010: From Beckham to Messi—How Superstars Are Shaping MLS

Messi is rewriting the playbook for Major League Soccer in the US, but is his presence enough to make the league a global contender? We’re diving into the impact of big-name players in MLS, why the league struggles to keep young talent, and how the 2026 World Cup could be a turning point. Plus, the wild backstory on David Beckham’s MLS ownership and why Messi’s bodyguard might be the fittest guy in soccer. 

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Chapters

• 03:33 – Sports that should be Olympic
•  12:30 – Paul Schleinz, soccer coach & saint
•  21:22 – Why Americans ghost MLS teams
•  24:51 – Messi, Apple, Beckham, and $$$
•  30:57 – World Cup 2026
•  39:33 – Messi joins the GOAT club
•  42:39 – Danita Johnson is making moves 

Transcript

Speaker 3 (00:00.0)
how funny it is to watch the videos of Messi's bodyguard. Did you ever see those? Apparently his bodyguard like runs the sideline of the field while he's playing because people are always trying to run onto the field to get to it. 

Speaker 1 (00:17.656)
He's got to be in as good a shape as Missy. 

Speaker 3 (00:20.554)
he's yeah, he looks ripped, but there was one kid messy. Let him take a selfie with him. And then the bodyguard was like, OK, let's go. 

Speaker 3 (00:30.562)
Have you ever wondered why people get so hyped about their favorite sports teams? Well, it turns out it's not just about the game. It's about the community. My name is Teryn. 

Speaker 1 (00:39.958)
And I'm Ambre. Welcome to Almost Fans, the sports podcast that's fun, a little bit educational, and will give you plenty to say when you're trying to keep up with those diehard sports fans in your life. 

Speaker 1 (00:56.142)
Hey there, Almost fans. Welcome to the show. Today we are lacing up for a deep dive into Major League Soccer. We've got a special guest and all the must know updates from the world of MLS. But before we hit the pitch, which is the word for soccer field, it's time for our hat trick segment. Today's topic is the top three sports that we would add to the Olympics. Teryn, kick us off. 

Speaker 3 (01:25.12)
Okay, so this takes me back to my campus rec days of being a supervisor of club sports. This is a club sport in many, many colleges around the country. And you are going to laugh when I say this probably, but it is quidditch. Have you ever seen some college kids running around with brooms between their legs? 

Speaker 3 (01:53.752)
passing a volleyball or a quaffle, tackling each other while dodgeball players, the bludgers, try to knock them out. And then the snitch, you know, the snitch from Harry Potter, gold ball that flies around. This is a neutral player dressed in yellow with a tennis ball attached to their shorts. And if you catch them, it ends the game. It's crazy. It's chaotic. 

Speaker 1 (02:04.718)
I a little. 

Speaker 3 (02:20.428)
It's athletic and honestly hilarious if it was on an Olympic scale. Also, I am not going to make fun of these people because they are intense about their quidditch and they will find me and I don't want that. No, it is actually pretty awesome. 

Speaker 1 (02:35.662)
I really need to watch that sometime. I'm going to Google that. Quidditch. Got it. My number three is Ultimate Frisbee. yeah. Super popular. Also a club sport. Actually has an international governing body. I have seen some Ultimate Frisbee games in my life, even by semi-amateurs and the level of athleticism is impressive. 

Speaker 3 (02:45.174)
Yeah, that's great. 

Speaker 1 (03:04.27)
So there's all these different pieces of terminology, ways that you can throw the frisbee. It's very artistic and scientific. There's things like the hammer throw, the scuba throw. Scuba. then scuba. Yep. Don't ask me to describe that. I've already forgotten how it goes. And then there's a lot of diving catches. I think that's my favorite is when you see somebody who just lays out. So a layout catch is what this is called. It's like amazing to watch somebody successfully do that. 

Speaker 3 (03:33.344)
And side note, have some friends who are really epic Ultimate Frisbee players and we are working on getting them on the pod so we can learn all about it. can learn what a skipper is or whatever you just called it. Cool. Okay, my number two is Ultimate Tag. That's exactly what it sounds like. Think your childhood game of tag, but... 

Speaker 1 (03:53.39)
Is that what it sounds like? 

Speaker 3 (04:01.152)
at a wild professional level. It's inspired by parkour, an obstacle course. Obviously. There are professional tag leagues and they've sprung up all over. Competitors are chasing through elaborate arenas filled with bars, platforms, and ramps. 

Speaker 1 (04:06.754)
I was going to ask if there's obstacles. 

Speaker 3 (04:20.738)
Truly it only lasts like 20 seconds per round because it's that intense and people are that athletic but it makes for a perfect an Olympic event because it's just super high speed super high drama and There's some crazy white boats. So I want all I want ultimate tag 

Speaker 1 (04:36.802)
That 

Speaker 1 (04:37.072)
sounds amazing. I'm also picturing that as you're learning to be an ultimate tag athlete, there's got to be like all sorts of skill-based evasion training, know, like those really crazy like, know, like when you kind of like round out your body and try to avoid somebody as they swipe their hand by. I've never heard of that. So that sounds fantastic. Let's do that. My next hat trick sport I would like to actually bring back to the Olympics is tug of war. 

Speaker 3 (05:09.262)
There's a really old black and white videos of people pulling. 

Speaker 1 (05:13.742)
Yeah. 

Speaker 1 (05:14.542)
Yeah. it was, it was part of the Olympics from 1900 to 1920 ish. And in 1904 was the first time the U S was hosting the Olympics where there was tug of war and the gold medal team was from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. How cool is that? Oh, wow. That's great. listen to the 

Speaker 3 (05:35.128)
Where there's a hole in the middle and they fall in. 

Speaker 1 (05:38.19)
I don't believe so. I don't think there was any holes or falling, but listen to this. So there was controversy and this is part of why it got nixed. So in 1908, the Olympics were in London and the Great Britain team was made up a hundred percent of English police officers. Okay. Like athletic dudes. Okay. The controversy is the fact that it was later found out that they were wearing heavy sold 

Speaker 1 (06:08.012)
boots that gave them an unfair advantage. And the US and some other teams quit or whatever the word is walked out, refused to participate. So there was all this controversy that was 1908. And then a couple of Olympics later it got cut. It was part of track and field and there was just some really cool stuff coming into track and field. So they said, you know what, we're just going to cut out the tug of but I think they should bring it back. 

Speaker 3 (06:32.012)
That's so funny. That's such an easy way to control it. You have to wear these certain types of shoes. You can't wear a loaded bat. You can't use a loaded bat when you're... 

Speaker 1 (06:40.376)
It's all like. 

Speaker 1 (06:44.206)


Speaker 1 (06:44.506)
You just got to weigh your equipment before you walk out. Exactly. There's an organized competitive sport nationally, internationally with leagues and championships. It's all there. Just let them back in, Mr. and Mrs. Olympic Committee people. 

Speaker 3 (06:59.694)
to the IOC right now. Okay, well, you're gonna love my last one. My number one sport that needs to be added to the Olympics is life carrying. 

Speaker 1 (07:11.884)
wife carrying. Is that what it sounds like? 

Speaker 3 (07:14.016)
A 

Speaker 3 (07:14.126)
real sport. All of these are exactly what they sound like. Okay. It originated in Finland. It involves men carrying their wives or a willing teammate. It does not seem your wife, guess. Through intense obstacle courses of water hazards, sand traps, hills, and the most common technique for holding said wife is called the Estonian carry where women 

Speaker 1 (07:18.702)
Okay, I need more details. 

Speaker 3 (07:41.3)
hang upside down on the man's back and their legs are over their shoulders. The best part, the grand prize, that you get your wife's weight in beer. 

Speaker 1 (07:48.278)
I wildly uncomfortable. 

Speaker 1 (07:57.502)
Woohoo! All right. So, the heavier your wife. Yeah. 

Speaker 3 (08:02.394)
more 

Speaker 3 (08:03.194)
beer you get. there's no, no. really figured that one out. and I'm not a wife, but maybe I can find myself a man this way. I just feel like maybe this, although the head rush doesn't seem worth it. 

Speaker 1 (08:05.518)
There's many levels of strategy there. 

Speaker 1 (08:18.51)
Can I, so I'm envisioning what this body positioning is going to be like, and that's got to mean that the woman has got her face in the booty, right? 

Speaker 3 (08:28.89)
No, 

Speaker 3 (08:29.131)
I'm picturing, I'm picturing her hanging backwards with her legs this way, like over his shoulders. That's what I'm picturing. If, if your legs are going to bend over the 

Speaker 1 (08:36.296)
She's like, could be wrong. 

Speaker 1 (08:41.582)
And then she's got to use her quads the whole time. I feel like you go the other way and just like use the person's joints to your advantage. 

Speaker 3 (08:47.982)
Possibly I could be totally wrong. I did not look up a picture of what the Estonian carry is 

Speaker 1 (08:54.766)
I'm 

Speaker 1 (08:55.826)
so interested. 

Speaker 3 (08:58.092)
Yeah, I will now because I just thought that's what it was. That's what my brain went to. But now I think I could be wrong. And I don't certainly don't want to put my nose in anyone's boot. 

Speaker 1 (09:07.79)


Speaker 1 (09:08.25)
I mean, maybe for the right person could make an exception. That's My third and final, my number one sport that I would like to be included in the Olympics is dodgeball. 

Speaker 3 (09:22.254)
But yes, 

Speaker 3 (09:22.545)
that's a good one, that was on my list. 

Speaker 1 (09:24.558)
The five D's are dodge, duck, dip, dive, and? Dodge. Dodge, of course. Yeah. 2004 movie, so excellent. But dodgeball, mean, this, okay, so this sport just smells all like nostalgia to me. Smells like gym class in the best possible way. I was a decent dodgeball player because I paid attention and I tried really, you know? There was like the dudes who tried and then there was the girls and they didn't and I did. 

Speaker 1 (09:51.854)
Yeah, you know, and like you just got to hold onto a ball so you can block, right? know, because then it doesn't count if you use the ball to block. Anyway, I wasn't a super fast thrower, but I was, was crafty enough, but you know, it's all about strategy, agility, anticipating your opponent's moves, communication and collaboration with your team. I had to remind myself because it's been a hot minute since I looked at or remembered anything about this sport. There is a world. 

Speaker 3 (10:11.534)
I everybody knows what dodgemall is, Ambre. 

Speaker 1 (10:21.336)
Dodgeball Federation. I'm sure. So Dodgeball has got to come back. 

Speaker 3 (10:26.894)
have to tell you a story about dodgeball. So when I was like in high school, think my dad, me, my brother, my two girl cousins and their mom, we all went and did a dodgeball tournament. And it was like a bunch of adult men playing in this dodgeball tournament. And then it was like me and my brother and my two girl cousins who were teeny tiny. And we crushed everyone and someone there. 

Speaker 3 (10:52.042)
I will never forget this till the day I die, there was a man there who came up to us and was like, you guys are like the manning family of dodgeball. 

Speaker 1 (11:01.76)
What a compliment. You should have kept that going. 

Speaker 3 (11:09.166)
was like these four children. 

Speaker 1 (11:12.302)
I mean, you're a smaller target, you know, so that that's true. 

Speaker 3 (11:15.011)
We crushed it. 

Speaker 3 (11:19.79)


Speaker 3 (11:20.151)
We were athletic children, we like would throw it decent, you know, like hiding in the corner. So funny. 

Speaker 1 (11:28.258)
I love that. So this is not part of my top three, but I just want to cheat for a moment and say how excited I am for the 2028 Summer Olympics when flag football, both men's and women's is included in the Olympics. We're going to do an episode on flag football coming up in the future. So get excited about that and also stay excited to be able to watch some amazing flag football athletes in the LA Olympics 2028. 

Speaker 3 (11:43.822)
Don't. 

Speaker 3 (12:00.684)
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Speaker 1 (12:30.702)
All right, friends, here we go into our main event of today's episode. We're breaking down MLS, that's Major League Soccer. And to help us do that today, we are so excited to be joined by a special guest. His name is Paul Schleinz. Born and raised in Wisconsin, Paul has been kicking, coaching, and probably shoveling snow off a frozen soccer field for... 

Speaker 1 (12:56.63)
likely most of his life. I'm looking out my window right now. There's like six inches. He's like, yep. We have a coaching resume that spans a bunch of levels like D1 college, Olympic development, and every single youth level imaginable, including the youth levels of my three kids. He's basically the Swiss army knife of Wisconsin soccer. Welcome to the show, Paul. We're so excited to have you. 

Speaker 2 (13:21.452)
Yeah, thank you guys for the invite and for having me. I'm excited. 

Speaker 1 (13:24.952)
Paul, what's your favorite part of coaching? 

Speaker 2 (13:26.798)
Being able to connect with all different types of people. It really is a great vehicle to bring everybody together and people that maybe traditionally wouldn't meet or see soccer is a great place to bring all different types of people together and to me that's the real joy as well as connecting with kids and families from all different parts of the world and all different types of backgrounds. 

Speaker 1 (13:49.038)
So when we first hopped on, I commented on your hair because there is much less of it right now. But can I ask you, I remember last season, you saying that you had placed a bet with one of your teams. It involved your hair. couldn't remember if it was cutting or growing or a color. What was that bet? Remind us. And did you win or lose? 

Speaker 2 (14:06.486)
Yeah, so that one was a little bit of a separate deal, but yeah, that was with the high school boys. We had kind of made a little bet saying that if they got or won a specific amount of games or won a tournament that I would be willing to grow out a mullet, you know, for my humiliation, which they were all love that, that little motivational piece. so they ended up not winning the, the, the, event, but at the same time, it was just a fun little thing that, you know, I figured would help motivate them a little bit. So I ended up. 

Speaker 2 (14:35.15)
growing my hair out because I'm getting to the point where I'm getting a little patchy and bald up here. figure I only got one more chance to do it, so I might as well try and grow it out. So yeah, I figured after the holidays, getting together with family and that, eh, know, it's probably best I cut it. 

Speaker 1 (14:49.612)
Yeah, that's fair enough. That's awesome. 

Speaker 3 (14:51.534)
have a question about this because I'm already thinking about my experience as a child doing, you know, the, called it AYSO and some people call it ASO soccer or whatever, when I was growing up in Michigan and it's how, I mean, I, I have a three year old, so I haven't gotten to this point quite yet with kids in sports, but like, how do you coach kids this age? It's just like pure chaos. you... 

Speaker 3 (15:16.204)
Someone who just likes that, are you like thriving it? Is it something that you just know that you can handle? What is it? 

Speaker 2 (15:24.102)
It takes a lot of patience, you know, being parents, you you have to have a lot of patience with it. But, you know, for me, it's really just about transmitting that love and passion for the game. I think that's really where it starts and really just creating a culture where kids can just come play, be themselves and enjoy the game. And starting with that, think is really the most important thing, not making things too complicated or structuring things too much, allowing parents to be a part of that process as well, too, because, you know, they're the ones that have to drive the player to the practice. 

Speaker 2 (15:52.827)
facilitate all those things. So for me, it all starts with those two things. 

Speaker 1 (15:57.358)
Paul started answering that question with the word patience. And can I just tell you from having witnessed Paul's coaching, patience is the name of the game. I mean, you just watch and this man is like, okay, so I see you putting that soccer ball in your shirt, but actually soccer balls go on the ground. thank you. I understand. That's a really, that's a really great point. I'm so excited to know about the tooth fairy, but right now we're going to talk about the soccer move. I mean, it's just constantly redirecting, redirecting, redirecting, oozing. 

Speaker 1 (16:26.52)
Patience. The man oozes patience. 

Speaker 3 (16:29.304)
Yeah. 

Speaker 2 (16:29.614)


Speaker 2 (16:29.915)
I was lucky. learned from two great parents about what it means to be patient. So I learned that definitely from them, that's for sure. 

Speaker 1 (16:37.454)
So I wanna dive into a little bit more about our topic at hand, which is MLS. That stands for Major League Soccer. So I'm gonna go ahead and try to break down for our brand new viewers to professional soccer, sort of what the MLS is and where it sits in the greater scheme of international soccer. So there are a ton of soccer leagues all over the world, something like 200. 

Speaker 1 (17:03.422)
MLS is one. It's the soccer league in the United States. So for example, you've got the Premier League and the Championship League in England. Those are some of the most widely known leagues and teams. You're going to recognize names like actually, Teryn, can you name any teams real or fictional from England? 

Speaker 3 (17:26.958)
Well, fictional. would be my, what is it from Ted Lasso? They're the... 

Speaker 1 (17:35.438)
Paul, this is her favorite show in the world. 

Speaker 3 (17:37.134)
Yeah, I know, but it's been like two years or three years since I've watched it. okay. You're catching me off guard here. 

Speaker 3 (17:46.323)
I know. 

Speaker 3 (17:49.774)
That's the only one I care about. 

Speaker 1 (17:52.418)
Are you a fan of Ted Lasso? 

Speaker 2 (17:53.966)
fantastic show. was after the show ended and they ended it so well. was so hopeful that I would do a spin-off series with maybe Keeley and some of the other characters but hopefully we will have that in the next few years here. 

Speaker 3 (18:05.262)
think they 

Speaker 3 (18:05.663)
have said they are. Who has confirmed? I don't know, but they are working on something. So I guess I'll have to get my Apple TV back. 

Speaker 2 (18:15.586)
Yeah. 

Speaker 1 (18:16.366)
Teryn and I share a workspace and some supplies and they're all Ted Lasso branded. So anyway, we're super fans. Okay. So other teams that you might've heard from, from these really famous English leagues, there's like Manchester United, Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, a bunch of really popular teams come from this one league out of England. In Italy, there's, I don't even know how to pronounce it, Serie A basically. Serie A, I think is how you pronounce it. So that's what's in Italy. 

Speaker 3 (18:43.72)
as a professional. 

Speaker 1 (18:45.26)
Yeah, Paul, how do you pronounce that? 

Speaker 2 (18:47.543)
Syria out. 

Speaker 1 (18:48.718)
Wow. There we go. In the neighborhood. I'm going to be phoning you all day. So get comfortable. Fantastic. Germany has Bundesliga. Did I get that one? Fantastic. On and on. there's over 200 professional soccer leagues all across the world. That's just a couple. Based on a really quick search, I saw that MLS ranks about number nine out of 200 and numbers one through eight. 

Speaker 2 (18:50.35)
You know, you're a phone and a friend, it's all right. 

Speaker 2 (19:01.432)
Yep, nailed that one. 

Speaker 1 (19:16.79)
all from Europe for sure. European soccer league's just been around a lot longer than the US. So Teryn, buckle your seatbelt for this. I'm about to break down a little bit more about the personalities of these leagues by comparing them to famous singer songwriters. okay. okay. Premier League is like your fiance. Longevity. Been around 

Speaker 3 (19:43.981)
la 

Speaker 1 (19:46.734)
crushing it, making a bunch of money and just doing really quality work for a very, very long time. History, longevity. La Liga, Spain is like Miss Taylor Swift. Storytelling, obsessive, fan base, flair, drama, like Messi versus Ronaldo, all of that lived in La Liga. Messi is now with the US. 

Speaker 1 (20:13.1)
So huge, massive global moments and a lot of emotion is La Liga. Okay, Paul, do the Italian one again. Yeah, 

Speaker 2 (20:21.675)
Syria 

Speaker 1 (20:23.197)
that one is like Madonna. So a legend, yes, and really dominated in the 90s and early 2000s like Madonna ruled pop music for decades, right? And while this league is still doing some cool stuff, they have a super loyal following. 

Speaker 3 (20:26.018)
Mmm. 

Speaker 1 (20:42.734)
but they're not quite exactly as influential as they used to be. Finally, MLS. So here in the USA is like Billie Eilish. 

Speaker 3 (20:52.59)
Oh, okay. Young and up and coming. 

Speaker 1 (20:55.838)
Exactly. Young, up and coming, redefining some of the rules, making waves. Started as an underdog, but has carved out sort of their own unique space in the world, doing things a little bit different. Fresh energy, smart moves, and a really growing loyal fan base. That's some of the four of the global leagues sort of broken down by pop stars. 

Speaker 1 (21:22.818)
Let's kind of stay with this theme, Paul, before we really get deep into MLS, tell us why is it, why do you think that Americans watch European football or soccer more than they watch American MLS soccer? 

Speaker 2 (21:37.806)
There's a lot there to unpack. I think though it kind of just, starts with the most basic thing and it's the players. I look at me and what I'm a fan of or was a fan of as a child. And I come from a family, was massive Packer fans and we are to this day, massive Packer fans. But every year for Halloween, I would dress up as Barry Sanders. I'd go as Barry Sanders. I love the Packers, but yet I wanted to be Barry Sanders. wanted to play like Barry Sanders. so I think kids in their fandom, 

Speaker 2 (22:07.084)
have a lot of that, right? Like maybe the dad is a supporter of the Columbus crew, because he went to college in Columbus or something like that. then, but yet he's a fan of Messi because he loves the things that Messi does individually. And so I think the MLS, there's a lot of potential there for the MLS to kind of grow on that. But I think when you look at the European game, they also have that because of the tradition, like you said before, the English game that, you know, they have also fan bases that are really loyal to a community and to a club, but those 

Speaker 2 (22:36.462)
clubs and communities really find specific players that fit that culture of what they are. I think with the MLS though, they're still trying to find that identity of what each team kind of is and what's unique about their community and what their culture is at the Columbus Clue and what's different than the Chicago Fire, different than, you know, the Charlotte Battery or whatever. So I think that's kind of the challenge that MLS has in that respect. And I think the more players that we can bring in that 

Speaker 2 (23:04.76)
personify the culture that those clubs want to be, I think you'll have that growth of the game. So I think finding that right fit is really important, if that makes sense. And I think the US is getting there by bringing in players like your Messi's and so it's really cool to see the Amalas kind of learn from that and say, hey, maybe we can grow the league more by bringing in some of these players. 

Speaker 3 (23:27.464)
Yeah, that interests me because I was reading that the MLS had some like record attendance last year and rising sponsorship. is it even I mean, obviously, Messi came here. But is it really possible for us to get a lot of those really great athletes if our funding is just so much lower? Right. The money in the Premier League and all that is so much higher than the MLS. So, I mean, is there even an incentive for these great players to come here? 

Speaker 3 (23:55.468)
What was messy's incentive to come here? 

Speaker 2 (23:58.23)
Apple TV, to my knowledge, Apple TV gave Messi a percentage of every ticket sale and every subscription from Apple TV. he not only makes his base contract, but in order to negotiate for him to come over, they said, well, the Saudi league was willing to pay Messi up to a billion dollars. How do you compete with that? So Apple and the MLS got together and said, well, why don't we give him a profit share of our revenue? 

Speaker 2 (24:23.276)
to convince him to come to our league. I don't know what Messi makes every year. would guess, let's just throw in about a hundred million dollars a year in his base salary from the MLS, but then he makes a commission per se on those subscriptions of people buying Apple TV and watching games. And it's not just for inter Miami games. He gets a percentage on every viewership. So it could be a game between Chicago Fire and the Columbus Crew. Messi gets a piece of that. 

Speaker 2 (24:51.106)
financial pie. So that's great, but it's also kind of a slippery slope in the fact that you can really only do that to a handful of elite players. think the real strength that the English league has and a lot of the other leagues that we've talked about over in Europe is they consistently have a spring of players that come through. They have a developmental system below the league that really cultivates talent and makes it sustainable for the league to continue to be really strong. You look at the NFL. 

Speaker 2 (25:17.71)
You know, we have the college model, but behind that, that produces the players to then go into that, to that league and become the Patrick Holmes, you know, player. so we in the MLS don't really have a system outside of our national program that's consistently producing players to the level that we need them to, to kind of refresh our ranks, if that makes sense. Now the U S is there, but just not to the level of development that, that, that the English are. And so we'll, get there. It just might take us, you know, 20, 25 years. So. 

Speaker 3 (25:46.798)
I have one more other follow-up question to that. So you mentioned college and obviously we have soccer in college, but do you ever think about this? Cause I did an internship in college with the athletic director at my college I went to and she did a whole project on title nine. And I think it's interesting how one of the first teams to go when it comes to like trying to even out men's and women's sports is men's soccer. 

Speaker 3 (26:16.012)
So is that part of the reason? Like, is there just not enough men's soccer teams coming through college to like have a good pipeline similar to football? Or is it just not the interest isn't there? In your opinion, I don't know if you know. 

Speaker 2 (26:31.17)
Yeah. 

Speaker 2 (26:32.31)
So I attended a school, UW Oshkosh. They had a men's program there. I didn't play for the men's program at UW Oshkosh because I had another opportunity. But their program was cut because of Title IX. And really, to my knowledge, the reason why the athletic director specifically chose soccer is that it just didn't meet the revenue that football, basketball, and some of the other male sports produce. It's just, you know, people just don't go to soccer games. So when it came down to cut a male 

Speaker 2 (27:00.854)
sport, it was pretty obvious that it's going to be soccer, which was sad because Oshkosh had a national program. mean, they were, you know, division three national champions and runners up and all those things. so, yeah, I hope that answers the question. 

Speaker 3 (27:12.332)
Yeah, yeah, that's just interesting because like there's not the same, you know, we also don't have like a G League like we do for the NBA for the MLS. So it's like they're losing on both fronts. That's just interesting. I never thought about it that way, about not having the feeding of the programs kind of thing. 

Speaker 2 (27:29.772)
Right, and I think like so much of that you need, you know, with the US, we have the talent, it's just I think we don't do a very good job of identifying that talent and then providing an environment for that talent to flourish. And I think that's the one thing that the Europeans do a great job of is they do have multiple pathways, but they also have a massive scouting network that can then identify the talent and then provide opportunities for that talent. 

Speaker 1 (27:50.474)
It's also interesting when you think about MLS, just thinking about the larger landscape of sports and sport consumption in the US. So MLS is relatively young compared to a lot of other sports we have. So we're talking about NFL football, but that's really only the US. I understand they're trying to grow internationally. That's going to be a really long game. Then you have MLB, America's pastime, but it's pretty traditional. And then you get to MLS. 

Speaker 1 (28:20.366)
And it's really diverse. There's all sorts of different fans. I think MLS has really worked hard to get teams in big cities and a lot of different types of big cities. So Paul, is it working? I mean, yes, we're bringing in the big stars and I want to talk more about Messi in a second, but an Apple, sure. But overall, do you smell it? Are there more people who are excited about soccer, more youth playing? Are there more people who are just getting invested in the sport in the US? 

Speaker 2 (28:50.242)
I think so. really do. I think it kind of depends on what your definition of success is. What is that standard of what we want the MLS to achieve? Do we want the MLS to grow the game itself of soccer across the world? Do we want to develop players to join our national team? What does success mean for the MLS? I think that's the key first. We've got to set a standard or league, the administrators or the commissioner of the league has to say this is 

Speaker 2 (29:17.888)
our vision, our mission, and what we want to produce here. So I think that's first. I think we are developing the game, but I think we have one huge hindrance to the game, and that's that it's pay to play. We force families to have to pay to play the game, and it gets pretty expensive when you start getting up to the upper levels and providing opportunities and showcase tournaments and all these additional things. And I think that itself is a very limiting factor. mean, what family can afford that, particularly like, you 

Speaker 2 (29:48.078)
you know, that have multiple kids. So I think we have this hurdle to overcome in this pay to play, particularly in from socioeconomic areas that, you know, maybe wouldn't have that opportunity to do so. So I think finding scholarships and ways for other kids to get more, and I see that responsibility falling more on U.S. soccer than I see it falling on, you know, individual clubs. 

Speaker 2 (30:13.88)
And then like I said, identify players and identify the talent to then give them the opportunity at the next level. 

Speaker 1 (30:21.528)
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Speaker 1 (30:51.414)
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Speaker 1 (30:57.678)
That was the perfect segue because I want to transition over to World Cup. So in 2026, the U.S. or actually more accurately, North America is going to be hosting the World Cup. The majority of the games are going be played in the U.S. and then a couple in Mexico, a couple in Canada, which as I understand it is the first time that a continent has hosted the World Cup. So that's pretty cool too. But the great majority of games are going to be on U.S. soil. I feel like that's going to be a 

Speaker 1 (31:25.026)
game changer for US soccer. I know so many people who have already said, know, I'm interested. want to go to some games. don't follow professional soccer, but it's here. And it's just one of those talk worthy events like the Olympics. It only comes around every four years. It's a big deal. Do you think that hosting the World Cup is going to bring a whole lot of new momentum for the US? 

Speaker 2 (31:51.17)
Yeah, I think it'll give us an achievable goal to say, this is what we want to accomplish because it's our home turf. I look at another example across the pond in Germany. They really had a disastrous World Cup in 2006 and it was, believe, their World Cup. And it was one of the first World Cups that Germany never progressed beyond the group stages. so they kind of had, yeah, for Germany, my gosh, yeah. And so they had this massive aha moment where like, are we doing all the right things at the youth levels? 

Speaker 1 (32:12.142)
That's embarrassing. 

Speaker 2 (32:21.1)
we might need to retool our process, our thinking here, how we educate coaches, how we do all these things. And they did a massive overhaul of their organization, their institution. And then within four years from that, or really eight years after that point, they ended up winning the World Cup with that kind of new generation of players. So I think for us, hosting the World Cup kind of puts pressure on our organization and our institutions to say, are we really doing the things that we're supposed to be supposed to be doing? Are we developing the talent? And hopefully that 

Speaker 2 (32:50.648)
that event will answer that question for us. Yes, we are doing all the things or no, we're not. 

Speaker 3 (32:56.812)
Nothing like looking like a schmuck and playing terrible. You're supposed to be good. I think that's super interesting. And I also think that we are a country that is very vain and we don't like being last. Like we don't even in soccer, think they probably, people are probably like, this is embarrassing. We're the U S we need to be better. You know? So I do think that that's really interesting and a good take, you know, I wouldn't have thought of it. 

Speaker 1 (33:01.801)
I'm... 

Speaker 3 (33:26.306)
like that, but I say that. 

Speaker 1 (33:28.076)
You're right. Has the US ever been good in the World Cup? 

Speaker 3 (33:30.881)
Men. 

Speaker 2 (33:32.737)
Right. 

Speaker 2 (33:33.958)
I assumed that was the... Yes. So actually back in the fifties, at the time that the tournament was set up differently, it was only an 18 tournament. And so we ended up making it to the quarterfinal. We progressed out of our group stage, won our first knockout game and then lost, I want to say to Spain or it was either Spain or Uruguay. can't remember. But, then Uruguay, I believe ended up winning that World Cup. But yeah, that was the best... 

Speaker 1 (33:36.124)
question. 

Speaker 2 (33:59.81)
we've ever done, but again, it was an 18 tournament and it was done a little bit differently. could basically pay your way into the tournament. You could say, we'll buy our spot. That was how it worked a little bit back then. And so I don't know if maybe we got in on credit or if we got it or merit or if we got in on financials. So, but yeah, yeah, a little historiography for you. Yeah. 

Speaker 1 (34:21.848)
So I've heard and I've read about all of the celebrity ownership of MLS teams in the US. So there's Matthew McConaughey owns one team and then Beckham, David Beckham, retired professional soccer player actually owns Inter Miami, the team where Messi played. So I learned that Beckham also came over and played for an MLS team. And as part of his signing deal, 

Speaker 1 (34:50.402)
was told that after he retires, he will be given the opportunity to start his own club, which is how Inner Miami was born. And then that's why he brought over Messi and basically said, you know, like, let's, let's explode this thing. Let's do some amazing stuff here. How much do you feel like celebrity ownership has impacted MLS? 

Speaker 2 (35:10.35)
I think it's helped bring in people who maybe wouldn't have been fans of the league because of the backgrounds from those celebrities and the followers that they bring with. I think the most important thing that the MLS needs to look at, and it kind of goes back to that question I asked earlier of what is our identity, how do we measure success? I think MLS needs to really try to drop some of the restrictions that they have on ownership, franchising. We have trades, not transfers. 

Speaker 2 (35:39.96)
You know, there's so many hindrances that in my personal opinion, restrictions that are really unnecessary, that kind of limit the growth of the game and kind of maybe stifle ownership, you know, the potential of some owners to come into the league because there are so many restrictions. And then you look at the English Premier League and you look at the German Bundesliga and particularly the Italian league. mean, there are no restrictions on ownership or regulating money or finances. And that's why you have, you know, this crown prince of Saudi Arabia that owns Manchester city. I mean, who can financially compete with that? 

Speaker 2 (36:09.57)
Nobody can. What player would go and play for the MLS for $1.5 million when he can go to a club? Esmer, one of my former players, for example, was with New England Revolution, signed a youth contract there. He was making $300K to play for them. He's 19 years old. was it? Three months ago, he signed a contract with PSV for $7.8 million. Now he's playing for PSV and was suited up for the Champions League. 

Speaker 2 (36:36.856)
For him, it's like, why would he stay in the MLS? How does the MLS compete with that? 

Speaker 1 (36:40.622)
So you're saying there's a chance it's a really slim chance. 

Speaker 2 (36:45.358)
Telling me there's a chance 

Speaker 1 (36:47.502)
We've got some work to do. Fair enough. 

Speaker 3 (36:53.966)
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Speaker 3 (37:21.922)
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Speaker 3 (37:32.654)
You're so knowledgeable. I really appreciate that. Um, I have a question. So with messy being apparently America's favorite athlete, which is so cool. Do you think that the MLS, if, mean, I know I read that he's likely to reassign his contract, um, with Miami, but do you think that if he ever did leave, we could keep up that, you know, that hype? What's, you know, what's the goal? What do you think? What? 

Speaker 3 (38:01.88)
What's gonna happen? 

Speaker 2 (38:03.048)
I think we need players like Messi, those established guys that can bring that fan base in, but we really need to grow our homegrown talent. We really need to develop players that can, like your Cole Palmer's right now over in the EPL, right? He has really driven a new level of fan base in the younger players in the next generation. So yes, you need your established players to come in and bring that fan base with you to drive up. 

Speaker 2 (38:31.746)
viewership and all that stuff, but you also need to have homegrown talent that can kind of connect to that younger generation of players. And you know, I, Ambre, assume that that was a Miradona jersey that you were wearing, not a messy jersey. 

Speaker 1 (38:43.606)
Messy all the way. My son's favorite favorite. Yeah. 

Speaker 2 (38:46.334)
all the way right 

Speaker 2 (38:47.917)
right do you guys know who mayor Diego Maradona is by the chance 

Speaker 3 (38:52.682)
No idea. We're like, yeah, that guy. 

Speaker 1 (38:56.332)
Guessing 

Speaker 1 (38:56.583)
he played for Argentina. Is this a Argentina jersey? 

Speaker 2 (39:00.074)
Yeah, he was messy before messy, if that makes any sense. He was the messy of the 80s. Yeah. Got it. 

Speaker 1 (39:05.964)
I knew the name, but I would never be able to place that. So I want to quickly pause for a trivia timeout. Every episode, we drop a really cool piece of information and we triple dog dare our audience to repeat this to someone in the next week. So our trivia timeout is revolving around messy. So, and Teryn alluded to this, but there are monthly rankings of America's 

Speaker 1 (39:33.848)
favorite athlete. So there's a top athlete every month. And American sports, right? There's something different going on all the time. So it makes sense that this is a monthly thing. But Messi was voted America's favorite athlete for three plus months in a row, which is a very prestigious thing to accomplish. And he's in very good company with some amazingly famous American athletes, including Terrence Good Buddy, Mr. Brady. 

Speaker 1 (40:02.722)
He's in this group. She points to her background. She's a Patriots fan. We'll forgive her. And nobody's perfect. So, Mr. Brady's up there. Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Peyton Manning. And then there's some Hoopers, Kobe, Steph, LeBron. Anyway, it's a super elite group of people to be in and Messi is the first and only soccer player to ever make it there. 

Speaker 2 (40:09.272)
No. 

Speaker 1 (40:31.694)
I mean, America's favorite athlete for three months in a row. So that's pretty amazing. We dare you listeners to repeat that to somebody else you know in your life. 

Speaker 3 (40:42.094)
getting close to our end of their time with you, but I was wondering because I just had this like reminder in my brain, how funny it is to watch the videos of Messi's bodyguard. Do you ever see those? his bodyguard like runs the sideline of the field while he's playing because people are always trying to run onto the field to get to him. So his bodyguard is like, 

Speaker 2 (41:08.781)
Yeah. 

Speaker 3 (41:10.988)
running up and down the sidelines of the games and get ready to run to protect him from people who run onto the field. 

Speaker 1 (41:19.416)
He's gotta be in as good a shape as Messi. 

Speaker 3 (41:22.506)
he's yeah, he looks ripped, but there was one kid messy. Let him take a selfie with him. And then the bodyguard was like, okay, let's go. Got him off the field. Anyways, I didn't know if you had seen those videos or not, but 

Speaker 2 (41:34.08)
No, I'll definitely check them out. 

Speaker 1 (41:38.626)
Okay, I wanna close things down with one last question for Teryn. Teryn, on a scale of one to 10 soccer balls, how much did you learn today and what's maybe one thing that is gonna stick in your brain? 

Speaker 3 (41:50.798)
Like eight soccer balls. I feel like I know so much more about, mean, even just doing a little bit of research, but just the differences in the leagues and the importance of getting some stars and some people watching. think it made me think of the Olympics and how you start to pick up random people that you like. mean, track people. Noah Lyles is a really good example. know, like nobody knows anything about 

Speaker 3 (42:20.566)
most track stars, now they know who that name is. And so we need some players like that to like show up and be, you know, maybe have a little bit of a personality like him and make people care a little bit more. think that's an interesting little tidbit that I'm going to definitely take away. 

Speaker 1 (42:39.736)
Paul, we have so loved having you with us today and it's been so much fun. We really appreciate your taking the time to hang out us today. 

Speaker 2 (42:47.682)
Thank you guys so much for the invite and anytime feel free to reach out. always love talking soccer. 

Speaker 3 (42:57.144)
All right, everyone, welcome back to our self-proclaimed favorite segment, She's Got Game. It's where we highlight amazing women making waves in the sports world. And today, as we've been on the topic of MLS, we're diving into the story of Danita Johnson. Have you ever heard of her, Ambre? 

Speaker 1 (43:16.398)
Is she an owner? She's a... Ooh, okay. Yes. 

Speaker 3 (43:20.34)
Yeah, I 

Speaker 3 (43:23.251)
didn't figure you did. had never heard of her. Danita Johnson made history by becoming the first black president of an MLS club when she took the helm at DC United. It's a woman's MLS team out in Washington, DC, as you can imagine. Her path to this milestone is pretty inspiring though. She started her career with an internship. 

Speaker 3 (43:47.486)
F the Fayetteville Patriots. It's an NBA development league. So they call it the G league. It's where they're. Yeah. Basketball basically the developmental league for the NBA. And so it's just a small little team there and it's based in Fayetteville, North Carolina. And from there, she climbed the ranks in various roles across the WNBA and the NBA. She grew up in Fayetteville, North Carolina. 

Speaker 3 (44:16.354)
graduated from Western Carolina University with a degree in sports management. Which is, yes, also the degree that I have, it, it's not the degree you have, is it? is? Perfect, yeah, it's the degree that we both have. I have it for both my undergraduate and graduate degree. So obviously big fan of that world and the education I got from that major. And in terms of her roles, she has worn many hats. 

Speaker 3 (44:43.022)
She was the director of ticket sales for the Washington Mystics. That's a WNBA team in DC. Then she moved over, you know, all the way across the country over to Los Angeles. And she was with the Clippers and MBA team as the director of business development and operations. Yes. Her significant impact though, was with the Los Angeles Sparks back to WNBA where she served as president and COO. 

Speaker 1 (45:01.048)
She's been everywhere. 

Speaker 3 (45:12.94)
I did not realize this before, but did you know that Magic Johnson actually is a part owner of the LA Sparks? 

Speaker 1 (45:19.394)
I did not know that. I'm also not surprised. It feels like there's a lot of celebrity owners of teams in the U.S. 

Speaker 3 (45:25.836)
Yeah, and he's a big LA guy. She was talking about in an interview that she was super intimidated to sit across the table and get interviewed from Magic Johnson. She's like, he was asking me about my family. I'm like, what world am I in right now? 

Speaker 1 (45:41.294)


Speaker 1 (45:41.696)
Also, he's a super big dude, so there's that as well. 

Speaker 3 (45:45.07)
large. 

Speaker 3 (45:47.31)
So under her leadership, the Sparks led the league in corporate sponsorships and saw a 50 % increase in ticket sales between 2014 and 2017. So obviously a big impact there. So in December of 2020, DC United appointed her as the president of business operations. 

Speaker 3 (46:10.966)
Making her the first black president, I mentioned that earlier, of an MLS club, first black and first black female. She was only the third ever woman in league history to hold such a position. And she believes that establishing that winning culture off the field impacts every aspect of the business, from the fan interactions to community engagement. So she's really involved and she cares a lot about everything that she does with the team. 

Speaker 3 (46:41.17)
she mentioned that it's just been an honor for her. She doesn't think about it too much. She doesn't think about, you know, her being the first ever black woman. She just knows that she's got to keep doing better every single day. Every day is new challenge. and she seems like someone who is really striving to, do some awesome things with her organization. 

Speaker 1 (47:04.492)
That's really cool. 

Speaker 3 (47:05.762)
Yeah, she's a trailblazer. So I'm excited to see what she accomplishes next. I'm going to keep an eye out for the DC United women's team this year and see how they do. Cause I know this about her, but now I feel like I'm a little bit more, engaged and attached to that team. So we're going to keep an eye out for them and see how they do. And that's why our she's got game for today is Danita Johnson. Very cool. 

Speaker 3 (47:33.912)
All right, that's a wrap for today's episode of Almost Fans. Hopefully you're feeling just a little bit more confident dropping sports knowledge at your next happy hour, work meeting, or kids practice sidelines. And if not, hey, at least now you know more than you did an hour ago. If you liked hanging out with us, keep the conversation going. Send us your sports questions, your hot takes, or your ridiculous game day superstitions. We want to hear it all. 

Speaker 3 (48:00.226)
Find us on Instagram at AlmostFansPodcast or drop us a message at AlmostFansPodcast at gmail.com. And if you've got a friend who still thinks offsides is just a soccer thing, send them our way. Sharing is caring and we love adding more AlmostFans to the squad. See you next time.