SNAP Fraud And The Cost To Taxpayers

A safety net is supposed to catch people, not trap them. We’re taking a hard look at SNAP—how it started, what it pays for, why it matters to struggling families—and why so many taxpayers feel burned when fraudsters treat it like an ATM. From a holiday check-in to a deep dive on policy and oversight, we unpack the messy reality: food insecurity, rising costs, and a program that runs on federal dollars but relies on states to police the details.

We trace the roots from Roosevelt’s temporary food stamp plan to Johnson’s permanent program and ask the question most people avoid: at what point does help become dependency? Along the way, we examine the benefits cliff that punishes families for earning slightly more, the uneven guardrails that let abuse slip through, and the emotional stories—both of genuine need and blatant misuse—that fuel public outrage. We also look at the dollars and data, comparing Pennsylvania and California caseloads and discussing how administrative complexity, weak verification, and political incentives allow waste to grow.

Then we get specific. Minnesota’s Feeding Our Future scandal exposed how pandemic-era flexibility opened the door to inflated claims and fake rosters, turning a child nutrition boost into a quarter-billion-dollar fraud. The lesson isn’t to starve programs—it’s to modernize them. We lay out solutions: smarter identity and income checks, cross-state data sharing, real-time fraud analytics, and time-limited support tied to training, apprenticeships, CDL programs, and short credentials that actually raise wages. Protect seniors and truly disabled adults, taper benefits as earnings rise to smooth the cliff, and tie state funding to measurable reductions in error and fraud.

If you care about hungry kids, honest taxpayers, and a safety net that works, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share with a friend who’s wrestled with these questions, and leave a review with the one reform you think would make SNAP fairer and stronger.

Go to studio411 facebook page for photos and a more in-depth conversation.

Transcript

Holiday Check-In And Rough December

SPEAKER_00 0:24

You're listening to Studio Four One, the True Crime Edition. And I'm one of the studio out of the Wyoming Valley, Northeast, Pennsylvania. Here is your host, Rich Copka. Another day, another dollar, another show here in the studio. Studio 411, True Crime Edition. I'm your host, Rich. Thanks for joining me on this December 24th, Christmas Eve, 2025, 2025, and feeling alive. How alive are you feeling out there? I'm feeling pretty good, be honest with you. For those of you who listened to the highway edition of Studio 411, I oh you all know I was not feeling all that hot, that great uh this month. I've been sick. Uh things just weren't good this month. This month was horrible. So hopefully with today, because I was supposed to work today, but I got it off. This is the start of something to come for 2026. I hope. Because it's uh December was nothing but a freaking shit show, that's for sure. That's all it was. Uh in every way, shape, and form. I had problems with my furnace a little bit, nothing major. Problems with that. Uh, I think that our washing machine is on the fritz. Uh, had issues at work. I was sick for the last three weeks. I'm just starting to get over this. And um it was just hellacious, you know. Uh, I think the best thing that we did, me and my kid, we went to see Friday Night Smackdown live. And it was good. It was good. It was a good time, it was fun. Uh, yeah, it was crowded. But I'll tell you what, I think that's where I got sick because that uh that Sunday, I was not feeling well at all. I didn't go to work Monday, Tuesday. I went Wednesday, Thursday, Friday turned out to be a shit show. And I was supposed to work Saturday, I did not. And uh I come back to work Monday, Tuesday, and uh here I am. Supposed to work today, but I got it off. And they don't call you, you know. I told them, I said, you know, uh, if I'm not needed, I'd appreciate Christmas Eve off so I could go to church and do this and get some stuff done, help the wife. And uh they said, Yeah, sure, we'll see what happens here. No call, no phone call or nothing. I had to stay out last night in my truck. So it's like, you know, I get up in the morning, they didn't send me a load. Nobody called me and told me, you know, you're good, you're good. Uh take the day off. Nope, I just went home, went to the yard, parked the truck, and came home. I expected a phone call to go into work, but I didn't get it. Excuse me. So I'm off for the next five days. Uh, there's a lot, uh, I wouldn't say a lot, but I was reading the newspaper uh this morning, and uh this article I pulled up from the 20th. I don't get to read the paper every day. Uh I do have the the e-edition where I just pull it up on the computer and uh I'm good to go there. But uh I didn't get to do that this week. Do I still have yeah, I still have the article up? And um it was uh it opened my eyes to to make me want to uh dig into this a little bit deeper. Uh I had a lot of problems with this over the years, and um it, you know, it I a lot of people do. And the problem I have with this is I'll I'll explain, but you know, the headline says uh this comes from the Times leader here, local in Northeast PA. Blue states shouldn't resist a fight against fraud. This is in the opinion section of our local newspaper. Uh I opened this up and I started reading a little bit, and what they're saying here is is that this the federal government wants statistics from the states as far as um how many people they have on SNAP benefits. Um this is also this is a hot topic right now, too, uh throughout the country, uh, because there's so many people out there that are really having a hard time uh paying their bills and putting food on the table. Um and you know, there's a lot of people that do need these benefits. They need the SNAP benefits, they need the welfare, and they also need the assistance for their health care. Um, this is all understandable if you need it. Uh I I I'm not talking about what what this article is is saying as far as um the states giving the government their statistics on what how many people in their state are receiving benefits. Um, I'm gonna talk a little bit about that because it has to do with what I'm gonna say here. Uh I'm always for helping people when they need help. And I don't agree with giving people these benefits when they don't need them. And there's a lot out there that are getting these benefits that don't need them. This is where fraud comes into place. And the main culprit from from what I researched here was in Minnesota. Uh tampon Tim. Yeah. So there was some some uh accusations up there, indictments thrown out, uh people uh pleading guilty to the charges. I'll get into that a little bit. Um but we all need help once in a while, and it it's warranted at times. And at times, people just take advantage to the situation, to the government. Um first off, what is what is this benefit? What is SNAP? SNAP, supplemental nutrition assistance program. This is what replaced food stamps. This program is for the folks who may need some assistance with the purchase of food for their families. Uh the average disbursement to families in 2024 was uh$188. Uh for me, that is uh not much. Not much. Um that might work for uh a family of maybe I don't know, not not much because I'll tell you what. Um my wife spends more than that a week for just the three of us in my household. So and and she really cuts cuts back. She probably spends about 300 uh at least a week on on food and necessities and cleaning supplies for the house. Now you can't buy cleaning supplies with the snap benefits. You can only buy food in certain foods, from what I understand, they uh they started monitoring and uh limiting what you can buy. Uh, I know when when you know there was times uh years ago when I'd go into the grocery store and there'd be somebody paying with their food stamps or their EBT card, whatever it is, their their government card, and they're walking out of there with porter house steaks and lobsters and and crab legs and shrimp, all kinds of you know, high-end food. And here I am busting my ass week in and week out to to uh grab two packs of hot dogs, a couple boxes of mac and cheese, and um that's the shit that pisses me off. And it's not right, to be honest with you. If if and then at the you know, the end of the month, the last week or two of the month, you don't have no food left in your house to feed your family because you spent all that money you got, whether it was$188 or$400, you spent it all on high-end food and you ate it in the first two weeks. Now you have no money to for the rest of the month. That's irresponsible. It's irresponsible by by the people receiving these benefits. And these people that excuse me, these people I see getting this stuff out of the grocery store, this high-end food, with these with these uh snap cards, or whatever you want to call it back then, they uh they look like they're they're more than than capable of working and holding a job. Uh, you know, I don't care if you're a single mother. Nowadays you can get a job online here to make a couple bucks. It's not that difficult to make a couple extra dollars a week or a month to help supplement your lifestyle or what you eat. Um, you know, a lot of times people ask me if I make money doing this podcast. And uh I don't. I don't make money doing this at all. Uh I wish I would make a couple bucks just to help pay for some of the platforms that I'm on and some of the equipment that I need. I mean, the two monitors I have, they're older than me. I that's what I'm using. You know, uh I bought a new laptop, I got a I bought a used uh uh desktop here, and I bought a used mixing board. Uh the only thing I bought new here is my microphone because you gotta have good audio. And um, but I'm not here to make a living at it. I'm not here to get rich off of it. Um, but at the same time, this is why I do the show to inform people of things like this that are going on. And um, I'm not gonna harp on this for too long because this is the true crime segment, and this is part of crime because there's fraud involved. But I got a case coming up that we're gonna dig into, and it's gonna be about two or three episodes digging into this case. I'll let you know what what we're gonna be talking about after I uh delve into this here. But let's look at when this all first started and why. Why why did we start uh implementing food stamps and these benefits? This started back in 1939 under the Roosevelt administration. He started this program to help people during the depression, and um it worked. Uh people weren't hungry. Uh then don't get me wrong, of course, there's peep some people out there hungry, but it worked to help people get some food. Uh it helped, it helped boost the economy a little bit, which it did. It kept some businesses in business because people were spending that them food stamps in them grocery stores or little mark markets back at the time. Um it was a temporary deal. It wasn't supposed to be a permanent thing, and it wasn't. Uh in 1943 is when Roosevelt stopped it during the war. Uh manufacturing picked up in the country, and uh people were getting getting back to work. Um, so he stopped the program. Um and that was a good thing. Uh uh, but then in 1961, President Kennedy he made a campaign promise to to uh this was called the food stamp plan to bring this back in certain areas of the comp of the country, and one of the areas was in West Virginia. Um was it what yeah, in West Virginia, and this was in 1961. I I under I I and I think that would have been uh the proper thing to do and the proper thing to keep to keep in in certain areas with these programs. Um but then over time it it still it never went away. Uh Lyndon B. Johnson uh he s he he got the program as a permanent, a permanent federal program uh on August 34th in 1964. Um this was uh a piece of his great society in war on poverty initiatives. So it's let's see here, where am I at? I gotta keep both of them going. So when this program first started, like I said, it was supposed to be temporary, helped during the depression, which it did help the economy. Uh 1943, it ended like it was intended to end. Uh it but here's my questions with this. Um was it the excuse me? Was it the right thing to make this program permanent? Uh by making it permanent, is it making Americans more lazy and dependent on the government? That is my biggest question with this whole thing. And I I believe it is. I think it is, definitely. Uh, it's making people more dependent on the government, that's for sure. Was this uh a plan as far as trying to possibly implement, start to implement the idea of socialism or communism in our country, especially socialism? Communism is kind of a far reach, but I I think socialism wouldn't be uh something that you wouldn't throw out of the realm of a possibility. You know, this is a way to possibly gain control of the people, let them be more dependent on the government. That's a possibility, but we don't know. We don't know. Uh is it helping the right people? That's uh a big question. Um I think that definitely the elderly uh should be getting these benefits no matter what your income level is. I mean, if you're a billionaire, obviously not. Um, you know, I I look at my my my stepfather when when my mom passed and he was uh 88, I think, 88, 89 years old when my mom passed and he couldn't work anymore. And he was he was a veteran, he was getting Social Security, but he he he was making too much in Social Security to get these benefits, and he wasn't getting a lot of Social Security. Uh, and where he lived after he sold the house, that that facility was taking a portion of his social security to pay the rent. So he was kind of left with oh, just I would say just about no money left at the end of the month by the time he paid everything. He had no money for everything anything. Uh we were constantly getting some phone calls, my me and my siblings, you know, you know, to help him out, which we did. We had to, we didn't have a choice in the matter, we'd starve to death. But you know, the elderly should be definitely getting these benefits. Um what about a family of four or five kids? Uh if the family is working, if they're both working and they're still struggling to put food on their table, I I believe they should get these benefits. Uh you you shouldn't punish someone for working hard and trying to do the right thing. Uh but at the same time, you have these families of four or five kids that don't want to work. Because if they do work, they're gonna get they're already getting these benefits. Because if they do work and they make too much money, they're gonna get these benefits taken away from them. And that is where I say that is where these families, these these parents, these adults are are being dependent on the government to to take care of them and it's a shitty situation because some some some of the folks do want to work and they want to get better but they're afraid to take that jump to take that leap into say into getting a higher education and possibly cutting their full-time job back down to part-time to better themselves but they can't because they can't afford it so now they're stuck they're stuck in this rut and they can't get out they're stuck in it and they can't get out of the rut so how do we fix this problem how what what do we do to fix this and it's a problem that there's no easy solution to this and it it's tough it it it really is tough i i have a good job uh i make good money my wife makes good money and but if i lose my job or if she loses her job we're screwed we we're screwed i'll i will not be able to retire i'll be working the rest of my life to sustain what we have and it's not nothing glamorous it's just a roof over my head and uh putting food on the table and trying to put money away for retirement and go on one vacation a year that is pretty much the extent of my life and this I I love being behind this microphone but my wife she's going back to school uh to uh get her master's degree uh but it's all online she's not gonna miss no work to to pursue that and what's nice about it is she works for a college and the college pays for a certain percent of it and she gets financial aid for the rest which we do have to pay back but that some of these people they can't even afford internet in their home and it's sad internet should be at this point in the game in the world internet should be accessible to everyone everyone the government wants to help out make internet accessible to everyone um and and just for this reason right here alone the you know the situation my wife is in she can go online and take her classes online to better herself right so that would give other other people access to that but the government I don't believe the government actually helps anybody pay for internet I think they do in some states they might I think they do but I think it's it it shouldn't be a question at this point in the game everybody should have access to the internet um for a lot of reasons you could do telehealth on there you you could do research on there to help find a job get yourself a job you could better your education through the internet there's so much you could do with the internet I could do this podcast and inform you great people out there of situations like this and I uh I'm just gonna leave it at that with the internet I don't want to delve too much into that because I didn't do a lot of re I did no research on the internet at all so but the they they are things that I think that should be accessible to to everyone not snap benefits or cash welfare cash assistance and this is where fraud comes into play because there's so many people out there that will uh fill out an application for their benefits and they'll lie on it and they get their cash assistance or their or their their uh uh their their food card I was watching a YouTube video the other day about uh Northern California how people lived up there and the one guy uh he has a job now he got a job he didn't like live like like uh living off of cash assistance and he did live off of cash assistance for a while and uh the guy doing the interview asked him well how do you get cash assistance if you don't have a permanent residency how how do you how do they mail you your card well he was saying all you do is you go to the post office and you fill out paperwork that you're not working and you give them the address of the postcard uh of the post office and you get your EBT card it's that it was that simple from what he says it was that simple that's insane that's insane it's like handing handing them out like like candy um it it it it's a it it it's a crazy thing um even oh where am I at if we can weed out the freeloaders in in all of this there would be more to go around for the people that really need it um you take away all the fraudulent people that are getting these snap benefits and this cash assistance how many hundreds of millions of dollars would be saved that could be dispersed to the people who actually need it a lot there'd be more to go around and I it the process needs to work the there's a process that was put into play when when this got got put in permanently to avoid fraudulent uh distribution of of these benefits but it comes down to greed in my opinion and not just greed by the people receiving them but I believe there is greed by some of the politicians out there in some of these states that that are getting this federal funding from the government to disperse this money to the people in their state now this is a federal program this is not a state program this is a federal program so the federal government they they disperse money to the states and the states make that decision on who who gets the the uh the assistance um which I think is wrong if if the federal government is issuing you the state that money the federal government are the ones who should be making that decision whether or not who's get who's getting that money who's getting that assistance um it's just like what I talked about with with the on my uh on the highway edition uh the federal government is funding the state to to take care of their roads and their infrastructure in their transportation industry but they have no say how that money's being spent or where it's being spent and that's exactly what's going on here and I think that is 100% wrong that's my money that's our money the people who are receiving these benefits they they don't pay taxes they don't make enough money to pay taxes so they're getting all of this for free all of it this is this is federal money they don't pay taxes because they're not making enough money to pay the taxes I forget what the threshold is it's like$25,000 if you make less than$25,000 a year you don't have to pay taxes that's federal I don't know about state I don't know I'm sure you're paying some kind of uh uh state tax uh on your on your uh if you're working I'm sure you are um let's start limiting the time that these people are getting these benefits for uh I know people that's been on them their whole life forever and I know people that has they have kids just to stay on these benefits it's a shame that you're that lazy that you're just gonna keep pumping out kids to stay on these benefits that's ridiculous uh I know someone that they have I think six kids they had six kids well they they have seven but at the time they only had six and when she had the sixth child she was told if you have another child and you you have this child either you're gonna die the baby's gonna die or you're both gonna live but that child is going to have uh mental problems they both lived and the child did have mental problems for you to bring a person into the world knowing that you don't deserve to get these benefits you don't deserve to to to live the way you're living because you're probably I know you're living high on the hog I know that the husband he works but it it's job hopper from job to job to job and and he's probably not working more than what he is working and when he is working I'm gonna be honest with you he's probably getting cash for what he's doing so he he they're living pretty good they're they're pretty living pretty good um like I said uh when when when I talked about the internet here it should be accessible to everyone and I truly believe it should be uh this this shouldn't be a privilege anymore uh the internet should be a right it's your right because it it's just so beneficial in so many ways um instead of if somebody's on these benefits let's let's say they're on um they're on the the welfare they're getting cash assistance they're getting um they're getting their their EBT card or snap card uh they have free health care which every kid in this country gets free health care through chip and I I believe the mother will get it too if she's a single mom I'm not 100% on that but but if we if they're getting all all of these things and it comes to the conclusion that okay you are able to work but you're not working right now so we will give you these benefits for for a period of six months but in by the time that six month period is up one either you have a job that is paying a decent wage or if you can't have a job have some kind of certificate to better yourself so you can get a decent wage and if you don't do either of the two your your your benefits are cut off you're done it it sucks because the kids suffer if they have all these kids and it does but that you have to draw the freaking line somewhere the line has to be drawn I'm sorry it just does there's just so much to this that is just insane it it it it really is it's it's all insanity um I I want to scroll down here and I want to let's see here so when I saw this this this next number I'm gonna throw out throw out there I I practically fell on the floor just about and um I I was I was just mesmerized by by this um one billion dollars in federal money is funding states to provide these benefits to their citizens their citizens the citizens of that state not that's my money going to California a portion of my money is going to California to to fund them for their fuck-ups because they can't they can't govern correctly that's what's going on okay that's our money that's our tax money okay this is the taxpayers money federal taxpayers money is funding states to provide these benefits to their citizens this is our money federal taxpayers' money this is the state's money this is not the state's money I'm sorry why is federal money paying states to take care of their people when they can't govern properly to keep these people off these benefits shouldn't that be the state's problem why why is it the problem of why is California's problem of unemployment or or poverty my problem it shouldn't be my problem my money that I pay federally should go to my state my state only to supplement to fund the SNAP benefit in my state not California that's the way it should work but that's not that is not what is going on why why why is this the responsibility of the national population to pay for this uh the federal government funds these states with way too much money let these states deal with their own problems I think that if you take this funding away from the states now the states pay for the maintenance the maintenance of their program of the logistics the states pay for that or they split the cost I think they split the cost something like that I'll get I'll get to that but I that's the way I think this should work if the federal government is going to fund the state then the federal government should determine who gets these benefits and who does not not the state this is where fraud this is highly potential for fraud right here and I'll get into where where this had taken place which I'm sure you've all heard about it most of us anyway around 2 million people in Pennsylvania received SNAP benefits uh representing about 15% 15% of the population one excuse me 1.9 to 2 million recipient recipients recipient participants Jesus including many children and seniors relying on the program for food assistance children seniors and children it's not the children that are relying well they are but they're not getting it because the parents are getting it and the parents are buying what they want to buy how many kids you know other than my freaking whack job son that likes crab legs and seafood at the age of five years old not many as the program is one hundred percent funded one hundred percent funded by the federal government with the state managing distribution to nearly two million residents including over seven hundred and thirteen thousand children and seniors for example in the state fiscal year 24-25 uh over 4.3 billion dollars 4.3 billion were issued the monthly impact roughly 366 million flows to Pennsylvanians each month for food that is insane that is an an insane number my question here is now how much of that is going to legitimate recipients that need it I bet you it's probably 5050 that number be cut in half if you started vetting all these people and started reducing getting rid of these freeloaders guaranteed guaranteed this number will go down and what could you do with that money like I said you could disperse it to the people that really need it give them a little more so they can freaking live some kind of life or invest it back in the federal government as far as maybe defense our infrastructure and our airports our rail systems our roads federal roads all that money could be reinvested back into the country that's a lot of freaking money man in California this is California this is where I was talking about this guy out there where I watched this YouTube video where he just goes to the post office fills out the card mails it in three days later he's got a food card in California Around 5.3 to 5.5 million low-income residents receive SNAP benefits. That's more than Pennsylvania, almost double. So say 50% of the people, 50% of the tax money generated in Pennsylvania is going out to California to pay for them people to get food stamps and possibly welfare. California as a major user of the federal food aid program. Major user. You think so? And I guarantee you most of these people are like in the highly populated areas like uh San Francisco, LA, uh San Diego. I'm sure that most of the people are from that area. Uh, with recent data indicating roughly a quarter of Californians in some areas depend on it. A quarter. Quarter of the people in some areas. The federal government provides 100% of the funds for the actual food benefits, like California's CalFresh, it's called out there, while splitting the administrative costs with the states. That's what I was saying before. They they split the costs of the administration, you know, how the people in the offices. But California has faced recent threats and legal battles over withholding these funds. The estimates suggesting potential annual losses of over$1.7 billion due to federal policy shifts, though courts have ruled to restore some funding in late 2025. What court? California court? Democratic state court? Is that the court that that uh that overturned that? Probably. Probably. Supreme Court isn't gonna mess with that. In 2025, California is projected to receive approximately 14, over 14 billion dollars in total funding for SNAP. 14 billion dollars. Administrative costs 1.29 billion dollars. This is fraud. This is where the potential for fraud comes into play, and I would guarantee you, guarantee you, that some of these politicians have their hands in the pot with this. Guaranteed. Without a doubt. Like they did up in Minnesota. No matter who runs these programs, the taxpayer is paying for it, whether the state or the feds run it. Uh us hardworking people, you know, uh, we're paying for it. Who else is gonna pay for it, right? Who else is gonna pay for it? The ones with jobs, the ones who have a conscience, who have some kind of conscience about doing the right thing for their family, for their communities. You know, don't get me wrong. You know, like I said, some legitimately need these benefits, but I I I I I think it's 50-50. I think 50% of the people who are getting these benefits need it, and 50% of them, that it's all fraud. It's all fraudulent uh uh documentation saying that they need it and they don't. They're more than able to get out and get a freaking job. And if you can't get a job, get two jobs. If you get one and you still can't afford to live, get another one. I worked two jobs for quite a few years when I first got divorced. And uh I barely made it, but I made it. Um the USDA wants the information to identify and weed out fraud. That doesn't seem unreasonable, does it? It doesn't, and it shouldn't. The state should hand this information over with no qualms whatsoever. None. And if you don't want to hand it over, your shit should be stopped just instantaneously because you're getting funded by the federal government, and they want to know where this money is going. As the feeding our future scandal in Minnesota showed, there are criminals ready, excuse me, there are criminals ready and willing to steal from poorly run welfare programs. And that's what's going on. It's not just in Minnesota, them sorry bastards just stole so much money and they got caught. What is defeating our our future scandal? What is this? Defeating our future scandal is an extensive federal fraud case in Minnesota involving the theft of approximately$250 million in taxpayer funds. It is recognized by the Department of Justice as the largest pandemic relief fraud scheme in the United States. That's where most of this probably started with this fraud with these SNAP benefits and uh cash assistance. It was during COVID. A lot of people said they needed this, they needed that, which a lot of people did, probably more than not. But the ones that got it, they didn't need it. This is the scheme. Here's the scheme. The scheme exploited the federal child nutrition program, which was expanded during the COVID-19 pandemic, to allow more flexibility in feeding low-income children. Nonprofit sponsors, the Minneapolis-based nonprofit Feeding Our Future, led by Executive Director Amy Bach, acted as a sponsor for dozens of local sites. Falsified claims. Defendants submitted fraudulent invoices and attendance rosters for millions of meals that were never served. One site claimed to serve 2,000 children. Never did. Where's this money? Where did it go? Where'd this money go? I know where it went. It went into the pockets of the politicians up in Minnesota. That's where it went. It went into that lady's pocket right there, that Amy Bach. And there's no way in hell you're gonna sit here and tell me that's not going on in other states. No way in hell. It's going on, folks. And we have to put an end to it. We have to put a stop to it one way or another. What is the best way to put this to an end? I don't know. I don't know. Education. Get these people educated so they can get a better job. And sometimes, you know, a college degree isn't worth shit. Let them learn a trade. Get them a CDL. Go to uh welding school, electrician school, plumber. Go to be a chef. Do something. Get some kind of education. Stop being lazy. This is all I have on this subject here. I'm not gonna talk about this anymore. Uh it this this kind of stuff really it bothers me big time because I mean there's several reasons why it bothers me. One is it it's my money. It's my money, it's your money, taxpayers' money, hardworking men and women out there. And we have no say what our government does with this money. That's the first problem I have. And the second problem I have, there's no effort by the federal government to try and attempt to better these people with an education. There's not no effort whatsoever. You're gonna give them financial aid to go to college for a degree that they probably aren't even gonna use, and they have to pay the money back anyway. I'm Rich Kapalka. This is Studio 411. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, Facebook, mainly Facebook, and uh, you know, if you're listening to me on YouTube, uh please hit that like button, hit that share button, and subscribe to my channel. Uh if you're listening to me on Spotify or any other platform, please hit that donate button, give me a review, let me know what you think of the show. All that helps me out big time. Big time. I'm your host, Rich Capalka. Thanks for listening. Merry Christmas, happy new year, stay safe, don't drink and drive. Stay safe. I'm out of here. I'm your host, Rich. Once again, thanks for listening. I really appreciate everybody who tunes in. Have a great, happy new year and holiday season.