Strength Coach Collective

Michael Bann: Why Human Connection Drives Coaching Success

• twobrainbusiness@gmail.com • Season 1 • Episode 23

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Content Warning: This episode contains a mention of suicide and discussions on mental health. Listener discretion is advised.

Any coach can write a program, but a good program alone isn’t enough to keep clients around long enough to get results.

In this episode of “Strength Coach Collective,” Michael Bann shares how he transitioned to scalable remote coaching by focusing on empathy, accountability and long-term client results.

He explains that coaching—whether in-person or remote—can succeed or fail based on human connection. According to Bann, hands-on experience is critical for learning communication, presence and problem solving before coaching online.

Michael also discusses how his personal experiences pushed him to adopt a more holistic coaching approach that integrates internal health factors such as recovery and stress.

Tune in to hear tips for improving retention, communication and trust from a coach whose clients stay for years without ever meeting him in person. 

Links

Strength Coach Collective

1:39 - AI & connection in coaching

14:28 - Mistakes going in person to remote

27:53 - Integrating internal health

36:19 - Coaching with empathy

49:49 - Learning by asking questions

SPEAKER_01:

this podcast episode contains a mention of suicide and discussions on mental health listener discretion is advised

SPEAKER_00:

What's up, guys? Welcome to the Strength Coach Collective podcast. Our mission is to help coaches expand their craft and grow their business. You can find us at strengthcoachcollective.com or join our free Facebook group at the Strength Coach Collective. Today's guest is a special friend and someone who truly embodies what it means to be a coach's coach. Michael Bann is an internationally respected strength and conditioning expert with over 20 years in the game and more than 100,000 individualized programs written. He holds a master's in kinesiology and is the founder of Bandwagon Ventures, where he integrates high-level performance training, psychological resilience, and functional medicine into a comprehensive coaching system. You might also know him as the creator of the OPEC CCP Assessment Protocol, or from his work with elite military operators, law enforcement professionals, and high-performing athletes across the globe. His background includes deep study in biomechanics, diagnostics, and functional health, making his perspective more Both unique and powerful, whether you're a coach, athlete, or someone in between, get ready to take some notes. This conversation is packed with wisdom from one of the most experienced mind in the field. Let's dive in. How you doing, brother?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm great, man. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate

SPEAKER_00:

it. I appreciate you taking the time to come on and talk to us. You know, you've been in the game for such a long time and worn so many hats as a coach, an educator, a mentor. When you look at where the industry is right now, what excites you most about where we're headed? I

SPEAKER_01:

think more and more people are actually going to start gravitating towards coaches that can emotionally connect with people, especially with AI. More and more people are going to be using AI. And I think AI, kind of like ChatGPT, for example, I think of it kind of like when the internet first came around. If you didn't know how to use it, you weren't going to be as successful. But at the end of the day, if you knew how to use it, you could really teach yourself a lot of stuff. I think AI is going to be good for something like that, but the input is only as good as the output. And so more and more people are not going to have the capacity to know what input to give the software. So they're going to probably use it to try and create good workouts or to try and create good nutrition plans. But they're eventually going to continually fall short because they don't have the expertise to put in the good input. Just like if you don't have the expertise to use Google and you don't know what to search for in Google, you're probably not going to get what you need out of it. So I think more and more people are going to go towards AI and then come out of it and be like, I'm not any better. I need to have a human being help me and connect with me. And that's where a human, like a coach that is emotionally intelligent, that can really connect and understand and empathize, that's going to be the wave of the future. And I'm really excited for that.

SPEAKER_00:

That's an interesting take because I've actually never heard that, but it makes a lot of sense. When you think about artificial intelligence and kind of what I heard you say is– without understanding how to not necessarily just prompt it, but prompt it from a background of understanding what you're looking for, it's just going to give you a mediocre output, which is going to lead to a mediocre outcome, which is going to push people back towards coaches who have emotional intelligence. And that's an interesting take. I've never... heard anyone mention that. And I couldn't agree more because at the end of the day, I mean, man, I worked with you remotely for over three years. And one of the things we had was it wasn't because I wasn't educated enough to write my own program. It was the relationship we had built and the trust that I had built in you. So speak to me a little bit more about that.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, what do you want to know? Because there's a whole host of stuff that goes into emotional connection and just connecting with humans in general, especially in a remote model. It's not the easiest thing in the world, but there's a ton that goes into that. So what do you want to know specifically?

SPEAKER_00:

So you've worked with people both in person and online. Talk to me a little bit about some of the similarities in building the emotional connection and some of the differences and how our viewers maybe can... could learn how to adapt depending on what model they're using.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So with remote coaching, it's not real time. So you have the luxury of like taking a second to take a breath when a client frustrates you. Because let's be honest, like clients are humans. Coaches are humans. We're going to get frustrated with clients just like clients will get frustrated with us. In an in-person model, when you're sitting down in my office or if we're at the squat rack, There's no like, hey, give me 24 hours, I'll get back to you. It's like, I'm a little annoyed with you right now. Right. So in in-person stuff, it requires, in some cases, a little bit more... of a detached emotional approach. Michael Singer talks about it in his book, The Untethered Soul. And so you can call it like detached. I call it the untethering. My dad, for years, he would always tell me to disengage and he meant the same thing. So it's basically learning to recognize that your feelings are fleeting, your happiness is fleeting, your sadness is fleeting, your anger is fleeting. But with real time, it's a little bit tougher to practice that. Whereas like with remote, it can be like, I'm pretty annoyed at that message. I'm going to wait until tomorrow to respond. And so you get the luxury of a little bit more freedom in that. But the downside to remote is it's harder to create a connection because you're reading hieroglyphics on an electronic screen. And so even if I say the most meaningful thing in the world, the most empathetic thing ever, how they, my clients, interpret that It's not up to me. It's up to their emotional state. So there's downsides and upsides to both. With the in-person stuff, I can make a joke and you'll probably know right away I'm joking, but I could say the exact same thing verbatim and you read it and you're like, you're a dick. So there's pros and cons to both. I think at the end of the day, if you're going to do the remote thing, you have to utilize video features. So I use Loom. My clients, they're very used to getting Loom videos from me. I've sent clients 20-minute Loom videos to explain everything and to help them understand where my brain's at to help them drive forward. Sometimes I send them 60-second clips, also GIFs or GIFs, however you want to argue it, G-I-F, right? Right, right, right. Like the one from The Hangover, like, but did you die? Like when clients will say things like, oh, that was so hard. I'll send them that. Like the little gif, did you die? Like small things like that that just add a little humor. Whereas in person, brother, a fist bump goes a long way. It's just like, hey, dude, that was a great set fist bump. In remote coaching, they may post a video of a perfect squat. It's a perfect squat. And they're looking at you like, give me some feedback. Like, what do I need to work on? If you were in person, I'd be like, hey, that was a great set. Do it again. Remote coaching wise, they may expect like me to correct something. And it's kind of like, I'm not going to correct anything that looked good. Do it again. So that's where like gifs and other things kind of come into play or like telling them, like literally making a video. Hey, great work. Like something like that. So you just have to learn how to be a little bit more human. And the problem is a lot of remote coaches. I don't think they've done enough in-person coaching. And that's where they fail. I think if I did my math right, I think I averaged or not averaged them. I had accumulated around 12,000 movement screens prior to ever doing remote coaching. But keep in mind, I've been doing this for many, many, many, many years. But before I even touched remote coaching, I had assessed over 12,000 movement screens. So I had collected data. I've seen what worked. I saw what didn't work. I troubleshot a lot of stuff. So when somebody struggled in remote coaching, I kind of already knew. I was like, hey, I've seen this like 10,000 times. I know what that is. I can come up with solutions, and then I can connect with the clients better. I think too many people, especially younger coaches, we want that remote lifestyle. We want that freedom to be digital nomads because I can write a program from Hawaii, Japan, Malaysia, Arizona. It doesn't matter. But then when clients who are human beings struggle, they don't know how to fix that struggle. They don't know how to connect with them on that level. And so that client eventually quits. And so I think, if anything, coaches should probably spend a minimum five years full time in person in the trenches, which no one wants to hear. No one wants to hear, hey, you don't have enough experience to be a very successful remote coach. Or they go the opposite and they just want to start selling templates and blogs and they want to create like a generalized approach and sell it for very cheap. But that also doesn't last because now you've created yourself as a commodity. And I think coaches that are in the remote world are cornering themselves if they don't have enough real world experience. And a commodity is easily tradable. 50 bucks. I don't get results. I go over here. 50 bucks over there. I'll get different results. What's 50 bucks? I can trade that. Relationships aren't commodities. I've had some clients remote client-wise that I have never met, like ever, that I've had for nine, 10 years. Never met them, but I still work with them to this day. And we talk almost daily. That's connection. And I think you can only do that if you've had some time in the trenches to really, dare I say, like F up big time. Like I have made so many mistakes in person. I've made so many mistakes in person. Right. I know how to not make those mistakes remotely.

SPEAKER_00:

I think something interesting that you touched on and it was unique in terms of something I've learned in like mentorship is hierarchy of like communication. Right. So there's like text and email lower level. Then there's like phone call. Then there's video call. And then there's in person. And something that I found unique about your service is that when you do a monthly check in, it's over Zoom. It's a video, face-to-face, so there is that connection building. But the main thing to drive home to the coaches here, if you're thinking about... building out some kind of remote coaching model with actual remote clients. We're not talking about people that you see every day in your gym that you might write program design for. We're talking about someone that you don't know that lives across the country. Your take is in order to build that emotional intelligence and be able to communicate with the human, you need to really go after perfecting your in-person craft first as that's going to prepare you to be more successful.

SPEAKER_01:

A hundred percent. You have to struggle immensely. I mean, being a coach, it's very entrepreneurial in that sense. I mean, there's a coach on every corner these days. It's an saturated market. So you can either look at yourself as a commodity and basically, you know, plummet to the bottom of the barrel and price points and try to offer a hundred dollars a month. I would be like 300 clients deep in hours. It's insane. So you can try that, but you have to have a service that's really good or you go the other way and you try to offer triple whatever you charge. So if I'm going to offer$355 a month, I want to offer pretty much$1,000 to$1,200 a month worth of services. But you can only do that if you spend a lot of time in the trenches, if you learn how to communicate, if you learn the science of communication and also develop the art of it. Program design, that's pretty easy. I mean, I will say that if you can't write a quality program in five minutes or less, you shouldn't be in remote coaching because you can't scale yourself. If you're spending 10 minutes on a program, that's just too much time. Unless you're going to charge$1,000 a month or something, you're just not going to be able to pay your bills. And so learning how to write a program fast is important. But the only way to do that is to be 100% positive that what you're writing will work if the client does the work. And I fire a program off and takes me about 90 to 120 seconds to write a program on average. Sometimes it takes a little bit longer, like three minutes, but I can write a program in three minutes, no slower than that. I know if it doesn't work, something outside of the gym is off and I can reach out to the client and we can have a conversation, but I don't have to spend a lot of time on program design because I've written a hundred thousand programs. I know what works and I know what doesn't. I have all the science to back it up. And like Thomas Edison, he didn't invent the light bulb. He invented 10,000 ways to not make a light bulb. I dare, I'm going to use the F bomb, but I fucked up so much in my career. I know how to not fuck up. So, and I still fuck up all the time, man. So it's one of those things I call failing forward, but you need to do that in person. If you want to eventually have a lucrative career in the remote world, because social media, it's like pulling teeth, man, getting clients to, want to give you$300 a month on Instagram, that's pulling teeth. It's hard. The way you do it is providing such an amazing service that your clients are walking billboards and anyone that sees them is like, I want what you have. What on earth are you doing? I got this guy. You should text them. And that's how I get, you know, the majority of my clients is through word of mouth, not Instagram.

SPEAKER_00:

So this was kind of like a separate question. I feel like you kind of answered it. So like in your experience with coaching online, what are the biggest mistakes you see when a coach transitions from in-person to remote? Would it be that they're just doing it too quickly so they don't have the skill set?

SPEAKER_01:

Sometimes a hundred percent. Yeah. So just like going back to the whole, if you don't have the understanding to give great input to get good output and I have a client of mine, for example, that was battling some hip stuff. And I knew just having done this for so many years, that hip thing was actually a neurodynamic issue that was stemming from excessive compression extension syndrome of the lumbar spine based on their training history. And I knew that I can't fix that remotely because I have to palpate them. I have to poke on them to help them develop intra-abdominal pressure. And I have to put them in positions for basically improving their neurodynamics. So I can't do that remotely, but I can kind of talk to them on Zoom and send them videos to give them ideas and concepts so they're kind of aware of it. But I knew how to search for someone in their zip code that knew that and could work on that remotely and then give me the notes. So basically, I told the client, hey, reach out to this person. This person will be able to help you get their charting notes, get those notes, send them to me. I can develop a program that tweaks and is tailored to that, and you'll feel better in 14 days. And so without that in-person stuff, you can't create that in a remote model. And so eventually you're just going to be beating your head against the wall because nothing you did works. So you got to have those failure points in person. And then the other thing too, if you're going from in-person to remote and you're trying to take your in-person personal training client and make them remote, that is a uphill fight that's tough because that person is not used to that model of training

SPEAKER_00:

right

SPEAKER_01:

so you have to make sure that when you work with people remotely that they are kind of lone wolves they they should not need you know the whole like well i want to go to like happy hour fitness you know they shouldn't need group fitness and individual design pick one and neither one is right or wrong it's just whatever you want but if somebody's like oh you know i really want to be able to do crossfit three times a week and just utilize you for like one or two workouts a week that's not going to work long term so you want to make sure that those clients that you transition to remote are totally fine not having you there loading their barbell telling you telling them what to lift right away they need to be aware that you're not going to give them instant feedback You know, they got to be aware that you're not going to read essays because I've had clients send me a 30-minute video to watch, like an update on YouTube. I'm not watching that. If you really need that from me, I'm going to charge you for 30 minutes of my time because that's not this business model of remote coaching. So you transition the right people. Would

SPEAKER_00:

you say that that has something to do with also setting the right expectations up front? I have like within I, you know, I have I've owned gyms for 15 plus years and I do have some remote coaching clients online, but I have a very specific niche that I work with. And I also I won't work with someone that doesn't have experience in the gym. Like, I'm not going to try to take a beginner through a program. remotely because I would want some in-person experience first before I put them into that program. So I think setting those expectations, talk to me a little bit about that and like maybe what more novice coaches should be thinking about in terms of creating those expectations with clients if they plan on transitioning them.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well, one, I'll be very blunt. I disagree with you a hundred percent. I have people in a remote model that have never stepped foot into a gym. who are almost senior citizens. And I've worked with them remotely, having never been with them in person. And I built them from, you know, goblet squat to heavy back squat to 220 pound deadlift. So one of my, I think of one woman right now, she is amazing. And I'm sure she's going to see this podcast at some point. She's wonderful. Her name is Sandy. I love her to death. Her husband and I have worked together for years and years and years. I ended up speaking at an event many years ago, pre-COVID. I met her there and him. And she ended up hiring me a couple years later or so. And I've worked with her for a long time. And she was not a fitness enthusiast, but she was like, you know, I kind of want to work out. I want to get better at this stuff. So, like, I'm going to hire you. I think we started with... I think 95-pound deadlifts, like nothing crazy heavy. She just deadlifted 100 kilos at 5'11", and like 150 pounds in her late 50s, early 60s. She is a perfect example of a great remote client, even with zero fitness experience. So the avatar that I work with is the person that is willing to acknowledge they don't know everything, and they're willing... to take an approach that's tailored to them they're willing to communicate with me and they're willing to say hey i feel like this isn't working or whatever they're willing to convey and there's been times where she's even said that she's like hey you know i'm not really feeling this right now it's like cool let's make some changes how does this look for you yeah i think i could do that well awesome let's try that out for a week see what happens but there's a willingness to acknowledge some vulnerabilities there there's a willingness to say i don't really know what i'm doing and i could use some guidance But could I do that if I hadn't built someone from scratch in person? Absolutely not. I've built thousands of people from scratch doing personal training and semi-personal training. And I've also had, this is where I think coaching CrossFit is actually kind of cool. I've had the pleasure of coaching CrossFit, you know, like rah, rah, go faster, like cheerleading level CrossFit coaching, not even real, like individualized coaching for CrossFit, but the classes. Right. You have to learn real fast how to fix someone's movement and move on to the next person. Because you got 25 people in the class. I can't spend minutes on this person. It's like, hey, do that real quick. Hey, when you do this, think of this. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Knowing that and developing that, it really honed your skills as a coach. And so with Sandy, she's killing it. I have another client, Di. She's also amazing. And we've only been together for, I think, four months, maybe five. She started... without any deadlifts and she when i eventually gave her a one max deadlift she could do like i think it was 105 pounds she just did five by five earlier this week at 125

SPEAKER_00:

and that's pretty crazy yeah

SPEAKER_01:

deadlifted every like she sub 100 pound deadlift five months in now she's you know she's doing a one-on-one today i'll get the results back later she's probably gonna pull 165 In less than six months. And she's very petite. Like, she's not a very big person by any means. And she has an ACL injury history, all sorts of other issues. The key thing is she's willing to admit, like, hey, I need help. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm going to tell you how things feel. I'm going to video stuff for you. And it's a willingness to be like, I'm going to be vulnerable. I'm going to lean on the coach and I'm going to trust the coach. That's the avatar. She doesn't need her girlfriends to be right next to her to cheer her on. So... You don't have to have athletes with high levels of experience to coach remotely, but you have to be patient and understand how to start someone. That's really tough for a lot of coaches.

SPEAKER_00:

So two things. One, I agree with you on that point 100%. I just said my particular niche, I won't do that. Maybe I'm not as patient as you. Second question to that, and this is actually interesting because this was like a side tangent, but in person... If I'm having somebody come into the gym, we will meet face to face before they sign up. And I can get a sense right away if they're not a good fit for us and we're not a good fit for them. And I will be like, hey, we're not going to be a good fit for you. And politely, I don't think you should join. You're not a good fit for us. How would one be able to, like in your example, like you're pretty much willing to work with anyone that's open to communication and learning and doesn't know everything. How do you have that skill set if you're not communicating on such a personal level right from the jump?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, to even start with me, you have to talk to me for an hour on Zoom. Oh, go ahead. So that's the first step. And, you know, I always, I fall back on, at a client years ago, absolutely wonderful human being. Every now and then I still talk to her on Instagram. Her name is Dr. Clue. She's a PhD. She's brilliant. And her whole thing was like on like more or less motivation. She's an adaptive athlete and she's a stud. She would always say, honor the ask, right? And I always like to credit her for that because it really opened my eyes to when somebody comes to me and they sit down on Zoom for an hour, something in them, whether they're conscious or not of it, something in them is saying, oh, I'm struggling and I need help. So they're in some way, shape or form being vulnerable. They may not be 100% vulnerable, but they're being a little vulnerable. You want to honor that. They're asking for help. So honor the ask. So when somebody comes to me and they sit down and I talk to them, first thing I want to do is just, I just want to get to know them. I want to connect with them. I want to understand them as a human being. I don't want to talk about fitness right away. Like we can talk about it, right? It's like, Hey, you know, like what, what, what experience do you have with fitness? Whatever. I'm going to figure that out through fitness testing. I'm going to give you goblet squats and back squats and front squats and lunges and deadlifts and all that. I'm going to see that. I'm going to see what your numbers are. If you're 150 pounds and your back squat comes back at 350, you're good. I know you don't need me like for like, Here's our back squat. You don't need that. So I'll figure that out in the program and the results. I want to understand who you are as a human. I want to understand why you're coming to me. And I want to understand how I can add value to your life. And that's really where I think coaches, they see themselves maybe as program designers. And that's kind of what we do. But if you think about it, two to three minutes a week. And I'm a client for program design. The rest of it is trying to communicate and continue having connections and communication and continually trying to figure out how I can continue to add value to their life. So I want to understand those things first and foremost. We can talk about back squats and front squats all day long after that. So if you come to me and I've only turned away a few people in my day where I could tell they weren't going to take accountability and I could tell that they were looking for a scapegoat. They were looking to be able to blame someone else. I've had clients show up at my door, my door, my Zoom door, and they immediately were blaming the lack of results from another coach. Like, well, you know, this coach did that and this and this and this, and I just didn't feel like I got great results and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay, what'd that coach do? That was great. And they didn't really have much of an answer. So I was like, you know, I don't think we're going to be a good fit because I require my clients to take a hundred percent ownership of their failures and their successes. So I don't think we're going to be a good fit because I don't hear you taking ownership of where you went wrong. And that was kind of a shock to them. They were like, I was like, I don't want that hassle. Like that's right. Like if you, why would you go to a therapist, which is more and more common, but people go to therapy and like, I'm working on myself. No, you're not. You're just paying$200 an hour. To listen to somebody tell you what you need to do and then you don't go and do it. You don't read the books. You don't do the work. You don't do the journaling. You don't do any of the homework. You're not working on yourself. You're just paying somebody money so you can complain to. And that's toxic. So I kind of weed that out. But for the most part, if people are willing to just admit like, I don't know what I'm doing and I need help. I'm stumped. that alone sets the stage for like cool well what have you done yeah okay that didn't work so let's not do that like clearly that's not the answer because it didn't work we can already take that off the table let's try something else and as a coach you have to be vulnerable and willing to say listen i'm not infallible i've been wrong more than i've been right i'll probably screw this up so when i do call me up on it i'm more than happy to be criticized Be nice about it. Don't call me names. But if I go up on something, I'm totally open to it. Let's work together on this. And I come back to always saying this is a collaborative effort. I'm here to guide. I'm here to be a mirror. I'm not here to take ownership of your behavior. If you're successful, it's your fault. I showed you the door. You walked through it, though. You also can choose to not walk through it. So I like to say you can lead a horse to water and you can even drown the horse, but you can never make a drink. And so as long as coaches take that approach in person or remote, I think they'll be fine. And then it comes down to spotting senses, man. It just comes down to being like, yeah, my gut told me that wasn't a good client for me. And I still took them on next time. I get that feeling. I'm going to turn them away.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. So, you are known for integrating lab work and internal health into your coaching. How did you get into that world and what made you realize that it was needed to be part of the coaching process? Was this something from the beginning or did you start coaching? You're like, Hey, I need to take this a little bit further. So

SPEAKER_01:

it really came from like a need. I got kind of I think that's a good way to word it. So for those that don't know, I have Asperger's and my brain works in a unique way. And it's always trying to figure something out. It's always trying to solve puzzles. And I didn't actually know this until I got my diagnosis in my early 30s, so about 10 years ago. So I would get so confused by things that it would... it just wouldn't make sense to me and I have to figure it out. So I would go read textbooks and I would go read literature or scientific literature and I would just absorb it. And I, my gift is in pattern recognition. I'm really, really good at it. And I would like when I did those 12,000 movement screens, I was told by the FMS world that if you can't get a 14 with no asymmetries, like you're blah, blah, blah, dysfunctional and the FMS can do this and that. So I started screening CrossFitters and I was like, oh yeah, you shouldn't be doing these movements. But then I would see them do these movements and I would see people fail, but get better in CrossFit, but they'd fail a movement screen. They would get out of pain, stronger, healthier, better body composition, better out of pain, but they fail a movement screen that they're not supposed to fail. Right. And then I saw people like me. I had a 21. I was a perfect score on the FMS, no asymmetries, but I would get hurt really easily. And I was super confused about that. I was like, what is going on? And it would rattle my brain. I'd lose sleep over it. And so I dug deep. And the first thing that I started to look at was like, okay, well, like gut health, because somebody at one point, I brought up the whole idea of core strength and back pain. and a mentor of mine many, many, many years ago when I brought that up. I was like, well, we know if we do these core exercises, half kneeling, cable chops, and all this great, goofy stuff that people get out of back pain. We know that Paul Hodge's research on the transverse abdominus and low back pain and blah, blah, blah. And they kind of cut me off. And they were like, yeah, that's true. The research does say that. Did you ever think that when somebody does core exercises, they stop eating shitty foods like donuts and they get less inflamed and that's why the back pain got better? And I was like, Like mind blown. I was like, that's a good point. Like how many low back pain biomechanical studies control for nutrition? I give you ab work. You stop eating donuts and you eat broccoli and all of a sudden you're less inflamed and all of a sudden you have less pain. So I went down this deep rabbit hole of gut health. And then I started like digging into all the literature. I was going to medical conferences. I was studying this obviously in grad school and all that. And it only just ended up leading to more stuff. Cause I was like, wait a second. Okay. So gut health also impacts X, Y, Z. Well, through a roundabout way that also impacts this. Oh my gosh. Gut health impacts hormones. Hormones impact pain. Oh, pain is biopsychosocial. And then I just went down this deep autistic rabbit hole, honestly. And it's like, we laugh at that, but I mean, that's literally what I did. Yeah. I, I read a textbook in two weeks, literally front to back, like straight up just. And so I, my brain is a little different and I'll admit that, but that's kind of how I got into it. And it came from just my clients were struggling. I was struggling. And then I was like, I needed to find the answer because if I don't, the client's going to like, go somewhere else. And so I just dug in and then Greg Rose, he's a doctor of chiropractic medicine. He created the TPI screen and he was part of the SMA crowd and the FMS crowd. Greg wouldn't remember me Apple from Adam. Cause I'm just one dude that he's interacted with over the years. But at a conference I asked him, I was like, what do I do? Like, who do I refer to? And he was like, if you refer out everyone, you're going to lose all your business. Stop referring out, like learn to do shit on your own. Like, yeah, someone out there is going to frown at you for it. Some chiropractor or some physical therapist is going to frown at you for, you know, you practicing DNS on people. Some naturopathic doctor is going to frown on you for looking at blood work. But figure it out. Like, you need to figure that out so you don't send all your business away to other people. So I did. I started looking deep and I was like, well, I can read the same damn textbook a doctor reads. I can watch the exact same lectures. It's the internet. It's all free. So I just... I joke about it semi facetiously, but I autistically nerded out and I was going to all these different medical conferences, taking all the notes on literature, like on the scientific literature. And then I got mentored by some brilliant doctors on how I can apply it. And also how, when I could like, when I need to send it away, be like, okay, that that's something serious that you got to go see this person. And so I kind of cultivated that integrated holistic whole systems approach and And then I got deep into psychoneuroimmunology, mainly because I was in therapy a lot. When I got the diagnosis, it was very depressing. At first it made sense. I was like, oh, that's why I was bullied a lot growing up because I'm a little weird like that. And this makes sense. And then I went down this rabbit hole of like, I'm fucked. I have like high functioning autism. I'm definitely wired differently and I don't really belong in society and I'm I'm fucked. Like, I should just kill myself. And I went into therapy hard. Like, even thinking about it now makes me want to cry because it was so painful. But then I started to, like, recognize in that world how powerful the mind is for everything. Your adaptations to fitness and your joint pain and your hormones. And I saw my hormones get better just by going through therapy and learning to relinquish some of the things that I had been traumatized through just... with my childhood, being an undiagnosed person, having to mask all the time. And so then I got really into the Brene Brown world, where we talk about shame and vulnerability and empathy. And I went deep down the codependency world, Pia Melati and Melody Beatty, all those experts in that world. And then I started to apply that to my coaching and my communication. So it really came from a need for myself because I struggled with injuries and I struggled with pain and hormones and gut health stuff. And I ended up just seeing the parallels from my clients. And then that's kind of how it all came about. I don't know if that makes sense. Hopefully it does.

SPEAKER_00:

It does. And I mean, one of the things I heard you say is a lot of your own personal experiences shaped the kind of coach you wanted to become and the coach you became, the information that you sought after. Yeah. Would you say that that in some cases can be like a superpower for coaches to be able to use something like that as motivation to be able to dig into more information for their clients to be a better coach and provide a better outcome or result for them?

SPEAKER_01:

Do you mean... The autism being a...

SPEAKER_00:

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So personal experience. Say you have a coach, for example, that was at one point in time, 100 pounds overweight. And then they went through that whole emotional depression and stress of that. They learned how to take the weight off naturally. They lost the weight. They kept it off. They got the body of their dreams and they took from that experience. Because I'll give you an example. I consider myself a pretty good coach, but something I've gotten feedback wise from people is like, Hey, you've never struggled being 50 plus pounds overweight. So you have no idea what it feels like for me. And you can't empathize with that. Right. So I guess from that perspective, do you, do you think that coaches can use, I guess for lack of a better term, shortcomings in their past to be able to, help them to put forth a better product for clients?

SPEAKER_01:

A hundred thousand fucking percent. So, you know, like I can give a good example of that. Like I've never been a mother, obviously, but I can empathize with how hard it is. That doesn't mean that I understand authentically. There's a difference between empathy and authentic understandings. So when I've worked with women who have three children and the husband is the one that works all day and the mom stays home and takes care of the household, you know, like traditional nuclear family style, I don't authentically understand that. But I can absolutely sit there and say, hey, Sally Sue, I can see how much you wrestle with this. And it makes sense to me why it's really hard for you to even hydrate sometimes. You have a lot on your plate. How can I show up? and make sure that I give you the best possible resources and support so you can accomplish your goals. I see, I see your struggle. I see your wrestling with it. I do. I know I can't walk in your shoes and I can't solve your problems, but I want to be there for you. And I'm in your corner and you're not alone in this struggle. And that right there, that's empathy. That's, that's something that I really wish I would have had, especially being a younger man that knows on the spectrum and, really struggled i wish people would have saw how hard it was for me but you know at the end of the day no one's going to understand how hard it was and i don't expect them to and i don't think anyone else like if you hire a coach and you're 75 pounds overweight i had a client for example he's 200 kilograms he's a he's a he was a great guy if he expected me to understand what it's like to be 200 kilograms he would have been out of his mind That's not posted. So if a client hires you, I'm like, you've never been 50 pounds overweight. You don't know what it's like. It's like, you're right. I don't. Tell me, help me understand what it's like. I want to understand. Sit with me and let me hear you. Let me see you. Let me understand your struggles. Maybe I can offer something, but I can't offer anything if I don't know what you're struggling with.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

That's empathy. Empathy, though, coaches, this is where coaches struggle. And it is really tough if you're a new coach because you kind of have to just put up with whatever because you got bills to pay. But at the end of the day, empathy is not tolerance. Empathy is always unconditional. I will unconditionally empathize with anyone. I will understand or at least attempt to understand where you're coming from. But I will not tolerate unconditionally anything. I can absolutely like, I'll make fun of anything, man. Like I have a goofy sense of humor, but I can absolutely try to understand where somebody is coming from. Even if I don't have their beliefs, if I don't have their upbringing, I'm going to try and understand them. But I'm going to tolerate certain behaviors from clients. If you come to me and you're like, well, you just don't understand. I'm 50 pounds overweight. I don't, I can't do this, blah, blah, blah. It's like, okay, like, can you go for a walk? And if there's this nonstop excuses why they can't do something, I can understand why they might struggle to want to go do something, but I'm not going to sit there and just, you know, tolerate certain things. I'm going to call people out and I'm not in a loving way. I'm going to call them up is what I like to say, but unconditional, you know, empathy, empathy should be unconditional, but it doesn't mean we tolerate it. Like I can understand why somebody might be, you know, an asshole. I can understand it. Right. You're an asshole. Like you're having a really bad day. I get it. Like your, your wife left you, your house got four poles on and you stubbed your toe. I can understand why you're calling me a motherfucker right now, but guess what? I'm not going to allow you to call me a motherfucker. You need to kind of stop or I'm going to not let you be in my life. So I think empathy comes from struggle. I think that's where we, as coaches can really lean on our own struggles and develop that empathy and, and, The Japanese in Bushido, one of their Bushido tenets was compassion. And they would say, Jin, J-I-N, they would say that the warrior, which I kind of also translate to just like the masterful coach, but the warrior knows they're not like most people. They have a special training and a special gift that goes beyond what most people can comprehend or get. But they also have a moral compass and they know they have to use their powers for good. And so they will seek out and help people when the opportunity presents itself. But at the same time, if an opportunity does not present itself, they go out of their way to find one. And I think that compassion thing, I think that applies to coaching because it's like, I'm going to have this knowledge of like my own suffering. I've struggled and suffered so hard to get to where I'm at. And others haven't struggled like me. I don't expect them to understand it. But because of my own suffering, I'm going to look at my growths from that. And I'm going to remember at one point I was way down there and now I'm way up here. My client can be way down there. And I know that if I could get way up here, they can get way up there. So I'm going to look at my struggle. This is what I've struggled with. And I'll share my struggles with my clients. I cried on calls. I told you a year or so ago, I kind of disappeared off Instagram for a long time. I

SPEAKER_00:

was

SPEAKER_01:

like, dude, I'm struggling so bad right now. I'm in therapy four times a week right now. I'm an inch away from just ending it all. And sharing all my struggles with my clients, it also lets them know, Oh, yeah, he's human because sometimes clients hire us because they aspire to be like us, man. And when they see that you have your own struggles, it gives them kind of a permission to be like, yeah, you know, coach, I'm actually really struggling right now. This is pretty tough. And I can think of one client right now. I won't say his name out of respect for privacy, but I've worked with him for I've known him for like 11 years. I let him live in my apartment for a while. because he was struggling to find a place and he was in a really weird situation. So I let him live in my apartment and I went and lived with my girlfriend for a little bit. He struggled immensely and I've watched him grow into a phenomenal young man. And young, he's like in his 30s now. But I've seen him go through so many trials and tribulations and I could not be more proud of him. But if I hadn't struggled... I don't think I would have seen his potential. And he's not even close to his potential yet. I mean, he's got infinite growth, but he commissioned into the army. He's about to get out of the army. He is a really good dude. And I couldn't be more proud of him for everything he's accomplished, even though of all of the struggles. So your struggles, you know, I've shared with him some of the things I've gone through. In a way, it gives him permission to share with me to be like, yeah, you know, Michael, I'm really hurting right now, man. It's like, dude, let me hear it. Tell me what's up, brother. Like, we got to be there for each other. And that's where I think coaches, if you really want to have a sustainable career, you need to learn that and really understand it because that's what drives the results. The program design doesn't drive shit. What's between the ears controls everything below the ears. You got to be able to connect with your people to really understand them. And I still struggle with that, man. I still have a hard time connecting with people. My autism, I'm wired in a way that I'm good at science, good at math. Learning how to communicate and learning emotions took tens of thousands of dollars in therapy. It was hard. It was really hard. And I still struggle with it. So if coaches really begin to understand that, I think the whole industry will get better. And I think when people... go to AI and they don't get the results they really seek. And then they find that emotionally intelligent coach. They're going to be like, Oh, where have you been my entire life? And that's how you get referrals. And that's how you build a business. It's people helping people.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I, you know, that's one thing I've always appreciated about you and working with you is how deep you go. Not, not just like you said, like you did the program design process. you can get a good program design from any, anybody. It really is kind of like the connection and the understanding of, of the why and all of the things. So I, I couldn't agree with you more. And, you know, I know because I know you, I know you've worked with high level athletes and operators and also everyday people. How do you, How do you adjust your coaching lens if you're working with different populations? And more specifically, is there anything that's just 100% consistent across the board?

SPEAKER_01:

Have you ever seen the movie Split?

SPEAKER_00:

I haven't, I don't, no, I have not.

SPEAKER_01:

I think it's James McAvoy. I don't remember his name, the actor. He plays a character that has like multiple personalities and he's like, that wasn't me, that was Patricia. I joke, but that's kind of like what coaching is when you hop from Zoom call to Zoom call. Like I'll work like with one dude, for example, I'll have a guy, he's a tier one operator, Delta Force, right? Seal team six, dev group. And then I'll go immediately to a grandmother of like 12. And it's just like, I gotta be like this, this, this, hey man, This is what we're focused on. This is what's next. I need you to do this. I need you to do that. I need to get this information from you. And then immediately afterwards, it's kind of like, how are you making it? So there's like a split personality kind of thing. And I think anyone that coaches multiple people throughout a day knows that that's kind of what happens. And I'm sure therapists go through it. Like if you're a psychologist and you have multiple clients, like you just know, this is how I have to be with this person. This is the relationship. So I can go from, older brother figure like with that one client i just talked about to me i look at him like a little brother i love the guy to death he's a really good dude and then i have clients that are 40 years older than me i look at them like they're my mom and dad or grandpa and they're mentors to me right oh it's a split personality thing but what you can think of it like is you can kind of think of it like you are using binoculars and the view never changes right I'm looking into the woods, but I'm going to zoom in on this spot. Okay, now I'm going to zoom out and I'm going to zoom in on this spot. The principles don't ever change. The principles transcend paradigms. Communication and communication and communication. Consistency with that is what really wins the day. And The program design, I mean, principles are principles. They transcend paradigms. What I do with my Delta Force guys versus what I do with my Green Berets versus my Seals versus my Grandma Sally Sue, it's all the same. A goblet squat is a back squat is a front squat is a hand clean. I apply it in different ways for the person, but I still apply it. it's the communication thing and understanding how to connect and communicate and knowing those things that really matters. And I think I have a client of mine. I can't say his name out of respect for their privacy, but they work in the intelligence world. And I asked them once a long time. I was like, how do you, how do you build assets with people? How do you like turn somebody on asset? Summed it up. It was like taking interest in their interests. You do that. Boom, done. So I think that's probably the commonality. And you have to do it with a moral compass. Whereas like you could do it with an immoral compass, but I take an interest in people's interests and I genuinely am interested in people. And that's what I kind of try to do with every single client. It's hard, but I try and I fail sometimes I do, but I think that's how you go from different client to different client. Cause really the principles are all the same, man. It's look at what they need to do, break that down into its patterns. You need to do a, And an 18-mile ruck march, you need to do a 12-mile ruck march. Okay, what is a ruck? Backpack that's really heavy, spinal stiffness, knee flexion, foot toughness, cardiovascular endurance. Cool. Awesome. How do we break that down? Back squats, rear foot elevated split squats, lunges, aerobic zone two, tons of it. You're good to go. It's really not that hard. It's breaking down the patterns and the parts, just like a back squat. Ankle mobility, hip flexion, core stability, all those different things, isolating it in the program, training it, retesting it in six weeks, you're good. It's really the consistency is going to be, or the commonality is really going to be like the human element. I'm always the same person and I try to connect and take interest in their interests at all times.

SPEAKER_00:

That's I mean, that's very interesting. And I think that a lot of people, they get very just wrapped up and they get caught in just the program design. They don't they don't they're not thinking of all these other factors like coaches get caught up in sets and reps and periodization, but they they neglect that. recovery, stress, internal health. So if you were coaching a coach, how do you help coaches zoom out and take this systems or principles thinking approach that you have for someone who is just, I'm the best programmer, I'm the best programmer, that they're so wrapped up in that? How do you teach them this?

SPEAKER_01:

So if I'm coaching a coach, I'm assuming... they're working with me because they already acknowledge they don't know enough and they need to understand more. And they're probably struggling with something. So I'm making that assumption right now. They're not coming to me and I already know everything, which some people do have the mentality and they still hire mentors. But I'm making the assumption that they're really looking to learn. So what I typically always remember are these three words. Could it be. Those three words. So I'll ask them, could it be X, Y, Z? And let them contemplate. The highest form of mastery isn't teaching. I'm sorry, the highest form of mentorship is not teaching. The highest form of mentorship is asking questions. A lot of coach mentors out there, I know plenty of coaches that mentor other coaches, and they honestly don't ask enough questions. They just teach, they lecture. The things that taught me the most when I was in undergrad and in grad school, it wasn't the lectures of just being told things. It was the questions that drove my curiosity. So like that one person that was like, could it be that they just stopped eating donuts and that's why their back pain got better? My mind blown. Like, look what that did to my career. That one question, that one interaction changed my life. So I work with my mentors because I have a Patreon and I mentor people on that. I have clients that hire me for one-on-one mentorship. My thing that I try to do is I try to ask them questions that make them stumped because it's the process of problem solving that really gets the learning. It's not the destination itself. The problem solved, the solution isn't what teaches. It's the problem solving process that gets them to learn and grow. So when I work for my coaches, I'm always asking questions and I'm trying to find the perfect question, even for myself. I'm always in search of the perfect question and I'll probably never have it. I'm probably going to die without ever accomplishing that mission, but I'm going to seek out the perfect question and uh in hopes that the next generation can begin to try and answer it and get a little bit better so that's how i handle all my mentorship stuff i want to create a level of controlled confusion that facilitates growth because we grow only at the optimal balance of challenge and support so if i ask you a crazy question on quantum mechanics you're probably not going to grow. And then if I ask you like, what is two plus two? You're also not going to grow. I have to ask you the right balance question. And so that's how I approach all my mentorships.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, one of the things you spoke about and like how I was trained to mentor other gym owners is that, and this is still really hard for me, but you should really be listening 70 to 80% of the time. And it's very easy for us to jump in and wanna talk and give the solutions. You're talking about asking good questions, but you can only really ask good questions if you're listening and learning about what the person needs. So I think that's a really important, one of the most important things that you've mentioned today for coaches is like, if you're building true connections with people, you need to listen to what the people are telling you so that you can build that connection and that relationship. And then, like you said, maybe you could, maybe somebody can ask that one question that changes the course of, you know, you could change the course of somebody's life.

SPEAKER_01:

You really can. You can save a life. You can absolutely, like one of my therapists a while back just straight up said, why are you not worthy of this? And like, they wanted me to answer. And I was like, And I was like really trying to answer that. And it completely shifted my mind and like, motherfucker, I am worthy of this. And it was almost like, Fuck you for asking me that question, proving me wrong by asking me a question. You never said you're worthy. You said, why are you not worthy? And it completely derailed my thought process and it rewired my subconscious because now the subconscious only works through imagery and repetition and emotion. It doesn't understand words. You're not worthy of this or you are worthy of this. It doesn't understand that. But when you begin to imagine, have imagery, emotions, et cetera, and it's repetitive, you can rewire the subconscious. So questions tend to change perspectives more than just telling. I mean, think about it. We are so divided in this country right now. The left is telling the right they're wrong. The right is telling the left they're wrong. Nobody is going, hey, could it be? And then being willing to investigate that. Because I... I think if more and more people did that in general, not to be on like a soapbox, but I think if people just adopted that, we'd all kind of realize we have a lot more in common with each other than we thought. It's like that Chris LeDoux song, Cowboy's Hat. If you listen to it, it's an old, old country song. It sums it up so well. And I think people should listen to that song. It's an absolutely brilliant song. It paints such a beautiful picture. But I think if more and more coaches just took that lens of like, what could it be? And if clients were to acknowledge that, Yeah, maybe it could be that. Let's figure that out. I think that's where when you get that kind of collaborative effort, oh, it's beautiful, man. The growth potential, it's infinite potential for growth. It's absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_00:

So for the coach listening to this who wants to level up, whether that's their coaching skill, retaining clients, growing their business, if you had to sum it up to one thing, what's one thing that they could start doing today that you believe will compound over time for their careers?

SPEAKER_01:

Understand that nobody is smart enough to be wrong 100% of the time.

SPEAKER_00:

Understand that no one is smart enough to be wrong 100% of the time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Read Ken Wilber's work, The Theory of Everything. I think that's the book, Theory of Everything. Yeah, read that book. And like, Godspeed, good luck. It's not the fastest read in the world. It's not a Dr. Seuss book by any means, but understand that. And if you can really embody that and recognize that everything has a partial truth, partial truth, not full truth, that allows us to kind of come into every scenario with the mentality of like, I'm probably not right here. I'm probably not 100% right. I'm probably not 100% wrong either. where could i where could i evolve this right that applies to like your churn your your communication style your program design approach everything like could i be wrong maybe understand that science is a process science tells us this is what we know today but we also don't know what we don't know and so you change and i If I had to like recap it all, it came back down to, I had a very high level theory of knowledge course when I was in school. My professor was a PhD in physics and he had a JD. So he had a law degree and a PhD in physics. The guy was a brilliant human being. And he asked the class, he was like, what do we know to be true? And everyone would say something. Oh, I know about this. He would argue it instantly and prove them that they don't actually know it. I thought I was going to be a smart ass. And I was like, I got this guy. And I went, gravity. He was like, tell me more. I was like, what goes up must come down. And he proved me wrong so fucking fast. I was like, oh, shit. Actually, you're right. I don't know that gravity exists. And the way he did is he, I didn't know he had a PhD in physics, but he instantly like went down this giant rabbit hole of like what gravity is, all the different equations. And I was like, okay, bro, this is Matt Damon Goodwill hunting level math on this whiteboard. I was like, that's too much for me. And then he started explaining gravity on the other side of the universe and went down this deep rabbit hole. And it made me realize that like, I've never been to the other side of the universe. No one has. We actually don't know how physics works on the other side of the universe. We have concepts and theories, but we acknowledge we may be wrong. So I take that approach to everything. I really try to take that approach of like, could it be? Could I be wrong? Maybe? Is it possible? And if I am, fucking awesome, because I just grew and I learned. I made a mistake. I failed, but I failed forward. Right. Every time I'm wrong, I, it's like when I get tapped out, you know, dude, you and I are both jujitsu guys, you know, like if I get submitted, if I, if my coach takes my back and he somehow gets my neck and he chokes me out. Cool. I was wrong. I fucked up. Won't do that one again. And that's growth. That's how you become a black belt. You learn a bajillion ways to not be a white belt.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Right. Right. Rapid fire round, man. What is your all-time favorite book?

SPEAKER_01:

The Hagakure.

SPEAKER_00:

What's that?

SPEAKER_01:

The Hagakure.

SPEAKER_00:

The Hagakure?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, H-A-G-A-K-U-R-E. Hagakure. What is that? It's a book by Yamamoto Sunitomo. Think of it like a collection of conversations that was recorded of essentially a... Actually, I'll take that back. That second favorite book, but he was a samurai warrior. Favorite book is Dekodo, which is also Japanese. Dekodo means the path of aloneness or the way of walking alone. And that book helped me tremendously since I was about 15, because I always wondered why I was a broken human being. And I was always feeling so alone. And it was 21 concepts written by Miyamoto Musashi, pretty much on his deathbed. And those concepts have guided my life since I read them when I was 15. And that's probably my favorite book. And I read them still to this day. And it's kind of like the Bible. I'm not religious, but a lot of people read the Bible. When you're 15, it means something different than 39 or 40. That's the Dakota, the path of walking alone or the path of aloneness, the way of being alone.

SPEAKER_00:

And now, what's your favorite meal?

SPEAKER_01:

Ramen, probably my favorite meal I've ever had. Ramen. It was by a ramen chef, master chef in Japan. So I grew up Japanese. My first words were Japanese. So ramen was probably my favorite meal I've ever had. Sushi is probably like my go-to these days. Although I'm not gonna lie, man. I had this amazing Colombian girlfriend. She is the most beautiful thing ever. And she is the sweetest woman. I couldn't ask for a better partner. And I've quickly fallen in love with Arepas. So I might be moving into the Colombian world, man. She's the most amazing cook. Like I can't believe how blessed I am to have her cook for me. And Arepas and the Colombian food, like just the stuff she makes me. Oh, dude, it's heaven. It's heaven on earth. I would go to war for it.

SPEAKER_00:

I thought you were going to tell me your favorite meal was an air fried steak.

SPEAKER_01:

Fuck off. It used to be so much crap for that man, but it's so convenient.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. If you're not injured, cause I know you, we were talking before you got on, you'd hurt yourself in jujitsu. What is your current training split?

SPEAKER_01:

So I'll hit the gym three days a week. I'll hit jujitsu minimum three days a week. I'm also a competitive shooter. So I'm usually at the range six days a week. Pistol and rifle. Maybe one day I'll get more into shotgun. I have a couple of shotguns. I'm pretty good at them, but I don't compete with them. But really, like my current split is nothing because my knee is blown out. But usually it's, you know, gym, jujitsu, and then the range. And

SPEAKER_00:

what kind of movements are you doing in the gym?

SPEAKER_01:

Old school, just like Arnold bodybuilding days, like back day, leg day, chest day, chest day, maybe like two or three times a week sometimes.

UNKNOWN:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Listen, if we can do small off or back squats, why can't I do small off or bench press? Like, fuck off. It's the best. So, you know, like just movement pattern based. It really comes down to how I'm feeling that day. Like if I get after it on the mats, I'm not going to go back squat 200 kilos. I'm probably going to do like lunges or leg press or leg extensions. So it is a little bit more in terms of intuitive. But I also don't have absolute strength goals. I can tell you that I gravitate more towards a lactic aerobic work. So things that are like strong man, cardio, and then also machines, a lot of open kinetic chain exercises, especially for being a martial artist. That's really important. So yeah, It's pull downs versus pull ups. No wide grip cable row versus ring row or inverted row. Leg extensions and leg press over back squats. Because that's less fatiguing on your CNS, but it still trains your joints and ligaments and tendons. And you can still be jacked as shit. So it's like, I don't have to be as tired, but I can feel real jacked. I can look great naked and I can still show up and be a really violent human being.

SPEAKER_00:

Brother, we did an hour 15 and it feels like we were talking for 10 minutes. I could continue talking to you for hours. Where can our coaches find you on social?

SPEAKER_01:

So they can find me on social media through Instagram. My handle is coach underscore Michael underscore band. They can email me at coach at bandwagon fitness. So like my nickname is bandwagon fitness. old client of mine like 11 years ago came up with that nickname. His name is Cord. He's a really cool dude. I think he sells motorcycles now in Georgia. So if you're in Georgia and you want a motorcycle, go to him. I don't know why I know that, but I think that's true. But yeah, so he came up with bandwagon. So my email is bandwagonfitness. So coach at bandwagonfitness.com. Coach underscore Michael underscore Ben is my Instagram handle. And also Patreon. I have a Patreon. Shameless plug. It's like six bucks a month. I have, I think, 40 to 50 hours of recorded video educational content. No fluff. I don't edit stuff. It's just me in this room. I don't do any of that crazy editing. It's like instantly applicable things. Lots of PDF handouts on like, this is how you read blood work. This is how you communicate with the client. This is how you write a program, stuff like that. Like lots of PDF handouts on there. I'm constantly posting stuff. I, I, I try to post at least three to four times a week. So that's another way they can reach me. And that's patreon.com slash bandwagonfitness. And it's like six bucks a month. And I'm looking at starting to do monthly cohort calls where it's like 40 bucks a month and you can talk to me for an hour. And so I'm looking at starting to offer that. It's my anti-gatekeeping Patreon. That's kind of what I call it because there's way too many people out there charging way too much to educate people. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Big thanks to you, brother, for sharing your time, knowledge, and unique perspective with us today. You are truly a master in your craft. If you've enjoyed this episode, you can find more at strengthcoachcollective.com. I'm Chris Guerrero. Thanks for listening, and we will catch you on the next one.