Race Director Doesn't Utilise YouTube | In The Comments

In this episode of In The Comments, we're joined by Paul Albon of Big Bear Events. We dive into the highs and lows of putting yourself out there on YouTube from self-doubt to creative breakthroughs, the hosts discuss the real impact of audience feedback—both constructive and ruthless. Should you show your face more? Is criticism always valuable? And how do you navigate the fine line between improvement and staying true to yourself? Tune in for candid conversations, unfiltered reactions, and a deep dive into the realities of online content creation.

If you would like to appear on the show, you can fill in our application form here: https://demo.rupert.digital/podcastapplication

Paul's Links

https://www.youtube.com/@bigbearevents

https://www.instagram.com/bigbearevents/

https://www.facebook.com/bigbearevents

Transcript

0:00

We'll start your YouTube. But before you go on, suppose you could. Do I get to defend myself before I'm attacked, or do I get attacked first? I'm saying all this from a place of love that is adding zero value. I'm incredibly self-conscious. That would make me go and do another one. I think you should do them. And I think you should have your face in it more. That's more engaging, do you think? Yeah. Apart from on race day, it's me that does it. The problem, my normal, my band is that you've only got one set of eyes. I think you'd kill the vibe if people thought they were being recorded. Your marker is on YouTube. Searching for ISIS. You need to utilize it more. You're neglecting YouTube. I'm just a shy little boy that doesn't want to reach out for fear of embarrassment. You've got to do it. How do I find him? I would be banging up drum every single week. Different videos, camera going, this is what the Big Bang events are. This is the whole point of the show, right? When you then look at it and really think about it, you not silly. Just give myself crap. Even Iniesta. What a way to start an upside post cock ground. Haha. He's not even sweating. Yeah. We've not even looked at one page anyway. Welcome to in the comments. Morning. Afternoon. Afternoon. It depends on your listening, I guess. Afternoon. Here. It's half 12. Yeah. Running late today? Yes. Thank you for coming. No worries. I'm intrigued. Yeah. This could be having just looked at the front page of my YouTube. This could be a car crash. What's going on? Oh, it's a well, I, So big contacts is we we know one another anyway. Yeah. So you, start come into our marketing push events in Warwick? Yes. Which I stopped doing since selling the agencies because it was just cost me money. And although I love giving to charity, I'm not that charitable. So. Yet. So we met there and then I then found out that you've run a running event. Yes. And I like to run. Yes. A little bit. Yeah, but I think I actually, I called you at the wrong show last year somewhere, and then a bloke in the running shot, he guessed it. Well, and then I sort of felt a bit, a bit weird because obviously those so they, those marketing push, what we call them say shows events. I said I found these incredibly useful, but I realized that I was one of 30 people or whatever, 50 people in a room. And so you, you know, and I never really, engaged massively with it. So I was just a man that was there for a bit and then walked out having eaten some cake. So you didn't realize who I was when I came up speaking. But yeah, I really enjoyed those. I got a lot of value out of these. They were good. Well, I, I sort of wanted it more. It was more of a brand perception thing for for the agency. I want us to be seen, like we're really, you know, doing loads of really cool stuff. And I'm a big believer. Practice what you preach. So if I say to someone, go and do this, or if I don't do myself, you know. Yeah. Let's see, I believe you're a con artist, so you should literally be doing what you do preach. But no, they're good. So we met through that. Yeah. I've been said for years that I'll come to one of your events. Or just over our time, which I did do for the first time cou two weeks ago. Yeah. The DaVinci rice, which I loved on your first when you were done of Paul. Yeah. Paul's. Yeah. I've never done one so rocked up. Got to wear one pieces to footwear. Totally ignored it. And I've got Paul in there which is neither smart professional. My professional opinion I think because the, the context I guess is that they're trial events, but really it's more just they're not road events. So there's a there's a difference between running on the road and running through a farmer's field. And that bit in the middle is where my events are. You could sort of walk with the kids around there and that get a bit muddy. So you don't really need big trail shoes on. No, but I, I was stupid. So for people that don't know who you are because obviously we know who you are. Yes. Who are you? What do you do? And why are you here? So, for me, I guess, to start with. So, I've, as we just discussed, I have a zoology degree, which is completely irrelevant to anything else that I've ever done. But I've got that. I used to work for HSBC. I went through the graduate scheme and was a branch manager in central London, and I lost my soul to that. So then I tried to get it back by going into teaching, which I really enjoyed. And then I've got two not two twins, I've got twins. So two children. And then essentially when they turned up, I stopped teaching my wife cards and working to earn the actual money. And I set up Big Bear events. So Big Bear events in a nutshell, for most of the events, we put on six hour laps running events in country parks and forests around the Midlands. And they're sort of the real niche, despite the fact the six hour part is quite niche, is that they're generally midweek events. So the one that you did two weeks ago was on a Friday? Yes, it was on a Friday. I did one yesterday. That was on a Tuesday. The next one we've got in three weeks on a Thursday. So that midweek events so they're not huge. This isn't sort of closing down a city and having 40,000 people. They tend to be about 100 people running around doing what they want to do. Low pressure, do what you want, have fun. Okay. That's about it. Really. And why here. So we've sort of we chatted before. So I mean I was chatting to Michael earlier and my actual in terms of actually organizing the events I probably spent, I don't know, half an hour a day doing that. And then the rest of the time is spent doing this stuff because there's no point organizing great events and doing all the bells and whistles there if nobody knows about it. And they, they don't turn up. Like the difficulty is that there are just so many events even doing what is quite a niche style. Other then there's still loads of events out there that people can go and choose from. So, just to sort of illustrate this point, the 100 Marathon Club, which is what it says, a club for people that run 100 marathons or that want to, they list all of the marathons that are run in the UK on their website. Every weekend there'll be at least ten you can pick from. Every week. They'll probably be 4 or 5 or 2 or 3 across the country that are midweek. And so if you want to run somewhere and you want to run a marathon, especially, you've got all the choice you want. So you've got to try and stand out from what other people are doing, and it's just trying to get through the noise of social media to make sure the right people hear what you're doing. I don't know if I've answered the actual question, but I've spoken for a long time. It's a fair question. It's a fair answer. I think you'll hear because you like marketing. Yeah. Like some sort of stalker. Is that what you mean? I know about marketing stuff around. No, but you you know, when we speak, you've always wanted to, you know, you want to grow the event because obviously, it grow to a certain degree. But you, you're aware that you'll always have a churn rate. Yes. You know, which is natural in any business. So although yes, you're getting, you know, the moment you're at the capacity pretty much across the board, which is fantastic. Yeah. You're fully aware that on average ten, 15 whatever, the percentages will not come to the next race or do the more next year because they've got different commitments now or they've taken different work, whatever it may be. So you now need to fill that gap in the way you do that is by by marketing. Yeah. But what you don't have is a multi-million pound budget, like no money brands. No, no, I'm not London Marathon. I'm not going to go up buying all the companies and doing whatever they do and having a, a yogurt partnership and all these sorts of things. I think that is helped. I mean, I'm relatively new to LinkedIn, which I'm sure we'll get onto that. I really enjoy seeing the latest London Marathon partner, because every single item you could ever buy in Sainsbury's, they've got a partner for that. So they've got they've got yogurt, they've got, shampoo, they've got all these partnerships. They actually got a shampoo partnership. Yeah. I believe it's redox. I mean we might be, so I'm not sure. I don't know if they've got shampoo or if it's like shower gel or like they've probably got two different people for that. I just makes me laugh so much because I can't be. I can't be more opposite to that. I mean, I use charger, but I mean, in terms of the, the big bear, like, it's just it's so funny. It does make me laugh again. I've not answer your question, but there you go. It's fine, it's fine. So so you need to plug a gap. You don't have multi-millions like the Utmb is like the London Marathon and we won't get you started on YouTube. Because we have not got physically the time to go there with that. You need to be quite clever and creative in terms of what you do. Yes. You started this eight years ago. Yeah. Eight years like this week. Yeah. Okay. So again, perfect. You created something brilliant. Like I went to the event last two weeks ago and I was, I want to say blown away, but I was like, this is really cool. Yeah. This is a good this is a really good event. And what I liked is there were so many different types of runners. So you had, you know, people that I, you know, so was a lapped event was next. Five although I think your meter was off because also the lady that did the thing also had the same as me. So I anyway. Well, we won't go into that, but they were great. I thought it was really, really good event. I thoroughly enjoyed it. There was so many different types of people there, you know, good one is bad, one is old, was young runners. It was a real mixture in terms of diverse teams. Absolutely. Quinn and everyone went away with, you know, with a smile on the face, you know. So it was really nice environments being, you couldn't get lost like, you know, in some of these races. It was it was really inclusive. Yeah. That's what I liked about is really, really inclusive and and yeah, like I said, the British market is is huge is getting more and more, busy. Yeah. And there's a lot of noise. Yeah. So how do we make you guys stand out? But what you have done the last year, you know, you've you've created a community. Yeah, yeah. Your Facebook group now consists of lot 2000 people. Yes. There's 2000 people there. Mailing list of around two and a half, 3000 people, I think, I think Instagram followers might be 3000. So it's definitely people and and without sound too arrogant. The people that come do enjoy it. So I've, I use a platform called Race Check to get result, to get reviews on that that pitch essentially use them for years prior from the start. That pitch is that they want to be the trust pilot of of running, running events. The problem that I have with that is that no one ever seems to use reviews when they're looking for races. So like we've discussed in the past, you'll go to YouTube videos and watch what other people are doing. Yeah. Rather than type in, you know, YouTube reviews. Whereas having just done an extension, sort of put a kitchen in there is not a single item in that kitchen that hasn't been searched. Whatever the exact brand is the exact model and review. So if it's not scoring above 4.5, it doesn't get in my kitchen. Whereas when it comes to events, no one seems there's not enough people doing that, because if they did, I would have 20,000 people in my events. Been a bit hyperbolic, but, you know, my events I've had 1500 reviews on my events over the last seven years. So I asked them to pull through all the data for me. I need to count up how many those have been. Five out of five. But it will be the majority of those events, I think I did. I did a quick average of those 1500 reviews and the score was 4.89 or so, like very high. It's actually 4.9. I had an event last year, that scored so it's a bit of an odd way that they do that scoring. But essentially to get actually five out of five is quite rare. Most people get like 4.9 or something. I but I had 35 people score it five out of five, which then has made that event the top rated offroad running event in the world because they do foreign ones as well. So we'll say it's in the world. And that's sort of one of my little events with a hundred people that from 100 people, I can get 35 people to then review it, which, you know, London Marathon only has 20 reviews each year. Fine. They're not really asking for it the same way as I do, but I get really good engagement. So that's a very, very long way of me saying that the people that do come to my events tend to enjoy it and tend to come back, but the same as with you, you enjoyed it when you could come ten days ago. You can't come every week right? And not many people can because being midweek makes it quite niche means that life gets in the way. Or, you know, I work on a Thursday or whatever it whatever it is. So I have a lot of people that come back, but very, very few of them can come back every week. So, yeah, it's it's, the retention rate is really quite high, I think. But it's about trying to keep putting people in, like the bottom of the funnel so I can then just keep turning them round, because the churn rate, you're right, would be a sort of relatively high or not high, but there's obviously going to be churn because it's just life, but a lot of it tends to be, oh, I'm not running, I'm injured. I'll, I've moved away or whatever it is, I don't you don't get many people like, oh, I'm just 40 events now. Whether they just don't tell me the cases, people are polite. But we retain a lot of the people because it's just nice. And it's a different environment for you as well, in that when you're running, when you're running your races, if you're doing 50 K point to point, you've never seen the people sort of towards the back of the course because they're effectively in a different, different race. I'm not the front. I mean, but you're not you're not either. That's my that's layer just but you're not at the back. Yeah. But you I mean yeah you're decent. So you're sort of pushing towards the front and you're, and you're racing. Whereas when I go to a place when I go so I'm doing Trans Gran Canaria marathon in a couple of weeks, I'm not racing it, I'm going for a good time. I just want to go and experience it. We've done it before. It's brilliant, but I just want to go out there and experience it. It's going to be great fun and the people at the front are effectively doing a different race to me. Whereas when you're doing lap events, you see those people and it's just a bit, it's a slightly different experience, whether it's better or worse, I guess it's for people to decide, but it's a different experience to write. I'm going to run 50 K away from where I started, and I'll never see these people before, because I'll actually be at home with my feet up before they finish 50 K. So it's it just adds a different it adds a different vibe to it. But everybody, every sort of seems to buy into it because I think there were sort of 3 or 4 guys that essentially went off at the front, which I think you were one of them. And they sort of I think you were I was like, okay, so but they sort of they might never dropped. You never dropped too early, might, you know, none of that nonsense. Just, just, you know, people talk to some higher might just. Right. But it's nice seeing that people just they sort of come and get what they want to get from it. They just keep. Yeah, yeah. It's no with not having the set distance as well and it being based on time, it means that you can have people that are there that just want to come around ten K and just do it slowly, but just enjoy the day. Yeah. And they can make some people that want to come and race for six hours and also feel part something. So like if you think, you know, I want to do a race, oh, I want to do an ultra race because it's something that people want to do. Yeah, it's quite intimidating. It is. Right. Whereas yours because they could do ten or they could do 15 or wow, they could even do 20 K potentially. Yeah. God what an achievement. Yeah. But they're not coming with I've got to there's no DNF. Yeah. Which is amazing. Like I'm, I'm a little bit I know this is very running centric. And we'll go onto your pages in a second, but I, I have to giggle at DNF, so I love a YouTube channel. It's like live DNF for the first time, and I'll sit there and just laugh. So if you're not, you're not doing F1. No. Have like absolute wet wipes. No, I've got no interest in that. I watched the guy from New Zealand, I think he is who did the Utmb bay snow down here last year. Yeah, yeah and I know it very hot right. Yeah. He crumbled after I position 100 K maybe 700. Got covered out like 45 K and I'm like, you're an idiot. What are you doing? One day you'll be humbled and then you'll work it out. So that's there are there are two give you nominal athletes give you context while they're gone. Pen on Barry away my hamstring was in a whole heap of bother. Yeah, whole heap of bother. Managed to scrape for it. Yeah. Managed to go for it and well done for toughing it out. But there was one for from the other you'll be. Yeah that's fine until that one foot won't go in front of the other, or there's somebody stranded with a stopwatch and you've timed out like timed out. Yeah. No, no, I get that. I get yeah. The time about worried about that on some of mine is coming up. I'm worried about that time out. But that's the my concern bubble there. I will get there. But anyway. So yeah. No. But going back to your point around the reviews, like I understand the review site, the race checker, the problem is how many people are to using it. Like for example, I go on YouTube and watch videos. So the Cat 100 I'm doing, I'm annoyed at the moment because there's only one video. I can find this in bloody English. Yeah, and it's a guy from Holland that's done it, I can't find. No, it seems that I've even looked at the the last three races years, looked who's English in it, and then put them into YouTube to see if they've got a burning channel. Yeah. Can't find anyone. So I'm annoyed. The icon and yeah really understand how the race is. But what I haven't done is gone on any other sites to go, what's the you know, what's the reviews like. So I would suggest that it's because you're doing a European mountain race and European mountain. Right. And find it is now a YouTube race. I don't and I'm, I'm assuming that I'm right here anyway, that that race has probably been around for multiple years, has a lovely history. And then YouTube came in with a big pot of cash and said, we'll have that. Thanks. That tends to be that tends to be the way they work. So they'll be it will be a different vibe. So if it's the first, I don't know if it's the first year YouTube I've had, it might be second. You probably won't be many more than that. Once you get their claws into it, there'll be loads more English speaking people over there, vlogging and being influencer type people doing all that but will come, don't worry. But which is good. But and although it's like negative, like you said, the hot is being sold in out that race. Forget all of that. Right? You get the nice sides of it if you get it. From a pure acquisition perspective. Yeah. I want to say what it's like before I spend. Yeah. 250 friend could whatever it's cost me before I make that that jump. So I mean obviously I don't work for YouTube. I'd be very surprised if they didn't sort of pay for vloggers and things to go out there. So then in the next year they can then do that. There's like loads of like Ben Parks one for adventure. There's loads, as I said, there's tons of them out there. And I think, you know, I assume that's true. How can I make much money? Those vloggers, those one on ones I've considered it. I recommend you could do this. Yeah, I've, I've pondered I have pondered making a run so I don't I really don't engage massively with it. And we've again we've spoken about this and I, I think you need to yeah I know so because then we'll go into your YouTube channel and I will. Oh yeah. Actually all love. Well, Paul's just talking. Michael can you go on to YouTube, a different YouTube, and walk in, run for adventure, please? Just, so show the difference. Because I quite like is, is thumbnails and stuff, so he he, Oh, we forgot his name last time. I can't remember his name. I don't even know his name. So I think a lot of his, his stuff comes from, brand partnerships, would you call it that? I guess he did the Soft Times 100 last year. He's done quite a lot Centurion stuff. He's at Moz. Did I pay him? No, not the Moab Floyd. That's it. That's Floyd Purvis, is that it? This is his website. It got some website. Oh, there's Mrs.. So he does lots of, so I mean there's a lot of stuff there with the YouTube stuff. So if you go back to that, okay. Whatever that was. So Ark of attrition YouTube trades YouTube. So I think he goes out and does quite a lot of vlogging stuff with UTM. B well, when it was UTM b, but now the Ark is part of the YouTube family. And they'll have other events as well. I would imagine they'll get more people like him to go out and do things, which is good, because the casual runner like me, I'll probably spend more money with on the races that I can actually interact with more on YouTube, because I can actually see what I can see. Yeah, I can actually see and, and, and I get that. And that's the reason that you don't have that yet is because those races are sort of underground type events. I mean, it's the last one yesterday called The Running Monk. If you had those guys. Yeah. Shropshire way, I think they put events on. I think he does YouTube stuff. I don't know, I can't remember who, who told me about him yesterday. Yeah, but there's up to tons. But what we can do is for. Let's go. We're going to. We're not going to criticize. It's pretty the best way your evaluate evaluate criticize with love criticize enough because like so we'll start your YouTube up before you go on suppose YouTube. Right. Bear in mind I'm, I'm saying all this from a place of love because I've seen your events now and they are brilliant. It's good when you have to, when you have to talk for five minutes about how how nice you're going to be. Yeah. It doesn't normally. No like really really good. So if you look on Lloyds YouTube channel okay. Now bear in mind I think he does a pretty does this for time now. Yeah. Or at least he's got a part time he does. Right. Okay. So he's got and clearly he's very good at editing and stuff. No. Getting a lot of this has to do with like you know different shoes and stuff. So it's a lot more a thing. But he does little, like the Road to Jordan. I think it's called that. Jordan. They do. He does these little series. Yeah. And I think there's some stuff that you could, you know, I don't like pen part. So I don't like his voice when I put him on in the, in the TV. My other half guys, he's not the most annoying voice. I do sort of gravy, actually, I don't, I, I only know the name. I've never. I don't think I've ever. You need to get anything. Yeah. Right. So so I would look at him but let's see if we look at that. So it's engaging. There's lots of good thumbnails there Michael. You'd agree from a man behind the camera. You know it's quite cool if we then go to Big Bear events I've definitely taken a different take. Yeah, so do I. Do I get to defend myself before I'm attacked or do I get attacked first? What attack you first? Yes, I'm. I'm really curious. So do you want to know what I use? The YouTube. What? What I essentially use YouTube for? Yes. Okay. So can I guess. Yeah. On race briefings. Well, yeah. So not in landscape. No. In portrait. In portrait. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because you know. Yeah. Anyway, so the main, the main point of the YouTube channel say the race briefings are only they're sort of the I then remember to do about 24 hours before the event. So we spoke a little bit about when we have canny cross events. If you've got dogs at the start line they tend to go ballistic. And so no one can hear anything you say. So I put a race briefing online for those 4 or 5 people that come with dogs, so they can then listen to the race briefing. If their dog goes crazy, they can then go for two minutes and then come back once it's all finished. So that's what they're on for. So that is very much not so now that that events happened. Really, I should just get rid of those videos because they are redundant. Really. So that's not really what I use the YouTube for, despite the fact there on my YouTube channel. What I tend to use them for, for all the little bits that are in red there where I've tried to make the little thumbnails and they, course previews for every venue that we go to. So as much as, on the day I want to make it. So it's a low pressure, nice environment to run in. It's and you might not be able to relate to this because I can't massively. But so many people get so anxious before the events of where am I going to park? What am I going to wear? What am I going to do? How is all this stuff going to work that personally, I sort of just turn up and be like, I'm sure it'll be fine, but a good chunk of my runners are the comments or people that come to my events. They they suffer with, with the anxiety. So I've put out loads of what I would call sort of like static information or content. So. So for DaVinci Country Park, what to expect? So I did it a year ago, but you know you know you ran across that. You can see what the car parks like. I'll show you where the toilets are. I'll show you what the how much the car parking is and things like that. Can you paint card? Pointless detail that calms a lot of people down. So it's not sort of sexy or glamorous at all. But that's. That tends to be what I use YouTube for is. So it's a lot of these videos, they're a year old because I think last winter I thought, right, let's try and smarten them up, because if you if you go back to ones that are a lot older, they've got nothing on them at all. Yeah. So those ones, so we're going back there five years old, some of that. So I can probably burn off a lot of those ones. But it's just to try and make it so people know what to accept because somebody says trail. Well, is that going to be up Snowdon or is that going to be around New York common? It could be anything. So I want to show people what it's like, because I've been to events and to many people, I've been to events where it says something on the website and you turn up and it is the opposite. Oh, there's parking place. Well, okay, it's a 25 minute walk and it's a triathlon. So I've got to take my bag and my it's a nightmare. So I want to sort of show people that I'm not talking rubbish. And this is what you will get. So that is what I use YouTube for rather than sort of outwardly promoting stuff. If that makes sense. Okay. So I think that's a good idea in terms of showing people the the events. Yeah. If you scroll up, Michael, and if you can play one, but just take the volume down, just so we don't, hear it. So these are good. But you're not in it. No, no, this is me running around with a GoPro. So, again, having listened to your podcast and the stuff that you do, I'm starting to realize that I've got to put my face on these things. Yeah. Interesting conversation. So on yesterday, actually, and she sort of commented on, oh, it's, you know, essentially see, you're sort of in more of the stuff that you're doing. I, I wonder if anybody sort of thinks you're trying to be like a essentially what influence it. I think, you know, I don't think you are, but I wonder if that's what some people could like. Here's a thought. Just one of my regular runners, like, so we we chat and she's, she's brilliant. Massive fan. But she was I I've noticed that you've started changing things by actually getting in the pitches, and I don't like. I don't like being the center of attention for these things. So I much prefer to be sort of faceless. But again, listening to lots of stuff that you've done, I've realized that I've got to sort of be the face of the company because it is just me. So when I first started out from social, I, I didn't want to be involved. It's all wrong and to build it and I can be totally face behind it. Yeah. Like I can, you know, be the old and kind of I've never seen realized very quickly that I can grow this ten times quicker by just being around a being seen as a face of it. Yeah. I didn't want to. I have no interest. I like even this stuff I've got around in my personal life. I've got no wins, I've got no social media profile in my personal life. Obviously, you know the stuff alone, nine, ten of the works. I don't have any social at all. I live a very discreet life in my own little worlds. I'm not saying I don't speak to anyone at school. Gates got no interest in them. Yeah. At parties, I sit away from all the all the other parents because I've got obviously no interest. Very discreet. Yeah, but from what perspective? I then go, I'm going to have to do this because it's going to get us quicker. So the woman that said that, the reason why she said it, I'm sure she put it and she's really nice. It's just different. It's because it's something's different. And like and the problem is with, you know, customers because that's what they are, you know, whatever. However we like just to, to phrase it, is that the second is different and it's and it's something they're like, not not that they're moaning, but they'll give you their opinion and you're like, well, great, but we want to grow. So anyway, so I guess. Yeah, yeah. And that's what made me negative. It's just the reality of like I've had customers in the past can oh well you doing this now. Yeah we are. Does it matter like my, my b business. Well are you doing social media now. Yes. Because all it is, is a how is it going to impact me. That's what I'm worried about. They're not worried about the business. Or are you. What they're worried about is, who is if there's 500 people here now, is this going to is it going to impact how I run it? No, because that's it. So it's not it's not being negative. It's just the reality of a customer thinking solely for themselves. Yeah. Which is annoying because they do what they do. Your race briefings. Fine. I would keep them on that in terms of these these, run round to the. Yeah of the courses. I think you should do them and I think you should have your face in it more. Yeah. So when I first started doing them actually, so like the old ones that are sort of five years old, I'd go along with a GoPro and essentially put it down and then run away from the GoPro and then sort of do that all the way around the lap. So it's essentially just me running away from things. So yeah, that one where my feet in it, and it's just I then was sort of realizing it's just me running into a camera. Oh, I what did I literally just do the first few bits where I do, like run around. It's more engaging, do you think? Yeah. I did one for you today, actually, Michael, I put my phone down when I was getting my bike up the, side of the house for this is the thing, like, it's I and the reason. So I went to the running show this year that you were at as well. I didn't record anything there, mainly because I thought it sound awful, but also, I'm incredibly self-conscious of walking around looking like a tent. Right. Well, I'm going to talk about I want to talk about that because I've got some other ideas for you. Okay. So in terms of YouTube, you need to which part goes into I was going to say so the race briefings. Fine. Keep them on there. I think them so I can hide you can hide them actually, you can make them, public. Yeah. It put them in the playlist. I would also look at because I think going round the course, if I'd have watched that, I wouldn't have wore my things. Yeah, I wouldn't have wore them, to be fair. Yeah. Because I didn't miss my mindful. But if I did watch the video. Yeah. And it was more engaging or more watching, got I'll, I'll just wear my Nike ones because on on all the emails that you obviously read when I send out the pre-race. Yeah. Obviously on all of those emails, there are links to the YouTube channel with the videos as well, because we'll get on sharing multiple, you know, it's good. So the, the emails that I send out before the events, they have links to these videos because like I say, so many people don't want to know what the course is like, but yeah. Yeah. So I would continue them. But I think you need to put your face in the more and I would also put them into different sections. So like if you look at Daventry I would say that you have free sections in my world. Okay. So that's how I say when I've been racing, especially lapped ones always work out just for my brain to work. Yeah, yeah. So you had the the first bit which was from the start. Yeah. To the ring round. Yeah. Up until you hit the top of the the Damo. Yeah. The wall. Yeah. The wall to the wood. Yeah. The second bit and then the rest of it, which obviously a lot longer is the third is it's stent, which is obviously all under cover. No wind, because that wind actually the dam wall was like, yeah, the first couple of laps of was taste like. Yes. So I would potentially break it down into different routes or different segments of the route. Yeah, you could do it again. This is just ideas. I was just because I know how I work. And then you could go, okay, well how can I make. Because then you could do like a little bit in between of go. Right. This is, this is the so you know, the segments five. You know the the distance distances five k segment one is this bit here. And then it just seems intimidating like how well they got segment done. The dam wall was only 550m. Yeah. Yeah. You know this is hand and you've got the last bit which is you know again that's that's just my ideas. But you I would have your face in there talking you through each segment. Yeah. Okay. And this is you know you've talked to Michael about opus. You can clip on Euler. It's actually a thing. So yeah I would do that. The second thing I'd love you to do and I know you have the go. The video didn't show. Yeah. Which I thought was brilliant. Yeah. Was good. Yeah. I mean she just turned up and did it offshore running around with the camera all day. So I thought this would be good. Hopefully I'll get some sort of content out of that. And yeah, her video is actually. Do you watch the video? And I thought, you know what. Yeah yeah yeah yeah it's good. Yeah. That would make me go and do another one because of a video. I'd have done one if you just said I totally forgot. You should have annoyed me. It's like you do me a video I'd have done one with. This is say, and this is what I sort of always sort of want to do, I guess, is go out to people and say, come on time, if you want to come and vlog at them, you know, come around for free or whatever, happy to show you stuff, because most people are happy enough just to have their content shared. You know, that's a bonus or whatever. And yeah, I think that's good. Very. I thought her video was really good in that it wasn't it's not like a puff piece of sort of talking rubbish. It's actually this is what I did. And yes, I quite enjoyed it. Yeah. It's good. I've got four is really good. So yeah, I think you should get more of that done. But what, I think you should do. Yeah. Is I think it's a lap. The van. You're very lucky with the respect of. You can walk a lap, and it would only take you an hour and a half. Yeah. And, you know, an hour if it's five K or whatever it is. But I think you could interview people while walking around because a lot of people walk in during the event just naturally because they're. Well, yeah, I reckon you could on lap too. Yeah. The second the, the first place comes in, you should walk around with a mic, you know, you can buy something cheap like this. Okay. And I think you should have a backpack on or a behind you, which is like, come and tell me why you're running so now someone less and just get quick little pieces of, you know, what's your name, where you come from. Yeah. What lap you are on, you know. What are you running for? Yeah, I have a story. You could just do one lap and you did not. So you're right, because I've already tried to start doing it. So I guess it was before I tried on doing a podcast now. So I've done a few websites and I've only heard one is the one out. I've done two. So I did one after the Squirrel challenge, where I then interviewed people that essentially at the aid station, so I didn't get anybody. So I'm on it. So you get invite I where is that on TikTok? No. So that but that's so on TikTok. I've I guess plugged it. That's that last one. So yeah. So that's me wandering around telling people sort of what's going on at the event. So again, I did it yesterday where I only chatted to a few people. So the the problem and again, this is this is a me problem, but I have loads of really good conversations with people at the finish, but I don't want to then sort of force it, but I don't. I don't talk to me at here's a, here's a phone right now. Talk to me because I mean I sort of need to do that a little bit, but I have so many great conversations. I mean, there was one lady that I saw said, you know, can we do a little bit camera so I can put it on the podcast? And I had the phone out and then she said like three words. And then just sort of like broke down giggling. So, oh, I can't do this on my phone, put the phone away and then chat to her. That would have made brilliant content for like five minutes. And how much? Shit. Now she never done events like this is so much fun. It's so nice to have like no pressure. All the stuff that I wanted to say to a phone, but she didn't want to say to her phone. I obviously didn't record anything. So it's it's really I 100% agree that I need to get people on the, at the event talking about the events, because whatever I write down, whatever I put out, no one's going to believe it as much as seeing somebody say, I loved it, it was great, and I'll come back again, but walk in with someone doing it. So, yeah, you know, there's, I commend what it's called now, but the reason why, people have more open conversations while they're driving is because you're next to each other. But if you're going in one direction, it's the same with you. If you're face to face, it's a lot more intimidating. Yeah. Whereas you go for a walk or you go, whereas again, because you're so much walk in, I think you get some great, you know, because there's obviously there's so many stories of people that go to your events like, you know, I'm, I'm training for this or, you know, there's, there's low, you know, there's, you know, again, the lady I've got, there's so many there. Yeah. But all you need to do is one up, you'd need to do one lap of walking. And you said, what are they. Not even. I mean, the beauty of like you say, the lap format is all I've got to do is sort of walk up and down for a minute and just catch people as they go in and just, yeah, have it on a, bloody selfie stick and just walk along and get both through as we go along. And then it's not as intimidating because it's not a phone in your face. Talk to me. No. Yeah. I think that's what I mean. I I've only done it for two events now, but both times I've had people that I've chatted to for like a minute about actually, can we do this and record it now? Yeah, yeah. I've been like, okay, how do you get on? And then they literally just just think from the words and they walk away normally giggles or whatever. But it's it's very different. Whereas if I had just recorded some of the conversations because now I have one great site, the plan with the podcast, is to sort of give, I guess, a business update as to how I'm getting them. And then to try and get little interviews from each event and then just to add in a bit of personal stuff, because what you were saying about the, it's sort of been been sort of more of a face of it and get my face on things more. It comes from, I guess when I was in HSBC, it was very much we, you know, you're working for a company with 300,000 employees. Whereas you've got to try it with with a business like this, you want to try and feel big enough. They don't think they're going to turn up to just a bloke with a van and get some jolly babes out the back of it, like events I've done before, but I don't want it to be sort of. So I need to be bigger than that. But I don't want it to feel like the corporate machine either. And like YouTube, where it's just faceless conglomerate puts you out running. So I think what I'm starting to sort of get towards now is people doing things we pick. Yeah. Because it, it's just me like it's not we have volunteers. And as I said earlier, like my parents have volunteered everyone. There's lots of familiar faces around. But apart from on race day, it's me that does it. Like it's it is me. So we've got a great business like these races, like I, like I said, they're fantastic. I because apart from being a marks machine, you know there's not I don't say this, you know, I know this a little bit and I but you saw the location. You know, you got to spread some cheese and stuff on some sandwiches the night before, a bit of Marmite like, then we're done. So you insurance out thing. Boom. Let's hope it doesn't rain not far off. Like it's great where you just go make sure if people turn up, even if they pay because it's great, they're paid, but you actually want them to turn up as well. Yeah, yeah. Which you want to. You want a small selection to pay and not turn up, but you don't want many of them to do that because otherwise you've got no event because you need people there in some atmosphere exactly where you want to, you know, because that breeds more confidence in the rest of it. So you need that. So I think doing that into while you're walking around, I think you could do you could call it the lap. Yeah. Like I'll just give me a name. Michael. Right on the crib sheet. The lap, the lap Paul album. The lap. Perfect. Yeah. You do one lap of every single race because. So yes. Sort of. The problem that I then have is because it is a one man band that just the timing equipment actually requires me to be narrow because, okay, I sort of need to be that far. The concept is still right because I can I can then pick people up. You know, I don't have to go far. I can I can go 500m, one one way, me the other way, and I can pick people up and I can still be around to sort problems out. But the idea of actually interviewing people while walking along, I think is a much better way of doing it, rather than like, say, sticking a phone right in the face because rain gauges all this stuff going on. Yeah, yeah, people running past and stuff. Yeah. And it shows people the course rather than the finish line. Right. Exactly. And, and and it highlights that you don't have to be running balls out for six hours. Plenty of people walk. I mean, there was a guy I of I shouted at him yesterday, so he was running along as I get on. So I've only ever done a half marathon. But it's it's great because loads of people are walking. So. So can I say. Yeah, of course. Like people if you don't know I'm. Writing's good. I like writing poems. I got there a lot. The kids. It's great. It's good. Yeah. A lovely place to run. It's just spot on. But if you don't, if you don't do these sorts of events, you don't do ultrarunning. People think that you're doing 50 miles and that you're doing a park or an at 50, 50 miles or. No, like one guy at the front might be if he's world class, but everyone else is just loitering about. Yeah, wondering about having some cake and running, which is I've just I've the cake, but yeah. Cheese sandwiches. Get on a train. Just so. Yeah. So you need to do that. The lap. Yeah. Call it what you want. Yeah. If in the laps. Great. Well, no. So call it some like that, but you've got to interview them while walking along. Yes, you've got to do it. Yeah. On the next one. Yeah. Got to. You're going to be there. I, it's on my diary at home. Michael knows I've now got behind me in my office. I'm the worst person for booking stuff like in the back. So I've bought a four year calendar and I put stickers. Dots based on what color they are and what I'm doing. That nice. Nice. Just so I don't forget. So I turn around and go, yeah, I'm free. So these are excellent. So if you're on my dot, it's a red dot. Okay, fine. So you need to do it. Yeah. And I'd be nice if I got invite. I, what I think you should also do is now, this is a bit rogue type into YouTube. TCG, live, event store, you know what I mean? You don't have to say the name, okay? You mean the Pokemon? Yeah, yeah. So I, I don't I've never seen this other event, and I think that you should. This could be something you do. I think you should go live all your events at the finish line. Yeah. So you get that. So, but like, but but like, if you see this and the reason why I use this, this Pokemon stuff is because it's like it's everywhere at the moment and they're all selling cards, but it's so engaging. It's so, so engaging because he's gone live. You can then save the life. So you can have this at the start finish line. And after everyone got a camera, Jake's the number one. You know, Jake's first you should say is yeah, that one is five minutes 20 or whatever. You know. So yeah. So engaging and there's less pressure on because you're not then producing the camera for them to be to be the camera is just there going, you could just have a mic on. You say, so what we watching is what he's clipped up right. Yeah. Yeah. But then it also goes live. Yeah. So I'd be, I'd be very nervous of, of my conversations finish line being live now and say there are why. Oh no, no that would be like massively offensive or anything, but I, I speak relatively candidly, finish lines. So there are I've worked on events and there are big events that have live cameras from aid stations. So I think it's, like Lakeland 50 and Lakeland 100. You can watch their eight stations live and but if they have no sound on because people come out with all sorts of things, like not a lot of things. Yeah, but I think that you'd I think you'd kill the vibe if people thought they were being recorded. I the idea of having a a live camera, without sound would work I because I have sat there and it sounds, it sounds really good, but I knew somebody that was working at one of the aid stations, and it's sort of on like on a farm yard bit. And like I say, it's just people like buttering sandwiches and giving out water. And I watched that for like half an hour. And why? I don't know why, but if they were talking, if they were talking, going 100, 102, you know, making a joke like you could be on the start line saying it got off. So you have to be a little bit conscious of what you're saying, but I'm sure you're not saying anything really bad. No no, no. Hello. It's like just talking through, you know, Jake's just finished a lap wall and he's come in at 25 minutes thing, you know, currently, you know, because it's engaging, isn't it? Yeah. You wouldn't even have to think you just. Oh, like, literally as you did with me. Yep. James, what am I, you know, lap 511. Yes. So you're doing the UN difference is your clipped up. Yeah. I mean I like I say I'd be I'd be scared of doing that live and publishing but may be doing it live to then clip up afterwards. Yeah. Because this is like they've obviously filmed the whole day and, and they just edit in the bits that are good. But yeah, it's just more effort than it's more the effort. That's what I'm thinking of. Yeah. Unless you can put them to opus after. But yeah. So people will do you do get there's a few companies that do live stream, especially the whole Backyard Ultra format. And no live stream for like four days of people running around a lap. I didn't do any of that format, but the there are some companies that do it, but I yeah. And just to be clear, we're not coming out with like horrific languages. No, no cancel. But it'll be just things that probably you don't really want to publish. I don't I can't I'm trying to think of things, that I would say that. Yeah, I just think that people would act differently if they thought they're being recorded live the whole time. I don't think that would definitely be noticed with, even if it's just on yours, even if it's just on, like, where you are the day of the day with the boost. Yeah. Just up there, you know, you're going, you know, Barbara, Sandra Laxalt. Yeah. Well, you know, again, it's that's what I mean. Like, it'd be good to, to get that and flip it so that you get some sort of good. I could get like good company because you were clipped up because you will obviously have to dialog them with other people. Yeah. It's good. I see you again. You'd have to look at obviously what phone you use for X, obviously all that stuff. But yeah again it's not. Yeah. Obviously you've always got to be comfortable what you want to do, but in terms of showing people the event, people doing it, you know again you know that FOMO as well. You know, people go, oh, you know, I didn't book him for that one. I need to book him for the next something already. Help. But again, working on YouTube, you know. Yeah. Your market is on YouTube. Searching for ISIS. Yeah, yeah, you need to utilize it more. Yeah, 100%. Because you're neglecting YouTube. I don't yeah, I don't use it for people trying to find things. Which is obviously not YouTube. Maybe the second biggest search engine after Google or something. So it's definitely, a missed opportunity, but I don't know, I what do you think it's better to reach out to people that already do it or try. And I can't really create my own stuff. So, I mean, just reach out to people that have got big followers. Yeah, I would, I would reach out, you know, to the Romford Ventures and, and and all these, you know, and because it's such a different race, you know, to fact that lady that did it, you know, she's very unassuming, isn't she? And I've just, Yeah. You know, I, I when I first saw, I was oh, okay. Fair play you I cried and little things get out. The one that was on TikTok is up this one. No, this is still somebody then like, is somebody doing that? I don't know, know. This is if I've even seen that one. Just. That's how across it all. I'm out there. We have race bibs. Yeah. You had a race bib on. Yeah, but that might have. That might be, is it my bag and was just me. Is that this? Yeah. And went straight to your account. Now, what are you trying out? Looking for somebody, trying to do something that works. That's what I'm like. Okay, okay. That looks too sunny. No, I'm pretty sure it was when I wasn't. It was not. It was lovely. Yeah. It says 26 for January. Yeah. It's lovely. What was. That's the wind. Oh. Like people. Say it even commented on. Hey, hey now that was this year. I didn't even comment. So yeah I do remember that. That's perfect. So over here. But that's good. Yeah. And that's that good. And but I don't I don't tend to, I don't tend to get loads of people that do that. You know I don't really attract that crowd. No. Because they're a bit more, so understated runners, I guess, because it's not as glitzy and glamorous as a great big finish line and Canon's going. Yeah, it's not that no more subdued, but people will still be searching for your races and looking for content. Yeah. Oh, I, I'd, I'd love to have more people come in and doing that. And you could do one a race if I had to find them. That's, that's the go on to YouTube and reach out. I've run for adventure. That Lloyd guy say if he's up for doing some. Yeah. What's what's worse than the excite? No. Seeing this is he's only got 50,000 subscribers now. He's not big time. I reckon we could do a running channel. Michael, you and I be hilarious. Yeah, well, I mean, I've had the running channel. I've had the running channel come to a couple of my events. Hey, guy. Which is always been good. They tend to sort of come to them to do other things. It's sort of like a, a side part of it, if that makes sense. So it's not like it's the main focus because, I mean, they are a big channel that is sort of half million to a million people, I think. I think I've got a lot. Anyway. But yeah, I mean, I guess this is another thing that we've talked about in that I'm just, a shy little boy that doesn't want to reach out for fear of embarrassment. So whereas you said how you sit in the corner of, of social events and then when you've got to get your work head on that changes. I don't change for the way you're an email in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is it. And this is what I sort of need to be more proactive with. It's reaching out because again, a lot of these guys and girls, if that, if they do it a lot, their weekends will be busy doing different events. But their midweek it won't be. So they won't be. Well they won't be. And also the good family view is that, you know, although, obviously you run this. You're also a director for Centurion. Yeah. They'll. No, no. You know, if you look at this guy, for example, he'd run the Snowdon. So, South Downs and stuff like he'll know. Yeah, he'll be running the races. You're directing some of them. Yeah. So there should be some. There should be knowledge from a few people. Like it's it's, it's not, it's not odd, but it it's what it is in that I think I think the lady we're speaking about with the, who did the YouTube video sort of comments on how she's done lots of centering events but doesn't necessarily link me working for them. And and Centurion. So she's not really put the link together. Hopefully the more that I do, it's in sharing because although I've worked with them now for three four years, it's sort of little bits over and over. And the more I get into that world, hopefully there'll be some spillover, some crossover, because my events are good to train for those longer events. It works nicely. So it's not as though it's chalk and cheese. They marry together quite nicely. But it's yeah, that's sort of that crossover is out of my control a little bit, if that makes sense. It is. But I think actually reaching out to some of these guys. Yeah. These vloggers, you know like obviously we're looking at Hammies, I let's say one of the biggest bigger ones, but there's loads of small running channels. Well this is it. And I don't need so I don't necessarily need them to make videos to then go out to their 20,000, 50,000 people. I need them to make video to me, to them put out to my audience and people that I'm trying to find and then bumping that up. So I mean, that guy, 300 subscribers or whatever. So when he does stuff, I'm not that fussed. It goes out to his 300, but he gives me good content that I can use and some of the content I watch. So for I put the Soft Arms hundred, sometimes 100. I must have watched. I've watched all they say I've watched. They got, that's all. Yeah. One of them flew out too quickly. That made me giggle. It was that guy, actually, if you go up that guy that. Yeah, he flew out so quickly. I think, I've watched pretty five, six, seven videos, all of them 40 minutes long before I press the buttons. But yeah, just a bit like a holiday, I suppose if you want to look up videos of people there to see what it's actually. Yeah, yeah. Big commitment. Like it's like for a hundred mile event that's costing you 200 pounds, taking your whole weekend. You're training for six months. Whatever it is, it's a big commitment to make. And so you don't want to you don't want to spend the money out and put your time into it, and it not be the event you think is going to be, I might be in some of these fires. I mean that. So the sometimes 100 is one of the biggest ultras in the country, 700 people for the last ten something years. Some quite times they'll be there'll be some of the country's best. Yeah. I'll just look because I was looking at the times. Got oh, oh I wonder if I can and I was I know say now it's well it's part of the World Travel major series. They'll be internationally good athletes will come along as well. Yeah. I've looked at some times as I go to cancer now that's a different race sometimes. Why 100? So third place? Yeah. There's two races. There's South Downs in the South Downs way 100. There's two because I've, I think I've watched one of his and it's actually a different race altogether. So there's like seven people in it. Yeah. So the, the joy of naming events is that as much as you can copyright like the full title, the South Downs is obviously a national trail. So you can't you can't defend your copyright, particularly because I think it was one of these where he went, oh, I know I came third. I was like, that's not quick. And I wasn't thinking in my mind. I go in, I'll do that. And I was like, how was he? And I realized it was a totally different race altogether. I was about 50 minutes into the video and I was like, oh, it's a different race. Yeah. So yeah, Youtubed to use your YouTube more when it comes to video and you need to reach out to influencers, big and small, you just have to do it. Yeah. After you've got to do that. So I was not didn't realize that's not great for the video for the audio. Yeah. No I agree I've got to do it because that's the biggest thing from today is because people are again, they are on YouTube. Look at all that. Like, I know some of these are, but like she's only got 10,000 views. That's 10,000 people has engaged with that video about the South Downs. What I love 10,000 views. I don't get anything that big. All of my stuff, sort of. You don't need 10,000, you know, like a thousand. Like you don't even know a nada. Yeah. So you need that's where you know, you really I think, you know, you've got a venture running now. Like she's already got a thousand views on that one. Yeah. Nelly. Brilliant. Absolutely fantastic. And she's like tiny. Yeah. See, when you search for it, you'll find lots of things to do in California. Yeah. So it's, it's great fun having a Facebook group that a lot of the people that come in, trying to find out events today when they go on holiday to a lake in California. Okay. Which you're not, which I'm not nice. Which, in hindsight, when I was naming it, maybe I should have thought about that, but I didn't think about it. But now. So that's that's the that's that's the biggest one is YouTube. Yeah. In terms of your Instagram and Facebook. Yes. Right. Cheers. So this is essentially where I spend most of the effort is on, Instagram, Facebook because that is where my audience is. I so go back to Instagram, Michael. Michael, can I get your opinion? Scholar. This on the already on the on the bread. What do you mean? My opinion just generally. Yeah, I think that's okay. It's not like, stand out to your guess is might be what you're getting. So you get that or they all look kind of similar or so they don't want to look the same. So I mean, they look the same because I use the same background for. Yeah 90% I think I de I, I I think, you know, a picture tells a thousand stories. Yeah. I think by putting a lot of the, you know, backgrounds on the Reds, you're sort of less for the actual. Yeah. You're don't, do diverting people away from, you know, that guy that what I framed looks like, you know, he's in a rural bad state. Bless him. Or send me like they're the pictures that's going to, you know, they're telling the story. So, I would potentially look at just tweaking it, maybe just put in, like, for example, these little emblems here. Look. Yeah, he's got that Mike. He's got it like all these little ones here. Scholar. And then there's some other ones. Hey. Yeah. So that's just little stuff like that. Or maybe the images, you know, like stuff like that. Yeah, I don't think. Or, like, you're losing all this space here, which could be, you know, it's just, you know, I think it taken away from, you know, again, the, the surroundings people are running in say rather than so, so for every event I essentially have sort of like, I'll make it sound more glamorous. A media pack for every event where I've got, Instagram square images. So we'll have that picture, say, for instance, that Ryanair challenge. That's the front page. And then, like the second image on that is then the details of the event. Yeah. And then I also use that image as well as the header on the website, so that then that same image sort of carries through. I then got an Instagram Stories version of that. Yeah. So it's all all the branding looks the same. So hopefully wherever you engage with big events you will see sort of like the red stuff everywhere because you know, that is my my color I guess. But are you saying then that stuff that engages better is just pure pictures without any information on, well, you could use that as an overlay. I was going to say if you had that as if that was the full size, and then down the side you had the stats say on one. So essentially just use one picture. I don't know if that's what you got. So yeah, you could, you could, you could still do it and say, I like your idea Michael, of that thing is a little bit different. If you go to the left Michael's, rather than keep moving up every two seconds. Is you've got race checker there. Yeah. We've, we've, I think during this conversation agreed that no one knows what race checker is or so. Is there any value in having it. Well, so if you go into a chip shop and you say it won an award three years ago, do you care know who it won an award from? But do you not think that's an award winning chip shop? No, because they're all award winning honor. Well, yeah. Yeah, they've won something. Right. But yeah, it's like in the marketing agency about, you know, best SEO agency and CV for one to HP. Yeah. You know. Oh well, we're only the agency, only one agency in the in, on that road. So no one looks at the detail today. So I, so I get your point. But I always think with these that if I can put like a, a gold label on it, wherever it's coming from that then make somebody think, oh it's going to be decent because they don't really get that on race entries. They all we all saw past that. Now you're eight years old. You've got enough social proof. You're doing yourself a disservice. Pop your eight years in, you get most of your events now are totally full. Totally. So they have been recently. Yeah. No. But yeah, but because it takes time, you know, you're eight years on. Yeah. That that is adding zero value I think to Michael's point is you could put on one. You still put on two. But like yeah you know that race track is at a absolute zero. And also from a like this thing obviously like you know I've got an issue with this came across me just got on my way. Just move and and I don't like dogs barking as well. I've got a real issue with dogs barking. Yeah. They don't tend when they're running. So the dogs that come to the events, the most professional dogs you'll ever say they have on the sat, on the bark. They can't. Yeah they can. Yeah. They no I'm, I, I don't like dogs at bark. I've got real issue with it because my I've trained mind bark when he said when I tell him so. Right. Okay I'm sorry I don't I have like there's dogs in here where we are today. Yeah. Not bark and all I want to do is throw them out the door okay, okay. Because it's just, it's rude if you're in a coffee shop, I don't. I hate your dog. No, I, I agree. What? I'm trying to hear the race briefing. I don't know how your dog. So, like, take it over there and out my way. And that's why I do the right three things for Cannae. Cross on each APC so they can move. How many county cross do you get per event on average? Between 5 and 10. But so it doesn't sound like loads, but that just nicely tips the balance over from having an event with 70 or 80 people to then having an event with 90, you know, 90, 100 people say, I only do cannae cross in the winter. So it's only really 6 or 7 events a year hence. So of highlighting that this is a Cannae cross event, which is good as well, because you've worked out that's what it means. Just from the paw print. So that's the idea of having those little logos. So on all of the different events, if it's, you know, a bit quirky for some reason, like so I do one that starts at 6 p.m. and finishes at midnight and once, that's in early May at Beacon Hill again in Leicester. So for that one, I've got a little on what day is it as a Friday night. Oh, nice. So Friday night one that finishes at midnight. And so for that one I've got a little icon that's got, sun moon or something. So hopefully you might not necessarily know what it means straightaway, but it sort of alludes to. That's what it probably is. So you're saying then if you were going to redesign this bit, you'd go rather than having any sort of background, you'd sort of fill it with picture. I'd have it a full image. Yeah. Full image. Photo. I'd have your big, better events, you know, like, you know, long ago, as it is, I'd get rid of the race. You completely had an absolute zero value and I would put a, like Michael said, overlay, for example, like here or just, you know, what I'm, you know, is, is a silhouette, you know, so you could watch behind, say behind, but you're missing so much, like, so much space, of like image, which could really, you know, that could be a lovely blue sky above there. Yeah. I have no idea if it as well. Yeah. And the, the big issue that I have as well with essentially the naming of the event is you've got no idea where is it, because it's not the lock for ten K or the Leamington half where you know where it is. So and because it's midweek, so you've got to get those details in straight away because you don't know if you can do it. You don't know where it is, where it is. So trying to get all that on one image is probably better. Now. The Instagram's changed to 4 to 5 rather than 1 to 1. It means that there's a bit more space for more information on that image as well, I think. But also you can you know, you can you know, you've got the text description, you can put it in the, you know, people. Yeah. Remember that's just to grab someone's attention. Then they're going to click more and then read the rest. Okay. Do you think that there's do you think if you sort of just have an amazing image, people then genuinely click through to the like the essentially read more I just get quite a lot of information and you say, yeah, that's very busy that that photo that they're all very busy. Yeah. Because you don't understand what like you get it's running. Yeah. But your eye is already you tracked into the top because the red. And then you look on the left and you've got this weird logo for gold, something which no one even knows what it is. Yeah. Even in the running community, you see the dog. Okay, fine. This dog races, but only people that run would understand what that means. Because I don't know what the dog thing meant. No, no, but then I'm always conscious of sort of. Because as it's become clear over the last how long we've been talking for, I'm not great with brevity. So I could fill this with about 15,000 words if given the chance. I'm always trying to sort of do less and less and less. So to the right I go on to the next image, because then on the next show, the next one is like the key information. So where it is, when it is, how much is it and what's the course like, say with that information? I would hope that 95% of people that understand what my events are like would know, oh, I can make that Tuesday. And now I've got the key information that I need. So that's the idea of I would add that on to on different ones as well. I'll probably, as free as a carousel of free hero image. The the details of the race in terms of like miles elevation trail. Also on that it doesn't say it's six hours long. Yeah. And then on the next one I would do location, date, time. And so do you think then so if we if we turn that into three I think then have like a final one with quite a bit of text. One not a lot, but like more text on explaining what the event is. Because like you say, unless you know that there are six hour events, this does not tell you that. No it doesn't. No. So do you think like an explainer sort of picture that. So you know, six out of ten do you want. It's really fun. But then you've got to get I think you've got to get a real mixture with this because obviously that is just a, a, you know, people the problem is people following your page. Very few people even get served this. And anyway this is the issue with Instagram is your years. You're now with the impressions. It's just tiny. Obviously using rails is going to organically push out further. We know that. Yeah. So you know I know you saying about doing the pieces camera, but I would just try and get as much content as you can in these races. But even just trying to explain what my races are, I would, I would be banging that drum every single week. Different videos, camera going, this is what the Big Bang events are, right? Okay. So so again so I've got to in terms of images, I've got something like 50,000 images. I've also got I've had videographer turn up to three separate events. So I've got like really good what I would again call like static imagery that just work. So, you know, the images I got were great. Yeah. So I've got loads of sort so selling point for pictures. So I've got all of these, these sort of all this media that I can use. So I'm, I better essentially setting cameras up in a much less professional of than this, but setting cameras up and then talking to camera saying this is what my stuff. Yeah. Or do I essentially voiceover stuff that I play around with and put together me and my collaborate to buy. I buy this voiceover all the time. Don't worry. It's good. But it just obviously takes more time. Just takes more time. Obviously shoot camera like like your podcast. You don't. So you did it in, no. You did a desert landscape. Yes. So this was to because I was thinking like, I want stuff that I can then use on rails and stuff like that. And then somebody sent me a picture of them watching the YouTube on their TV, which I just didn't even know was a thing, really. Like my kids watch. So I send them, so they'll watch them football highlights that I send from YouTube on to the TV. But apart from that, I do not watch YouTube for a TV. So I watch it now. So I watch it every night. Yeah, I, I, I didn't know that was a thing. Yeah. It's not I don't know your kids are up to these days just watching like runners basically. Yeah. See I didn't know and angles so I'm in Vermont shock. Oh sure. I don't know that it's so, so like the farms in Vermont, right. Okay. Just watch him and his life. Right? I'm into farming. It's it's fun. I used to work on a farm as well. Anyway, we don't get into that. But now I've started recording them in in landscape because there's clearly it looks awful on a TV in, portrait. So I have changed that around. But also, YouTube shorts will always be like that anyway, so that's fine. You can still do it. You can still do it vertically. That's fine. If you want your TV, there's nothing you can do about it. Even like if I took on shorts, it's fine. But if you're going to use it for the for like an actual YouTube video. Yeah. See, landscape. I would continue what you're doing for for the shorts of just do you tell them what the event is. What do you mean? So YouTube shorts, Instagram reels, TikTok or vertical? Yeah. Even if you watched YouTube shorts on your TV, yeah, I'll still up pony because there's no way around. There's no right. Because you can't. The TV can't then change. Yeah, yeah. The dynamic dimensions of the of the video. So that's, that's you said that's there's nothing you can do about that. So if you're doing this stuff to camera, just continue in in vertical if you're just using them across that medium. Yeah. You mean more like that. Yeah I know that or just did that. There we go. Oh gosh. Done. Yeah. So it's that's more eye catching that it still has obviously it doesn't have to look like that. But no no no I get and I have more information on this I can swap through to another one. So seeing that yeah. Well Dragon. Yeah I mean I can because so I have somebody that does all the design work for me I actually. Yeah. Well so I do I take all of that, I do so she makes all the metal, she does all the metal designs from, I've used the same one for five years. I think she's an Argentinean. She's got a job now, but she was a design student at the time because essentially I went on to, Fiverr to find someone to design metals for me. So I didn't want to do was use the same people that make the same medals for every single running company in the country, because you get the same stuff. So I've got someone that knows nothing about running doing design work for me anyway. So she does. She does all the design stuff for me. She does what I ask her today. So I asked her to make the things that we were looking at. So if I ask her to do this, she'll come up with stuff that will be really good. Do you like that? Yeah. I mean, you know, obviously you play around with it, but the gist of it is there, you know, what you're getting. And I've like so I've got so much imagery that is really good, that works really well. I've got such variety that I tend, you know, because obviously the problem with with that, I know you've obviously just done this in like two seconds, but the problem with that image is that for starters, it's for white men in short shorts over the front. Yeah forget that. So forget that for there's not loads of space either. Is that said kind of you know don't do that. That's the problem. You say don't do what you're going to do or black out, get pigeon out your presents with but you can't see it. So without no because no you can with you would be able to with the gradient and stuff. I know what you trying to do. Don't do it because it's awful. Sometimes we then going to put some shade behind it or you're going to keep it solid like that. Keep it solid. Well I probably would have done that and then sort of made it transparent just so it stands out too far. I'll give you a I wouldn't shout at that. Okay. She even to me, to be fair, I can actually I'll give you a little bit little background on this one that I what she looks right but it stands out doesn't that. Oh yeah. I mean you've gone from so on my ones the image was a third and now the image is 90%. So you know that is a running event and you've got key details down the side. Brilliant. You know that that is a better look than what I've used. When you like you say, I mean, this is the whole point of this show, right? Is that when you then look at it and really think about it, you are actually like, that's the bit you get in the habit of just doing it. How you doing it? So you never yeah, let me mark all the time out stuff all the time, as you can tell. But because like it's different opinions isn't it. Like the problem on your wall. My wall, my band is, you've only got one set of eyes. Yes. And mean, even if you're going to pay someone to help you consult. The reality is no respect. Consultants 99 times out hundred. They're going to blow smoke. That's really good. Yeah, because that's what they get paid for. Because they do not want to lose your your your your custom, your image is fine to get you where you've gone. I think to get that next bit summing up, this is just, you know, it's different. You know, it's really stands out obviously. Look you've got your your color palette anyway. Yeah. And you've got loads of imagery that stuff you could bash out hundreds of those. Yeah. Yeah. Hundreds of those forever. Yeah. You know, but go back to what you've done, Michael. I, you know, I personally fear not. So you know it obviously it's different and everything. Yeah. Yeah. The, the the blueprint of it. You know it's that. Yeah. You know, it it is you know, you know this. You know there's not five minute not five minutes worth of elevation. It starts at nine. That'd be six hours for example. And it's 50. Obviously that would be maybe, you know, five K. Yeah. You know, the concept of doing it like that and then having maybe so you have that is sort of the front page, the next one, the details, but probably with no imagery but just clear details. And then a third page explaining what a six hour event is, because it never really dawned on me before that somebody looks at that and maybe their friends liked it, and then they see it on the site. Or what is it? There's nothing on my posts about my events that say it's a six hours. I would say some people would think, what on earth is this? Because if you go back because even I questioned it, Paul I'll be honest. Yeah, yeah. He's when I was like what was a bad challenge. Yes. When and this is the like you say like that when you put, you put that time behind anything and it sounds strange. No, I know, but I did I, I was like, I, I know it was in the back, I was maybe it was. What was it. Maybe something I know. Well you know but you're right though, because if, if that said, because of the, the sort of strange, the slight oddity with the naming if that said Leamington Half Marathon rather than Rhino Challenge, you'd know what it was because, you know, it's half marathon, but because of the odd format and because essentially they're all named after animals, which is intentional, but like they're all named after animals. It you don't know what it is. So you need some details up front that tell you, and I think what Michael does obviously very, very, very quickly draft it up. Yeah. I'm saying that, you know, these big bear events down there. And then the top it said Rhino Challenge. You now know when it's around a challenge. This is well, yeah. You know what it is. You know it's a rung event because you know what? It's a challenge. And because all of my imagery that I use, I say, oh, the majority of that I use, I'm not using. So like the stock imagery you get, which like you say, the first one at the top of the list is always and skinny white many short shorts. You've got loads of images. I've got imagery of all sorts of all shapes and sizes and everything, and they'll be the ones that well up with your images, actually, because I've lost a bit of white recently, and it's the first photos of an abundant race ever where you've not absolutely seen my little paunch ever, ever. And I got the height issue and I was like, yes, bro. Heavily edited, heavily edited. I said, perfect, I take all these photos, but make sure that he's he's 26 hours in Photoshop if you can be. Yeah, I was what I was was for All Stars while I said but I can I can start, you know, with social media, you know, but you know, you know, but and I want you so short time span now. Yeah. We've got to grab attention quickly. And again, it's great because the people know of you will be able to see it and go, I know what it is. People that don't know you will have no idea what it is. Yeah. And I think that's the the only one they would just go down. Is that one there because he's got ten K. Yeah. So only one that shows actually what you what you got. That's it. And that's the it's sort of obvious what it is to a certain extent. Not the best picture to use for it, but it's obvious what it is. Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree. Okay. So crib sheet, you get crib sheet when you leave. Yeah. Of all the things to do, I'm glad we got off. I just, so changed the design slightly. And then I think you need to really tell people what six hour races I'd have that going out rails, doom stuff to camera. And also bear in mind, because once you said it, once you just repurpose and frame much time and go again. Yeah, you don't need to these rehash it all the clips that we do for these podcast, we use Post plan. I always forget the name of that and we put them into different buckets. We've got content going out now three times a day across most channels, and it's just repurposed content, okay. And it's we've just literally put them all back in the bucket and said, go across these channels and I think we've got to watch July. Yeah. So we don't touch you now. It's it just shuffles them up. So I make so I've got like a content. So I use Canva as well. And I've got content that I sort of repurpose because there's, so I can like so I'd like talk about marketing to people. And so I've got a marketing plan as to what I put out for each event. So each event, normally starts seven months out per post, out five months, three months, two months, five weeks, one month, two weeks, one week event. So I put pace out. But you can't I can't put pace out seven months time. So actually event now because no one cares. It's seven months away. So what I then do is I'll have a post about the new alcohol free beer that we give out at the end of each event, and I'll be like, oh, this is the beer we've got, by the way. You can get it when you come and run with this in September. That's what I think. So I'm sort of trying to drip feed in that. We've got events coming, but I've got sort of banks of content, so I've probably got 10 or 15 different things that I use on rotation and then drop in. There's things coming. So, but what I'm now going to now you've created me work. I'm going to go back through some of it and sort of reprocess sort of the imagery and things. So there is highlight image rather than being a lot of, I think your background, you're pinned as well on the top. If you pinned, yeah. Three things here and you had all races and it said you could swipe through and it's like the background, is this the one I shot? And then the next one is here. You see the races. Yeah. Because if I, if I come to this and just see that, then I might have to go all the way down here to find out what that is. So again, this is probably where I don't use social media and the internet like most people. And I don't know how often I look at anybody's. So I'll scroll through things and I'll search for things, but very rarely would I go on to a company. Yeah, I'll just see. But I guess I then do. So I'm just not really thinking about it. But I should definitely pin. What? What is it? Hey, Mary. And probably the podcast. Then there's the three things across the top. You can do the same in YouTube. You can do playlists of. Yeah, races. Is this because. Yeah, I think showing all your races in one, you know, again, carousel would look really good. You know. Yeah. This is Daventry right now. And again try and make it. You know, maybe you could do you could, you know, do a bird's eye view of it. I know, so you get it from Google Maps and just do it and show it. Okay? It just brings it to life a little bit more so people can go, okay, these are cool. These are all the races they do each year. Again, social proof is that you don't do one race. You do loads. Yeah. We've singlehandedly sorted out pretty much. But now like it's really I can see where the value is going to come in it and it's not you know, they it's not massive changes really because the stuff with the imagery I can change that pretty simply now that I know essentially how to brief the person that does my designs. And I can make that work, the doing more stuff to camera, I can I can do that as well. And I'm getting more comfortable with that, mainly because I have people that come to my events are nice and they've not altered. Your podcast talks slightly. You know, if they've spoken nicely and they've said nice things and the bit they're really struck with when you guys did one before Christmas and you're talking about your sort of listener numbers, and I've always thought, you know, you've got to have hundreds, thousands of people to make it worthwhile. And you say, well, you know, we've got, you know, a few handfuls and it's been worthwhile. Well, yeah, it generates well turn out I've got in a month on average for us it's like it's ridiculous when you look at it. Yeah I'm going to I would look at it go, it's an absolute failure and this is what I'm saying. But all you I've heard people on the start line, even mentioned she'll listen to your podcast. Yeah. That's what you want. Yeah. And that was and and I said to somebody I find, I find that all again just because of how I am just fine or really embarrassing. But what I really want is for like a million people to listen to it. But for me to never know that, because I just find it. Really? Yeah. I, you know, I don't want all these people to turn up. They've had it, but I don't I don't want to know the lesson, to just find it sort of embarrassing, talking to camera, but I, I don't, I don't massively mind doing it. And I've realized that I, tons, which I hope you edit all this out. Right. Or the, because I'm not I don't have the time to worry, but I sort of think that as long as you're not doing it against somebody, that is the perfect public speaker, so you don't have a direct comparison. I think I sort of get away with it a little bit. It was absolutely fine. Yeah, it was good. I liked I listened to off, I was really good. Yeah. So I've got the plan is to do that is after every event and then do one last event night because I had one I need to go and do so. I need to get some time where I can do it. So hopefully I'll do that tomorrow and then put that out. And then I'm going to record sort of like, when I've recorded one already, or I'm going to do it in quite work, but like an origin story because I, there's a lot of there's a handful of people that have been with me since 2018 and they've seen the progression. But there's a lot of people that I've never seen any of that, and they've got no idea. And it's a very interesting story. And it again creates some content. And then I can use that as essentially a static podcast episode to then refer back to when I start referring to, oh, you know what? I'm used to do that or whatever. Not too well. That's why we're doing right. So thousand years we can look back and go, you know, that's where we were. And hopefully touchwood, that's where we are now. Well, if this gets bigger, I say to Michael earlier, luckily or unluckily, I'm not big enough to not be able to respond to every single comment. So I make sure I respond to every comment because I only get a handful of them. I make sure respond to them, because why wouldn't you? I mean, I, I understand these companies that have got 100,000 responses, but to then not respond to them, it's it's criminal. It's yeah, yeah, yeah it is it's absolutely criminal. Yeah. But they don't. But but then when you I mean, what's even worse is when you see someone that's got three responses and they still don't respond to them because like, what's your excuse then. I don't honestly, I gave an example this morning on my LinkedIn live which was easy chat. And they didn't have tons and tons and tons, but some people ask some genuine questions. Yeah, no responses, but it looks awful. You know, if it's a race company advertising their race, they've got adverts that they're pumping out that pay money to put the advert out, and there are comments on there that are things like, oh, where's the parking? Or where are the genuine questions? Not, not sort of vile comments, but like genuine questions and they don't get responded to you then like, well, when I go and run that race, they're not they don't give a shit. The problem is, is that it's down to a resource, people just not having the resources to deal with that. But also from a paid media perspective, that and pay and dispute that neglect to that potential customers. Yeah. I it's so damaging and and the stats say that it's damaging yet. No one's no one's taking it seriously. It's it's a real it's a real. Well, I just don't I just I can't fathom at all. No, it's odd. But yeah, like I say, unfortunately, when you have three comments, you can respond to three comments. I don't really require quite. Yeah. No one dipole when you sell out to you Tambay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh I, I mean I as anybody in the space says you know we we'd never do it like it need to be a big podcast. I'd you wouldn't say. I mean, hey, if they once you get a YouTube Big Bear event, I I'll just be rolling up. I have my chauffeur drop me off, and, that's how it'll be. That's how it'll be. Okay, I guess. Well, the question we always end with is, what's the first thing you're going to do after this? So I'm going to work out what I want those front pages to look like on my, like event specific, posts. And then I'm going to brief the designer so then she can get to work. So we can then try and redo everything going forward and try and go back through some of the ones who we've already got that are coming up in a few months to try and make them better images. Perfect. Job here is done. Thank you. Paul. Thanks for coming on, sir. And, I'll see you in a few weeks. Yeah. James. Thank you.