The Boardhawk Podcast

Season 2 episode 14: Denver school board member Marlene De La Rosa on cellphone ban policy, contentious board votes

• Alan Gottlieb

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0:00 | 46:18
Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Board Hawk Podcast. This is our second episode where we are trying something new and going on video. This week we are so excited to welcome Marlene De La Rosa, who is a current board member who represents North Denver. She most recently led an effort to develop a policy across Denver Public Schools focused on personal communication devices from students. We asked Board Member De La Rosa to come on and talk about her perspective on this board policy, talk about dynamics on the school board. She's been on with two different iterations of the board, and certainly has some perspective we would love to hear. But before we do wanted to also share that, you know, I first met Director De La Rosa when we were just both in Latino community work and I think we met probably through Cafecito. But she did spend about 30 years of her, of her career f- working in US immigration court system. So that is another podcast for another day and would love to chat about that on another time, but for today we are talking to her in her role as a board member for North Denver. Welcome, Marlene.

Marlene De La Rosa

Hi. How are you both today?

Alan Gottlieb

Doing great, and glad to have you on. Thanks for coming on.

Marlene De La Rosa

Thank you for the invitation.

Alan Gottlieb

So we can start just by asking about the, the communication device policy. You and fellow board member Kimberly Sia have led this work on this issue, and if you could just tell us a little bit about the process you went through and the recommendations that emerged. I know it was a big community process with lots of meetings and people involved, so if you can just run us through that.

Marlene De La Rosa

Yeah. I actually started this process probably like a year ago with various com- some community members and parents and actually s- the Mayor's Youth Commission brought it up to me, wanting to know when there would be a policy in place. So, started working and meeting with these people last year sometime. And then we decided once the state legislators put in this pol- the bill to every school district must have a policy in place by July 1 brought this proposition to the board if to allow me to create a board advisory committee. And so that was comprised of about 25 members of community, parents, and educators, different DPS staff. So we began this process back in December, and started meeting in January. We had seven meetings. Five of them were really focusing on content, like, we tried to think about what were the impacts of taking away, and I don't wanna say taking away the cellphone, but giving students more time to focus on, on work, giving them more time and space that they can be okay to put their phone away and focus on what's going on in the classroom, and really looking at it really in the positive way. And we had representation. We had different departments from DPS come and talk to the group. The SPED department, safety, equity talked about students with IEPs and 504s our multi-language learners, which is a tremendous population and have use for communication devices at times. And I think, and we had student voice and leadership come and sit with the group for about an hour to talk how they felt about a, a new policy on cellphones and other communication devices.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Thank you, Marlene. And before I ask a follow-up question, just wanted to clarify, the state law you're referencing that's a mandate, right? Yes. School districts must have a policy in place by July 1st. Just wanted to clarify that.

Marlene De La Rosa

Yes. Okay. HB135, 25-135.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Perfect. Thank you so much. And then I am curious I, I love that you listen to such diverse groups, particularly from many different students and student perspective. I'm curious if, if you're able to share, what were some of the things that came up from some of the student voices?

Marlene De La Rosa

The students really, they're, they have a huge concern about safety. These, and mainly were worked and spoke with mainly high school students and some middle school students, but mainly high school students, and safety is one of their concerns."What do I do in the event of a crisis or an emergency in the building? I need my phone, and I, if I, a crisis happens, I wanna be able to call my parents or call my family." The other thing students wanted to know, they, there was students that were in a photography class and they, in high school, and they used their phone for taking photos, which not all the students are able to purchase a camera, so they used the phones for the photography class. Several of the high school seniors said when they're doing th- scholarships and other college applications. They wanna use their own personal email, and they wanna use their phones, and they use their phones for a lot of that. Students mention that, I know students at North High School have their IDs digital, their school ID is digital-

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Mm-hmm

Marlene De La Rosa

so they use their phone to get in and out of the school building.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Oh,

Marlene De La Rosa

wow. They use their phones when they're... Some students did admit they use their phone for ordering food.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Me too.

Marlene De La Rosa

Yeah. Interesting they use, they wanna take their phone if they drive off campus to go to lunch. There were several- Oh, yeah,

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

that's a, how do you police that? Or like how do you... That's a hard one.

Marlene De La Rosa

Yeah. They, they need their, also their Colorado ID is now digital, so they have that on their phones. Mm what were some of the other ones? There was some, couple of interesting comments, and they said, this is right from the students, they said,"If the teachers were more engaging, we would be less likely to look at our phone." Wow.

Alan Gottlieb

I

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

love, I love the honesty.

Alan Gottlieb

Yeah. One, one of the yeah, I mean, you mentioned students being concerned about safety. What you read nationally about this issue is that parents also are really worried about safety given the proliferation of school shootings, by the way, which very rarely take place, actually the mass shootings in urban settings. They take, tend to take place in suburban and ex-urban settings. But still, you can understand the, the unease. The so there must be some sort of an emergency plan that's part of your policy, maybe that hasn't been fully developed yet, about like, so what if what if the worst does happen and kids don't have their phones? What's the plan for how they can reach their parents or their parents can reach them or whatever?

Marlene De La Rosa

It, the s- DPS safety team came and presented and this was important topic for the committee. They wanted, they shared with them that in the first seven minutes of a crisis or s- or an emergency like that, they really want the kids to focus on the trained staff in the building, what to do. They don't want them to be on their phones. They, if they were hiding somewhere, they don't want phones ringing. They just want them really concentrating on what are the directives being given. And if it's a false alarm, they don't want students calling, all the students calling their parents, parents rushing into the school or, or a lot of students calling 911 and then the 911 o- operator is bombarded with calls, and then- It could possibly be nothing that happened. But the, the district is really gonna- I think overall what I see this is a really, like I said, a positive. And how can the district really... This is really an opportunity to partner with families in the district, because there are many aspects of this that we need partnership, because this will not be successful if we don't have the support and the buy-in from families. And that, that's a crucial piece of it in, in terms of the safety, in terms of making sure their students are having everything they need. If they're on an IEP or a 504, are the multi language learners getting everything they possibly can without restricting device use? And just really how do we work in partnership to provide, like, that really strong supportive learning environment for, for families to buy into that is, is gonna be crucial to the success of this. So, we will be monitoring it throughout the n- upcoming school year, and there's an entire project manager where it will be rolling out an entire plan, safety and communication and introduction to this new policy.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

And maybe more engaging teaching in there as well. I'm kidding.

Marlene De La Rosa

Yes. Adding... Yeah. You know, we want, we want kids to not have, like, the cyberbullying problems. We want... Or if there are instances, some kids I know there was a parent who said,"My child sometimes has some an- anxiety attacks, and they listen to the music on the phone- Mm to calm themselves down." So you know, there are situations that where it is positive. Another thing the students did bring up was,"You have raised us in this digital world, and now you want to take away this-

Alan Gottlieb

Mm

Marlene De La Rosa

this whole concept of using the phone for everything, and you want to take it away from us, but-"

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

If you talk to my kid, that sounds like something my 11-year-old would have said- when I try to get him off of his-

Marlene De La Rosa

Yeah

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

computer. And like,"Well, this is your problem not my problem. You, you raised us in this." That's funny.

Marlene De La Rosa

And they wanna know,"How do I responsibly use AI? How do I responsibly use technology? How do you prepare me for that adult world when I need to go into college, and, and, and use phones or go into whatever kind of career they choose?" Which mostly everything is related to cell phones now. Mm-hmm. So they wanna know,"How are you gonna teach us the responsibility of, Right positive use of the communication devices?"

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Well, not, not

Alan Gottlieb

s- You mentioned, Marlene- Go

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

ahead.

Alan Gottlieb

You mentioned really in passing, like, cyberbullying and stuff, and I was wondering that in addition to the impact of, you know, o- o- of cellphones in classrooms on learning, there's also been a lot written. You know, Jonathan Haidt, the NYU professor, wrote a book called The Anxious Generation that a lot, that a lot of people credit with having led this whole national movement to, to ban phones and other devices in classrooms. But, but, like, what evidence did you weigh about that kind of impact of smartphones on kids in schools, both inside the classroom and outside the classroom, that led you to recommend that there basically be a bell to bell prohibition?

Marlene De La Rosa

Just to make this clear, the committee, this is the recommendation entirely of the committee, not... Kim and I just took everything the committee recommended and, and put it into policy governance language. So- Mm-hmm this is not my own, none of it is my own personal nor, nor Kimberly Sia's. We really-

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Okay

Marlene De La Rosa

We wanted to honor the work of what this committee spent over 20 hours of work time, and plus the additional research. Stanford Children came in and gave them all one of the books of The Anxious Generation. Mm. And so combined this is what the committee recommended.

Alan Gottlieb

Okay. So I'll amend my question to say- what did the committee weigh, what did the committee weigh in, like, on that kind of im- outside of academics you know, reasoning for doing this?

Marlene De La Rosa

They, we had over... As I said, I started a year ago and I collected the policies or that were currently in place in all of our high schools. I col- collected policies around the state, other districts, and other districts out of, in the, across the country, and an entire spreadsheet full of resources. So they read a lot of information, and this is what they finally decided that would be the best to help with focusing and lim- l- trying to at least decrease cyberbullying, how they can increase more social interaction for kids. Bruce Randolph did this all last year, and they said, of course, the first semester was, was challenging. An entire change like that was challenging, but they said by the second semester, ki- they had to go buy more sports equipment at, you know, they also have a middle school, so they were having to... They were playing with each other in soccer and basketball and they needed to go buy more equipment because they saw a really, an increase in that interaction amongst the students.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

I love to hear that. I do have one clarifying question and then a, a follow-up question. The clarifying question going back a little bit to Alan's point- The policy is only for personal student devices, right? That's a student's personal cellphone, a student's personal like tablet or personal, like, smartwatch. Mm-hmm. It's not a ban on technology broadly in the classroom. Like, they st- they can still have their Chromebooks in middle school. They can still do their, you know, testing on a, on a, in a computer lab. Like, that's still allowed. It's only personal devices.

Marlene De La Rosa

Yes, that is correct. And now that I put this forward, now I've been getting some emails from some parents that now want to start something in terms of reducing screen time usage.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Oh, interesting. I see- Especially

Marlene De La Rosa

in the elementary.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Yep. I- that, that I think is the next big wave that we're going to see-

Marlene De La Rosa

Yeah

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

the push and movement and the advocacy is there's really been this big push against technology altogether, even for academic purposes, which my personal opinion is that's a very slippery slope, because we've made incredible advances in in academics thanks to some of these, these new technologies. But that's a different conversation, and I'm very glad that you're taking on those questions, especially given all of the thoughtfulness you and the committee have put into to this first round.

Marlene De La Rosa

Yeah. It was, I think for me, it was really, I really loved the entire experience of really going out into the community and saying,"What it is that do you think is gonna make this work the best?" And given we had some social workers, we had the discipline team attended every single meeting. We had several of the DPS staff attending all the meetings. But just to see the work and dedication they, they had in order to come up with this language. And there were principals, there were teachers, there were all sorts of school staff in the, in the room parents that had elementary, middle, and high school students.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Well, it- you basically just answered my next question, which maybe I'll just make a comment now. Okay. You know, what I really appreciate about the process that you and Director Sia led is it truly was a comprehensive community process. While other districts, you know, we had vice president of the Boulder Valley School District, Alex Medler, on la- some time late last year, and I think just as a board, they did minimal community engagement and they just made the decision to to pass the policy up in Boulder to, to do bell-to-bell device bans. And, you know, I'm sure people felt strongly one way or the other. But I guess that's a comment, but is there anything you want to add to that of just how robust the community engagement was as opposed to maybe other districts that didn't do a community engagement process and just passed the policy?

Marlene De La Rosa

I think I attended a session at CASB with the District 51 Mesa School District.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Mm-hmm.

Marlene De La Rosa

With the superintendent, a board member, and a staff, and he really shared... I got some great information from them, and one is really how to focus on the positive aspects of this. This is not a negative in any sort of a way. We are not taking away anything, but we are trying to bring more to the students' academic experience. Thank you. And in that was the way that they they did-- They had a campaign they called it More Social, Less Media. And so they- Hmm they talked about how, you know, the superintendent, they got people to do little TikToks or videos, and it was a real community created policy and, and that's what I think will work. And I, I really hope to do this when bringing forth other policies to the district because I think when we think about when we're trying to create a policy, like, there has not been a policy like this communication device that is affecting every single student, traditional and charter, and every single school building employee, and families.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

And then just to clarify for those who may not know, CASB is the Colorado Association of School Boards, correct?

Marlene De La Rosa

Yes. Okay,

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

great.

Marlene De La Rosa

I'm now a CASB board member.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Oh, nice. Oh. W- congrats. Interesting. We, we've been- Yeah. One- We've been criticized that we have too many acronyms, so we're always trying to help

Marlene De La Rosa

provide- Yes

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

clarification to acronyms.

Marlene De La Rosa

Thank you. Well- I know. I do that all the time.

Alan Gottlieb

It's, it's... When you're... Yeah, it's hard not to after a while. One, one more question on, on this policy Marlene, and that is it's, it's highly dependent on individual principals and teachers to be effectively enforced. So how do you think that can, it can be applied uniformly? And, and, like, is there any way to put teeth to it to make sure that it doesn't just sort of slip into kind of a semi d- ban as opposed to, like, really being hard and fast and consistent across the district?

Marlene De La Rosa

From what... Everything that I have heard from the school leaders is that they wanted a district-wide policy to lean on. So they can't say,"I'm doing it this way. Well, they don't do it over there at South High School," or TJ- Mm-hmm or wherever, or DSST doesn't do that. But this is gonna be a policy and what I believe is the charter collaborative is going to take on whatever policy and im- implement the same thing in their schools. So it-- They wanted to have a policy, so it would be the same across every grade, every school- I think some of the feedback, I will share this too. As of today, we have had over 6,300 responses to the survey. Wow. And that is an absolute record for the district-

Alan Gottlieb

Mm.

Marlene De La Rosa

Congratulations feedback on a survey. And it doesn't close until Friday, and so we still I don't know how high the responses will go, but we've had about 70% of parents responding so far, so that's wonderful. Wow.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Well, depending on when we post this, we should try to link the survey as well, Alan.

Marlene De La Rosa

Yes, please do. Yep. And so it w- it will go it's in first read. The c- survey closes on Friday so Director C and I will be working on this over the, over the weekend maybe or at least, you know, first of the week so we can bring forth some amendments from what we've heard. I know some of the things that we've heard is that there might be nee- need to be some adjustments to the high school.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Mm.

Marlene De La Rosa

Because high school students drive, they go to different campuses. Some high schools like Northfield have more than one school building. So, some of the things we've h- did hear from some of the high school educators is that they don't want to constantly be monitoring kids with a phone. Kids can go out to the parking lot to their car and use the phone. So-

Alan Gottlieb

Right

Marlene De La Rosa

we may have to make some adjustments to the high school- Mm level policy.

Alan Gottlieb

Yeah. One quick follow-up to my last question about, you know, the enforcement being dependent on principals and teachers. So I guess what I'm wondering is it's great that, that y- you heard from school leaders that they want a uniform district policy. How, i- is it left up to individual schools, in your mind, or how, how do principals make sure that all the teachers in a, a given building are enforcing this uniformly?

Marlene De La Rosa

That, that will be once we create the executive limitation, then the superintendent will determine how he's gonna administer the policy and the specific details such as where is the phone exactly gonna go once they walk in the door. So that will be left up to the superintendent and his team. They've been working on an im- implication memo. We haven't received it yet, but they have been working on that, and they're trying to understand from a lot of the school leaders and the, it's an acronym that I don't know exactly what the words mean, but the OSD is the operational- something

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Oh, s- yeah, I don't know what you're talking

Alan Gottlieb

about School directors. I'm just guessing. Something like that.

Marlene De La Rosa

Yeah. Okay I don't know what it, what exact- exact stands for, but they supervise, like, a group of high schools, and they work- Mm-hmm with the s- with the principals. So they are meeting and they are working on an implication memo to present to Director C and I, and then we will, if need be, make some amendments to this first read of this policy.

Alan Gottlieb

Yeah, there'll be more devils in the details than, probably than we can imagine- Yeah at the moment as as you think about it. Just some of the things you said about high school kids and everything.

Marlene De La Rosa

Yeah. Okay. Well, thanks. And then if... Yeah. Oh, I was gonna say if you think, too, about, like, Florence Crittenton or some of our students at Emily Griffith High Schools, and some of our other high schools, they're parents. They have their own children, so-

Alan Gottlieb

Mm.

Marlene De La Rosa

Mm-hmm to actually physically take the phone away from them is not, not the best thing.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Mm-hmm. I think it's operational s- services team, I think.

Marlene De La Rosa

Okay.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

I think that's- But then I think- Thank you their title is Director of Operational Services, I think.

Marlene De La Rosa

Yeah.

Alan Gottlieb

I

Marlene De La Rosa

mean,

Alan Gottlieb

obviously- I know I just-

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

An assist from Google.

Alan Gottlieb

Just really quickly, I mean, obviously there has to be some sort of a policy also as part of what the superintendent's gonna do about how parents can reach their kids and par- and, and including the parents who are students needing to, you know... Or if there's a child- Right if their kid's in a daycare and, and there's an emergency that the school... So there's gonna have to be a really quick r- way for parents to reach their kids, kids to reach their parents, et cetera, if they don't have their devices.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Yeah. I mean, I'm- Yeah I'm less concerned about that. I mean, I've had to pick up my kid, you know, from a school. You just call the front office and it doesn't take them long to track down your child, and if it does, then they've got some bigger issues. But-

Marlene De La Rosa

Yeah. If we think back to, like, you know, when we were- Our days in school yeah, you called the office, you left a message. But it many of the schools already have something in place, so they've already worked through messaging services. I w- I only bring up Bruce Randolph. I know they have a phone in the hallway, in the lobby so they can- Mm uh, students can go use the phone. Say they wanna call Safe 2 Tell. You know, they, they have access to a phone, and that will be- Yeah made available for all the schools.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Maybe there's

Alan Gottlieb

And they know how to use a landline? a

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

phone. Yes.

Marlene De La Rosa

I don't know if they know that. I know the little ones can't tell time on a regular clock, so I don't know. We might have to

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

instruct them. Hey, hey, that's hard, okay? It takes me... For me an analog clock and Roman numerals- I never quite figured that out, and it's still hard for me, so maybe it's, it's my generation, but yeah. They're... This, these kids are trying, and so am I. Yeah. But yeah, so a, a landline would be nice for, for the kids to start, Learning how to use

Marlene De La Rosa

Yeah, because we, we still want them to, you know, say they n- whatever reason they're having an, a personal situation and they need to use the phone. Like some of the immigrant parents, they wanted- Mm-hmm their kids to have a phone in case ICE were to pick them up during the school day. Yeah. Yeah. They want to call and leave a message. They want them to know what they need to do or what's going on. So- So they feel good,

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

but yeah, you're right. That's a great

Marlene De La Rosa

point yeah, I did hear. I went to meet with some parents in Southwest Denver, and that was their big concern.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Yeah.

Alan Gottlieb

Sure.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Well, Marlene, thank you so much for being a champion on this, spending so much time making sure that the community engagement process was comprehensive. Huge kudos to you, Director Sia, and the whole board on on this policy and, and looking forward to seeing what the board finally passes and, and the recommendation from the superintendent as well on the implementation.

Marlene De La Rosa

Yeah. We're, we will be vo- voting on the final, I, I am hoping the final final read on June 8th.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Perfect.

Marlene De La Rosa

Our board meeting changed for the month of June.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Okay.

Alan Gottlieb

Oh, okay.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Great. Good to know. Yeah, I thought it was the

Alan Gottlieb

11th.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Yeah.

Marlene De La Rosa

No, it's Monday, June 8th. Okay.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Okay. Perfect. Mark your calendars, everyone. Well, we wanted to, with the time we have left, we wanted to pivot to a couple of other issues that were top of mind for us and other folks, you know, the community we, we talked to. I'll, I'll kick us off. I wanted to ask y- or ask and, and open up the dis- discussion. You know, something I've observed about you is you're very generous to your colleagues when maybe others in the seat and I'll just speak for myself, would maybe not have been as generous in those positions. And I have been very, I've been very impressed with how you navigate conflict or when there might be a, a tense moment in a board meeting, how you seem to be able to work well across differences, regardless of what that difference might be. So, you know, you're, you're cordial, you're, you're, you have good relationships, it seems like, at least publicly facing with, with your board colleagues. Can you talk about how you've... Why is it that you've been able to navigate in this way, in this way, that I haven't necessarily seen other board members in many, many years do necessarily well? How do you approach conflict on the board? How do you approach differences on the board?

Marlene De La Rosa

I, I mean, I think differences is the sign of a good, healthy, healthy board. And how we work through them, we, you know, we have to, we have to work hard at recognizing we are always gonna have differences, but that we shouldn't take it personal. That these are what people come forward and the people that they are representing are asking them to bring forward to the board. And I- And I would say after 30 years of working in a courtroom environment where there is always opposing sides, you learn to, You learn that there is, how do you come to that agreement with the two parties, and you also have to focus on what is legal or what is in policy of what, what we can do and the decisions we can make. And so I think that ex- that time working in that has brought me a great deal of skill in serving on the board. And I think also going into, you go into a board meeting and you really never know what decision might be made. It's, was the same as going into a courtroom, and even though you might have something preconceived in your mind, it doesn't always happen once you're in the, in the middle of a decision or a vote.

Alan Gottlieb

Thanks, Marlene. And even a little more specifically, I mean, there have been, at least to my mind, hints of some dis- you know, discord on the board. There's been a series of six to one votes where the president, Xochitl Gaitan, has been the only, the, the one, and the six of you have voted another way. First of all, sort of echoing what Alexis said, you seem to be one of the board members, maybe one of the few board members, if I'm not mistaken and I may be, who's able to kind of bridge the divide and you can talk to the other board members who are maybe voting in that six, but also have a good and cordial relationship with the board president, which some of the other board members seemingly do not. And I'm just curious how you've been able to navigate that divide and how you would characterize the current state of s- you know, board relations among and between board members.

Marlene De La Rosa

I mean, I think Director Gaitan and I from the beginning have agreed that we don't always agree. We come from different, different spaces, and I always recognize as long as you're honest with me about what you feel, what you're thinking, you know, I respect that. And that's what I, I respect from any of my board colleagues. Be honest, come forth to me with whatever it is. And, and we try to figure out what it is we can come to an agreement on if we can. And, and if not, we recognize that that may be a topic we will never agree upon. But her and I have talked that through from the beginning.

Alan Gottlieb

And yeah, and so you've ma- been able to maintain that relationship with her where it seems like some of the other board members haven't, which I, I just think is, is good because communication's better than, than no communication.

Marlene De La Rosa

It is absolutely necessary for us to, whatever our thinking is or whatever our desire is to wanna do something on the board, we do need to be honest with each other and recognize that we, we m- might have a difference of opinion, but how do we come to focus on what we can do collectively? We're one voice, and we need to remember that. Right.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

And I think you're also modeling just, like, good democracy for our students and teachers, especially in a world where so often y- you know, you look at Congress and it's such such a disaster, I'll just say. So to see there, there is this silver lining of there's opportunities to be in disagreement with people around policy and governance and still be respectful i- is impressive,'cause we haven't necessarily seen that on this board before.

Alan Gottlieb

And, and really the last question I think I have Marlene, is you know, despite all of this stuff we've been saying about your ability to bridge differences and reach across, there... I mean, there's certainly segments of the community that I talk to that haven't been thrilled with some of the votes you've taken over the last six or eight months. Specifically the r- the vote to extend the superintendent's contract when there hadn't been a really comprehensive evaluation done of him yet, and also the vote to censure Jon Youngquist, which a majority of the board voted to do, but which was quite controversial for a variety of reasons. A lot of the folks who are unhappy with tho- those votes in particular that I can think of listen to this podcast, so I just thought this is a great chance for you to kind of address them directly and explain those two votes and maybe just how you approach philosophically being a board member and trying to not take consistently one, quote-unquote,"side" or the other. And there you are. You're moving again. You came- Yeah you're unfrozen. Okay. So anyway, that's, that's the question.

Marlene De La Rosa

Okay. I'll start with the superintendent's contract. I believe that I've seen progress with the district, with the superintendent. I have been volunteering with the district since, let's say, 1995, 1996, somewhere around... No, maybe a little later than that. Whenever, maybe 2000. So I have been involved with the district, and there has always been challenges in the district. There has always been a huge learning gap. I would say when my own students, my twins, started school, it was likely that one of them was not gonna graduate That one of them was gonna drop out, that my son might drop out, that my daughter might end up a, with a teen pregnancy. So I have seen all of that with, especially with Latino students. There was a study where they tracked kindergartens through high school, where it said, like, five, after six years, only five of 100 of those kindergarten males, Latino males, would end up with a degree. So it is something, and I have seen progress in the district under Dr. Marrero's leadership. And especially coming after COVID, COVID, it's been really difficult, and we now see that two of the superintendents that started when he started, the Cherry Creek superintendent has resigned the Jeffco superintendent is going to resign. It is not an easy job by any means. And are there things that he can work on? Absolutely, yes. And can we do a better job of guiding him? Yes, we can. And we absolutely... It is our duty and our obligation as a board to do that, to provide guidance, to pr- provide the critical feedback, to provide the positive feedback. And so, I do believe that there has been progress made in this difficult time after the, after COVID. We have seen improvements. Are they as great as people would like to see? No. But it is, we have not regressed in any of the, in any of the important data that people look at. And so I wanted to continue to support this work. Dr. Marrero has done a great deal for Latino students. We have the Seal of Biliteracy, which this year, oh, 10 years ago, there was 195 students that graduated with the Seal of Biliteracy. This year, we had over 1,600 students graduate with that Seal of Biliteracy. So his, his commitment to recognizing students' language and culture as a valuable part of their, their education experience. His commitment now, he did the Latine Success, Student Success, which we should be seeing that data at the end of May focusing on what can we do in these nine elementary schools to support Latino students. So, and that is something I have not seen previously. And I go back to, I think when I first started volunteering with DPS, it was still Jerry Wartgow, so I go way back.

Alan Gottlieb

Yeah.

Marlene De La Rosa

So I have- I

Alan Gottlieb

go back to Irv Moskowitz, so I beat you.

Marlene De La Rosa

I'm not that far back.

Alan Gottlieb

I'm a lot

Marlene De La Rosa

older than

Alan Gottlieb

you are.

Marlene De La Rosa

But I have seen some, some positive things with the superintendent, and I've seen some positive things in the academics with students, so is the reason why I did vote to extend the contract. And I do get people that ask me all the time, why did I do that?

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Well, thank you

Marlene De La Rosa

for sharing. So what the- I

Alan Gottlieb

think some people, I think some people feel like it was a premature extension, and I think that was the probably the biggest thing I've heard in terms of complaint. What, what, what would you say to that?

Marlene De La Rosa

It, it could have been premature, yes.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Yep. I, you know, I appreciate- It

Marlene De La Rosa

could have been a little bit premature.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

I appreciate your comments about the Cherry Creek superintendent, the Jeffco superintendent, and you know, a- a- and I, you know, I'm really interested to see the Latinx student success data at the end of May. I think that'll be really interesting and would be great to have somebody from the district on to talk about some of that data. But m- my, you know, as you, as you know, Mar- Dr. De La Rosa... Or sorry, Director De La Rosa. As you know, I was helped lead an organizing effort of Latinos to, to ask the board to hold off on the extension. Again, for all the reasons for what Alan said. It, it felt, it did feel premature. You know, my con- my concern now, I guess, is w- it's the, the contract is structured such that if the board were to let go of the superintendent it would, you know, it would pay out the rest of his contract, which seems unfair. And so the superintendent, you know, isn't necessarily incentivized, even if he was unhappy in the role, and I don't, I have no idea if he is happy or unhappy in the role. He doesn't necessarily have an incentive to leave. So I'd be curious, if, you know, we, we don't have time to do this right now, but to go and look at the contracts of the other superintendents and how they compare to this one. But, you know, all that to say-

Marlene De La Rosa

That, that would be, that would be really interesting. I know w- I brought this up in one of our CASB meetings about how many superintendents or how many of the districts would be looking for superintendents this school year. Mm-hmm. And it's interesting that the, the span- lifespan of a superintendent is, wow, maybe around two years.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Yeah, that's true.

Marlene De La Rosa

Mm-hmm. And how do you see any great improvement in that time when you're trying to change an entire system, especially one as large as DPS?

Alan Gottlieb

Yep, fair. Right.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Fair. Yep.

Alan Gottlieb

And then the other one, again, just circling back and th- to the question about the censure of, of Jon Youngquist- I think- and your decision to vote for that.

Marlene De La Rosa

I think from reading the investigative report, from hearing the staff who felt they were treated in a negative way, that is not something that is, I don't condone that, and they felt that it was racially, there were race- racial, I don't know what the word is.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Oh, bias.

Marlene De La Rosa

They-

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Racial

Marlene De La Rosa

bi- Yes racial bias, yeah. Yes. And their interactions that they had with Director Youngquist, and which was why... You know, I, I, when I was, my daughter was at East, and I served on the CSE with Director Youngquist, with Mr. Youngquist and I was on the, another committee working, focusing on our students of color in the district there at, not in the district, but at East. So spent a lot of time getting to know him. And it wasn't something that I, I was very surprised at that, but I listened to what the staff shared.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Thanks for

Marlene De La Rosa

that leader. And so I just think that we as school board members need to always hold ourself up to the highest standards, because we are ex- showing, appearing as a role model to our students, and it's something that we don't want to happen in, in any school situation. So, which is the reason I voted that way.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Thanks for sharing. That, that was gonna be our last question, but I actually wanted to throw one more at you. You know, we, you and I saw each other, I think, last week, and we're talking about, y- I couldn't remember if you know, you're, you're the first Asian-American on this, elected to the school board, and- Yes I believe Fi- Filipina by, by descent, right? Yes. Which is so exciting. Congrats. And, and, you know, we need as much representation and diverse representation as possible on the board. Y- your, your comment about racial bias just made me think. You know, I've seen over many years different iterations of the board, especially with Black, white, and Latino board members, and now with you, with multiracial board members who you know, is Asian as well. I, I'm curious to get your perspective on what is it like as a school board member who you iden- identify as a woman of color, I would assume, and then navigating racial dynamics and politics and policy as a woman of color. I'd just be curious to get your perspective on- You know, the strength of that, the challenges, bias you may encounter as a woman and as a Latina. Like, I, I would love to hear your perspective on, on what that's like on this board, and maybe even on the, on the previous board as well.

Marlene De La Rosa

I, I think it's always challenging. You know, we always come where that kind of feeling that you have to prove yourself above and beyond and over more than everybody else. So, it is one thing that I really, I strive to do always to present myself in the best possible way, in the, in the best possible manner, and it is difficult as a female sometimes in working with different people not just on the board, but we have to work with a lot of people in the district so, and I've, you know, as board members we're always treated with the utmost respect. And so I also try to do that with everybody that I interact with in the district and on the board, but it's challenging. It is challenging sometimes when you're trying to represent, if I wanna come and represent Latino students, and then we get into kind of a dynamic of,"Well, what about the Black students? What about the White students? What about these different populations?" Is-"What about the students on IEPs and all these different categories?" And we sometimes get into this, like, we're struggling to get a piece of the pie. You know, we want... I'm sorry, my cat just woke up and he's like-

Alan Gottlieb

I was gonna say- And on Zoom videos your cat wants some screen- Yeah your cat wants some screen time. Show us your cat. It's okay.

Marlene De La Rosa

Yeah. The cat, you know cats love laptops.

Alan Gottlieb

Oh,

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

yeah. Also pets are always welcome on Board Talk.

Marlene De La Rosa

There.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Oh, cute.

Marlene De La Rosa

I lost my train of thought. Where was I?

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

It, how it's

Marlene De La Rosa

hard sometimes. Oh, I was saying-

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Yeah

Marlene De La Rosa

we're struggling and fighting to get, get something like, you know, is it lower income? And you know my, I was a mom on free and reduced lunch mom and my kids were in Head Start, so I felt like it was a struggle or people were,"Oh, well you don't have any education knowledge. What, what would you know about anything? You're a single parent or y- you know, your kids are on reduced lunch. What i- what do you know? You don't have the expertise to talk about anything." And so you feel like you're always trying to prove yourself when it's unfortunate that sometimes you get into that having to feel that way.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Yeah. Thanks for sharing- Okay that, Marlene. And, and I think it's mo- more important- To have representatives that look like and have lived experiences of our diverse student population. So thank you for representing our, our kids.

Marlene De La Rosa

Yeah. And, you know, and it is not, it is... And I think one thing that's so challenging and when you're on the board is because you are working and you're making decisions and policies with people's most precious thing to them in the world. So it's always hard, right? You know, we're, the parent's always right and the parent always wants more for their kids than any other kids get. And so you're always trying to navigate that as well.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

That's generous of you. I do not think the parent is always right. Well, they believe they are always right. I'll, I'll just speak to my husband. My husband, my husband is a parent and not always right about our kids.

Marlene De La Rosa

Well, they believe they're always right. Yeah, right.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Exactly, right, right.

Marlene De La Rosa

And, you know, you, you have to recognize that.

Alan Gottlieb

I'm gonna

Marlene De La Rosa

clip that, Alexa. Yes. But-

Alan Gottlieb

Okay. Well, Marlene, I really appreciate you coming on and spending this much time with us. We're probably at time. Any last thoughts or anything else you wanted to get across before we sign off?

Marlene De La Rosa

No, I just I just wanna continue to try to do the best I can. I'm really committed to that community and, and parent engagement is, which is what something I did when I was in the district, a parent engagement campaign when I was volunteering with DPS. And that's something that's super important to me because we all do need to work together because it, it takes all of us to do that.

Alexis Menocal Harrigan

Well said. Thank you. Well, thanks so much for joining us, Marlene. We really appreciate your time. I know especially this season, towards the end of the school year, you're starting to do graduations. You obviously have a huge policy you've been working on. Congratulations on that, and good luck to you and the board on, on passing that resolution. And thanks again for joining us. We're, we're excited to hope- and hopefully can have you on again sometime soon.

Marlene De La Rosa

Yeah. Thank you for the invitation. I appreciate the opportunity to share a little bit about my experience and my thoughts.

Alan Gottlieb

Well, thanks again, Marlene, and thanks to everyone who's watching and listening, and we will be back again soon with another episode. So long, everybody.