049: Inside Inclusive Sports, the Miracle League, and a Family’s Fight Forward

A single moment changed everything for the Sherbondy family. In this episode, pastor and sports dad Dugan Sherbondy walks us through his daughter Eva’s traumatic brain injury, the long road that followed, and how inclusive sports became a lifeline. We dig into the Miracle League, the buddy system that powers it, and the design choices that make the game accessible for every athlete. Then we zoom out to the future of adaptive sports—what’s working, what isn’t, and the moments of joy that keep families pushing for true inclusion. If you care about youth sports, accessibility, or the power of community, this episode is a must-listen.

Content note: This episode includes mention of medical and mental health challenges. If you or someone you know is struggling, you can call or text 988 for the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.

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Chapters

•  05:22 - Eva's Accident and Its Impact
•  08:02 - Faith and Healing Journey
•  10:37 - Miracle League Experience
•  14:39 - Eva's Activities and Community Involvement
•  29:12 - Inclusive Education and Adaptive Programs
•  35:23 - The Future of Sports for Kids with Disabilities
•  39:12 - Misunderstandings About Kids with Disabilities
•  42:50 - Coping Mechanisms and Personal Growth
•  49:10 - Getting Involved in Adaptive Sports Programs

Transcript

Dugan Sherbondy (00:37)
Every kid gets a walk-up song when they come up.

Ambre (00:38)
I was totally gonna ask that.

Dugan Sherbondy (00:40)
Yeah, dude. I told Teryn you came and watched a couple. I told Teryn, like, you really have to, like, spiritually prepare for the genre shift that happens because, I mean, it's wonderful. There's just so many kids of different ages and different, you know, developments and different mental state. And so the song shifts are without a clutch. goes from like, Kendrick Lamar and then it was Taylor Swift and then it was the Beatles. And then it was

Teryn (00:43)
Yep.

The gamut.

shark.

Dugan Sherbondy (01:05)
Ring Around the Rosie and then it was a Christmas song. So you're out in the field and kids are coming up and you're like, gosh, I was not ready. I was bopping to Eminem and all of sudden we went to Wheels on the Bus.

I am so happy to be here mostly to thank you both for the passion you have lit in my 73 year old mother for sports. Yeah, well, I mean, I'm 41 and truly up until whenever your podcast launched, I think a very small part of her judged me for how much I love sports. was like, I mean, there was like little comments like ESPN's on again and.

Teryn (03:07)
She's our biggest fan. Truly.

Dugan Sherbondy (03:24)
What game is you have to watch what? And so and then all of a sudden she came over one night and just was asking me questions. And I'm like, who are you and what is happening? She was asking me questions about the draft and seating. And I was like, and then she referenced your podcast. And every week she comes home with more questions. She comes over and has more questions. So it's opened up and it's blossomed a new level of our relationship. So thank you for that.

Ambre (03:26)
you

Teryn (03:42)
So sweet.

Ambre (03:44)
Wow.

Teryn (03:47)
⁓ you're so welcome. She's

so sweet. She actually sent me a text yesterday because I told her at church on Sunday that she needed to write up a review so we could post it. And so yesterday she wrote me like a paragraph long review. And she said exactly that. She goes, you've opened up a new world of conversation I get to have with my son. So sweet.

Ambre (03:49)
I love that.

Dugan Sherbondy (04:04)
Hahaha

Knowing her

for whatever it's worth, she probably spent three and a half hours on that paragraph.

Teryn (04:11)
typing it up,

backspace, backspace, backspace, yeah.

Ambre (04:12)
Makes it even better.

Dugan Sherbondy (04:14)
She

edited it like 30 times. Yeah. Yeah.

Teryn (04:16)
Yeah. Yeah. Well,

we're happy to help. You're so welcome. Just almost fans. Bring in families together.

Dugan Sherbondy (04:21)
Ha ha ha!

That's right. Yeah, get the get the people who don't care about sports to learn about the heart of it and then they'll fall in love with it.

Teryn (04:29)
It's so great. We love that.

Dugan Sherbondy (04:31)
I have a couple of sports theories, we can get into that later.

Teryn (04:33)
Okay, that's

great. I can't wait to hear them. Perfect. ⁓ Okay, Dugan, you have a very, very particular story and why we have you on today. And we, for our listeners who don't know who you are, which would be shocking because I looked at your social media, you have like 180,000 followers.

Dugan Sherbondy (04:36)
Mm-hmm.

Ambre (04:53)
my.

Dugan Sherbondy (04:54)
It's more my daughter does, and I just happen to be the one posting pictures of her. That's mainly her. Yeah.

Teryn (04:59)
That's fair. That's fair. That's fair.

But you're pretty funny too. So I imagine people enjoy your content. So just for our listeners, tell them your version of that day when Eva had her accident. What do you remember? And just how did things shift in your life from there for your family, your faith, all kinds of things that happened when that happened.

Dugan Sherbondy (05:22)
⁓ easy first question. What a softball. Yeah, let me just, this will take 30 seconds real quick.

Teryn (05:25)
Mm-hmm. Sure, sure. Summarize

it in three words. I'm just kidding.

Dugan Sherbondy (05:30)
Yeah, oh, jeez. OK, that's

funny. Yeah, no. So for anybody that might not know, August 19th of 2020, or no, excuse me, August 22nd of 2019, our daughter Eva, who was seven at the time and was a typical kid, and she in the most flukey accident in the world was riding on a golf cart and she fell off and hit her head and suffered a traumatic brain injury at TBI.

And I mean, truly, was like an adult was driving. It was in our neighborhood. So it was like our neighbor. And she was driving her daughter and Eva and another little girl. They were going to the park. She'd ridden on that like a dozen times before. And I mean, it's a golf cart. was like two feet off the ground. They're going eight miles an hour. But the brain injury that she sustained was deadly, honestly. she was, mean, ambulance was called immediately. She was rushed to the hospital.

And then over the course of the next two years, think Lindsay and I would spend over 400 days in the hospital, 400 days and nights in the hospital. Some were, you know, months and months at a time. Some were weeks at a time. Some were, yeah, just a couple of days, but it was a lot of time in the hospital. So there's a whole lot of details about her story. I mean, she should have died, I think four times. I think four times, like certainly it was, she should have died.

Ambre (06:27)
Mm.

Dugan Sherbondy (06:47)
I mean, even the ambulance right itself. So we live in Sun Prairie, which door to door from here to the Children's Hospital, it's typically in the 40 to 50 minute mark, depending on a lot of factors. And the ambulance got from here to the hospital in 22 minutes, which she was rushed right into the operating room with a brain surgeon. And they were like, yeah, any longer, we're not sure we would have been able to save her.

Another one, this is the craziest one. There's way too many stories I could tell, but this is the craziest one. So immediately after her surgery, she had tubes and hoses every which way. One of them was a ⁓ pressure meter in her head to measure the ICP, the intercranial pressure, so they could determine if they needed to do something, adjust something, tend to her. And they basically were like, if the pressure in her head gets to a certain point, that is when

Teryn (07:14)
Mm-hmm.

Dugan Sherbondy (07:35)
More often than not, it'll rupture the brainstem and she will die or at best become brain dead. And we were like, OK, gosh, cool. Thanks for that. And so we were like, or they said, they said, I said, what's the highest you've seen? And they said, like, they're like, if it gets in the 40s, that's about when it happens. So we want it like the 20s, maybe 30s, but higher than that. And it'll, know, that's that's when that happens. And Eva got to 63.

And so we just like, I mean, every second we're just waiting, staring at this number. I mean, again, these doctors were wonderful. And of course, they had to have those super awful conversations about, what do you want us to do if this happens? And what do you want to do if we would recommend this and not recommend that? So it was at 63. And then we were just like, OK. And then it came down. And then it came down a little bit more. And then it came down a little bit more. And she didn't die. So it's just one story.

Ambre (08:04)
I guess.

Dugan Sherbondy (08:26)
the, I mean, the first like year, was we were very rarely home altogether. she went from the hospital to a rehab center in Chicago and then back to the hospital for some more procedures. And then literally we'd come home for like a day or two or a week, and then something happened and she'd have to go back. So it was, it was so much time in the hospital. We were like ships passing in the night.

like sort of single parenting our son while he was home. And then one of us having to be at the hospital. And, you know, what's crazy is from the beginning, from the, as I sat in the ambulance, riding to the hospital, you know, Eva's in the back. I'm like weeping, I'm texting people. And from that moment up for till now forever, I have just really clearly felt the Lord.

telling me to pray for her healing. I have a degree in biblical studies. I'm going to pause for the applause. on.

There we go. thank you. my gosh. my gosh. Thank you so much. No, so I mean, my whole professional career, I've been a pastor and I've taught on healing and studied healing a lot. And the way I understand it is like God does it and still does it. you know, his timing is perfect, but it's something that he calls us to pray for. So, yeah. So from day one, I was just like, we're going to pray for full and complete healing. Like what, how is that going to hurt? Because that's what I believe in what I have faith in.

Ambre (09:25)
Yeah

Dugan Sherbondy (09:48)
And it's been interesting over the past six years that prayer hasn't changed at all. I think my perspective on how God works maybe has a little bit ⁓ because I mean, again, her having almost died four times, including her initial accident, it's really clear like, yeah, there were there are miraculous healings that have happened without a doubt. Like there's things that she's capable of now.

that even her specialist looking at her brain scan are like, she shouldn't be able to do that based on where the damage is, right? You know, they like are looking at it and they're like, and we're like, yeah, she smiles when she learned this thing and then she smiles when that happens. And they're like, really? We don't know how. That should be happening. She should be able to. So there's those kind of miracles in addition to just, like I said, I mean, every night I still just pray that God would heal her fully and completely.

Teryn (10:22)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Dugan Sherbondy (10:37)
⁓ I hope that is while we're still this side of heaven, but it might not be. And either way, it's all God's timing, but not even that. the, the, the amount of people that he has impacted through her. I mean, I joked about my Instagram following, no, no kidding. It's just a hundred percent because of Eva that people follow her story. And you know, we named her, we named her Eva with an E cause it means life. And then her middle name is love because we felt even before

Teryn (10:54)
You

Dugan Sherbondy (11:03)
We had her when Lizzie was pregnant. We felt God tell us she would bring life and love to people. Little did we know that would be while she was after she was ⁓ after she had a traumatic brain injury. That was when she was going to reach people for the Lord. like I mean, some of the messages I've gotten from from people who because of Eva have like. Like sought after God for the first time or the first time in a long time, people who walked back into community and walked back into church.

Teryn (11:08)
Hmm, this guy, goosebumps.

Yeah.

Dugan Sherbondy (11:30)
people who would like hadn't prayed and would pray for her. I've gotten a couple of messages from people who said, they're like, I'm an atheist, but I prayed for your daughter. And I, just said, thank you. But I wanted to be like, to who? What? I mean, that's amazing. Like, oh my God. Like, what are you, who you praying to? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. So just, she, you know, God has used her in so many ways. And I will say, I mean, this past probably year and a half has been the best, like most stable.

Teryn (11:44)
Just in case. Just in case.

Dugan Sherbondy (11:58)
Our family has has seen in a long time that Eva has been in a long time. She is like present and engaged. She can respond. The best part of our day is when she smiles, which she does all the time. She goes to school. She she has therapists that come to the house, so she's like experiences joy, lives life, has friends and community. It's way different than.

that most people would probably picture for a 13 year old, I...

I don't know how to phrase this holistically. I believe it's what God has for her. Not that he caused anything. I don't think that in any way. it's like, I think, I mean, if this is the life that he has called her to and called us as a family to, like Eva is doing fantastic.

That's about 10 % of that whole story. Sure, yeah, it was like 1%. people would turn off, or they'd listen to it at like five times speed so they could get through it all.

Ambre (12:46)
So.

Teryn (12:47)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ambre (12:50)
I feel like there, I think we could probably have you talk for days.

Teryn (13:00)
No,

not at all. Not true at all.

Dugan Sherbondy (13:04)
Yeah, you would ask what it did to my faith. That's a good question. I think there's two, I'll be brief. I think there's two things with my faith that it has Most of my faith, it was such a privilege to experience the truth of stuff I taught and believed in the midst of it. So that was like incredible. So like peace that passes understanding.

Ambre (13:04)
Okay, so.

Dugan Sherbondy (13:27)
You know, I read that I believe that I would preach that. But this was the first time I truly was like, I feel at peace and I don't know why, because circumstantially I should be in the exact opposite space. And of course, there were times of, my gosh, like anger and rage and depression. mean, of course, so much of that. But I mean, all throughout and especially at certain moments, there was just this like peace that didn't make sense. You know, God's presence, God's goodness in the midst of of.

pain and suffering and difficulty, God's joy in the midst of pain and confusion and uncertainty and anger and pain and all that. So that was really a privilege to be able to, now when I preach about it, I talk to people about it, I can back it up and be like, and I've been there, or I am there, I get what that's like. So that was really incredible.

The one thing that it has shaken, not in a bad way, but in a way that I've just been doing like a lot more research and processing is when it comes to prayer. That's, think the one area that it has, like the way that I processed what prayer was prior to her accident is I'm less sure of now. so that doesn't mean I don't pray. doesn't mean I

Don't believe what in prayer, what it does, but there's just certain elements of what I've read in scripture, what Jesus taught about what prayer is. Then I'm like, I don't know what I think of that now or what that looks like flushed out. But I guess I'm going to learn that as we go. So.

Teryn (14:53)
Yeah.

Ambre (15:42)
So, Duyen, maybe this is the right term, maybe it's not, but Eva is differently abled. And one of the things that she gets to do is play sports. ⁓ So we wanted to talk to you about Miracle League. Will you, for folks who are unfamiliar, will you just sort of describe what that is and how you and Eva came to be connected with it?

Dugan Sherbondy (15:52)
Yeah.

Teryn (15:52)
You

Dugan Sherbondy (15:56)
Yeah.

Yeah, so Miracle League is a baseball league for kids and students with disabilities and special needs. can't, thinking back, I actually can't remember how we originally heard about it. I'm sure somebody told us about it. You know, we've just met some incredible people, so I'm sure somebody just mentioned it to us. It's in Cottage Grove, and ⁓ it was started by a gentleman who experienced some

differently abledness in his own life and was like, just, would love to give kids a opportunity to still play baseball, you know, regardless of, what their disability or inhibition might be. So through like fundraising and sponsorships, ⁓ they built this unbelievable stadium for, for kids. I mean, it is nicer than any little league stadium I ever played on. It's like, so like the whole field.

There the baseball diamond, you know, like when you go to a bougie playground, how it's like that gushy rubber or whatever. You know, I mean, like when you want it's not like wood chips or rusty nails or whatever. It's like that. It's like, so so that's the whole field and it's painted with like the outfield grass, the infield dirt, the pitchers mound, the bases, the home plate. But it's all zero entry. It's all flat. So people and kids in wheelchairs can obviously get in and out. The whole thing is fenced in, but it's like ⁓

Teryn (17:01)
Mm-hmm.

Dugan Sherbondy (17:24)
very aesthetic fence, so it's not like a prison yard. It feels like a baseball stadium fence. But there's a gate that latches for those kids who might tend to wander or run or whatever. So it's just like a safety thing and keeps them in the ballpark. There's bleachers that are covered. There's a PA system where an announcer introduces every kid as they come up. There's a big video board in center field where the kids' picture come up. And they get a walk-up song. Every kid gets a walk-up song when they come up.

Teryn (17:29)
Yeah.

awesome.

Ambre (17:51)
I was totally gonna

ask that.

Dugan Sherbondy (17:52)
Yeah, dude. I told Teryn you came and watched a couple. I told Teryn, like, you really have to, like, spiritually prepare for the genre shift that happens because, I mean, it's wonderful. There's just so many kids of different ages and different, you know, developments and different mental state. And so the song shifts are without a clutch. goes from like, it was like Kendrick Lamar and then it was Taylor Swift and then it was the Beatles. And then it was

Teryn (17:55)
Yep.

The gamut.

Baby shark.

Dugan Sherbondy (18:19)
Ring Around the Rosie and then it was a Christmas song. So you're out in the field and kids are coming up and you're like, gosh, I was not ready. I was bopping to Eminem and all of sudden we went to Ring Around the Rosie and yeah, Wheels on the Bus.

So it's a blast, man. It's so fun. so yeah, so we did that. We started that three years ago and the first two years were interrupted occasionally by, like I mentioned, some longer hospital stays. So she never really got like a full season.

But this summer and they do fall ball too, which is like a month, like four weeks. Although fall ball this year felt like summer ball because it was so warm. And so this year was the first time she was able to do the entire season. And it was funny because the first time we went, they have what they call buddies, which are folks who volunteer and buddy up and partner up with each individual kid. So they have somebody pitching to them or helping them swing, helping them run the bases, pushing the wheelchair.

Teryn (18:52)
Yeah, it was.

Dugan Sherbondy (19:11)
And they're all like wonderful, incredible. In fact, the last couple of years, they've had some local college baseball teams volunteer. And so you show up and there's just like 30 stud baseball players out there hanging out with these kids and running. And I mean, high five. it's so they're like really, really wonderful. But the first time we took her, she was partnered up with a wonderful girl. she'd like.

Teryn (19:24)
Yeah.

Ambre (19:27)
No!

Dugan Sherbondy (19:37)
did everything with Eva was really wonderful. But Lindsay and I are sitting in the stands and all of a sudden halfway through, was like, I want to play baseball with my girls. So afterwards I went to her coach and I'm like, is that, is that okay? Like, can I be her buddy? And she was like, my gosh, yes, of course. so since, mean, I, you know, registered and background check and signed up. And so since then, Eva and I get all geared up and we have a mitt and we have our bat and I get some big league chew, old school big league chew.

Teryn (19:42)
Yeah.

Dugan Sherbondy (20:02)
And I get to be your buddy. And so we go play baseball every Wednesday night. they play two full innings. Every kid gets to bat. So we bat around. And it's always a tie at the end. And I mean, it's a blast. Most of the time you hit, you hit a single. Other kids are like, no, I'm home run. And so they run all around the bases. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And they're passing. It's awesome.

Teryn (20:03)
Disney.

Absolutely, it's a home run. They hit a foul ball and they run all the way around.

Ambre (20:23)
Yeah.

Teryn (20:26)
It's amazing.

Dugan Sherbondy (20:27)
Sometimes

they run two third and they run the third base and do it backwards. And that's cool. That still counts. But yeah, man, it is like just incredible. mean, I love it. Baseball is my favorite sport. I grew up playing it. And unfortunately, I'm a Cubs fan. there's that. But ⁓ yeah, that's fair. Yeah. And so just like being able to be out there with her, it's one of the coolest things I think as a dad.

Teryn (20:32)
Great.

Ambre (20:43)
Nobody's perfect, that's all right.

Dugan Sherbondy (20:53)
As her dad, you know, we have a couple ways that we connect a lot like I read book series to her a bunch. But but baseball has been has been one of them in the Miracle League. It's just incredible, like such a fantastic, wonderful experience. In fact, they're growing so much. So they had to a bunch of teams this past year. And as of now, they're working towards ⁓ opening a league in Sun Prairie, which would be super fun. Yeah, which would be so fun. Yeah.

Teryn (21:14)
Amazing. Yeah.

Ambre (21:15)
Wow.

That's awesome. Okay, the almost fans must know what is Eva's walk-up song and what is the pep talk you give her before she steps up to the plate?

Dugan Sherbondy (21:18)
So that's Miracle League. It's awesome.

All right, well, tell her, Eva, if you don't get more than a single, I will be so disappointed in you. So I hesitate to tell you her walk-up song, because Lindsay doesn't like it. My wife doesn't like it. ⁓ The first two years, it was Taylor Swift, obviously. Actually, Eva was like the OG Swifty. She was a Swifty before it was cool, for real. ⁓

Ambre (21:36)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Teryn (21:44)
Yes, obviously.

⁓ of course

she was.

Dugan Sherbondy (21:51)
Yeah, yeah, she was really into it before school. So but this year I chose the song and I chose ⁓ So Fresh So Clean by Outkast because because it's such a good song. But every every time I give her a shower and we get out and we're getting dried off and I play that song. So I'm like, you're so fresh, so clean now. So it's a bop. She loves it. But Lindsay at the ballpark, she's like, we got to pick another one. I'm like, you know what, I'm her baseball buddy.

Ambre (21:51)
Look out.

Great song!

Teryn (22:09)
It's amazing.

Ambre (22:10)
Hmm. Yeah.

What would Lindsay choose? Back to Swiftie?

Dugan Sherbondy (22:19)
Yeah, probably. probably. I'm like, yeah, that's true. Although there's a couple of songs in there. I'm like, Taylor, growing. This is probably just for you and your special someone. don't know if we all have to listen to this song. Yeah, we're going to do that. So the pep talk I give her, honestly, so we have so much fun We just we.

Teryn (22:20)
Yeah, there's so many to choose from. Also a brand new album, so...

Yeah, we're not gonna let... Yeah, we don't let Eva listen to those ones. It's okay. you know, someday she's older.

Dugan Sherbondy (22:41)
We kind of talk about, where do you want to play? You want to play second, short, third, outfield? And then we position. And I turn her wheelchair wheels parallel to the home plate. So there's more of a chance. Like a couple of times, it'll hit. Like she'll make the ball roll and hit her wheel. She holds the glove. And we just wait. So if a ball comes close, I'll grab it. I'll put it in her lap. We'll throw it back in. Batting, honestly, most of the time I'm asking

if she would like to try to swing on her own or if she'd like me to help her. I mean, the vast majority of the time, she'll grip the bat. I'll hold her and I'll say one, two, three, and we'll swing. There was one time, though, this was not. So there was one time where her and I had sort of been talking. I was like, baby, if you ever want to try to swing on your own, just let me know. We can put the ball in the tee. We'll put it right next to the bat. You just got to push your arm forward, which she can move intentionally ⁓ when she wants.

And there was one, was actually, was last year was the final game of last year's fall ball. And she's gripping the bat. I put the tee up right, right next to the ball and she straight up pushed it and like knocked it off the tee. I like flipped out. would, so, you know, I was like, I have to push you to first base. And So that was awesome. Well, and then this was nutty too. This one also last year. So Eva's wheelchair, she has to labor inclined, unlike you would picture somebody sitting up in a wheelchair. She has to labor.

Ambre (23:42)
Hmm... No...

Teryn (23:45)
You're

Dugan Sherbondy (23:55)
recline so that her head is supported and she doesn't have like torso control in a way that would be safe. So on the bottom of her chair, there's a tray that we use to hold her like emergency vent or sometimes supplies or whatever. And so we're on the field, you know, just hanging out and a ball was hit right to her. And I just thought, maybe it's going to hit her chair. Maybe it's going to roll under. And it's better if you can picture it. But somehow it bounced under her legs.

but into the tray that was like right under her feet. So she legit just made the play. She caught the ball like in her chair, in her chair. Her coach from the dugout was like, what just happened? And I was like, she doesn't need me. She's been a play out by herself. It was so funny.

Teryn (24:32)
Just sort of watch

me play baseball, dad. I know what I'm doing out here.

Dugan Sherbondy (24:35)
Yeah, right.

Yeah, so that was really that was really awesome. So and man just to watch like like I said, it's a it's a super diverse ⁓ range of ages and abilities and Enjoyment, mean, I mean like there's some who are there who you know They are like geeked out to be playing baseball and they're swinging like their favorite player and then there's other kids who are like Don't seem to super care but love hanging out and love running around

Teryn (24:44)
Mm-hmm.

Dugan Sherbondy (25:02)
the field and that's just such a fun experience. And you know, I think my mom said this because she comes to all the famous games, but with just how well done the stadium is and the intro song and the video board and just the whole park in and of itself, there's just such a dignity to it and to those kids and those parents and those families showing up that is like, I told somebody, was like, even if they built just the bare minimum.

field, you'd still be like, this is awesome. This is so cool. What a cool opportunity for her. But the fact that they is above and beyond, yeah, like I said, it's just there's so much dignity and pride and enjoyment for which is it's growing, which is why it blew up. unfortunately, so the first year Eva played, she was on the Dodgers, which I had to make some peace with. Then.

Ambre (25:51)
I'm

Dugan Sherbondy (25:52)
I mean, I don't allow non-cubs stuff in the house, but I was like, all right, we can have your hat and jersey, but we are burning this after the season. No, think we can. And then, and then the last two years she's been the Nationals, which I'm like, that's fine. That's a neutral team. I don't care about that. But because they're growing, they had to add new teams. And so this was the first year that they added, they have the Cubs. And I was like, darn it. I wish we didn't like your coat so much because we would totally go to the Cubs.

Teryn (26:05)
Yeah.

Dugan Sherbondy (26:14)
the problem with her being on the cubs is, they would just lose and it'd be heartbreak and devastation and yeah, they'd be, pay a lot

Teryn (26:19)
Yeah. That's not familiar for you.

Ambre (26:20)
Yeah.

Dugan Sherbondy (26:24)
Do I mute? Should I mute this while I cry or do you want that on the audio? All right, sorry, we're going to say. Yeah, right.

Teryn (26:29)
Yeah, you should probably. No, I was going

to say, my experience going was just how, like what your mom said, it was enjoyable for me to be there. Like the announcer was so funny. know, like he made it interesting for everyone sitting there, right? Like he'd be like, oh, and there goes Sarah. She, oh.

Dugan Sherbondy (26:44)
yeah.

Teryn (26:53)
Nope, she's back. ⁓ no, now she's going back home. She's just sliding in, you know, like they made it so and like you said, like the the field is amazing. The everything around it is just so beautiful and so engaging. I was like, this is incredible, you know, and for those kids is like you said, those kids, they feel so valued. And that was so that was so awesome to see. yeah, I'm.

Dugan Sherbondy (26:57)
Yeah.

Bye.

Teryn (27:18)
I was glad to be able to go and watch and actually see it firsthand because it was really, really cool.

Dugan Sherbondy (27:22)
Yeah, yeah, it's really cool.

Teryn (27:23)
Yeah.

So do again for, Eva and she's participating in other activities too, with people with special needs and different activity levels. know your mom was telling me about the track or like the gym class or something like that. think was, was she riding a bike? Is that what it was? ⁓ what are some of the other things that she gets to participate here in Madison that have been great for her?

Dugan Sherbondy (28:36)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so I mean, really the school system is where most of her like therapies and stuff come from. there's it's just something it's set up so fantastically. Like it's I mean, the people are incredible. The opportunities are incredible. Like I said, there's therapists that come. Now it was a special situation. I know they don't approve this for everybody, but but we have a couple of therapists throughout the week come to the home to help her with some therapies. She has a teacher that that comes to the house.

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday for an hour and a half and they just do school. They learn geography and history and science and you know, so they're she's just like teaching her school and then the adaptive programs. At this school, it's a it's a bunch of kids and then the high schoolers. So we go to West High School. live right down the road from West West High School in Sun Prairie. So there's kids from the high students from the high school who volunteer to again kind of partner up with with the kids who come with disabilities.

and partner with them. And there's an adaptive PE class, and then there's a choir class as well. And so like I said, she's at school every day, Monday through Friday. And they alternate Monday, Wednesday, Friday for one, Tuesday, Thursday, and then they flop it for the next week. So yeah, so one of them, they did bike riding. her

her AP teacher was able to find a bike that would accommodate her and it had head support and linked that. And so they went to the just the running track at West and she got to ride a bike. was like she hadn't ridden a bike since she was seven or whatever. So we got to give her a bike ride, which was fun. So that was cool. And they, mean, they do sports in the gym if like during the winter and stuff like that today, today they played a cornhole and Eva and her, her partner one, which was exciting. So Eva was very proud of that.

Teryn (30:08)
so cool.

Of course they did.

Dugan Sherbondy (30:21)
Well, I told her, I'm like, now, now you're a Wisconsinite. Now that you played bags, that's, that's all it takes. Yeah. And I know, I mean, the school has additional, uh, uh, like adaptive sports programs that probably wouldn't be great for Eva. Um, but depending on the ability of the, of the child, there's, I mean, it was like soccer and, and, and like outdoor baseball and what's the other one.

Teryn (30:25)
Yeah.

Ambre (30:28)
Check the box.

Teryn (30:29)
Truly.

Dugan Sherbondy (30:48)
lacrosse or something. they have other opportunities where they'll even travel and play other schools and other teams that have kids with disabilities and stuff like that. it's kind of awesome, the opportunities. mean, even when I was Eva's age or even going back further in previous generations, the way that the disabled community was treated was

somewhat ostracized and I kind of get the heart of it because it was like most of them need specialized care and attention. And so the thought was like, well, they should have their own classrooms and have their own buses. you know what mean? But that was like sort of what we grew up with was like, they take the short bus because they're just different and they have to, know, different that kind of thing. But the way that the inclusion that happens now is like remarkable because even when Eva was in grade school,

She just went to her grades class like every day. She just went to the class. And there were a couple of times she would do something different than the rest of the class just because of, you know, she'd go to a therapy session or whatever like at the school. But it was so wonderful to like, you know, first couple of days when, when Lindsay and I would take her, we got, we like brought her in the class and all the kids, like we got to introduce her.

We're like, hey, what questions do you have? like, I mean, she fell off a golf cart and this happened. And so now she communicates by blinking. And when she's happy, she'll do that. You know what mean? So it was less this like, don't look at the kid in the wheelchair. We're just going to walk by. It was less of this like they're kind of their own little thing. We're not going to pay. And more just like, yeah, they look different, but we're all kind of the same. she's going to do it differently. But that doesn't mean she's not having fun. It doesn't mean she doesn't love being around you. So the inclusion in that sense has been

was just really, really fantastic. There was like a reading list for kids to sign up to read to her. And there was always like a waiting list every week. You had to get your name on the list to go read to Eva during reading time. Maybe they were just avoiding reading to themselves, but either way, Eva loved it. Yeah.

Teryn (32:40)
That is so cool. I was going to say, Dugan, I think

this is true. It really is a testament to you and Lindsay and the way you've all handled it and the way you've handled just like, you know, we're not going to, we're not going to seclude ourselves and we're not going to treat Eva differently. Like she, obviously she has different needs, like she, we want people to ask questions. We want people to learn and

I always love that when someone who has, like I wanna learn, I don't know everything about everything, right? I wanna learn from people of different cultures and different backgrounds and stuff like that. So when there are people like you who are like, ask your questions, let me know what you wanna know. think that only helps more comfortable and want to, I guess I don't know what the word I'm trying to say, but it makes people more empathetic and more,

Dugan Sherbondy (33:14)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it just broadens your horizons and opens your mind and does away with ignorance. And yeah, I will say that's almost all of that is ⁓ because of Lindsay. So we just give credit where credit is due. Yeah, I'm total like homebody introvert. So I'd be like, Eva, we're packing in and hunkering down and never leaving.

Teryn (33:32)
Yes, thank you. Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay is amazing.

He's moving.

Yeah

Dugan Sherbondy (33:54)
And then

she's like, I signed her up for these nine activities. I'm like, great. And I'm so glad she did it because Eva loves it. Yeah. That's why opposites attract. It's why we make a good team. ⁓

Ambre (33:59)
Hahaha

Teryn (34:00)
Yeah, no, that's great. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, she's wonderful.

Ambre (34:07)
I feel like I'm hearing you talk about Eva and all these amazing activities that she's gotten to participate in, the Miracle League and some of these other sports and things that she's done at school. And I know it's not the same, but it makes me think of what we try to do with this podcast, which is get more people involved and feeling included in sports. This is a very different angle than we usually hit it from, but at the heart of it,

Sports is a huge part of our community. You are decked out, well, at least your, yeah, your hat is Cubs, you're a huge baseball fan. I'm sure Eva loves the idea that she gets to be connected to that part of dad. And not just watching a game with you, but actually participating and the two of you running the bases, fielding, foul balls, et cetera, together. I can only imagine that that is just...

Teryn (34:40)
Culture.

Ambre (35:03)
such a meaningful thing for her to experience. That's so cool. I love hearing that. that's awesome that she gets that experience. But let's talk about what is the future of sports for kids with disabilities? Where do you see that the programming, the opportunities still has space to grow and improve?

Dugan Sherbondy (35:23)
Yeah, I mean, it's on such a trajectory. So I have high hopes for what that'll look like in the future. I mean, my educated guess is that it will evolve as technology evolves. not only digital technology, but even like wheelchair technology, movement technology. So even something like

You know, as I mentioned, Eva wouldn't be a great fit for playing soccer because her chair would be, we couldn't push it on grass without difficulty or without it being the way too rough and bumpy for her. just wouldn't be pleasant. But I have no doubt at some point in the future, there'll be some chair that has like crazy tractor tires and shocks so that any, you know, anybody in America, how sensitive can, can go on a hiking trail and, and, you know,

Ambre (36:09)
You

Teryn (36:14)
Mm-hmm.

Dugan Sherbondy (36:15)
played soccer and go across the field. You know what saying? So that kind of thing. One of the things that Eva just got approved for, and we just got it a couple of weeks ago, it's a device for people who are nonverbal, like Eva is, to communicate. And it's called an eye gaze machine. Or yeah, eye gaze unit. so it works alongside of a tablet. And so the tablet is mounted with the eye gaze.

piece on the bottom. And what it does is you calibrate it, but it reads a person's eyes and then selects things on the tablet based on where they're looking. So it takes a lot of practice. It's hard for me. It's really hard. It takes a lot of work. But Eva's been working with one for a long time to be able to say even like yes and no, or I want to go outside. I want to stay inside. I'm feeling bored. I'm feeling sad. I'm feeling happy.

Um, you know, we're trying to keep it really, really basic right now, but like that kind of technology is unbelievable. So somebody who, you know, is unable to communicate with their voice can still be able to, and it can be as complex as, as a person's ability would, would let right now. It's very simple as Eva learns it, but you know, that kind of thing where it's like, we could say, do you, do you want to play? You know, do you want to go outside and play baseball? And she could say, like, do you want to join a

A wheelchair basketball league and she can say, yeah, or even when she's playing stuff, it could be like good game or, you know, thanks so much or great catch or, know, that kind of, that kind of thing. So it's that kind of technology that I'm like, is that evolves? I believe the ability to include more and more people will also evolve. But I mean, even what's available now is shocking. It's crazy. It's so wonderful. It's like, you know, really, really wonderful. So I've been.

Teryn (37:38)
No.

Yeah.

Dugan Sherbondy (37:57)
All that I've learned and seen is not the whole picture, but everything I've seen is like so impressive and so exciting and so cool for for people to be able to engage in that. And like you said, mean, unites people who normally wouldn't be united in something simply by the fact that they are clapping for people wearing the same color jersey. And that's it's such a silly thing, but it's like so powerful somehow.

Teryn (38:22)
Yeah. I would say too, in addition to what you just mentioned about where it's going is that we're fortunate that we live in a town and a county that has the resources and or cares about it. I think my hope for the future is that even more so than just continuing to grow this, that we would just get more of this in the world, you know, and, and underprivileged communities and less, you know,

lower income communities, et cetera, et So that's my hope and goal, you know, for this knowledge that we can help grow this into different areas that still need a lot more of these resources.

Dugan Sherbondy (39:02)
Yeah, yeah, I agree.

Teryn (39:03)
So

I have a question about what do you think the general public misunderstands the most about kids with disabilities in sports?

Dugan Sherbondy (39:12)
I think it's really, really easy. We're such a visually based species. so, you know, we, I don't believe it till I see it or prove it or show me the data or if I can't touch and see, don't believe. And I think for a lot, not all, I think a lot of the disabled community.

Like mentally, there's no difference. Eva's a little bit different because she has brain damage, but for the most part, adults, kids, students who have disabilities, a lot of time it's purely a physical barrier, not a mental one. remember a church I worked at a long, long time ago, we had a special needs ministry and there's some just really incredible kids in that. And there was a little kid named Quinn.

who, and this was a long time ago, but they were developing the technology for him to be able to communicate. And they got him a communication device and he worked with it and practiced with it and stuff like that. And the very first thing he said when he had the ability to communicate was people think I'm stupid, which I never forgot that. And that convicted me because, and again, the heart's in the right place, but I just subconsciously would kind of talk down to people with disabilities, just because I...

Ambre (40:12)
Hmm.

Dugan Sherbondy (40:22)
in my ignorance and arrogance maybe was just kind of like the it was subconscious of like the hey, how you do it, you know, just was like that sort of dumbed down and and yeah, exactly. And hearing, you know, Quinn, that was the first thing he said just completely flipped my my brain around to be like, why they are they are the same as me. They just don't have the connections to physically control their body in a way that I can. And that doesn't make them

Teryn (40:31)
Baby tones.

Ambre (40:32)
Mm-mm.

Dugan Sherbondy (40:49)
any less, not just less like in a society, but that like any less intelligent or fun or creative or it's just they just have this disability to be able to physicalize in the way that I can. so that really that changed the way I approach or like interact with people with disabilities is like, just I'm going to talk to you like I would talk to anybody else because you are just like me. And it's going to look

different here, but that doesn't change the connection we can have as people, as human beings. I mean, that's why the inclusion part of what Eva gets to experience is it gives me so much hope because there isn't this stigmatism of people with disabilities or wheelchairs. I mean, it's one of the very random silver linings for my son, who's nine now. But for him, like,

you know, somebody with disabilities, somebody in a wheelchair, he lives with that every day. So when we're out, that's just like not a thing for him, which I kind of love that perspective that that's not the, it's, you know, I'm in a stair. What's going on there? It's just like, yeah, my sister's in a wheelchair too. That's, yeah, makes sense. So I think, I think that, like, ⁓ just kind of mental perspective changed a lot of the way that I think about the, yeah, people with disabilities. Yeah.

Ambre (42:39)
So when things get really hard for you, maybe Eva has to go back to the hospital, something is challenging, something is really scary, what encourages you, sustains you, gives you hope.

Dugan Sherbondy (42:50)
Mmm.

Very good question. ⁓

so for a period of time, I chose to cope in a way that was not healthy through alcohol, abused alcohol in a way that it was like from when I would wake up till 7 p.m. I was like there present engaged, whether at the hospital or home, like whatever, whatever I need to do, whatever I can. But once it hit once, basically it was like once Phoenix went to bed or

or both the kids went to bed, that's when I would pour my first drink because I didn't want to have to face what I was really feeling or what I was really thinking or the unanswered questions. It was just so heavy. was afraid that would overwhelm me and take me out in a way that I wasn't prepared to face. So I used alcohol to numb that. And there's been a couple other coping mechanisms that I've, even when I stopped drinking, that I

started like down a road towards and started to be become addicted or fell into this like compulsion. And, and it's really only been probably in the last like year and a half that I've like really had to dig down to uproot some stuff that not, not even just because of Eva's accident, but that's been there my whole entire life since I was a kid of

really, really unhealthy habits and coping mechanisms. Not always, I mean, not substances necessarily, but just like isolation, deceit, self-soothing, distraction, just so much stuff that has been there my whole entire life. And I think the, I mean, the biggest thing I would say when I'm in like a darker place, because my tendency is to isolate,

and self-cope, even with something that would be maybe considered neutral or not unhealthy, I really have to push myself to reach out, to externalize whatever's going on inside of myself. Because I know if I keep it inside, it'll make it a lot worse. It'll keep it so much worse. And I went to an intensive counseling retreat about a year and a half ago in Tennessee.

And there was some stuff that came out again about my childhood and then also about specifically Eva's accident that was really, for lack of a better term, really therapeutic. stuff that I didn't know was there, stuff that I had never really acknowledged or thought I was the way that I was thinking about it, I thought was wrong, but turns out like that was okay. And I could lean into that. So there was a lot that that uprooted that made it really clear. Like if I ever move forward with something and keep it

internalized, that's going to make it so much worse. so even though I lead a recovery ministry ⁓ on Monday nights, and one of the things we always talk about is sometimes the simple act of just saying or writing, like just externalizing something in and of itself is really healing. And that's the danger for me is I would isolate, I would shut down, I would distract, I would numb out. And I'm learning very slowly how

Not to do that. So my answer would be I would would reach out and I have a couple of friends who are, you brothers and know everything about me and I can say anything and know that they're not going to. Judge me or treat me differently or whatever, so that's that's the discipline I'm learning learning to do.

Teryn (46:00)
It's really quite impressive how you've taken your life scenario and you've really done the work to try and get yourself and your family to a place where you are, where you are. I mean, it's not an accident that you've had a good year, you know, and I think your mom just was just telling us that recently too, that she's like, for the first time in a while, I feel like peace, you peaceful.

When I go to Dugan's house and, just knowing that, you know, Eva's, you know, in a good place. And I think part of that is obviously time and health and continuing to work out what she's got going on, but you guys doing the work to, just making sure you're okay. And I, it's, it's very, very, ⁓ I'm honored to know you honestly, just because of how, how you've handled it. Like it's really, it's really cool to see. So thank you for that.

Dugan Sherbondy (46:54)
Well, and this, I mean, this is the.

This is the part where like anybody going through anything like that, there's a really painful season to get here. And speaking for myself, I just never wanted to go through that. I just never wanted to go through that painful situation until I was really forced to, until I was caught or found out or stuff came into the light. And I was forced with a decision to choose my coping mechanism or health and my family and you know.

But the middle part of that is the journey that is super hard and super painful. But I'm convinced it's a journey that all of us will have to go through probably multiple times in our life, hopefully not to the severity that myself or other people have gone through. ⁓ I thought often about Psalm 23 is this really amazing, beautiful poetic psalm, and it's probably hanging in your

Teryn (47:32)
Hehehe.

Ambre (47:32)
Mm-hmm.

Dugan Sherbondy (47:46)
grandmother's bathroom or something. And it's, I mean, it's like quoted so much. It's really beautiful. But the part that we, at least I often missed was when he says, although I walked through the valley of the shadow of death, you are with me. What it doesn't say is right before I walked through the valley of the shadow of death, you pick me up and we skip it. And then I'm in the meadow. Then the meadow and the stream and thank you for all that. It's acknowledging like.

Teryn (47:50)
Yeah.

Hahaha

Dugan Sherbondy (48:10)
God's not ever saying, yeah, you'll avoid pain, you'll avoid difficulty if you follow me. What he's saying is there will be seasons of death. I the valley of death where you will have to die to yourself, die to an unhealthy habit, but I'll be with you, is what he says. And that's one of the things that I feel like I've experienced since Eva's accident in a way that I talked about before, I believed before, but really got to experience of like even in the midst of that.

I knew that God was present.

Teryn (48:41)
Thank you. Well, as we conclude, you've been great. Thank you for sharing your heart and all of this. If you were to give advice to someone who wants to go volunteer or be part of a miracle league or something like that in their town, do you have any first steps or can you give them any advice? I think probably you would have some advice more than anything for those people to just get started and maybe open their eyes to a different community that they aren't so familiar with.

Dugan Sherbondy (49:10)
⁓ as far as getting involved, I think it's just go to their website. That was, that was, I jumped on their website and it was like all the stuff to connect and volunteer. All that is there. advice probably just goes back to the thing that I learned a while ago, which is, is, treating people with disabilities, the exact same you would, you would treat anybody else. And they might look different, act different, respond different, but they're absolutely the same and engaging with, with folks in that way.

It's just really, really rewarding. I mean, I would say too, like probably the biggest hesitation for many people is just the uncharted waters of that, like the unfamiliarity of what that would look like. So it really is just a matter of like committing to it. You know, it's like when you start a brand new job, first three weeks, you're like nervous every single time you walk through the door, like you don't know the systems, you don't know the, you know, people and all that kind of thing. And, and, but eventually you like it used to, it's the same thing. It would just be like, just jump in both feet and

and you'll learn along the way. And I mean, it's truly one of those like, you'll probably walk away more blessed than you thought you'd bless someone else. Like you'll probably experience that reciprocated back to you. So yeah, so I say jump in and it'll always be unfamiliar until you do it. But it's really, really rewarding.

Teryn (50:19)
Very true.

Ambre (50:20)
Well, I knew this conversation was going to be impactful and enlightening and all those things. I did not expect it to also be so powerful. Thank you for being really vulnerable and talking about Eva and her accident, but also talking about your experience of the accident and the years before and after. So thank you for...

Thanks for letting our listeners hear your story. I know that it's gonna be a powerful one for them as well. And thanks for taking time out of your busy day as baseball coach. I guess that's tomorrow. To chat with us. off season, off season, naturally. ⁓

Teryn (51:01)
BAAAAM

Dugan Sherbondy (51:01)
Well, actually, she's done for the year. It's the off season now. So yeah. So now we're just hitting the gym, lot of deadlifts. Yeah, we're just getting in shape. Yep, getting in shape for next year.

Teryn (51:06)
Okay, resting.

Dugan Sherbondy (51:11)
Actually, today, when she played bags today, it was a pitching machine that they put the bag in. Like she hit a lever, and then it would launch the bag to the, so she was using a pitching machine.

Teryn (51:19)
That's amazing. I actually, I think

I need one of those.

Ambre (51:22)
Talk about technology. There you go. Boom.

Dugan Sherbondy (51:23)
Yeah, right. Yeah, you just aim it in. It's

perfect every time. Wait, can I ask you guys a question? Like very off topic. We're shifting gears without a clutch. I'm sorry. I'm curious as you guys have done this podcast, which is so much fun to listen to, what's been your favorite thing that you, both of you have learned about sports or something specific or something general? I'm just curious.

Teryn (51:27)
Yeah.

Ambre (51:29)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Teryn (51:32)
Yeah.

Favorite things learned. Do you have one off the top of your head?

Dugan Sherbondy (51:46)
Or like more most interesting or most surprising.

Ambre (51:49)
I'm gonna totally skate around that question and answer it. ⁓ I tell Teryn all the time that my favorite part of this podcast is what we're doing right now when we get to have guests come and talk to us because, okay, between the two of us, Teryn is more knowledgeable about sports by far. And as we interview guests, we get to actually sort of...

Dugan Sherbondy (51:54)
Love it.

nice. Yeah.

⁓ okay.

Ambre (52:15)
heel back, even the things you see on TV and learn about something deeper and learn about a human connected or adjacent to a sport. So just, I think, realizing more than ever before what an amazing cross-section of our world sports is. It's my favorite part.

Dugan Sherbondy (52:21)
Mmm.

Mm.

Teryn (52:34)
Yeah.

Dugan Sherbondy (52:35)
That's great.

Teryn (52:35)
Yeah. I, I really enjoy learning about the, well, I think for me, big part of it is being able to talk about sports in a way that helps other people understand. I feel like I'm a, naturally a teacher. I've done a lot of training roles in my life. So like being able to maybe something that I've known my whole life or maybe something that I'm learning more about digging in a little bit deeper into. maybe it's, you know,

NBA rules or whatever, know, something very specific that I don't know like the intricacies of. How can process it and then take it and give it back out to people in a way that they can understand? Because I think there's, it's a fine line, right? Because some people want to know the intricacies and some people are like, no, no, Like your mom probably, she's just like, tell me the high level. I want to understand.

Ambre (53:22)
⁓ you

Teryn (53:23)
Like I want to be able to like walk into a room and see a basketball game on and know like just enough to be able to hold up a conversation. But so I think it's fun and it's an interesting way. Like Ambre and I came up with this idea knowing that like kind of from the basis of like, we know just enough to be dangerous, right? Like we know just enough about sports to be able to hold some conversations with people, but not like we're not experts. Like I'm not out there, you know, doing any, you know,

Dugan Sherbondy (53:43)
Hahaha

Teryn (53:50)
broadcasting or not Stephen A or anything like that. you know, just trying to relate to people. I know, I know that was probably a bad example.

Dugan Sherbondy (53:56)
I'm so glad you're not, Steven.

Ambre (53:59)
Me too.

Dugan Sherbondy (54:00)
People would have to turn their

volume down a lot if you were Steven.

Teryn (54:03)
No,

I know. I know exactly. yeah, I think it's cool.

Ambre (54:03)
Yeah.

Dugan Sherbondy (54:05)
I love what you said, Ambre, about

the story behind there's people. It's like, you know, athletes and occasionally the stories are not good, but I mean, more than not, more often than not. fact, this past Sunday, David Montgomery, who's a running back for the Detroit Lions, his sister, I think about a year ago was in an accident that left her to say she's paraplegic now. And so she's in a wheelchair and do a variety of reasons. She had never.

since then gotten to see him play live. And so this past Sunday was the first opportunity that she had and like his mom was there. And they showed him in the locker room for the game and he's like hugging her and talking to us, all that. And then they showed her in the stands at one point right after Montgomery scored a touchdown and everybody was cheering and they cut to his sister who was kind of excited. And then right in front was a, they were in Cincinnati, they're playing the Bengals.

And right in front were these Bengals fans. And the guy turns around and like sticks it and they like fist bump. Which I mean, of course, SportsCenter was like, look how awesome sports are. The love and connectivity. Such a cool clip. was really cool. Yeah. Yeah. So it's fun. Oh, wait. Can I tell you my theory about sports? And then you can kick me off. I'm sorry. Here's here's my. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Ambre (55:01)
Goosebumps.

Teryn (55:04)
Yeah.

So cool.

Ambre (55:08)
I love that.

Teryn (55:13)
Yes, absolutely.

Ambre (55:14)
Wait, wait, wait. Also, also one really quick thing.

The coolest thing I've learned, the first hockey puck was made out of cow poop. That one is sticking in my brain for sure. Yeah. Who would have thought? Cow dung, the first hockey puck. Anyway, back to you. What's your theory?

Dugan Sherbondy (55:22)
⁓ I don't think I knew that.

What are they,

no, but what's the term for cow? Don't they call it a thing? What do they call it? cow pies. They it cow pies. That's what I was thinking. Yeah.

Ambre (55:32)
Manure, I guess? Cow pies, exactly. There

Teryn (55:34)
Chop it.

Ambre (55:35)
we go. First hockey puck, boom.

Dugan Sherbondy (55:38)
And what did you get? Have you got, have you done golf yet about the first golf ball?

Ambre (55:41)
You know, we've done four golf episodes and we have not hit the first golf ball. What was it made out of? Tell us.

Teryn (55:41)
No.

Dugan Sherbondy (55:46)
my gosh. was, it was

like leather stuffed with feathers. They like shoved feathers in there till it was super hard. And then they would hit that. They called it the feather ball. Yeah. All right. Here's one of my theories about sports is, have you done a fantasy football episode yet?

Teryn (55:54)
Interesting.

Mm-hmm.

Dugan Sherbondy (56:01)
When's your next one? Yes, so bad. Okay, I would love to be it. Well, I really wanted to start a fantasy football league at Heartland at the church I go to because I've really, this is specific to, I can't overgeneralize. This is mostly specific to most men. I'm not over, I'm not saying everybody, but I think the reason men, most men are drawn to sports so much is because

Teryn (56:02)
You wanna be on? We'll bring you on. Okay, let's do it.

Ambre (56:05)
Yeah.

Noted.

Dugan Sherbondy (56:28)
It is a safe way to express emotion about something that doesn't matter. that's like for a guy, I mean, I'm speaking for myself, like I'm learning now how to express emotion, like what that looks like, a healthy way to do that. for guys, you know, it's like you watch a football game and it's like, I've never seen this guy comes to church and just stands and, but then the game, they're just yelling and hugging strangers and high five. And I'm like, I think it's cause it's an opportunity to express emotion.

Ambre (56:32)
Hmm.

Dugan Sherbondy (56:56)
which deep down we all know we have to do, but it's an environment that's safe because this thing doesn't matter. So I don't have to get vulnerable. There's no, theories.

Teryn (57:02)
That's

a good theory. I don't think you're wrong.

Ambre (57:02)
That's genius. Yeah.

Dugan Sherbondy (57:06)
This is not the first time I've been called a genius today. Let me tell you that. ⁓

Ambre (57:07)
Alright, brag.

Teryn (57:08)
I doubt that

highly.

Dugan Sherbondy (57:13)
It's first time I've been called it in my life. yeah. No, man, thank you for the opportunity and privilege. would, dude, I will come back for any episode you do.

Teryn (57:16)
So funny

Perfect.

Ambre (57:23)
Amazing.

Be careful what you offer, because that could be a thing.

Teryn (57:26)
Yeah, seriously.

Dugan Sherbondy (57:27)
Hey, I don't have 11 jobs like Teryn, okay? I just, mean, care for my beautiful daughter.

Ambre (57:29)
Hahaha!

Teryn (57:30)
That's true. That's true. Hey, do you want to just host one with

Ambre one time? Give me a day off.

Dugan Sherbondy (57:35)
No, it wouldn't be the same

without you. It wouldn't be the same without you.

Ambre (57:37)
We need

you in here to like kind of like rip off of, know, make fun of a little bit. Yeah, you're an easy target. All right, Dugan. Well, thank you so much for being our guest today. It has been so fun. My face hurts. I said, just a really meaningful episode and we cannot wait for our listeners to hear it.

Teryn (57:41)
Sure, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it, got it.

That was funny.