From Swiss Army Knives to a Sharpening Business | Ken Lunder’s Journey

In this episode of the Knife and Tool Sharpening Podcast, Matt sits down with Ken Lunders of Maritime Sharpening in Halifax to talk about his lifelong journey with knives and sharpening.

Ken’s story starts the way many sharpeners do — fascinated with his father’s Swiss Army knife as a kid. From sharpening on oil stones and concrete as a teenager, to learning metallurgy as a diesel mechanic, to eventually building a sharpening business in Canada, Ken’s path shows how curiosity and persistence can turn a simple skill into a craft.

We also dive into:

• How Ken learned sharpening before YouTube and online communities
• Why understanding burr removal and geometry changed everything
• The difference between stones, belt grinders, and diamond plates
• Why beginners should start simple instead of chasing expensive tools
• The power of community and mentorship in accelerating your learning
• Why sharpening businesses don’t have to compete with each other

Ken also shares advice for anyone thinking about getting into sharpening:

“Just start. Learn the skill. The worst case is you gain a life skill you'll use forever.”

Whether you're a professional sharpener, a knife enthusiast, or someone thinking about starting a sharpening business, this conversation is packed with insights from someone who has spent decades learning and refining the craft.

Learn more and join the community at guildofsharpeners.org

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

The knife and tool sharpening podcast is made possible by the Guild of Professional Sharpeners, a community of knife and tool sharpening business owners who help each other achieve success as each individual defines it. Learn more at guiltofsharpeners.org. Okay, brilliant. Dude, it's already recording. So Ken Lunders from Maritime Sharpening in Halifax. What's up, man? How's it going, Matt? Always good to see you. Yeah, you too, dude. Ken, you and I, we've been together for a while. Uh, you're an amazing sharpener. I've learned so much from you, and I'm excited today to unpack your journey and how you got into sharpening and um and figure out where you're, you know, where you're at now, and maybe even dip into where you're going. So maybe we could start with uh yeah, I think this your story goes way back, right? In a childhood.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

So if you want to should we go that far back and drop into it and show maybe how some people are more infatuated than others. I think the journey for everyone is a little bit different. Firstly, yeah, same to you, man. Like, big respect, great sharpener, always trying new things, always here for the guys. It's nice to be able to sit down and have a chat.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Appreciate that again. Thanks, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

So yeah, man, like I think everyone's journey is different. Some of the guys on the guild are starting later in life, trying to learn a new skill and maybe bring in a little bit of money, maybe stay a little bit busy, maybe keep interactions going with um new people, sharpening at markets and all that stuff. For me, some of my earliest memories are knives. Like I've always had this issue with knives. So, from probably around about age of five or wherever you start remembering things, it's like five decades ago. My father and my grandfather had Swiss Army knives, and I was infatuated with them completely. I was always getting into trouble for trying to find them and take them out of desk drawer and all of those things. I incidentally have both of those knives with me still. So my parents bought me a cheap knockoff knife, and uh I asked my father, and he showed me how to sort of sharpen it, just doing circular motions on I don't know, man, like a two-sided oil stone of some sort that was probably horrible. I never really had much luck. I obviously didn't understand what I was doing. I didn't understand angles, I didn't understand burr formation, apex, or any of that stuff. But I endeavored to continue trying with these things, and I tried with stones and bricks and smooth cement and whatever, and I tried to sharpen everything I could get my hands on: knives, axes, the sickle, whatever. And they inevitably ended up getting thrown around the yard at logs and trees and doors and everything else. Going further forward a couple of years, we were given some stuff at school. It was like an art class or like one of those sort of classes where you learn like woodwork and art and basics of just hand skills. And we're given some plexiglass and told, you know, make something. This is how you cut it, this is how you sand it. I guess we're looking at maybe 10 years of age here. So I fashioned a double-edged dagger out of this thing, which I said was a paper knife for opening envelopes. Still remember that. So that stayed with me on an ongoing basis. And then we also did these school camps. And at one of these camps, one of my friends had a knife and he was sharpening it on a little stone. Kind of like um what was that guy? First blood, Rambo, that kind of thing with a little stone on the in the sheath of the knife, and he was cutting into the edge of the knife, sharpening it. And he obviously knew a little bit more than me because his knife was what felt at that point to be pretty sharp. So I asked him to show me what he was doing and how he was doing it, and he had a little bit more of an idea of holding a constant angle. I think he even might have spoken about getting a burr. I don't think we delved into removing a burr, but it kind of gave me a new perspective, and I started trying to adapt what I was doing to get better results. This is still early days at high school, so maybe I don't know, it was 13 years of age, maybe somewhere on there. Jumping further again. I worked as a diesel mechanic, I did an apprenticeship, always still sharpening stuff and whatever, trying to get best results, but I really didn't understand metallurgy either. I didn't understand that you had steels that could harden and steels that couldn't harden. And through working there, we would harden various things to make punches and chisels. Certain parts would get sent away for case hardening and like general hardening of whatever different parts are worth. And I was explained, like it was explained to me about carbon content and steel and iron and like different hardening processes and whatever. So I started to get an understanding about different steels and different hardnesses, and moving into tool steels being a completely different animal, which is really relevant because now a lot of knives, especially EDC knives, are made out of tool steels because they have that superior edge attention. Jumping forward a bit further. I'm working at a gearbox place. I get my first nice knife, which is a gift. Um, it's a global fillet knife that I still have. And I go and purchase a water stone, which is advertised as it was, I think, a Mennow Sharp. It's advertised with global and something you should use on their knives. A really soft 1000 grit stone. And I start sharpening that knife and other knives and talking to the guy that does the fitting and turning. We're sharpening drill bits, we're sharpening tools for the other guys, and I sharpen a couple of knives for this person and that person. I also start getting into cooking and start appreciating clean cuts in food and what the difference is of a thinner knife and a sharper knife. Still didn't quite understand geometry. I didn't understand that a thin knife is not wedging through stuff and breaking cells as it goes, breaking carrots and apples and things like that. But that all comes a little bit later. Then I start my own business doing signage, still sharpening stuff, a couple of EDC knives, still playing with that same stone, and then I get a I think it was a black Arkansas stone that was given to me very, very smooth. This stage, for some reason, I'm still not understanding exactly what a burr is. And I'm still thinking, which is a very common mistake with new sharpeners, that the higher you go in grit, the sharper a knife or a tool will become. So I'm using this fine stone, getting good results, but could be better as we find out where we start really learning what's going on at the apex of a knife. Then we move to Canada. I start working at Bass Pro. I start seeing all these beautiful knives in the counter, which is really nice. Get to play with them, I get to see some of the work sharp stuff, which is their belted system, which I really stayed away from at that point, and their diamond system. And for anyone wanting to get into water stone sharpening, I'd really recommend, I think it's called their benchstone sharpening system. It's a triangle with the ceramic and the two different diamond grits, and it kind of if you unlock it, it moves. So as you're moving a knife across it, if you accidentally tip it, the stone tips with the knife and you don't dig it into the edge. And I start sharpening for the guys at Bass Pro and one or two customers, and I start teaching them how to sharpen on that system, which is why I'd really recommend it for someone looking to get into stones. And then the point comes where I need to maybe start doing this for money instead of just doing it. I think it's round about that point where I see you on YouTube. At the moment, YouTube's become a thing. Um I'm looking to do this now professionally to make money. I'm realizing that while Stones gives me all the accuracy that I need, and it's got a wide surface, so you can get a nice profile on a knife easily, like much more easy than on a one-inch belt, where if you have any movement of the knife, you get an uneven bevel and you might hollow the back of the knife out. I think we still chatted about that quite a bit at some point. I've done a couple of customer knives at this point, bolsters that are hanging low, and man, it's not working on stones. That is, it's just not working. I borrowed uh like one of those uh hand belt sanders, turned it upside down, did some grinding, less than ideal, but it worked, and then finishing on stones, and then we chatted. I didn't really have a workshop at that point, and the tormax seemed like the way to go for no dust in the house, just nice cool grinding at a slow speed, and man, what a beautiful tool that is. It is made, it's exceptional. The jigs are beautiful brass inserts for the screws, it's an amazing piece of equipment, but very, very slow, and I think this is a common theme we hear on the guild as well. Um, I'm using the side of the stone to grind down bolses and try and correct profiles and stuff. And if the knife's got any kind of real damage, it's taking a long time to get to an apex and to refine it. And very often I'm not getting the results that I want in terms of a consistent profile. So I end up correcting using the side of the wheel and then going back to my coarse grit whetstones and working up on stones, and I'm finding that even though it's taking long, it's going quicker than it would on the tormic. I obviously hadn't gone through the full learning curve of it yet, and it's definitely not a high-speed grinder. Um, talking to you guys on the guild, talking to you, seeing what other guys are doing, it seems like it's time to move into some kind of machinery. So I go down the route of the 1x30. And this is awesome, and it's something. Well, I suppose before I got that, I got the work sharp Canned Onion with the blade grinding attachment, which was good, but I found it lacking for heavy, like heavy work. You can't really do an axe on it if you need to re-grind it all. Garden tools and stuff are a bit of a mission. So I buy a Rycon variable speed 1x30, and with the coarse grits, Cubitron belts, I'm flying through the heavy work. Um still difficulty, particularly with knives, with bolsters. I think this is an area where a lot of new sharpeners really, really struggle. You've got to take down that bolster, you've got to take down the material front of the knife and the back of the knife and create a new profile, and then you've got thicker material at the back. So by the time you've apexed at the heel of the knife, you've already apexed just in front of that, and you start hollowing it out again, and it's a nightmare as a beginner on a 1x30. But again, like talking to people on the guild, looking at YouTube videos, and that I kind of figured this out. And all this time, the most important thing's happening. I'm learning about geometry and removal. Burr removal being the most important thing. So everyone's got different techniques. I try this, I try that. Some work better than others. There's 100 guys on the guild, and there's probably 99 different ways to deburr a knife or a tool. I'm finding out more about geometry as well, thinning knives, making them work better, getting more customers. Things are progressing, and the learning curve is sort of exponential at this point. You've got information coming from multiple different sources. You learning by yourself through trial and error. You've got all the people on the guild, you've got all the people on YouTube. You just got to decipher what's going to work for you and what's not. And this kind of picks your game up, and you start getting really good results. And people are really impressed. And sometimes you impress yourself, you start whittling hair and trying all sorts of more difficult cut tests and things to push a limit and get sharper and sharper. And while this is happening on the machine side, I'm still sharpening with water stones. And I would really recommend people of whatever level of sharpening you're at, get some good quality water stones and learn that skill. It'll teach you so much about what's happening at the edge of a knife, it'll teach you hand-eye coordination, and the rhythm of sharpening on stones is very different to sharpening on machines. You can stand barefoot in front of your sink or your setup of whatever it is, and you can just get into it, and it's really like a grounding meditative space to be in. So yeah, try that. Really try that. I've also now gone the diamond plate route. Super steels really take a good edge on diamonds. Not all steels are the same, they don't react the same to different abrasives. You can get good results on probably any steel with any abrasive, but some definitely offer better results than others. And through learning the skills on the water stones, transferring it to diamonds has been very easy. And deburring, knowing about deburring, having learned about different stopping methods and having decent strops definitely helps get that edge clean. And then when you move back to the machines, you got this real good understanding of what's happening. You understand the geometry, you understand the burr, you understand the apex, you understand the grit. And altogether, that creates probably a better view in terms of sharpening and what you can achieve and offer. I'm still infatuated with knives of all sorts. I made my first knife at a forge called Goshen Forge exactly a year ago. That should open or is opening my mind to moving in that direction. That's good fun, man. I don't know what else do you want to talk about? That's the trip to where it is at the moment. My learning curve going from very, very slow, picking up slowly, slowly, slowly, joining the guild, finding YouTube, and accelerated learning, which never ends.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Yeah, I love that story, man. And uh there's a lot of coincidentally, my my young son rolled into my shop while we're doing this. So, like some of those things that you're talking about from the early days, uh, I think you know, we're doing that over here right now, and hopefully giving my son some awareness and excitement about knives and sharpening. What was funny when you were telling that story is I can remember my dad's Swiss Army knife. Like that came to mind uh exactly like very vividly. And I have an oil stone from him in a drawer over here. I almost went and grabbed it, but it's like totally dished out, you know, it's like yeah, it's it's um even you know, I got super high respect for my dad. He was incredibly talented and very hands-on. Uh, but the amount that we can learn in the sharpening space is tremendous. And, you know, you getting part of that from your diesel mechanic training and hardening tools and like all that combines, and and like knives are actually a very complicated product in terms of making, and then there's the the woodworking and the leather working that goes hand in hand with it. So I suspect there's not a huge portion of the population that really appreciates how much goes into a high-quality knife, and hopefully we're helping to spread that word a little bit by doing things like this.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

I also want to mention on this note now, talking about your son walking through and you teaching over that. There's one thing that's really stood out to me. Like within the guild, with the new guys coming in, the accelerated learning in terms of becoming competent sharpeners and growing their business is phenomenal. Having someone that can actually show you, I wish I had had someone that was really into it when I was younger. Do it like this, hold it like this. An hour once a month for six months with someone who knows what they're doing, will it take a decade off the learning curve. So your son's in a very fortunate position to have a very big shortcut.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

Yeah, for sure. Um yeah, you make some solid points there. For the people who really dedicate themselves and put the like everything in life, the more you put in is uh, you know, it's relative to how much you get out. So the the people who put the work into showing up on the calls and asking questions in the forum and working through and like doing the work in the courses, their growth is phenomenal. It's it is so exciting to see people within months making money, making a return, like happy with what they're building, enjoying their like the curiosity, like you're saying, like I'm whatever, 10 years in and I'm still experimenting nonstop with sharpening, like trying new things. Like, I don't think there's an end to that. So I don't think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

It is also always something new coming around the corner for you know, maybe sharpening knives and lathes will become a thing one day.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Yeah, exactly. But I really like that.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Yeah, for anyone not aware, like I I got a small lathe and uh I'm using that in my shop, and I've I haven't shared a whole lot about it, but I have shared a little bit and more in the guild than I have publicly, but it it it can be a very functional tool, and I'm trying to demonstrate that mainly to satisfy my own curiosity. Like a machinist lathe is a place that I find particularly interesting. So uh that's why I'm messing around with that.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

I think a lot of things in the knife space are personal curiosity. You want to buy the Japanese knife with the blue steel, you just have to know a better edge? Yeah, does it and there's no way to find out you sharpen other people's knives, but then they go home with those people and you never get to really use them and see what the difference is. Like, does a super steel on an EDC hold its edge that much longer? Is it that much better? And if only people knew if they only spent that money one time for a very nice tool of any sort, man, it's difficult to go back.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Yeah. Oh man, I would I was talking about this with Steve Harris as well. Like, how do we get high-quality knives in the hands of people? And it like we just gotta get them to understand it and feel it and appreciate it. And you like you said, you can't go back after that. Even in your own kitchen, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:38

One knife at a time. One knife at a time, you know.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Yeah, the other thing is uh you're my go-to guy for benchstones, and uh I've learned so much from you uh in that I really respect the work that you do on stones and how much you've put into learning about it and your willingness to share everything that you have learned in that space and encourage other people to get into it. There has been a lot of part of me wants to say renewed, but I don't know. Maybe it's just been exposed interest in benchstones as of late with the people that I talk to. And there is so much to learn. I just wanted to share that one of the you know tips that you have given me that has lasted with me is uh I think on a video in my shop one time I had the stones out, and uh, you're you're telling me how I need to lift the stone up. Like it was too low on my body, so my form was off. Uh, so by either raising my sink bridge or by changing my stance, I can get the stone to a more proper height so that I I have the a better consistency over the angle that I'm holding on the stone. I just want to share that. Yeah, right. Like do you yeah, like that. There's a lot of stuff like that that can come from surrounding yourself with people who are doing the work and who are proficient at it. And um, I don't know. I just kind of want to thank you for that. Like, share that nugget, and then uh it's one of those things you've shared that stuck with me.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

I think for me in my life, in my previous business, even in the mechanic shop. Well, suppose in the mechanic shop it's people want you to learn stuff because it helps them at the same time when everyone within that space can hold their own. Running my own business inside edge and trying to learn things, everyone's so guarded about their secrets, they hang on to the stuff. And at the end of the day, it brings the business like it brings everyone's business down because there's one guy that thinks he's doing it better, he can't grow because he's got no one to bounce ideas off, and everyone else is stuck 10 years ago because no one shared information along the way. And I find that with business, the more you can help other people grow, the more they'll help you grow. And it's the same as man, you want to go for a hike, you want to go for a bike ride, you want to do whatever you want to do that you really enjoy. Do you want to do it alone and then you've got no one to speak to about your experience? Or do you want to do it with someone and learn with someone and grow with someone and together help each other and grow together and enjoy the experience of growth?

SPEAKER_02 26:33

I love that. That is so valid. I'm just thinking, like being on the summit, just like sharing the view from the summit, you know, like I we can use that metaphor in business as well. Like when you achieve your goal, like you have but someone to celebrate it with.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Yeah, and it's not just saying, Oh, look at me, like I'm at at the top of where everyone else is. It's hey guys, like I climb it up this cliff. Here's a rope. Like, why don't you come and join me?

SPEAKER_02 27:01

Yeah, it's sweet up here. Yeah, and then the uh the other thing you make me think of is that is the scarcity versus abundance mindset. And uh real there really is so much to go around. It's not a zero-sum game where if I get some business, I'm taking it from someone else. Uh, it's actually like if my business does well, it draws more awareness to the sharpening space and all of our businesses do better. That's the philosoph I move through this journey with.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

I and by by by picking up the standard, people spread the word more and it it brings in more.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's the uh you know the rising tide floats all boats. So let's go in that direction, yeah. I don't know, is there anything else you're you're excited about at the moment within your own business, or um is there a a sharpening topic that you're pursuing out of curiosity at the moment?

SPEAKER_00 28:01

Um I can't say I'm pursuing anything too different right now in terms of sharpening. What I can say is all the new guys that are out there, try stuff, man. Don't get bogged down in thousands of different views of tools and whatever. Get the basics, like you really need maybe two tools to do almost anything. I would really recommend get a powered tool, just get a one by thirty, get a bench grinder of some sort, you can swap between a wire wheel for taking rust or garden tools, you can put on a cardboard wheel, a scotchbrite wheel, a felt wheel, you can do cleaning, deburring, and whatever on there. Get a couple of belts, you don't have to get a million, just get a couple, get a low grit, a medium grit, maybe a high grit to play with, and start. You can do a hell of a lot with just two machines.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Yeah, dude, you I meant to loop back to that because you shared your tooling journey, and as people find me and the content I put out, a lot of them reach out to me asking about tools. And the tricky thing about tools is that everybody's situation is depend is independent, and that like it depends on their space they have available, depends on their budget, depends on what they're trying to sharpen. So it's hard to just issue a blanket recommendation, and it's really I think involves some level of conversation. But to your point, between like I keep falling back to these two products that Worksharp puts out, which is the blade grinding attachment and then their precision adjust, which is a guided sharpening system. And it doesn't have to be those two, but it's a powered system coupled with a guided system. And those like you can really you can really build your foundations on that, and then decide, you know, maybe what the next problem is that you're trying to solve, and figure out what tool can help you solve that problem.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Plenty of people are ending their businesses with just those uh workshops.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

You can even go the roots of the workshop guided stone system for EDCs or whatever. Stick with that one brand. Their diamonds are really nice, in my opinion. They're abrasive, they don't leave horrible scratches, and that stuff's all very affordable.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Yeah. And it doesn't have to be the end game, right? Like you uh inevitably, hopefully, the curiosity bug gets you and you what you desire to try new things.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

So I think there are plenty of guys on the on the guild who've been doing it for five years, you haven't made any money yet. Yeah, for sure. Oh, look at that shiny thing.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Yeah, which is fun. It's nice to be able to be along for the journey with that stuff because there is a lot of nice equipment out there. Um, but it is we run out of space and money pretty quick when we're buying stuff. But the other thing I like to echo, like we talked about this with Buck as well, is that you don't have to have all that stuff. So don't feel intimidated when you see sharpeners that have all this equipment, because you just gotta understand that it started with probably one piece of equipment, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Everyone starts at the beginning. Yeah, exactly. There's no getting around you can accelerate the curve, but you have to start at the beginning. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

Yo, I feel pretty good about this, Candy. You are you cool if we kind of round this one out here?

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Yeah, for sure. I would just say, guys, do it. Just if you're thinking about it, just do it. What's the worst thing that can happen? You don't have to quit your job and start sharpening in one day, but just learn a skill.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Have some fun. I mean, what I mean, that's another great point, right? Like you uh, this the worst case is you learn a life skill. Uh, and I I say often, like, every human on earth, like that's a bold statement, and maybe someone could challenge me on that, but uses a cutting tool. Anybody listening to this is gonna have a cutting tool. And like, worst case is you learn a life skill, and you and then like you can pass it along as well.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

So um, yeah, there's there's there's there's actually one other thing you're talking about building the community of sharpeners and like having a network of sharpeners within an area. Don't be discouraged if there are other sharpeners close by you. It really doesn't matter. You're gonna find your own niche, your own customers, uh people that will gel with your mindset. There might be someone next to you that does only stone sharpening, and he's 20, 30 bucks a knife. You might be doing only machine sharpening. You deal with a different uh part of the public. Maybe you go into scissors for some reason down the line and you're doing fabric shares and beauty shares. Your businesses won't necessarily uh conflict with each other. And if you each got your own niche, you can uh bring yourselves together as a network. And if you don't want to do garden tools, you can send garden tools to the guy down the road, and he probably won't be set up for beauty shares because those two things might not go together that well, so he'll then send beauty shares in your direction. So be open-minded and do your thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

That uh yeah, I that is such a valid point, Ken. I think it's counterintuitive for people starting out to invite them to go introduce themselves to the other sharpeners around them. Uh, but your point is so valid, and that might be the best business decision that anyone makes starting up. And then the other thing, like this does come up a lot, and one thing that I share with people or that I do for them is just what's the population around you, and bounce that off of how many customers do you need to meet your revenue goals. And every time I do that, there it like you and however many people around you are sharpening, don't have the capacity to serve all the people around you. There's always room. That's a great thank you for highlighting that.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Yeah, yeah. Cool. Thanks for having me here. This is awesome.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

Yeah, for sure. I think we'll do it again sometime. Uh you're doing awesome work, and thank you so much. I'm so glad that you're part of my life, Ken.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Yeah, thanks. You too, man. You've helped me uh 10.