THA S02 EP#32 - Diagnose Before You Lead: What Makes a CEO Worth Following

Michael Cupps sits down with Chantelle Preston, healthcare entrepreneur, investor, growth strategist, and co-owner of a League One volleyball expansion team launching in San Francisco in 2027. Chantelle built Mentis Neurorehabilitation from the ground up and exited to private equity in 2015. What she found at the finish line surprised her. Not fulfillment. Not arrival. Just the quiet question of whether she had been chasing the right things all along.

That question became a book.

The Success Lie breaks down nine narratives most leaders absorbed early in life. You can have it all. Say yes to everything. Someone will take care of you financially. It is too late. Chantelle and Michael work through several of them in this conversation, including the one that catches experienced leaders off guard: the habit of serving goals you set years ago that no longer reflect who you are or where you want to go.

They get into work-life integration (not balance, Chantelle is clear on the distinction), the cost of perfectionism waiting until something is 120% ready before moving, why feedback and failure are data points rather than verdicts, and how culture does not live in a values statement on the wall. It lives in micro decisions made daily at every level of the organization.

Chantelle also shares the one non-negotiable habit she puts on her calendar every week and never cancels.

Connect with Chantelle Preston LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/chantellepreston Website: chantalpreston.com Advisory: prestonpartners.net Book: The Success Lie, available for pre-order now, launches July 28th on Amazon and Barnes & Noble

This Show is sponsored by TimeBandit.io

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Transcript

Hello, and welcome to The Habit Architect again. It's nice to see everybody. I'm really excited about our guest today. It's a fellow Texan, so I always get excited to talk to other fellow Texans. But the topics are gonna be ranging from a couple of things, but one of them that sticks to me is I think there was a quote that said, basically, "Are you serving goals that you set in the past, and does that make you feel stuck?" CUPPS: 0:23

Are you... Do you feel like your, maybe your legs are in quicksand and you're not going as fast, or you're not going in the direction that you wanna go? And we're gonna talk about that today with Chantal, and we're gonna introduce her in just a minute. But I... Before that, I did, as mentioned it last week, and the week before maybe, that I did get the free Priority Matrix out there, and you'll see a ticker that scrolls every now and then with it. CUPPS: Or drop us a comment in the, in this, in the livestream or the YouTube, wherever you're watching this, and we'll get you a link to it. And as you guys know I think the Priority Matrix is the most important thing when you're thinking about your work. If you don't categorize work im- immediately in the right way, then you're gonna find yourself doing things that don't matter. CUPPS: Or maybe they're just taking up time, and you're missing opportunities to work on things that

really do matter. So take a look at the Priority Matrix. I'm happy to walk you through it to s- download it. Or you don't even have to download it. It's a web app, so you can use it wherever. CUPPS: So let's get into today's guest. So Chantal Preston has a long list of credentials, but the one that's re- one that's most topical is she just is part of a ownership group of a women's volleyball team, so that's fun. We'll talk a little bit about that. But mo- but equally, she just launched her book. CUPPS: 1:23

And I think it's a great topic for us to talk about. It's called The Success Lie, which is a great name for it. So let's go ahead and bring Chantal on, and I'll let you introduce yourself with all of your other things going on. CUPPS: I promise she's in, she's here. She's just slowly coming on back from backstage, but that's our system. There we go. Hello. CHANTELLE: Fashionably late, Cupps. Fashionably- CUPPS: There you go ... thank CHANTELLE: you so much for having me today, so- Abso- CUPPS: absolutely CHANTELLE: So just to give everybody just a little bit of my background, as you mentioned a lot of things are happening now, but my background goes in, I was a healthcare entrepreneur. CHANTELLE: My main business was called Mentis Neurorehabilitation.

We built it from concept all the way to exited private equity in 2015. And, starting at the bottom and getting all the way to the top, we'll talk a little bit more about the success lie and where that came from. Yeah. And the last 10 years have really just been around, I also own hospitals, I have a lot of investments, but how can I help elevate and empower other women? CHANTELLE: 2:23

But also, as a strategist, how can I help companies grow? Yeah. And how can I help them grow in a positive way and being very intentional? I think right now we're in a time where it's move quick, raise a lot of money, but is that the right way of doing things? And so it's really around helping other companies, whether they're startup or later phase really figure out what's the best, most intentional way to grow- Yeah CHANTELLE: and where do they want to be when they grow up. So that's where I'm at now. And you did mention I just my business partner and I just recently purchased the new League One volleyball team in San Francisco. Nice. Super excited about that. Again, a passion of mine, but also showing the ecosystem of women and showing, hey, look, you can take it all the way from youth all the way to pro, and this was a way of me putting my money where my mouth was and showing, hey, I'm a

big supporter of women and I'm gonna continue to do that. CUPPS: That's fantastic. And it is... we are starting to see the visibility of women's sports getting up there on par where it should be. And, we've got, you're starting to see women's softball, and cer- certainly the WNBA is capturing everybody's eyes. So fantastic news on that. CUPPS: Congratulations on the on the team ownership. Now you get fans gonna ask you how we doing?" CHANTELLE: 3:23

We're not doing yet. Okay. So we don't start w- We're the expansion team, so we'll launch in 2027. We're, that'll be our third season for League One volleyball. Obviously, it's a little bit new, but volleyball's the fastest growing sport in the United States, and I was absolutely- Wow CHANTELLE: I looked at a lot of the different leagues when I was looking at my investment and, you just wanna align yourself with those that have the same values. Yeah. And League One did that, and so that was, makes me really excited to be a part of it. CUPPS: Absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks for being on with us and talking. CUPPS: We're actually on opposite sides of the country today. I'm in the New York, Newark airport, and you're on the West Coast in California. Yeah ... we're covering the span. So let's talk about the book. That's a provocative title, right? And I'm sure that you chose that for a reason. CUPPS: Can you tell us a little bit about the book and then how you

got there? Why did you write it? CHANTELLE: Sure. So the book is really about my experiences throughout my career. And, the success lie came from, we all grew up in a mentality of you can have it all, and when you finally got there, you would be completely fulfilled, right? CHANTELLE: And so I was so focused in that 25 years of reaching that outcome- Yeah ... of how can I have it all, yeah. The perfect career, the perfect family, the perfect, the money, all of those things that I was taught. And then when I got there, it was the most unfulfilled I'd ever felt- Right CHANTELLE: 4:23

because I had this notion that if I did everything perfectly, if I worked harder, worked longer, that I would get there, and then everything would be great. And it doesn't always work that way. And so the book is really around how do we change those narratives? How do we take the lies that we were told maybe in our youth- Yeah CHANTELLE: about you can have it all. You can, but usually not at the same time, yeah. Say yes to everything. Yeah. Really? Is that the best way of doing things? It's either m- it's either a career or your family. Why? Why can't you integrate the two together? So really it's the nine lies that really

molded my career and my life, and how can we change those narratives around what works for you versus- Yeah CHANTELLE: what society and everyone around you is telling you how you need to be. So that's really- Yeah ... the basis of the book, and it's a lot of my stories. It's very vulnerable. Sometimes I wonder why I did it. Yeah. It's very vulnerable, but I want people to realize that, hey, you're not alone, and it's okay to have those thoughts and those ideas- Yeah CHANTELLE: a- and to feel the ways that we're feeling. Yeah ... even the people looking at you go, "W- why? We don't get it. You have the money." That's great, but w- I didn't even know who I was anymore. CUPPS: 5:23

Yeah. I think that's so true and maybe because I've got gray hair, and I've talked to people along the, on, along the journey. CUPPS: I hear a lot of... You hear that a lot with w- certainly with my age group because we were told, y- this is how you have it all, and you go, right? CHANTELLE: Yeah. CUPPS: And you said a couple things that are interesting in there and one of them, one of them is a concept that I put in my book just a little bit is you said saying yes to everything. CUPPS: I... In my book, I was talking about how to say no to certain things. So t- can you talk a little bit about that, what, how people get in that trap that they just agree, and then all of a sudden they're overwhelmed? CHANTELLE: Yeah,

absolutely. And by the way, we're probably the same generation. I got a lot of gray hair. CHANTELLE: I just cover it up, Cupps. A- as kids, we were told, the more you do, say yes, be s- be nice to everyone, be seen not heard. Let's just say all those things that Generation X-ers overhear. So we get in that habit of saying yes, and then if we say no, we feel guilty. And I've lived my whole life. CHANTELLE: 6:23

Yeah. And look, I'm not still the best about it, but I've had to put things in place where it enables me to take a step back before I do things that don't bring me joy and/or help me- ... reach my goals because we just get in the habit of saying yes, and then when we get there, we realize, A, I don't have the time. CHANTELLE: I'm not doing that person any favors because I don't really want to be here, nor do I have the time to do it, and then you're really hurting them as well as yourself. And so it was- Yeah ... really taking that step back and saying, "What's important to me?" And what's important to me now? And you know- Yeah ... I have these different mindsets of, now I, instead of come a shiny penny." CHANTELLE: You say, "Oh, you want to..." I was like, "Yes." And now I have to go, "Wait, let me check my schedule to make sure I have

the appropriate time to be able to do this." Yes. Yeah. And that gives me the opportunity to take that step back in saying no, and then also thinking about could someone else I know help them and be more beneficial? CHANTELLE: Yeah. And it just, there's just different ways I've had to do it, Kebsik, along the way that- Yeah ... also then we deal with the guilt, and I don't know if this is men. Okay. I'm just gonna speak as women. Yeah. Then we feel guilty for saying no. Exactly. And I had to reframe it in my own mind that me saying no to someone is giving someone else an opportunity. CHANTELLE: 7:23

Yeah. And that really helped me overall say, "Hey, it's not that I'm saying no and I'm doing a disservice or being, being, not being a friend." It's, "Hey, I can't do this, so I'm gonna say no because there's someone out there that's raising their hand saying, 'I really wanna do this.'" And I love my example of room mom in PTA. CHANTELLE: I hate it. Yeah. And I did it for six years, and then I realized there was moms out there that really wanted to do it and had the time to do it. Yeah. So why am I putting myself through that? Because it's not helping me reach the goals that I had set for

myself. CUPPS: Absolutely. And one of the best lessons I learned from my father and my grandfather growing up on a farm in West Texas was you either did it yourself or it didn't get, it didn't get done a little bit. CUPPS: And but what was happening there is I was learning how to do things for myself- ... or, and for the, the whatever the goal was in the crops or whatever. But that lesson somewhere along the way isn't taught. And I agree with you. When you say no, it might be giving an opportunity to somebody else, and also it helps them learn. CUPPS: 8:23

'Cause I look back at my career and there's times that I said yes and did something where somebody else would've benefited from doing it first, right? Or because they just didn't get the opportunity 'cause I was, I don't wanna... I, maybe it's hoarding. I was hoarding my knowledge to do those things repeatedly rather than giving that knowledge to somebody else to do. CHANTELLE: You put it kindly. So I always said it was my ego. Oh, I had to be the one there, right? I had to be the one to attend these things because I was the important one. And to your point, I never delegated younger in my career because I felt like I had to be the one to do it, because if I did it, I knew it was gonna get done right. CUPPS: Yeah. CHANTELLE: That's where I

really transitioned in my journey of being a leader, because I realized, how am I gonna get my folks that work with me or for me to the next level? And if I don't give them the opportunities to do things, then they're not gonna grow. And, wrong, or different, I also had to let go of everything had to be done exactly how I wanted it done. CHANTELLE: 9:23

Yes. Yes. It didn't matter how they did it, as long as the end goal was the same. Yeah. And that really is where my transition of being a leader really happened, Kevs- Yeah ... 'cause it was hard for me to do that. But then I look at the people that have grown underneath me, and I'm like, "Wow, we did a great job," because we gave them the autonomy to make those decisions without, in a secure environment where they knew that, hey, if they made the wrong decision, I used to say, "Did anybody die?" No." Yeah. Okay. Then, it's not a crisis, it's a how do we fix this and learn from the situation? Yeah. And giving them that sp- safe space was really important for them to really grow. CHANTELLE: And I think that was probably a huge component in the transition of my leadership. CUPPS: Yeah. And if you think about business leaders out there, particularly in the small, medi- immediate, mid-size market, and they're

growing, if they don't do that their asset is less sellable in down the road, right? CUPPS: It ... You don't wanna buy a business that's solely isolated with one leader. You want a system that's operating that company. So I get very much where you're doing that. Now, you talked about something else that I'd really like to talk about, is work-life integration. And you didn't say the word balance, and I appreciate that, 'cause I've always thought balance i- is implies this equal weight, right? CUPPS: But integration to me is a better way. Can you talk a little bit about how you coach that or what you th- or your perspective is? CHANTELLE: 10:23

Sure. I tell people all the time, take balance and just throw it out of your vocabulary. Balance doesn't exist, okay? Yeah. And a lot of us, for many years, we tried to balance everything, and then we try to be perfect at it, which all it does is cause burnout, we bang our heads against the wall, and everybody ends up miserable. CHANTELLE: So I went from balance to integration. How do I integrate the two together? I have my career, I have my family, right? You're not gonna be 100% all the time at everything, and that's where that perfection comes in. So how can I integrate them together? And I've learned there's a lot of things that I do in my business, why am I not doing the same thing in my house and my, in my- with my family?

We have a Sunday evening, strategic meeting. Why? Because we talk about the logistics. There's a lot of things happening in our house. As we all know, our kids are overscheduled. We're... the logistics are, I've got three daughters, so it's like a nonstop, chaos. And so how do we figure out, what are the logistics? CHANTELLE: 11:23

Let's figure out what, who's doing what, contributing to the family. Just like my employees. Yeah. How is my kids gonna contribute to the family? It's not all the weight goes on my shoulders, and not your crisis is gonna become my crisis. That's a big issue in my family. Yeah. Yeah. So how we teach them those skills very early on. CHANTELLE: And then the other thing with that is, I bring my kids into my world, after selling my business I didn't travel for a long time, and now I'm back to traveling again, as you can see. And my little ones are eight and they said why do you have to do this?" And before I would have left work at the door, don't talk about work in the house. Let's leave it at the door. Now I'm like, "Hey, I'm gonna bring you in. I want you to understand why I am doing this." Yeah. Because it's important to me, and it's important for my passion and purpose. And frankly, it makes me a better parent. Yeah. And so I've learned, Cupps, that

being a CEO makes me a better parent, and being a parent makes me a better CEO. CHANTELLE: Yeah. Absolutely. So again, how do we integrate those together so do- we don't feel like it's one or the other? CUPPS: Yeah. CHANTELLE: But at the same time, you still gotta set boundaries, yeah. And that's, that's- Cool ... still the hard thing for all of us, of course, is setting those boundaries. But- Yeah ... I do try to be very intentional with those. CUPPS: 12:23

That's fantastic. And I think that's great advice, and I like the parent-CEO correlation. I think that's a good way of looking at it. So you, you said the lies. So can you walk us through a few of the lies that we that we probably all have heard and maybe lived at in time? So- CHANTELLE: Sure, sure. CHANTELLE: And we've talked about a few of them. You can have it all. No, you can't, not at the same time. And this is what I tell people too, is everything has a season and a reason. I think when we were younger, it's like, where do you wanna be in five years, 10 years? And we put this grandiose out there. Nowadays, I'm like, where do I wanna be in three months, six months? CHANTELLE: Yeah. And what's important now? Because what's important, what was important to me 10 years ago is not the same of where I am right now in my career and my life. So I think it's really looking at things and saying,

"Hey, where am I right now in the season and reason?" Right now I've got a freshman in high school, so the next three years I really wanna spend as much time as I can with her before she goes off to college. CHANTELLE: Yeah. So there's certain things I'm gonna put on hold until that happens. But I think that we've gotta look at it in that manner. Saying yes to everything, we talked about that. The other one is, don't worry, somebody'll take care of you financially. Yeah. Or negotiating, being your own advocate. CHANTELLE: 13:23

There's one thing that, somebody'll take care of you. No, they won't. No one's gonna advocate like you, for you like you will advocate for yourself. And I try to t- teach people that all the time, is negotiations. Things like that. That's advocating. That's not arrogant. It's being prepared. CHANTELLE: Yeah. It's preparing, negotiating, knowing your value. How can you do those things without feeling guilty or bad or saying, "Oh, this is good enough"? No. Again, be your own advocate, because that's the only way you're gonna get to where you wanna be in life. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot of ... The other one is it's too late. CHANTELLE: It's never too late. You and I- Yes ... proved it. I think you said earlier you're starting a new d- a new company. It's never too late. It's where- Yeah ... what's

important at that point in your life. And I think we have this mindset of when you hit 50, you're, headed to the grave. CHANTELLE: Now, I just hit 50 a few years ago, now I'm thinking I'm in the best place I've ever been in my life. Yeah. So I think it's changing that mindset around, it's not too late, it's just where are you and do you have the time and the passion to, to pursue? Yeah. And that's where I want people to understand. CUPPS: 14:23

Yeah. And do you find, and I think it was one of your LinkedIn posts that I picked up on this, but y- you were talking about be careful that we're not serving old goals, I think maybe is the way it was phrased, or something like that. So we had a goal back a decade ago or m- maybe longer, or maybe even five years ago, and we're, our activity is driven to achieve that goal, but it's not the goal that we care about today. CHANTELLE: And that goes back to really reevaluating things on a more consistent basis. Not five years out, 10 years out. It's, okay, what are my goals? And when I sit down, Cupps, and look at my goals, I look at them on a yearly basis, 'cause we all know things can change that are beyond our control that can shift things, so we've gotta be prepared for that. CHANTELLE: But also, to your point, what are my goals right now- Yeah ... versus

what were they... look, we all have those overall goals. We all wanna, be successful in our careers, have great families. Those are great, but let's get a little bit more granular with that- Yeah ... and saying, "How can I achieve those goals, and what's realistic now?" CHANTELLE: I think a lot of what we do is we set unrealistic goals, and then we never hit them, and so it's like a frustration. Then you get in this cycle of just complete, failure that, "Oh, I'm never gonna do it, so why am I even doing it?" Yeah. Again, if we're reevaluating that on a more consistent basis... CHANTELLE: 15:23

And I do this every year. I sit down and look at what are my goals for this year, and then I reevaluate them on a quarterly basis. Why? Because I wanna make sure that my world hasn't shifted in a manner that I need to reevaluate some of those goals. And so that's what I mean is because, again, what I thought five years ago, even last year, is so different than now. CHANTELLE: So how do we really look at that more consistently versus we do now? I know. I think I just became you. I know. That- I just got... Dave Cupps, I am now you, so thank you so much. I'm feeling great. Do you have CUPPS: it for me, I don't... CHANTELLE: oh, there we go. Oh, CUPPS: there we go. CHANTELLE: Okay. I thought they were gonna let me take it

over now I CUPPS: think... CUPPS: Oh, there we go. That's good. So CHANTELLE: yeah, CUPPS: that's- Yeah ... okay. Now that's a good time for this question I had for you. I appreciate that about the goal. The... A- and I think the resets are important. That... I love your advice there. Tell me about perfectionism. We all wanna be perfect, right? So what- CHANTELLE: You know- how do you CUPPS: take CHANTELLE: that on? CHANTELLE: 16:23

That's a great, that's a great question. We all wanna be perfect. Let's just admit that. However, perfection just doesn't exist. Let's just be honest- Yeah ... with each other. And so we have to really figure out what's good enough And when I say that- Yeah ... people say you're dropping your standards." CHANTELLE: No, I'm not dropping my standards. I'm being very intentional. Yeah. Because what happens, and I see this a lot with women, I'll just say this, is they wait till something is, 120% done, right? Yeah. Cross the T's, dot the I's. They're in paralysis by the analysis. They won't proceed forward with their company because they don't feel like they're ready. CHANTELLE: Whereas, I'll just say men are a little bit different. They get an idea and they're like, "Hey, we'll figure out the details later. Let's go." Yeah. Yeah. How do we look at things and say, "What's good enough?" Because my 70% may be, somebody else's, 100%, vice versa.

So how do we- Yeah ... look at things and say, "What's good enough?" CHANTELLE: And I think that's just a mindset shift for each of us of perfection just doesn't exist. And I worry- Yeah ... with the next generations, if we keep going like that, we're gonna have even more burnout. Because again- Yeah ... it just doesn't work that way. So what can you give, and where do you think a good enough? CHANTELLE: 17:23

And that's where it's so important to surround ourselves with people that are like-minded that will help us, be our board of directors saying, "Hey, look, you're in a great place. Go." Yeah. And that's where I think you need those advisors around you to be able to help you see those things sometimes. CUPPS: Yeah. Absolutely, I like that. And I think it it also, maybe you can talk about this, it... People don't like getting feedback e- especially if that feedback feels negative, right? And no one likes to be criticized. And if you, like you said, let's just take it down to a meeting. You were tasked with putting together the presentation for something. CUPPS: And you get in that meeting, we've all done it, and people go, "Oh did you think about this? No, that, that doesn't work. That math doesn't work," whatever. And people feel like they were a

failure, and that's not the case. It's an iteration, right? It's getting to the point. And sometimes that advisor is maybe disguised as just a hard question, I think. CHANTELLE: And that's true. And I think we've got a little bit thinner skin than we used to be. I'll tell you that. In my younger days we would get brutalized and... But I think it's also important too, to your point, nobody likes to be told what to do and nobody likes to be criticized. I always tell people to discuss it in an experience, in a story, not necessarily telling someone what to do. CHANTELLE: 18:23

If I share my experience with you, you're gonna resonate better with that than me telling you what to do. So let me tell you what my experience has been and what I went through. With the criticism side of things, it's really hard because, again, it's a fine line. I always like to ask questions. CHANTELLE: Instead of telling somebody and criticizing, it's asking questions. And yes, sometimes they gotta be a little bit more delicate than others, but depending on the person. But how do I ask questions to get them to think outside the box? Yeah. And me as a leader, that's my job. It's not to criticize. It's not to, say something's right or wrong. CHANTELLE: It's to challenge you to think through all the

different aspects and come up with the best solution. Yeah. And then you said it you had a buzzword, failure. It's amazing to me, Kev, how people feel like if- If I fail at something, I'm a failure. It used to not be like that. Look, I feel like if you're not failing, you're not trying hard enough. CHANTELLE: 19:23

Yeah. And I've learned more from my failures than I have from anything else. And so stop internalizing that and taking that personal. It's more around, okay, if you failed and you gave up, yeah, I don't have a whole lot of advice for you. But if you fail and say, "What lessons did I learn from that and how can I change or shift gears or pivot?" CHANTELLE: That's where the learning and that's where it really benefits you. And I want people to realize that because I do see people now "Oh, I'm such a failure." No, what did you learn? I learned X, Y, and Z. Then it's not a failure, yes. It may be a bump in the road and, it may be a failure, but you're not a failure. CHANTELLE: Yeah. Let's figure out how we can pivot and move forward in a positive manner. CUPPS: Yeah. Yeah, I think they're all signals, right? That feedback is a signal. Yeah. You may be on the wrong path, and that's okay. It... you can find another

path, but it is harder. So I think especially for our younger generations that are entering the workplace and they do get... CUPPS: They feel like there's criticism, but it could just be gentle nudge to say, there's a different way if you considered it." And that's a... It's a hard thing, CHANTELLE: and a lot of times I'll tell them, "Look, my goal is to make sure that you grow as much as you can." Yeah. "And therefore, there may be some hard conversations that we have. CHANTELLE: 20:23

And it's not a personal... It's not personal towards you. It's how can I help you get to the place you wanna be?" And sometimes we have to have those hard conversations, but that's such is life, because not everybody's gonna be as nice as I am. So how do we make sure that they understand both sides of the coin? CHANTELLE: And I think that's the important thing. With the younger generation, it's really interesting because like you said, they've got great ideas and, to me it's all about the execution. And great, this is great, but what are you executing and how are you doing it, and making sure that they've thought through everything. CHANTELLE: And look I'm sure there's some that would say I, I can be pretty critical at times. Yeah. And then there's others that can say I'm the nicest person in the world. So it just depends on the situation, but at the end of the day, I think people need to understand, we

as leaders want people to be successful, and so we wanna do everything we can to help them get to that point. CHANTELLE: And look, it's a hard world, so sometimes you gotta be a little bit stronger than others. And I think that- Yeah ... that's just the way life is. CUPPS: Yeah. Absolutely, it is. Absolutely, it is. So you have an advisory service as well, I believe in your, in... is it Preston Partners? Is that your advisory? CHANTELLE: It is. I do consulting- Yeah ... with Preston Partners, whether it's strategic or whether it's... I still do a lot of healthcare stuff just 'cause I love it. Yeah. But yes, a lot of growth strategy. CUPPS: 21:23

Yeah. So that's where I wanted to get to on the growth strategy. I... And this may come from your healthcare background. CUPPS: You you talk about diagnostics being more important than the prescription sometimes, right? So can you walk us through how that me- methodology plays out? CHANTELLE: Sure. I think it's important to understand what is the real problem? I think sometimes that we sit there and we look at things and we always have a solution, but we're not finding a solution to the right problem. CHANTELLE: And so it's like you gotta look at it as a, obviously macro, but then granular as to what is really we're t- what are we really trying to solve for? And I think a lot of problems with a lot of

companies is they think they know what the problem is because it's so high level, but then when they get lower down, they realize it's something very different. CHANTELLE: Yeah. And I think that's really important when you're scaling an organization. There's a lot of... We talked about this a little bit earlier. There's a lot of companies that like, oh, they just wanna raise. They wanna, quantity. Let's talk about what's the quality side of it. CHANTELLE: 22:23

And when we built our business, we were very intentional. We could have been three times the size that we were, but we wanted to be intentional and make sure that the infrastructure was in place, that at some point if we did wanna grow in a quick manner, we could, but we wanted to make sure that the foundation was very solid. CHANTELLE: And I, I worry sometimes, and I see a lot of entrepreneurs doing this, they're more worried about raising money because that's, that's more glamorous than actually running the business. And so I think it's really understanding what are you trying to achieve, and what's the best mechanism to get there? CHANTELLE: Is it quick growth? Is it smart growth? How do you get there for that end result? But you have to know what is that end result you're trying to achieve. CUPPS: Yeah. That's a great idea. I, and I like that a lot because I think even

now with AI and the ability to vibe code, that priority matrix that I put out there I did that in a vibe coding platform myself, and but that gives, especially I think a younger person that hasn't built a business or ru- run a business before, a false sense that you have a company now, but that's not it. That's not running the company. That's the product, which could be very good, but you've gotta put those other things around it. CUPPS: And I... and do you have candid conversations with leaders about their I'd say where they wanna be, their goals and st- and then backwards- Yeah ... through that? Yeah. CHANTELLE: 23:23

Yeah. I've actually been told to be nicer at times, okay? So let me just say that out loud. Yes, and I think it's h- I think it's important to have those candid conversations because I, in the healthcare industry, they'll come and say, "I've got this great product. CHANTELLE: Everyone's... It's gonna help everyone." That's great. Who's gonna pay for it? They should pay for it. It's great. No, that's not how this works, right? And so it's like you could have a great product, a great idea, but if you don't have an executable plan, and also how someone's gonna pay for it, supply and demand, it's just a great idea. CHANTELLE: And it doesn't matter how many people or lives it's gonna save, the reality in healthcare today is nobody cares. They care about how's it

gonna reduce cost and h- who's gonna pay for it. And so that's where you have to have those hard conversations because, again, and I told this one guy, "I'm gonna save you five years of your life because you're never gonna get to where you wanna be because you haven't thought through all of the different components. CHANTELLE: 24:23

Yes, you have a great product." Yeah. "It could help a lot of folks, but how are you gonna get the market to accept it and bring it into their facilities?" And he couldn't get there, and that was what was amazing to me. It's like that's where, the team around you, build a great team with people that have different skillsets that you do that challenge you, and you can challenge each other so you think through all those aspects. CUPPS: Yeah. And i- is that a learned skill? I've I think it is, but I'm just curious because some of those founders are- Yeah ... "This is the way I built it and this is why," and that, they just can't get out of that way. CHANTELLE: I'll tell you, those are not my investments, okay? I'll tell you that first and foremost. CHANTELLE: Yeah. Good luck on getting investments on that. If you're not coachable and you have your own blinders on, you're your own worst enemy. Yeah. And so I do think there's a lot of them out there. There's a lot of arrogance out there. "Oh, I'm worth 8 million." Great, you have

nothing but a concept. CHANTELLE: How are you worth this? That's what everybody says." That's not good enough, and I think as we see the markets are getting harder and harder to raise capital, you're gonna have to have a better executable plan because they're looking at the jockey. Does the jockey listen? Do they... Can... Do they know when to pivot? CHANTELLE: 25:23

And I tell entrepreneurs all the time, "Where you are right now is probably not where you're gonna be at the end." Yeah. Because you think that's where you're headed, but you never know what's gonna cau- what causes, around you are gonna make you pivot. Yeah. And if you can't think outside the box and see all aspects versus just what's right in front of you, you're not gonna be successful, and I do have those hard conversations. CUPPS: Yeah. Yeah, tho- that's great advice. Now the last concept of kind of in this world before we, I ask you a couple of habit questions, but culture as a system. So you know, there's a lot of talk about, have a better culture, and we've all probably seen the, or been a part of a company that said, "Here's our values," and they put it up on the wall but there was not much behind it. CUPPS: It was just words. So how do you get cultural change inside of these companies? CHANTELLE: I think cultural is really micro.

It's micro decisions. It's small things on a daily basis. And I do agree with you. There's a lot of companies that they have the values, and then you're like, "But do you live by those values?" CHANTELLE: And it starts at the top, and when I took over my hospital company in 2018, and the culture that was there before I got there was very different than the culture I created. I think it's important that now versus let's just say 20 years ago, culture to me is around trust, respect, agency. CHANTELLE: 26:23

How do we help people work in an environment that they can be successful? But that's leading by example. That's me also showing that I'm going to eat, sleep, and breathe those same values every day, all day, whether it's at work or whether it's at home. How do I make sure that my staff knows those values are there? CHANTELLE: So I think it's micro, it's a little bit of micro decisions along the way- CUPPS: Yeah. CHANTELLE: Yeah ... to make sure. But culture's a big thing to me because I get frustrated with companies that are like, "Oh, this is who we are," but then you start talking to people and they're like, "That's not how we are." Yeah. It's gotta go all the way down, and that means from the

front line all the way to the CEO level. CHANTELLE: Yeah. And I love to go into companies and ask front line or middle management, "What are your values?" CUPPS: And CHANTELLE: they'll all look around and be like that's what they say on the wall." No, tell me what you think they are. Yeah. And it's really interesting to see the disconnect between the two. And so I go back to as leaders, if you don't start that at the top and you show that, there's no way it's gonna funnel all the way down, and I think that's super important because that's where you're gonna build, y- your retention rates, your productivity. CHANTELLE: 27:23

All of those things correlate with the culture. If people are happy to be there, they're gonna be much more productive. I tell people, eight hours out of a day is a long time to be miserable, and I guarantee they're not the most productive individuals. So if you can build that culture around, agency. CHANTELLE: I used to not be one that cared about people's kids and all that. Yeah. Now I'm like, "Oh, Bobby's got a little baseball game. You need to cut out of here early to go see that." And they're like, "Wait, you're gonna let me do that?" Absolutely, because at the end of the day, if I care about the whole person- Yeah CHANTELLE: they're gonna be more productive and they're gonna wanna be there, and that's what we want as a culture. CUPPS: And can you instill that

change in companies that haven't been doing that? Or the CEO said, "Here's our values," and think that everybody else just lived them because he said it or she said it? CHANTELLE: I- I think you can. I can truly say I, I did that in my organization- Yeah. Yeah ... because my predecessor was all around fear. Yeah. Everyone, he wanted everyone to fear him. And when I came in and, I'm like, "Hey guys, I'm here," and they're like, "Oh my gosh. What's happening?" It took a while for them to believe that's how I was going. CHANTELLE: 28:23

Again, people have PTSD. They're gonna say we'll see if you survive." I'll tell you, Cupps, six months later COVID hit, and- Yeah ... we were drinking from a fire hose for years. I had s- 483 employees. I only lost two to traveling nurses, and I really think that's because of the culture that we had created. CHANTELLE: People had the opportunity to leave and go make more money, but they loved the culture that we had created 'cause they knew that we cared about them as a whole. Yeah. So I think it can happen. I don't think it's easy, but I do think it's important that if that's the type of, company you wanna run, you have- Yeah CHANTELLE: to establish that at the top and funnel it down. CUPPS: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's g- that's great advice. I really love this

conversation. It's ... I wish I could talk to you for another hour on here. But I do wrap up by talking about you personally, 'cause we o- we are The Habit Architect. What does Chantal do every day or every week non-negotiable? CUPPS: This is a habit that you do. CHANTELLE: So I have a one-hour meeting with myself every week. Oh, I love that. And that one hour is on my calendar, and I don't cancel it. It's a non-negotiable. And I tell people all the time, "I don't cancel meetings with other people. Why am I gonna cancel a meeting with myself?" CHANTELLE: 29:23

Yeah. And I might use that hour to go for a walk. I may go finish the emails that I haven't gotten to, but I know that I have at least one hour that I can breathe and do whatever I need to do to reset myself for a more productive person. And I'm a better parent, better, leader for that. And so that's my one non-negotiable. CUPPS: Oh, that's fantastic. I d- it just comes to mind that my one hour of clarity or something like that, that- Yeah ... that you make sure you have every week. I ... we interviewed a marriage coup- couple that does it's called intentional marriages, and they talk ... And one of the habits they talked about was a weekly check-in with spouses, right? CUPPS: Yeah. And that they had a structure to it, but doing that with yourself is a great reward. I hadn't even thought about that

as a recurring habit. Yeah. That's fantastic. S- congratulations on all the stuff, the book, the volleyball team, everything that you're doing. It's very exciting and I hope we can all stay in, in touch with you on that. CUPPS: How ... if somebody wanted to reach out to you and connect for various reasons, whether they're a CEO that needs help or any other reason how's the best way to find you? CHANTELLE: LinkedIn. Obviously, I'm on LinkedIn. You have some of the tickers on the bottom. My website, I have chantalpreston.com and also prestonpartners.net. CHANTELLE: 30:23

So feel free to look me up. And again, I appreciate you talking about The Success Lie. It's available for pre-order, will launch in July 28th. Oh. But love for the readers. It's gonna be very similar to what what we're talking about here. But again, I just, I wanna get as much out there as I can and make the biggest impact- Yeah CHANTELLE: because I do think it's important to have, these conversations and be- Absolutely ... normalize hard conversations is what I wanna do. Yeah. CUPPS: Absolutely. And you said it's on, it's up for pre-order now. And what was the launch date again for, CHANTELLE: July 28th. Nice. So Amazon, Barnes & Noble, all of those. CHANTELLE: Feel free to get on there. And like I said, I'm gonna have a few webinars between now and then- Yeah ... just so people can understand what it's about. But