Dollcast
Dollcast is the trans rights reboot. Less extreme, more thoughtful and willing to have fearless conversations.
Starring Brianna Wu, Kelly Cadigan, Schyler Bogert and TafTaj, mostly normal women.
Dollcast
E1x03: Richard Hanania with Four Trans Gals
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What if navigating social media felt like walking a tightrope over shark-infested waters? This episode of DollCast With Richard Hanania, featuring hosts Skylar Bogert, Brianna Wu, TafTaj and Kelly Cadigan riffs on everything from the playful notion of gender transition benefits for gay men to the darker, algorithm-driven trenches of online outrage, to reflecting on Jonathan Haidt's insights.
Do personal beliefs clash with public personas? Join us as we unpack the emotional gymnastics of influencer culture and activism—where the spotlight often feels more like a pressure cooker than a dream. With a nod to figures like Buck Angel, we tackle the weight of representation and trans rights, sharing personal tales of balancing financial gains with self-preservation. The conversation doesn't shy away from the nitty-gritty of social media dynamics, influencer challenges, and the necessity of open discourse amidst a polarized landscape.
Navigating Social Media and Mental Health
Speaker 1Yeah, welcome to DollCast With Kelly Cadigan.
Speaker 2I know you guys are going to tell me I'm crazy, but I think all gay men would benefit from a gender transition. Brianna Wu Do you know who Brianna Wu is? It was people on the line. I just asked you about Brianna Wu. I don't remember what she has now.
Speaker 4Skylar.
Speaker 3Bogart, more confused on girls or boys would be a better fit for me, and when you're bisexual and you have the potential for either, you've got to parse that out a little bit.
Speaker 2And Taj.
Speaker 4Tuff, having your story heard, having people empathize with you on that kind of political level, I think is really hard to do.
Speaker 1It's the Dollcast. Mostly normal women.
Speaker 3Hello everyone, welcome to Dollcast where you're, welcome to Dollcast, where we bring the real talk, hot takes and plenty of laughs. I'm your host, skylar Bogert, your parasocial bestie and america's bff. Joining me today are our fabulous co-hosts. First up we have brianna wu, our intellectual powerhouse and energy source. Brie, I'm convinced you've cracked the secret to unlimited energy and you're just not sharing it yeah, that is it I have.
Speaker 1I have the, it's all mine. You're not getting this from me, skylar, it's all mine, don't you dare try to take it.
Speaker 3No, I want to know. I don't want to. I want to save money on my energy bill. All right, Next up we have Kelly Cadigan, the firecracker, who never shies away from a bold. Take Kelly, if opinions were a currency? Who never shies away from a bold? Take Kelly, if opinions were a currency, you'd be running the economy by now.
Speaker 2Yeah, I guess so.
Speaker 4Kelly for chairman of the Fed. That's my take.
Speaker 1You could tweet something nice about Trump and you could literally be chairman of the Fed. So you should consider doing that.
Speaker 2I should stop tweeting in general. You're going to stop tweeting in general're gonna stop tweeting in general is your plan. I feel like my mental health needs it right it's always mine is so bad this week.
Speaker 4Mine is trash this week, oh my god your mental health or your twitter like your mental health, I mean my twitter.
Speaker 2Actually, twitter is a hellhole. I don't even know why I stay on it, it's brutal.
Speaker 4Yeah, it's so bad. Blue skies and better. I mean I've totally cut, I stay on it. It's brutal. Yeah, it's so bad. Blue skies is better. I mean I've totally cut down my twitter use. It's been, it's really nice guy.
Speaker 1I keep thinking of what you were saying about that book. You ran where the people that are happiest are the ones that aren't on social media and like, just like, why the hell? Why am I doing this?
Speaker 3it's just the interest generation yeah, yeah, it's jonathan hyatt's work. It's the psychological stuff. Yeah, it's like online, just like when you focus on online, you get this disproportionate like you know volume of hatred and negativity, especially when you're trans. And so it's like, unless you have good connections with like, like a good like backdrop of like I don't know, let's see a discord server with your besties. Like that's like the only way you like backdrop of like I don't know, let's see a discord server with your besties. Like that's like the only way you can kind of like offset the negative energy you're getting. Otherwise, it's like, yeah, you're gonna be depressed and anxious because you think the world hates you, but it's really just a vocal minority that are like keyboard warriors you know online doing I'm such a fan of jonathan height, so oh he's great, yeah, I, I don't want to sound arrogant, but I think in my case it's not actually a vocal minority that hate me.
Speaker 1There are, like there are, a lot of people that really love me, but like I'm not imagining- like there's no, but see the people that are going to want to like actually take that time to write the comment are often the haters.
Speaker 3That's the problem. You're not hearing from the ones that love you because they're just like, oh yeah they're just hitting the like button or they're following you? Yeah, whatever it's, like it's they're lazier, I mean just for lack of better terms, like there's more motivation to write a negative comment than there is to like right, I love this, or something like that.
Speaker 4Well, I think, also like the algorithms encourage it. I mean, humanity really had, in so many ways, its first brush with artificial intelligence in the form of these social media algorithms, and pretty quickly, companies found out that what made them money was engagement, and what kept people engaged was sometimes the most inflammatory and psychologically destructive content. Content that's not true, and so, yeah, it's outrage.
Navigating Influencer Culture and Activism
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean, I think that's, I do think that's true and I think it's turning a lot of us into like the worst version of ourselves.
Speaker 1I was reading something about this and you know I've thought so much about this this week that you know one of the things that happens when you're a public figure is you have to and, kelly, you can probably identify with this too. The only way you can process that level of like negative things being said about you is emotional disconnection, right Like you have to be able to flip that switch and not feel anything Like when someone tells you they're going to kill you or they hate you or to suck this or you know all that, all that stuff and I get that at like a really high volume. But one of the downsides to this is it also stops you from feeling joy, like that same thing that keeps you also stops you from feeling joy, like that same thing that keeps you safe, stops you from feeling pleasure with other things, and you know reading that yeah, and that's why I was really thinking about what you were saying.
Speaker 2Uh, kelly, like, like, um, maybe I should just step away altogether, but it's so good for my career, like I can't you know to me the emotional disconnect is irrelevant either way, because I mean I don't emotionally disconnect at all and I still like I don't know, I don't enjoy, so I don't know if you're making money like I've been seeing those posts.
Speaker 3they're like I'm making this much on X and I'm like, oh my God, it pays to be hated.
Speaker 4I'm like oh.
Speaker 3I should step on my game, but I'm like I don't want to exert that much energy. I already got my personal life, Like whatever.
Speaker 1It's not worth the money. I mean, you know, the money I get from X.
Speaker 5I told y'all tall jaw how much it is it's it's un-trivial.
Speaker 1Again, it's a decent amount. Oh you, yeah, you can live off. It's not important. I, I don't know it's. It's not worth what it does to my life. If that makes sense.
Speaker 3Fair, that's fair that's why I'm so big on like being out in the real world but y'all know I hardly post on x. Like I mean, it's one of my own problems. Like I feel like I need to be known more. Because I mean, look, let's be real.
Speaker 3Trans rights is like going to be at its lowest point in years in in the near future, and it's just like the writing's on the wall and it's like I'm not worried so much about the short. I am worried about the short term, but I'm not overly concerned. I'm looking at the future and it's like I want to see that, like I I want people to see healthy examples of trans people that are like integrated into society. That's what unite, unites us all here. And like there are people there are trans people out there with platforms, right like buck angel, I mean he's doing this and like he's out out there talking about this all the time, and it's like that's where it's like I I feel obligated, I feel like I have like a calling to do this and I'm like I don't know I'm failing at it no, no, no.
Speaker 1What were you gonna say, kelly?
Speaker 2I don't know buck angel is so because I don't really know if he's really doing anything that great for the community. Because even if he makes great points, I just feel like half of his posts are just talking down to other trans people that don't look a certain way. So, I don't know. He's just kind of a hypocrite to me.
Speaker 1I think, oh boy, I'm ready to get canceled, let's do it, let's say something spicy. I think one of the things I appreciate about Buck is, if you know him, like he's a man, like he just didn't. He has that kind of bluntness about him and, you know, I actually think a lot of our you know FTM counterparts could take some lessons from him about a little bit more resilience and maybe a little bit more machismo. I think that would be good for them yes, yes, I'm so with you, brie.
Challenging Conversations on Social Media
Speaker 3Like I'm not gonna say he's perfect. I mean, no one's perfect. Like you said, everyone makes some mistakes but the overall message that I see him portraying, and also his platform he brings in people with like controversial takes on the trans community and he listens to them and I'm like that speaks volumes.
Speaker 4Like yeah, I I'm glad to see that, but I I see where you're coming from, kelly, because no one, you know, no one gets it all right, like I mean, I mean, so I mean yeah, yeah, I mean okay, yeah, I guess like buck angel, the few times that I interacted with him he was so sweet, but I do feel like for a while, I've kind of like had this image of him as like one of these trans people who I guess it's like audience capture or like I feel like sometimes I look at his twitter and it's just like the same kind of thing over and over and over, which is kind of like it's negative about trans activism and I wonder if, like, he would have more nuance if it weren't the case that, like you know, he just gets paid for like outputting a certain kind of message and it's like kind of all I end up seeing from him. Maybe that's also the algorithm thing where it's like kind of all I end up seeing from him. Maybe that's also the algorithm thing where it's like that's all that ends up like in front of me on my feed. Um, but yeah, I think I mean when I did his show.
Speaker 1I I I mean, you guys know my politics. I have a lot to criticize about trans activism, but when it comes down to it, I will fight with gender criticals. I mean, my mission is our dignity and you know I go to war on that every single day, you know. And what I found when I talked to Buck is, yeah, he does have those tendencies to go down those paths, but like you can sit there and talk to him about, like you know, access to children transitioning, like I have a view that there should be a small window open with extremely high standards. He disagrees and he will talk about that and I don't know. I think that's to his credit. It was, it was. There was tons of stuff we disagreed on.
Speaker 1Don't talk about it with you.
Speaker 2Oh, I'm sorry Go Kelly. Well, I just think it's funny Cause like I mean, maybe I'm talking out of my ass and I need to like look at more of his tweets. But it feels like to me that if you go on his podcast and you say that he'll have like a conversation with you and be civil, but if you were someone he didn't know and you didn't have a following and you wrote that brief like as a tweet, he would just quote, tweet it and call you a predator and be like oh for children transitioning at all. You're a bad person. I just feel like he acts so different when you get on camera or if you have a following well, don't we all, though?
Speaker 4like I act insane on twitter as well sometimes. So I like I have some empathy for like just how insane that website makes people, and like I've had the similar experience with, like talking to destiny, where, like I respond to him and I'm like in my mind, I'm like agreeing with him and like adding to his point, and then he's like this is fucking stupid, and I'm like, ah, like what do you mean? And it's just like I think everyone's on edge on that website to some extent it, just it.
Speaker 3Yeah, it amplifies whatever is gonna cause outrage, like that's what I think about. It's like who's gonna say the most outrageous thing? And then you know that's the whole I. That's what I think about. It's like who's gonna say the most outrageous thing? And then you know that's the whole I. That's that's where grifting comes from. That's exactly what that is is it's like this platform is just amplifies that so much yeah and it's. There's no room for nuance, like unless you're paying money, you can't even write.
Speaker 4But so many words, it's all like I don't know I just we've also had this conversation about like changing opinions too, and like later in the show we're going to talk to Richard Hanania, who's like changed his opinions on so many different topics.
Speaker 4And that like that political evolution is fascinating to me. But, like you know, kelly, you've also changed your opinions on lots of things. I've changed my opinions on lots of things. I've changed my opinions on lots of things and I feel like social media and the public eye is not conducive to that, which is very frustrating, because truth requires the ability to be flexible and to like change your views, but social media rewards people who are not truthful but who are like loyal super soldiers and never change their view ever, and that's so scary to me.
Speaker 1So yeah, so I want to talk about none of this is planned just so people know, but I want to talk about this.
Speaker 1I want to talk by the time this video comes out. Last week we had Colin Wright on the show and I actually just finished editing that entire episode before we recorded tonight and I want to talk through how we think that went, because I kind of feel like we walked into it and I was really there to. I was really like there to like y'all know me, I don't have a maximalist position on kids transitioning but I really wanted an answer on some things like how he valued, like you know, cis lives that may regret stuff versus trans lives. And I really noticed, as I was editing the episode, like I felt like I was the main one kind of asking him those hard questions. So I mean, did I just do y'all like agree with his political project? Were you afraid to disagree with him? Like what was kind of the vibe like with that?
Speaker 3mixed feelings from my point of view, because I saw where Colin was coming from.
Speaker 3I didn't feel like he was just fighting the element of kids transitioning, like just fighting the element of kids transitioning, like just for the sake of it, like he seemed like he had a lot of good data and like points that he was making.
Speaker 3But I also kind of saw what you, the points you were making, brie, and it was like it's so tough because it's like how do you help keep a gateway open for the right kids, like that was really. The issue was like it was just in how do you identify them? And then how do you, how do you like do it in a way, how do you allow them the space to transition that doesn't push them down the road, that inertia element, like the inertia of transition when it's not maybe right for them, versus the kids that are actually going to come through and be like, yeah, this was totally right for me and it was like we were talking at that, but it was it's tough to get at the essence of that and I feel like taff and kelly both have experiences that go into that and it's like how do we, how do we know, like, who is really the right person for medical transition when they're, you know, underneath, underneath, under 18.
Speaker 2I mean we still don't know, even with me and Tav here, who knows what, if one of us regrets our transition in like 20 years, I mean I don't think that's gonna happen as long as you're alive.
Speaker 3I mean, you could always say that.
Navigating Transition and Identity
Speaker 4I definitely regret it some days. I mean so I think you did something that's like so valuable on that podcast which is really seriously challenging the guest, and I also think that it's so easy to just agree and it's also really easy to just like signal like I'm critical of the trans movement and have that be your only message. It's really hard to like inject any kind of nuance and you know, in that that conversation I do think you are like mostly the one who are like who's like arguing with colin, and I also have my disagreements with colin, like I, I think, fundamentally agree with you, which is that like I think there probably should be a window for people to transition under 18 and that should be done under the guidance of medical experts and probably should be limited to you know, a certain type of person who we think is going to be a good candidate for transition, and I would have loved like had more like back and forth with colin about that, um.
Speaker 4But I think just nature of the show like it's hard to have like a three-way debate where there's three different positions, um, and so I was okay, like I sort of backed away from my position and took the role of maybe being like oh, I agree with you, brianna, here, or I agree with you, colin here, and I think that's just the nature of the show. But at the end of the day, I think when people watch that, they see that go live, they're going to appreciate your viewpoint, um, even if it's like a minority, they're going to see that as really courageous. And you know, I think we're probably going to get more shit for it.
Speaker 1So really I think it's gonna be the other. I can see already what the TERFs are gonna say, like look at Brianna, like asking these hard questions, so real coded to what you said before where you were.
Speaker 3Like you know you made that statement about how you always thought that if you transitioned before you were an adult, that that would have fixed, like all your problems. But in talking with kelly and um taff it's like you you realize that may not be the case, okay, because there's it's mixed vibes and it's like where does the confidence in the decision to transition come from? That's like what I always wonder.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 1Well, this is something I've thought a lot about, like from editing this. I'm saying this to both of you, but there's a reason. Every single older trans woman like regrets they didn't have your experiences, because I think both of y'all are blissfully unaware of where the story goes. If you're forced to keep repressing and it's, it's not anywhere good and I think I'm really happy that you avoided that damage. But also, in editing the show, I realized, like, like it's stunning to me to have to hear you you say that, because I think for me it was so hard earned, like my role, that I almost feel like I value it in a way that you can't get any other way, if that makes sense.
Speaker 4Yeah, and I say this in the show too, but I think I'm conscious of the fact that my experience is kind of different. I mean, every time I bring up my perspectives on my own transition publicly, pretty much every trans woman disagrees with me, right? So it's not like it's not like it's just you and me, brianna, I think it's like every other trans woman and me. We're like I think I'm definitely in the minority where I'm like, you know, I look at the total, you know improvement in mental health that I've had and I think that, like, maybe there is some, but it's a kind of minor and I'm like, is that worth? You know everything I've given up for it.
Speaker 4I sometimes do this calculus and in times when I'm feeling really down, I do that calculus and I think it was not worth it. And in times when I'm feeling really good, I think like, oh yeah, it's great that I can wear women's clothing, but I think that it's just I'm unique in the sense that, like, for me it was less of a, less of an intense, you know, just like outright positive thing. So, yeah, I say that in the show and I definitely don't like want to speak for trans women in general when I say sure and, to be clear, I totally respect that viewpoint.
Speaker 1Right like it's your own life, make up your own assessment about it. I don't want to be that trans woman telling you you're wrong, because you're my friend and you can make your own assessment about your experiences.
Speaker 3Yeah, I know I love that and you know I sometimes wonder too, like what would life have been like if I had transitioned younger? And I say younger because it's just like I still I guess I'm considered sort of young transitioner, depending on how you look at it. I mean, if you're before 30, I guess it's sort of younger.
Speaker 1Yeah, but at the same age. Yeah.
Speaker 3Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3So then, yeah, it's like so I mean, but for me, like I, that's to answer the question I sort of posed earlier, because I think about this a good bit like where does the confidence come from?
Speaker 3It came from the fact that I looked at the most critical narratives of transition and I was like I still want this, and it was because my life was going so downhill, on the precipice of gender dysphoria, and it's like I took it, took that progression, though, to realize that I needed this, like if they hadn't, if I had done it sooner, I would have been left wondering what would my life been like? Yeah, in terms of the intensity of gender dysphoria, right, like that was sort of the theme I saw with you all too, and it was like it had me thinking a little bit. I'm like, huh, maybe there is some merit to like the age of 18 or something you know, to transition, but then I also think about the issue of masculinization and what testosterone does, and it's like what's the sweet spot? Where is that like moment for the people that are really gonna benefit from this? And it's more questions Like, oh, can't get away from it.
Speaker 1I mean, I think it's hard to I wonder about this a lot. Like I have a toughness that just other people don't have or will at stuff and I tend to like just have an initiative to start things up, like I'm a really good project manager and it's hard for me not to admit that those are all skills that started like when I was still living as a you know man at 18. So I often I wonder how much of what makes me a leader like comes from me and how much comes from the experience, the difficult experiences of being trans, because, like you two are not the only people. I know that transitioned as children and it's, know that transitioned as children and it's. I've just never met anyone with that kind of um, I don't know. I think I almost think the trauma can make you stronger in some ways, if that makes sense. I hope that's not a little thing no, I think that's true.
Speaker 4I mean, we spoke about Jonathan Height earlier. Yeah, one of the things that he really talks about, yeah, yeah, exactly, is that like?
Speaker 4sometimes embracing those hard things is really important and if you always shy away from them, that can be totally destructive. So yeah, I mean I think that you can get like a silver lining in all of it, um, but I do think that like strictly speaking, um, it would be better for me if I had traced earlier. I mean, like I think everyone feels this way right, Like usually when you transition earlier, like you do get benefits from that and like you know I think about I dealt with a lot of struggles, feeling like socially ostracized in high school.
Speaker 4Um, and I think about like, about like if I transitioned in middle school and then, like you know, switched, moved counties or whatever and just like gone to high school like totally, you know, no one knowing that I'm trans, maybe that would have been like really important for socialization and like maybe a lot of the negatives that I experienced as a result of transition are not like innate to transitioning young, but in fact like a result of kind of the bigotry that. I faced.
Speaker 4So you know at the end of the day, it's very hard for me to like make an obvious pronouncement Like the transitioning at this age is good. I think what's important is that people that I can just be like totally raw and authentic and express all of my experiences and let people work through them, because people can compare that to brianna's experience or skyler's or kelly's and it's in the synthesis of all of this you actually get, get good transition advice and you learn things. So I just think at the end of the day, the important thing more than anything else is that we all feel comfortable to lay bare our experiences and just work through them, and I feel so comfortable with you guys doing that, so I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1I feel the same way.
Speaker 3Same yeah. What about you, kelly?
Speaker 4what do you? What do?
Speaker 2you think, yeah, I mean, I mean, yeah, I don't know what, like, the right age for anyone to transition is. I, I mean, I think Brie was on to something like a week ago when she said that you know, it's a lot easier, easier for females and males to transition after 18.
Speaker 2So I just think maybe the answer is holding off all female to males until they're legal adults and then just making it so F to M or M to Fs only get diagnosed through qualified psychiatrists, like I've said in the past. But I don't even know what the answer is, because I mean, a psychiatrist also told me within like less than six months that it was good to transition. So I don't even know anymore.
Speaker 1So, as I've been editing the show, you tell that story over and over, like what was so bad about her? Did you just not respect her as a clinician? Did you feel like she just wasn't qualified? What were you looking for from there that you didn't get?
Speaker 2I mean, it was a psychiatrist and a therapist I was seeing simultaneously. My psychiatrist was a man, my therapist was a woman, and both of them I was able to get the pass for HRT within six months. I don't know what I was looking for. I just feel like it was kind of like quick. I mean, I don't know, I don't know, this is just such a weird topic for me.
Speaker 3I feel like I'm in a very negative headspace at the moment, so like I don't know, Do you feel like resistance or like a little bit of, I don't know, gentle challenging is the right word, but like more probing or questioning with that. Would that have made you feel more like satisfied by the therapeutic process? I'm just curious, Like I really don't know.
Speaker 2I wish I had like an answer for you, like I guess like just more time or more like evaluation, but maybe they did all the evaluating that they needed to. I mean, I guess I don't like regret my transition. I just kind of wish I was born a girl, because I just kind of feel like this in general, I feel that to my bones.
Speaker 1But I also know if I'd just been born a girl, I'd be another racist redneck in Mississippi, probably married to a banker living in a house there, whose entire life would be about going to church and who was dating who on the local high school football team and then go there every friday with all the mississippians and just that would be my life. And I mean I'm not trying to be like it's, it's really hard. I mean I think I've I hope this doesn't sound arrogant, but I've I've objectively had an interesting life and an interesting career.
Speaker 1And you know it's hard to not argue that this experience, like, is a really, really big part of them. So it's hard for me to understand, like, where I begin and where this thing that nearly killed me like integrates with that. Like maybe I'm just a me. This is just who I am.
Speaker 4I don't know yeah, I mean you really, yeah, you have had an incredible career. I mean, I do think about that as well in my own life because I've benefited in so many ways from transition, just like sort of in ancillary ways right like not directly, but you know, posting sexy pictures online. I think the novelty of the fact that I was trans really played into that and like I see like beautiful, you know, cisgender women, they like struggle to take off in any way, as you know, posting sexy pictures, but like I was able to get a lot of attention, um, despite, you know, just sort of being like an awkward, gangly, uh, teenager, and that benefited me a lot. So I don don't know, I've benefited in some ways and certainly grown a lot from the experience.
Speaker 1You know, a really good friend of mine is Cliff Bleszinski, the guy that made Gears of War just a fantastic guy. And I see his wife, lauren, who's truly one of the most beautiful women you will ever see in your entire life and he was talking about, like, her struggles to, um, you know, form a career on tiktok and, again, beyond beautiful, beyond interesting, married to someone very famous, lovely personality like lauren. I could not say a bad sentence about her. So I hear what you're saying about there being certain advantages, like, but at the same time, like there is a melancholy to all four of us that I mean I, I, I really love spending time with you guys because I feel like the value of the show is I get to hang with like three people that understand that every single week.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 4Totally.
Speaker 4And also like yeah, understand some of the darker aspects too and like are willing to discuss that, because I don't know the trans community. It can really enforce a kind of like social code on you Like you have to believe certain things in order to like interact with a lot of trans people and that is, you know, destructive and toxic in its own way. So I really appreciate hanging out with you guys and, like kelly, I just like you say you're like in a bad headspace right now I want to be like there to support you because I feel like yeah.
Speaker 4I just know that place so well, and I know what it's like to be attacked on Twitter and like and to just feel horrible about yourself.
Speaker 2So yeah, I don't know, I appreciate it, I mean, but it's like I don't know there's nothing to really like be there for it just kind of is what it is, I mean how do you feel about it?
Speaker 4What's your head space like right now? What thoughts are going through your head?
Reflections on Aging and Identity
Speaker 2I don't know. I just kind of I don't know. To me, transition was always about like being like, like just pretty and like having men like be attracted to me, and I feel like that sounds really bad.
Speaker 2But it's really yeah, it's what you think you know, and then you just kind of get to the point where, like, you are like in a relationship and you feel like you're in your forever relationship and you know, and then it just kind of makes you realize you can't have like children and that that's not really like a future for you, and you kind of just like question wow, so it's, my life isn't about like getting people to be attracted to me anymore outside of like the one, and it's not about family and it's kind of just I don't know. And then, like I think you guys have much more better mental health than me just because you have like real jobs and you have like I don't know, you go out and interact in the real world. I feel like for me, I'm kind of just like trapped in, like trapped in the castle or like my shitty little house, and I just deal with like I don't know just negative shit all day. I feel like I'm addicted to twitter and social media and I I just feel like my life is about creating like porn and like I don't know, just like, okay, I mean, I'm glad I have this and like I enjoy doing this, but it just I don't know, even just when we like talk about things like when we had, like, you know, our last guest on, or whenever we had guests on.
Speaker 2I just feel like everyone is very like much smarter than me and is much more involved in politics than I am and I feel like somehow I've like in between, like my OnlyFans and stuff, I've gotten myself involved in like this political mess when I really don't like know anything about what I'm talking about and I just feel like I'm like retarded or like stupid and like I I don't know I just don't really feel like I contribute that much and I don't even feel like, as I'm getting older, I just don't even feel like I have as much sex appeal as I once did, and it's just. And then, like Twitter just makes me more aware of like insecurities that I've never even like thought about before, and it just.
Speaker 2I don't know everything just feels like kind of empty yeah, I've been there like a hundred percent, and I think I had this realization.
Speaker 4I started to look like a lot older when I turned like 21, 22, and suddenly I had bags under my eyes and like my face was sagging and I could see it like in the numbers too.
Finding Self-Value and Purpose
Speaker 4And that's a really hard thing about OnlyFans is that, you know, I had this numerical count of like how valuable I was to the world and it was tied to my appearance and that appearance was like uh, deteriorating in in some way that like people notice Right and like I still think that like I can be beautiful and I think it'll be beautiful until like my forties, I think it'll be so milfy and dah, dah dah, but like it's. It's real that like guys like a certain look right and like so a lot of guys will like like kind of a younger look, um, and maybe I have to wait like 15 years before I like age into the milf category and then, like I get a different set of guys. But I feel like in my childhood I never really developed that sense of self-confidence or stable identity, even really, and so I have really struggled to value myself beyond how other people value me.
Speaker 1So yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4I just feel like I relate a lot and I don't want to tell too much of my'm like, I want to just hone in on your feelings. Um, but just know that like I super relate on everything that you're saying, it feels like something that I have lived a hundred percent I, I, I feel like it's for well.
Speaker 1Okay, I want to go one at a time. Most of all, I want to bring some mom energy and say, kelly, the way you see yourself is just it's bullshit. Sorry, it's just not true. Well, what is true is you need to make different decisions, and the decisions you make right now in your 20s are going to affect what you're doing in your 30s and your 40s. And you know, I do strongly encourage you to develop things outside of your looks, to do a career with. Like you know, the show we're doing right now has a lot of post-production on it. Work on the networking with me. Get to know my really good friend pixie. Like her entire job is about networking with content creators. She's brilliant at it, right. So I mean, you know there's, there's, there's stuff you do need to be doing. And again, mom energy, you need to get the courage to leave your house more, like you just do. So there's some stuff inside of you that's holding you back, but never doubt that you've got more worth than 99% of people out there.
Speaker 1Kelly, genuinely, I know so many, many people. You are hardly the only hot trans girl I know and I invited you onto this project because I see something in you with a ton of value and I can see that clearly. Sky, I'm sure you can see it. I'm sure you can see it. So like, like, we see this clearly, it's just that you can't so like. You know that that's how I feel. Yeah, taff. As far as the the, I feel like there's such a a lie about getting older, and I was told to young women and I understand this because I remember being in my 20s and looking at women in their 30s and going, oh my God, I've only got this much time left. I'm so screwed if I don't do that and then you get to 30 and you're like, oh, these women are actually beautiful.
Speaker 3I'm fine.
Speaker 1I know that gender criticals are going to look at this, interpret this as a diss against cis women, but I don't mean this. You are going to value stuff as you get older that most cis women just are not. You're going to be fit, you're going to be doing makeup, you're going to be doing hair, and there are tons of men that are most attracted to women in their 30s and 40s. I just went to LA and spent a few days there. I must have had 10 guys try to pick me up, and I'm not even pretty, so it's like there's-.
Speaker 4I might say otherwise, though that's a pretty good indication.
Speaker 1Well, I'm not, but I'm saying. I'm saying that there is a marketplace of. There is a marketplace of. There's a marketplace, no matter where you are. It's not that you have to compare yourself to cis women in your 20s, it's you just have to look good for your age cohort, and that's going to be a lot easier. I think it's actually easier for trans girls as we get older, because we're so like skinny, yeah, yeah well, that's a great point.
Speaker 4And I mean, like you're so like inspirational to me on this.
Speaker 4Um, just because I like yes, okay, you like don't believe this when I say this, but like I see you posting like pictures on twitter and like you've gotten like ffs and like you're posting those photos and you look gorgeous and you're like thriving and like you clearly like take pride in your appearance.
Speaker 4And I think that I had this experience, you know, a few years ago where, like I realized that I was doing a certain sort of like thing in terms of like catering towards male attraction, um, that like I was leaning on my youth I guess, right, and like there's a way in which you can lean on your youth and it's like very effective to getting men's attention, and I just realized that I couldn't lean on that anymore and that was like kind of scary for me. But I think you're so right in the sense that like that doesn't necessarily make you like unattractive. It just means that, like you develop other sources of of beauty and you become like the most beautiful version of yourself at any age, as soon as you're able to do that so yeah I don't know.
Speaker 4It really resonates with me what you're saying and yeah, as much as you get all like bashful and like, don't accept it. Like you really are an inspiration from you're saying and yeah, as much as you get all like bashful and like, don't accept it like you really are an inspiration from this right to me, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1I mean I think it helps that you know I was not pretty for so long and you know like it's been a lot of FFS to get to where I am today and that took a lot of work. But so I think it kind of forced me to develop other things of value for society, to value me for, which I think has been good for my career. But look, just never discount the fact that you can talk video games Like hand to God. There was a gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous man that was at the Hilton where I was staying. He came up in a Porsche 992 and I just happened to mention it to him and I understand stuff about Porsche and this man in a suit who's just like he's sitting there and is like 20 out of 10 attracted to me just because I'm the girl that understands Porsche. So so do you know what I mean? Like what you just got to work with what you've got, if that makes sense.
Speaker 4Yeah, and that's what I would say too to like kelly, um, because, like you can like find so many sources of value in your life that go so far beyond, either like you know men being attracted to you, or even like how you feel about yourself, or you know whether or not you're starting a family, and I really, I really believe that, like any of us can find that, and like you, you will be okay as like scary and like dark as it is and I've been there I do think you are like, you are loved you are loved deeply by, by us, by our boyfriend.
Speaker 4Um, you're loved by so many people and it's going to be okay, like you're going to feel better, and it might be a week or a month or a year, but you will develop those things that you really feel pride in that go so far beyond. You know what you. You know what's really playing in your head right now. So I believe in you, yeah.
Speaker 3And I I just want to say like something that helps me is whenever I'm feeling down or I'm not, like I'm in a low point, like I just think about I need to set goals. I need to put my mind and my energy towards something other than myself. See, that's what like allows you into that space. Is that you're not you know, it's just means like you're too idle, you're not doing enough, and this is like I'm talking about myself here, like this is my own reflection and I'm and I'll realize, like I need to set goals and I need to be working towards those goals, because I need to have measurements of progress to help me through those times, because you're not always going to feel good and you're not always going to feel bad.
Speaker 3It'll change week by week or day by day, and it's better to have anchor points and, honestly, this is part of why I believe in my faith. Actually, like I got me and spirituality fills. This fills the space, it helps keep me grounded in like I hate saying like cheesy tradition, but it's like there's a reason why religious people are religious and it's not just because it's like I don't know what their program to think or it's what their community thinks it provides a source of truth, a source of like purpose in their life. And for me that's always been something that like I've sort of struggled with a little bit, but I've come back to it and seeing like there is something powerful in having like, in just believing in something more than yourself um and that's like really anchored me.
Speaker 3So I don't know like if that helps at all, like it's so it's just an option.
Speaker 2It's just I'm trying to give you options, that's the goal I think it's good to have meaning oh, go ahead, kelly, sorry yeah no, I was just saying like I hear you on like the faith thing, like sometimes I've like thought about like taking up religion or just like looking into christianity, which is what like my mom like grew up teaching us, just as like a way to like, like you said, like believe in something like greater than yourself, or just like find like a sense of purpose that's outside of you so can I ask a?
Speaker 1really? I I feel like this is kind of a little melancholy here can I ask a really? This is a real question for all of y'all. Um, so I've talked to you about how I did psychedelics um last year. A whole bunch of it. It was a real. It was really, really helpful for um, for my trauma, and it really changed my personality.
Speaker 1Um, you know, it's not a mistake that a lot of the arc I'm on right now is after uh, I did that because it did make me feel very fearless about what I want to do. But one of the things that clinical ketamine does is you're sitting there and tripping and you're going into the K-hole, as I call it, and you really feel yourself stripped away. All these stories about yourself that you tell, all of it it just gets taken apart one by one and you're just staring there at the core of yourself and this is so dark. But it's also really beautiful that what I found at the core of myself repeatedly when I did that was this desire to be a woman, was this desire to be a woman Like that fundamental thing that I want and cannot have.
Navigating Transgender Identity and Acceptance
Speaker 1that's the essence of what I am, and I think that like leads to a melancholy and a pain that never leaves me, ever. And you know, as I've like come to this realization that transitioning early would not have cured that like. Do y'all feel that too? Like this pain inside of you of always wanting to be something you can never become?
Speaker 2totally. Yeah, like I, I mean, I I feel like we're kind of just giving the terfs what we want or what they want. But like I mean, I feel like we're kind of just giving the terfs what we want or what they want. But like I mean I feel like we all kind of know that, regardless of, like, how much we transition or how much we pass, like we'll, we'll quote unquote never be a real woman, which is true.
Speaker 3It's true never be female yeah I, that's so tricky for me because, well one, I've never had a tripped into the K hole or whatever you like now. But like I mean, my transition was sort of making peace with that, like I felt. Like you know, I kind of reconciled with the fact that there's a side of me that longs for feminine expression. But it goes beyond just expression. It's like I want to embody as feminine of myself as I possibly can and I guess it came from viewing transition as a gift rather than something that I was deserved. That sort of allowed me the space of like wow, I get to do this.
Speaker 3Thank God I'm born in the 2000s and I'm not born in the 1800s. This would be so bad, I guess. I don't know, it's a different perspective, for sure, but it's like I just think of all the time periods where this wouldn't have been possible to transition and I'm like perpetually grateful that I could. But like I guess through, like I don't know, it's like I'm I'm happy, like I'm so I'm so happy with who I get to be that the longing for it was all before transition for me, like now, that I've transitioned.
Speaker 3It's like I'm so happy and like I don't know. I feel like that's not always a common experience and maybe it has to do with the fact that gender dysphoria was so was so constant for me and so long, because, like I feel like I've been experiencing that since I don't know. It got really bad when I was like 22, so that was like three years about before I actually did the medical transition. But like before that there were like spurts and like definitely periods of time where it was really a problem for me and it just I, my resolution was always like it'll go away if I ignore it or if I just pretend it doesn't exist and it's like that doesn't work. Like I, by the time, like when I was like in my upper twenties and I was leaving college, I was like all right, you know what? Like I need to face this head on because I need to move on with my fricking life and this is like a problem and it was.
Speaker 3It really got to me in my first job and it was like I was having trouble at work, I was having disruptions in my friendships and it was like I just I need to move forward. And because that worked and it's like it's. Yeah, it would be amazing if I could be a real woman. I admit that, but I've made peace with the fact that I can't be, and it's like. That's where, like I'm. I don't want to ramble on, but I'm just trying to make the point that, like for for me, transition was coming to grips and accepting the fact that I won't ever be a real woman, but at least I can be a feminized male, pass through society as a woman to the people that are willing to extend that grace.
Speaker 1I mean I 100% got that sky. Obviously it makes it so much better. I mean I 100% get that Skye. Obviously I mean it makes it so much better. What I'm saying, though, is I'm like what, 15 years further into the book than you are, and like there is a sadness that is just, and maybe it's just our personalities are different, but there is a melancholy there and a pain that just does not go away, and, kelly, I sense that in you to a certain extent. Taff, I think it's. I sense that there with you sometimes, and unless I'm imagining that, so I don't know, I think this is, I think this is kind of the nature of the beast, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean it's hard. I yeah sorry, I just I feel like I don't like have like the right things to say um, it's very hard to find the right words.
Speaker 2Yeah, but I do want to like test you know of, like, oh, who can like dress up the best? Or and when I say like dress up, it's like who can get the most surgery is, go the best surgeon to look the most like a real woman, and it's just like it. I get like so deep in thought into that because it's just like. I mean, I understand transition is, is a part of it and that includes surgery, but it's like at what point do like we just learn to like accept ourselves as we are and just like have some love and.
Speaker 2I understand like cis women deal with that too, but it's just, I don't know.
Speaker 1It's worse for us?
Speaker 3I think it's worse for us you see a picture of how you used to look. That always does it for me like I mean, I'm just being honest like that's. All I gotta do is see. Oh, that's who I used to be. Whoa, okay, yay, like that's not me today. Okay, I know I'm weird.
Speaker 1Like it's fine 100% understand what you're talking about, I guess. But there is a. There is a challenge of making peace with things like that you can't change, like I cannot change how tall I am, I just want to die, like it. Just it was killing me today. Like I'm over at Legacy Place in Dedham and you know great, I just have my hair done and all of that, and like all I can think about is how tall I am, which I just hate. You know, there's nothing I can do about that. Life has to go on and, to a certain extent, like we have to make peace with parts of this and it's it's difficult it's kind of our
Speaker 4life mission. Yeah, yeah, I think there's a way in which you can sort of feel like the closer you get, the further your goal is. And yeah, and what skylar's talking about, like looking back at where you've come from, um, you know, maybe you've been summiting the mountain thus far. As you get closer and closer to the peak, it gets steeper and steeper and you're craning your neck and, like you know, the top of the mountain is like disappearing into a point in front of you. But, like, if you look back, you can be like, oh wow, I've actually I've made so much progress and this is incredible.
Speaker 4Um, and I think that you can sort of choose to love, like where you're at, or you can like agonize about the fact that you might never get to the very top of the peak, and either way, I think it has to do with where you direct your sense of meaning or value. Yeah, and yeah, that's good. I mean, I think it's interesting that you're talking about like ketamine and how it like strips everything away. You like stripped everything away. You saw like you're something within you was like pointing towards femininity or like womanhood, and ultimately like finding a lack of it within yourself.
Speaker 1Right, Well, not finding a lack of it inside myself. It was that that desire to transition is what I am right. That is the fundamental, basic building block of me.
Speaker 4Yeah, okay, well, yeah, I mean that it begs so many questions, because I think I guess what we're getting at is that, like, this desire can express itself healthily or unhealthily, and one of the ways for it to express itself unhealthily is this desire to always, to never be at rest, to never take satisfaction in where you are and to be always like chasing more and more, ever more impossible goals, and that you can really like torture yourself with that kind of.
Speaker 4But also I think that, like, you can take a lot of joy in the actual things you've achieved. This sounds kind of obvious or cliche, but, like brianna, you're talking about how you are so happy with the fact that you have been able to maintain a level of appearance, um, you know, as you've aged, and you've aged beautifully, and you see the fruits of that with, like, these guys who are hitting on you. That is really like an incredible testament to how far you've come and all the good things you've been able to create in your life by cultivating femininity and so, like I guess I try to focus on that, like, yeah, I'll never be a woman.
Exploring Gender, Transition, and Identity
Speaker 4But now I'm in a world where I feel comfortable putting on like I don't know silly little like strawberry earrings and like a dress and like that and I would find those things cute and desirable if I was a man um because that's just like I just like those things and I think it's good to be like okay, I'm doing something I like that's cool. So I don't know. I guess that's how I see it there is a cost to that.
Speaker 1I found, before transition me, you found this to sky. Uh, I just have like relationships with, um, you know, girls and I would think things like exactly like that. Oh, my god, those strawberry earrings are so cute. I love those, right. It wouldn't be just that I wanted to wear them, it would be that I wanted to be able to communicate stuff like that, right, and the fact that I get to have those relationships now, um, like like it, it will never stop being meaningful to me, like there's something nice pleasure in a way that I, I know I could pass a thousand cis chicks on the street and they would just completely take it for granted. They don't understand. They don't understand what. It's, a way that I, I know I could pass a thousand cis chicks on the street and they would just completely take it for granted. They don't understand. They don't understand what it's like to be kept from this stuff.
Speaker 3So hard one, for sure yeah, that's so interesting because I don't know like I feel like part of my transition was accepting that side of myself. But I wasn't satisfied with like because I did it in increments. So there was a long phase where like that just led to this perception where I was a gay man and like. That was fine, but it wasn't the target of my problem. Like that wasn't the essence of my gender dysphoria. I wanted to like for lack of better terms have the body of a female version of myself as much as possible. Like that was what really comprised the essence of dysphoria.
Speaker 3Cause I don't want to like. I don't want to confuse the stereotypes for like. Otherwise, you know gay men that are able to just be like. That's me and that's fine because I believe in that too, but it's just like. Like, in other words, society should justify, should tolerate gender non-conformity. It's just that there's going to be a subset that are going to have a problem of a cognitive dissonance with the body they have and it's going to persist beyond those things and those are the candidates for transition and it's like the goal is just how to help, how to identify those people without like encouraging it too much, or without like not allowing it. It's like there's a sweet spot and that's where, like the tug of war, always is.
Speaker 1I don't know, that's just I really this is. You know, it's so interesting skies. I've gotten to know you like. I feel so many similarities with your story, but I almost feel like the beast we're dealing with is fundamentally different in some way. I don't know, it's, it's very. I haven't put my finger on it totally yet, but I think we keep shooting the show I mean yeah oh yeah, you, she just you seem like happier.
Speaker 2I don't know yeah, I feel like you're you're just, it's almost like you don't experience sadness. Look me which I'm kind of like.
Speaker 3Oh my gosh, no well it's, it's all for my 12 cats. I mean, let's be real okay, but that's a.
Speaker 4That's a great point. Like you have these 12 cats, that's a huge source of meaning in your life. They're like transcend transition, my babies.
Speaker 3But like a lot of it too is the decision making process and like not not embracing transition as a pathway. I I hate saying that, but it's like I put the brakes and the resistance on myself because I didn't trust therapy to do it for me. Exactly what kelly was sort of saying with like six months, and she's like, well, I don't know, was that good therapy? And and it's like I mean I was a little bit longer, but it wasn't like. But before I ever went to the clinics, I was challenging myself from the beginning and it's like, and that's why I went and I, you know, banked my sperm and I'm hopeful to have children. Like that's part of my roadmap, but like I want that for all trans people and that's something I want to see part of my roadmap, but I want that for all trans people and that's something I want to see part of care. And it's like I don't know how to raise the standards other than just by talking about it and just helping people figure it out.
Speaker 3It doesn't mean everyone needs to choose that, but they should have an opportunity to choose that, or at least in a therapeutic setting. And it's like and then there's furthermore, I think there should be a waiting period of like figuring out yourself when it comes to like living is the opposite sex? Yeah, like you've got to rule out those things, because what if you are? Just because what I've learned by listening to the detransitioners is that there's a lot of them that had same-sex attraction and their therapist affirmed them too quickly and they went down the road of transition, only to regret that later and speak out against it. And I'm like you know, I get it, it was wrong for you. And there's a lot of people and I'm still of the opinion where you know, as long as I'm alive, there's a potential that I'll detransition. But I can confidently say that I would not regret my transition whatsoever because it got me through things that I could not otherwise get through.
Speaker 1A hundred percent.
Speaker 3And that's, that's the defining characteristic, and it's like that's the essence that we need to be working with people to help them understand, and so there's no way that approach life.
Speaker 1That's not, on honest terms, like you just can't put a value on that. So I fully agree with that. So can I admit something to y'all about my K-hole that I've never told anyone else? Please go for it. This is super politically incorrect, okay, so okay.
Speaker 1So I have had exactly two girlfriends. Okay, it was one when I was like 14, from 14 to 19. That was just. It really was like I was lonely. And then I had a girl that I dated for a few months, right before I came out, who was basically a dude. But I have always, through my whole life, I've thought that I had some bisexuality, like some of that, and one of the things that really fundamentally changed for me after doing ketamine is any attraction to women at all. I feel like I really understood where that was coming from, which was trauma, and it is just gone. Like I feel nothing whatsoever and I'm like, did this change my brain on this? Did I just? Was I just confused about what I was feeling this whole time. It was like y'all know that feeling like where you're, like, oh, you're so pretty, I want to be like you, right, like is that what I thought that was? Because it just it really made me like super straight in a way. I don't and I'm googling up have anyone else had this experience.
Speaker 4That's so fascinating. Yeah, wow, no, yeah, I mean, I think there's something to that in the sense that, like, trauma can really warp your brain and it can like radically change much easier. To like prioritize what's important and I think that's probably what happened with you is like you. I don't know exactly the mechanism for how but, like you probably.
Speaker 4You just saw it for what it was this like outgrowth, this narrative of drama and we're able to let it go. That's so powerful because, yeah, I know that I'm certainly like haunted by my own traumas and narratives and letting go is hard, so it's really good to come to massachusetts.
Speaker 1We'll go to the ketamine clinic today. We'll make a whole weekend.
Speaker 4I would totally, totally do that.
Speaker 1Absolutely, it's really good.
Speaker 4It's really good.
Speaker 1Oh my gosh, it's the best $500 show ever spent. Ketamine's on break. K-hole's on break.
Speaker 4Thanks, rihanna, thanks for that.
Speaker 1You'll have a good time.
Speaker 1It's great Like you lay back in the chair and they inject it into you. You just just like go into this and you're like and like, like you feel yourself go into it. Oh my God, it's great. And then you wake up and you're just like processing all the stuff that you were thinking about for the rest of your day. You can see all the hardest parts of yourself like from outside of yourself, like it's a third person. So then when the ketamine wears off, it doesn't like have any impact. It's, it's a third person. So then when the ketamine wears off, it doesn't like have any impact. It's it's really beautiful. That sounds powerful.
Speaker 4Yeah, yeah sorry about like drugs and psychedelic experiences as well. Um, because I've also I mean, I've mostly experienced with psilocybin, and it's quite an experience as well I really do different.
Speaker 1How is it different?
Speaker 4I mean, frankly, it sounds quite different, but again, like I don't know if, um, my psilocybin experience is just like quite unusual. I found it to be electrifying, like I felt like I had climbed to the top of mount olympus and like stolen zeus's thunderbolt and I was like I could rain it down on people. I felt like I had, like you know, descended to like the depths of, like bacchanalian wilds and I had slain a tiger and stolen its heart, like I. Just my experience of psychedelics, you know, mushrooms, is just, it's very like raw and wild and I feel like the barrier, the conscious barrier that keeps me, you know, within like human customs and like you know, sort of like norms had been dissolved and I was able to like feel really directly the rawness of nature around me. So, certainly like intense. It made me feel kind of like raw, wild and, uh, powerful. Yeah, very interesting, um, but definitely like a bit different but it makes me want to try.
Speaker 4I don't know what I mean, because I would love a more like um okay, psychedelics, very fun. Um, I would love to strip down to, like you know, remove the kind of barriers and be able to evaluate myself objectively, because I feel like that would be like a very growth oriented thing. I feel like I would learn it's kind of scary.
Speaker 1It is really scary, it's really scary all good things are a little scary. I think another realization when I came to is like and it's you get words and feelings that are like, really meaningful to you. It's like realizing that at my core I am a weapon like to do stuff, and I think that's actually really true.
Speaker 3Yeah that is so fascinating. Yeah, I can say alcohol does nothing like that. Yeah, I don't, that was like my. Yeah, that's my like I don't know. Wild excursions have all been drinking, so you can get pretty wild with that yeah, yeah alcohol is a terrible drug you can't. No, I, I, yeah, I completely second that. Um, no, that's why I'm like a little jealous of this whole ketamine thing. Um, but um, do you have any?
Speaker 1like faith-based objections to doing ketamine or something like that um, well, I mean it's not like a straight drug. It was like in a clinical setting. A doctor prescribed it, you know yeah it's.
Exploring Escapism and Self-Discovery
Speaker 3I don't know the legality, but I, I mean I wouldn't do it just on the basis of of that, probably, um, yeah to be what's legal in massachusetts yeah, it is okay oh god, you don't think I'm doing back alley drugs, do you? I enjoy it when it comes to kelly, I know, um no, yeah, but like I just drinking was my whole thing and that was really just to like deal with the gender dysphoria back when I was in college.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, oh my God, I know that one yeah.
Speaker 3Escape. Take your mind away all that stuff.
Speaker 4Well, kelly, I mean I don't know if you want to talk about it, but like I feel like we've also kind of had similar experiences trying weed before you and I, um, and the ability for like that drug to be kind of an escape, but you, you stopped doing weed. I mean, how has that been? Have you felt a lot better because of that?
Speaker 2I mean honestly like I thought it was gonna like make me like less bipolar and like not as sad or like up and down, but I still feel like I'm exactly the same, except it's like I don't have my vices now. I wish I liked alcohol. I sometimes try to like use alcohol every time like I feel like doing weed and it just like doesn't hit the same for me. I'm just not a fan. I've never been like an alcohol person. Um, I haven't gone back to weed, though, like ever since I don't even know how long it's been, but when I said I quit, like I haven't touched it, like since, but I had like a real.
Speaker 2Yeah, I had a real problem with weed for like since I was like 19.
Speaker 2I got into it when I was like in college with an ex and it was like ever since then I was just like obsessed with it, like to the point where I was getting high, like literally all the time. It would be like I would wake up, do an edible, oh, the 12 o'clock, two o'clock, hits, do another edible, and I wouldn't be like doing like oh, like 10 milligrams, like I literally would have like a 1000 milligram thing of like RSO and I would do like 300 of it every session and I would just be, like high out of my fucking mind like 24 7, and I kind of thought that's why I was like so crazy on Twitter and so like bipolar with my takes, but clearly like I still fucking am this way sober, so I don't know, but I guess I'm glad I'm off of it because it's probably not healthy.
Speaker 2But I don't really feel like my mental state has changed that much.
Speaker 4I mean, maybe it's worse in some ways, right, because I feel like if you are on weed or any kind of drug, that might let you engage in certain behaviors and distance yourself from it, and without that you're still going to engage in the same behaviors, but now you might be all the more kind of aware of them and that can be like really scary and hard to deal with. I don't know if that's your situation, but I definitely know lots of people who have done various drugs and they realize, like as soon as they get sober, like oh my God, now there's so much stuff that like if I want to feel better.
Speaker 4I have to like address in my life.
Speaker 1That's right and that's like they've been pushing it off and now they're having to face it yeah, 100 you know it's uh, take it from a gal that really went to rehab in an extreme way. But you know the the thing is I first of all unpopular opinion. Weed is a terrible drug. I do not like this drug and it concerns me how many sisters I know that deal with their problems by just smoking weed nonstop. I think it kills your career drive and it's like this inch inside of yourself is so precious. It's this part of you that is so beautiful and raw and I think weed just really diminishes that. I mean it changes your brain over time.
Speaker 1But what I learned going to rehab is that when you're trying to escape from something with substances and then that substance isn't there, you've got a hole inside of yourself. You've got to fill it with something. Um, you know, or you're going to relapse. So I don't know, it sounds like kelly, it's. I mean, first of all, it takes time after you stop using a lot for your brain to really clear and for you to have clarity. You know, with my drinking and drug problem it probably took me a year, really two, to get really back up to where I could think clearly all the time. But I mean you've got to, you've got to address, like what caused you to do that in the first place. I mean, for me it was very simple. I wanted to be a girl and then I transitioned and I felt no need to ever do drugs again. But I don't know. There's sounds like there's something deeper there.
Speaker 2I don't know if mine really had anything to do with my transition. Because I just remember like I went to college and I got like my first relationship and that was like a high for me because I never felt like I had to college and I got like my first relationship and that was like a high for me because I never felt like I had like a guy that I was actually attracted to, like be interested in me and then when he left, I kind of just started doing it all the time because that's what we did together and I I don't know.
Speaker 2and then I just TikTok happened and I just kept doing it and I don't know, it's just, I don't know if it was ever really about my transition, I think I don't know. And then I just tick, tock happened and I just kept doing it and I don't know, it's just, I don't know if it was ever really about my transition. I think I just and I don't even know if it was really about that relationship after a while I think I just really liked getting high, I just liked feeling something and it's. It's funny you say it was a career killer, for a lot of people are a motivation killer, cause lot of the time like I'm like damn. I feel like I made much better content when I was. I feel like I was funnier, I feel like I didn't give a fuck as much. I felt like I, I don't know. Now I just feel like my creative part of my brain is kind of like dead really wow yeah it's not bad
Speaker 1sorry no, it's. I feel like you are, I don't know. I feel like you're in a period right now where you're trying to discover yourself, and I mean the friend I want to be to use to help you do that, because I care about you. So, however, we can do that yeah yeah, I care about you guys too.
Speaker 4what do you do for fun? Yeah, we can do that. Yeah, care about you guys too.
Speaker 3What do you do for fun?
Speaker 2Yeah, I don't know I would get high before and I don't know, for the last like four months I really feel like I've been doing any or having a lot of fun.
Speaker 4You gotta find them.
Speaker 3Books, video games, cats.
Speaker 2Every time I try to get into video games I feel like I can just never get into it. I've tried like every type of game and I did kind of like life is strange. Zach got me to play like that new life is strange game and I was like, wow, this is the first time I'm like actually having fun playing a video game. I don't know, I like music and movies, but I mean there's only so much. I don't know. I don't really feel like that's like a real hobby, so I don't know.
Speaker 1The other thing ketamine did is it completely took away the enjoyment I felt from playing video games.
Speaker 3I barely played that ever since Wow so.
Speaker 4I have like a blocker on my computer. I use cold turkey which lets me, like, block certain things. My access and I have it set so like all programs that come out of the steam folder are limited to like an hour total of time that I can spend on them, and the maximum amount of time that I can spend playing Hearthstone is 30 minutes a day because this is so embarrassing.
Speaker 4I like I've spent an insane amount of time playing Hearthstone, to the point where, like I look back on that time and I'm like I could have learned like three languages in the time that I spent playing Hethstone and I've, like done nothing in this game and so video games have been like my biggest vice.
Speaker 1Um, they were for a long time.
Speaker 4Yeah, yeah but okay, brianna, you have, like this, uh, very ambitious impulse in you and yeah, definitely I have that too.
Speaker 4But I think what I realized is that I was using video games to kind of as a surrogate activity for actual success and I could like play video game and I could win in that video game and that felt really good, um, but it was kind of illusory and you know, for me it was like a way of masturbating that urge for success and competition and domination and, like you know, succeeding. But it was just it didn't get me anywhere.
Speaker 1And so I'm learning to like actually pursue real sources of success that aren't whatever I mean, this is why we've got a big media hit coming up together and I I take a lot of pride from getting younger women and kind of opening up doors for them. You know, kelly, you were talking about how you want to, uh, have children. I just gotta be real with you the older you get as a trans woman, the more this hurts, hurts, it kills me sometimes to see moms dropping their kids off the school. They're turning around the corner from me and I just I can't do it. It hurts and there's just there's no filling that right. So one of the things I really try to do is to help younger women in their career. So, like kelly, we did a podcast yesterday. We had a really good time. I was really proud to open that door and kind of teach you the media game there. Taff, when we do that.
Speaker 1I, I, I really delight in doing that. Yes, guy, we did something fuck angel the other day. Yeah that was so I don't know. I guess if you've got that ambitious impulse in you. Something I am extremely good at is networking and back-channeling.
Speaker 4I know literally everyone and I'm happy to help in any way I can as your friend you know, I kind of want to get into like tech and like, but I just feel really like weird, like networking and kind of like schmoozing in that sense. And I had a conversation with one of my friends who, like she's she's very successful in her career in tech and she's like my age, she's a trans woman and she like just networked so well to get to that position. And she gave me the advice. She said, like, like you should just be really ambitious and like, put yourself out there.
Speaker 4And I thought about it and I thought, like you know, I don't feel comfortable networking with like tech stuff, but when it comes to politics, like I think I have something real to offer in that world and I feel very comfortable talking to people about politics and the idea of, like you know, going on this reason, interview with me you or, like you know, any other media engagements or just, like you know, personal networking with people that really resonates with me and that feels to me like I feel so much energy and desire to do that, because it's like networking that is actually in a direction that I want. And so I think I just realized that like, oh, I thought that like maybe I wanted to go in one direction, maybe because, like my father's a programmer and like as a kid I always thought that would be like my direction in life. Um, but now I'm like, wait, actually, you know, when I'm honest with myself about what I want, I actually am okay with talking to people and it just it took being you know real with myself about that.
Speaker 1Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think all of us have like speaking of politics, taff. I really think all of us have a role to play. You know, like right now, even as we were recording the show tonight, washington Post put out an op-ed by their entire op-ed board calling for a national discussion about trans women in women's sports wow as we were recording, Trump put out something basically saying again he's going to end all childhood transition.
Speaker 1So we're living in a moment where and I don't want to be messianic here, but there is going to be a very deep thirst for moderate public figures on the trans issue.
Speaker 4Yes.
Speaker 1The comments from me on Piers Morgan the other day were almost universally positive. It was like I've never seen anyone say anything positive. I've never seen a trans woman I could relate to before on this.
Speaker 4Amazing People want to hear your opinions on these things. That is so gratifying.
Speaker 1So I got Pierce to say on the air that he unequivocally stands with trans women and wants us to have dignity and equality, just like everyone else, if we all compromise on a few things, which is a huge one. So, taff, I sit there and the way this is really getting meta with career stuff, but there are so many people out there that have a childlike need for attention and that is why they do what they do in politics. It's all about them, and it is stunning to me that people accuse me of like being self-involved or whatever, because I think I have the opposite problem, that I have a mission that I will think about and I will just entirely damage myself like getting to that mission as evidence for this trans stuff right now. Um, I think there is a calling right now to reshift the conversation, and I think it's one we can win, but I need people like you to step up and to help me in that that public work, if that makes sense.
Speaker 4Yeah, I think that makes no pressure. Okay, of course. Yeah, I just got to be at the center of the site, guys taking this messianic role. No yeah, no, I feel very similar. Tav Tosh is the prophet. I've come down from the mountain.
Speaker 3No, but it's true, though, tav. Like it's so true, you have a flow to your dialogue and it's so lovely, like I love listening to you talk.
Speaker 2I do too. I love listening to you.
Speaker 3Yeah, I'm like, oh, let me take tips. And like it was so funny when we were talking, just like before this, before this week's you know pod we were planning out and it was before you joined and kelly and I kelly was like we were just chat, we were just chatting and I'm like taft gave me this eye-opening analogy that's gonna change my life on this and it was just throwing the object in the air and catching it and I was like I could like relay it perfectly because you resonated so well with me. I loved that.
Speaker 4I was just like it takes one to know one and I'm like I hope I can be more like tap it made me so good when you were like you know you, I felt like you really got it and I felt like I was speaking and I felt just understood by you in that moment. Um, so I felt so good about that. And that is something an experience that I've had over and over talking to you three where, like I've tried so many times to talk to like other people into the trans community about things and just been like shut down over and over and I don't get that with you guys.
Speaker 4We're like you know even if we disagree on something, there's like a desire to listen and, you know, to lay it all out there, and that has been so valuable in just making me feel less crazy and like maybe I really do have something valuable to share with the world, of course you do.
Speaker 3You totally do, we totally do, we all do. Yeah, and you do too, kelly. Yes, yes, kelly.
Speaker 1Yes, you too yes you smile, you have something to value.
Speaker 2Yeah, we all do, for sure yeah.
Speaker 1Kelly, I'm thinking about just jumping on a plane tomorrow and flying to a random city. You should do something fun too.
Speaker 2I agree, yeah, I have all the free time in the world, so I'll go to wherever city you want me to. It's not like I have plans.
Speaker 3We really do need to all hang out, though, and do an in-real-life session. I just feel like it would be a hit yeah, come to the casa de woo, it's amazing I'd love to a trip northeast, I can do that maybe not right now.
Speaker 1It's a little cold, a little miserable true, yeah, it is winter y'all want to wrap this up. I don't think we'll talk about josh today yeah, we didn't even talk about her.
Speaker 4Was there anything? But um, yeah, I mean our conversation was so much more natural and real than it was, even if it got a little solemn.
Speaker 1But yeah, sometimes it's like that I think trans girls are gonna listen to this and they're going to just cry the whole time.
Speaker 3Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, it is true, though I do love the energy of just being so vulnerable here. Like I feel that comfort because I don't feel like I'm being judged with what I share or that I have to follow an ideological script which, like that has been. That was predominantly my experience for, like when I first transitioned and I was like I'm entering this new identity and I was like so happy figuring myself out, but I found myself afraid to like say the wrong thing, and I don't feel that way with you all.
Speaker 4And.
Speaker 3I, yeah, I want to ride that out and just like harness that energy and, I don't know, be the best version of myself here with all of you all, and I'm just so excited.
Speaker 1I mean Sky. Let's be honest, A lot of trans Twitter would completely shut you down for being Christian and having some conservative tendencies, that's just like it is, unless you're the most fringe leftist, you don't have a seat at the table, which is the whole problem.
Speaker 3Oh, yeah, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Like I mean, when you start going down into it and I start talking about auto sexuality or any of those other things, it's like, yeah, I'm going to get so much hate. Like I mean, I'm ready for it, though I'd rather go to the direction Taff said and be honest and truthful and help, really help people figure out themselves, regardless of how that looks, and it's just like I have my beliefs and I'm not afraid of anymore. Plus, I'm getting older and like I thought it was kind of like no, not gonna lie, tap, when you were talking about like I think you mentioned wrinkles and I'm like what? What wrinkles? Like I can't see anything.
Speaker 2you look, yes, come on. Yeah, no, I don't know why are you using?
Speaker 4retinol. I've mastered the lighting care, I think so. Um, I just use retinol for, like, good skin care, I mean. So retinol can promote, like uh, collagen production and, you know, skin renewal. It's really nice for making your skin just look plumper and, you know, smoother. It can reduce fine lines and wrinkles as well.
Speaker 1So I do recommend it. I'll tell you about the 40 year old version of that sometime you've got the real, the real hardcore stuff.
Speaker 4Yeah, oh, I respect that. I'll have to get tips from you.
Speaker 1Okay, we're all heading in that direction. Yeah, okay, you know what my my injectionist?
Speaker 3she's 10 years older than me and she looks gorgeous, so that's a good sign yeah, well, my goal is that I don't care too much. That's my goal. I don't care if I look like a wrinkly grandma I just want to have. I want to have people to love and that love me, and that's, that's enough for me.
Speaker 1Okay, scott, that's so sweet, it's so naive. I tuned out all this stuff for way too long in my career and it's the reason there are all these terrible pictures of me, cause I was just like, look, I look fine enough to pass and I would just put on foundation, and I didn't stress this stuff and I had so much less power back then. So it's I. If you want a media career, I disagree. You got to take this stuff seriously.
Speaker 3Well, you got to remember, I'm not in it for money, I'm in it for the mission.
Speaker 1The money comes from doing good work. The money comes from doing good work, I mean no one pays you.
Speaker 2Oh, what was that I said? So you're saying we need ffs?
Speaker 3no, shut up it should be you it's fair for brie because brie's in the media, so the looks are directly related to, like, the success of exposure.
Speaker 1To some extent, that's what you're getting at it's not just that my career is fundraising and the ability to network with powerful people helps. If you don't look wrinkly, I mean, it's just true.
Speaker 3So I don't know like yeah, yeah I mean there's careers in the spotlight for a reason and they're like there's a reason. When you look at the tv anchors and you know the women are all like polished and everything it's for a reason. It's.
Speaker 4It's exactly what you just described yes yeah yeah, and unfortunately it's kind of like sexism too like you know, men can get away with looking like old and gross, but like unfortunately with women like there's just an expectation which sucks, but like the rest makes them hotter.
Speaker 2You know, like I mean I hate to say it, but I just I tell this fact all the time. It's like I feel like you're just getting hotter as you get older and I'm just getting more ugly, and that's just how it is for women this is why I think TERFs are so miserable.
Speaker 1I genuinely think this, because it is so hard being a woman. The older you get because there's a lot of bullshit, right, I mean, especially if you can have children, like your body starts breaking down in some scary ways. So I don't know, I think like all that frustration of restructural sexism just ends up bursting out and we end up being the targets.
Speaker 3I used to think that, but I honestly think there's a lot of people coming to the turf position from you know I don't want to say like, not, not, not out of like insecurities, more out of the statement of like they're worried about the infringement. I mean, that's the whole thing about the political issue of donald trump getting elected on trans, like wokeism, like that's bringing in people that would otherwise be moderate and not really care. See like a man win in women's sports and then become like I don't know. I want to say turf, but like they're going to move in that direction because they're going to see the legitimacy of biological sex over you know, extending courtesy and grace towards people that actually pass or like put an effort for the transition. And so it's like I used to. I used to think a lot more like that brie until recently, and it's been like.
Speaker 1That's why I'm like we gotta like get out there well, I I just I delineate the normal people that have questions about this stuff, that are fine with us living our lives, and the gender critical nut jobs. The definition of yeah Kelly you know what I'm talking about these ultras like you could post. You posted this the other day. It was a brilliant thing. You said it was like trans women breathes, like gender critical person. Do you understand? That's a biological male breath. That's the kind of people I'm talking about.
Speaker 3It's not that was hilarious, obsessed with us like this I have.
Speaker 2The comments were like well, they're right. I'm like, of course, of course, that's what you people would fucking say.
Speaker 3They're such freaks oh let them say it though, like I mean, my view is like well, I don't need to say my view, yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah, Sky, actually you have how many Twitter followers? How many Twitter followers do you have?
Speaker 3Under a thousand.
Speaker 1Okay, I think we have slightly different experiences. You're blessed, you're blessed.
Speaker 2You don't want them.
Speaker 4You don't know, you don't know yeah.
Speaker 3I mean you don't know, you don't? Yeah, I mean the curse. Yeah, it's true. No, I, I don't really. It's like it's out of obligation. It's the fact that I'm like I gotta be online to help, like, trans people have a better image, but I don't even know how effective it is. I'd rather just leave it up to brie and then let people watch it on video platforms, because it's like that's where I think actual nuance and discussion happens. Otherwise, like x is just for people that want to vent.
Speaker 4That's how it feels, like I'll be honest, I want more x followers and I'm on that, on that grind set. I'll retweet you, thank you, thank you yeah all right.
Speaker 3so, and now we're excited to welcome our special guests to the show, richard Hanania. Richard is the author of several thought-provoking books, including Public Choice Theory and the Illusion of Grand Strategy and the Origins of Woke. He's also known for his work on elite human capital, or what we'll call EHC, which sounds fancy, but let's be real, richard's probably just figuring out how to make us all feel bad for not reading enough. And, of course, he's a prolific poster on X, stirring the pot daily with his takes on politics, culture and everything in between. Richard, welcome to DollCast.
Speaker 5Thank you. I am honored to be with such beautiful and distinguished company. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 3Yes we're so happy to have you. We're excited to have you here. So we got into the shit.
Speaker 1We really got into the shit when I appeared on your show. It was crazy how angry people got at this. And then I put out a sarcastic tweet calling you my bestie. Like I'm looking at my blue sky today. It's just like Brianna is hanging out with her bestie Richard. Like it's insane.
Speaker 5Yeah, I mean I got less of it because I think conservatives are just like they don't have this kind of culture. I mean they have weird cultural stuff, but not like you shouldn't talk to this person. I just feel like because they've been excluded for so long, they're just happy anyone would talk to them. So there's not this idea. Oh, you shouldn't talk to this person. So I don't think I got it as hard as you did, but yeah, there was. I mean I don't know, I don't, do you pay attention to the mentions, like I very rarely do, yeah, I do.
Speaker 5How do you have time for anything else? I mean, it's just.
Speaker 1So I so was admitting it, I don't run a lot of my social media, so like don't tell anyone.
Speaker 4we'll edit that out. Yeah, no, but I okay. I've seen some of the backlash too in regards to you, hanania, where I will I follow the right-wing posters, the people who like talk about raw milk and whatnot, and they'll be like, oh, hanania, talking to a transsexual, what is this? This is disgusting. Yeah, exactly, I mean people get like mad, but it's I mean speaking of elite human capital, I think one of the elements that you've honed in on again and again is like openness, or ability to be like a high decoupler, and, I think, ability to like engage with ideas in the raw, regardless of like who they're coming from, key element of elite human capital, I think.
Speaker 5Yeah, that's completely right and I've always had these sort of rightoid instincts and I think that they and that's why I'm like you know, but I also have sort of an intellectual life, and I think when you have these instincts you don't have an intellectual life at all, like a lot of an intellectual life, and I think when you have these instincts you don't have an intellectual life at all, like a lot of these raw milk and anti-vaxxers and such are.
Speaker 5It's just, you know, you're just sort of disgusted by everything and angry all the time. I mean, I have spent a lot of of my Twitter time on Twitter trolling these people. It's becoming a thing where, like you, can never keep doing the same thing forever because, like you know, I talked to transsexuals. That would have been shocking. You know, maybe a year, at this point, I mean, no one's gonna care, I mean we have this one.
Speaker 4You can be fucking transsexual I know and then you'd be doing exactly what everyone else is doing just behind closed doors. So yeah, perfect.
Speaker 5Yeah, I think I'm a trendsetter. I was into this racism and all this other stuff way before any of these other people were, exactly, and I've turned away from it before them. So, yeah, they're behind. I mean their talking points, their instincts, their aesthetics. They're where I was five or 10 years ago and, yeah, some of them will probably never catch up because there is, I believe, a rightoid type. I believe there is a general factor that makes you sort of close-minded and racist and conspiratorial and homophobic and religious and you can separate these things.
Speaker 5There's people who are racist and not religious and the opposite. But most people, I mean, for most people they're like they're one of those things you can predict they're going to be those other things. And so, yeah, I mean the rightoid. I mean what I'm working on now and what I'm thinking a lot about now is like how redeemable are these people? Like, how bad is the left? And like you, you know, is there a way you can channel, like, all this energy out there into something productive?
Speaker 3well, is there such a thing as like having too open a mind? Like this is kind of where I feel like things sort of went with the left. I mean progressivism, for, at least from my viewpoint as, like you know, in the trans community is like it feels like it's gone off the rails, like we took that concept of gender identity and took it all the way and look where that got us. Like I have to wonder, does elite human capital kind of burn itself out and sort of like channel into some of more of a restraint? Like there needs to be a little bit more balance to this. I mean, what's your take on that? I mean, you're the expert here.
Speaker 5So I'm this will be announced by the time. It's already been sort of announced, but it's going to be announced more officially by the time this comes out, probably that I'm writing a book on elite, human capital. So these are all the questions I'm trying to work out.
Speaker 5Right. And so there I'm going to have. Like most chapters are going to make it sound like elite human capital is just good and low human capital is bad, but I'm going to force myself to write a chapter steelmanning the case for low human capital. And elite human capital makes mistakes in institutions. I think universities are a great example of this.
Speaker 5So one of the things that's good, elite human capital in a way, is like always sort of doing things that are contrary to human nature. So human nature is just very primitive. Human nature is very tribal. It like gathers around people who are powerful and strong men and leaders. I mean, this is like the Trump cult and people, just you know, start worshiping and following the leader. And elite human capital often is liberal because it goes against that.
Speaker 5At the same time, like you can OD on that, like you can OD on anything else, you could just have a position where, like you could have the universities, where, like, the students come in and yell at the professors and then they, you know, they can't, you know they demand that they take time off or they demand that they not be graded. These people who are like sort of below, like you need a kind of sort of hierarchy. You need a way for institutions just to function and you become rule obsessed and you become like you know if one person is scared of covid, you all have to mask forever. If one person's feelings are hurt, you have to shut down speech. And it's like the question is like at the macro level, like we're looking at politics and we're thinking of these people called conservatives and people called liberals and there's like within them there is like an elite human capital tendency and there is low human capital tendency. These are coalitions of people across the political spectrum. I guess I should define.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean gosh, I guess I mean I have a real like, is it? How can you tell if you're elite human capital, is it?
Speaker 2like, if you have to ask are you?
Speaker 5Under affirming care, you I mean you're beyond, so take for instance, setting up doll cast.
Speaker 1I mean, I used to think like I was just a normal person, just because I've got like a wide array of skills and I think everyone like setting up the show with me here can go like, oh, we need a motion graphics done, brianna can do that. Oh, we need to get this guest on. Oh, brianna can do that. Oh, we've got this technical problem, brianna can do that. Oh, we've got this technical problem, brianna can do that. And I feel like I'm actually really, really good at picking up a lot of different skills that, yeah, I've used throughout my career. And then, like the other side of that, like you know, you talk about rule breaking being an aspect I truly like. Do not care if people like I think about doing the right thing a lot, but I have a rich history of going against the grain at real personal cost. In a way, that's been like really important moments, and I think you can see me doing that right now with the trans community. So do I count or do I not count?
Speaker 5So the way I characterize it. So when I talk about the pathologies of universities, it's an issue of like a tendency among elite human capital, but not every elite human capital turns into like a nerd and a real follower. It's a combination of intelligence and idealism, right being interested in politics, being interested in sort of truth. If you just look at these, like you look at these, you know you look at a lot of the right wing influencers and they're like into ideas but not really like you can't discourse that one.
Speaker 3It's not that you can make a point.
Speaker 5it's like you know, ump is tough and this person is tough and this person is not tough, and this person is gay and this person is Jewish. Right, this is like this is like, and there's entire intellectual structures built on just like these silly instincts, but they're not really engaging with ideas in any way, and so there is like a kind of idealism there, but it's stupid. And then you have like smarts without the idealism, that would be just like somebody who just wants to work in IT and like make money. I study with IT.
Speaker 5I use the example of the car dealership because the car dealers are like the most common type of millionaire in America and they're like overwhelmingly like a Republican interest group, and I just think of them as like maybe smart people, maybe to be the biggest car dealer in Macon, georgia or something, requires a lot of intelligence. But I wouldn't call that elite human capital either. It's a very sort of instrumental, uh, intelligence, um, and so, brianna, I mean that's like you know, I don't want to think about like everyone's, like who's this person leading? Okay, it's more of it's a spectrum. But, brianna, you're smart, you're your idea I don't know if I'm smart.
Speaker 1I make a lot of bad decisions.
Speaker 5You make you might make bad decisions, but they but you're smart. You can be smart and sort of foolish at the same time.
Speaker 3I feel like there's a key element of influence when it comes to elite human capital. Like you have to have a certain amount of influence. Is that a defining characteristic or am I like misreading on like the biggest element?
Speaker 5They usually do have influence because you know the smartest and most idealistic people usually have the biggest influence in society. But like if you're an artist who just wants to go live in the desert and, you know, dedicate your life to some grand project and nobody ever hears from you and you have no influence, I would still count that as elite human capital. That's just not the majority of them.
Speaker 1So I want to get into some spicier topics, richard. So I want to ask you seem like you have a real propensity for women with large body parts and I'm trying to ask you do you feel like you got enough milk as a child? What do you think is is like? What drives this?
Speaker 4what is?
Speaker 5driving this Because you got famous for making Sidney Sweeney kind of blow up on Twitter, Like that's it's sort of a thing where there is like a NASA's versus boobs debate and I'm like I participate in that debate. I reject it, wait did you know?
Speaker 4there's like surveys showing that, like, richer men prefer smaller breasts. Like the aristocratic elegance, you can go layers deep on this I'm sure you already know.
Speaker 5I'll tell you I have the taste of a poor man. This is one way. I am not only human, you have beautiful eyelashes.
Speaker 1Thank you, yes.
Speaker 4Like a feminine figure.
Speaker 5Well, that was very kind of you. Yes, and so.
Speaker 4He was stunned, briefly.
Speaker 5I do now. Yes, stunned, I'm just taking it in just from the source. I mean, it's just such an honor, yeah. So I think I'm saying what everyone's thinking basically. I think most men, when they're looking at someone like Sidneyney sweeney, um, they're thinking basically the things that I'm saying well, not even really saying, but sort of communicating, and I don't think the breasts is like I am not that I'm against breasts, but I'm not. Uh, it's not not, I don't favor it over other body parts more than anyone else I believe so.
Speaker 1So which is your favorite, though we're trying to get you on the record, I probably.
Speaker 5I probably like the s better. I'll be honest, but it's there's not an audience for it oh, we're all white.
Speaker 1That's so cruel, richard. No, I can't believe if I was trying to appeal to black twitter.
Speaker 5Maybe that's, maybe that's my next turn, but I've never had a black.
Speaker 1This is you're not going to get engaged. This is why you're supremacist, and it's not, it's too crude and it crude.
Speaker 5You know what? I do have to sort of take into account that I have sort of an elite human capital audience and they sort of cringe a little bit at the boob stuff. If I did ask, I couldn't be excited in the New York Times anymore. That's the cancellation. That's just the, you're gone. So, yes, why I focus on the breasts rather than the other stuff? That's just the. You know, you're, you're, you're gone. So, yes, that, why I focus on the breasts rather than the other stuff. I mean, that's a fascinating question. There's there's there's like complex, like strategic reasons that are based in sort of class and audience and race and all these other considerations.
Speaker 4Well, I think it's very vitalistic. It's like Nietzschean in a way, like you're embracing this like natural, yeah, these nerds are small like no, there's no evolutionary reason for that you're just trying to be.
Speaker 5You're just trying to be sophisticated you're just trying to pretend, like popeye's chicken doesn't taste good, and you're just lying it tastes good.
Social Media Algorithms and Audience Engagement
Speaker 1I'm sorry so do you spend your time on tiktok? Like you said, you got really famous a while back for posting a bunch of really really cool sorority videos, like Sorority Rush and these amazing dance routines. And I'm looking at this, I'm looking like those girls, their energy is just on point, the vibes are immaculate and you know like it's filling all the conservative men out there with some really aggressive contradictions. So I wanted to ask you do you just like log into TikTok and type sorority dance all?
Speaker 5day. Yeah, at this point. Yeah, but how?
Speaker 3do you find it? Yeah, where do they come from?
Speaker 5It's the algorithm. I don't type. I don't really. I usually don't search for anything. Sometimes I'll search for something that I know will be triggering, like black woman says why you?
Speaker 5shouldn't vote for Trump or something like that Just something that I know will get people upset on Twitter. But now the algorithm sort of knows what I like. It's a very efficient means of search, because maybe I will spend every two days I'll spend literally 15 minutes on it and just grab some stuff off there. Grab some stuff off there and yeah, I mean it's people. You know people respond to it. I mean some of it's just like there are like different kind of genres of this stuff. Right, there's just sort of girls dancing. I mean I started out just like there was some girl I thought was cute, I just watched her dance and then you know it takes you down the rabbit hole.
Speaker 4I guess it's very specific, it goes with your eyes.
Speaker 5China's very sophisticated. Those are your eyes are looking at for a while, and so yeah, you'll get.
Speaker 1You'll get. If you're more elite human capital, you'd be able to resist man, I'm telling you you'd be able to, I should believe, human capital.
Speaker 5You don't have to.
Speaker 4How do you, how would you get elon bucks? Then he's got a post, that's true, that's right.
Speaker 1So we had a team meeting and this is I'm going to embarrass Sky right now, but we're trying to get examples of your thirst traps and Sky is just complaining. She's like why do I have to keep scrolling back so far? It's because he's been swapping.
Speaker 3Yeah, come on.
Speaker 5Yeah, I have not been doing a lot of thirst traps lately. I got sort of. The election is a sort of depressing time and I've actually not been on Twitter as much because, like people are at their stupidest. It's like the stupid people like who often pay attention to politics. They wouldn't pay attention to a midterm or like an off year or something. They are so into it and they all have opinions and they're talking so much and they're just, they're just so dumb and this is like the most depressing time to pay attention to politics. It was fun because of the lead up to the election, but then, like after we had the result, it's just like the stupid people are still. They're like at the after party and they're like really drunk. They're just like more unbearable than they were before we've had the election there was a reason for being here, so I haven't been on twitter a lot.
Speaker 5Um and uh, yeah, I mean, I'm trying to. You know I want I'm trying to. You know I want to. I'm trying to build my audience, but I also want a smart audience, and so I spent a lot of time on the essays and but they're both, they feed into each other because, like even the thirst traps, there was a girl who messaged me who's very smart and she's like you know I, you know I don't like all the stuff you post about girls, but like that's the way I found you right and I'm like okay, well even if you get, like you know, 900 000 people who look at you and they're all you know, brain damaged.
Speaker 5You know, if you get five or ten percent who are smart, you're still turning over and you're getting a high quality audience. The people who are not high quality often don't end up following me, for they become confused and scratch themselves.
Speaker 1But I I think it's interesting. Like, look, I'm not. I mean I I enjoy watching like girls dancing, that's cool, but like it's interesting. Like, look, I'm not. I mean I enjoy watching like girls dancing, that's cool, but like it's not, I have a different reaction to it. I find it really interesting to look at the, because I'm not in those spaces with conservative men where I hear these conversations about how they feel about this stuff. Feel about this stuff. I just in a billion years would never think a thought like how dare my daughter go dance in a TikTok video? That's just crazy to me. But there are a lot of conservatives out there that think that way. So I actually find scrolling your mentions on this to help me understand the other half of the country, if that makes sense.
Speaker 5You know, I've never seen so people. People say I would be ashamed of my daughter. See, I've never. I check, I must check my mentions less than you because I've never seen that reaction, but that's.
Speaker 1Oh my God, it's there, it's there.
Speaker 4I mean that was my strategy too Just like post sexy photos online and eventually people like find my essays where I'm talking about democracy, and then they stick around and I just like talk to them all day.
Speaker 5So which one are you? Are you t? Which one is you with t? Is that my deal with?
Speaker 4yeah, that's me, yeah, that's you.
Speaker 5Well, I don't know about your essays taff, you should send me. You should send me them.
Speaker 4I should, yes, you should, y'all should be officially following back let's go, let's go, the Hanania follow there.
Speaker 1We go now ta a lead human capital it's very exciting.
Speaker 4You've just jumped up.
Speaker 1It's very exciting. So I want to ask you a really hard question Do you know the person in project, like you were a co-author on project 2025. Do you know the person that wrote that they are going to end transgender ideology? And could you ask them if we're going to be put in camps? Because that would be really helpful for me to plan for years.
Speaker 5You could probably go down the list and you could probably just find the person who seems most interested in trans issues and you could probably guess they probably wrote it.
Speaker 1What's in there?
Speaker 1I haven't actually looked at trans and gender ideology like all that kind of stuff Of which, like we agree with a lot of that on the show, but I think all of us would prefer not to. You know, like we don't want the government going. Like there is a real concern out there with the real ID system which does require a gender marker on there. That you know the Republicans are going to make a political project of forcing all of us to put them on our driver's licenses. So, like, do you know these people? Do you have any thoughts about that?
Speaker 5I am. I don't have strong relationship relationship with the social cons. I have more relationships with the people who are just sort of disgusted by transgenderism for secular reasons. I think that maybe more instinctual reasons, maybe that's a better word. Yeah, I mean, it's getting serious at the state level.
Speaker 5I mean they are banning I mean all forms of gender. I think it's probably not crazy that they could go after in some states they could go after even adult care, although we're a little bit far away from that. Yeah, I mean this issue did break a lot of conservatives' brains. I mean, whenever I do something like, whenever I something, it's like you get you know, it's predictable how people respond to different points you make.
Speaker 5Whenever I make a point about conservatives being stupid, conservatives being conspiratorial, the number one, most common response these are the people who don't know what a woman is Like. That's all they think. That is the own and you can never like. They feel no need to engage in self-reflection, like liberals believe that a man can give birth. You know a man can give birth and a woman can become a man. Therefore, you know, like we are just the same people and like all we need to do is like you know, once, once that cleared up the trans issue, then maybe we can, you know, talk about something else. And you know the trans activists are, to a large extent, I. You know they're like, I don't have like that big of a reaction like, oh, you guys can't, you know, you want to define women in a different, in a different way. I mean, I guess I do have a reaction, because you do need a word for like biological women, right, just say cis women is like it's pretty big it's not like I go through life and like people.
Speaker 5When I say woman, like people get upset, right, it's not a big thing, that's on your you know, that's that's you know, going on, like attacking you on a daily basis. I think it's just like the sign, it's just like the one thing where, like the average man, like the guy you know, the Joe Rogan listener is just like these people are insane. And if it was just more like, okay, like you know. You know we talked about this, brianna, when you were on the podcast. We talked about like there's a you know, there's a case rooted in biology. You can say the fact that you can have a man in a woman's body and vice versa implies there's differences between men and women, that men and women exist. So you know, if the transsexuals took the transsexual movement or whatever, took that sort of more sane approach, I think people would understand it. I don't think people would care all that much.
Speaker 1Richard, we're trying so hard I mean I did Pierce Morgan, it came out yesterday to try to push it around on this. I've got Washington Post piece coming out on this. You know trigonometry. I have taken on so much hate from my own side trying to steer it back to sanity.
Speaker 1So, I agree with you, but it's also true. I mean, kelly, you deal with these people too. Gender criticals are just bigots, like, and you know I was thinking about this today. I was thinking about some of the.
Speaker 1I'm thinking of a very specific person in the gender critical movement that I got to know a lot during Gamer Geek and she was so extreme that 2010 era feminists kicked her out of our movement, like because she was so crazy and you could not work with her, and she's one of the lead gender critical people now. She just hates men. That's 100% what it's about for her, and I guess something I would love to warn conservatives about is be really careful about giving these people that have made their identity about destroying trans people too much power, because it's ultimately about hating men, and these are literally the same people in the Me Too movement that wanted to destroy people's careers without investigating any of the allegations. They're coming after y'all next, and it will be porn next, and it will be like it's ultimately this ideology that sees all men as sexual predators that need to be, like, marginalized. So I don't know, know, I'm really worried about that yeah, I mean I have noticed like these.
Speaker 5You know it's in the united states, I guess this is a bigger thing in britain.
Speaker 1These like turfs that's not really much of a thing in the us.
Speaker 5Apparently they're everywhere and they tell everyone what to do in the uk and that's why the trans movement has not made as many advances, but it's at the expense of having these lunatic feminists everywhere and there's a yeah. I mean I noticed on Twitter, like the ones who are like a lot of these, like gender critical, who are the biggest, like you know, sort of hysterics about the trans issue, are also like the people who talk about like age gaps and are just like so offended. I saw this one woman. She's Canadian or something no-transcript.
Speaker 3Second, that, like I go out in normal society or whatever you know, just living my life. It's so rare that I would ever encounter someone that's that extreme or like really pushing like this biological rigidity that like everything needs to be based around, if anything. I feel like there's still a lot of like public sentiment here, but I do worry that it's gained traction in the Republican party that let Trump, like the Republicans, really weaponize this. I feel like it like a lot of the I don't want to say it's like manufactured hate, but it's sort of like it's a lot of scapegoating that I've seen Like a lot of just like this is what we want you to see for. Like trans people.
Speaker 3Like there was an ad that Trump ran that was just all about like I can't do it justice, but it just it was literally just harping on the trans issue and it did so well and it was like they made an issue out of. You know they took the, they took they, they exposed a weakness, I'd say in the liberal side, in the progressive movement that you know Kamala is not willing to take aggressive stances against the trans movement and where it's gone, and so they're exploiting that and they're taking full advantage of that and they just, you know, flash up, let's say, a picture of leah thomas and be like this is what you know progressives want, or something like that, when it's not, it's not an accurate depiction, but they can prey on the fear and then trump gets an office, and so it's like you know how, what? What is the direction here like? How do we recover from this?
Speaker 5yeah, I mean it wasn't just one ad. I mean this was a comment, this was a ad that they I mean this was a theme the trans women in sports. It was a theme that they really really kept hammering and like look, I think you have to sort of I know you, I know you women know that. You are sort of you're a minority, you're historically.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's what makes us hot, I think been treated well.
Speaker 5That's what makes us hot, I think variation, of course, throughout history, you know gay people, you know much less. Uh, trans people have not been, uh, have not been treated well and I think that there's just, like you know, you have to sort of find a way. You have to like understand that like it works. Like you know you could go rationally to people and say, like you know, women, trans women in sports, like high schools, how many, how often is that? You know you could go rationally to people and say, like you know, women, trans women in sports, like high schools, how many, how often is that? You know how common is that they're winning medals and so forth? Since when do you care about women swimming? Like no one really knows any name of any female swimmer except Leah Thomas.
Speaker 5I mean, it's sort of funny. So, like you know, whatever vote on the economy or war and peace or things like that, but you have to sort of take into account human nature, that people already are primed to scapegoat people who are sexually nonconforming, right, and so that's why the trans movement needs to sort of and the LGBT movement and liberals in general, they need to take that into account and not seem like they're insane, because America, it's not impossible that you can have a society that has gay or trans acceptance. I mean I think they managed to do it in Northern Europe. I mean it's you know societies get there. I mean we're on the right, we're on the right path. I mean this is sort of the you know, sort of the story of human progress, expanding circle of empathy and all that.
Speaker 5You just, but you just have to just be very cognizant that, like you are, you know it's, it's a you know, like they're a spark. Can really stuff go up like I thought you know they may be? I think I thought, and a lot of people thought, like gay marriage and all that other stuff was like settled, but the stuff, anti-gay stuff you see on twitter, um, that you see, um, you know, in the last, like since they had free speech, it was always blatant, it's always there. When I was a kid, even when I was in college, people would be like, oh, some people say that it was becoming uncool to call someone gay if they were lame or something, just gay to say lame.
Speaker 5So when I was a kid, when I was 15 or something, that was normal. When I got 20 in college this is the early 2000s people were like. People like, oh, you shouldn't use gay to just means you know somebody's stupid or lame. So I thought, okay, this is gonna go in like 10 years, nobody's gonna use gay to say stupid or lame, and like it's just everywhere now.
Speaker 1Now you go our word has come back, richard, it's insane.
Speaker 5Yeah, yes, I mean we've cycled back to that. It is just like it's so hard to sort of get there and, like you know, people who people who are who care about gay rights, who care about trans rights, really need to like understand that, like you don't have the, you don't have the luxury of going insane. And like having Leah Thomas. You don't have that luxury of like letting me, letting these, you know this more exuberant, this more kind of extreme form of your ideology take over, because society won't put up with it.
Speaker 4Well, I want to ask you about that I want to ask if you see a parallel between the kind of trans women stuff and I really think that there's a kind of religious fervor on the left and a desire to redefine these terms but I wonder if you see a parallel between that and some of the weird right-winger stuff that you see on Twitter, where, like left-wingers, high IQ left-wingers are very good at coming up with sometimes very bizarre arguments for things that are totally nonsense or philosophically bankrupt and which really just bother lots of people. And it seems like you have the exact same thing kind of in the right wing, where people will just sort of spin their wheels, generating bizarre or nonsensical justifications which really are just like fundamental to maybe just like an impulse or an aesthetic taste within them yeah, you know, I think that there was that.
Speaker 5You know I've always traced the great awakening people. You've all seen those charts where, like all these terms go up in the new york times and washington um, systemic racism and so forth.
Reflecting on Political Polarization and Extremism
Speaker 5I've always thought that it just perfectly lined up, uh, to when twitter took off. So it starts around 20, you know, 11, 2012. That's about when twitter takes off. It sort of works perfectly. Like, these liberals just get together and they radicalize each other and everyone can try to cancel everyone else, and so, like, both had this era where, like, a lot of mentally unwell people were just online all the time and just going crazy and making everyone else crazy. And then, you know, elon musk buys, buys, twitter. And now it's it's the other other side's, the other side's turn. And yes, I've been on twitter. I mean, I was. I was, like, you know, sort of a dangerous person under the old regime. Like, like I had these suspensions that were just ridiculous. I mean, if I was a left-wing person, there was no way I would have had these suspensions. I've written about them in detail. They're just so, so stupid. And now I'm sort of a little bit.
Speaker 1I'm privileged in the new Twitter. I don't know what I'm saying it switched.
Speaker 5I mean I'm saying, but I'm saying recently it's switched and now it's like I can see that, like, right-wingers are advantaged and so, like the craziest people, don't get lopped off. The crazy, like you know, Fuentes and like Alex Jones, they would all get kicked off had problems. Anyone who tried to be a mini Fuentes or a mini Alex Jones would get kicked off. Now it's like they're all there, the left-wing people, the crazy people. They're just demoralized. Some of them. They can get banned, they can worry, but they have that worry too. These kind of Twitter is an unhealthy. Twitter's been good to me, but it's an unhealthy ecosystem. Any side that's not being censored is going to go crazy. Sure.
Speaker 4There's this kind of like mob, psychosis, which people will engage in they're just people. They resonate with these like emotional ideas, they really connect with them and it's sort of they work each other up. But then you move away from what is like true and real and into this world of like custom or religion, and I think that is like so dangerous when you get away from reality, left Like Jesus knows I've done it plenty.
Speaker 1I've got plenty of like issues with the woke stuff, but like, let's have a real discussion about the Republican Party and the state of the Republican Party. You know it was an insanely high number of people that do not believe the 2020 election was real. You have a party with an insanely high number of people that were willing to believe the Ray Epps thing at the Capitol and a whole bunch of stuff about January 6th and I'm not saying this because I don't want productive relationships with Republicans, but there is a penchant for insanity. And now, as Trump's picks are coming out, you know, I'm sorry, tulsi Gabbard in charge of DNI, that is literally insane. You know RFK in. You know in charge of. You know basically what was it? Was it?
Speaker 1HHS he's in charge of. Yeah, like this is really really really crazy concerning stuff. So I guess it's like why do you think a so much more of the discussion ends up being about the crazies on the left side, which we both agree are a problem? And I guess my second question is like what mechanism is there to stop the Republicans from descending into madness? Because I feel like we've seen this show before and it doesn't end up well.
Speaker 5Yeah, I mean you're right. I mean the reason we get more sort of discussion, self-reflection of the left is because you guys engage in, because the left engages in self-reflection. I mean the right is a sort of it's a personality called, and it's always been like this to a certain extent. I mean george w bush, I mean ran on the idea that you know we're not going to do nation building and then he did all these things in iraq and they all became like all the people who like love trump.
Speaker 5Now, um, not all of them, but like a lot of them, most of them, the big media figures like you know. You know Ann Coulter, lauren Grum and even Tucker and so forth. They were big terror warriors. They wanted to catch the liberals. Now they all pretend like they will always against these, you know, forever wars that the liberal establishment just forced and foisted upon us. So you know, conservatism has always been like this. Trump took it like to 11. I mean it was the sort of environment was there to be taken over by Trump and he just took it to a different level. We've seen more education polarization, where college educated go more Democrat and the less college educated go Republican and then even more so in like its functioning institutions, media, academia, and so yeah, I mean it's a problem. This is sort of a cycle and I wonder I did not predict that the trump picks were going to be this crazy.
Speaker 1There's a funny, very funny video I think there was a clip going around today really calling you out on this yeah saying that you would, I believe uh say you regret your trump vote if rfk was put into power. So I want to ask you do you regret your vote for donald trump?
Speaker 5yeah, so I was, yeah, I was on, uh, you know the stream with destiny on, yeah, election night and it wouldn't look like it was trump was gonna win and you know it's like. It's like at the point, like, do I regret my? It's like I, I could be like 55 percent trump, 45 kamala, and I could change my mind the next day. I feel like you're really, it's like I am just so.
Speaker 4I feel similarly yeah.
Speaker 5What's the point If I tell you today I would vote Kamala 51. Next week I could change my mind. People would think I'm an idiot because I'm changing my mind.
Speaker 1People are too much into them, I find this a really dodgy answer, Richard, if I can say so.
Speaker 4I made a similar argument to Brianna. Hold on, hold on. I was in the same boat.
Speaker 1Neither of you worked on Project 2025. That is a high-level Republican heritage operation. I know people at Heritage. Come on, Richard, Like you're talking to me.
Speaker 3That is a club that has a very specific environment and a fundraising apparatus.
Speaker 1You have to have certain attitudes to get into the door there like you just do so and you're telling me you could flip flop on a dime. I just I.
Speaker 5You're my friend, I don't believe that let's hear about it.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5I was so wait, so your argument Brianna is that you think that because I was on Project 2025, I have to be you're predicting, I have to be loyal. I think it's hard for me to understand personally.
Speaker 1Now, it's been a long time since I've done anything with Heritage or worked with them. But you know, like I think, they have a certain person that they let into the door, that has a certain set of attitudes and it's just hard for me to believe you would not be Team Trump.
Speaker 5The gatekeepers are. The gate is much more wide open than you probably imagine.
Speaker 1It could have changed. It's been a long time so yeah, and it's good that you were in there, yeah.
Speaker 5And.
Speaker 1I mean.
Speaker 5But whatever I mean, even if I was like 100%, I mean I wasn't, I wasn't. You can go back, look at my writings. Whenever I was doing Project 2025, I was criticizing Trump for a very, very long time. I mean I was very, very. Maybe they don't pay attention, I don't know, but like that's, you know it's not, the vetting probably wasn't the best, or they just like me, uh, regardless, um, but you know, like, I think that you know, my argument before was, like the people from heritage, like I, I had the same sort of, I think, idea that you did this. It was the same kind of idea that like, look, it's going to be heritage and it's going to be project 24 five people.
Speaker 5It's gonna be like the american first policy institute, which you know has problems within a normal range of like, like you know, sanity. But that's not RFK people and that's not Tulsi Gabbard people and like Heritage would not have recommended Matt Gaetz, that would be too crazy.
Speaker 1Oh my God, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 5This has not been Heritage or Project 2025. This has been partly that in the appointments. So, at least on his appointment, people but appoint people but like you know, that's important. Uh, it's been like the lunatics. He's been on the campaign trail. It's been like you know, it's been like maha and uh, you know these people who have these, you know, alex, sort of the alex jones wing of the republican party, and that's a very bad sign. That's not what I was expecting.
Speaker 4That's the point of that really well, I made a similar argument to brianna, which is that that if you're going to vote for Trump, the reason to do that is you expect that once he's in power, trump's this kind of narcissistic buffoon on the campaign trail that appeals to a certain type of low human capital voter.
Speaker 4But once he gets in power, he's going to surround himself with people who are incredibly intelligent and who can write policy. Who are incredibly intelligent and who can write policy, and for me, like, the reason why I kind of can go either way on different days is because I'm doing this calculation about like which set of elites is ultimately going to be better, and not necessarily like the personality of Trump. So you know, cards on the table. I voted for Kamala Harris, but if I was going to vote for Trump, it was because I thought maybe he had this potential to surround himself with really good, very smart people who are going to meaningfully challenge the kind of establishment stuff but not go off the deep end. And so I don't know. I don't know what world we're in now.
Speaker 3I wanted to believe that too, but I'm thinking back to his last term and I'm like how many of them even lasted. Like Trump demands this loyalty complex. I don't know. Like I, that's how I see it, and it's just like that's why they all drop, like his cabinet, like everyone was. You know, no one stayed around. It was like it was just crazy. So I'm left wondering the same thing with RK.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah. I mean like, is this the same Trump? Or I don't think he is, but I'm like what degree of that loyalty is going to be necessary for?
Speaker 5these people like RFK to stick around in that cabinet. He is, you know, the first term. Yeah, he had these people who were sort of adults and they all ended up calling him Hitler and leaving and saying he was a fashion and it was so funny, it was like 46 cabinet and like 43 or something. The numbers were something like that like didn't support him in 2024. And that was, you know, a sign and I think he was sort of changing. You know, he's become drunk with power. I mean, he used to believe, you know, I think he used to understand that he was sort of in a coalition and over time it's like somebody's a dictator. You know, for 30 years they go insane. He's become like a dictator in the Republican Party. He's become like sort of like a mad king. He goes. I can appoint my daughter-in-law Laura Trump. I can make her, you know, the RNC chair. He doesn't show up to the 2024 primaries, he doesn't show up to the debates, he just wins every primary. He doesn't have to do anything and it's just the connection he has directly with the Republican base is just so strong that he's just become this kind of person who, you know, he can challenge them. Now he can say about the abortion, he can talk about things that you know. He can create some distance between him and conservatives in a way that he couldn't before, and so I think that's what we're seeing.
Speaker 5It's like who is RFk? Rfk is like not someone who has support among many conservative donors or historically yeah, but it's just like trump likes him because he likes trump, and like it's going to be like that. I mean, gates is only qualification. You see that clip with gates. You know I I stand up to nominate donald trump for speaker of the house. I mean just a ridiculous yeah, worship performance art and every Republican in Congress thinks Gates is crazy and they say they won't vote for him. And it doesn't matter because it's just all about the Trump cult now.
Speaker 4But you still voted for him. Yeah, and he still voted for him.
Speaker 5I know I mean I'm starting to see the error of my ways.
Speaker 4Just going back to that time, what were you?
Speaker 5thinking. Those are strategies. If Burgum was the VP, that's the break. Burgum is great, he just became Secretary of the Interior, so, who knows, trump might do great things and he might change my mind tomorrow. People look too much stock into who are you going to vote for. It doesn't matter, my ideas are what matter. Right'm gonna criticize company does bad things. If it was kamala, I would criticize her for bad things. It's not like okay, I've done this calculation, now I'm gonna give you okay, you should vote for proper, you should vote for kamala. It's the ideas that are important and I hope everyone who's uh, you know who's has influence on the right will listen to my ideas and people who have influence on the left will listen to my ideas. There, right, the who you're going to vote for thing. It's sort of a loyalty test. I think it distracts from what I can provide to people.
Thirst Trap Representation and Twitter Analysis
Speaker 1Fair enough, all right. So, richard, I want to get to a fun segment. One of the things that we, when you and I got to be friends, that kind of set things off a little bit is when I announced I was going on your show, I posted a picture of Hunter Schaefer and I posted this as an example of just trans women looking normal and hot. And, oh my God, did trans Twitter get angry at me? I can't remember what you said, but you were like no, that's a woman. Get angry at me. I can't remember what you said, but you were like now, that's a woman.
Speaker 1So I I have noticed so we're about to get woke here on the doll cast, I've noticed a stunning lack of representation in your thirst traps of the sisters. You don't have any sisters in your thirst traps. So we have brought you some options today and we have written some tweets in the style of, in your style, and we would like to propose this to you. So we're going to put this up on screen right now. Look, uh, look on your twitterms. Okay, so what? What is what? What is your analysis of this? Aesthetically, is this good, richard like?
Speaker 4yeah, break it down.
Speaker 5Break it down to us what happens if you're considering making a thirst trap tweet about this usually, um, I like to have more to work with in terms of I like videos or TikToks or something. Unless it's like Sydney Sweetie, if someone's famous, you can have a little bit more room. It's hard to just take a photo of somebody. Look, she looks Asian Really.
Speaker 4She looks like Southeast Asian, maybe she looks like a ladyboy.
Speaker 5This looks like a case for more immigration visas, exactly.
Speaker 4Only for the hot ones.
Speaker 5What do I have to work with? I have race. I have big boobs. Is that a cross? No, it's not a cross that might be interesting to work with. Yeah, she's very pretty. Are you going to tell me she's?
Speaker 1I didn't get the picture. Uh, was this utah? What's that? Was this one of yours, taff? Oh, no, I not me. I'm pretty sure she's probably skylar who sent this guy, it's very pretty passing obviously yes, obviously, yes, obviously, Okay, so here is the copy we wrote for you so bad. Conservatives need to embrace their inner desires. Sometimes the best way to fight the woke is with raw, unapetic attraction.
Speaker 5Wow, I'm sorry that doesn't. That's funny. That's my best that's.
Speaker 1That's me trying to emulate you, so I guess I did she said she could write your essays earlier, by the way, yeah, I mean, you know it's not, it's.
Speaker 5It's too it sexual. You want sexual, but you don't want to just say this is sexual, so you don't want to say what did you say? Something like raw, like. I would not go that explicit.
Speaker 4Imagine her as your milkmaid.
Speaker 5You say something like that Like, yeah, like a man, and you can think of a situation where, like, she would be sexually attractive and she would be around and she would be available, and you would fill in the blanks, you would fill in the picture in your own head.
Speaker 1No, I get it.
Speaker 5You can tie that into immigration or economics or something else. But just to go beat the wokes with raw sexual attraction, go have sex with these trannies, Okay so it's too vitalistic.
Speaker 1That makes sense to me.
Speaker 3I feel like because, of the immigration angle.
Speaker 1This is a good option, so I'm going to give you another one right now. We'll edit the pauses out, all right, I think she this is I think she's the prettiest, in my opinion.
Speaker 4I'm eager to see.
Speaker 5Not my type, honestly. Not your type I don't mind fake, but there's a Do we know her. I mean, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
Speaker 1No, no, no, I don't know her.
Speaker 5Okay. Yeah, the lips are too much. I don't mind fake some things, but the lips are just. I don't know. Lips have to look natural to me. It's my own aesthetic preference, so it's the lip thing. But you know she's pretty.
Speaker 1She's so cute, oh my God.
Speaker 5She's cute in like a little sister kind of way, Little brother sister.
Speaker 1Let's get a little sister kind of way, little brother sister, all right, let's get a little more exotic give me representation, sister, so we're gonna get a sister here oh, these are all trans women dude. Oh no, I thought you were. I thought they're all like yeah, sisters is what we call.
Speaker 4Other trans girls, oh okay, we adopt a lot of black culture. Yes, we do.
Speaker 5Yeah, she's getting dropped off to college on her first day.
Speaker 1She's got the girls out. I don't think she's getting dropped off to college.
Speaker 5It was zipped up before her dad dropped her off.
Speaker 4Now it's coming down.
Speaker 5Now she's out on the town. Yeah, I don't know A tweet. Videos are for the tweets.
Speaker 1I got some trans girls to make some videos for you. I did send a video. Okay, yeah, wait.
Speaker 4Taff, you should send a video. No, I sent it to you. It's in your.
Speaker 5This is one where you could say imagine caring if she has a penis. You could do it like that. It wouldn't be that explicit. It would be like imagine caring about something as silly as chromosomes, in a situation she's sitting next to you. You could do that.
Speaker 1Okay. I dare you to do that I dare you to do that.
Speaker 5All right, you want me to do it now. You want to just go out there and see it? Yeah, I do, yes.
Speaker 1I do Look at our fourth option, and then you can make up your mind. Ok, so here's one more.
Speaker 5OK, this has sort of this has Game of Thrones. This is kind of. I'm watching first season of Game of Thrones again. This has a denarius look. This has a conquering feel. This is the best combination of male and female right, Because you have the muscles.
Speaker 1What there looks male to you, oh the stomach. What there looks male to you, oh the stomach? Yeah, okay, I see Muscularity, that's fair.
Speaker 5I don't mind that. I think that muscle is good. Yeah, I mean even the shoulders and the chest. Some guys are so worried about being gay they don't like any muscle on women. I don't agree with that. Actually, I just stare at the belly button really closely. Yeah, I see men's health.
Speaker 1I see men's health there, but it's okay all right, I dare you to tweet this, and then we'll put the video out about the story behind the tweet okay, uh, let me see, let me see. Chromosomes. It's such a privilege to see how the magic happens.
Speaker 3I know I'm getting an inside scoop this is amazing.
Speaker 5Okay, now I'll do it in a question, because I don't want to be that aggressive with this one.
Speaker 3How important are chromosomes really? Oh?
Speaker 5Really, once you've found what you're looking for.
Speaker 1Yes, double entendre, I like that.
Speaker 5Actually the fact check. This is a trans woman, we are certain.
Speaker 3Yeah, we are certain.
Speaker 5Oh really, Once you've found what you're looking for.
Speaker 1See, you don't even believe it.
Speaker 5Well, I'm a very important. You know. Fact checking is very important to me. I try to differentiate myself from the low human capital shared fake news. If I got that wrong I would be very upset.
Speaker 1Okay, Source trans women said so be.
Speaker 5Just like you know it's ambiguous. There's like you want to get the debate going because, like there's like you want like four different things. People can debate and if you're really smart you can usually figure it out, but if you're not, you're just confused and debating in the comments, which is good for the elon bucks.
Speaker 1So I do believe kelly is our little firecracker on the show. I do believe she found an older tweet of yours she wanted to talk about today.
Speaker 2I didn't even have it like prepared. I just found like an old screenshot of like I can pull it up where you reply to somebody.
Speaker 5Here's Taff.
Speaker 1I've got it right here If you want me to read it.
Discussion on LGBTQ+ Terminology and Attraction
Speaker 2I think. Yeah, I just found it. You said people say you were replying to matt walsh about a video he did to dylan malvani and you said people say this is mean. I think the situation calls for brutal honesty. You want to transition? We wouldn't lie to you. You'll be the ugliest woman in the world, people will be sickened and you'll need a censorship regimen to make them suppress it. No, before, I just want to like. I just want some context, I guess.
Speaker 5I mean, you know it is what it is. I think it's. I don't think the context helps. I there's truth in there and there are like women who transition and they look like look, if you're going to become, if you're going to present as the sex opposite you're born, you are going to sort of inspire something in people that is, you know, you're going to bring it out Like I'll be honest with you trans women do not. I don't have that reaction to trans women. When I see a biological woman with a beard, I'll admit it drives me up the crazy Like.
Speaker 5I have this instinct and some guys, some people. I think, have that. I just love women so much that if you sort of are in the shape of a woman, I'm just I'm happy. It's sort of the opposite where it's sort of frightening. You know, and so like that's true, and so like, and like I think what I would change from that and you know, when and when was this it?
Speaker 5was maybe like do you have the date on that? I don't, I couldn't, it was just a screenshot. I found it was at least two or three years whenever Dylan Mulvaney was in the news. I would put the emphasis, like people should just get used to it, and I actually I stood up to Dylan Mulvaney when this was going on and I did say that Dylan Mulvaney was sort of fun and nice and like why are you people putting bullets in beer cans? You're sort of a bunch of lunatics, and so I would sort of change the emphasis.
Speaker 5I think I've seen it with like the craziness of the right. I see them go after surrogacy, I see the Dobbs stuff and what's happening with the States and I'm just like much less sympathetic to like these people's gut instincts, because like I have these gut instincts but like I don't have these gut instincts about the things that they do, like abortion and euthanasia and like surrogacy and all that other stuff. Um, so yeah, there's, there's truth in that, but I think my sort of attitude on this issue has changed over time so do you think trans women are a kind of woman like how do you classify us?
Speaker 5you know, I'm like like it's words, I mean words are words like you know, you say is this person a liberal? Look, we need a word.
Speaker 1The word is trans woman.
Speaker 5The word is trans woman. Yeah, I'm fine with that. I mean we can call them women. I'm fine with using pronouns. I see no reason to say I am standing up for biological reality, philosophical stance, by saying you are he and you are she and you know, and so forth. If you want to, you know he and you are she and you know, and so forth. If you wanted to, you know, if you had some kind of pronoun that was like completely different, I mean that would be, I think, weird. I think that's like an imposition. But, brianna, it's natural for me to call you she, it's not. I would have to work, I would actually have to work hard to call you he, like I would have to go out of my way to troll people. Any of you. I mean, you all look like women. I forget, I don't like. It's not on the top of my mind that you have penises. If you still have penises, it's not something that I think about with talking to you, not all of us.
Speaker 1So yeah, I mean, this is like If you had to guess which of us had penises. I want to know.
Speaker 5Can you tell me how many do and how many don't, and I can go.
Speaker 1Two don't, two do Okay. So you, how many don't? And I can go Two don't two do.
Speaker 5Okay, so you said you don't Brianna, so one of you doesn't and two of you do. I feel like Kelly, I think doesn't. I don't no, and you other two do.
Speaker 4That's correct. Yeah, guilty, nailed it in one Impressive.
Speaker 3You had it easy with process of elimination.
Speaker 5Come on yeah well I did, but still I had one of three chance of guessing right.
Speaker 4What was the thinking going into it?
Speaker 5Taff. Is that how you go by? Yeah, you are. I think you're more transhumanist, so I think you would want to combine the male and female, and I think that I think that Kelly I think she was more sort of feminine. It would be like an easier decision. Like I, you know, I feel less conflicted. So I want to go all the way and get bottom surgery and then and so I thought you were Taff was most likely to have a penis. I thought kelly was the least likely, and then, you know, just because two um, I started with your name- skyler, yeah, skyler.
Speaker 5So I said yeah skyler has one one also that's fairly good analysis that's pretty good.
Speaker 3Yeah, bring it down that's uh.
Speaker 5I feel proud of myself, I feel like I feel like I saw something that's astonishing.
Speaker 1You have a gift. You have a gift to lead your life into the world.
Speaker 5Richard, scientifically, you need to give me more pictures of trans women. I should probably need to see them talking and stuff. I need to see it. There's a really hot video.
Speaker 1There's a really hot video. Taff took a while back and I may jot that into your folder, with her permission, for you to consider.
Speaker 4I don't know what this is. I did send you a video jokingly.
Speaker 5Okay, so should I play that, or is that our secret? Yeah?
Speaker 4sure you can play it Are we going to.
Speaker 5Let's see what this is.
Speaker 3The face. I love it.
Speaker 4What's going through your mind, what's going through your?
Speaker 1mind. What's going through your mind when she sees this?
Speaker 5Just half sticking out her tongue. Is that where?
Speaker 1we're looking at.
Speaker 5Very nice If I was not on the show.
Speaker 4I would submit it to get the Hanania review.
Speaker 5Yeah, you've got the look. You've got this sort of bored teenage girl thing.
Speaker 4Yeah, that's what I was going for. You've nailed it.
Speaker 1We have a question. We ask everyone Do you think traps are gay?
Speaker 5Do I think who is gay?
Speaker 1Traps are gay.
Speaker 5What are traps?
Speaker 4You heard this great meme Is it gay to be attracted to trans women?
Speaker 3Yes.
Speaker 5You know it's? I don't think so. No, I mean, if that was your thing.
Speaker 5If that was your thing, just to be interested in trans women, I think so, because that's pretty specific. But it's yeah, it's no as a general matter, I would say not. You know it's no as a general matter, I would say I would say not. It depends on sort of what you want the trans woman to do to do to you, right? I mean, there are some things that the trans woman could do to you that would probably be gay and other things that are not. It probably does depend on that sort of the nature of like what you want done and what you, what you want.
Speaker 4If you're the active partner, not gay. It's very Greek of you.
Speaker 5What goes you and who is the recipient and who is the? I mean all of this it's sort of uh, there's some things where some axiom and commits where you have to be gay, I mean you, just, you, just I think so, I think so it's not gay as long as you call it a sheenus, yeah your boyfriend and say, yeah, I'm not gay.
Speaker 2now I think it's gayer to be into non-binary people, to be honest.
Speaker 4Hot take. What was it? I'm sorry.
Speaker 5I was kidding.
Speaker 2I was just saying I think it's gayer to be into non-binary people.
Speaker 5That's gay in the colloquial sense. We need a word for that.
Speaker 1Gay and non-binary attracted people in the colloquial sense. Yeah, that's like we need a word for that, mm-hmm.
Speaker 5Gay and non-binary attracted people yeah.
Speaker 2Do you?
Speaker 4ever see like the towel boy memes on right-wing Twitter? Do you ever see those? Oh my God, okay, well, okay, I want to ask you this just in general, but I don't know how much you follow like the Bronze Age pervert kind of crowd, um, because I was going to recommend you read selective breeding the birth of philosophy. But they, they're obsessed with the towel boy thing and being nude bodybuilders who have sex with maybe feminine young men or maybe women. It's, it's mysterious yeah, I don't.
Speaker 5I don't know. Like you know, I've seen these pictures of these bat meetups and Maybe feminine young men or maybe women. It's mysterious. Yeah, I don't know, I've seen these pictures of these BAP meetups and they're always these short, stout Indian guys. I mean, there is a kind of fantasy. These people are warriors and they're not actually in real life. So that world I don't know whether to take anything seriously. It just all seems like they're locked from top to bottom. It is. It's very I don't know like whether to take anything seriously. It just all seems like I love from top to bottom it is.
Speaker 4It's very like, I don't know. It's very romantic, it's very artistic in a way, I mean like yeah, well, I think he's a romantic. He's like very uh, I mean romantic in like the philosophical sense, like uh, very much someone of passions, and you know he gets away a little bit from the rational analytical stuff you think of bronze age mindset. It's kind of like a work of art more than science.
Speaker 5I think he needs to. You know we talked about sort of being fresh and evolving. He needs to, like I don't know, I read both of his books and I used to like check out his timeline but like there's I don't see progression and it's a performance art but it needs to progress, it needs to change with the times and and so I was hoping that would come out and, like, I don't know, do something in real life. But he sort of you know he does it. It sort of seems like it's a, it's a shtick, that sort of run its course. I don't want to say it's run its course, but, like you know, I think it needs to sort of. I think it needs some sort of innovation in that community.
Speaker 4Yeah, what would you do if you were him? How would you handle it?
Speaker 5How do you inject freshness into it? I can only be, I would. Yeah, I mean, it's hard because he's got this image, like I think he's got this image where he was for a very long time this, oh, I'm this international man of mystery and, like you know, I don't know who I am, and then, like you know, he's basically doxxed, you know, comes out and then it's like what do you do? Like I think he's like got this thing where it's like you can't sort of seem like I'm very, I think, relatable, like people feel like they can yell at me and like talk to me and so forth. I'm sort of down to earth and I'm in the comments section and I'm, you know thing where he's here and that's fine if you're a dictator or something, you could do interesting things with that, but he's a character, right, and so what he does from there, I don't know, because it's risky. He can't just come and make a dork of himself once in a while, because it breaks the character.
Speaker 4Yeah, he's sort of strangled, and that's what's different. Maybe himself once in a while, because it breaks the character.
Speaker 5Yeah, he's sort of strangled by it, and that's what's different. Maybe he should become a leftist. Maybe he should do what I do. Yeah, the real, the ones who accept transsexuals, are the left, the effeminate men. I want to have relationships with them and the left will. Let me do that. That would be funny, but he's not going to do that. He's actually a conventional sort of right-winger who just thinks immigration is the biggest issue and all politics should be judged through that lens. He even says in Bronze Age Mindset, like at the end he's like oh, support Ann Coulter and Pat Buchanan and Victor Orban. He mentions Orban I don't know if he mentions Ann Coulter and Buchanan but basically says like support anyone who wants to stop immigration. And so it is a kind of like at its root. It is a kind of white nationalist, nativist worldview, and so if you're that, then you can't go. You can't go left, because your sort of focus is very narrow.
Speaker 5So I don't know, I don't think he's just a performance artist, right? I think he believes things so like I can't say like what he should do without saying, without saying what would be consistent with his.
Speaker 1So, richard, I ask you, why do people think you're a white supremacist and a Nazi? What's going on with that?
Speaker 5I used to write things that sounded like that.
Speaker 1Like what, like what? What did you say?
Speaker 5Like bad things.
Speaker 1Like what, like what. Give me an example.
Speaker 5I wrote that maybe we should. I basically wrote for race you know, immigration restriction as policies. I did write some things that the quote that people always use is about, like maybe we should sterilize all these people. I didn't say that it was. It was more of a hypothetical, theoretical kind of thing. But you know it was a good interpretation. And yeah, I was. You know, I was like friendly to like a kind white nationals as a check on wokeness, I believe 12 years ago.
Speaker 1Have you ever had an interracial relationship? Yeah?
Speaker 5Yeah, I think it's hot.
Speaker 1I'm really not that into white guys to be honest with you. I think Asians that would be guys to be honest with you, like I think Asians that's that would be, that's a unique preference, but yeah, I mean that's great.
Speaker 5It's great, people have different preferences.
Speaker 2I do, I would never. I'm like white guy, obsessed Really.
Speaker 4Really.
Speaker 2Really, is that racist? I feel like people would say that's racist of me.
Speaker 4I think it's kind of common actually.
Speaker 5No, Kamala lost. I think we're open to new ideas.
Speaker 1You can say anything now. What is interesting about white guys to you?
Speaker 3I just, I don't know, I really don't know, I just like white guys, I would never date a black man or an Asian man or an Indian.
Speaker 2I would always go for white guys.
Speaker 5Where does whiteness end? Does he have to be Nordic?
Speaker 2No American, Only American.
Speaker 4Oh, so not European.
Speaker 1You wouldn't think so.
Speaker 2No, I like people that are from America. I don't know.
Speaker 5That's an interesting preference. Yeah, that is interesting. What about an Armenian American?
Speaker 2I guess I'd have to like see a video of like this person and their accent to know exactly what, because I don't really know what you guys mean by that.
Speaker 5Like I'm having the caucus in a gold chain no, oh my god, I mean I hate and that weird jewelry too.
Attraction and Stereotypes in Dating
Speaker 2I can't like that Okay.
Speaker 1I feel like I've got to make the case for Asian men. Okay, Number one very little body hair. I really appreciate that. Smart, above average earners they tend to. They are adventurous. Typically they are in and they're put together Like so I don't know, I think Asians, I that's the way to go, put together, you mean like sort of stable and yeah, yeah, they've got their stuff together yeah, I don't know if that's what women like.
Speaker 5That's not exciting, I think, to a lot of women. Yeah, I think it is to some women, but not not all of them.
Speaker 4So a lot of women like more masculine traits, so like, if you look at the dating statistics breakdown, it turns out that women tend to prefer men of their own race, but also slightly prefer like white and black men, and for men, men tend to prefer like Asian women and white women and that's kind of like broadly true over a lot of different ethnicities of men. But some of the hypothesis for why is kind of the opposite of what you're saying, brianna, where like the idea is that, from you know a white woman's vantage point, she might see an Asian guy as being like more feminine because he has less body, hair and therefore like less sexually dimorphic.
Speaker 1So there's like less attraction there, which is why asian men sometimes feel like they're kind of left out of the dating pool no, no, like you met my husband, he's got this energy of like a mongolian that just crawled over the wall and is about to take on the entire army, like I was gonna say he's like a puppy, like he's very sweet yeah but he's actually a mongolian conqueror, yeah oh yeah, oh yeah, I'll tell you stories later, yeah well, we all know why men prefer asian women.
Speaker 4Like, let's be real why do they prefer asian women? Yeah, why, oh my?
Speaker 2god, because they're smaller, because they look more like innocent, like I mean not to say all men, I don't think like all men are predators. I know that's like a topic that got slightly brought up, but I mean there's a reason. Like teen is like the top category on adult websites, and then it's like asian women that look young as fuck, like let's be honest richard, where's your ranking?
Speaker 1where's your ranking? Yeah?
Speaker 5uh, as far as uh women go, favorite races, either I'll listen to either men or women uh, no, I I think women, yeah, I mean I think it's whites and I think whites and asians are really yeah you fall right into the. I really like I will say I do like variety and like, if I'm looking at like a certain kind of woman for a while, I want something else.
Speaker 5I mean I think this is normal for a lot of guys I think be um more than most and I think I'm probably uh um yeah, I would, yeah, I would say, like there's a, there's a, there's a nordic prototype, there's a southern european mediterranean prototype, there's an asian prototype.
Speaker 5Those are all beautiful and amazing, um, and then there's, like other women will also get like, to the extent they match, can match those or come close to those prototypes. Then, uh, that, that yeah, but like I can't choose between them. You understand, it's just sort of the variety is the most important thing see, I do like black women.
Speaker 4I think black women are gorgeous and like I mean it's like we were saying earlier in terms of like very curvaceous, um, like black women and latinas who like fall into that category, very much like the type of women that I find attractive.
Speaker 1So yeah, what about? This is my theory. What you were saying about men getting bored with stuff. This is my theory about why men get into trans women, because I think that, like they've seen, all the porn of the most instagrammed girls from the time they've hit puberty and I think at some point they want something a little bit more exotic, and that's what brings them to trans women's doors, in my opinion I think it feels like sort of like you can be yourself because you know they like video games yeah they're going to be more sexual, like you know.
Speaker 5I think there's part of that too, but yeah, a lot of it's just variation, right, it's just uh tricks with something, something extra yeah, I mean that is bad like most perversions. People are like oh, men are sick. Yeah, they just want different. Like different can take you into all kinds of directions I don't think that's true, oh, go ahead.
Speaker 4Yeah, oh well, I'll let you go in a second. There's this book, by like the act like google founder guy is called billion wicked thoughts and it talks about like why men might be attracted to trans women. I think one of the theories that they posit is that men, they just they're very visuals. They see like boobs and they see like feminine face and it doesn't really matter, like the exact context, like a guy could he could masturbate to like a curvy piece of driftwood, like it doesn't really matter, but when he sees like the penis, there's this like sexual competition response as well, and both of these responses exist simultaneously and so it like heightens the arousal to be like I fully I'm getting like the part of my brain that lights up when I see a naked woman is going, and then also there's a part of my brain which is like I need to compete with whatever is belonging. This owns this penis. So that was their theory about why.
Speaker 5You feel like you could win the competition too, because it's often shriveled.
Speaker 4Exactly. Yeah, You're like oh, I can totally dominate this tiny creature.
Speaker 1Yeah, I don't know. I think most men just want to be loved. I think that's really it. Of course, I think, because of the trauma, a lot of trans women especially ones into men, which are vanishingly rare these days, I don't know think like we're very loyal to our men.
Speaker 5So I think I think that's a lot of it I'm gonna tell my maybe I'll tell my followers to uh to consider trans women, I think, instead of uh, but you guys probably don't want the incels anymore.
Speaker 1I'm good. I'm good, my husband has a. Phd and makes a ton of money and is a science fiction celebrity. I don't need an incel, I'm good.
Speaker 4I think you should send your followers. Yeah, I think there's some nice trans women out there who would love to chat with me, and Narnia.
Speaker 5Even before you get to that, I I've been telling these guys, by the way, we've got like for this tweet I sent out. We've got 21 replies and 111 likes.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's not really good. I'm disappointed.
Speaker 5Yeah, 111 likes 10,000 or so views.
Speaker 1It'll be bigger.
Speaker 5This will be. Maybe this might reach six figures eventually. Anyways, yeah, I've been telling them to like you, you morons who are like anti-immigration, like before you even have to, you don't have to like you don't even have any trans women, you can just like there's a world out there of women who, like would just like die to come to America and you have like a lot of money. You know relative to them and like relative to them and like they're short, and maybe you're short and they're even shorter. There are some races that are very short and like, compared to american women, maybe you're, you're not, you're not tall enough, um, but no, like the incels are the ones who want to restrict immigration. Like, figure that out. It's just, it's completely irrational. I've been trying to sort of talk them into, into having a healthier attitude towards these things, so do you expect to do any work with the Trump administration.
Speaker 1Not like, not publicly Not publicly, so sort of a back channel thing.
Speaker 4But yeah, from behind you'll be puppeteering. Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 5Whatever I mean, I can say it, it's not going to matter. Some journalist is going to Nothing matters anymore. Gates, these crazy people. I feel like nothing can do anything. Yeah, I mean the civil rights stuff. That's the stuff they'll listen to me on. I'm sort of not in good standing. The economic views I have are going to be represented. Oh, the Israel stuff. Yes, I will be a voice on that.
Speaker 1Will you back channel? I would love to go to the White House and make the case for Trump on this executive order he's talking about signing. I would be on that he's talking about signing an executive order saying that your birth gender should be the only gender reflected in legislation, and federal documents should require that. I would love I'm working to back channel this so any help you can give me and yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 5We're gonna say there's a, there's something on israel that you want to talk about, and then that would talk about israel.
Speaker 1I would love to talk israel really bothers me that elon is uh trying to undermine our foreign policy by trying to uh talk to Iran's embassy.
Speaker 5That's really out of bounds. Yeah, I did see that I do have a little bit more. You know, I'm like sort of more open to talking.
Speaker 3But yeah, I mean I think we should.
Speaker 5Probably. You know the Iranian regime. Yeah, you're right. I mean it is kind of, but anyways, if you want to do something out of Israel, I think they would love to have this left-wing trans woman come to the white house and be alive.
Speaker 1Yes, I'll do that I'll talk to him.
Speaker 5I think that would be better, and then uh, yeah, I mean you can. You could maybe bring out, you can. Maybe, if you're talking to trump one-on-one, maybe you can charm him and he won't see what happens use your feminine wiles on him, yeah you're up against jenner.
Speaker 3You haven't, you haven't made, you're good I wonder if trump would be.
Speaker 5I wonder what trump would do if he was, like approached by a very attractive trans woman like I. I wonder it can go in either direction. People forget this.
Speaker 1He's in the miss universe um, the miss universe concert and back. I think this was 2002, um, because I was transitioning. At the time there was a big scandal where someone was in the Miss Universe contest and she was trans and he held this press conference to announce if he was going to let trans women participate in his contest. He came out in favor of it because she was insanely hot. So I think Trump thinks with with a very singular dimension, if you get my meaning well, he's a red-blooded american man yes, I think trump is just a attention hog, so that was a good way to get attention back in.
Speaker 5Yeah, but he stood by that position about trends and, uh, beauty pageants in the 2016. It was one of those things where, like people, like oh, this is gonna sink trump.
Speaker 1And then it didn't matter, because you know, nothing matters, it's just yeah, yeah, all right, we got another more of the show to get to. So, uh, we are going to say our goodbyes, but uh, I know, this is so fun yeah, absolutely anytime.
Speaker 5All right, it was fun guys thanks for coming.
Speaker 3Bye, bye, all right, that was great y'all. I had so much fun talking with you all me too thanks for hanging out.
Speaker 3Yes, oh, thanks for hanging out with us over here at doll cast. It's always a blast unpacking these topics. Make sure to subscribe on to our YouTube channel, dollcastr8n that's DollcastR8N for more content and follow us on TikTok at Dollcast for your daily dose of insight and laughter. You can also check us out on X at Dollcast Show. We can't do this show without your support. Until next time, stay fabulous. Ok, bree. This episode is.
Speaker 1Terminated.
Speaker 3Taff. This episode is Terminated. And Kelly, this episode is Terminated. That's right, y'all you heard it. This episode is terminated. Thanks for tuning in.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 3Three hours.