Ep. 3 Scoring Success: Quality Sports Participation for Kids with Autism

How can we make sports truly meaningful for children with autism? In this episode, pediatric OTs Dr. Michele Alaniz and Dr. Lacy Wright break down a comprehensive framework for quality participation in sports. Explore research-backed strategies for creating the perfect balance of challenge, autonomy, and social connection in sports programs. The hosts share their recent practice stories in "Nailed It or Failed It," introduce you to an inspiring autistic artist in Kansas, and reveal the story of their cross-country friendship and professional journey. 

We share our own thoughts in the Research Review and encourage you to read the article too.

Streatch, E., Bruno, N., & Latimer-Cheung, A. E. (2022). Investigating strategies used to foster quality participation in recreational sport programs for children with autism spectrum disorder and their perceived importance. Adapted Physical Activity Quarterly, 40(1), 86-104.

Keywords: Occupational therapy; OT; evidence based practice; OT ideas; Peds OT; pediatric occupational therapy; autism; sports; recreation

Stay informed, stay curious, and stay playful!

Email us at IdeasAtPlayPodcast@gmail.com

Find us on Instagram @ideas.at.play

Transcript

Michele: Welcome to Ideas at Play, where we discuss pediatric research and help you apply the ideas to your daily practice. Each week, we'll review evidence-based ideas to make you a better therapist. I'm Dr. Michele Alaniz, Director of Pediatrics at a rehab hospital in Southern California. And with me is my good friend and former coworker, Lacy.

Lacy: That's me. I'm Dr. Lacy Wright, an occupational therapy professor in Kansas City. We're peds OTs who love research and making it fun. We've helped thousands of therapists just like you to become more informed, more playful, and more effective in their sessions.

Michele: Today, we'll be discussing how to facilitate quality participation in sports for our kids with autism and other disabilities. If you love what you hear in today's episode, sign up for our [00:01:00] weekly newsletter, where we provide a quick summary of the research and links to any products or places we discuss in this episode.Email us at ideasatplaypodcast@gmail.com.

Lacy: Next up, we have Nailed It or Failed It, where we discuss what worked and what didn't in our practice this week. Because if you're pushing for the just right challenge, sometimes you're going to nail it, and sometimes you won't. Michele, this week you are up with a Failed It.

Michele: Yes, I am. So I want to tell you about a client that I'm working with who does not fit the profile that I'm typically really, really good at. I specialize in autism and sensory integration and aquatics therapy, and I feel like I could see any kid and do well, but. This kiddo that I'm working with is more of a neurological based disorder that she has. And it's something I'm just not that familiar with. And I [00:02:00] know through mentoring so many therapists that it's a common feeling that we all have of like, Oh my gosh, am I the best therapist for this kid?

Lacy: I totally know that feeling. I asked myself that with all of my kids for like, first two years, because I thought, Oh, I'm sorry that you got me as your therapist. I'm not a good therapist compared to everyone else. And that's just how it's going to be. I'm going to try my best.

Michele: Yeah. I mean, I think that is, it's so hard. And even as an experience therapist,I've been doing this for so long and I still have those kids where I think like, “Am I the best therapist?” But I just try to remind myself that there, it's really not about being the best. I mean, there is no such thing as the best.There are going to be other people that are better at certain things than what I am good at, but I have my own strengths that I bring to the table and I just keep digging deep each week and trying to lean into my resources and learn a little bit more and. Be the best therapist. I can be each week for her. And I [00:03:00] think that's all I can really do.

Lacy: Yeah, that's great. And the cool thing about occupational therapy is that there is no “right answer.” But if you're following like the occupational therapy process, digging deep into what you know, what the child likes, finding that just right challenge, then I'm sure it's going to be good therapy. And Michele, I know you're a great therapist. So even if you don't feel like the best therapist, I'm sure you're doing a great job with this.

Michele: Lacy, I love that so much. That warms my heart to hear you say it. And I agree there's no right way, but it is just about being informed and trying to learn more and more each week and, you know, show up with new ideas and new information and refine it as you go along.

Lacy: Great. You'll have to keep us posted on what you're doing. Maybe it'll be a Nailed It next week.

Michele: Oh, I hope so. And speaking of Lacy, you are up for I nailed it for this week. So tell us about it.

Lacy: My Nailed It this week goes to [00:04:00] show that you don't need to have the fanciest, most expensive, most wazoo ideas to have a great therapy session. I love my job. And one of the things that is so great is that I'm always working with students. Yes, I'm teaching, but I'm out in the community. I'm at three to four different sites a week with different students and different student groups, teaching them how to do OT skills with our community partners. And one of those sites is a children's museum in our area called Wonderscope, and our occupational therapy students are there leading an activity. And once a week and week after week, they can have the best, the fanciest activities, but no, the kids wanna put pompom balls into holes. The kids that come to the museum are mesmerized by this activity. We've elevated it a little bit now the pompom ball activity a seasonal twist to [00:05:00] it. So it's Feed the Turkey for like Thanksgiving or Feed the Penguin and they're putting the balls into the penguin's mouths. Right now, it's Feed the Snowman, so it's always a Feed the something. And I just love that it is not fancy, but it is so developmentally appropriate and so cute that it is the biggest hit every single week that they are there.

Michele: Yeah, and you could do so many things with that. I mean, you could add like color recognition into it. You could do patterns, you could add tongs or other things for like picking it up. I mean, it reminds me of the feed the tennis ball activity, you know, where you like slice open a tennis ball and, and put a little face on it. And then when you squeeze it, the mouth open. So it's like hand strengthening. So, I mean, I could see how you could just adjust that to so many different things.

Lacy: It's the same. It's a little Tupperware box. It's with the holes in it. Some pom pom balls are bigger, some are smaller, I have some pictures and [00:06:00] I'll be sure to get those posted on our social media, um, and maybe you'll find them in the newsletter too.

Michele: Cool. I love that. I can't wait to see it because it feels like a very visual based activity, so I'm, I can't quite visualize it. So I'm excited to see the pictures.

Lacy: Yeah. It's super cute, 

Michele: Simple is sometimes the way to go.

Lacy: Our next segment is the research review, where we break down the latest in pediatric research and explore how to apply it to your sessions. This week, Michele has an article about how to facilitate quality participation in sports for kids with autism. Tell us about it, Michele.

Michele: Yeah, I'm excited about this study. I started looking based off of the question that we have from our listener last week, Megan was asking about how to facilitate sports. And I thought there's got to be some research. And of course there is. So I found this study from 2023. It's titled Investigating Strategies Used to Foster Quality Participation [00:07:00] in Recreational Sport Programs for Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder and Their Perceived Importance.

Uh, I think this one might beat the word count that we have so far. Siri, how many words is in this title? Let me see. 1, 2, 3, 4. 21 words.

Lacy: Oh, our record's 24.

Michele: Oh, I thought I was going to beat it, 

Lacy: Nice try

Michele: Crazy.

Lacy: What

Michele: Well, let me tell you what all those 21 words are trying to say. Basically what these researchers did is they did a literature review where they looked at all the existing literature on how to support people with disabilities when they're in sports. And then they did their own unique research, a qualitative review, where they interviewed different core stakeholders to see how they thought the existing literature applies to kids with autism.[00:08:00] 

And what they were really focusing on was not just that they were like showing up and doing it, but were they having quality time? Quality participation, which I think as an occupational therapist is so important.

Lacy: did they classify as quality participation?

Michele: What they were looking at is any study that was considering how satisfying or enjoyable or personally meaningful the outcome was. So not just looking at like how many people participated or how many hours did people participate, but did they actually like it, enjoy it, find it satisfying? I didn't know this, but there's an existing framework called the Quality Sport for Participation framework, and that's designed for anyone with a disability, and it has to do with these key elements that should be present in a program if you're trying to offer it to people with disabilities. And it's really cool because you can go online and you, they have a full resource thing. So they have a checklist that [00:09:00] you can use for your site to see if you're including all of these elements and they have a summary. So it's got a lot of resources online.

Lacy: Oh, I love a good free resource. Gonna have to check that out.

Michele: Yeah, I'll definitely put a link to that in our newsletter so that people can access that resource and print it out and use it at their own facility. But basically the quality participation framework has six foundational things that they've identified need to be in a program. If it's going to feel satisfying and rewarding for a person with disabilities.

Lacy: Oh, great. All right. I love a good step by step. Are you going to tell us those six things?

Michele: Absolutely. So the first one is autonomy. And by that, they, Basically mean that we're giving choices, not just saying you're going to do this today, but that you have a choice in what type of activity you're participating in. The second one is belongingness or just feeling accepted or like you're part of a group.The third one is challenge. [00:10:00] And this was really interesting cause they were talking about how some kids want challenge to really, be difficult. They want to test themselves and see how far they can go and other kids need the challenge to be scaled back so that they can be successful. So it's really the scaffolding of the challenge for the child to be just right. Then the fourth one is engagement. And particularly for kids with autism, they're talking about like that focus and that fascination that they're really enjoying it. Number five is mastery or just like a sense of competency when you're doing it. And the final one, number six is meaning. And they define that as that it's contributing towards feeling like you're fulfilling a personal goal.So those are the six foundational things that need to be present. And then they took those six building blocks and they interviewed people that work with autistic kids, both parents and volunteers. Sports leaders and coaches and they fleshed out like how important is this to the [00:11:00] autistic population and what other things do we need to consider for them?

Lacy: Those are six great things to look at with intervention, but I feel like it could apply to almost any kid with a disability. Was there something specific they were looking at with the autistic population?

Michele: Yes, it's interesting because even with the six building blocks, they have a whole checklist of 25 different things, breaking it down into the physical environment, how accessible it is, the social environment. How are you facilitating connectedness?

How is the coach working with the kids? And then also looking at the program environment or how are they designing the activities to make it successful. So that's in the free resource that's online, but they did find something specifically for kids for autism. There were five different things. First of all, they said, coaching is crucial.

 Lacy: With the coaching, did they say it's like sports coaching or is it like using the coaching model that's sometimes referenced in therapy intervention? 

Michele: Oh, good question. So no, what I mean when I say the coach is crucial is that the way that the coaching staff are dealing with the [00:12:00] kids is crucial so that they know how to create a just right challenge that the staff child ratio is appropriate for what they're trying to do, that they're able to set goals for the athletes that are within their means. And I thought this was really interesting when it comes to being an occupational therapist and thinking about how we apply this, because we might not be the coach, but I do a lot of work with community rec programs. I know you're in the community as a professor, but as a therapist in an outpatient setting, I collaborate with the cities around me. In fact, this month, I'm going to do a training session with some rec staff from a local city who's about to launch their summer swim program.

And so they want the extra training on how to be inclusive. So I can take this as a tool and I can help coach their coaches about how to scaffold the activities so that it is the just right challenge for different kids. And I can also help them to temper expectations [00:13:00] because I think the goal setting gets skewed a little bit. The parents sometimes come in with very high expectations and coaches often have high expectations. And so helping them to think about what is a reasonable goal for this child in the timeframe that they're with you, I think those are things that OTs can really contribute. So that's one, that's the one of the things that they found. 

And then the second thing they came up with is the importance of social connection. And I thought this was interesting because sometimes we think that autistic kids are, you know, more focused on the activity than they are the friendship. But the truth is everybody wants to have a group of people they belong to.

Michele: Everybody wants friendships. It's just a matter about how they go about doing that. And so helping them to get paired up with other kids that have similar interests to them. This reminded me a long time ago, we were developing a program and we were looking into how do kids with autism make friends? And there's two different ways that people make friends. There's [00:14:00] one I might say, I might pronounce this wrong, but I think it's propinquity where it's like, you're close to them. So most kids in elementary school, all of their friends are proximity based. It's just like, they're in their neighborhood, they're in their class. They're, they're in their karate class, but then as you get older, it becomes where it's more about shared interests and values, which I think is called. Homophily. And so this was talking about like how important it is that you're pairing kids with similar interests. Cause then you have both of those…you're kind of tackling it from both ends. They're, they have the proximity cause they're both in the same class and they have a shared interest. So that's how you can really help build that social connection. And then just teaching them how to work as a team. Giving them those skills.

Lacy: That's great. Yeah, so, if they're friends in proximity, it might happen quickly and naturally, but if they have a shared interest, then that friendship can have a little bit more longevity to it.

Michele: Right. And then also, I think it's different for every [00:15:00] kid. Some kids are only going to be friends with kids that have similar interests. I don't know if you've watched the TV show, uh, Love on the Spectrum, I have noticed is that they're always looking for people that have a shared interest.”You like dinosaurs. I like dinosaurs too!” And then that's a hit for them. It's not as important that they have these other things that they share, uh, you know, around proximity or around family values or that kind of thing.

So just hitting it on both ends.

Lacy: I love it. Love it.

Michele: Okay. So then the. Third one is that it's important to personalize the activity. So that's also leaning into what their interests are and trying to incorporate that into it. If they love Pokemon, can you incorporate Pokemon into the soccer game so that it starts to help them feel really engaged with it? And thinking about how you can provide them with that personal choice and control over what they're doing. And then the fourth one is [00:16:00] to use positive reinforcement that comes out over and over again, that you're rewarding the effort, not the finished product and recognizing that as long as they're attempting it, that you want to give them positive. It reminds me of my speech therapist friends who are always saying like, you have to honor the communication, even if you don't know what they're trying to say.

Lacy: Yeah, that's so good. I love that. I had something else to say. It just makes me so happy.

Michele: I know. I mean, I think about this, how the speech therapist, no matter what the child says, they always acknowledge it. They imitate it back and they tried to build meeting off of it. So in the same way, teaching these coaches or as therapists, if we're trying to teach them leisure activities, figuring out how we can honor the attempt, not necessarily the results.

And then the final one is just making sure you get the environment right, recognizing that they thrive under consistency and in environments that aren't too distracting and really consulting with the [00:17:00] caregivers to see what makes this child successful if they have AAC learning how to use it. So taking into consideration,all of those five things are really useful for kids on the spectrum.

Lacy: Mhm. I love that you mentioned the environment because I think that's something that should be more at the forefront, but seems to be more of a secondary thought the back of therapist minds. I don't know. At least, at least it is for me and something that I'm trying to work on, but setting up that environment so that it is a good match to ensure success is so important.

Michele: Yeah. I think as an SI therapist, I'm always looking at how I can manipulate the environment to facilitate what I want. But at the same time you're limited, you know, like when I see a kid in the pool, for example, I'm trying to teach them swim skills. I can't control the fact that there's a huge echo, but what I can do is understand that that's how it's going to be and prime the parent ahead of time and tell them what the situation is going to be and tell them to bring their own towel [00:18:00] because our towels are scratchy or my latest thing that I'm loving is bringing in music and dropping a waterproof speaker into the water so that I can, you know, create my own soundscape.So there are ways that you can control for the environment even when you're just kind of stuck with what you've got.

Lacy: That sounds like such a great article. Let's talk about our three questions to see if it is a good fit for our practice. Our first question is population. I know you've already mentioned kids with autism. Were there any more specifics mentioned in this study?

Michele: The free resource that's online, the quick guide to setting up your program, that's for anybody with a disability that's participating in a sports based leisure program. And that could be a community based thing, or it could be your own therapy session where you're teaching something. And then the research article elucidated. Specifically how that relates to kids with autism.

Lacy: And the key ingredients. Let's talk about that. Because those are [00:19:00] so important to keep in mind if we're thinking about implementing this intervention in our own practice. We want to make sure we have good fidelity to the intervention. 

Michele: There are two different things to consider. There's the six building blocks that came out of the literature review that are important for building. A quality participation for athletes with any disability. And those six are autonomy, belongingness, challenge, engagement, mastery, and meaning. And then they did their own unique qualitative research where they wanted to see how those six applied to people who have autism. And they came out with five things that really dovetail into those quite well. And those five things are focusing on the coaching and making sure that they're scaffolding the activity just right, creating social connection amongst the people that are in the group, personalizing the activity. So you're incorporating the interests that that child has using positive reinforcement and also getting the environment [00:20:00] right for the child. And then the final question we always look at at the end of our research review is the mechanism of action or why an intervention worked. And in this case, it's not. One of those traditional interventions that we would think of. So Lacy, I'm leaning on you as the professor here to see if you can identify what theory base you think the researchers are drawing from for this.

Lacy: Well, this is a little trickier because there's so many theories or models that can tie into the study. The first one that jumped out at me was the person environment occupation model, the PEO model that many OTs.

Michele: You love that model.

Lacy: I do. It makes so much sense because not only do we want to support the child, but it's also really important we are considering the occupation and fine tuning it to meet the child's needs. And considering the environment to make [00:21:00] sure that it is also equally supportive. And when all of these three things come together, then that is where this child is really finding that meaningful engagement in sports.

Michele: Yeah. It feels like it really would fit this program because they're looking at, you know, how can they adjust the environment and how can you make the just right challenge and how can you support the child?

Lacy: Ya, all three elements were really highlighted throughout this article.

Michele: Wow, look at you, Professor Dr. Lacy. Good job knowing the theory base. I'm impressed. But I know you said it made you think of a couple of theories. So what was another theory you were thinking of?

Lacy: The other one is lesser known, um, I was thinking of self determination theory.

Michele: Oh, okay. That one I do not know. You can tell me a little bit about it.

Lacy: Self determination theory is all about talking with the child to help him identify his goals also working with the child [00:22:00] to create a plan to meet those goals. And the goal and the plan. that the child has made is really the driving force behind the therapy. I've seen this used more with adults, but I feel like it fits here too. And for those of you who are also theory nerds like me, I will put more information in the newsletter so you can take a deeper dive.

Michele: All right. We can geek out on the newsletter. I love it.

Lacy: Yes.

Michele: And that's it for our research review. Of course, we've only covered the highlights of this study. So, if you want to get the details, make sure you check out the article itself. And let us know how you've applied it and put it into your practice.

Michele: And now for our segment called People, Places, and Products, where we shine a light on something or someone that's making our hearts happy. Lacy, you have a shout out for this week.

Lacy: I do. I'm shouting out a person this week. Shout out to Trent and [00:23:00] his family and the Drawings by Trent videos and resources. So if you're not familiar with him, Trent is an autistic artist. Though he has limited verbal communication, he has shared his artsy talent through many, many, many YouTube videos. And he especially loves drawing animals, and he draws them so fast. If you haven't seen them, you're really missing out. Have you seen him, Michele?

Michele: I have not, but I'm going to check it out as soon as we get done recording.

Lacy: Yes. Um, and it's so cool Trent and his family share their goals on their website. They want to encourage families to help their children achieve their full potential. Educate communities on the important role of individuals of all skills to discover and use their own talents. Um, I love that it's so strengths based and when you're on their website, you can just feel the [00:24:00] love that, one, Trent has for his drawings, and two, that his family has for Trent. 

Michele: That is such an important resource because I know that the families I work with need encouragement. Sometimes they get overwhelmed, especially when they think about the future and what that's going to hold for their child. So having that positive example or role model I think could be super useful.

Lacy: Yeah, and it gets even better. I found out today that Trent and his family also have a podcast called Used Up Pens, where they share about their life and their process of navigating autism. And there's also a lot of cool merch on their website that highlight Trent's drawings. You can get like a personalized drawing of his or get a t-shirt or something. Um, and I also have to say they live in Kansas, just outside of Wichita. So, woot woot to Kansas there again.

Michele: You love your Midwestern people.

Lacy: I do, I do. I'm a new [00:25:00] Kansan, but I love it. I found my home. Anyway, check out Drawings by Trent, I think you're gonna love it, and we'll also include a link to his website in our show notes and newsletter and share it on our social media as well.

Michele: And speaking of our newsletter, if you would like to get our newsletter or if you have questions, good news is we've got answers. You can always email us at ideasatplaypodcast@gmail.com or DM us on our social media, and we may include your question in a future episode.

Lacy: Our question for this week comes from Sarah from Chicago. Sarah said, I love your new show, but I'm curious how the two of you met and know each other. 

Sarah, thank you so much for your question. We have gotten so wrapped up in our podcast and OT research and all the good times we're having. And I realized we have not told you very much about ourselves and our friendship along the way. So thank you [00:26:00] so much for asking.

Michele: Lacy and I met so many years ago when she was a very fresh new grad in the clinic that I am now the director of. At the time, I was a staff OT. She was a new therapist. I had a little bit, a few more years under my belt and we worked closely together. I got to mentor her and she got to mentor me with all of her new ideas as well. So we developed this professional relationship first, where we respected each other's work and we learned from each other and then that flourished into a personal friendship. And over the years, we have just challenged each other to grow and to get better and to expand. And this podcast is just one more step in that progression.

Lacy: Yeah, as you mentioned, we both spurred each other on to get our board certification in pediatrics with AOTA, and then recently we both [00:27:00] got our post professional. OT doctorate degrees, different programs, but similar time frames, and it is this desire to continue to grow in our profession and continue our friendship along the way. 

Michele: I have to say that Lacy has always been an inspiration to me. It's funny because she came in as the newbie and I was the veteran, but she just keeps pushing me forward. You know, she. So I'm going to do this board certification and I thought, Oh, what's the point? It's just a bunch of paperwork. But then she inspired me. I watched her do it. I thought it was pretty cool. And so then I did it too. And then she was like, I'm going to go back to school and get my doctorate. And I said, “Oh, what's the point? It's going to be so boring and terrible.” And she did it and had so much fun that it inspired me. To do the same thing. And then she said, I'm going to become a professor and start teaching this. And I was like, “Ooh, students, that sounds hard.” But then I started teaching just in a different way. So I do continue education courses that I offer [00:28:00] to clinicians. And I think those passions that we both have around learning and growth and sharing information is what drove us to start this podcast.

Lacy: Yes, we're both avid podcast listeners. So we not only swap research articles. We also swap podcasts back and forth together. So when I told Michelle that I was moving to Kansas, she said, well, that means we need to start a podcast together to keep these conversations going and keep the friendship alive. And now a few years later, here we are.

Michele: And it has done just that. I'm all the way in California, you're in Kansas, but we get to meet regularly, catch up on live, and laugh at each other as we bumble our way through all of these new things that we're trying.

Lacy: Yes, continuing to learn and grow along the way. Um, Michelle, you've mentioned a little bit earlier about how you particularly enjoy working with autistic [00:29:00] clients. Are there any other passions around occupational therapy that you are particularly interested in to share?

Michele: Well, I have so many passions, and I think really that's why I wanted to do this podcast, because I just love learning. All of the amazing things that occupational therapists are doing out in the world. My specialty is autism and sensory integration. And I also have a specialty in aquatics.

Lacy: Oh, yeah, aquatics. Didn't you just get an award for that?

Michele: I did get an award for that. The National Board of Occupational Therapy honored me and only two other people in all of the United States with an award called the Innovation Award around the program that I developed with aquatics and teaching drowning prevention to kids with autism. And so I love that. I love research. It's been incredible to be able to come up with research ideas and actually put them into play and then see them published. It's just a really exciting thing to be able to contribute to the knowledge [00:30:00] base. All of us are trying so hard to be the best we can. And it's great to be able to help other therapists in that way.

Lacy: Mm hmm. Yeah. I love how you love research and are always finding new articles. It was funny working with you because You were always bringing new articles and sometimes they were a little bit obscure and you're like, “hey, we're gonna try this I have the best kid for it” and it would be an intervention None of us on the team had ever heard of but you had it You had your article all marked up and you had the best kid for it and you were gonna try it. Who knew how it was going to turn out? Sometimes it was great. Sometimes I think you only did it once or twice, but I love that you weren't afraid to stretch yourself and try new things and really dive into the research and not just think of it as, “Oh yeah, maybe that's something fun. I'll try someday.” You are passionate about putting research. into practice and [00:31:00] seeing how it turns out. And I really, really appreciate that about you.

Michele: Yeah, it's funny. Everybody loves the idea of research, but not many people want to actually search for research and then actually have to read the article and then figure out how to apply it. So I feel really excited that I get to do that for people because it's something I love to do. And then on the flip side, Lacy, you've always been so passionate about theories and frame of references and understanding why we do certain things and then understanding how to.

Translate knowledge from one person to another person. So tell me a little bit about your passions.

Lacy: Yes. I always want to know the why behind things. If I know the why, then the rest of it falls into place. And that is also really helpful when working with students, because if I. know the knowledge at a deeper level and better able to explain it to students rather than just trying [00:32:00] to repeat the talking points. And you know me, Michelle, I love, love, love working with students. That's why I went into academia because I love being a Peds OT, but I love being a Peds OT with at least one student with me at all times. So I jumped to academia when I'm teaching, I have a class of about 50 at a time, and at any given I have 8-10 students, either level 1, level 2 or capstone students.  I also oversee the level 1 fieldwork experience, we call i Service Learning, where I am supporting these 50 students in about 15 sites in our community practice settings. And we talk about “What is OT?What is going on with the person or environment? What is occupation? What can we [00:33:00] do to address that just right challenge and also students? What are you learning? How are you feeling about your learning? What else do you want to know?” And that is so so fun. 

Michele:Yes. That reminds me when you used to work at the clinic with me, you would have like three students assigned to you and all of us were like, um, we'll do one student every once in a while. And you're like, I'll take them all. And you somehow just managed to make that an amplified learning experience. The more students you had, the more learning that was happening.So makes my heart happy knowing that you have so many students that you're able to do that for now.

Lacy: Yeah, they bring me so much joy I have great students and I'm happy to share in all of our nailed it's and failed it's I can't take credit And I also won't take the blame for them all because I always have a student, at least one student, with me at all times. So, um, when they are getting a Nailed It, kudos to my students as well.

Michele: Sarah, thanks so much for that question. It's [00:34:00] always fun to reminisce about how we know each other. 

Mhm.

Michele: This week we reviewed how to help our kids be successful in sports based programs. Remember, the steps include Autonomy, belongedness, challenge, engagement, mastery, and meaning.

Lacy: Thanks for listening to Ideas at Play. If you learned something new from today's podcast, be sure to leave a rating and a review. This really helps others find our podcast so we can all be evidence based therapists. If you want more ideas for your sessions, you can also find us on Instagram under Ideas at Play, or email us at ideasatplaypodcast@gmail.

com. Let us know if you have any questions, and they may show up in a future episode. 

Michele: Next time, stay informed, stay curious, stay playful!

Out take

Michele: Get ready for your funny comments.

Lacy: And cue funny comment. It's going to be great.