Building Confidence for Business Visibility with Megan Hamilton

This one’s for all of you hiding behind your laptop, hoping no one notices you haven’t posted since May. I sat down with the brilliant and refreshingly real Megan Hamilton to talk all things visibility in your business.

Megan is a speaking, confidence, and visibility coach—and she brings some serious depth to this conversation. We get into the emotional weeds of showing up in your business and how to make it feel actually doable without doing forced TikTok dances.

In this episode, we dig into:

• What visibility really means
• The mindset blocks that keep us playing small
• How pricing your offers is a form of visibility
• Megan’s “visibility ladder” technique to take small, sustainable steps
• Why your energy is the strategy and how excitement = magnetism
• The uncomfortable truth about launches, sales, and business droughts
• That time we bonded over meat flowers and salami rivers 🧀

So if you're struggling to show up, feeling like no one’s listening, or just sick of pretending you’re not scared—we got you.

About Megan:

Megan Hamilton is a speaking, visibility and confidence coach, a speaker, a musician and the host and producer of the Embracing Enchantment podcast on the Women in Media network. She’s also the speaker advisor for the award-winning TEDxQueensU.

Megan’s Links:

Socials: @ubuskills for everything but I’m off X :) Embracing Enchantment Podcast IG

Megan’s website: https://www.ubuskills.com

Thriving visibility cohort 5 begins in September. Learn more here: https://www.ubuskills.com/thriving-visibility

Learn more about BizMagic or the BizMagic Podcast.

Transcript

Patti: Welcome back to another episode of the Biz Magic Podcast, your place for all things tech in your online business with solid. So General Biz Chat two. My name is Patty Meyer and I am the CEO and founder of Biz Magic, where my team and I support entrepreneurs who are overwhelmed by the backend tech of their business.

We create, implement, and teach the tweaks that help our clients make a bigger impact with less stress. Today we are talking about something that a lot of business owners and solopreneurs, I think especially tend to wrestle with in their businesses, and that is being visible, whether it's going live on social media, speaking up about what you offer, or simply showing your face more consistently.

Visibility is one of the most powerful ways to grow your business, but it's also. It's also one of the most uncomfortable. So to help navigate this, I am joined today by a very special guest, Megan Hamilton. She brings a thoughtful and empowering perspective to what it really takes to build confidence and show up in a way that feels aligned and sustainable.

Megan Hamilton is a speaking, visibility and confidence coach, a speaker, a musician, and the host and producer of the Embracing Enchantment podcast. I'm the Women in Media Network. She's also the speaker advisor for the award-winning TEDx Queens U And I've known Megan for about two years now. I met her through a client of mine, um, at a retreat, and it was so great to get to know her in person.

She is just so lovely and she's so smart, and I'm just so excited to have her here. So we're gonna talk about. What visibility means in business, the kinds of fears a lot of people have around that, and some tips to build confidence in showing up in your business. So let's dive in. Hello, Megan. I'm so happy.

Hello, Patty. I'm so happy

Megan: to be

Patti: here. It's so, so nice to see you. I know. It's nice to see you and to chat with you and and to get to chat about business things with you is also very exciting 'cause we met in the business circles. So we did awesome.

Megan: Yeah. Kind of a business circle. Yeah. I felt like we met in a circle of food or so should I say a mountain of food?

Patti: It's true. We, we met at this retreat, which I mentioned in the, in the intro. We met at this retreat with, with my client that, uh, Megan was also working with. And the first night we were at this retreat, the charcuterie bread mountain, I think is more accurate, was. Bonkers and we just ate from that for days.

Megan: Days, literally days. It was. Unbelievably amazing. Yeah. It was like, it was, it was on par. And we joked about it at the time of, with that Oprah, um, episode where she's like, I love a charcuterie boy. We were like, oh my God, this is the best. And how many of us were there? Like

Patti: seven or eight? Yeah, there weren't many.

And it covered the entire island of a counter in a nice sized kitchen. It's like four tiers. Yeah. It was bunkers and it was so good. So delicious. Like, so delicious. It was so good. And we learned how to make salami, rivers, and Yeah. Flowers. Yeah, meat,

Megan: flowers. Just what everybody, I. Really Once, yeah. Is a meat flour.

I actually do do those at home now when I make a little charcuterie board for our family dinner.

Patti: I've done a Salami River since then. That's true.

Megan: Just ties it all together.

Patti: It

Patti (2): really

Megan: does. It does.

Patti: Um, so well, why don't you start and tell us a little bit about you outside of your love for charcuterie and, and meat flowers, um, and kind of what you do and how you got into doing it.

Megan: Yeah, so I am a speaking visibility and confidence coach. I am the speaker advisor for the award-winning TEDx Queens U. I am a musician and I'm a classically trained actor. And I am the host and producer of the Embracing Enchantment podcast, which is a podcast all about, uh, magic and meaning making and hopefulness.

So I started doing this speaking work and visibility work. Uh, so when I work with small business owners, we work from a sort of visibility and confidence starting point. There is speaking training in there, but that. Develops the visibility and confidence points. So yeah, I started working with people on sort of performance coaching and speaking.

In 2014, I was working with law students, uh, at a university. Uh, I was already working at the university and the law students were doing some performance things and I said, who's. Helping them and nobody was. And I had wanted to, for a while, take a look at all of the training I had from my, uh, classical theater, um, university time, because even at the time we had felt like this stuff is really important and we don't learn it anywhere else.

Mm-hmm. I mean, most of us had public speaking in grade school and in high school, but. When I tell you that I don't know what the percentage is, but I would say like 25 to 30% of people I see have some kind of residual shame or fear or frustration or something. Mm-hmm.

From

Megan: their high school teacher who was thinking that they were doing the right thing probably, but ended up trying to like force people to do things in a way that they weren't comfortable with, which just enforced the fear even deeper and so.

You know, unlike a lot of other speaking programs, we actually take a look at that stuff. Uh, when you work with me, because I am so tired of people feeling like they're garbage speakers for their entire lives because they're just using tips and tricks, which are kind of good for the moment. They get you through, but they never get you to the point where you're feeling like.

Oh, oh, I'm really, I can actually do this. I, and not only that, like I'm getting something out of it, not just getting through it. Uh, so I like to figure out where this stuff is coming from and then be able to untangle and, and, you know, um. Pull at the threads of, of that stuff.

Patti: Yeah. So, so when we talk about visibility in business, what does that mean?

Right. Because that looks different, I think, to everybody. So like mm-hmm. As we talk about visibility today, let's create a loose definition around like, what does it mean when, when you talk about visibility in business. Sure. So

Megan: let me tell you first what people think it means. So they'll be chatting with somebody and they'll say, oh, I'm really interested in your program, but I am, I don't wanna dance.

And, and, uh, point on TikTok. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, great. You don't have to also, probably shouldn't do that if it's gonna feel weird to you, right? Essentially, visibility is the confidence to be able to, uh, promote your business in a way that is congruent to you and your values and the forward trajectory of your business.

Hmm.

Megan: And so it could look like going to networking meetings and introducing yourself to people. It could look like having an Instagram account or doing Facebook Lives or. Doing workshops. Uh, it could look like giving talks at different events. So, and that could look like a TEDx event. It could also look like, uh, conferences or other networking events where you get a chance to talk about what you do or what your values are or what makes your business different or why, you know, people might be interested in it.

Um. It looks like launching a program and showing up every single day on social media and in emails and working through your fears of bugging people or seeming conceited or self-involved, or you know, taking a selfie and worrying what other people are gonna think about you. It's all that stuff, but essentially it is allowing yourself to continually.

Grow your circle so that folks can know who you are and what you do.

Patti: Yeah, and I think what's great about looking at it from that perspective is, is I agree when people hear visibility, I imagine it's like the social media and it's being like, oh, I have to be giving speeches and giving it, but it's not. I think it, there's so much about it that's just learning to show, literally show up in your business.

And a way that makes sense in the way that you need to show up in your business. And that's really hard for a lot of people, especially I think people, it would be hard just starting out or I, I loved also how you kind of talked about kinda past shames or past experiences that, that lead us to feel uncomfortable showing up.

Right. We, we hear all the time people talking about imposter syndrome and so I think that, it sounds like that that is kind of a part of that, or a symptom of that in a way, right? Of you feeling like. You have to be comfortable with yourself. You have to be able to talk about yourself and talk about your business to get through that imposter syndrome.

And I still, I mean, there's all sorts of, you know, I love talking and doing this podcast and stuff like that. Oh, but my gosh. To, for me to go stand up in front of a group of people, that's a whole different story. So I think there's different ways to

Megan: show up, right? Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And I mean, I think one of the things to remember, and it kind of sucks, but uh, is that it's always evolving and always growing, and there's always a discomfort point.

And if you know, you feel like you wanna get to a level and then you're just gonna coast, but as we said earlier, it doesn't matter what the level is, the coasting. The stagnant.

Yeah.

Megan: That's where things start to shut down. That's where your business is gonna start to have holes in it and start to notice a drop off and engagement in it.

Um, you know, not as many clients and so many. I put out a newsletter yesterday. I had surveyed a bunch of small business owners in my email list, like, and I think I called it like, so how's your business? And I left it anonymous on purpose so that people could feel. They could really talk about it because like everyone's gatekeeping on social media, they're acting like they're killing it.

I felt like a couple years ago there was more honesty, but now it's almost like because of the economy, because of the state of the world, um, everybody's feeling like they need to show that they're doing really well so that people will work with them.

Mm-hmm. And

Megan: I've like doubled down. On the opposite of that.

Yeah. Because I'm like, I got no time for this. I see you claiming to be a seven figure business owner that's gonna guarantee that I'm going to be a seven figure business owner and like, fuck no. Yeah, you're lying. So I started to talk about, last year was really, really hard for me. Mm-hmm. I had two failed launches in a row after the most successful year I'd ever had.

Then I had a zero month in January when I was supposed to be launching a pretty successful, uh, program that I run. I pushed so hard, I got, uh, 90% full and then it came time to pay. And over the course of four days, every single person backed out for reasons like reasons. Wow. Yeah. Right. Uh, this is real bad because I put everything into that and then I worked so hard to get those, to nurture those folks into that place.

And then, I mean, that was gonna be the next four to five months of my revenue, right? So, um, so I kind of freaked out. Then I thought, okay, well I'm gonna finally do this in-person program that people have been asking me for for years. It's called Big Voices Masterclass. It's like basically a public speaking course.

It happens over four weeks. And nobody bought it. Yeah. And that's when I was like, 'cause I think that was April, right? Mm-hmm. It was my 50th birthday. That's right. I remember that. Yeah. It was a rough time. Mm-hmm. In the Megan Hamilton world. So, um, you know, it, it's important to know that those things can happen.

And I think there's two lessons from that. One is. Sometimes it's just gonna be like that and there's a reason why or, or a gazillion reasons why it's not working. Not everything has to do with you. Right, right, right. Like Absolutely. Yeah. Like there's actual reasons why people are not investing in personal development right now.

Right. Okay. I can take that, yeah. Piece off my shoulders. And also, I can't just not do anything. Right. I can't, like I have to figure out how to. Keep going because I need to pay bills and I've got a family and I have pets. And then I just started to really say to myself, what if, if there was nothing stopping me, what would I be doing right now if I could do anything?

'cause it felt like I was gonna start from scratch, which I, I didn't really, um, so I developed this coaching and tarot program 'cause you know, I'm a tarot reader as well. Yeah. And that felt so fun to me. And then it, the first round sold out almost immediately. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. And that was just, that was the win I needed to be.

Okay, I get it now. I need to be excited about what I'm doing. I need to have freshness, um, infused into every new thing. So it doesn't necessarily mean I have to reinvent the wheel, but it does mean I need to give something about it. That feels really exciting because that energy, in terms of visibility is what other people respond to.

Patti: Yes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You always have to be open to, and I've had an episode on this and, and, and kind of because of my similar experience where 2023 was gangbusters highest revenue ever, and then 2024 was like, what? You know, that's so hard. Yeah. It was so hard. And, and 2025 is. Kind of chill for me. It's not like, but it's not like, woo, let's go.

It's just kind of hanging. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, I'll take it after 2024. I'll, it just hanging like stable. Yep. But it, it does lead to, but then what, so what next? And like you're saying you can't, there, there's a point at which you have to. Change something, something's gotta move, something's gotta shift, something's gotta give.

And so you've gotta show up in a different way and you have to figure out what that looks like, right? Mm-hmm. And what is that you And, and I think that important part about it is doing what makes sense for you. And I love that you kind of stopped and we're like, well, what? It wasn't a, let me take all the advice that everybody says I should do next and what, you know, when you're not getting this and I should get a pro coach and I should like, whatever it may be.

Right? But you were like, if I could do anything. What would I do? Right? And those are kind of the the things I'm exploring, which is why I'm doing podcasts. Like that's why in the middle of all that I was like, fuck it. I'm, I loved doing my podcast and am I getting any money from it immediately? No, but it's gonna network, it's gonna have me out there.

It's, and that was my, my goal is I, it expands my visibility to new audiences, to new people, and I get to feel fulfilled doing something I love and talking about stuff I love. And so that was the right thing for me and I love it, and I'm having such a great time doing it. And so. Finding, I think those areas to show up that are really authentic to you is, is so important when you're going about this.

Megan: Yes. And taking risks. Mm-hmm. So on the other side, once. This Arcana Pathfinder program started working. That's when I hired a bunch of, I mean big names like I reached for the Stars. It was, and they said yes, brought them in, created these mini workshops, and then that allowed me to have this fresh infusion of excitement for the program, but it still wasn't easy.

I think I had 30% booked. Up until the deadline. Oof. And then people came in after the deadline. Oh. And I had a long runway. I had like six weeks. People just aren't paying attention. Yeah. They're just not paying attention. And you do have to do, and so this is another piece of visibility and confidence. I had to go back in DMS and be like, and not gross like.

Hi, you're a business owner, so am I. I can help you. Like people I had relationships with where I said, Hey, I'm just letting you know. I know you didn't said you were interested in this at one point. There's folks coming in after the deadline 'cause there's still some space. Happy to tell you more if you're interested.

No worries if you're not. You know what I mean? And that's how I got people in.

Patti: Yeah. It's so funny because it's such a, for me, and, and a lot of people in our kind of circles that we, we run in right, are like, we're not really into icky sales and, and that sort of thing. And so it can feel hard to, even in business, like even until probably recently I was uncomfortable even saying, oh, to try to get sales.

And it's like. But like, this is a business that I'm trying, you know, like, yes, I'm doing something I'm passionate about, I'm doing something to help people and all of that, and mm-hmm I have, this is what I've chosen to do to make a living so that I can spend all of my time continuing to help people and do good.

Otherwise I'm going and doing something else that maybe I don't love and is not helping is, and making the impact. So we have to reach this point where we can comfortably talk about. Making sales and making money without worrying about being sleazy and, and salesy and all of that. And I think you do that when you're able to talk about it in a way of like really understanding and respecting the fact that you are here to create value to offer something.

And if you really believe in that in yourself, then it's a lot easier to talk about. Mm-hmm. What you're offering and how you're offering it. And. And not being afraid to talk, talk about the price tag. Not being afraid to talk about, well, this is what you get when you work with me in this way. And it's, it's all about the intention.

I think that's behind it.

Mm-hmm. So much

Patti: more than than anything else. Absolutely. And you know,

Megan: I, I think that the, um, reaction to the word sales, which, you know, I don't love it either. Yeah. I think that comes from. Folks who have seen the way other people do business and don't love it. Yeah. And so there is definitely a patriarchy, heavy, capitalistic, heavy way of doing business, um, which is.

Icky because you've probably been on the other end of some kind of pitch, or 20,000 if you're on LinkedIn. Right, right. Or you get on the, like the, you know, the kind of folks that would tell you to never let somebody leave a sales call without. Without saying yes, like that kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. Um, I don't know how people do that.

And when you, when you are thoughtful about how you price things, then you can, and, you know, there's always a little bit of tension if you tell somebody a price. Like I, I, um, I got on a call the other day with a, a local small business hub and they were really excited. This is, it's a long story, but this has been like a year and a half of conversations, the.

The director kept leaving and it was a new person and blah, blah, blah. Then they forgot the Zoom, whatever. Finally, we get on this call and she's so excited about bringing me in to do this workshop, and she's like, oh, I should probably ask what the price is, and I said, oh, it's $3,500, and she just. Her just, her whole face changed.

Like that was not what she was expecting. Um, and in my head I'm like, you need me because I need to help people understand how to price things. Because if you're telling them what to price and that feels high, you should, you, you need somebody else to do this. Um, and it was uncomfortable.

Patti (2): Yeah.

Megan: But I was like, you know what?

I know that this is worth. The price that I put it on. I also know there's other people out there doing 10,000. I also know there's other people out there doing 250 bucks and I know what I'm bringing to the table. And if you don't have the budget, that's okay. Mm-hmm. Four years ago, Megan. Might have been like, oh, you just tell me then what's your budget and I'll work with it.

Oh, it's a hundred dollars. Okay. Yep, yep. I'll make it work. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So the ability to say no when you know that it's just not worth, yeah, I mean, I am flexible sometimes. Mm-hmm. Especially when it comes to, um, the opportunity to meet with different groups of people. 'cause we know that, that, you know, expands your network.

Um. But there is something of value to knowing why you've priced something the way you've priced it, knowing what other people are pricing so that you can contextualize yourself within that framework of like the lowest and the highest. And, uh, seeing it confidently like. Numbers that, you know, that's why I think overpricing can be really tricky because you get people who feel like they need to, I don't know, like puff up like a peacock to sort of like sell themselves and it

Yeah.

Megan: That's when everything, the vibes are off, right? Yeah. And you know, like to be very woo in that case. Like if the vibes are off, you, you, you're gonna invest $25,000 with somebody for a year just to be like, feel. Icky around them. Right. Hell

Patti: to the know, right? Yeah. Because you're not gonna, what you're taking away from that is what you're feeling.

And it's not gonna get better if you're already going in. Right? Like if you already are having doubts or feeling skeptical, you're gonna see all the negative shit anyway. So like that's what you're gonna get from it. Whereas if you're going into something and you're like excited about it and you're like, yes, like that's what you're gonna take from it.

And that's the same thing of like, I always say that to people when we talk about. Um, when, when I talk with clients about social media, right, and they're like, oh, I don't wanna do it. I'm like, well, don't fucking do it then. Like, maybe social media isn't the place for you to show up because you're gonna, what make videos or things like that.

That's energy that you're putting out there. Who's gonna follow you If you're just like, hey, like, you know, like, I think totally like, do what feels good for you, because that's who you're gonna attract and that's, that's what you want, you know? So. So kind of talking about like at how you work with people with within kind of their visibility and their confidence and building that up.

Like what are some of the, the roadblocks that people hit when they are working with you? Like, what are, what are their fears around their, that visibility or the roadblocks that they hit when they work with you Yeah. That you help them out of.

Megan: Yeah. So usually there's, um, it's, it's, most often it boils down to a fear of judgment.

Mm. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Your high school friends are on your Instagram page. Um, the people who knew you in a different job are following you. The bullies are following you, exes are following you. So yeah, fear of judgment is almost, I would say like 90 to 95% of what it is. Uh, a lot of people will, um, hide.

I, and I say this with lots of compassion and, and, um, love, uh, hide behind a label. Mm-hmm. I'm an introvert, right? Guilty. Yeah. Same. Um, I'm an introvert and people are like, no, you're not. I'm like, I am actually. Mm-hmm. If you look it up, I'll explain to you how I am or like, I can't do that, or I don't wanna be.

Like, I don't like those videos, therefore I don't wanna do those videos. It's like, great, let's not do those videos. Let's talk about the videos we can do.

Patti (2): Yeah. You

Megan: know? Um, but one of the biggest things, and you touched on this earlier, is why is what you do important?

Yeah.

Megan: I know that with coaching I can help you figure out why something feels so sticky for you.

And once you know that you can actually make a plan to work through it. Yeah. But until you know that, if you keep avoiding the root of where all this stuff is coming from. You're just gonna be stuck in this situation where you have labeled yourself as not good at this. Could never do it. Always been bad at it.

An introvert. Um, not, not salesy, you know? Uh. Like, you don't have to be any of those things. There's a million other things you could be, yeah, there's a lot of folks out there who are introverts and they will, you can still show up on a video and talk about something that's important to you. In the same way we're having a conversation and you can talk about something that's important to you, trying to help yourself think about.

The value that you offer to folks. So it's not just, you're not just helping people figure out how to, um, run their business well, right. You are figuring out how to help people run their business well, so they can have a beautiful life. Right. That's meaningful.

Right?

Megan: You are helping, 'cause I know you're a, a values aligned person.

You want to also enjoy working with the people that you work with because it's a mutually beneficial, there's reciprocity there of like, it's really nice to hang out with you, Patty, because you're a good. Fun, funny person, and it's nice to be around you and let's talk about business stuff. And once you start to actually realize that and it goes beyond, I want you to give me money to what I have to offer is a fair price piece to your.

Happiness and freedom and doing things the way you want to and into an economy of reciprocity where we know that the folks that we're supporting often give back to the community in really meaningful ways. It's not just about making bucks. Uh, and, and not that it isn't either, because I think the money exchange is really important because I know when I pay for things, I show up for them.

Yep. Yep. And so I feel the same way. You know, I, I could do a million free things, but I have, yeah. Um, yeah.

Patti: And I like when you talk about, like, looking at the value that you offer, and I think that that's something that when we talk about price, like we're doing so much of this podcast is talking about pricing, but, but that's such a part of it, right?

And I've never thought about pricing as a sense of visibility, but it is. You saying, this is what I have determined, my services, my offerings worth, and that is visibility. Mm-hmm. I've never thought about it from that perspective, so I really love that we're kind of touching on that and the idea that when we talk about pricing, we're like, okay, well what.

What is this worth and what are other people charging for and that sort of thing. But when we look at it from a value where we're taking our, because here's the other thing. Okay. I have a couple thoughts happening with it. So one is we put our own personal value that we've deemed, which is our own shit and why.

I agree, therapy is really helpful when dealing as an entrepreneur, if you're so privileged to be able to do that. But you know, you have to take your personal value away from that, and you're looking at. What is it that I'm offering? And you're looking at the longevity of that offer, right? Like in this moment, well, it's only gonna be an hour that we're gonna be on the call.

So how can I possibly charge $600 for an hour of my time? Yeah, but that's not what you're charging. $600. For. Mm-hmm.

You're

Patti: also thinking about all the hours you've spent learning this craft and this skill, and that you've educated yourself and that you've tried and failed and practiced, and what is it gonna look like for them?

Is it gonna, they're gonna walk away and do something one time and that's it? No, probably not. Right? They're probably gonna use this knowledge. Over and over and over again to help their business grow. And so I think when we look at it from that perspective, and we're able to really take ourselves as a personal value out of the picture, but as a skill and as a.

What you've gone through and what you've experienced to get here, instead of that like imposter syndrome and stuff and really just look at and what they're walking away with. It changes the game when you look at it from that perspective in pricing and how you totally can be showing up.

Megan: Yeah. And you know, an hour with somebody who's logged.

20,000 hours with small business owners Yeah. Is going to be more valuable than an hour with somebody who just got their MBA. Right, right. Absolutely. And I still. I love it from folks that I worked with. You know, at this point now it's been over a decade. I still get emails and uh, dms from people who are like, oh my God, I had to do this thing and I was feeling so nervous.

But then I remembered about Megan's training and I did the, you know, I have a four-part speaking training system, which is basically the same as it's been for the last 11 years because it is just so powerful and effective. Uh, and then. And they remember it, and it gives them the opportunity to really succeed in whatever moment they were feeling.

A bit of self-doubt or whatever was happening. I tell you what, nothing makes me happier. I mean, okay. I. Thought, maybe some things make me happier, but like it is a true joy in my life to know that there's times when somebody has the tools that they need in order to do the thing that they're trying to do with their life, uh, which, which gives them the opportunity to towards freedom, um, to, to move away from a system that wants to rip out.

All of their autonomy, all of their, um, you know, their energy, their ability to think for themselves, their ability to make choices for themselves and their lives. Um, it feels so good to be a very small part or to have imparted a very small piece towards that. And, you know, when I think about those moments, yeah.

This is X, Y, Z amount of dollars and you will be using this, you know, for 20, 30, 40, 50 years. There will be opportunities in your life for you to bust out this training that you don't even know about right now. Yeah. Uh, and it is, ugh, it's feels really good.

Patti: Yeah. The other thing I, I find when it comes to pricing and, and that sort of thing in your business, is it when you set something I.

That you actually feel aligned with as far as the value of it. You're also giving the opportunity for that other person to show up for themselves, right? Mm-hmm. And you're allowing them, you're giving them the opportunity to, to say, I value my business and my skillset and what I, where I wanna go enough to invest in this.

Because that's the other thing is that you are assuming by. Trying to low ball yourself is you're kind of almost insulting other people that they aren't going to be able to afford this particular price and that they aren't going to be able to step up and show up for themselves. And so when you show up for yourself in that way, you're giving somebody else the opportunity to do the same thing.

And I think in that case, when you look at it. That's a selfless thing that you're doing,

Megan: right? Yeah. Very selfless. Yeah. It's like the old, uh, the old idea of, you know, if you show up as your weird self. Everybody else can show up as their weird selves. Yeah. Right. If you, whoever is gonna be first in the group to do the weird thing so that other people can be like, oh, you're one of us.

Right. And then that's when the magic happens. Oh my God. Nothing worse than a group of people who feel like they need to mask and just sit there talking about there's no statistics and ROIs and like. Oh my God. And also those things are, we love those things. Yeah. Those things are actually really interesting.

But I wanna talk about them in my way. Not in your way, which is only gonna be about dollars and cents. Yeah. Or that there's like no value in anything unless it has some kind of like monetary return on investment. Mm-hmm. That's the other thing I say to folks, uh, when they wanna work with me. Especially if I'm working with small business owners.

'cause I don't only work with small business owners, I work with speakers, I work with, um, folks who just wanna do better in their leadership position. But, um, I say to people, the, the ROI on, this is not monetary

Patti (2): right

Megan: necessarily. Right. In your small business, you are probably going to notice growth. I can't, I have no idea how much your business is gonna grow because I don't know how much you're gonna.

Be able to do in, in our time together. Right? Yeah. Um, I have a pretty good idea. I know that I'm gonna show up for you as, as deeply as any human can.

Yeah.

Megan: But I'm not putting numbers. Like I, you know what I, when you see people who are like, I'm gonna get you to six figures, seven figures. Yeah. You're not though.

Yeah. And I can't guarantee that there's no way you can't. And not only that, like I need you to ask me better questions before to know. What if I've only got 50 people on my email list? Mm-hmm. What if I've only been in business for six months? What if I've never taken any kind of business training at all, and I don't even have like a bank account or a business name.

Um, you're gonna get me into six figures if I get fork over 25,000 bucks. I don't think you are. Exactly. Yeah. I think you're lying. And I think you're not giving the whole truth. And this is, you know, um, that's where, that's where I get on threads and I just say to people, this isn't true. Yeah. You're not telling the truth right now.

I do not like that, by the way. Yeah, they don't love it.

Patti (2): I don't. That's what makes it more fun fucking care.

Patti: It's true though. It's true. I mean, there's so many, um. There's so many factors in mm-hmm. Business success, which is why I'm always, every fucking episode practically, I'm preaching about not believing what everybody says and following what everybody says because.

You are your own person. You are your own business. Your audience is your specific audience, and there's just no way mm-hmm. That you can compare yourself exactly to anybody else because there is no other you, there is no other your business. And so. You have your, which is also what makes you unique and makes you your value in your business, right?

That's the stuff that also makes you special in that way and your type of weird, right? Like that's it. And so you have to really think about, okay, so what is it that I do? Differently and, and why? Like you pick and choose your business advice. You pick and choose your, the same as you pick and choose your life advice.

You know, like, mm-hmm. Oh, that doesn't fit for me because I'm a woman, so I'm not going to listen to advice for a man. But you're gonna, in a business, it's all gonna be the same, but it's not. Right. It's not like, I think we forget that. Mm-hmm.

Megan: Well, in the same way that, you know, if somebody offers a $10,000 product, that's gonna make you lose a hundred pounds in a month.

Mm-hmm. You're gonna have a little bit of a thought on that. I'm going to see if I can find, I got four questions that I wrote on threads that everybody should ask. Before they buy a really expensive program, one, where do I find the people who will buy this offer? You're teaching me how to create. Hmm.

Because yeah, I can know how to do it, but I don't know how to find the people. That's gotta be part of it. Two, what is the difference between the new offer and the ones I already have? Selling a 200 is different than selling a $6,000 thing, a $25,000 thing, likely a different audience. Yep. Three. What business fundamentals and experience will I need to have to know to make this work within my field?

Okay. If you have no experience, no with emails or an email list, and that's gonna be your main source of nurturing folks. You're gonna need a lot of help with that. Yeah. And for how long of a nurturing process will this take? And how many people do I need to bring into my fold per sale? 'cause that's something people don't talk about either, right?

These folks that are making a million bucks on a $27 course, they are spending. Gazillions of dollars in ads, but they also have huge email lists that they have purchased. Mm-hmm. From people or that they have like, you know, somehow brought in, but we're talking huge email lists. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so they're gonna sell a bunch of $27 things, but that's because they have that amount of people already in their bucket.

Right. Right. For you to get that same amount of traction, you are gonna have to put in four years of work just to build up that list. And this is the stuff that they don't talk about ahead of time. Yeah. Yeah. And they're like. You'll get into the course and then they'll be like, okay, well just prepare that for the next four years.

You're gonna have to do it, and then you'll make your blah, blah, blah. And, um, and I, it's not right. It's not, not

Patti: right. I agree. I agree completely. I remember like in my in early business Patty, baby Patty days of like just learning about like online courses and things like that and I was like, you know, fantasizing like, oh, I'm just gonna make a course and I'm gonna all these people and I'm gonna make thousands and thousands of dollars because that's what they say.

But I didn't stop to think about where the hell are these people coming from. Mm-hmm. Like, how are they, how are they learning about my course? Mm-hmm. Like, there's just magic sprinkles that, that are happening everywhere. And they're just gonna learn my name and learn and be like, you are the person. Let me give you, you know, that's just not, that's not how it works.

And kind of going to what you're saying of, you know, it takes years to build up that visibility, to build up that credibility, to build up just, I mean, what it takes to get in front of that many people. The, the formulas for that are just not consistent. And sometimes luck is big in that, oh, luck is huge, huge luck is huge.

And on top of that, there's you like. What, what about copywriting? Do you have any skill in copywriting and what does that look like? Are you able to write copy that is going to capture people's attention? Are you able to, uh, verbalize what your offer is and, and say it in a way that makes sense? Do you know about market research so that you can understand, oh, this is what my people are saying and how they're using the terminology and that's what I need.

Like, there's all these pieces that go back to what you're saying of like, well, what is your actual experience in doing this? Like. They're all things that we have to learn over time. Mm-hmm. And so we can't just start and take a program and be like, ta-da I, I have all these things. It would be fucking amazing if we could.

Yeah. Amazing. But it's just not how it works. The same as any other experience. It takes time for you to learn things and like we just don't magically have all the business skills just because we started business and it sucks and it's hard. And that's. That's why unfortunately a lot of businesses don't make it very far.

Um, so if you're still in business, congratulations and that's amazing and keep plugging along and trying to do the thing because that's what it actually takes. There is no magic pill. Um, you know, and it's kind of like similar with artists in that like people can be some, like I, I was surrounded by artists in San Francisco when I lived there, and like, they were so talented and so incredible.

But that doesn't mean anything when it comes to making it in the art world. Like it's so much about where you happen to be and who happens to see your work. Mm-hmm. And that's hard and that sucks, but it's kind of similar in the way of like sometimes there's a lot of luck involved in that and you have to be in the right place at the right time and that helps you a lot as well.

Megan: Yeah. Well, as I come from the art world, and so I come from theater and then music, uh, and self-promotion is really a hard sell. Yeah. For artists. I'll give you a very quick story about visibility, um, when I was a musician, because I think this is really helpful sometimes for people to remember because there's all the strategy in the world in terms of knowing what works for your audience, knowing how to nurture people, and then there's just.

Sheer dumb luck and yeah, weird miracles that you don't know. There's so much happening behind the scenes in any given situation, you just don't know it. Mm-hmm. So back when I was trying to, um, really make it as a musician. I would play probably, uh, anywhere from one to three shows a week in Toronto. So there's like so many venues and I was just trying to get to know people.

I was trying to play shows and get good. I was, and I wanted, uh, media to know me. And I had experience being a theater producer for years in writing press releases. And this is back in the day when that's what you do. I wrote a press release for every. Single show I ever played, and I cultivated my list. I, I kept adding to it.

I was really careful about it. And I, nobody ever replied to me. Nobody came to shows. Nobody. You know, like some I would get when I put it in a new record, like it would, they would get reviewed and stuff, but it's not like I was not on anyone's radar. Yeah. As far as I knew. Right, right. And then one year I was playing a festival and.

I had no idea this was happening. Somebody called me and they were like, do you know that you're in the now, this year, this week? And I was like, and they're like, you're in the one of five to watch for this huge week long music festival.

Wow. I had

Megan: no idea. She hadn't told me. Um, and I was like, with bigger names and me, I had no idea it was coming.

And it just happened. And so there's always like, like keeping that sort of hopefulness that the work that you put out will come back to you. It just doesn't always look like the way that you're expecting it to. Yes. That is, that's biz magic. Mm-hmm.

Patti: Yeah. And I love kind of having kind of, because we've, we kind of went on a little tangent there and kind of a not so all the, not so great stuff about business sometimes, but I know, I think it's kind of nice.

To, you know, get close to ending on like a positive note, which is that, and it's something that I've learned a lot too, especially doing podcasts and things like that, um, or social media, is that I, I. Do not have a lot of engagement on any of the things that I do, and it's crickets. I do all this stuff and I keep doing it.

And again, I'm doing the podcast because I, I love it. Mm-hmm. And some social I do because I feel like I have to, but I do it in a way that feels good. All that to say that I assume nobody is listening. I mean, now my stats tell me some people are listening, but. I would have these conversations from the first time I did the podcast and then just in general from social media where I'd talk to somebody outside in the real world and they'd say, oh yeah, that episode where you talked about blah, blah, blah.

And I was like, wait, what? You listened to that? Or, oh, that post where you taught about this? I'm like, you could have hit the like button. I know, but my point is that you showing up. Is seen whether or not you realize it.

Yep. '

Patti: cause what I end up finding out is there are so many people who say things to me just all of a sudden when I'm randomly talking to, I'm like, oh, I loved when you talked about this, or, oh yeah, I listened to every episode.

And I'm just like, what? That's amazing. Mm-hmm. And, and, yep. But they do. They don't always engage. You don't always know. And I think that's a really great example of like, you just keep doing it. You do it because you love it. You show up because it's what makes you happy. It's what makes you excited, and it's what your way of giving to the world or whatever reason you're doing the work you're doing and trust that it is working and it is happening and you don't always.

See it immediately. Sometimes it takes years. Sometimes it's just a conversation with somebody. They're like, oh yeah, I learned so much about this thing and I always come to you when I need this, and, and you just have no idea. Yep. You know, the same as so many people don't know. That you're inspired by them or they're impactful to you.

You don't go and tell everybody that you ha that make an impact on you. Right? They

Megan: just do. I mean,

Patti: I

Megan: do, but I know that not, I'm all over celebrities. Instagrams, it's, I know that people would think it's cringe and I don't care. I would love to read those messages that I write for people.

Patti: Right. I love that.

I have, there are certain friends I have that will message me and just be like, I just want you to know that was an amazing episode. Just because you should know, and I love that so much. You're one of those people, you know, I'll get emails from you. They're like, this is so great, and it just makes me, those little things, they make a difference.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, they do. Yep. So this has gone very long, but I think it's very good. So, um, really fast. Is there any like one tip that you would give somebody that's just now gonna say, okay, how I'm gonna start trying to show up in my business in some way? Mm-hmm. That, that's uncomfortable for me. Do you have like one tip or lesson that you could teach them to take the first tiny little step to do that?

Megan: Yeah, I would. So I have something called a visibility ladder. Um, and basically it's where, where you're at and where you wanna be. Mm-hmm. And then what are the steps to get there.

Patti: Yeah.

Megan: And so let's say where you're at is no social media, but you would like to have social media. You just feel nervous about it, get an Instagram account, and, and, but you wanna get to the point where you can do reels.

I'm just putting this out there. First step, get an Instagram account. Second step, fill in your bio.

Third

Megan: step, put a picture of yourself on there. I. Fourth step, just start messing around and getting to know, you know, um, following people that, you know, you already like, stuff like that. Um, and then, you know, probably the biggest, uh, difficult step is gonna be like the first picture you post, or, you know, uh, the first time you introduce your, uh, your business to Instagram and like.

You should just know that probably no one is gonna see it.

Patti (2): I was thinking of the same thing.

Megan: And that's great news. Yes. Yeah. Because if you go back to my early Instagram days, it is ludicrous. It is so ridiculously, not even anywhere remotely close to what I'm doing now. It is like. It's like clip art and like Yes.

Patti (2): Hundred percent. Because

Megan: that's

Patti (2): what they did though, is you would show like little quotes and little cartoons and Yeah. Stuff like that. That's what you did mine too.

Megan: And you can watch the evolution. Yeah. Right. And just know that it's part of the process. It's gonna feel weird. It's gonna feel uncomfortable until it doesn't.

Yeah. And then you get to Coast for a while and then it's time to grow again. And it's, um, but, but just do that visibility letter for yourself. Where are you now? Where would you like to be? What would be the steps to get there and work at a pace that is not we, the thing we never wanna do is really activate our nervous systems.

'cause that just solidifies for you that you're not good at this.

Patti: Mm. Yeah. Told

Megan: you I sucked at this and I do suck at this. And now I, you know, like, and my body is telling me that I suck at this because it, it's just like making me feel bad. Yeah. So instead. Work in a way, you're gonna be a bit uncomfortable, but we wanna aim for like teasing the edges or your own capacity for triggering your nervous system, right?

Like I feel like I have a pretty good capacity for that now. I know how to get grounded fairly easily. Um, like I'll spike. Quickly, but then I, I'm like, okay, it's time to reel it in and get grounded. But that's from years of practice and tons of tools. Um, but I still get activated. So you've gotta work with, um, you've gotta know yourself and you've gotta work within your parameters and, and know the, and commit to the fact that it's an ongoing process.

Stuff's gonna take longer than you think it will. It's frustrating, but it's just part of it.

Patti: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. This has been such a great chat. I love it. So nice. Oh, I love talking to

Patti (2): you.

Patti: If somebody wants to work with you or mm-hmm. See you showing up somewhere, where can they

Megan: find you? Well, uh, if you're a small business owner, the next cohort of thriving visibility is in September, 2025.

And, uh, there's, there might still be spaces left, so you can head on over to my website, UBU letters, UBU skills.com. Uh, and I also have a way of working with me for three months, one-on-one. That can help for folks who don't love group programs, uh, and we work on your visibility, speaking skills, confidence, and we can put it through a business framework if that feels like something that might be more manageable to you.

'cause everybody's different. I happen to think there's a great value in working in group programs, but sometimes I also just wanna be one-on-one. 'cause I just wanna be able to get like the full-time on my thing. Yeah,

Patti: yeah, yeah. I love it. This will all be in the show notes as well. And thank you so much, Megan.

It's been, thank you.

Megan: Yeah, it's nice to see you. Hey. Yes.

Patti: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Biz Magic Podcast. Like most small businesses and podcasts, we rely heavily on word of mouth. So if you like what you heard today or in any episode, please share with your friends and colleagues. And rate, subscribe and comment on your favorite podcast platform.

Till next time, cheers to your magical biz success.