move, venting comes out. Like I can't completely separate. You can't. And it's, it's much easier to when you are not, I don't want to see the victim. You're not the one at the end of all of that. Right.
Speaker 10:
61:46
MMM.
Speaker 8:
61:47
But I understand he, he means well and he's coming from a good boy. He just wants me to be happy at the end of the day. And if that means that, you know, forget about what these miserable people are thinking, you and I both know who you are as a person, that means nothing. Um, it's, it's nice to have that. It's, he's only wants a happy wife. Happy wife. Happy life. Exactly. And we don't go to mount airy anymore. Last time we'd ever been to that. Oh God, no, no, no, no need to return to the scene of the crime. That one.
Speaker 8:
62:29
So advice to like people in relationships, period. You know, dealing with a front to either an individual person in the relationship or just like, you know, naysaying the entire situation. What do you have? Listen, especially for men, I find that straight men tried to find solutions to things, to a lot of your issue, my issues, you know, but instead of giving me advice or coming up with the solution, I just want you to hear me. Yeah, that's all. So listen to your partner. You don't necessarily have to fix their problems, but they need someone to listen to their problems and talk with them and to tell them that everything's going to be okay or to tell them that they're being, you know, everything might not be okay, but I will be here always. I love that. Well, cheers to that. Cheers. Happy. Almost Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's Day special. Oh, so we're not actually big on Valentine's Day or anniversaries. Yeah, just sort of do like a last minute. Maybe we'll go to dinner and maybe not, I don't know. It depends on what day it is and it's, it's, it's a Wednesday, it's not going down. Big Birthday people, we celebrate that and Valentine's Day happens to be pretty close to my birthday, so we don't exchange gifts or cards or anything. Although I will say he usually gets me flowers and if I don't get, it's an issue.
Speaker 8:
64:25
One year they came like the day after because there was a blizzard and I even give me, he's like, I actually do. It's amazing. Yeah. So we don't really, we don't do a big thing for Valentine's days long. We were together. That's all I know. Thanks Randy. And I love just to say like, I know Dylan, I've met Dylan, Dylan, I find you guys so wonderful. Thank you as a couple and individually is people. So I'm glad to have y'all as an example of like do it like this or something. Like maybe not so much. Yeah.
Speaker 8:
65:21
Yeah. So cheers to that as well. Thank you. And thank you for being on the show. Thank you for having these fund. I know, it's great. It's awesome. What I've noticed in this show, I'm probably going to cut this out, but I have wanted to have these conversations for forever because I've known you for years. I know a lot of friends on the show so far for years and these are things that just I wanted to talk about and everyone is so busy. Yeah, it's hard to find the time. And when we're like at a Beyonce concert, it's Kinda not that it's not the time to talk about anything other than beyond. It's probably not. So in those moments I'm like, they'll save it for later and then brunch comes in, talk about something else earlier. These are just things that I actually want to talk about. Right. And it's like the show's offering me that opportunity. So even if nothing comes to this neat, getting to talk about this and see if the people that I care about. Yeah, I'm good. Yes. It's what I love to do. Paired consumption. Yeah. A lot of people describe it with, okay, say it out loud, I can let go. Yeah.
Speaker 8:
66:36
So I'm really glad about that. Absolutely. So let's go eat Indian food and get you home. All right. Well ma'am.
Speaker 7:
66:55
Okay,
Speaker 1:
67:00
so that's a wrap for the Valentine's Day special edition of mean a bunch of white girls. Thank you so much for listening. If you want to hear more about my friends and their experiences, please read the extended interviews we have with all of our guests on patrion.com/m BWG podcast. Stay tuned for um, see tune, sorry for episodes from Randy and from Nicole in the coming weeks. Uh, they are a couple of new guests on the show. Um, and you can read their extended interviews also on patrion.com/and BWG podcast. Follow, um, being a bunch of white girls on Twitter and on Instagram at and Bwg podcast and share the show with your friends. Please. And thank you. Happy Valentine's Day, you guys. I hope everyone is having a good time, whether you're celebrating with a partner or a loved one or just yourself.
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