Episode 14: Denver school board candidate Dr. DJ Torres

Transcript

Alan Gottlieb: 0:08

Hi, and welcome to the Board Hawk podcast. It's good to be back after a short hiatus in the doldrums of summer, but things never slow down in DPS, and we have a board election coming up, as everyone knows. So we are still in the process of interviewing declared candidates for I. School board seats today we have on with us and we're very happy to have him, Dr. DJ Torres, who is running for the seat in district three, which is basically central Denver and it's the seat that's been held for the past eight years by Dr. Kerry Olson, who is term limited and they're or prevented from running again. Dj, welcome. It's really nice to have you here.

Dr. DJ Torres: 0:44

Thank you so much Allen and Alexis. Really appreciate the time and the consideration and allowing me to come on in and be with you.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 0:51

Alright,

Alan Gottlieb: 0:51

we just wanna start by asking you a little bit about yourself. Who you are, introduce, yourself, to our audience and to us a little bit about your background and what made you decide to run for the Denver School Board.

Dr. DJ Torres: 1:02

Thanks so much. Yeah. I've been lucky enough to be asked this question a couple of times and I think what's shaping up for me is a bit of a three part answer. And the first part is I am a former DPS educator. I moved here in 2009 to be a high school special ed teacher and that for a few years, and really enjoyed that experience and I am still in touch with some of my students. I really loved. Having that opportunity to really get to know DPS on that side, right? As an educator, as someone who was really working hard to be a community centered educator especially, was a very fun time for me. And then I think the next piece of that is I worked in DPS Essential Office. I was a part of the culturally responsive education team and. Worked alongside some really great colleagues and we always say we were a very small but mighty team that got to do really great work and center equity across the district. And we did teacher coaching and central office coaching and did some policy changes that I am very proud about that we could talk about at a later time. I think, but the most important role that I have related to DPS now is I'm a DPS dad. My partner and I adopted a kiddo three and a half years ago, and quite intentionally chose not only DPS, but our community school, our neighborhood school, to raise him in. So he is, a proud member of dpss Elementary System and I'm a proud dad and I volunteer on our CSC and we go to community nights and I have conferences with his teachers. And it's a really fun experience and I think pulling all those together have, has illuminated a lot of I guess what has inspired me to run for office. And I'm really excited to have pulled those pieces together. So I guess, yeah, to your question around why have I chosen to do this? Something that has come up for me a lot is, if not me, then who? And if not now when, and I think in a time such as this and a political climate that we have that now nationally and even internationally, I want to be someone who focuses on hyperlocal change. And I care very much about hyperlocal change. And I think when the world feels really big and scary. I think it's really I've been able to gain the wisdom of a lot of people who have come before me, and I think where I wanna spend my time and efforts is in focusing on local change and trying to be a change maker in my own community. So I think running for school board feels really right. I have a lot of experience in education and the sort of community side of it, and. It helps me to feel like I'm able to make meaningful change in an environment where we are all experiences experiencing, excuse me, the impacts of the world around us, so that's why

Alan Gottlieb: 3:54

I. I, I imply from your kind of introduction about what your DPS background, that you no longer work with DPS or do you, and if you don't what are you up to nowadays?

Dr. DJ Torres: 4:03

Yeah. No, I don't. Yeah, thanks for clarifying. My most recent role is with Sandy Hook Promise. I worked for an organization that works nationally on school-based violence prevention and gun violence prevention in particular. For the last two years and some change, I was able to build national programs and training and strategy coalition building focused on school-based safety improvements and the reduction of school-based violence. So building a lot of programs that focused on hoping young people to feel like they belong in their school because the data shows that the number one cause for school-based violence is. A student who doesn't feel like they have a home in their local school. And so it's not a coincidence that school safety and school-based violence and wellbeing and belonging, really all of those go hand in hand. So I've been lucky enough to lead some of that work on a national level.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 4:58

That's great. Thanks. So you mentioned, part of the reason you're running is wanting to affect change at the hyper-local level. Doesn't get more hyper-local than local school board elections. And then you also mentioned just now the previous work you've done at Sandy Hook. One of the questions we were wanting to ask you here is what your views are on the district's discipline matrix. So I know it's obviously much more complicated than than what we often see in the headlines. So you coming on being able to speak as an expert who's looked at this nationally. There's been a huge debate about SROs in schools, about how DPS has handled a shooting that took place at East High School that resulted in two deans being shot and unfortunately a student taking his life. And at the same time, we also have the discussion about how we're able to support educators and students when we have students who may be causing harm either to themselves or others. I'm curious to get your perspective, given this. Tense landscape that we're in on this particular topic. What are your views on how DPS is looking at safety whether holistically or if you wanna dive into a specific policy and what would you wanna see changed?

Dr. DJ Torres: 5:59

Yeah, thanks, Alex. That's a really big and important question. I think, so some of the work that we do at Sandy Hook Promise really focuses on the idea that hardening doesn't solve a lot of the problems that we think it might solve. And so for me, I think that something like a school resource officer being present, I think that there is a good way to do that level of I guess I wanna say accountability, right? It's a, there are ways to do, to have school resource involvement, school resource officer involvement in your school community, but it has to be integrated. And I think that really sums up my sort of position on. Safety and belonging when it comes to the school day. And when I think about how we're building these processes that are focused on school-based safety, that you have to think about what are the ways that students are feeling unsafe, right? You have to go to the. The big problems, what are, what is causing students to feel unsafe? And a lot of that is they don't feel like they belong. And so when they don't feel like they belong, they find communities where they do belong. And often those are found online and that those online communities often harbor community development focused on hate, right? So then you find these echo chambers for these young people that really focus on issues of hate and violence. And, and so on, right? Which leads to some of the violence that's, that that students both cause and experience in the school day. And so for those of us who have done that work professionally, we know that when you go back to undoing a lot of those processes, you have to understand that. I like to say instead of hardening, which is increasing these very strict kind of, judicial systems, you have to soften them, which means you have to bring in more mental health services. You have to bring in more culturally responsive education. You have to bring in more belonging based education, equity-based education, so that students of all sorts can see themselves in their traditional school day and their school climate and their school culture. And to get back to I guess a hot topic like. School resource officers. Yeah, I think a school resource officer could participate in the school day, so long as they are actively involved, right? That students know them, that they know the students' names, that they aren't used just for punitive outcomes, but rather they are walking students to schools. They are helping students, in the parking lots. They are, checking in on students when they might be in the hallways. They aren't just leveraged for consequence and punishment. Because I, I do think that's often this sort of gut reaction that schools have when violence happens, is how can we how can we really harden this environment so that this never happens again? And while the intent is a good one, and it makes a good sense, the outcome is that it actually makes students feel perpetually unsafe. The outcome is that it makes students feel like they are. Continuing to live in an environment that needs to be monitored and closely scrutinized and that never makes them feel safe or like they belong or like it's a, an environment that they wanna show up to every day. So yeah, the opposite of that is true. And so I really desire a world in which, in DPS we continue to bring in. Issues of belonging. We continue to bring in mental health services. We continue to do the culture work necessary for Denver Public School students to feel like they belong in every single Denver public school's home and every public school that they encounter, so that they can build that environment for themselves along with obviously the adults and the the staff that support that school every day as well.

Alan Gottlieb: 9:40

Along those lines. Dj, there's there's basically been a debate in the wake of the. The shootings at East about whether there are certain students who might pose enough of a danger to other students or themselves that they shouldn't be educated in the general population, at least temporarily. Where do you come down on that? Do you think there are cases where students should probably be educated online at least for a while, as opposed to a as happened in the case of East integrated into a. General student body where perhaps it poses a danger to others.

Dr. DJ Torres: 10:15

This is a, it's a good and important question. I also think it's a very nuanced question and I wanna respond to that with my special ed teacher hat on. And I think about least restrictive environment. And I think that if student, if a student is going through a mental health crisis, I do wonder what their least restrictive environment is. I do wonder if a traditional public school is their least restrictive environment or if there is something better suited for the potential crisis that young person is in. So I think that where there is nuances in the unique situations that students will find themselves in, so that the answer to that question is case by case, right? So for example, if a student is having mental health crisis, which is leading to the perpetuation of violence, and we know that. A different setting would be better for them to not only ease the ease, the desire to want to cause harm, but also helps them find some healing and some peace in their mental health journey. I think that a traditional public school kind of writ large is not their least restrictive environment. I think special education has solved this problem a long time ago, and I want. Us to continue to leverage the really strong skill and background and experience that special education can offer general education in environments just like this, right? I can think of many times where there's such a strong desire for every student to have the exact same experience in a traditional public school, but that's. As we all know, equality and not equity. And I think when we're doing really good equity work, we're able to meet every student in their need and be able to respond to it with a really well-rounded really diversified, equitable experience to offer them. And so I don't think large experience is what every student needs when we can do better work by offering a unique individualized experience, including for those students who may be having. Mental health crises or family crises that is leading to the perpetuation of harm.

Alan Gottlieb: 12:16

Okay. Thank you.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 12:18

Thanks, dj. When you and I first met it was at the Denver Families Party for the people event a couple of weeks back. And we just happened to bump into each other during remarks and you were kind and asked, do you need some space for your cocktail or your drink here and. I obviously had been sleuthing who all the candidates were, and so I was like, oh, you're a DJ Torres. And I made some comment to you in those first like minute one, two minutes of talking of you are a Latino special education dad, doctor, and let's just add to the list. Somebody who's worked to reduce school-based violence. You were like the perfect candidate profile for so many people, particularly Democrats. So thinking about that, there's so many organizations that I think just your profile alone is one that is coming from the political world, very easy to elevate as like a really strong candidate, right? My, my thinking is DCTA Denver families, they must be like busting down the door to try to get you to go through their endorsement process. So what, who, who are you seeking the endorsement from knowing that the two big players are Denver families and DCTA who are you actively seeking to, to get endorsement from?

Dr. DJ Torres: 13:24

I will respond to your first part, which is Thank you. I laugh a little bit because I do think there, and we joked about this, right? And there is some seriousness to this, but I also like to be lighthearted when it comes to the tokenizing of it all right? And I know how it looks on paper, but you also have to be someone that's worth all the hype. And I want to be someone who is worth all the hype. I've. I've definitely worked in environments where my identities have been tokenized and not been seen for. I guess I'll say not been welcomed in their fullest expressions. And so when I have opportunities to bring all of my identities, you mentioned, yes, I am very proudly Latino. I come from a poor family. I'm very proudly queer and married to a man. And I have a lot of these identities that I wear very much on my sleeve. You also have to be someone who's able to walk the talk and I want to be someone who does that. So thank you. And all jokes aside, I also hope I have the opportunity to prove that, prove the actions align with how it might look on paper. So thank you for saying that. Yeah, and I think in terms of endorsement, it's a tricky time, right? I've been invited to a few forums already and I've been invited to a few endorsements. I think simply because I'm a filed candidate right now, and so I have to think a lot about what that looks like in terms of how I am how those endorsements align to my. Aligned to my values and one of my big values is not really wanting to. Receive any money from any reform dollars. And so that has made some of the endorsement process a little bit tricky. I think in particular with some relationships I've had with some organizations across the city. So I will say, without saying too much I have pursued endorsements from folks that are more union and collectively organized. And I am not pursuing endorsements from some organizations that. Are funded by some large dollar donors who are more pro reform.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 15:29

Thanks for sharing. So just one follow up on that, you mentioned that you won't be seeking or you won't be taking dollars from reform money. Is that a fair, that is a very fair assessment. So oftentimes I would be considered a reform advocate in the community. If someone like me, wrote you a 50, a hundred dollars check, would you return it? And at what point is the line, are you talking corporate dollar? Are you talking individuals who are reformers? Where's the line for you?

Dr. DJ Torres: 15:57

Oh yeah, great question. I would say. That's a really good question because I don't know I would say that hearing you say I'm a reformer, I would want to know what that meant. I would, I think I would want have a conversation with you about what that meant. I think I would wanna know if that meant you were trying to create vouchers for private school funding. Probably not. If you were trying to create an environment that was thinking critically about perpetuating more charter schools in the district when we know that our. Denver public schools populations are declining? I would say probably not. So as I'm thinking about the answer as I'm saying it, yeah, I would say probably not. And in terms of, yeah, corporate certainly, no. I would want to know, probably the reason I'm saying probably is because if someone identifies as a reformer and it potentially turns out that they mean equity, they identify as a reformer and they mean, really good tra, really good public school innovation. I would want to know if that's what they meant. But if it means funneling dollars into more charter schools, funneling dollars into vouchers for private schools, I would say no. Thanks

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 17:07

for your honesty, dj.

Dr. DJ Torres: 17:09

Thanks for the honest question.

Alan Gottlieb: 17:12

Wanted to ask you about a few things actually going on within the district as well, and where your views are on those. DJ one is the whole, and this gets into sort of, head hurting weeds, but we need to talk about a little, and that is policy governance. The way the board is currently operating, policy governance is actually a fairly broad way of doing things and there are different ways of implementing it. And this board is. Chosen a particularly restrictive way of operating, I think under policy governance. And I'm just interested in what your view of policy governance is currently practiced by DPS is, which is basically. The board is responsible for overseeing the superintendent and holding him to account for the performance of the district in very specific ways, but they keep their hands off to a great extent. Anything re related to operations? And I'm just curious about whether you think that's serving the district the best possible way, whether it needs some tweaks, and if so, what kind of tweaks those would be?

Dr. DJ Torres: 18:06

I've been thinking a lot about policy governance because I went through a fellowship with Denver families over the last year and we talked a lot about the training, or excuse me, we were trained in a lot about the policy governance at Denver Public Schools is in right now. And something I think a lot about is what is going well with this and what needs improvement? And something that I, so when I was deciding to. Officially file for this position and become a candidate for district three. I met with a lot of folks and I formed these with the help of some really good friends, formed some groups of feedback circles to really hear from folks to hear what, and I asked everyone these two questions. What do you believe the school board does now and what do you hope they do? And as I was asking this question, it became very clear, or these two questions, it became very clear that I think a lot of folks don't have the clearest idea of what the school board does, but they have clear ideas of what they want them to do. And a lot of what they wanted them to do was be an active communication and with. Communities, right? They want their school board members to show up in schools. They want their school board members to host lunch hours. They want their school board members to know their students. They want their school board members to know their families and their communities. And that tells me in it, in the current form, in the current practice of board governance, policy governance, I believe that there is a missing piece, which is, in this rigid. Or strict way, I forget which word you used exactly, but in this more literal interpretation of policy governance, I think that there has been an inadvertent, or inadvertent, I can't say for certain, but in I interpret it as an inadvertent cutting off of open lines of communication with the public. And I think of this position as, again, in its most local form of representative government. And what I'm finding is that folks don't often. Or can't often see a really clear pathway between themselves, right? Either as educators, central office staff, family members, and the the school board who makes these policy ends. And I think that's something that I would love to see changed. Or what are the active ways that folks are building community? Feedback loops with, again, educators, central office staff when possible and when following the law and family members, students as well, to be able to find out about how these policy ends are working. And I think what's happening now is it's almost like an and hourglass shape, right? Where the board sits on top, it all funnels through their sole employee and then it goes down to. The educators, students, and the, that very broad classroom-based experience. But what's missing, I believe, is the necessary feedback between those who are enacting the policy ends, those who are, doing the work. And those of us hopefully who are making the policies. And so I think for myself, I think about myself as a board leader, as a board member, and I think about how I will rebuild some of those networks of communication and communication pipelines with community members at the very least in D three, if not trying to. Create more active feedback loop processes across the city, across the district, so that all folks feel like they have these really active communication pipelines with their school board representatives. And let me say as well, I don't want to imply that those aren't happening currently. I think there is some hesitation though, or some reluctance from folks. To know exactly the extent of their ability to engage in those. I've heard from communities as, as high up as members of former members of even the superintendent staff, principals, deans not really sure how and at what level they are able to engage with the board. And for me, I wanted to make that crystal clear. Both for people who are constituents, right? People who vote us in as community members of our respective districts, but also as members of the broader DPS community. I want that to be explicitly clear so that folks don't have any question of the ability to engage with us as board members because this whole thing should be community driven, this whole thing, right? In representative government. I should be in my best form saying and representing the voice of the people who have put me into this position, and if that communication pathway feels broken or unclear or unsure, it should be my job to fix that so that folks feel like they have very clear pathways of communication to say to me whatever it is they need to say to me to continue to inform my decisions, to put new ideas forward, that we build these things together. That way it's not just this kind of top down approach that I think is the sentiment that has been expressed to me.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 23:04

Thanks dj. I have two hopefully quick follow up questions. Actually, I know we're starting to run out of time here. The first is, I actually completely agree with you about opening or creating new active communication pipelines. My personal belief is I think the school board has taken the wrong direction when it comes to, changes they've made to public comment, for example. It's much more restrictive than it used to be. A lot of people can't make the list anymore. It's a shorter time. It has to be focused just on the very topics that they're bringing up. So I have some concerns there. So my first question to you is, what would you propose to see changed, if anything, when it comes to something like public comment, for example?

Dr. DJ Torres: 23:45

That's a really great question. I've seen some. Feedback on. Public feedback related to the timeframe of when the topics get put out publicly. And I would love for that to be as far out into the future as possible. And I understand that topics change and agendas take time to be made and created, but I do see that as one of the barriers is that some folks often don't understand what's being discussed when and have enough time to be able to formulate a strong opinion on that topic. So would love to see. The topic be communicated out clearly, and with enough time for people to formulate an opinion, to be able to sign up for board comment. And additionally, yeah, I, I also understand, in a contemporary world where it's not always the safest environment to to have, I don't wanna say like having a free reign at the microphone is unsafe, but I think for some people it can be interpreted as unsafe. So in whatever ways we can continue to put safeguards in place, I. Great, but finding a healthier balance between the kind of the immediacy of someone showing up and wanting to say something here and now, but also having a process that allows folks plenty of time to be able to sign up. I think just more communication pathways, better timeframe around it and allowing folks the opportunity to say what they need to say in a time when it really can affect change. I think also some of the critiques I've heard is that. The feedback loop process can feel really performative or feel like it might not create the change that they hope it, it makes and so I would love for folks to be able to feel like the feedback that they're offering comes before a decision is made and rather at the time of an active, engaging conversation and discussion around it so that folks can feel like. Whether or not they are, insiders or key stakeholders to a decision pathway, rather that that they feel like they can really make some of that change in real time with their their representatives would be very ideal.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 25:39

Thanks, tj. I'll hold my next question or my second question to the end. It's more about leadership style, so I'll turn over the next question to Alan.

Alan Gottlieb: 25:47

This is a really basic one, but obviously an important one, dj, and that is simply what is your view of the current state of student learning and DPS and what policies or practices would you promote to improve it if you think it needs improvement?

Dr. DJ Torres: 26:01

Yeah, that's a great and very broad question, I think that I'll use a very local and very specific example, which is my son, right? My son came into our family and came to Denver Public Schools with. As one can imagine a lot of challenges and difficulties having been adopted out of the foster system. And so for me, I think what I've really loved about his experience and I'll speak very specifically of our experience with McMean, is I feel like his he's been met where he is. I feel like he's been very authentically met in his, at the time, current state of needs, and there was a lot of. I feel like very clear expectations of what he can, what he could do at the time, and what he really couldn't do, and what I would love to see be true across the district is that every student would be able to show up in wherever they are. Right? Think about multilingual learners, think about kiddos with IEPs. Think about kiddos who come from a variety of backgrounds, that they would be able to show up in whatever state they were in, and that there would be an expectation of growth. And less. I would say sometimes less an expectation of sometimes an arbitrary standard of performance. So what if we were measuring, I think about my son a lot, right? He was not marking on really any measure of grade level performance, but he was growing 10, 20, 30%. Year over year. And that wasn't really shown anywhere. And I would love for those kinds of developmental processes to be documented somewhere. So that's not just that he continues to seem like he is just this perpetual behind grade level student, rather, that there was another more creative way to demonstrate he's grown. 20, 30, 50% in his reading, in his math year over year would love for that to be taken into consideration. Additionally, would love for real life experiences to be a tangible measure and not just something that feels like a good idea, but. I was just having this conversation earlier this afternoon where, I would love for folks to be able to have the opportunity to communities to come together and say, what are the real measures of success happening to you in your local community, and how can we instill this into a way that your young people are being measured so that as they're showing up to school every day, that's being accounted for in this broader way that we're. Otherwise conceptualizing in a somewhat arbitrary way a success, right? What are the measures that we're putting in there that are that are real, that are lived, that our young people are experiencing across the city, that are then placed in a measurable way that points to really positive outcomes and experiences for Denver public schools? Young people would love to see that incorporated a bit more across the city.

Alan Gottlieb: 28:50

Okay. One. Can I just a quick follow up to that? Sure. Appreciate your answer. And that is I guess one measure rather than arbitrary measures as you as you describe them, would be. Are enough students, gradu leaving the system as graduates, first of all, period, are enough? Is the graduation rate high enough? But also are they graduating prepared, really prepared for the next step of life, be that college, some other form of training, working, just going straight into the working world, but prepared with the skill they need to succeed at the next step. I guess that's the measure. Are you seeing DPS producing students who are prepared to have successful lives at a high enough level at this point?

Dr. DJ Torres: 29:30

I think that is, even that question itself, and no, no offense I hope it is clear. What I'm saying is that question itself is not well-rounded enough for me. I think that, the idea of what is graduation and what does prepare, what does preparation mean? Those need to really be fleshed out more, I think as we live in a, as we live in a contemporary world where, you know, preparation for what world are we actually sending these kids out to? And what does it mean to be successful when they're done? And, have we been doing too much work to create a singular pathway for students to be successful in college only? That's a sort of old debate at this point, but. What are the other more authentic ways that we're preparing students for a training career or a career in a in a trade, right? What are the ways that we're really authentically engaging young people in those ways? I would love to see those measures be really fleshed out even more. And so are we doing a good enough job? I think that the answer can and should always be no, only because if we feel like we have arrived, then we will feel like. There is not more work to be done, and I don't believe that. I feel like there will always be another audience of young people that we could always serve a bit better, and so I'll never be, I will never find myself feeling like we've arrived at any one place because I've learned this over my years. In equity work, there's always another community that requires deeper. Attention, more intentional focus and I want to be the kind of leader that thinks like that. So that way not so that I am ever, unpleased or unsatisfied, rather, that we are continuing to evolve how we think about what success looks like in an evolving world.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 31:14

Thanks dj. I wanna ask about your opponent. So Alan had mentioned that, this is an open seat currently. Current board president Kerry Olson is term limited. You announced earlier on and just in the last couple of weeks current director Scott Esserman, who's currently the at large board member, announced he's running for district three. I'm curious to hear from you. Scott has been a former formerly endorsed by DCTA candidate. He very much is supportive. Previously, maybe not currently. I would argue of more of the union's interests. Although I think there sometimes there's he does things that seem to be more aligned to reform. I'm curious to hear, why are you continuing to run if there's somebody who has has been supported of the te by this teacher's unions before? And why do you think he's running for the district receipt?

Dr. DJ Torres: 32:02

Yeah, great question. I will say that I don't know Scott Erman. I will say that he. Seems like a fine man. I don't know him very, I don't know him personally at all, and so I can only speak to what has come out about him publicly in terms of his decision to run. And yes, I have seen that he's decided to run for district three. Yes, I see that he lives in district three and I, I see that he's moving from at large to district three. All of those are facts. That's all true. I tend to focus more on not running against any one candidate and running for myself. And I think for myself, what I think sets me apart from Scott Esserman or whomever else would decide to run is that I I really put my money where my mouth is when it comes to. The practice, I want to walk the talk. And so when it comes to equity practice and education, I've done it when it comes to building community and perpetuating the need for community in spaces, I've done it. And it's not to say that Scott or anyone else hasn't done it, but I think I can. I. Do it better, and that's why I'm choosing to do this right. I think it goes back to the adage of, if not now, when and if not me, then who? And you have to believe that you have I, I'll speak for myself. I have to believe, and part of the decision to run is believing that I have gained enough experience in this life to be able to turn back toward my community and offer some of this in the form of wisdom back to people who, who have served me so well. So I think about, that very interdependent relationship between community and leader. And I think I will do a very good job at that. And as I've been saying, I'm not running against any one person. I'm running for myself. Congrats to Scott for deciding to enter into race three. And I'm also, or district three. And I'm also in district three, and I'm running to win.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 33:49

Thanks dj. We'll certainly ask director Esman that question. We are going to be a be inviting him onto the podcast. We will see if he accepts. We would love to interview all of the candidates who have announced. I do have one more question, but before I ask that, Alan, do you have a question you wanna ask before we start wrapping this up?

Alan Gottlieb: 34:07

No, I really appreciate your time, dj, and I'll let it end with Alexis's question and no offense taken it, whatever you said you were worried you would offend me about, it's pretty hard to offend me. And that was certainly not offensive, so that's true. Over to Alexis.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 34:20

Perfect. I wanna try to end on a positive note here, dj, thinking about the DPS school board members, whether they be current or former board members. Whose leadership style do you most admire and hope to emulate?

Dr. DJ Torres: 34:36

I feel like I have been very grateful for Dr. Kerry Olson. Dr. Olson has been a friend to me in this decision to run, and as I jokingly say, she. Would be in my ear right now telling me to be sure that everyone knows she's willing to offer her time and experience to anyone who wants to ask it of her. And I did ask this of her as far back as a year ago, and she has been a very kind and generous person. And so what I've learned from her and her leadership, I think I would really. Again this, I maybe not again, but this idea of emulate. I'm not sure that I'm trying to emulate anyone because I believe very much in my own kind of unique wisdom and path and the same way I value everyone's individual wisdom and path. But what I have valued about Carrie and what I really have appreciated and hope others see in me is my ability and willingness to meet folks at the table. I care very much about. Obviously my values, the things that have led me to this place, but I also not, but, and I want to be someone who is able to make change. I don't want to be someone who perpetuates infighting. I want to be someone who's able to be a partner in, in getting, I. The very necessary work done to improve the lives of DPS students, and I know everyone has the ability to say that, and I think to some degree everyone has the ability to skew whatever thing they're doing and say that it's for DPS students, I care very much about, I. Aligning that to data, aligning that to really positive outcomes and being able to prove with a very good track record that we have done the work to improve the lives of young people. So in the ways that I can work with other people and in the ways that I really value the sort of. Solid leadership in the midst of a lot of change, both kind of nationally and locally. I have really valued Carrie's steadfastness and her ability to show up. Both for me as a sort of mentor in this process and for others, but also as a leader on the board. I really have value that. So I would say that's something I hope people see in me as well.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 36:47

Thanks so much, dj. I that's a great way to end it.

Alan Gottlieb: 36:50

I actually have one more question that this I'm sorry. No. Can

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 36:53

trust Alan.

Alan Gottlieb: 36:55

Question. We're we're kind. Yeah. I know we're just, we're late on time here, but I just, this is such a basic question and this is gonna be another overly broad one I grant you, but I think it's an important question to ask every school board candidate, which is your main job is o overseeing your one employee. Superintendent and I would like to know what you, how you would assess the job performance and the state of the district under superintendent Alex Marrero over the last, he's now been here, I believe four years, which is amazing. But I think that's right.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 37:23

Wow.

Dr. DJ Torres: 37:24

For me, I think. There's this funny thing that happens in this question, and so I want to be sure that I'm answering it authentically and also being very meaningful when I say this. I care very much about data and I think that there is a lot of very good data that is out there to assess Dr. Mao's performance. So for me it's about I think how I would assess him is leveraging the data that already exists as well as the data that has been collected that has not been presented. And I say that because I have folks who have worked in the central office. I have friends who've worked in the classrooms. I have friends who've worked at all levels of the district. And what frustrates them, and this doesn't necessarily align with Dr. Marro specifically, but they have been. Folks who have put forward very important data that hasn't seen the light of day, that I think is really important for the public to see. And I'm not like trying to keep secrets. It's, there's nothing, there's not any one point of data in particular that I'm saying this, but just broadly, there are lots of good folks who do lots of good work. That is, that is monitored in the form of good data and it just hasn't been put forward. And so for me, would love for Dr. Martos performance to be evaluated along very good data outcomes, but I also want all of those data outcomes to be reported back up and back out to the public in a way that feels authentic to both his performance, but also to the data requests that we're making as board leaders that says, Hey, is there is there a better way to assess this aspect of his performance? Is there data that shows this unique corner of. Of the district's performance that is expressed in Dr. Martos performance as well. I wanna see the full range of what's available, and I want it all to be used to assess performance, not only for Dr. Marto, but for the improvement of DPS students. It, I think that's the kind of key takeaway if we all believe that we're doing what's right for students, but we know that there's data that shows what is tangibly right for students. We need to do all of our work to align the work that we're doing. Two, what the data is showing is best for students, and that includes the performance of our superintendent, right? If he is saying he's doing the best job for students, and we have these measures that are showing that he's doing the best job for students, let's show it all. If he's saying he's doing the best job for students and there are measures out there that are showing he's not doing the best job by. This community or that community that needs to be front and center too. And I'm not implying that people are holding data or hiding it. It's not to, I'm not saying that. I am saying though that there, we need to be sure that the data that we're using to measure his performance as well as anyone's performance is front and center. It's the best data possible and it's the most accurate data possible. I think that's how we do the best job, quote unquote managing our sole employee is because the reality is. That one employee has an absolutely huge stake and oversight over many employees, and so I would, I don't want to be so short, so shortsighted as to imply that all of that comes out in one progress monitoring tool, right? There's a lot out there. We need to take it all into consideration and be willing to really go to where the numbers are not shiny and perfect and really explore all corners of what the data is telling us. For the accurate, best outcomes for our students and our young people.

Alan Gottlieb: 41:00

Okay, thank you. And this has gone a little long, the more I think about it, the more I think these are really important conversations to have with candidates and it's so rare that you get to dive deep with candidates. The answer is that forums tend to be quick and. Not through the fault of any candidates, a little shallow because of the format. And this is an opportunity for people to go a little deeper. So if we go a little long on these interviews, I think people will forgive us and will listen to the end. You've been a great guest, I really appreciate it. Any last thoughts? Alexis?

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 41:28

No, I just wanna say dj, thank you so much for your time and your candor and best of luck on your candidacy.

Dr. DJ Torres: 41:33

I will quickly say thank you both for the really thoughtful questions. I love that we're just jumping right in and asking the really tough stuff because quite frankly, I've been thinking a lot about this and a lot of folks have been in various ways and in in various iterations of these questions. These, this is what's on people. These questions are what? Is on people's minds. And so thank you for really going there early on in this race for me, it's June now, but also not being afraid to really lead these interviews with questions like that. So I think it's very important and it's what people really are curious about. So thank you.

Alan Gottlieb: 42:08

And I think we're likely to have people candidates on more than once, just so you know, because I think as we get deeper into the campaign and particular issues surface, I think we're gonna want to hear more, go into more depth on a few topics, perhaps with all the candidates as we get down the road. So thank you so much and I hope we talk again soon.

Dr. DJ Torres: 42:24

Thank you both, I appreciate it. Okay. All right. Thanks everybody.

Alan Gottlieb: 42:26

And that's it for this week. Take care.