Relationship Marketing: Building a Brand Your Clients Love with Hunter Myers

You ever think about how branding is basically dating?

If not—get ready to have your brain lit up. In this episode, I chat with brand strategist and unapologetic dating-analogy lover Hunter Myers of Verdure Design Co. We get into the juicy details of how relationship marketing can help you build a brand that not only looks cute... but keeps clients coming back for more.

We talk about:

• How to build genuine client relationships that actually last
• What “branding” really means (hint: it’s not just your logo and colors)
• How I almost broke my own brand by forgetting this one key relationship rule
• Using love languages to boost client loyalty and keep the spark alive
• Why it’s okay (and GOOD) to repel people who aren’t your people
• When to DIY your brand, and when to call in the pros

This conversation is packed with honest insights, relatable stories, and practical ways to create a brand experience that feels like a perfect-fit relationship—not a one-night stand with a CRM.

About Hunter: Hunter Myers is the founder of Verdure Design Co. and your go-to "branding wingwoman" who transforms forgettable businesses into magnetic brands that clients can't resist. Blending her background in English, Sociology, and over a decade of design experience, Hunter treats branding like dating—helping entrepreneurs create authentic "profiles" that showcase what makes them special. With her refreshingly real approach, she guides business owners to find their brand voice, attract perfect-fit clients, "dress to impress," and create relationships where both sides can't wait for the second date.

Links:

Hunter’s website: verduredesignco.com

@verduredesignco (IG, Threads)

Youtube

LinkedIn

Hunter is speaking at a virtual summit the 23rd-25th of July, all about the Brand Matchmaker method we discuss in this episode. Learn more here.

Hunter hosts a virtual AI-Powered Customer Clarity Workshop she mentions in the episode. Learn more here. In this 2-hour, hands-on workshop, I walk attendees through the process of creating buyer personas based on what they already know about their ideal clients. We go through the same activities I take my 1:1 clients through, with the help of AI, so they can walk away with a clear buyer persona at the end.

Learn more about BizMagic or the BizMagic Podcast.

Transcript

Patti: Welcome back to another episode of the Biz Magic Podcast, your place for all things tech in your online business with solid. So General Biz Chat two. My name is Patty Meyer and I am the CEO and founder of Biz Magic, where my team and I support entrepreneurs who are overwhelmed by the backend tech of their business.

We create, implement, and teach the tweaks that help our clients make a bigger impact with less stress. Today's episode is all about relationship marketing. How building genuine connections and treating your brand like a relationship can lead to long-term sustainable business success. If you've ever felt like marketing efforts we're falling flat, or if you're looking for a more aligned way to attract and keep.

The right clients for you. I think you're gonna like the conversation I'm gonna have today because I have a guest who brings a really unique and refreshing perspective to branding, and it's one that centers. Connection, clarity and authenticity. And my guest today is Hunter Myers. Hunter is the founder of Verta Design Co.

And your go-to branding wing woman who transforms forgettable businesses into magnetic brands that clients can't resist. Blending her background in English, sociology, and over a decade of design experience, hunter treats branding like dating, helping entrepreneurs create authentic quote unquote profiles that showcase what makes them special.

With her refreshingly real approach, she guides business owners to find their brand voice attract. Perfect fit clients, quote unquote, dress to impress and create relationships where both sides can't wait for the second date. So as we chat today, we're really gonna talk about what it means to create a brand that clients feel connected to, and why long-term growth starts with really intentional relationship building.

So let's dive in. Hey Hunter, thanks so much for joining me today. Yes. Thank you

Hunter: for having me, Patty. I have been looking forward to this conversation so much.

Patti: Yeah, I love talking about branding and I do website stuff myself, so I love kind of hearing other people say. But first, let's start. Can you tell me a little bit more, I gave an intro to the audience, but just tell me a little more about you and how you kind of got started doing all of this.

Hunter: Yeah. Yeah. Well, my name is Hunter Myers. I'm the founder of Vi Design Co. I've been doing this for about five years. I do like to tell everyone that I kind of tripped and fell into entrepreneurship. Um, this was not my plan. I actually, I have a, i, I have a tendency to trip and fall into career things, actually.

Uh, so a very, a very. Quick condensed version. I actually went to school for English and sociology. I thought I was gonna be a writer. Um, prior to that I was in school for journalism and I was like, huh, I don't like this enough to put myself through this. Um, so I'm gonna switch. And I did English and sociology and I moved down to Austin, Texas without a job lined up.

Um, and I was like, I'm gonna be a writer, dammit. Like I'm doing this. And I got there and applied for writing job after writing job after writing job. And was either ghosted or heard? No. After? No. After, no. And I was like, oh shit. Like my savings is running out and there is no way in hell I'm moving back home.

I've gotta find, I gotta find something else. And I saw a graphic design position and was like, you know what? Like I've been doing art my entire life. Sure. I don't have a degree in design, but. I'm sure I can figure this out. Plus another no is not gonna hurt me at this point. Like I need a job. I applied, they were like, oh my gosh, we love your portfolio.

You know, will you come in for an interview? And I, meanwhile I'm like, you have got to be kidding me. There is no way this is actually happening. And I went in for the interview and we all hit it off and that's how I kind of started in graphic design. And then as many. I think entrepreneurs and business owners started their business as COVID hit.

I got furloughed. I was like, you know what? I don't really like working for people. Maybe I should try and do this on my own. I've been doing this for a while. I understand how this works. Um, I was a contract worker for quite some time before being W2, so it's like cool. I I kind of know the tax side of it, like, let's, let's do this and I've.

I've loved it. It's been such a journey. I have learned so much about myself developing my own brand, uh, the things I've been able to provide for clients that a lot of my clients consider me, uh, kinda like their business matchmaker of sorts, which is something that I've actually really started to lean into in the brand.

Um, and I'm sure as we talk you'll see more of these dating analogies come out. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's been really cool helping clients. Craft brands that not only make them feel a hell of a lot more confident, because every client I work with, with whenever they leave, they're like, oh my gosh, like I finally feel good in this.

But also is something that is designed specifically to attract the people they work best with. Yeah, like my whole goal is making sure that what we build for you builds a long-term connection. With the clients you're trying to work with. And that's something that I've, you know, figured out again over these five years of, okay, here's what works, here's what doesn't work.

Yeah. I'm sure we'll dive into that too, but seriously, again, Patty, so excited Yeah. To be chatting about this.

Patti: Yeah. And I love that you, you talk about things from this sort of dating perspective because it is actually something that. I say when I am talking with clients or potential clients, is that it when, especially when you're working with like a service provider, it is like dating because.

You have to speak the same language. You have to have the same type of communication. You have to be able to understand each other in various ways and get along and have similar uh, values and goals and alignment. And there's so much about it that you have to have a real connection. And it is ideally, especially when working with long-term service providers, which is what Biz Magic does a lot.

Um, it is a relationship that you're building and the longer that I am working with somebody, the better I know them and their business and the better I am at, at, at being able to serve them and support them in a way that actually is more impactful. So I really love that you're talking about that from that perspective, and I'd love to hear more.

Um, of your thoughts on looking at it from sort of this dating I,

Hunter: yeah, yeah. Well, something that I found as I was talking with a lot of clients is I, I work with us sometimes a lot of, a lot of newer entrepreneurs and so they're not like, these people didn't go to business school and I get it. Hey. I didn't either.

Again, English and sociology background folks, you know, like they didn't go to business school. They don't understand these terms. They're already overwhelmed by everything that the internet is telling them. Yes, they need to learn how to do. Yes. And I was like, okay. We have got to find a better way to communicate what this marketing and stuff looks like.

So I love that you talk about dating from the, again, client relationship standpoint. Mm-hmm. And I talk about dating from a broader marketing standpoint.

Patti: Yeah.

Hunter: Um, because I have found that it's just so much easier. Like while not everyone has had experience in business, just about everybody I work with has dated somebody.

Right. Okay. Some of them, me has dated many. Right. So it's. You learn so much and being able to pull from those experiences and kind of have that picture in your head. Makes number one marketing feel a lot less intimidating. Yeah. Right. Because you at least know, you're like, okay, I don't need to learn any additional jargon.

I don't need to show up any different way. Right. Like I just need to understand that I am forming a relationship with someone. Mm-hmm. There are different phases. I call it that, like the courting process. You are there to port your customer. Yeah. That is what is happening. You know, we wanna make sure also as part of my framework we're working on you.

You gotta work on you first before you try to bring anybody else into this thing. I love that. You know, like there's so many pieces of like dating and business that coexist and I talked to, um, people as well about like your CLV. So again, I'm gonna throw out a business term. I'm like customer lifetime value.

And when you view. Your marketing and the relationships with your customers more is a romantic relationship where you are courting them, where you are getting to know them better, where you are. I, I talk about, I'm actually writing a book. I talk about, uh, how the love languages can be applied to your marketing to make sure that you keep sparks alive with your customers.

Like the whole goal is to increase that customer lifetime value. Now, if you don't know what that is, anybody listening, essentially this is the. Amount of money that a customer is going to spend with you over the extent of time, like the length of time that they interact with your brand. Right now, the goal.

Is to increase that number. You want to increase the longevity. And again, if we think to the dating analogies, like the goal of dating someone, at least in, you know, if we think like western culture right? Is to get married and have your quote happily ever after.

Patti: Right? Right.

Hunter: Like that's the goal. That's what we're all fed in our Disney movies.

I know. And it's super realistic. Right, right. But the ultimate goal Yeah. Is to form this partnership and be together for. A long period of time. Yeah. And so that is the same goal. In business. Yeah. And you'll see parallels in the kind of that courting process, right? Like you've got your first date moments, you've got your kind of honeymoon phase, you've got the marriage.

And a lot of people think that the marriage between you and a customer, your brand and a customer, is that first purchase. But that's not actually the case. It is when that customer is committed enough to your brand. That they're not going anywhere, right? Like they're telling people about your brand, they're bringing you additional customers, and all of these elements tie together to create a brand ecosystem.

Which is what I help my clients do. That works for you. Um, but also your customers, because something that I find a lot, and no shame, no shame to anyone who does this, but we, we look at customers kind of as paychecks. Yeah. Right, right. Like in business, we have bills to pay. Mm-hmm. We all have bills to pay.

Yeah. That is part of running a business. And we can sometimes. Lose sight of the fact that these customers are human beings on the other side of this. Yeah. And they are forming a relationship with your brand, whether you like it or not. And the question becomes, are you going to show up as a good partner or a bad partner?

Right. Like, are you gonna be an ex or are you gonna be the person or brand of, right. Yeah. That's, that's the goal of what I do with my

Patti: clients. Yeah. One of the, and, and I'm gonna keep building on this because I think it's a really. Powerful way to change the narrative of the relationship of customer, um, and provider.

Right. And I had this experience where, so, so right, I started as a solopreneur, kind of fell into an agency, right? And. So it, I went through a period where it scaled really quickly and so I was, you know, hiring client managers and things like that to kind of account managers essentially, and. I just didn't do a great job at continuing to check in, and I was so relationship driven and driven until that point that I was always very hands-on with my clients, so I always knew what was happening.

If they were happy, what their challenges were, I was able to come in and support them. In that transition of growing in the way that I did, I was, I, I lost that connection a little bit, and so what happened was I didn't maintain that ongoing communication that is important in all relationships. When you get to that marriage phase, when you get to that, that area where you're past the honeymoon and you've settled in and you've got your routines and you're doing things you kind of take for granted.

That other party. And in this case, I sort of took for granted that I needed to still be checking in and, and making sure that they were happy that they were supported. Because sometimes when issues come up, people don't always say them out loud and they build and they build and they build until they blow up.

And then. You lose your marriage or you lose your client. And so I had that happen, and so it was a really challenging time for me, but a huge lesson that I think is very comparable to what you're saying, because I had to step back and now I'm like, okay, go. Cool. Whether or not I am a the account manager for them, I'm checking in every single month with all of my clients as, as the main person in my business and saying, how are you?

What can I do to support you? Better talk to me. Tell me what is going on, and making sure that that line of communication stays open. So I really love it because that's that. Is a part of my brand now of maintaining that relationship. And it's, and I guess it was, um, it was a break in the brand because I, that was what they signed up for was what?

That that's what they, they saw, but things changed and so that consistency lacked. And so I think it's very relevant to what you're saying because it's very similar.

Hunter: Absolutely. And I love that you bring up that it was a part of the brand. 'cause I think people don't think about this. Yeah. And it's one of the huge misconceptions that drives me up a wall, uh, that people think that branding is just essentially the way that you look.

Right? It's your logo or your colors and your fonts. And that's just a small part of it. Yeah. Like. Branding is what people are saying about you when you are not in the room. Yeah. And for you, they were buying into that relationship aspect. And so when you bring on a team and when you scale, you have to make sure that that like, which is a core value then for you and your clients.

Mm-hmm. Is part of your branding documents. Like, this is, this is how we do this, this is what our method is. Like all of that plays into. Your brand. And I think again, it's just, it's looked at or overlooked. Yeah. Too often and is one of the. Like key factors that keep people there. Your customer experience.

Yeah. Like that is part of your brand. That is what people remember. You and I tell people all the time, like guys, you've got, you've got more competitors for your customers than you do for a romantic partner. Everyone's sitting here freaking out. The romantic partner's gonna get stolen by somebody else, and I'm like, your customers are ready to jump ship at any moment if you are not.

Providing for them the way that they expect to be provided for.

Patti: Yeah.

Hunter: And it's huge. Yeah, it's

Patti: huge. So if you are, are working with a client or somebody who's never thought about brand outside of my colors, my font and my logo, right? Which is the, the kind of base level that people think about when they think about their brand, right?

Where do you start in that sort of educating them on, okay, this is, this is what your brand is as a whole and this is how we get to. Started in building this, this brand that, that you don't have identified yet necessarily.

Hunter: Yeah, so the first part of really any conversation that I have with a client, whether they understand that branding is so much more than just the visuals or not, yeah.

Is Hey, who are your people? What's your type? Right? Like, who are we trying to attract? Who do you like working with? And. Trying to get them to shift their focus onto the other person. Mm-hmm. Right? Like for a relationship to successful, yes, you need to have your boundaries and everything. We could talk about that all day long, but you also have to make sure that the other person that you were in this relationship with.

Is at the forefront of your thoughts and decisions, like this is a partnership that you are going to be forming. We need to start shifting the mindset to, okay, who are these people? And so I spend a ton of time. With clients figuring out, okay, who are your ideal buyers? We create, uh, so people call them like their avatars.

I'm like, no, we are making buyer dating profiles. We're not messing around here. I want your match.com level profile of who we are trying to attract. If you don't know, like I need you to hop on calls. With people. We're gonna sit down. We're gonna look at your past customers and clients. Who did you like working with?

Who did you not like working with? Okay, let's work out those personality traits. Mm-hmm. Right? Like we are going to fine tune this as clearly as we can. And sometimes, sometimes I get some pushback. I get some clients who are scared 'cause they're like, well, it sounds like we're niching down and I serve everybody.

Mm. And I'm like, let's pause for a moment.

Patti: Yeah.

Hunter: You would not walk into a bar and say, I will go home with anybody here tonight. Okay. Yeah. You would not do that. Yeah, you wouldn't. And as much as we want to think that our service is for everybody, or our product is for everybody, there truly are certain people that.

Will benefit best from the product and certain people who are not going to be a headache for you, right? Because we wanna make sure that you like your business as well. And if you are serving everybody, just like if you're going home with anybody in that bar, I promise you at least one of those experiences is not gonna be a pleasant one.

Right? Right. Yeah. Right. And so really, really shifting the focus, getting them to start thinking about the, thinking about the person. On the other side of this transaction and this relationship, and that starts to open doors of, okay, wait a second. Because we don't touch, like, I don't touch visuals with my clients until well into the process.

Mm-hmm. Like the whole first part is this client experience. We do some competitor analysis as well. Like who, who are we up against? You know, who else, who else is out here looking for dates too? Okay. Like, how are we gonna do this? Um, we talk about values as well, like just really anything. That's not visual.

And eventually I'm like, don't worry guys. Visual part will come. Yeah, I promise. I know. That's the fun. It's the fun part for me. It's the fun part for most of my clients, like, don't worry, but we've got to nail this stuff down first because all the visuals, and this is another mistake that winds up happening.

The visuals need to be based on not just your like I want you comfortable in your business as well, but what is going to attract? These people that we just talked about. Right? Right. Like that is so important. And where I see a lot of newer businesses mess up is they'll pick colors or fonts or things based on what they like.

Right. And I'm like, if you are making products, let's say that appeal primarily to. I'm gonna say hyper masculine, grungy dudes. Right? Like, if that's your product and you are slapping a pink logo right. On what you're doing, I'm like, we've, we need to sit down and make sure that that is, that that is really what you want to do.

Patti: Right. That these hyper masculine, grungy men are like pink. Yes.

Hunter: Right. You know, like there, there is a disconnect that happens. Yeah. Um, and again, you know, I want you to like. What we make. That is, that is my top priority is that you like what we make. Yeah. Seems sense. Second priority is, and I'm like, it is like right below that top priority is that your customers also like what you make.

Right? So again, there's, there's a lot of stuff, but the main focus really is let's get you in the shoes of your customer. Let's get, let's get your type nailed down so we can do the rest. From there. And typically that will kind of kick them out of the, well, it's just a logo, right? Mm-hmm. And sometimes, sometimes not.

We gotta do a little more work, but Right, right. Yeah. For the most part, that will do it.

Patti: Yeah. And I, I really like the point you're making because I feel like it kind of goes back to. Where you said, you know, looking at customers is just a paycheck. It's kind of the same thing of, okay, well if you're just looking for your goal to be, I just wanna get married and I don't care who it's to so that they take care of me, or whatever those sort of societal old ideals are.

You are probably not going to have a very happy, successful marriage. And it's that same sort of thing of I'm big on saying you are not for everybody. And that's okay because I don't wanna be for everybody. I am not palatable, right? So as we started before we hit record, you're like, Hey, I swear is that cool?

And I'm like, my people. Come to me because that doesn't bother them because that's not something that I hide. And so therefore, I'm not attracting people who are gonna be like, oh, my clutching their pearls because I said, fuck. Right? Like, and that's good because I don't, I don't want those people, not that they're not welcome, but that they, we just won't be as much of a fit.

Right? And that, that's okay. It's okay for us to attract people. Who are drawn to us because it is going to be better all around and you are going to be more successful in the work that you do when you have people who are your people. Exactly. And that's the other part of it is you can have somebody who's not the right fit for you.

And guess what? They're gonna nitpick the stuff. They're not going to like the work that you're turning out or the, the, the, the end result because you're not the right. Fit. And so let them, if you want to be here to serve people or to provide them with a service or a product, then set them free to find the service and product that is going to make them happy.

So, so, and then give you the space to find the, the same, right.

Hunter: Right. And I, I think it's important to note, like, we all struggle with this in the beginning. Oh my God. Yeah. Like I am five years in and I am a, ugh, a chronic people pleaser. I'm trying not to be, I'm working on it. We're doing a lot of work. Got therapists left and right.

Yeah, kinda help me through

Patti: this.

Hunter: And it, it bleeds into business. And I think, I think women especially can fall into this trap of, well, no. Like, I, I need to be liked, I need to not upset somebody. I need to not offend somebody. And I think as you get more comfortable in what you're doing, as you get more confident in business, 'cause right, like being able to repel people requires confidence, right.

And a security right in yourself. And I'll tell you like in the months that I am. Making well above my revenue goals, it is far easier to be like, mm-hmm. You know what? This is actually not a good client fit. I need to move on. Right? Like, you're gonna have moments like that and, and that's okay. Yeah. You know?

But ultimately in your messaging and in your branding, the marketing parts of it, so not just your sales conversations, but what you're putting online, where you're showing up, it is Okay. For some people to not be into it. Just know, again, those are not your people. Yeah. They're not your people. Your people will come.

Mm-hmm. You just gotta figure out where they're at and start speaking to them. Um, but yeah, I. Again, five years in, I still sometimes struggle with this. So, and, and this is my job folks, right? Okay. Like, my job is to help people repel certain people. And I'm over here like, but can I? Yeah.

Patti: Yeah. And it's, it's okay.

And it's harder when you're trying to make money because Right. And that's where it can. I'm definitely cloudier and muddier because we are here to, especially if we're working for ourselves and we're relying on this full time, it's hard to turn away people when you're like, yeah, but I kind of need the money, man.

You know? And, and so, hey, it's okay too every once in a while to let somebody in and do what you need to do, and that's okay as well. But what we're talking about is building the brand that's going to attract a certain type of people. A person who lights you up, who allows you to do to love what you do, like you went into business to do something you love.

Like, you wanna keep loving it. And so making sure you're working with the right people is, is a part of that and loving your brand. And I mean, when I work with clients who have a website that I do a lot of refreshes and re, you know, um, rebuilds and they come to me and they can't, their website is stale or doesn't take clients and convert.

All of that. And they walk away and they're like, oh my God. It feels so much like me. It allows you to show up in a whole new way. 'cause you are like, when you have a brand that embraces you, it gives you more confidence because I think what's cool about. When you go deeper into these processes is you get to actually learn more about yourself, right?

Yes. Which is kind of what you're saying too, of like you gotta get yourself in line. But I think going through these processes of not just picking your own, picking colors that are like, oh, I guess I like that color, but like really thinking about who you wanna serve, why you wanna serve them, and what kind of values you're looking for, and all of that.

It allows you to get to know your. Self better and it forces you to get to know your, your business better or develop more about your business that maybe you didn't think of. Because sometimes when we fall into business, we don't think about those things 'cause we're like, I'm just gonna do this thing.

But there's a point at which it's important to kind of stop and be intentional with where your business is going and, and, and what you want it to look like, and therefore your marketing to be intentional with that and how you're attracting.

Hunter: Yes. And I'm actually, I'm so glad that you bring this point up and this is the direction that the conversation is headed because I think it's, it's also important, and this is something that I wish was talked about more in the branding space as brand designers.

Like I think we have a responsibility here when you are first starting out. I almost always recommend that you not hire a designer because you don't know. Mm-hmm. What is going to happen in your business and to do these deeper dives to get this professional help and for it to be done well? It is going to cost you Yeah, money, and please, like, spend time experimenting.

I have seen the number, the number of successful businesses that I have seen who don't have great branding. Is high. Yeah, is high, which means you can do it. Okay? Like you can, you can DIY it for some time until you fully understand and you've got the experience under your belt of, you know what, this, this offer sticks, this offer works.

People want this. And these are the kind of people that I do and don't wanna work with. And now I've got some capital. 'cause that's the other thing, like, please, please anybody listening, like don't put yourself into a ton of debt at the start of your business. Yeah. On branding. Like if you're gonna go into debt for something.

Learn sales, okay? Mm-hmm. That is what you need first and foremost when you start a business, because most of us starting businesses are not salespeople, right? Like that was not what we got into business for, right? Then, once you have experimented and practiced and know who your targeting or have a general idea, you know, it doesn't have to be perfect.

That's what hiring someone, you know, the forest through the trees, they're gonna help you see some of that. That's the time. To invest. Um, it's, which is why I oftentimes don't work with people who have only been in business for a year because I'm like, I am. Learn from the mistakes of many. Okay. Including myself, like I, again, I'm a brand designer.

I changed my brand multiple times in the first couple of years. Yeah. Until I landed where it felt right, because I was learning about my audience. Now, of course there are exceptions, like if you're gonna open up a brick and mortar, um, if you are like patenting a product or something like that, it's a little bit different.

But most businesses can operate. Just fine DIYing in their first year until they get that experience under their belt. Again, you are you, I would bet money on the fact that you are gonna change in that first one to two years.

Patti: Yeah. Yeah. And even more than that. And here's the other, the piece of it that can feel uncomfortable is that you will likely change again and again and again.

And so to have the comfort and the understanding that. Doing a, a good branding session. It's gonna last you a bit, but there's gonna probably be a point where some of that stuff's gonna change again because just as again, equating it to sort of that relationship piece. Just as two people grow and grow apart or grow together, you're going to grow as a person.

Technology is going to grow. Your industry is going to grow and change. So much is gonna continue to change that. The nature or look, the economy is. Is the world is gonna change and, and you might have to pivot and change based on that, and your people then might change your audience. And so I think understanding that, and that's not to say don't put the money into it, but understand that.

It's not necessarily gonna be a one and done forever thing, especially if you're gonna stay in business for a long time, is you're gonna probably have rebrands, you're going to do this when we see big companies do this all the time, and we as consumers sometimes get uncomfortable with it because like, oh, I don't know what, what are you doing?

ConvertKit just did this, right? They changed from Convert Kit to kit. And everyone's like, ah, you know, like, but we'll get used to it and we'll get over it. And there's a reason that they did it and that they were changing the direction of where they're going. And so. It's that same thing, so be comfortable with the fact that it's gonna change again in the future, but it's worth it because of, of everything that it brings you.

Hunter: Absolutely. I mean, your business and your brand is essentially a living entity. Yeah. It is constantly going to grow and shift, which is why like if you're gonna get into entrepreneurship, you've gotta be comfortable with Pivot. Yeah. Like Pivot is a big part of running a business. It's a big part of developing a brand.

Um, and again, be okay with experimentation. Yeah. Like some things just aren't gonna work. That's gonna be okay. 'cause you're gonna find in the things that don't work, the few things that do. So really leaning into those being brave. Like you are brave enough to start a business. If you are brave enough to start a business, which you were, you are absolutely brave enough to try a new marketing tactic or test out a new platform, or consider launching a new offer, like mm-hmm.

You're going to grow, just like you said, like in a relationship, you and your customers even may grow apart, may grow together. You and the business may grow apart, may grow together. Like there are so many interlocking pieces to this puzzle and you are building it as you go, which is exciting. Right? Yeah.

But also can be a little scary 'cause you don't have the box to look at. Right. Right. And that's okay. And I think that is again, another place where. Speaking with professionals and getting some insight outside of where you are. And also insight outside of just social media because I wanna, I wanna caution people listening, and this is a soapbox that I will step on for just a brief moment.

Go for, um,

there are a lot of self-proclaimed experts online, and they're gonna tell you what they need to tell you to get you to buy something. Again, like I have seen how the marketing sausage is made, and I am still a sucker for a good ad. Mm-hmm. Okay. You have to find the people that resonate with you, find the people that they have worked with, and make sure that they're legit and.

Consider taking a breath as well when you are consuming information about what you should be doing in your business. And I say this as someone who's trying to learn to practice this myself.

Patti: Yeah.

Hunter: Like you've gotta be able to take the pause. I mean, you can, you all can hear how quickly I speak. My brain moves like 10 times faster than this.

Like I'm always go, go, go, go. And I'm having to learn, especially in, you know, this kind of. Mid phase of business, the ability to pause and realize, okay, what, what actually works for me? Who do I need to speak to? Who I can trust? Who's going to help me see the blind spots that I am having right now? And who can do that in a way that feels comfortable and.

Feels like it has integrity, and I think that's, that's the big piece. So just be careful what you see online. Find experts who can help you, but make sure that they are actual experts and they have the proof of expertise because we've lost, in my opinion, the 10,000 hours expert.

Patti: Yes,

Hunter: and we've rebranded this term expert, and so just be careful as you're out there.

This is not to spook anybody, obviously, but this is, I'm like, and warning here and here and here. And

Patti: don't forget the fine print here. I do the same thing though. I say the same thing. So I just had an episode come out about All In Ones, and I, at the end had a little spiel about that where I was like, yes, they're great in certain ways and for certain people.

And you have to watch out for the people who you hire that are like, oh, you should just get into system io. Or, oh, you should just get into go high level because they're affiliates and they're making money and they're not paying attention to whether or not this is good for you. It's good for them. And so they leave you so often in, in a weird position.

So I, so I'm with you on that, and I agree that it's important to really, and this goes back to finding sort of your. Authentic voice, your values and all of that, because we can listen to all of these people and take in the information because there's gold nuggets in everything, but. To do everything that somebody says.

Be careful there. Yes. 'cause what somebody says works for them is what works for them and their business, and you are not them. And your people are not their people. And your business is not their business. And so. It's gonna look different for you and that's why it's important to take the time and say, because you know, when I do my like low level of branding with people, I get a lot of people that will say, oh, well I love the colors on their website and I love the way they do this.

And I'm like, yeah, me too. That's great. And how can we do this for you? Because this works for them. Right? And it's not going to work exactly the same and feel exactly the same for you. Right. And so there's always that piece of figuring, like taking it and interpreting it for yourself in some way so that you're more successful, I think.

Hunter: Exactly right. Like filtering it through your lens, your needs, your desires, and applying it in a way that best. Fits you.

Patti: Yeah.

Hunter: And that's, I mean, that's all businesses. Yeah. It really is. It's, it's again, testing, learning, seeing what works for you, pulling in that client and customer building that relationship.

Yeah. And then. Moving forward from there and refining, right? Like, we're constantly polishing. This is what we do.

Patti: Yeah. Yeah. So kind of speaking to that, and we've talked a little bit about right, sort of that like, I, like I used my example of the long-term relationship and, and all of that. Like, so how then in, in the, the capacity of branding and marketing do you.

Uh, advise people to help keep the spark alive for long-term relationships with these clients, right? 'cause you've talked about that. So how do you do that? So you've got the brand, you've got the initial thing. So now how do you, from that perspective, keep it going?

Hunter: Yeah. Yeah. So earlier I mentioned a little bit about, um, the love languages and how those can be incorporated into business because again, your customer is another human being.

Humans want to feel special. We do not wanna feel like a number, a cog in a machine, your paycheck. Like, we want to feel special, we want to feel taken care of, and just like, and. The love language theories have been debunked in some ways, but I think that they are still very applicable here in the marketing space.

'cause you've got like your words of affirmation, um, your quality time, you know, gifts, acts of service, um, and physical touch, and all of those can be brought into your client communication process. Yeah. To add special little nuggets to that experience for the client, that makes them feel like more than just a number to you.

Yeah. For example, so I've got a client right now, he's writing a book and I'm, I'm his graphic designer. I'm not his book editor. I'm not anything like that. Right. Like I am, I do graphic design for his business. I operate his brand. That's what we do. Yeah. But he was writing this book and I was like, I am going to, I'm gonna review this.

Lemme just read through it. I need to read through it anyways to know if the graphics he wants to create are gonna, you know, align with what we're doing. And in doing so, I was like, Hey, like I think there are some ways that we can improve these, these pieces here to make this even stronger. Mm-hmm. I was not being paid.

Right, right. You know, I wasn't being paid for that. I wasn't being asked to do that, but it was a space that I thought, Hey, you know what? This can make this stronger and more successful for this client. Let's have a conversation about it. Right. It could be, let's say you've got a product based business. Uh, one of my favorites Is it, oh my gosh, what is the name of it?

I think it's Overnight Oats. They do, uh, they do a really good job on social media and one of the things that they do. Which creates, I think, so much hype for their customers and following is they do their, um, like their packaging videos and they show that they're putting everything together for this client and then they'll throw in like an extra thing or two for them to try.

Patti: Mm-hmm. Like

Hunter: that, that little gift. Right. This person didn't pay for that. They also weren't expecting it. Mm-hmm. Either. Mm-hmm. And I think that's, that's the true key. Now, like I want to caution as well, um, don't. Don't let yourself get taken advantage of. Right. In this process, like there is a difference between going a little above and beyond and like scope creep.

Patti: Right. Right, right, right. And creating an expectation that Yes, that puts you in an uncomfortable position.

Hunter: Yes, exactly. But sending a handwritten thank you card.

Patti: Yeah.

Hunter: You know, like, uh, for some of my branding clients, depending on what package they get, I'll send them at the end of our. Our process together.

Um, like a little gift of like their, maybe like stickers with their new logos or something like that. Yeah. Just a little extra something. Yeah. That feels above and beyond, like, I'm not forgetting about you. Yeah. Like this was just the start of this relationship together. Like, let's keep going. And similarly following up, you know, like.

Sometimes clients won't reach back out when they do need something. Right? Or I've had clients where I've seen resources. I'm like, this would be you giving money to somebody else, but hey, I saw this thing. It reminded me of your business. Mm-hmm. I think this might be useful or beneficial to you, and things like that, that just remind the client, you mean something to me.

I'm looking out for you. I am in your corner cheering you on. I want you to be successful. What can I do to help you feel that way and to feel like. You are more than just a number. Yeah. And so those are, those are just a few. Again, I'm, I'm writing about them in my book, so when it launches, if you all would like to read more, let me know.

Yeah. Um, and I talk, I talk pretty extensively about those different level languages and how they can be applied to what you're doing, um, to keep that spark alive past. The purchase point.

Patti: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I, I think about the love language thing because Right. I know that there's been a lot of that debunking with it and everything, but I think like everything, when you use it as a tool to, to get a little more information about yourself, about somebody else.

That's huge. I think it's the same thing as anything of the moderation idea of like, you don't need to put all of everything in one focus with on one tool all of your eggs in one basket, but using some different tools to help inform can really change

Hunter: the game. Exactly. And just working them. I know you, you talk about systems, working them into.

Your system and your process. Yes. Like finding ones and I, I always tell people early on, like just pick what is the easiest Yeah. For you to do. What is the easiest little above and beyond thing that you can do. Yeah. You make your client experience just a wee bit better.

Patti: Yeah.

Hunter: How can you work that into your system to make sure that you're consistently doing that?

Because, I don't know, I don't know about you guys listening, but I, I get so excited. I get so excited about new ideas and I wanna try to implement everything, right? Like I throw everything on my plate and then I panic. Yeah. And I'm like, oh my God, we've gotta clear the plate. And what I'm telling you from my experience.

Don't do that. Right. Pick the easiest thing, get consistent with it when that no longer feels like a chore. Yeah. Add another.

Patti: Yeah. Again,

Hunter: we are playing the long game here. We're not looking for one night stand clients. Right. Like we are playing the long game in your business with these customer relationships, and that means you can take things a little more slowly.

It'll benefit you. It'll benefit the customer. Yeah. It'll be something that is actually sustainable. Yeah, as well. 'cause that can be really challenging in business. Mm-hmm. Um, so that's, that's my recommendation. Yeah.

Patti: Yeah. Absolutely. So is there anything else that, like, any little quick tip or anything like that, that we haven't talked about that you would offer to somebody who maybe is just starting this journey?

Either how to find the right person or just something to think about as they start to, to build their brand?

Hunter: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So again. Keeping your customer at the forefront of your thought process, your customer, and your values. Those are the two things. There's a number of exercises that you can do.

Um, I've got a blog post on my website that talks about how to find your values. Um, I really think though. Testing things out, sitting down, making a list of like clients or customers that you really liked working with and the ones that you didn't like working with and listing out those characteristics is going to be one of the most eye-opening activities that you can do because that's going to show you the kinds of people you need to be targeting.

Not just like, oh, I wanna work with women in their mid thirties, who. Don't have kids. Right. Like that's, that doesn't tell you enough. Right. But if you're going through and you're like, actually, uh, this client here paid me on time and mm-hmm. I noticed that they were a really big fan of this brand. Okay.

That tells me a little bit more about them and just starting to write down those pieces that would be. The main thing, I am actually hosting workshops now. So we talked about the economy a little bit. I was like, I've gotta find a way to help people who are not at the point where they can do my one-on-one services with me.

So I created this workshop. It is a customer clarity workshop where we do this together. Like I am there in the virtual room with you, walking you through this process. Um, we incorporate a little bit of AI again. It is a tool, not a replacement, folks, um, to pull out some of the things that you may be missing because again, when you are operating a business, especially if you're a solopreneur, there are a lot of things that you don't know.

You don't know. Yeah, right. There are a lot of things that you miss because you don't have another mind that you are bouncing ideas off of. And that is what this workshop is for. Um, so again, I've got activities on the blog for. The values, but least sit down and do that. Clients, I love clients. I didn't love activity.

Yeah, because that's gonna give you some clarity that you didn't realize you had.

Patti: Yeah. And even thinking about, I liked that you kind of said the point of they paid on time. Because even thinking about those things of like, oh, this was a client who respected my boundaries. This was a client who wasn't always asking for, you know, same day turnarounds.

This was a client who. Got me their shit on time and you know, communicated well with me about what they liked and what they didn't like. You know, all think about it from that perspective as well, and not just sort of these surface characteristics like you were saying. I think that's a really great point.

Yes,

Hunter: exactly.

Patti: This has been super, super awesome. What a great conversation, um, is if people want to see the workshop or uh, just find you work with you, learn more about you, how can they find you online?

Hunter: Yeah, yeah. So I have my own podcast. It's the brand by podcast. I've been putting episodes actually up on YouTube.

Um, so if you wanna subscribe there, uh, also on Spotify and Apple Podcasts as well. Um, you can find a lot of my resources on my website. I mentioned my blog, so verger design code.com. Um. I assume you're gonna have show notes, right? Oh, I'm gonna be in the show notes as well. Okay. I was like, people, people do not know how to spell or pronounce the name of my business.

So you can find, you can find a lot of resources on my website. I'll make sure that I share the workshop link specifically. Um, so, and, and also that link to the, the value blog posts. You guys don't have to search super far for it, so it's very easy to look up. Um, you can also find me on Instagram as well.

I'm actually transitioning. Off of Instagram as my main platform and using YouTube, um, just because I don't like keeping up with the Instagram Joneses, so we're switching gears. So those are the main ways to get in contact. I also have a newsletter as well. It's, uh, it's friends with branding benefits.

It's the FW branding.

Patti: That's brilliant. Brilliant.

Hunter: So if, if you want me in your inbox, not in your pants, um, feel free, free to come on over. Um, my team and I write biweekly, biweekly emails there, but really. Anyway, I am happy to chat with anyone. If you've got additional questions, please do not hesitate to reach out.

I love talking about this stuff. I am here for it here to cheer you on in any way that I can, whether it's working with me or working with someone that I know in my network, like I just want everyone here to be successful.

Patti: Yeah. I love it. Thank you so much. This has been so great. Yes, thank you. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Biz Magic Podcast.

Like most small businesses and podcasts, we rely heavily on word of mouth. So if you like what you heard today or in any episode, please share with your friends and colleagues. And rate, subscribe and comment on your favorite podcast platform. Till next time, cheers to your magical biz success.