Season 2, episode 1: New Denver school board member Amy Klein Molk

Transcript

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 0:08

Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Board Hawk podcast. We are so excited to have a newly elected board member, Amy Klein Mulch, who is, who was just elected this past November. For the at large seat. Amy is an education advocate, former ed tech entrepreneur, and DPS parent of two. Amy previously worked as a paraprofessional within DPS supporting students with disabilities. She founded Beanstock, an ed tech company that offered interactive learning content, especially during COVID-19, the COVID-19 pandemic. She also led mentoring and advocacy programs for youth and worked in the nonprofit and entertainment sectors. We are excited to have Amy on to discuss her very early impressions of the board, what the board service looks like, policy governance. Board staff relationships, what it's like interacting with new board members and some of the most pressing issues facing the district. On a personal note, I just wanna thank Amy so much for coming on. During the campaign, I wasn't always the most generous to some of the candidates and so in my personal capacity. So Amy really appreciate you coming on and doing what you've said and, will always willing to engage in discussion. So welcome to the podcast.

Amy Klein Molk: 1:18

Thank you so much for having me,

Alan Gottlieb: 1:21

Amy. Just to start, very broad question, how does it feel now that you're actually in the seat you work so hard to attain, and how did, how does it maybe differ than the way you imagined it?

Amy Klein Molk: 1:32

For sure. I, being campaigning is such a, an incredible and awesome, and when I say awesome experience, like truly like the sense of the real world. Awesome. So many facets of it, like it's it's wonderful. You connect with people and it's also extremely hard. And it. Extremely personal. And so you get so stuck in this world of campaigning and coming out of it, winning is such an incredible feeling'cause it's that hard work that you did to get to that point. And it's truly something that I don't think you can fully. Imagine and understand unless you've actually gone through the process of running for office. That was a great, cool, amazing experience. And then entering the board, it's, I guess what was shocking was just how fast everything happens. You go from. This one mindset to boom, I'm on the board and I'm leading and I'm working with other people and I'm thinking about, our first board meeting, which I think was like two, like a week and a half or something after we were sworn in. I don't, I don't know for sure, but it felt like that. And. That was that, that was interesting, just how fast things move. But really we have such an incredible board. We have a group of people that I think are really willing to work together and from the moment I was elected and then through the process of being sworn in, I really felt support from every single board member. And that was a very cool feeling and made the transition, I think as smooth and easy as you could possibly imagine.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 3:09

Thank you so much. So Amy, what do you hope the board can accomplish during this next year together?

Amy Klein Molk: 3:18

Yeah, I think this next year is gonna be really vital in setting the foundation for how we move forward. We really have to think about the decisions we're gonna make today that are gonna set us up for the future as we look at declining enrollment and we look at budget issues. And so for me, my priorities in this first year are really thinking about. Looking at EL 19, which is the which is the policy that talks about the oh my gosh, why can't I think of the word right now? The can you guys help me with the word? What a boundaries. Thank you. Boundaries. Boundaries. Still boundaries. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Mom brain sometimes. Oh, good. The boundaries. And so that, and then I think, as we look at EL 19 also thinking about how that ties into class sizes, potentially capping class sizes and just starting to talk about that. I think that foundation is really gonna be necessary to then help us build on what we wanna be working on over the next four years.

Alan Gottlieb: 4:17

Yeah. And I just wanna, I had a question to follow up about EL 19 because, and this, I hadn't thought about this until just now, but I've been, following DP s for a really long time, like 30 years. Yeah. And the, I was a Denver Post reporter when they, when the court order was lifted and the busing ended. And that was really the last time that D District seriously went into reworking boundaries and the board, I can't tell you how many 1:00 AM meetings that went to 1:00 AM work sessions I sat in on where they were going over maps and different possibilities, and in the end they basically decided to go back to a very similar system of neighborhood schools that they'd had before busing started and the district re-segregated. And there were many reasons for that, including that the communities of color as well as affluent white parents wanted their schools back and didn't think that figuring out ways to integrate schools was as important as neighborhoods. Having the schools that were, that made it. Walkable, close to walkable for a lot of kids. So I'm curious, as you think about boundaries and all of these issues, nothing in my experience gets more politically fraught and heated than trying to redraw school boundaries and. I'm a strong believer in school integration as a way of improving opportunities for all kids. I've seen it work. There's tons of evidence, but talk about when you run into people's professed ideals running into the reality of what they want for their kids. That's where you run into it in issues like this. If you guys are gonna take that on in your first year, how the heck are you gonna navigate it?

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 5:44

And I'll just ask one extra layer to that.'cause I have very similar questions. What are the values, Amy, that you want to bring to that, that we should, that you'll be keeping top of mind as you navigate this really complex issue?

Amy Klein Molk: 6:00

Yeah. And of course, I'm speaking for myself and what I think is, important for us to succeed as a board. But it's this is what I ran on, and so it shouldn't be shocking to anyone that these are the issues that I'm really thinking about. As, let's start with values. I think that's a good idea. Alexis and Alan, I agree with a lot of what you. Said, and I wanna talk about, how I think it could potentially work. And again, this is something that we as a board are really gonna have to think about and talk about. And we know that EL 19 is there, it was brought up in the last board meeting. And and it's something that, it sounds like DPS is thinking about as well. In terms of just, we had a, I don't know if you guys saw the last board meeting, but we had a presentation about enrollment and and so it was really eyeopening and thinking about, how EL 19 plays into all of this. So I think when I think about my values, it's really this idea of making sure. That, my number one value is that we have an equitable system, and that means that every child in DPS has access to an amazing education where their unique needs are met and that we're offering the services that children deserve and need across the board. When we think about, and like you said, Alan, when we think about redrawing boundary lines, you're right. It hasn't been done since busing. And I think you also are right in the sense of integration is an incredibly important part for the success of our students. Our. Education system as a whole. It's, I have said this a thousand times, that education is the foundation of our democracy and it's the last great equalizer. And we have to what? When we look at democracy and we look at equality like that, what, that's what it means, right? Is giving an equal opportunity and integrating. To answer the question about how we would look at boundaries, I think we need to look at the schools. That are, busting at the busting, not busting at the seams, that are really pushing the limit with the amount of students in each class. And then we need to look at the schools that are very close to those schools and why enrollment is down in those areas. And that's really what for me, is going to help me think about how I navigate this as an at, as the, at large. Director. So that's really where it starts for me. And I think that it's gonna ha be a lot of community engagement. That's where it has to start. It has to start with community engagement.

Alan Gottlieb: 8:28

Okay, thanks. And veering back into a really general question. You've been on the board maybe a month, maybe three weeks. I don't know. You were sworn in not very long ago. Yeah. What, if anything, has like really surprised you so far?

Amy Klein Molk: 8:43

I just think that's a good question. I'm not easily surprised to be completely honest with you. Which I think is hard for me to answer that question because I'm not easily surprised, what is surprising is that, yeah, I don't know. I don't know that anything has fully surprised me. That's fine. That's

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 9:03

good. Okay.

Amy Klein Molk: 9:04

Yeah. Good. Yeah,

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 9:05

it means you probably went in a, probably a little bit more open-minded too, which is helpful. Yeah. So Amy, you were endorsed by the DCTA. And the other board members that you were elected with were also endorsed by the DCTA. How do you manage that relationship now that you're representing, the entire city? You were obviously endorsed by other individuals, other groups as well, but can you talk about what role you see the DCTA playing in. Not just your board governing but also just the board generally.

Amy Klein Molk: 9:37

Yeah as I said throughout the campaign and as I, I hope I try to show as much as possible, and I think now that I'm actually on the board there have been some opportunities where I've really been able to show up and say I'm here for everyone. And that's truly how I feel. I feel that I was elected to serve all of Denver. And that is my responsibility. My responsibility is to be, of service to the entire city to understand the unique needs of all of our communities and to really be there to say to my fellow board members, yes, this may be happening in your district, but here's a holistic picture. Because I am really in community, absolutely everywhere, and I also see it as an opportunity to be helpful because I am representing all of Denver. When my colleagues might need. Support or my colleagues might want to, have somebody else involved. I see that opportunity and I really wanna be that person who is there on the board when it comes to DCTA. For me, I believe that teachers are the backbone of the system. Without them, we have nothing. And. And making sure that we really have incredible protections for our educators that we're thinking about workers' rights, that we're supporting that as a district is incredibly important to me. As the way the union has always worked with the district and with the board, I hope that we can continue to do that and that we continue to. Support their mission to really make sure that our educators are being taken care of, are getting what they need. That all of all of this staff within DPS is offered that same level of a protection. And so I think we have other community groups that are focused on other. Other aspects of different pieces. And I think if we all come together collectively, we can really get a lot done. And so that's again, like I said, my value of just showing up and everywhere so that I can really lead and represent everyone. And it's a tall order, but I really want to be that voice. That's what I'm committed to doing.

Alan Gottlieb: 11:48

That's great. And just as a quick follow up, just as a quick follow up to that some of the incumbents who had been backed by the DCTA and weren't in the most recent election, one of the rea some of the reasons they weren't was because they broke with the DCTA on a particular issue or another, that the DCTA felt was really important. How do you manage that if you get to a situation where you feel like I've got a new perspective on this as a board member and the information I receive from multiple sources. And I just have to vote this way, but I know it's gonna not make the DCTA happy. How do you manage, how do you manage that knowing you could put that relationship at risk?

Amy Klein Molk: 12:24

Yeah I think transparency and. The thing that I keep on telling people over and over again is you are never going to be surprised by me. I promise that is not going to happen. Because I really believe in bringing people into the process and really hearing all sides and then leading through my values. And my values are to put community first and to make decisions that I know. Are supporting our community and their needs. And there are tough things, there, there are issues, we'll be voting we'll be voting on the on the innovation zone, I think on the 22nd. And that's something that I've been out in community listening and so when I look at that, this is just like an example. It has nothing to do with. DCTA. It's just an example of how I'm thinking. I just wanna give that perspective. I'm out in community. I'm listening, I'm hearing, I'm seeing success, I'm talking to community members. I, I'm taking it all in. And I'm also looking to your point, Alan. Are is, are when we set up systems like this, are they delivering in a way that is integrating all of our students that is really equitable? Does it look like what the rest of DPS looks like in terms of, are we serving the same communities? Are we giving people the same opportunity? And so everything will come back to, that will come back to how we are serving in an equitable way. And when I'm going to make a decision that might be hard for one per one group or another. I, if that does happen, I think the way I'll handle it is by making sure that I'm super transparent from the beginning and that I've. I brought people in, I've heard all the sides, and that I'm then very open and honest with why I'm making the decision I'm making. And, at the end of the day, I have to show up. I can only control myself and what I believe in, and. I can't predict what other people are going to do or how they're going to act, and that's on them. And so I will just continue to stay true to me. And I hope that by having really strong, transparent relationships with everyone, that nobody is gonna be taken by surprise, and that we'll get to a place of mutual understanding in whatever the decision is. But, it's hard to say what's gonna come up, and it's hard to say. How I think that's going to affect my decision thinking, but really just leading with transparency is I think, the way to go and that's what I'm going to do.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 14:55

Thanks Amy. Thanks. I do have one. So follow up to that, and I really appreciate you, saying the community input is really important. That you're, looking to represent everybody, not just a specific group, as a mom with two kids in DPS, one of my kids is at a traditional neighborhood school. One of my kids is that of popular, charter school. And to me, like they're both DPS students. They just have slightly different experiences. Sure. As a board member, do you see both. Students or families that may send their kids to charter schools exclusively, let's say the same way any other constituent or do you differentiate that at all?

Amy Klein Molk: 15:35

Absolutely. Our charter schools are public schools, so absolutely I represent all of those students. I think for me, the frustration and yes, there are. There are lots of opportunities where we are serving our students in, in all different kinds of schools. And then there also have been experiences where families have come to me and asked for help. In really difficult situations at a charter school, and my hands are tied in those situations, and that is frustrating. But it doesn't mean that we can't work together. We can't figure this out. We can't find a way where there's an accountability. I think the days of having this whole idea of competition. Or we're against each other in any way for me, like I, that ends with me. So if others want to follow along, cool. And if they don't, then I'll continue to navigate. But it's time for us all to come together. It's time for us to look at the real issues declining enroll. Budget issues, like these are all things that are going to affect every single school. It doesn't matter what kind of school you are, and it's gonna affect every single neighborhood. So we need to be looking at this holistically. We need to be making sure that we're serving our families and we need to make sure that we are holding. Every school accountable because that's really, like I said, it's this it's this ground level work of making sure that we have all the systems in place so that as we navigate these harder times that it looks like we're moving into, we've got a solid foundation. And absolutely those parents should have a voice and absolutely, I believe in representing every single family in DPS, regardless of the school that they're at. I just want to have the ability to actually make change or not even make change, but just support and find accountability when families are struggling. That's, that's the challenging part for me.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 17:23

Thanks, Amy. Similar line about, of having, feeling like your hands are tied in ways that limits your ability to govern or make change. That's been some people's frustration with policy governance and how that works. Feeling like as a board member, I'm very limited in what I can do within the confines of the district. Only limited to certain policies or how the governance model is set up. So how are you thinking about policy governance coming and knowing what you knew, during, when you were thinking about running, knowing what you knew while you were running and now being on the board. How are you, reconciling with policy governance now?

Amy Klein Molk: 18:03

Yeah. So policy governance is something that I think is really important. We, I think what we lose sight of, because yes, this is such a community oriented thing and we all care so deeply about our schools and our kids. It's very emotional and visceral experience because what is. What is the common across every single parent, caretaker, family in Denver is that they love their children and they want the best for them. And so when you have that feeling, it's really hard to remember that we are dealing with a very large system. We are dealing with a system that has. The same budget is the, basically the, as the city of Denver, this is a huge organization with massive amounts of people and moving parts and different, different groups that we have to, that we have to represent. And so there has to be. There has to be organization. And so policy governance allows us to set the vision and to set the guidelines and to set the guide rails and allow the people that we have hired to do the job. For the board, it's hiring the superintendent that we then ENTs. To hire their team to do the work, to do the operational work. And when you have board members getting involved in that, I think it can be really challenging because it's like we need to have a clear path of how we actually execute the policy that is written. So in that sense, I really think that policy governance is helpful. I think the, I think where the responsibility lies on the board. Is being really smart about the policy we write and being really smart about the executive limitations that we write and be in, in thinking about it holistically in how it's actually going to play out. And then really digging in to then the reasonable interpretations that the superintendent has of that policy to make sure that we are that we are aligned and that then when we, let it go to do its thing that we feel strongly that it's going to be executed in a way that we envision as a board, of course we're not the ones making those decisions, but we obviously have a vision of how the, it will be effective to people. And I think that really comes down to the board and writing great policy. What I do like to see, and I hope we see more of it, is even the, we still have opportunities to engage with staff. We still have opportunities to to talk and I think especially when you have people with lots of different experiences, I'd like to see that the ability to just have open conversations around, strategy, I guess is the pri probably the right word, at a high level. And it doesn't mean that has to be taken, it's just utilizing the boards and their expertise. So I really hope we see that. I think there's exciting opportunity to do that and also stay within the confines of policy governance.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 21:12

I thank you so much. And I do think that's where the trust comes in. The trust between, the superintendent and his board, the trust between senior staff and the board. Because yeah, they don't have to take. Your advice, but if they are looking at getting feedback on how to implement a certain policy to be able to have that trust in two-way communication is so important because they wanna make informed decisions just like you do with input from, all of the different stakeholders that, that this would impact. So that's, it's great to hear.

Amy Klein Molk: 21:42

Absolutely. Yeah. And I, my hope is that's how we move forward.

Alan Gottlieb: 21:50

Oh. Okay, j just a couple of more questions, Amy. I was on mute there. Sorry about that folks. Obviously you've only been on the board, as I said, a few weeks, and so you don't have much of a voting record yet, but there was one vote recently that I thought was interesting, which was that you and another new board member, Monica Hunter, voted against something that ultimately passed, which was contracting with an outside organization to provide substitute teachers where there's a kind of chronic and acute shortage. Why were you opposed to it?

Amy Klein Molk: 22:20

The reason I voted against it is I think that when, first of all, the a lot of these, yes, there a lot of. The services that this organization offers were being provided in our schools that are underperforming or are turning over? From my understanding, again, this is from my understanding and they, and I feel very strongly. That we need to have a long-term plan of how we are going to solve the staffing shortage problem. That really comes from the district, that comes from, engaging the union. That comes from a way of making sure that we have stability, not just for a year contract, but for. For an for entirety because that is how we're gonna actually help turn things around. That's actually how we're gonna serve students. We need consistency. And so I, I again. This was definitely not a vote That was like, oh my gosh, this is such a huge deal. This is, I'm gonna die on this one. This was a vote signaling, this is important. It is important that we be thinking about the future. And I do think that we have great leaders in the district who are doing a wonderful job at this. And I understand the current situation and the need. To fix it immediately. And this may be one that we look at a year from now, two years from now. And, I was not my vote, voting against it wasn't the right thing to do. Who knows, right? It's hard to predict what happens in the future. But for me, I don't want to see us contracting things out. I really wanna see us solving the bigger problem of how do we make it desirable to come work at DPS? How do we get that? And I know we're working on it. And we've got a great team behind it. So that's the mindset of where I was at. This isn't a super huge deal for me. It's more of a, and I said it in the board meeting, I really wanna make sure that we have a solid solution to this problem. And as some said, this is for a year, but I think we need to be looking beyond the year and hopefully maybe these people will turn into long term. Long-term employees and they will get the benefits of the union and we will build a strong workforce from it. But I just don't see the evidence yet. And so I'm looking forward to, hopefully we'll see that over time. And then we can really make informed decisions around it.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 24:47

Okay, thanks. Thanks Amy. So my last question, and Alan, I'm not sure if you'll have any other ones here. There previously on the board when with some of your board colleagues, there have been. Personal attacks against board members by board members as recently as this past fall. How do you plan to navigate potential interpersonal conflict with your board colleagues?

Amy Klein Molk: 25:11

Yeah. First of all, any type of public put downs about board members, about fellow colleagues to me is just completely unacceptable. We are a group of seven when you. Enter in, I felt, and of course it's not written in the oath, but I felt, when I took this oath to be a board member, I took an oath to participate in policy governance, which means that, we made different opinion, but ultimately once a decision's made, we come together and we lead as one. That is part of policy governance and we've got to stop. We've got to stop with the personal attacks. It's really hurtful and it's divisive. And I talked about it on my campaign because as there were, there, there were attacks against me that were lies that were not real and we can't have that. And we have to work together. And I, I think if there is an issue then it needs to be handled. We need to talk to each other privately. If it's an issue that affects. S the greater public, then I think we talk privately and then we take a public stance on it. I think a beautiful example is what we just went through, you and me, Alexis, where, I hope you're okay with me sharing that. We had a conversation before we got on the, on the podcast to talk about some of the, to hash it out a little bit and. Let bygones be bygones, but then you publicly took responsibility because it was also a public thing. And so I think that example of what we just did together is exactly what we need to see on the board. If something is done in a public way. Figure it out on the backside, and then somebody, and then the person needs to move forward in the public. And we just need to act like grownups. We need to take responsibility for our actions. We need to treat each other with respect, and we need to keep things out of, there's no reason to be fighting against each other in public if there's a conflict that needs to be addressed. We do it in a thoughtful way as you just beautifully showed people that can be done. So I just thought. What I would like to see on the board. And I think that's what you're gonna see with this board. I really do. Again, I can only speak for myself, but my lived experience with this current board is that's what you're gonna see. And I'm gonna try to hold everyone accountable if I can.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 27:27

Thanks so much, Amy. Okay, thanks. That was awesome. I don't have

Alan Gottlieb: 27:28

any other questions. I'll just add a little commentary and I'm not asking you to respond to this'cause I don't think you'll want to, but I feel like some of the, I feel like some of the things that. President Gaan Han said about John Youngster in the whole center debate, we're over the line, quite personal, quite mean-spirited. And so that's the kind of thing that, yeah, I hope it goes away. I hope it stays away. I hope we can get away from putting everybody into little identity boxes and assuming things about them based on that going both ways. And there's been way too much of that on this board over the last. Six years or so. Hoping you're right and that's how the whole board, every single member will operate. Yeah. Listen, we really appreciate your, your coming on. And probably would like to have you on pretty regularly if that's something you'd be open to. Just'cause I think we want to have board members with different perspectives on regularly just to talk about issues and positions.

Amy Klein Molk: 28:21

Sure. Absolutely. I'm always happy to be here and, I really wanna encourage people who are followers a board hawk, please reach out to me. This is, like I said, a thousand times. I represent everyone and I take that so seriously. So I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to talk about, where I'm at and what I'm thinking. And I think of it as a way to show community that I'm here and I'm gonna show up. If there are things that I feel, I need to share, I will. And if there are things that I feel like eh, like I don't know, I'll always be totally transparent. So that's my promise is total transparency and I would love to come back. Thanks so

Alan Gottlieb: 28:59

much. Thank you so much.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan: 29:00

Great having you on.

Alan Gottlieb: 29:01

And we will be back with another episode soon. Bye.