Episode 9: Coach Steve Finesilver on the state of DPS and Marrero's looming contract extension

Transcript

Alan Gottlieb: 0:08

Hi everybody and welcome to the board talk. Podcast. Today we have a special guest coach Steve Feil from George Washington High School. Coach Feil is a 1974 graduate of GW and has worked as an educator in the district for 45 years. Most of them at his alma matter. Coach Feil is a well-known and beloved figure in DPS and his many community activities outside the workday Have one him widespread accolades and admiration. Coach Fein Silver has not been known over the years as a political actor or a political firebrand, but recently has felt compelled to speak out at a school board public comment session. Earlier this month, he addressed the board and said, among other things, during his allotted two minutes, and this is a direct quote from his testimony, Denver Public School has considering whether to extend the contract with superintendent Alex Marrero. A decision should be made only after we have heard public opinion from all of our constituents, families, taxpayers, faculty, staff, and students. Hear our voice. Hear our vision. Our schools are unsafe. A complicated discipline matrix allows students with documented violent tendencies to attend school without receiving emotional support or remediation. We make no effort to help them until there is an incident. Leadership has generated enormous and justified distrust. Teachers and staff facing challenges are not supported. Morale throughout our district is at an all time low. A few weeks later now the board is poised to take up the question of ROS contract extension this Thursday, May 1st, we are recording this on Tuesday evening April 29th. It appears likely though not certain that the board will take a vote to extend ROS contract. Those specifics are lacking. The board has rebuffed growing community unrest about the extension and the total lack of community input into the decision. Coach Feil joins us today to talk about the proposed extension in the current state of the district from his perspective of 45 years on the inside. Coach Feil, welcome. Let's start off by having you tell us a little bit about your history in DPS and some of your extracurricular community activities as well as the work you've done in the district.

Coach Steve Finesilver: 2:12

Thank you. I appreciate it. So I came to the Denver Public Schools after graduating from college and after a very brief tryout in the Canadian Football League, and I signed my first contract with the Denver Public Schools in 1979. My first assignment was at Gove Junior High School, teaching in a program called Hold Youth for Troubled Children who were trying to find their way out of the legal system and into high school. Interestingly enough, two or three of those students I'm still in touch with after a year at gov. I then went to Montbello High School for seven years. Even though I had grown up in the DPSI was not prepared for the challenges. And realized that there were children with needs that I just didn't have growing up. And so I learned very quickly on the job and through an association with my mentor coach Hall, who had taught at Smiley junior high school for 11 years. And I really learned what teaching was all about. And teaching is more than just giving information to children about subject matter. Teaching is about being there for families. Teaching is about celebrations. Teaching is about going through grief together, and teaching is about providing hope and being a hope giver. And so I learned very quickly what my role was going to be. And then as I told you earlier I had a commitment that I made to the families in Denver, but more importantly to my dad. And that was to be there for the children and families and to be prepared. To sometimes do something unpopular, to fight and advocate for what was best for those children and those families. After seven years at Montbello and a year at Gov, I then had the opportunity to go to George Washington High School, my alma mater teach at the same school I had attended, and essentially moved back into the neighborhood that I had grown up in. And most my whole career in Denver. I have been inside a five or six mile radius of where I grew up and where I went to school. And I learned then, and it's even more pronounced now, that we have underserved children, underserved families. Underserved and unrecognized neighborhoods. And I know this from being in the neighborhoods, I know this from talking to the families. And the story of starting two nonprofits. One is 33 years old Jobs by George Foundation and the story of somebody who believes in the system and is committed to young people. I. And who has been enriched by the young people and by the families that I've been with.. So I did reach out to Dr. Marrero two and a half years ago, and I reached out to him with a very nice letter. Asking for change in five areas and I never, I did not get a response for two weeks, so I reached out again and sent the letter to him and expanded the circle. And once I expanded it to four or five people, I was sure I would at least get a phone call and a response because I wanted to sit down and speak with the superintendent. I felt like I had information, I felt like I could improve things because I was voicing the concerns of by, at that point, hundreds of families. Nothing happened for two, two and a half weeks. And then I expanded the circle more. And because of great young people that I've taught and coached it, it began to hit people who were prominent nationally in the media and otherwise. And so once that email went after five and a half weeks. I did get a call from Dr. Marrero and we had a 15 to 18 minute, very frank and poignant conversation at that point that opened up the door. And I've had four or five rounds of talks with his people, people that are assistant superintendents with neighborhood and community people and with with a one of our board members. Those talks have been productive and they have agreed in theory to what I have had asked for, but there have always been excuses as, and so things have just begun to spinning and stayed spinning. And at that point I decided that I was gonna speak at the board meeting and that I couldn't stay behind the scenes anymore and that I had to do whatever was necessary. To change what I now believe has become catastrophic. And I use that word and I mean that to our children and a disservice to our families. And how would you

Alan Gottlieb: 7:04

describe what is catastrophic and to what extent is it societal? And to what extent can you attribute it directly or indirectly to the leadership of the district? Thank you

Coach Steve Finesilver: 7:17

we espouse that our number one goal is to provide safe schools. And we say that and we say it and we say it, but I know firsthand that is not the case. And how do I know that? I know people who are with safety and security. I know deans of students at many of the schools. I know people that practice the restorative justice technique and their stories are that we don't report. And that we are not doing everything we can to make our school safe. And I'm not in no way am I gonna talk about George Washington High School'cause I have deep love for it. And that is not the focus of any of this. The focus is that we assure the public and I say we because I'm part of the system. We reassure the public and reassure them that the schools are safe and that we help trouble children. And that is not the case at all. And I said at the last board meeting, and I'll say it again if you would allow me to. We do not work with children who are troubled. We do not try to remediate and affect their behavior. We don't support them, we don't do check-ins. And so they're allowed to flounder and become more and more troubled within our system. That's very complex and that's dangerous. I can assure you that we don't always report incidents that happen, even though by state regulation and law, they're supposed to be reported. I know for a fact they are not reported all the time. I know that the schools have dangerous children that aren't identified that often go to class and show violent tendencies, and we just allow them to remain. Then in, in the book I referred to the very first myth is we say our schools are safe, but in truth we're one incident away from making front page headlines. And sadly, that came to fruition several months after the book came out with the incident at East High School. So our buildings are not safe. And I have disclosed that and I said

Alan Gottlieb: 9:21

that to the board. And coach. Is this something that has been the case for an extended period of time, or do you see it as something that has grown markedly worse under Marrero or from before Marrero, or, how would you describe that?

Coach Steve Finesilver: 9:37

15 or 18 years ago when we had troubled children, we did not identify those children by name because there are laws and regulations against that, but the teachers knew. If they had a student in class that needed support, they knew that they could get that child somewhere to get some support, whether it was a school psychologist, a social worker, or a dean of students, or somebody that stopped. That hasn't been the case in recent years, where troubled children who need help and support are able to get help daily or several times a week. That no longer exists. Those children fly under the radar. Until there's an incident and then there becomes a knee jerk reaction. So this has been recent, but it has been more and more pronounced in the last three or three and a half years. We're seeing more acts of violence, more troubled children who are just left to be there and not I be identified. Not an assurance that the other children will be kept safe and not an assurance that child will be safe from the detrimental things that he or she can do to themselves.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 10:48

Coach and I have

Coach Steve Finesilver: 10:49

noticed, yes, please.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 10:51

To play devil's advocate, I think you would hear some people say even if a child is troubled, they still deserve access to a free and quality public education. There are certainly schools that have effective needs programs, for example, or schools that do have school social workers or school psychologists. Unfortunately, not enough schools have those support systems. What would you say to the district regarding the schools that do have these programs? Why are we still having these challenges and what is your, what are, what are you hearing out in the community? Even when those safeguards are in theory supposed to be in place? We're still hearing these concerns from community members.

Coach Steve Finesilver: 11:37

We stopped. Taking a stand eight or 10 years ago, but we really backed away from taking a stand four or five years ago on basic respect issues on the way that children address and speak to each other, and the on the way that children, and that's at all levels. Address and speak to adults and it used to. It was very common and frequent that people who were in those positions would say to a child, no, you can't address an adult like that. No, you can't speak to your peers in that way. And it was univer, universally understood that anybody that worked with a child was in a position to say to that child, this is not okay. We'd like you to change that behavior. Let's work through some systems and some behaviors that will preclude you and stop you from being disrespectful. We have given up on that on the civility issue. We've given up on it. That doesn't happen anymore and it should happen, and that's, that is teaching and tutoring and people that work in schools. That's the basic requirement. Establish community and loyalty, and that's gone.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 12:53

Thank you, coach. I wanted to ask a follow up to that as well. One of the concerns I've been having as I speak to fellow parents in DPS and this goes beyond just my own, the own, my, my school, my children's school and certainly our experience here. Is the amount of teacher turnover and the amount of leadership turnover that we're seeing at the building level. And the instability that creates, not only for educators, but also for students, for the parents. You had said in your opening remarks that you're part of a family, and I certainly feel that I. At the the school that my children attend, it does feel like it is part of a, it's a school community, feels like a family. You can rely on other parents, you can ask educators for support. The front office staff like it, it's a beautiful community. And then it does feel like a family sometimes, but when you start to see the disruption and increase in turnover, increase in leadership, turnover and again, it's something that I'm hearing from across the district. One of the things I've heard is the concern around safety, around the support educators themselves have and being supported and equipped to handle students that, that may need different sets of supports. What have you seen over the last couple of years? I know you're speaking for the, from the George experience, but have you spoken to other educators and what are you hearing from other educators in this space? Does this resonate at all? What I'm saying and what we're seeing as parents.

Coach Steve Finesilver: 14:19

Absolutely it does resonate and I though I'm tied to gw. I know teachers at 80 or 90 of the schools, and I will be, since you asked the question, I have heard from staff at 12 or 15 schools in the last two months about lack of support. About unsafe situations and they have about a layered up system of leadership and people are beat up. And the morale of our staff, and I'm talking about paraprofessionals, people that, that help with food, people that work grounds. I'm talking about staff because those are my people I've interacted with them for four and a half decades. Okay. And I have heard universally. That the staff morale now is at an all time low and teachers most especially, are beat up by the system and that's many of my colleagues at dozens of schools and they come to me because they know two things that I've been around that I'm very happy with the experience that I've had. But they also know that they can talk to me, and that at some point I will tell their story and I'll be their voice. And you are absolutely right. And in one of the meetings that I had with an assistant superintendent and a school board member that came up and I said, I am alarmed by turnover. We have these bright. Teachers, these bright parents, these wonderful people that choose out of the goodness of their heart and a commitment to families to enter education in some capacity. And many of them leave 20 or 25% of them leave and turn over without an exit interview, and the district says that they give one. Not true. They do a survey, but there is never an exit interview where people can say, no, I, I. And so it's alarming and I have a large family, but for young children to be in a system, I. And you don't know how many different teachers are going to see because teachers get burnt out and feel like they don't Yeah. They don't have support. That's terrible. Yeah.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 16:31

At our school, every fifth grade teacher is brand new. And this is a school that has historically had very low teacher turnover. I wanna pivot for a second and provide a little bit of inside baseball to our listeners. As Alan mentioned, we're recording this on Tuesday, April 29th. The board yesterday put on to the board docs a action item to approve, amended or approve proposed amendments to the superintendent's contract. I have heard from, let me back up. Over the last 24 48 hours, I've been in lots of conversations with community members, with educators, with former educators, with former DPS staff, with current DPS staff. And what I've surmised from some of these meetings is the reason that this contract originally was being considered to be opened is. The interest or the backlash from community in the superintendent receiving a contract last year in the middle of bargaining and negotiations. So they said the only way we can deal with that is by opening the contract and removing the bonus, the superintendent's bonus from the contract to which my personal opinion is, that's bullshit because the superintendent could easily just take the bonus and donate it back to the DPS foundation or any other worthy. Nonprofit here in Denver that's serving youth, but regardless, they're opening the contract under that guise. And surely DPS educators are rightfully angry at how much the superintendent has received increases in pay, and bonus, things like that. The concern, though, is once this contract is open, it is very likely that this board will vote to extend the superintendent's contract. Before his performance evaluation is complete, his performance evaluation was just implemented in January. I was talking to some parents today. I'm on the PTO here in my school. We're talking to some of the PTO, some of my PTO homies, if you will, and they were outraged. And I was talking to some educators, they were outraged that the superintendent's contract would be extended when no educator would ever have the ability to have a contract extended without any type of evaluation. Educators are evaluated to, to a very deep level, and yet the superintendent has seemed to get by with such minimal standards or minimal evaluation. So that's just inside baseball for our listeners, a little bit of background as we're going into this and hopefully this podcast will be posted speaking as a lifelong educator, speaking as a veteran educator in DPS coach. What do you think about this board's decision to open the contract one and then two possibly extend his contract at this point?

Coach Steve Finesilver: 19:18

Thank you. I'll be very honest. I think that does not serve in the best interest of our children or our families to extend the contract. And I'll go one, one step further and to continue this leadership. Okay. And the reason I say that is that we have perpetuated a system. Unfortunately, we're children who need us the most, and that's all of the educators. Everybody who's tied into a school, the very children that need us the most are getting less and less. And we've created a system that by law is supposed to provide a free and appropriate education. And what that means by law is that child is supposed to flourish. In the system and be able to chase dreams and set goals and have wonderful things happen and great experiences during the 15,800 hours, we're with them and what has happened now is that the children who need us the most, they have to fight. They have to struggle to rise above a system that was created by law to help them. That hurts my heart. And coach. Yeah. And there is no reason that any child in Denver, I don't care geographically, financially, I don't where they, where the child is. It comes from what neighborhood, what culture, origin, every child should have the opportunity to achieve and to excel, and certain children, when they rise above the system. It's like a major accomplishment. Instead of the system being there to help and assist the child and the families. We are generationally deep in bias and institutional problems where we're hindering the kids that need us the most. And I can't look at that anymore. Yep. I want you to know that.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 21:13

Thank you for your honesty and thank you for sharing that. I, my last follow up on this and then Alan, I'll turn it back over to you. You were saying the quiet part out loud, you were saying the part that I have heard people say behind closed doors that people are afraid to say publicly for risk of losing their job, particularly current employees. And it's no surprise then that we see these NDAs being asked to be signed within the district, within NDAs that we're now seeing in job postings within DPS. Why are you. Deciding to speak out. You spoke a public comment and that obviously I would assume put a target on your back. You coming onto this podcast is putting an additional target on your back from the district. Why are you speaking out now? And thank you for doing so because so many educators who have spoken to at least me, I believe some have spoken to Alan. Don't feel comfortable speaking out publicly.

Coach Steve Finesilver: 22:07

I have to speak out. Because nobody's doing that. I have been and I try to be low key because none of this is about me. None of this is personal, but it is about people that are in my family, my big family. It's about chil families that I've celebrated with, and it's about families that I've been to funerals with, that I've grieved with. And it's about bar mitzvahs and weddings and Quin es. And so this is much deeper than a teacher or coach that has a complaint. If we don't do something now, we will be affected for decades and we have a chance now. And there are other issues and I'm hoping, number one, that people will gather and come to the to the board meeting and there'll be a show of strength of support and people asking to be heard. Number one, I'm hoping that the board makes sure that there are people, including people that I've spoken to who are looking at this from a legal point of view. And there is a legal requirement in Colorado that boards of education have a legal obligation to hear and consider the opinions of their constituents. Now, that's law, and I think that there's a gray area and that there can be a case made that has not happened. And I am willing to say that if things happen without comment and without consideration. There are some attorneys that are going to latch onto this and possibly question the legality of how the board has acted. And I pro I don't think they've considered that, number one. Number two, we have a rich alumni base, including some of our most philanthropic people who donate to the member public Schools Foundation. And I have been in conversation the last month with many of those people. They're really considering not being so supportive emotionally or financially. And I'm talking about people that I've known forever who are saying to me what is going on. It's hard for me to support them. And the other thing is we have several hundred thousand alumni in the Denver area, and they, and I can, and I'm one of them and I know many of them by name, but thousands of families, they have felt disenfranchised. Not welcome and they have not embraced the DPS nor will they under this current administration. So I'm shocked and bewildered that there would be any consideration at all to extend, and I don't know why they would do that unless it's convenient. And I also have to say that there are some members going out and they want to go out. They can go out as champions or they can go out knowing. In their heart that they've hindered the education in Denver. And we have three board members I understand that are up for reelection. I can't figure why in the world they wouldn't listen to the people in their neighborhoods.'cause I'm hearing from those people, I'm hearing from the people that will elect this next group of board members. And they are not happy with the omission of their voices. And so based on those things and the fact that we're looking at morale. Non-access, lack of achievement. I can't figure. And as you have said very appropriately, why in the world we would extend, why we wouldn't have great conversation. And my plan is to have meetings in June and July, five meetings in five different neighborhoods at parks where people do have a voice. And that isn't dependent on how this shakes out on Thursday. I'm gonna make sure that the voices are heard'cause they haven't been. And I hope that's a an answer to your question. I hope that helps.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 25:51

That's really helpful. Thank you.

Alan Gottlieb: 25:55

Coach, I think you've really eloquently laid out your concerns and there I think are concerns and a lot of other people's concerns as well, and it's very unfortunate, but this school board is turning a deaf ear to those concerns. The majority of this board, I. I, I continue to believe that it's naked politics and little else that this board knows that the composition of the board could change dramatically in November and be less friendly to this current regime. And they wanna make it as politically and financially painful to those board members in the district to if they decide they have to move on and move in a different direction. And so they're gonna lock in and extend this contract to make it a. Politically painful to, to do anything about it come November or beyond. I think we're pretty close to time where we should wrap this up, but any final words that you want to get across, coach, before we sign off? Again, thank you so much for your time and your words. I hope that people

Coach Steve Finesilver: 26:51

will show up and insist, and I'm talking about people who are in the neighborhoods and pay taxes, families staff. I'm hoping that people will show up. And an act of strength and support for our children, and let the board know by numbers that people are willing to come forward and ask that the board be reflective and turn their eyes inward to see either the positive or negative that could come from this. That's number one. Number two, I'm hoping that the board will look at this and see that, that this is not the appropriate time. And that they haven't truly listened and they haven't a answered questions that people have had, including at our last session where there were, many people who spoke, very passionately about extending this contract. And I'm also hoping that there be an awareness of what's really going on so that normal people know and will ask the hard questions of the DP. S. We've promised great schools in every neighborhood, and that's been the theme for many years. And then we're closing schools. We promised a quality education, a, an education that shares the vibrance of the cultures in our city. That's not happening. There is nothing now happening. To where a family moving into Denver would look at the Denver public schools and say, wow, I'm happy to be here. I wanna buy a home in Denver for that reason, that is not happening. And with all of those reasons and factors, if the board really looks at it, they should know that this would be a tremendous mistake to continue in this way at this time. And I'm hoping that there will be an awareness through this podcast and through listening to voices of you, your program. Alexis, I'm hoping that there'll be an awareness and that people will really think through this and support a more rational,

Alan Gottlieb: 28:43

thought out decision.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 28:45

Thank you. I'm,

Alan Gottlieb: 28:46

I, yeah I appreciate that. I'm afraid that the board is acting like some of the board members are acting like teenagers at Destin. Tantrum me two year olds at worst. And that the more opposition they're getting and the more backlash they're getting for this, the more they're digging in their heels Absolutely. And throwing their food against the wall. That's just an unfortunate, it seems to me to be going that way.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 29:07

Yeah. Thank you so much coach. Fine. Silver. You had mentioned public comment and the board meeting for those of you listening, and it is probably too late for public comment for signing up, but there will be a lot of people showing up at the board meeting this Thursday. At four 30. The board meeting technically starts at 3 45, but they'll be going into executive session for the first little bit. And then public comment will start probably around four to four 30. So if you wanna get there early to get a seat I'd recommend getting there a little closer to 3 45. The, it will be happening at the DPS Central Administration Office, which is at 1860 Lincoln. So anybody who's listening in, especially DPS parents, especially DPS educators please come consider coming out and showing your support for educators who have been in the district a very long time. Like our coach here who's on the podcast and other parents and educators who have expressed concern over petitions and letters and many other outlets on social media. So thank you so much Steve, for taking the time to be with us today.

Alan Gottlieb: 30:05

Yeah. And coach, I just wanted to say not that I think we have any power or influence, but if they come after you, let us know and we will shout it to the rooftops to try and let the world know. I don't know if they will, but I don't know that they won't.

Coach Steve Finesilver: 30:18

Any way that shakes out. I think there are some legal questions that, that the board should consider. And I have heard rumblings of people just based on what's gone on, going to some other government entities and asking for some things to be investigated based on what has gone on with this board and with this leadership. And I think this would add fuel to the case of people seeking legal action against. The board possibly and going to some governmental entities and asking for some relief. I think we're to that point now, and I don't know that the DPS or that our leadership or the board should ignore that.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 30:57

And again, on behalf of our listeners and Alan and I just wanna thank you for your courage and the courage of others who have been brave enough to come onto the podcast. We haven't had a single current employee of the district willing to come on yet. But hopefully until you, with you coming on until you, yes. With you coming on, we hope that this would encourage others to feel comfortable to exercise their first amendment of freedom of speech and be willing to come onto the podcast. So thank you for taking the time and again, for your courage.

Coach Steve Finesilver: 31:25

Thank you for having me. And if either of you need me, pick up the phone and call and that goes to any of your circle or anybody, I have people that I don't even know that, that find my number and call me. And that's what I'm there, that's what I signed up for. And that's what I've enjoyed doing. So I'm there. I'm not going anywhere.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 31:43

Thanks very. So I'll keep,

Coach Steve Finesilver: 31:44

I'll keep advocating and I'll

Alan Gottlieb: 31:46

keep fighting for our families. Thank you. Thank you. And that, that will do it for this episode. We'll have another one fairly soon. We're looking into the non-disclosure agreements and what that's all about. And we'll have another podcast on that in the near future. But until then, thanks everybody and we'll be in touch soon. Bye. Thank you. Thank you.