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The Big Book Project
The Big Book Project is a multi-venue reading experience for bibliophiles fascinated by long or dense works of fiction and interested in discussing them with others, one novel at a time.
The works selected will be capacious novels from the mid-nineteenth century through today that possess an abundant writing style or complexity in structure and themes.
The notion that reading need not be a solitary activity has special resonance with these novels given that there is much to discuss, elaborate upon and question in the authors’ expression of ideas. I like to think of these novels as abundant because I appreciate their richness and volume, characteristics bestow a sort of grace to luxuriate with the text.
The critic and scholar Alexander Nehamas writes that when a work of art beckons, it is because we do not fully understand it but feel the strong desire to do so. And it is this deliberative process, the journey, of trying to understand why a novel is extraordinary that I want to explore with fellow readers at The Big Book Project.
We discuss books like Roberto Bolaño’s 2666
The Big Book Project
Confronting Atrocity: The Kindly Ones, Moral Complicity, and the Ethics of Reading Difficult Books (with Brad Costa)
https://substack.com/@thebigbookproject
In this episode of The Big Book Project, Lori sits down with Brad Costa, sales representative for W.W. Norton and an extraordinary reader, to discuss Jonathan Littell’s The Kindly Ones.
Brad brings a unique perspective as someone who worked in library archives with Holocaust materials, offering profound insights into the novel’s detailed depiction of bureaucratic evil, moral ambiguity, and the unsettling psychology of its narrator, Max.
Together, Lori and Brad explore the interplay between history and fiction, the coldness of administrative genocide, and whether Max’s intellectual rationalizations make him more or less culpable for his actions. They also dive into the value (and discomfort) of reading books that challenge us, the novel’s allusions to Greek tragedy, and what readers might anticipate as the story heads toward its conclusion.
If you’ve struggled to process The Kindly Ones, this thoughtful and wide-ranging conversation will give you fresh context for one of the most challenging—and important—novels of the 21st century.
Episode Highlights
📚 Brad’s archival perspective: Working with Holocaust materials shaped his response to Littell’s narrative.
🧠 Max’s moral ambiguity: Is it worse to be a true believer in evil or a cold bureaucrat?
⚖️ Greek tragedy & moral guilt: How the novel draws on classical ideas of responsibility.
❌ Academizing evil: Max’s tendency to intellectualize and rationalize atrocities.
🪦 Life and death in detail: The tension between moments of pastoral beauty and brutal violence.
📖 Literary echoes: Comparisons to The Painted Bird, Mother Night, Life and Fate, The Sea and the Poison, and Anniversaries.
🔥 Why read difficult books? Brad and Lori reflect on discomfort as a necessary part of meaningful reading.
Chapters
00:00 – Introduction: Meeting Brad Costa
01:07 – Brad’s background in Holocaust archives
02:59 – First impressions of The Kindly Ones
05:30 – The novel’s historical detail and Littell’s research process
08:37 – Max’s bureaucratic mindset and calorie calculations
11:46 – The human zoo and dehumanization in the narrative
14:24 – True believers vs. bureaucratic indifference
17:16 – Max’s dysfunctional personal life: Sister and mother dynamics
21:08 – Grotesque ironies and Max’s post-war life
23:14 – Thomas vs. Voss: Max’s moral compass
26:52 – Academizing evil as a psychological shield
30:38 – Sympathy for animals, indifference to humans
33:27 – Reading difficult books: Taking breaks and returning
35:28 – Beauty and horror in Littell’s writing
39:40 – Anticipating the end: Will Max ever reckon with his actions?
44:25 – Recommended books for further reading
49:51 – Final reflections: On hubris, denial, and moral discomfort
52:23 – Closing thoughts