016: Kentucky Derby - Big Hats, Fast Horses, and How to Pick a Winner

Welcome to the most glamorous two minutes in sports! We’re diving headfirst into the Kentucky Derby—from the thunderous excitement of the race to the real secrets behind horse betting and Triple Crown glory. In this episode, we break down what really happens behind the scenes once the races end (spoiler: the biggest money isn’t made in the winner’s circle). Plus, we spotlight legendary jockey Michelle Payne, who shattered glass ceilings at 40 mph. Grab your mint julep and saddle up—this is the Kentucky Derby like you’ve never heard it before. 

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MEET AMBRE: https://www.instagram.com/ambre.hobson/  

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Chapters

•  11:30 – Horse Racing: It’s a Thing
•  21:40 – Derby Vibes: Fancy and Fast
•  25:08 – Horse Betting 101
•  31:21 – Breeding Horses, Printing Money
•  37:17 – Trailblazer Female Jockey

Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00.11)
Teryn, can you name the signature drink at the Kentucky Derby? Yep. And what are the ingredients?

Yeah, the mint julep.

Speaker 2 (00:08.374)
I have no idea. Mint. I bet it's probably like gin. That's not close at all. Thing about liquor. Mint.

Yes.

Close, whiskey. You're right, that's not close. Whiskey. Sugar and ice. Yeah, we're just going straight for like, yep.

Wow.

Speaker 2 (00:24.812)
Whiskey, mint, sugar and ice. That sounds terrible. I'd try it though.

Yup, yup, yup and yup.

Speaker 2 (00:33.794)
Have you ever wondered why people get so hyped about their favorite sports teams? Well, it turns out it's not just about the game. It's about the community. My name is Teryn.

And I'm Ambre. Welcome to Almost Fans, the sports podcast that's fun, a little bit educational, and will give you plenty to say when you're trying to keep up with those diehard sports fans in your life.

Speaker 2 (00:58.222)
Hey, hey everyone. Welcome back to Almost Fans. We are so glad you're joining us today. Later in our episode, we are trotting our way into all things Kentucky Derby, the mint juleps, the fancy hats, and the very dramatic two minutes of horse racing glory. But before we place our bets, it's time for this week's hat trick. Mine and Ambre's top three picks around a fun theme. And today we're talking hidden.

talents. The underrated skills that don't go on a resume but definitely deserve a moment in the spotlight. I cannot wait to hear what yours are Ambre, so please start with your number three hidden talent.

Okay, I am freaky good at spelling, which maybe in some careers could actually go on a resume. But if you ever see me, especially in a meeting, a place where I'm sitting and my fingers are moving a little bit, it's because I'm typing out words that I... Longer words. I'm typing out what I'm hearing, like, imaginarily with my fingers. I know this might not be a super politically correct terminology, but when it comes to spelling, I'm a little bit Rain Man-ish about it.

crazy, crazy. I must know how to spell words. A super quick story. When I was in grade school, there was a spelling bee. It was for fifth graders through eighth graders. I was in sixth grade and I got second place. I was very proud of that. know second is a first loser, but I didn't know that back then. The word that got me out, let's see if you can spell it, is niche.

N-I-C-H-E.

Speaker 1 (02:36.074)
Yeah, crushed me. How did I not know? It's five letters.

Don't we, okay, I feel like that's a good point, because don't people say niche?

Yeah, I think you can pronounce it either way.

I grew up in Michigan and we called it niche. now, like ever since I grew up and like moved around, everyone always says niche.

You're right. I never thought about that. It's not my fault. I should have gotten first.

Speaker 2 (02:56.118)
Yeah. Yeah. Their niche sounds like CHE more than.

Because I would have thought quiche and I would have gotten with a CHG situation. Anyway, I will never ever in all of my life spell niche or niche incorrectly.

Okay, but this is also so funny about you because I'm the worst speller. Like I terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible. I think I'm slightly dyslexic. I give my, you said as my excuse, but I will be like, Ambre, spell this for me. Like we'll be in meetings typing. I'm like, just, can you just, I'm not even going to try. Can you just spell it for me?

I love that, also like spell check. Thank goodness. Thank goodness. Spell check.

so funny. Okay, so my number three is my gif game. It's elite. Ambre knows it. If there's a crying laughing face with just the right tone for your situation, I will find it.

Speaker 1 (03:47.086)
It is uncanny how well you can capture the nuances of any emotion or moment with a six second moving photo. I don't like.

not even six, it's like three.

Yeah, it is uncanny. Uncanny, it's so impressive. I love that you said that. For sure. Yeah, you should like find a way to monetize that. I don't know.

Yep. Yep.

Speaker 2 (04:13.603)
Yeah, I know. Instead of just throwing them in all of our meeting chats.

Yeah. That's super valuable too. Okay. My number two is kind of related to my number one. So maybe it's cheating or not, but man, I really love big words. I was a precocious. You can't use big words because you sound like a jerk. So I just kind of dropped that one. Pretentious, precocious. I love precarious, ubiquitous, but my favorite of all of all is superfluous, which is like way extra. That's how I feel when I start thinking about

big words, but I was a pretty precocious kid. I read a lot of, I'm sure I was way too young, but smutty English romance books. I learned a lot from those. They're the ones like exactly what you think where she's like scantily clad with some cleavage and she's leaning backward dramatically on the front cover. Those books, I scarfed those books down when I was way too young, but they...

There's a lot of great vocabulary words. Yeah, I learned my vocabulary words from really crappy romance novels.

So funny. Yeah, sometimes I think you just make up words and I giggle because I'm like, that's not real.

Speaker 1 (05:28.482)
I have to, I had to tone it back. takes effort to be like, you're going to think such a jerk. you say that, what you're thinking right now, that word.

Use the dumbed down version.

Speaker 2 (05:38.668)
that's so funny. You're too smart for me. my gosh. Okay. My number two is that I am the group empath. So I will always make sure that everyone feels comfortable, even if that means like I, it's just because I'm the one that spills my drink first or trips over myself and is, something stupid to like break the tension. But I will be out here casually crisis managing vibes of a group.

because I don't like to feel uncomfy because if you feel uncomfy, I feel uncomfy. So I'm going to fix it.

I love that. Do you think about whenever you're organizing groups of people, you purposely bring in different people for different elements?

Well, probably like less, yes, yes, for sure. And sometimes it's like this person's not gonna fit in here and I don't want them to feel uncomfortable. So like, I'm gonna give them an out. They don't have to come or like maybe just not invite them. That is less often, less often the case that I wouldn't invite someone because I'm also an includer. But like, I just try and think like this group of people would probably have more fun together. So like I'll do like another group with different people at time, you know.

Yeah. Strategy. I've never spent time in a place where your mom has organized anything, but it feels like something you might've gotten from her. Is that right?

Speaker 2 (07:02.162)
well, maybe I don't know that she's as strategic about it as me, but she is an included like me for sure. She wants to make sure everyone feels safe and comfortable and welcome. And she's very awkward about it, which love you, mom. But she is like, she'll be like, Hey, just go get your own drink. I'm not getting it for you because she wants them to feel comfortable, but it's like.

also feel like you and her could talk to anybody.

Yeah. No, my mom talks to too many people. Sorry, mom, if you're listening. She's the person that you're like, mom, keep it in here. Like you didn't need to talk to that stranger passing by you because you liked their shoes.

I love that. Mama Jen.

I would tell her that to her face.

Speaker 1 (07:47.118)
Yeah. My third and final hidden talent, I've told Teryn this before, is predicting the winners and losers of baking show competitions. Y'all, if there were like March Madness, okay. But could we do that for the Great British Baking Show? Because I would win all the pools, all of the money, all of the time.

I watch these shows with my kids. Well, just once in a while, it's in the background or something. I just need to brag on myself for a second. I'll only be halfway listening and I'll be like, Carlos for sure. And the judge will go, Carlos, you're eliminated. And my kids are like, mom, how did you know that? I'm like, you guys, it's just a skill. It's a finely honed skill after hours and hours of daytime TV. I'm just not good. Yeah. I don't want to be a judge. I just want to be able to predict. mean, well, I would, I would be a judge too. That'd be fun. could eat all this stuff. Anyway.

That's wild.

Speaker 2 (08:41.422)
That'd be fun. Okay. So for my number one hidden talent. So you know how people say like they just knew when they met the one. that I could not say I've got figured out. Do not. Nope. That's not me. So far failed at that one, but I do know, I do know when I have not met the one and I know fast. My red flag radar is finally tuned.

Not a hidden talent.

Speaker 2 (09:09.516)
I need 24 hours texting a dude, probably less and that's me being generous to myself. One date and I know it's not going to work.

Okay, in a prior episode, we've talked about some red flags like being too eager, being not eager enough. What are the other flags?

Okay, well, red flag, complaining too much about things, right? Like making excuses for, you know, maybe haven't got the career that you want yet, right? So you're like, well, this has happened to me and that's happened to me and blah, blah, blah, too negative, too like, excusey, don't love that, bye, goodbye. Another one, I don't know, like.

I'm thinking about road rage from that one guy.

yes, I went on a date with a guy, let him pick me up. That was so dumb, bad choice by Teryn. You got in. I know. Yeah. I did have someone following my location, it was fine. And yeah, he was like yelling at people on the road. That was so weird. Another guy I went out with, like, so we'll talk about in person, right? Like he told me.

Speaker 1 (09:57.336)
He was so much trouble. All the women at work.

Speaker 2 (10:15.61)
straight up told me that I was better looking in person than my pictures showed, which seems like a nice compliment. No, was like, no, that's, keep that right here in the head. Keep it in there. That's one of those ones you lock away for later date. Not on the first date. Like, again, he was trying to be nice and say that I was prettier in person, but basically what I heard was, you're crap at picking pictures of yourself.

Yeah, just there's no just what? No. How's that going to help any conversation along?

Yeah, and it has to just be comfortable conversation, right? Like if the conversation's not like flowing great, then I'm probably done with you. I've only been on two second dates post divorce ever.

Yeah, neither one of those were the one. No. We should revisit this hat trick topic in three months and maybe you'll flip the script and you'll be like, this is a hidden talent. I do know when it is the one.

So far, can't say that I've got that skill.

Speaker 1 (11:13.87)
Okay, we're going to work on that.

But three months, that's also very generous. Thank you for thinking in three months, I'll be in a better place. Who knows?

Absolutely. Optimism over here.

Yeah, I'm not sure I have it.

Speaker 1 (11:30.414)
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And we're off. Today is Kentucky Derby Day on the Almost Fans podcast. I am so excited for this topic. And I want to begin with just a really big picture look at horse racing in the US. Humor me. I'll go super fast on this. In the US, there are 300 horse tracks. That surprised me because in my mind, there's like the Derby and that's it. No, no, no, no, no.

There's so many horse tracks in the US, 300. And this pans out to be something like 200,000 races per year. Horse racing is huge. The horse races that make it into mainstream media, like we're going to talk about the Derby today, is really just one tiny little blip in the grand scheme of what's happening in horse racing. So.

Okay, but let's talk about like the biggest blips on the radar here. So the three most famous horse races in the US are part of the Triple Crown. Teryn, can you name them? I told you what they were this week and you were like, that sounds like an illness. Not for sure, but go.

Speaker 2 (13:34.51)
The Kentucky Derby,

Belmont State. Yeah. So those three are like jewels in the triple crown of horse racing in the US. So those are the ones that you think about when you think about horse racing. And then there's another one that if you're really paying attention to the media, you'll hear about too, it's called the Breeders' Cup. So what's the really like the big difference? The triple crown are kind of all lumped together, you know, into a trifecta of horse racing. Those three races are important too, because your horse can only do them once.

Horses in those three races must be three years old, period. Cannot be two, cannot be four. Yeah, so each horse gets one shot at the Triple Crown races. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, yeah, just one, one shot, like all in one shot. The Breeders Cup though, it's a lot different. It's like the Super Bowl and a horse racing festival all rolled into one. It's like...

No clue.

Speaker 1 (14:37.644)
The year end hurrah happens in the fall. It's a lot of different ages of horses and genders and race lengths. So that's a lot different, but usually when we talk about horse racing, we're talking about the Triple Crown races. So I'm gonna dive in today more into the Triple Crown races and to help you get a feel for the vibe of these three races, I know I've done this before, but it's just so effective in visual. I'm gonna pair a pop star

or actress with each one. Okay. Derby is Beyonce. I know, I know, I know. I used her for some soccer analogy, but she's just like, you know, like evocative. You know what I mean when I say the queen. Yeah. She's elegant. She's iconic. She's glamorous. And that is exactly what the Derby is to people here are dressed to impress. It's super steeped in tradition, like really, really long history.

And it's unforgettable stuff. It's the kickoff to the triple crown races. So it's usually the one that people are talking about the most. And that's why we're talking about it today too. Champagne, couture, star power. Yes. All those things. Okay. Preakness is like Jennifer Lawrence. I'll let that sink in. Love. I do too. A little quirky, a lot of fun and always the life of the party. Among those three, people are having the best time probably at the Preakness.

her.

Speaker 1 (16:06.474)
So it's like, yeah, people aren't going to be as, you know, like the heels might not be quite as high. The hats might not cost quite as much, but man, people are like taken down the cocktails like none other. Okay. And then finally is the Belmont Steaks. This is like Merrill Street.

Thank

Speaker 2 (16:29.056)
classy.

So wise, composed, staying power, so sophisticated, strong. It's the anchor of the three races. It's the final one in the Triple Crown. It's also the longest distance. So a lot of times people are kind of like, well, know, like, wow, those horses are doing well in those first two races, but when it gets to the Belmont Stakes, then we're really going to find out. It's tough. It's tough and it's...

it's scrappy. So those are kind of a breakdown of those three Triple Crown races. And of course I mentioned the Breeders' Cup. It's Lady Gaga. Breeders' Cup is Lady Gaga. Yeah. It's bold. It's theatrical. told you it's like the Super Bowl meets a festival. So there's just like a lot going on. There's a lot to look at. There's yes, a lot of fashion. It's just like a lot. It's probably the best way to do it. You never know.

dress.

That kind of vibe, just something unique. Okay, Teryn, can you name the signature drink at the Kentucky Derby? Yep. And what are the ingredients?

Speaker 2 (17:35.397)
yeah, the mint julep.

Speaker 2 (17:39.456)
I have no idea. I meant, I bet it's probably like gin. That's not close at all. Thing about liquor.

Yes.

Speaker 1 (17:47.768)
Close, whiskey. Yeah, you're right. That's not close. Well, Jen is, you're right. I forgot. Jen is the pine tree needles. So no, not close at all. Whiskey.

Whiskey would be like a dark liquor, gin clear. and whiskey, wow, I would have never guessed that. Like sparkling soda or something like that.

I love you.

Speaker 1 (18:12.792)
Sugar and ice. Yeah, we're just going straight for like, yep.

Wow.

Speaker 2 (18:18.818)
Whiskey, mint, sugar and ice.

Yep, yep, yep, and yep. Whoa. yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you can make it like weak or strong, you know, like you can play with this a little bit. The sugar kind of evens it out a little bit. Once the ice melts, if you're like me, it's going to take a really long time to drink just one of them. So then you have some watery situation happening in your cup.

that sounds terrible. I try it though.

Speaker 2 (18:34.924)
Okay, guess sugar makes it a little sweet.

Speaker 2 (18:48.782)
I have to tell everybody about we were at a wedding one time and Ambre, she doesn't usually drink much, but she was not driving home. Her husband was driving home, so she was like, Teryn, you know don't drink much. How do I get drunkest the fastest? And I was like, and she goes, something that tastes good. I was like, okay, rum on ice with a lemon in a lime. And she drank that the whole night.

I drank the first one down fast. The second one was slow and it was the perfect burn. Then just not literal burn, but it was the perfect level of funzy Ambre. Then I could still go to bed with a half dozen Advil and wake up the next morning with two dozen Advil and be totally solid. It was a great trade-off.

Not, not my

That's my go-to now. Just something on rocks right away, real fast, and then let that sustain me the rest of the night. Anyway. Okay. I want to talk just a little bit more about Derby vibes and fashion. What is the feel of being at a racetrack? First off, at any given racetrack, opening day is a big deal. Reminds me a little bit of MLB. People are dressed to the nines, high heels, sundresses, casual luxury, if you will.

and in one given day at the track, you're probably gonna spend about 12 hours there and you're gonna witness, if you're there the whole time, between nine and 12 different races. So here's how it goes. You arrive, you get a couple cocktails, you place your bets on the first race and that race goes off and then there's about 30 minutes until the next one, which is just enough time to get another cocktail, go to the bathroom if you're like me, place bets on the next race and do some epic.

Speaker 1 (20:40.91)
people watching. So that's kind of the vibe. Something you wouldn't expect about being at the racetrack is how insane it is for those final seconds of a race. The last 30 seconds, it's grown men, grown women, children screaming as loud as they possibly can, cheering on their horse or their horses to win or second, third, whatever. I was thinking about this and how there's not really another equivalent in sports.

Like in basketball, there's not a specific 30 seconds where everybody knows the whole arena is going to go crazy. If it's a buzzer beater, sure, but in horse racing, it's like a guarantee. The last stretch of every single race is going to be nuts. NASCAR? So it's just really fun. Yeah, that's true, NASCAR. I mean, races, Similar, Like team sports, you know, things like that. you're right. It's only in races like this. So that's just kind of an interesting

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:38.764)
vibe that you're going to find.

awesome no matter what.

It's always awesome and dramatic and maybe even shocking. Yes, exactly. Okay, so the Derby is famous for the hats. I want to take a second and break this down. Why? Why is it that people wear these eccentric, sometimes incredibly ugly hats to the Kentucky Derby? The Derby began many, many, years ago. I do believe it is the oldest annual sporting event in the US.

But back then it was like a symbol of wealth to be able to go to this event, know, horse racing and wearing really elegant hats was like a further symbol of how much wealth you had. So that's where it started and it just sort of has continued now. And now you'll see some really crazy hats. The biggest one was five feet wide. I don't know how she made it through doors and things, you know, went to the bathroom.

Some of them are like up to $10,000 depending on what kind of crazy stuff you're putting on them. Some people believe that hats are going to bring you good luck. Up until recently, men were not really supposed to wear hats or supposed to wear bow tie, but now fedoras and panamas are becoming more acceptable for men. I think it's like a fedora, but I think the brim is a little bit wider and flatter. Interesting.

Speaker 2 (22:56.504)
Panama.

Speaker 1 (23:05.58)
I think like a fedora is kind of like a little like a little bendy kind of situation, you know, but I think a Panama is more like a flat rim. I'm not really sure we should Google that later.

Yeah, I don't know my pretentious male fashion.

Yeah. You got to step up on that, I guess. Okay, Teryn, I have an activity for you. It's no secret, an activity. It's no secret that horse names are really unique and sometimes funny, right? There's some specific rules. You can't use famous people's names. It can't be more than 18 characters long. You can't use a number like number one stoner, you know, you can't use swear words like fast AF. It's not going to get past the

next.

Speaker 1 (23:48.846)
The governing body. Okay. So I'm going to give you two questions and based on your answers, I'm going to tell you the name of your racehorse. First off, I want you to pick a guilty pleasure snack. have four options. There's popcorn with a lot of butter, sour candy, fancy cupcakes, or leftover mac and cheese. Okay. Great. Okay. Next, choose your movie genre. Is it?

Sour candy, 100%.

Speaker 1 (24:17.854)
A rom-com, true crime, an indie film or action adventure.

Let's go rom-com, be basic.

All right. Then your horse's name is Zesty Darling. Do you love it? Zesty Darling. I did this quiz with our boss and he got Zesty Fury. I did it and I got Sugar Plum Bolt.

I love them. Zesty darling.

Speaker 2 (24:48.782)
It sounds like a Mario Kart character.

That's funny.

Speaker 1 (24:53.486)
Yeah. Sugar plum bolt. Yeah. Like a candy crush situation. Something like that. Okay. Zesty darling and sugar plum bolt are our two horses names.

Speaker 1 (25:08.024)
So now I want to segue into the money side of things, right? That's always where the fun happens. I mean, the fashion is the fun too, but let's talk about the money. And I'm going to start things off talking about horse betting. This felt like a very mysterious and scary and complicated side of horse racing to me. And it can be, I think it very well can be, but you can also simplify it. So I'm going to explain it to you like you're five.

Please do.

Great. Okay. So the three most simple ways that you can place bets on horses are win, place or show. If you want to place a bet on a horse to win, then you're going to say, what was it? Zesty darling. You're going say Zesty darling is going to win this race. I'm putting my money on her. Great. So that's one way you could bet for a horse to win. If you want to place a place bet,

Sesty darling.

Speaker 1 (26:08.76)
then you would say Zesty darling is going to get first or second. You're making it more likely. We pick one horse and you say Zesty is going to come in first or she's going to come in second in this race. it's always first. Yep. And then if you place a show bet, it's for second or third. Got it. Yeah. So you can place a win bet, a place bet or a show bet. You say they're going to come in first, they're going to come in first or second or they're going to come in first, second or third.

or second.

Speaker 2 (26:27.342)
Okay, I see the pattern.

Speaker 1 (26:38.078)
Obviously, as you cast a wider net and you say, my horse Zesty is going to get first or second or third, your risk is lower. So the amount of money that you might win is also going to be lower. Good bettors at a racetrack depends on how much money you get to burn. But a lot of times good bettors are going to place a variety of different bets on each race. They're going to say, well, I feel really good.

about sugar plum bolts. I'm going to put win. I'm going to bet on her to win. Zesty darling, I'm going to bet on her to show. I think she's pretty good. I'm not as confident. I think she might get second or third. good bettors place a big variety of bets depending on the race, depending on their confidence level, but that also diversifies and helps you maybe earn a little bit of your money back. Okay. When you're looking at a bunch of horses on the TV monitor, maybe you're

looking at them on a piece of paper program that you have and you're trying to figure out which one to bet for. There are a huge number of factors you could consider. You could go very far down a rabbit hole. Many people do. Or you could just bet for the one that has the coolest hair. That's probably what I would do. Maybe like the prettiest colors on the jockeys uniform. But let's talk about odds. So I had a lot of questions about odds. It's one of the ways that you can

understand how likely a horse is to win. There are some dudes in a room in Vegas who are looking at... There's dudes in a room. They're looking at football games and basketball games and dog races and horse races, and they're looking at everything and they're putting odds on who they think is going to win. They do the same thing for every horse race. So when you're looking at a list of horses and trying to decide who you should bet on,

They're going to have odds next to them. So a horse that has really good odds to win might be two and one, which basically means if this horse does this race two times, he's probably going to win one time. If this horse has not great odds, it might be 20 to one. So if this horse does this race 20 times, they're going to win one time. If you go with the horse that has pretty good odds, you're not going to win as much money.

Speaker 1 (29:01.526)
If you go for the horse, it's more of an underdog. You could win more money, assuming they do well, obviously.

For people who are trying to figure out how that math works, right? You put $1 in and they're 20 to one, you would win $20.

Exactly. Yeah. So the bigger the risk, the bigger potential reward. Essentially. Now the dudes in a room in Vegas set the odds, but then those odds change. If the people in the grandstands are like collectively, man, Zesty Fury is looking great today. Wow. He's pouncing around and had a great workout this morning. I don't know. And then everybody starts betting on Zesty Fury. His odds might change.

and his odds might shift closer to like the two to one or something because so many people are betting on him.

but you get based on how you bet at the time, whatever the odds were. So it doesn't change for you if it changes later. Whatever you bet at the time is what you get, right?

Speaker 1 (30:00.974)
I don't know that. Yes. Okay. Yes. Yes.

Yeah, like let's say I bet on the Lakers to win the NBA championship months ago before they had Luka Doncic on their team. Their odds of winning were probably a lot lower, but I bet on them when they were 30 to one odds. Now there are five to one odds. I still bet when the odds were bad, so I still get my 30 to one odds.

I will take your word from it. I do not know that answer. Positive.

Speaker 2 (30:31.982)
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Okay, I've got one last segment I wanna tell you about. And this segment I have named from track star to super dad. Okay. So great. Yeah. If you go to a racetrack, you might be able to win some money. If you're a horse owner and your horse wins, you could win some money. Yes, all great. But what if I told you the real money in horse racing

does not happen in any of those ways. Actually, the money in horse racing comes from romance, and I'm talking about horse breeding. Studfee's horse breeding is insanely more lucrative than just hanging out in the winner's circle at the end of a race.

Speaker 1 (32:14.828)
Let me tell you, retired stallions, you did really well, maybe in a triple crown race, maybe in the Breeders' Cup, maybe in like a local, you who knows, you did well in some races. A lot of those top stallions then go to breeding farms where they live a very pampered life. They've got one job and one job only. And the emphasis is- Do the- One job, man, just one job.

Indeed.

Speaker 1 (32:43.542)
Emphasis is to take care of these horses as though they are gold. There is nobody, no humans who are riding these horses. They are chilled out. They are fed well. Every one of their needs is met. Their daily environment is very controlled. They have specialized handlers, carefully planned breeding sessions. some.

Some of the best stallions might even breed two or even three mares during a day during their peak breeding season. Yeah. They undergo regular, I mean, it's not all like fun here because they also undergo regular evaluations to maintain their fertility and their stamina. So even these breeding stallions come with, you know, like succession rates and stats and things. Okay. Can I make you just a little bit more uncomfortable?

and describe the breeding sheds. So the breeding sheds are equipped very strategically and carefully. There's usually a cushy floor to make sure that nobody gets hurt while they're standing on two legs to protect the joints of the animals. There are sometimes some padded benches for the mare to rest her head if she gets tired.

It's truly impressive. Like these Taj Mahal breeding sheds. Every, again, every need, every thought to the animal's comfort is considered. All of those images in your brain aside, there's a bunch of money here, like a lot of money. Stud fees are serious, serious cash. Okay. So I hadn't gone over these numbers specifically, but really fast. If your horse wins a Kentucky Derby, that's a prize purse of 3 million.

Preakness 1.6 million Belmont stakes is 1.5 million. Now, of course, you have to divide the prize purse between various people, your jockey, your trainer, et cetera. But let's talk about a top stallion. Breeding stallion can bring in over $20 million per year. Just breeding. You win the Derby, you get three mil, you only get one shot.

Speaker 1 (35:06.188)
If you're a top stallion, you're bringing in 20 mil per year. So yeah, I mean, that's like phenomenal, but that amount of money will go up if that stallion happens to sire or has, you know, is the father of a baby who goes on to also do really well racing. Then like that's that stallions breeding prospects go even higher through the roof. So yeah.

Keeping track of your family tree.

Bloodlines are really serious business and horse racing because of that. And male horses can live 25 to 30 years. What amount of that time are they breed worthy? I'm not really sure, but it's like a good chunk of their lives. So super, super fascinating, but all to say, yes, there's a lot of money to be made in horse racing, but maybe just not the way initially that I expected. I was really shocked to see some of those numbers. So it's not always about winning. Sometimes it's just about

winning enough so that your stallion is desirable by breeders and mayors all around the country.

Sounds like a win for that horse.

Speaker 1 (36:11.394)
Sounds like a win for that horse. Yeah. What a fantastic life. but one thing I just want to close down with this thought as I was, you know, thinking about the Kentucky Derby, thinking about horse racing, what's really surprising is how passionate the people connected to this sport really are. And I think it's the same sort of thrill that you get anytime you gamble, right? You place 20 gambles and 19 of them are busts, but the one that you do get

makes you a bunch of money. It's so thrilling and so exciting. And it makes you want to come back for more and place 19 more crappy bets or buy 19 more crappy horses because you're just hoping you're going to find that next diamond in the rough. Yeah. So that is everything today on horse racing and what was her name? Zesty, Zesty darling. Yeah. If we ever own some race horses, I'll remember these horse names for us.

Sounds good.

Speaker 1 (37:17.966)
All right, friends, we're on to our She's Got Game segment where we highlight a woman doing awesome things in sports. And I bet today, Teryn and probably most of our listeners have never heard of this female athlete. She is a jockey from Australia. Her name is Michelle Payne and she is amazing, like capital T trailblazer. Let me give you some background.

She is the youngest of 10 kids, was raised by her dad because her mom was killed in a car accident when she's a little itty bitty baby. Yeah, so she's the youngest of like a bunch of kids all raised by this like really amazing father. She's very close to her older brother, Stevie, who had Down syndrome. Her family was a really hardcore horse racing family. like, wasn't a question.

If you were responsible for doing some chores either in the house or in the stables, it was just a thing. There was a huge calendar spreadsheet and everybody did their part because there was so much to do. They had a lot of horses. Seven of Michelle's brothers and sisters actually raced horses as well. So she followed in their proverbial footsteps. She's most famous. This is the, if you have heard of her, she's most famous.

for winning the Melbourne Cup in 2015. It is like Australia's version of the Kentucky Derby. It's internationally known for sure, but it's like a big freaking deal in Australia. She was the first woman to win it. So a really big deal. And actually in Australia, they call Melbourne Cup Day the race that stops a nation because so many people stopped, cheered on. It's just full of tradition and importance.

really a symbol of national pride. So this is all well and fine, but I wanted to use this, She's Got Game opportunity to dive into more details about what it takes to be a jockey. In today's episode, we really didn't get into this on purpose because I really wanted to dive in and tell you more about being a jockey at the same time as telling you more about this incredible, incredible female athlete. So I have got six fun facts here about jockeys.

Speaker 1 (39:38.796)
The first one is being a jockey is incredibly dangerous, like super dangerous. When Michelle was 18 years old, she had a bad fall off a horse in a race and fractured her skull and bruised her brain. And this is like one example in a very long line of all of these jockeys who get injuries on the regular. Like throughout a jockey's maybe 10-year career,

They're probably going to fall seven times. They're going to break dozens of bones in their bodies, know, bruising brain. just, they're, they're on a horse traveling at speeds of 35 to 40 miles per hour in very close quarters with other horses and riders who are doing the same thing. And they're trying to move around and it's a short race and so they've got to take their opportunities when they see him. It's incredibly dangerous. Jackies do wear gear to try to help protect themselves like vests.

helmets, but concussions and broken bones are still just a normal thing, part of jockey life. In the US, more than 150 jockeys have died in professional races alone since the 1940s. Just in the last 80 years, 150 of them died on the race course. Yeah, it's super dangerous and it was really dangerous for Michelle too. She had seven falls during her career.

The one I mentioned was the most serious, but it's like not for the faint of heart. People do it because they absolutely love it despite the danger. Number two out of six surprising facts here. Jockeys are independent contractors. It's not like one stable has six jockeys that they employ and pay for insurance and benefits and all this great stuff. no, no. Jockeys are basically out there peddling their services, hoping to build relationships with

horse owners with stables, with conglomerates, so they can get jobs basically. So Michelle, just like any other jockey out there, she did this. And when you first start out, you're sort of unknown. Until you've really proven yourself in races, it's hard to get your foot in the door. So Michelle would go and spend long days at racetracks, just hanging out in her jockey gear with her helmet saying,

Speaker 1 (41:56.834)
How about today? Like I'm not even trying to race your horse. I'll just like take him for a workout around the track at 3 a.m. Like, what do you say? Please, please, please, please. Can I for free? Yeah. Just trying to like, just trying to build the relationship, just trying to get the face time. So super interesting. They also have to pay yes for their own insurance and things like that, but also for travel. So the hotel, when they go race a horse, the gas, the flights, whatever to get there.

almost always they're paying for on their own and then they're just hoping that they'll win some prize money and be able to cover their expenses. So yeah, super tough life.

So you're saying they don't get paid by the owner of the horse or they do and then they win some prize money also and that's gonna cover the rest of it.

They'll get paid for their time by the owner of the horse and it's not much. So what they really need is to win or be in the, you know, depends on the size of the race. Obviously if it's a more prestigious race, then you may be second, third and fourth place or winning more money. But yeah, what they get paid for, you know, their, their labor only does not cover much at all. They've got to win. So super high pressure. Number three surprising fact is that jockeys really struggle with weight management.

Yeah. You know, when I was learning about this, it reminded me a lot about in high school, I had friends who were on the wrestling team and you had to hit a certain weight, able to compete at a weight class. So same thing here.

Speaker 2 (43:24.334)
Yeah

Speaker 2 (43:29.934)
And you were always trying to go down a weight class. What your body was probably meant to be at.

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (43:36.462)
Probably from what your body was comfortable at, you were below that. Yeah. There was a time where Michelle actually tested positive for a drug that is an appetite suppressant. One of the things that she was doing to try to lower her weight so that she could hit the threshold. Yeah. And she was suspended for four weeks, which was a big bummer.

Sorry, so when you say she had to hit a certain weight, is there a weight requirement or is it just that having a lower body weight obviously is lighter for your horse?

having a lower body weight is better for your horse, because the horse is just carrying less on its back. But also there could be an owner of a horse or a manager of a horse who's like, hey, Teryn, I'm going to give you a shot, but I need you to be below this weight. Can you do that? Yes or no. And when you're trying to get your foot in the door, when you're really working hard to build a name for yourself, you're like, anything. So she would say yes to a weight that

Maybe she had to lose four pounds in the next three days before this race. So she would do things like wrapping herself in plastic wrap and then putting sweatshirts on and power walking, not running because trying to preserve joints, right? But power walking or maybe doing pushups and whatever in a sauna, just trying to lose the water weight, honestly. Eating one orange for dinner, just crazy, really unhealthy things just to maintain.

the weight that's ideal for racing horses. The average jockey weighs between 108 to 118 pounds and that is including their gear. So I mentioned they're wearing vests, they're wearing some protective stuff, they've got a helmet, they've got their whip, right? Yeah, so they've got to come below a certain threshold even with all that gear on. It's easy.

Speaker 2 (45:25.064)
Person.

Despite all sorts of advances in nutrition, what we know today about how to feed our bodies for athletic performance, there's still just a lot of challenges when it comes to nutrition, weight management in this particular sport. Speaking of fitness, my next fun fact is that they've got to pass some pretty rigorous fitness tests. They have to be in really excellent shape. Think about this. When you watch a jockey on a horse, they're basically doing like a...

a is that what that's called? When you just like sit against a wall, basically. They're basically like a wall squat. Yeah. They're holding a squat on a moving object for sometimes two minutes at a time and also strategizing and speaking with the horse and using their body weight to move the horse in certain ways while they're holding a half squat for two minutes. So it's like a lot of lower body strength. It's upper body strength and it is a bunch of

core strength. really impressive heart rates of jockeys during races get up usually into like the 190 beats per minute range. That's like anaerobic. That's a sprint basically. Your body is doing this sort of like sprint kind of reenactment for two minutes on this horse and your adrenaline, right? You know, and don't fall, don't fall, don't fall. There's some fear.

I mean

Speaker 1 (46:47.406)
I'm Yeah, they have to be incredibly, incredibly fit and also not way too much. So it's really fine line to walk. I've got two more here. The next one is that women are hugely underrepresented, which is one of the reasons why I really want to talk about Michelle today because she's done some really cool things and been one of the first of her gender. Early in Michelle's horse jockey career, I've mentioned a couple of times, she worked really hard to get her foot in the door, build relationships.

when she would get some races, especially at some of the smaller ones early on, she would get there and there was always a locker room for the male jockeys. But for Michelle, because odds are there were no other women at the race, she would change in a broom closet or whatever food storage room, whatever space the track had available for her. It just wasn't part of the norm to have a men's jockey.

locker room and a women's jockey locker room. I mean, of course she would make the best of it, but even today only about 14 % of licensed jockeys in the US at least are ladies. yeah, and even those 14 % still face a lot of bias from trainers, from owners. Really can women do as well at this as men? Just like anything else, change takes a lot of time and it takes...

strong and brave people like Michelle.

I wish everybody on the podcast could hear me rolling my eyes.

Speaker 1 (48:18.702)
Yeah. The last thing I want to talk to you about is money. Jockeys get a surprisingly small, well, to me, it was a small amount of the prize. So for Michelle, when she did this groundbreaking thing, which was me the first woman to win the Melbourne Cup in 2015, the prize money for winning was $6 million and Michelle got 5%, which was $300,000.

Yeah. 5%. So 85 % of the prize goes to the owner, 10 % goes to the trainer, and then 5 % goes to the jockey. That's the Melbourne Cup. Other cups are a little bit different. I think in the US, it's closer to 10 % to the jockey, but even then-

What?

Speaker 2 (49:06.126)
It's like a standard that people have that's not like what the owner chooses.

I mean, I imagine the owner could probably give more, the... Probably not. I don't know. But each race basically dictates here is the prize winning and then this is the amount required to go to the jockey, this amount to the trainer, et cetera. So, for the jockey, after paying the agent, if they've got a valet or somebody helping them, they're...

It's

Speaker 1 (49:37.358)
pot just kind of shrinks smaller and smaller and smaller. Yeah, it's really shocking. In those lower level races, like I mentioned when Michelle was changing in a broom closet, she's probably taken home like maybe a hundred bucks per ride if she's doing halfway well, maybe winning a little bit more. So it's just a super tough life. But I will say I just heard over and over again, as I've been watching and listening to things that they just love it.

They love horses. They love the adrenaline. It's like any other professional athlete who's like in a single sport. I imagine like golf, like tennis. It's just you and the sport. You don't have the teammates and whatever around you. So to do it, you have to like really, really love it. And that is undoubtedly how Michelle feels about being a jockey. I think it's what a lot of jockeys feel about their art. I've just got a couple last things I wanna mention here. When Michelle made

capital H history in winning the 2015 Melbourne Cup. It was a really big deal. Yes, because she was the first woman. Also because her and her horse were so severely bet against. She had 100 to one odds. Like what? mean, basically, yeah, the world was against her. Her horse's name was the Prince of Penzance.

And she started riding him right after she came back from those really serious injuries and he was also recovering from some injuries. So was like the perfect, you know, sort of pairing these two who were recovering and healing and coming back. So that was really cool. But listen to this. She was a sassy lady. She's still a sassy lady. She says what she thinks like that. In her post-race interview, she addressed some of these gender biases that even today still come up for jockeys. And this is what she said. It's such a chauvinistic sport.

A lot of the owners wanted to kick me off. Everyone else can just get stuffed if they think women aren't good enough. Picture that with an Australian accent. She knows what's happened around her and she's just gonna go after the thing even if it's really, really hard. So now Michelle has retired from being a jockey. She's no longer doing that job, but she and her brother, Stevie, the older brother who has Down syndrome, they own a horse farm together.

Speaker 1 (51:59.178)
They assist with horse care. They travel to races and just generally still support the race overall, but also gender equity. It's just a really neat and inspiring story to see Michelle accomplish this really amazing thing despite the injuries, despite being a woman in a male dominated sport.

Her story is really awesome. If you want to see it in movie form, you could watch the movie Ride Like a Girl. It's a

fantastic movie.

I watched it on Fandango because we like rent, bought it. I don't know.

I'm not really sure. pay for it.

Speaker 1 (52:39.79)
Yeah, yep. You got to pay for it. Look it up. It's not dizzy. I don't think it's somewhere out there. It's definitely worth a watch. It's a really good movie. But for all those trailblazing, inspiring reasons and more are why we have chosen Michelle Payne as our She's Got Game spotlighted female athlete today.

Speaker 1 (53:02.19)
And there you have it, our ride through the world of the Kentucky Derby. From fast horses to fabulous fashion, we covered it all. If you learned something cool or had a good laugh today, do us a favor and share this episode on Instagram. It is the easiest way to help more Almost fans find us. Thanks for hanging out with us today and we'll catch you next week.