Dragon's Gold: The Magic of Mindset

Navigating Life’s Labyrinth: Grant Steunenberg's Journey of Resilience and Recovery

• Justin Mills • Season 1 • Episode 9

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🎙️ Episode Summary:

In this inspiring episode of Dragon’s Gold: The Magic of Mindset, Justin Mills chats with Grant Steunenberg, vice principal at Carlemont High School. From ski racing and football fields to navigating personal challenges and finding his purpose in education, Grant’s journey is a testament to resilience, growth, and mentorship. He shares how his experiences shaped his passion for working with youth and how setbacks led to profound personal growth and recovery.

✨ Key Themes:

  • Transitioning from sports to education
  • Resilience in the face of personal and professional challenges
  • The role of mentorship in fostering growth and success
  • Lessons from recovery and applying them to inspire the next generation

🔑 What You’ll Learn:

  • The power of embracing change and finding joy in new paths
  • How mentorship and coaching can transform lives
  • Why failure is an opportunity for growth
  • Insights on addressing youth substance use and guiding better choices

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome once again to another episode of Dragon's Gold, the Magic of Mindset. Today, we have the pleasure of enjoying the company of Grant Stoonenberg, vice principal of Carlemont High School. Grant, welcome to the show. Hi, Justin. Thank you for asking me to come on. Absolutely, it was a pleasure my friend. Well, I'd love to just dive right in. Let's talk about the origin story. How did it all begin for Grant? well, I grew up on the other side of the Bay in a little town called Alamo, just between Walnut Creek and Danville. You know, I grew up a fairly privileged childhood, to be completely honest with you, had, you know, didn't didn't want for much. I was very fortunate. had very caring parents who, you know, took care of all my needs and didn't have a whole lot of, struggles or anything as a kid I say in comparison maybe to a lot of the kids I've worked with over the years. I'd say that some of the things that really formed kind of who I was as a person was sports. think growing up, I played all kinds of different sports and that kind of shaped, you know, just my interests in the world and kind of in life. I would say that as a kid or and teenager and early 20s. I wouldn't describe myself as a wonderful student. I didn't love school, which is ironic that I went into education. But athletics and playing sports, I think, really shaped the trajectory of my career. in high school, I should say, middle school, I started ski racing. as was one thing I was very, like I said, I kind of grew up to privilege kid. My dad grew up in the Midwest and when he moved out here to California with my mom, he had someone that took him skiing and he fell in love with it head over heels. And then so when we were up there skiing, I think so he could go and ski around with my mom. He connected me with a race team at Northstar and got me on the race team. And I then fell head over heels in love with skiing and ski racing. So I grew up in middle school and through high school ski racing, traveling around, and was decent in my field for my age group. I had aspirations. Of course, every kid wants to be on the US ski team and ski on the World Cup and go to Europe and do all that. But I was a good ski racer. wasn't. elite. You know, I'd say by about the time I was, you know, a senior in high school, which is when you're it's the make it or break it for whether you're going to be going on to that next level. I was about around in like maybe the top 25 in my age group in the country, which might sound really, really great. But really, when you're talking about it, they take maybe one or two kids out of that, that top 25 in the country to move on to the next level. And colleges and things are not all you're not as interesting to them as far as the ski. The sport of ski racing isn't big enough that they have big scholarship programs to go and ski in college or anything. So I kind of knew my days were limited there. At the same time, I played football in the East Bay at Montevista High School. And I was a better football player than I was a skier. And so my senior year, I started getting recruited by colleges and kind of went through the recruitment process. And by the time senior year had come around, was provided a walk-on opportunity to go to San Jose State. so there were some other offers I had, but I liked the proximity of San Jose. liked their program. I didn't get a scholarship right off the bat, but I was provided the opportunity to walk on and make the team. So I went ahead and did that and went to San Jose State and got on the team and eventually earned a scholarship. which in a way was even more meaningful to me than having one given to me right out of high school. I was given the chance to try out for the team, I made the team, and then in the course of that, they then awarded me with a full ride scholarship. So I got that and that was a meaningful thing to me to kind of earn that. And after about four years of playing, notice that I had this. tremor in my hand. My hand was starting to shake. And so right before my senior year, I went to see a doctor. And he said, he referred me to a neurologist and then looked at things and said, you've got permanent nerve damage from, you know, the hits and all the all the hitting and it's in the, you know, somewhere in the brain stem. And it's not dramatic. It's not going to be life altering. It's nothing that's going to be any problem. How serious are you about football? Are you going on to play pro or are that's God know it. I was like a perennial second string linebacker in college and I earned my way on to playing in special teams mostly. And so I said, no, I'm not going on. He said, well, how much longer do you have? I said, I one more year. And he said, well, you can either play one more year and I can tell you that tremor may dramatically increase. It may stay the same, but you're gonna have that tremor for the rest of your life. it's up to you whether you want to play the last year. And it was about that time I I said, you know what, I think I'm going to hang up my cleats and just kind of move on. And at that same time, I was able to reconnect with some people I knew in Tahoe and at Northstar and got on as a ski coach up there and started coaching ski racing and working with kids. And that was sort of my introduction to working with Basically. Let's see here. I also would then, that next fall, I started coaching football. You know, when it wasn't ski season, I started coaching football over in Danville at San Ramon Valley High School, where my old football coach was now a vice principal. He was a mentor in my life, and I might go ahead and talk about him a little bit more later. But, you know, he got me into coaching football. so I would coach football in the fall, and I was, you know, coaching ski racing in the winter and in between I was finishing up my bachelor's degree. transferred, moved back home with my parents and finished up my last year and a half at St. Mary's College over in Moraga. So, you know, I finished degree and I kind of went off the grid for a few years. growing off the grid, I was kind of a ski bum, worked as my ski coach thing. I did construction sometimes in the summer and then I was coaching football in the fall. And that was kind of what, like I said, what kind of got me interested in working with kids. And at one point my dad looked at me and said, you're not really making any progress in life right graduated, you're getting into your mid-20s. What's your plan? And at that point I thought, I've got a degree in English. I like working with kids. Maybe I should get a teaching credential. So that's kind of how I got into education was. I enjoyed working with kids. enjoyed coaching. enjoyed when you teach a concept and there was that click and they got it and the light bulb went off and you saw that they started to apply that new knowledge and it was football or skiing. So I really enjoyed that. So I went back to school and at St. Mary's, moved back home again, finished my teaching credential and began my teaching career. That's kind of, I guess, the origin story. I love the stories that you're sharing and just the experience. I think about, we have a passion, something we really enjoy, athletics, right? You go and do this thing that brings you happiness and you have these experiences. And then something comes along and throws you this curve ball. Having that nerve damage is obviously not something you anticipated and good that you got it checked. And you had to make a choice, real time, do I keep pushing forward? and what's the risk versus what's the reward. And sometimes from crisis comes opportunity. In this situation, because of what that was, it pushed you to go a different path, i.e. going back into skiing and then teaching and coaching kids, which helped you to find a love and a passion, something that brings you joy. And in service, you help people. maybe that's not something that you would have experienced otherwise. And so it's an unfortunate thing to have to experience, but luckily it didn't get worse, right? And you made an educated decision to pivot or adjust. And in many times in life, we have to make those real time choices. Something that you would mention in regards to, to coaching kids. And I, one of the things I love, have a passion for teachers. I think that So, thank you. heroes. I think that your job is not nearly as full of gratitude as it should be, at least certainly not acknowledged. We talk about the leap of faith and a pivotal moment when you decide to move forward in a new trajectory or move forward into the world of education. Is there anything you can share with us of when you knew that was what you wanted to pursue and how did you move into that? You know, I think, like I said, what was rewarding to me as someone young in my mid-20s when I began working with kids and, like I said, in coaching, you teach them something and they had that aha moment. That right there was just, it was a hook. Watching people, young people. get something and you've passed on some knowledge to them and they've actually been able to apply it. And then you see them using it and improving upon whether it's the skills or the way they're approaching problems. So I think it's the act of being in a mentorship kind of a role. Because really that's all teaching and whether you're teaching, coaching, working with kids is, is you're acting in a mentorship role. Some people are more attuned to taking that, whether it's advice, coaching, teaching, and applying it. And other people are not as coachable. They're not as inclined to take that. the ones who do, they're the easy ones. And I think as someone who's worked with kids and is an educator, you tend to then focus more on the ones who aren't as coachable, the ones who don't have that innate sense of wanting to just work hard at school or work toward something and instead are kind of, whether they're just not showing that they've got a whole lot of initiative to move forward in their life. And those are the students that I tend to be drawn more toward. and that I've built stronger relationships with over the years are those because when they do, and they don't all have that, you know, that click where they start to move, but you do have a number of them who at some point, a lot of it's just maturity, they get to a point and they begin to realize that they're going to be moving on in their lives and they start to take things a little bit more seriously. But when you see a shift occur Once again, it's kind of like a drug. It's addictive as the person who's working with them to see that improvement, to see them making better choices having a little bit more initiative in their life and transferring from adolescence into adulthood. And it's really rewarding. absolutely. It sounds rewarding and I can absolutely believe seeing that light bulb, that aha moment, incredibly gratifying, not just for you, but certainly for them as well, right? To feel like, yes, I got it. And then to move on to whatever it is that excites them, right? And to follow that path further, So we were talking a moment ago in regards to trials and obstacles, moments where you've had situations where perhaps more difficult students, What were those moments and how did you overcome them? Well, this goes into a little bit more of my own personal story. I kind of stopped the origin story about where I kind of entered into doing education. I take a lot of the experiences that I have with my students from my own life and from my own experience. One thing I didn't go into in that whole story was that I liked to party when I was younger. was, you know, definitely what went along with the athletics was the party that followed. you know, with ski that's a population that is a little bit wilder, I would say, in regards to, you know, the risk takers. You you're going at a high rate of speed. you you get into a community of adrenaline junkies. And what goes along with sort of that is a, sort of the partying. aspect on outside after the skiing's over. Same thing, though, I'd say with a lot of athletics and in football, it was the same way. You know, in high school, we worked hard and we partied just as hard. those habits that I developed when I was in my teens began to follow me into adulthood. And I continued on with, you know, using a lot of alcohol primarily. But as I got older, I began to dabbling other substances as well. And it began to have an impact on my life. And this is one of the lessons that I bring along to students today is that the habits that you form now, it's not like you're going to overnight just become some addict that's staking on the streets. addiction and those types of things is a long progressive illness and it's and you start your habits, you know, when you're 14, 15, 16 years old and those habits can carry on into your future and you begin to see that the way that this affects you oftentimes 10, 15 years into your future. that's that's what it happened to me. So I like I said, I partied a lot. I abused substances. regularly up until, you know, I was in my early thirties. And I had gotten to a point in my life where I was at that point, I was a teacher. I was working toward my master's degree to start to become an administrator, to become a vice principal. I was working on my master's degree in educational leadership. And on the outside, my life was was crumbling around me. my substance use had gotten to a point where my life had become unmanageable. and I was not, I didn't know what to do other than you, you fit into this very, self-destructive cycle of use where you're seeing it impact your relationships. you're seeing it impact your work And then there was sort of this guilt that was always underlying that I'm working with kids and yet I'm living this life that I'm not proud of. And so I'm like a hypocrite to who I am. And so you don't feel like you're being true to yourself. Long story short, had a night, luckily I didn't have any life-changing experiences, Justin. didn't have anything that my substance use didn't overlap and impact any other people. I was lucky that I didn't have any arrests or anything that would have really gotten in the way of a career in education, anything like that. Although I was doing things that that by all means should have. And that was another thing, you know, is that the constant worry of of am I going to get caught drinking and driving or, you know, being caught with something that I shouldn't have in my possession? know, that those were those were constant worries as well. Like I said, I got to a point I was about 33 years old I hit a bottom. And it was this moment where I just stopped and I was pretty drunk at the time, but I just said like, what am I doing? And actually, you know, something that had happened, you know, it occurred, my wife had come out into the garage when I was sneaking some alcohol. It was in January we were watching movies and she had gone to the bathroom. ran out to the garage and I... was drinking off a whiskey bottle that I had stashed in the garage. And she walked out and she just looked at me and she's like, what are you doing? And it wasn't like a, what are you doing? It was just disgust in her voice was just, what are you doing? And it resonated with me. that was my bottom. I had hit this bottom and it had been eating away at me for years. I just said, I don't know what I'm doing. My life is unraveling. just, I was at a loss. So I looked into I was living in Reno at the time. I was working in the Tahoe area and I got up the next day and I went to a meeting of AA and I just, I met some people there at that first meeting and they just kept saying, you know, they embraced me and just said, hey, just keep coming back. What are you doing tomorrow? Hey, there's a meeting down here, you know, on this street. This is really good. And, you know, and hey, how about you go to this? And slowly, you know, I started going into the rooms of recovery and it took for me. I was very fortunate. It took and I found sort of a new path in life because when I got sober and when the cloud of alcohol and all the other substances sort of began to dissipate, my life began to sort of fit back into place. chaos that I was living in, that I had no idea how to organize and figure out. was suddenly just became very clear that like this is the next step and then this next and the next and the next. So, and I should add, I said I was working on my master's degree for educational leadership. I was on the verge of being kicked out of that program. I had fallen behind on a number of assignments. I was not a top-notch student in the program at that point. I went down and met with the director of the program and explained to him that I had entered recovery and was working on my sobriety. He gave me a reprieve a few months and said, let's get you through the rest of this semester without going to school. You get caught up on your assignments, work on some things over the summer, then re-engage in the program that next fall. And so I did. So I had purpose. I really wanted to finish that master's degree. And like I said, my job as an educator, became, I became a much better teacher immediately. I felt like I was able to be present with the kids. I wasn't fighting a hangover daily. wasn't, you know, worrying about at the end of the day, you know, getting, getting my drinks, you know, but, know, after work, that, that whole thing had been taken away. I was able to, to, provide better feedback, you know, when I was, was an English teacher. you know, giving, you know, right, correcting essays and doing all the paperwork that went along matter. You know, I, I became just better at what I did. so that was one of those spots, those low points in my life that I am so, so grateful for. I can look at the fact that I was able to find sobriety, find a good group, the sobriety in Reno is unbelievable. People you need to think like Reno, that's a party town and it really is. But you've also got a lot of people who have found Sobriety and who found recovery and it's got a very, very strong recovery community. And I was able to dive in and found, you know, a new social group, a group of friends, people who support you. You know, you go out to dinner before you go to a meeting. were, I had people to now like to go golfing with, I had people go skiing with, I had people to go out and hike and do all this, these fun activities like life without substances. When you're so embedded in using substances, you don't really even think about how good life can be without it. you have a group of people to surround yourself with, it... makes life more than manageable, it makes it, you see that there's a new way to live life. So I would say I have taken the lessons I've learned in recovery and I try to apply them daily with the students I work with. that's one of those, it's provided me uniquely in my job as a vice principal where I'm working with kids and I catch kids who are under the influence of alcohol, who are, you know, carrying, know, their possession of marijuana at school. Those are the two big ones really in high school. But you know, they're high at school and they're beginning that journey of substance use in their teens where they're forming their life habits. They're creating those neural, they're actually their neural pathways for escape and for. you know, a reward and the reward system is through, you whether it's getting high or drinking or, you know, using any substances, they're beginning that journey now. And when I do catch kids, I have it gives me the opportunity to share with them a little bit about, the direction your choices can make now and how it's like this. Like I said earlier, it's not a overnight type of a thing. It's a progressive thing. And it doesn't mean that everyone is going to go down that path. A lot of people they use and they party and they do stuff in high school, they get into their adult life and that just kind of, they grow out of it. they might be able to drink and use regularly and be totally functional members of society. Most people are, but there are those also who fall into the category of having addictive behaviors and to... begin to have their life unravel. And I sort of feel like if I'm able to pass that message onto them young enough, that if they get to a point in their life later on where their life does become unmanageable, that they can hopefully reflect back on and remember that there is another way to live outside of this. that the choices that you started using, that you started making in your teen years is now, it's caught up with you and that there is another way to live your life. Incredibly powerful story, Grant. Really grateful for you opening up and sharing your experiences with myself and the listeners and in the hope that someone that hears this needs to hear this, recognizing that our choices absolutely have consequences, whether it be for us or other people around us, the ripples that come from that, the impact that we make is oftentimes greater than realize. I completely understand how you talk about that foundational change, the way that it compounds. What seems innocent and easy at first, an escape or a good time can very quickly snowball into this bigger impact. And I can tell you firsthand, I completely understand that perspective and respect and appreciate growth and the maturity that it takes to realize that and to come out on the other side of a moment like that. It's interesting how many habits that we create and how easy it makes things become and how in order to try and change that, Some people have sheer force of will, recognize it and grind in. But the reality is the vast majority of people need that support structure. They need someone to help them, right? To throw them that rope. And you have to be willing to climb it. But the combination of which is really where the magic happens in many cases. We talk about the fellowship, we talk about allies, mentors, people that have helped us along our journey. And certainly you've shared in this situation, a high level, some... Well, absolutely. And it's funny to use the term fellowship because in AA, they call themselves the fellowship. is the fellowship of AA and it is a group of mentors who work to support one another. So I love the word fellowship and that idea. As far as people growing up, I mentioned that when I started coaching, I first started coaching football and my old football had gone on and by the time I was getting into coaching, he had moved on from the high school football coach and PE teacher into a vice principal role. So when I started coaching, and it was only about five, four or five years after I'd finished playing for him. So he was on that path himself. His name is Rob Stockburger. He is a storied coach. If you do a little digging on Rob Stockburger and path as a football coach in the East Bay, he We had a very and at Montevista where I played, was fortunate, had just this amazing stretch of years of success. And so much of that success was due to Coach Stockburger. talk about a career driven oriented person who also had a set of values and moral values that he passed on to his to his players. So he is a person who is, I think, very instrumental in my development and growth, both as an athlete and as as a person who went toward education. I would get in fact, whenever I go into a meeting or something where I know it's going to be a little bit stressful, I tell myself to channel my inner stock burger. And, you know, I tell myself that because he had a way of slowing things down when you're in a stressful situation and he talked to you and he would slow it down and he would be very, very thoughtful in the words that he chose. And it's so often that we speak really fast and we get really excited and our words start to come out and really it's not as meaningful that if you slow it down. So that's like something I try to do. And I say, I channel that. he was one person who, like I said, mentored me as a young athlete. provided a not only just the coaching of football, but also, like I said, a value system that he brought into the program. I can look back on it now with, years of reflection in this, that, we were just got all of us on that team were just like little soldiers. And we were just, yes, sir. we would do everything he said, but he led by example. And, you wanted to please him. wanted to be the best person you could for him. I guess I should say it grew into a culture in that program that then fed itself, generation after generation where he had, over 10, 15 years of success. And it was sort that culture of, the value system that he that he brought. to the team that we all got out of that. Then, like I said, my first coaching job, he was then vice principal and I started coaching. And he would come down and watch what I was doing and he'd provide me a little bit of input. You might not wanna do that. You might wanna think about doing this differently. The way you're talking to the kids, the way you're yelling and you get out there as a football coach and you're, yeah, let's go. And you start to yell at kids. He pulled me aside and go, do you remember me ever yelling you like that? No, he's like, they don't always hear it that way when you're yelling and screaming, you so he would provide those little tidbits of things. And then when I began working on my master's degree, I reconnected with him again and he had talked to me about going from teaching into administration and how much he had really enjoyed that transition. And at that point he had you know, moved up into even a gone from a vice principal to a principal and then into a district level job. that mentorship with him sort of continued into my early career. When I, when I went from teaching into administration, but he's someone that I've, that I've kept in touch with not, not on a regular basis, but when I went through some, or to different, you know, different career path in education, I was able to. get back in touch with him and just pick his brain a little bit about what he thought and some guidance. I'd say some other people. I had another principal I worked for when I got my first administrative job. That's a story in and of itself, but I worked for this man named Bill Fry and was actually teaching my first administrative job as a vice principal. I was teaching at North Tahoe High School and I interviewed for the job over the summer for the vice principal job at Truckee High School, the other high school in our district. And I didn't get the job. And I was devastated. I really wanted to transition over administration. But as I found out later, the person that they hired never showed up to work. There's some reason behind that, but as I get a phone call on October 1st of that year from the principal saying, hey, you interviewed, are you still interested in the position? I said, well, the semester started, I'm teaching, I'm coaching football. And in the middle he goes, I know, but I've already talked to your principal and he's open to releasing you from your contract so that you can come over and be a vice principal over here. so that principal I was working for at the time, his name was Bill Fry. He was all about your career advancement. he was, I got to work that day, then I took the call on my way to work. I was in the car by the time I walked in. He was just like, he basically told me, you don't have a choice. You're not teaching for me anymore. You're going over there and you're starting your career as a vice principal. He kind of just said, we're gonna work it out. It's gonna be a pain in the neck for me to have to cover your teaching spot, hire a new person in the middle of the year, or not in the middle, but in the beginning of the year. That's not the... the time when you hire teachers, but he's like, we're going to find someone and you are going and starting your new career path. And so, you know, that was a person who I really admired and appreciated that. I and he stayed on speed dial for me in that first year that I was a new in the administration that if I had a problem, I wasn't quite sure I could call him up at any time and he would give me his thoughts. But, you know, his his main thing that he told me was just make a decision. There's going to be so many times where you're not sure what to do. you've got to just make a decision. might be the wrong decision. And that's okay, because we all make bad decisions at times. And we can go back on them, reflect on the decision and do it differently the next time. He said, but the worst thing you can do is have indecision. You can't just sit there and not know what to do and allow a situation to spiral out of control because you can't make a definitive decision and go with it. And that was really good advice that he gave me. that's something I think you can just apply to almost any. of your life, doesn't matter what career you're in, is, you know, being in a position of indecision is never going to be a way to be successful. Grant, think beyond just that story, what you just shared, that moment, that example is such a powerful piece that I think will help and affect so many people's lives. That idea about making a decision, being decisive, right? Taking action and knowing and recognizing that it won't always be the right choice, it won't always be the right thing, but you'll learn from it, right? And taking the steps to move forward. So powerful and I'm grateful you said it because I think that there are a lot of people that do sit on the sidelines or wait for the right moment to jump in and the right time is now. Take that action. So thank you for that. say this. I'll say this is one of the things that I did learn in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous is that it's important to take ownership of your poor decisions. having that courage the rooms, they talk a lot about fear. A lot of what fuels our substance use was fear. And a lot of it's fear of like doing what to do. And it is that sort of being that indecisiveness. And so whenever I'd had a chance to make that decision and I was fearful about what I was going to do, doing it anyways. then if I needed to make amends for the way that I had handled the situation or if I didn't do it the best, Then stepping up and saying, I didn't do that the right way. But in the moment, that's how I did it. And I can move forward and learn and being transparent about that and being okay with yourself enough to say like, I'm human. I made a choice. It wasn't the right choice, but I made that choice. I own that choice. I'll become a better person because I've learned from that. And now I can move forward. it never ceases to amaze me. how people will forgive you when you own your own part of it. It's like, I screwed up, okay? And I own that I screwed up. So let's move forward. And then the people who won't and who perseverate on wanting to really dig down on your choice, they're the ones that really have got some more inner issues that they're trying to work through. And it's more on them because if you can just kind of let it go and move on, you know that. That's the definition of growing and developing as a human being. a freeing feeling too. yeah, absolutely. can't tell you how many times I've even done things that in the moment, I'm like, I shouldn't have said that I shouldn't have done that. just, you know, and later on, having to go back and say to the person, you know what, in that moment, I said these things. That wasn't that wasn't the right way. And I wasn't being my best self in that moment. And I need to and I need to take ownership of that and make amends to it. And some people are like, don't worry about it and other people are like wow I really appreciate that and so you never really know but but it it frees you. Yes, and even if it's a child, and to clarify with three kids, I've certainly had those moments. Or if it's another a peer, someone you work with, or an adult, even someone you've never met before, someone that you see as a passerby in the grocery store. Seeing that moment, and you don't always have the chance to apologize or recognize or acknowledge the moment, but if you can still look back and reflect on it and grow from that, you can do better in the future, right? Well, and it's one of the tenants of recovery. It's, I think, the 11th step. It's you continue to take a personal inventory and when you are wrong, promptly admitted it. That's the step. I think it's step 11, which means that, day by day, you review your day. What did I do right? What did I do wrong? And if I did anything wrong, do I need to go back and make amends for it? Do I need to clean up my side of the street? for I did. And I mean, it's so simple. I mean, it's like such a simple life lesson, but I try to apply that in my life, you know, as much as possible. God, it makes your world so easy. Thank you for all of that. I am grateful for all the stories you've shared and the lessons that have come from that. You you were kind enough to open up to us in regards to that darkest hour, right? And I think everybody has those moments and I don't think that everybody feels comfortable to talk about them. And sometimes that's... the best therapies is opening it up and sharing that with others, right? Not keeping it inside and letting it eat away at you, being able to open up and share those growing pains and allowing someone to come in and help. And whether it's personal, whether it's professional, right? I think that being strong enough to acknowledge that and being strong enough to accept help is something that everyone can benefit from. And I'm really, really grateful for you to share that with us. One of the things I like to think about is the dragon's gold, the achievements, the rewards that we've experienced in our life. from the lessons that we've learned and the moments that we've had. what would you share in regards to mindset shifts or achievements that you've experienced? Well, I'll tell you what. So I'm here, I'm back in the Bay and it really not by choice. But it's turned out to be one of the greatest gifts I could have been given unbeknownst to me, you know, and that's sort of one of those unknown gifts when it happens. But I had I'd been in the Truckee High School for a number of years and got to a point where I was what's called non-re-elected, which means that the superintendent and, you we had a new superintendent at HR basically just said, you know what, we're changing up leadership structure in the school. You've been now a vice principal there for seven years. We are, we're going to shift it up and we're going to be bringing in different people to run the high school. And we are, administrators are at will employees and you can be, you can have at the end of your contract year, they don't have to renew your contract. And so, you know, and I said, did I do something wrong? Was I, and they said, no, no, no, you haven't done anything wrong. There's been no, you you haven't broken any rules or, and I said, it sounds to me like I'm just not a good fit for the direction you're going anymore. And they said, yeah, yeah, that's, that's it. So I kind of had given them the words and I'm like, okay, wonderful. So there I was in the spring of 2013 in March, just being given basically the notice that we're not going to bring you back next year. this life I had built and like I I'd grown up in the Tahoe and Trekkie area. I was that very fortunate kid whose parents were into skiing and got me. So that area had become more of a home to me than actually the Bay Area was. I was known in the community. I could walk around town and trucking. was great because I would run into kids that I had coached when I was their ski coach. I had run into kids that I had taught when I was an English teacher at North Tahoe High School. I had run into kids who were ones that I had as a vice principal there. had one parent who was my ski coach and then his kid, was on the ski team. coached his kid. And then as it would turn out, his kid was then at the high school when I was his vice principal. So I got to be, know, this whole cycle. And so I was very well plugged into that community. So being uprooted from it and basically saying, we're not going to have you work for us anymore. It was just a crushing blow. A few years prior to that, I had gone for the for the principal position at the school. But when I was not given the the opportunity to be the principal at Truckee High School, I I thought I remember having this epiphany. I was making my coffee and say, like, I was bitter. was angry. I pissed off. I'd had a few years of sobriety, thank God. And I'd had a lot of those life lessons that I that I had learned. And, you know, I I was trying to take him and I remember saying, you know, you can be pissed off about this and you can be bitter and resentful and angry. You can become that person. Or you know what, maybe you go back to school. Maybe you start working on a doctorate degree. Maybe you start looking in something else. So I did. I went ahead and I applied back at St. Mary's College where I did my bachelor degree and my teaching credential and my master's degree. They have a really great school of education there. And I went and I enrolled in their doctoral program. And I just started working toward my doctorate. And it was just, it was free because here I was, I still have my job back then. was still a vice principal and I was working on this. I had all of this new knowledge that I was bringing to my job, different ways of approaching problems, having ways of communicating. looking at the structures of organizations and all of this great stuff I was being able to bring into my life. So that disappointment of not being provided an opportunity to have a different leadership position as a principal, I was then taking and applying to my day-to-day work. Then, a couple of years, after I did not get the principal job, I was still working on my doctorate when the word came down that they were going to non-reelect me for coming back that next year. And I had finished the program of the doctoral program. I'd done all my coursework and had been very successful with that and was just beginning the process of writing my dissertation when they dropped that bombshell. I started applying for jobs and going around. as I went about, I ended up, Justin, applying for 75 jobs around the state of California. And I went on 35 interviews. I drove all the way from Southern California to the Northern California coast. was to Central Valley out to the Bay Area. got to see a lot of the state. That was fantastic. And went on all these interviews and I thought I was interviewing well. And was doing well, but I wasn't getting any bites on any jobs. And it really made me doubt myself. like, am I really just not that good? And that was one of the things about being in an administrator. You are sort of on this isolated island. You don't get a lot of feedback. You might get an angry parent who they'll give you their feedback, but as far as how I do my job, didn't get a yearly evaluation from like, you know, the teachers get evaluated. I didn't get any kind of feedback from the principals I worked for. I didn't get any feedback from the district I worked for. So I could, for all I knew, I could have been the best vice principal in the world. I could have been the worst vice principal in the world. I no idea. I had no idea because I learned how to do my job by doing and not by following any kind of a playbook. There's you know, you just you step into the into the role and you learn as you go. here I am interviewing for all of these positions and I'm not getting any bites and I'm going and I just maybe I am maybe I am the worst vice principal that ever was in. You know, that was ever created. I found out a little bit later. through the, I went on an interview for a private school down in Reno, you know, close by, and I had some ties there. The man who interviewed me was good friends with my wife's current principal, and he interviewed me. Apparently he liked me, and he had called the district for some, you know, some follow-up questions, some reference checks on me, and this principal called my wife's principal and said, hey, you need to let your teacher's husband know that his district is sending up red flags with their responses. They're responding in a way that they're not saying he's like a bad employee or anything like that. But the language that they're using is not favorable. for people who are calling back. Well, I've been interviewing since March and this was July when I and I still didn't have a job. I was going into that next school year without a job and I didn't know what the hell I was going to do, Justin. so that principal also chose to not hire me. But he wanted to get the word out to me that the leadership at the district level where I was was not giving a favorable feedback on me for whatever reason, they just were not doing that. And I don't want to sit here and point fingers at them and saying that's not the reason I, you they're the reason I didn't get other jobs. for that, that at least gave me a little bit of like, okay, maybe it's not that I'm the worst vice principal, you know, administrator ever that maybe there was some forces that were working against me. And so miraculously, I saw a job and right now it was end of July, school year begins in the second week in August for most schools and I still didn't have a job and I saw a job posting open up for Carlemont High School. And I knew all about the school district here, I knew it was a fantastic school district and I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw it. So I'm like, hey, I've got to put one more in, this might be the last one that I go on. But I went into that interview with a tactic where I had a backup sheet of references that they could call. And I got to the end of the interview, interview it really well as I felt all my interviews had gone, I thought I had done a really good job. Maybe I talked too much as you're hearing, you're probably going, yeah, he talks a lot. I may have talked a little bit too much in some of my interviews, but I think that was like the biggest ding on me, if anything. And I went into this interview, I got to the end and I said, so I understand you're gonna have to make some reference calls on me. and the people who are in my application, understand those are the ones you're going to directly call. I said, but I wanna just provide you with another list of people that you might want to check with. I think that they might give you a better understanding of who I am as an educator than the person who is listed on my application. As fate would also have it, the principal who was interviewing for those looked at the person and education could be really small world. And she saw who was on my application that she was going to be making the reference call. And she even said in interview, goes, I know him. Yeah, okay. I'll check with him, but I'll also check these other reference calls or these other references you provided. And that actually made all the difference. so I kind of feel like in a way I was able to take fate into my own hands by saying like, here, here's some other people who might give you a little bit more insight. So I think that's just one of those times where you feel like you're just being dealt one blow after another and all the chips are down. I didn't know what I was going to do if the job at Carlemont hadn't come up. Luckily, I was hired for it, but I had no idea what I was going to do. because I've been in education for so many years. I've been, in a way, I've been pigeonholed into this very specific set of skills that I can do. And I had no idea what I could do, what business I could go out into to be successful in other than education. And I was scared out of my mind. And it's still a little bit terrifying that if things do go away and I have to go out in the private sector and find a job. I'm not sure how well I would do. But, you know, I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to try to spin off onto possibilities that may not ever exist. But it's a little bit frightening. But it turned out all right. So I think that, again, so many nuggets of gold in everything that you said there. So the idea about going just time and again, just getting the door shut in your face, or even getting the opportunity to get in the door and thinking that you've done everything well and right, and them saying thank you, no thank you. To have the resilience that's required, the perseverance that you would need to go on interview after interview after interview. but also recognizing that you knew that you had to do this, right? And then it makes me think about the power of relationship. It makes me think about the aspects of about how small this world really is. And not just in professional, but in personal, the reality is that it's not just what we do, it's what people perceive that we do. right or wrong, it's... A situation where when you put yourself out there... So, thank about any of it, you just adapted and you found a new way to introduce new information. You gave new resources to that person. and the door was open for you. Well, and let's be completely transparent here. It's not to say I didn't go through that anger and that resentment. I swirled in what I call the pity party for a good day or so before I realized like, hey, this isn't good for you. I think when we've been wronged, we all love to just like wrap ourselves up in this like for me and how could that be done to me and how dare they? okay, it feels good to kind of go through that, but to stay there isn't gonna help you at all. I think it's healthy to have to get through that moment. those are the things that are important you have to go through and that happens, but you also have to be able to recognize that, I can allow that to taint my feelings about things, or I can use that and put it behind me and move forward. I think it's just part of, again, it's growth. I feel like we're always growing and developing as humans. We don't get to some point in, and well, I think some people stagnate. They get to a point and they're like, they're good with who they are and they kind of stagnate and stay where they are and who they are in their development as people. But I think for people who really want to live a happy, fulfilling life, they're always going to be looking, staying in that negative place. They can, you can go through it, you can experience it and be upset and angry about it. But there, you'll find those are the people who learn how to either let it go and move on or take it and use it as motivation however you take those negative experiences, but applying them in some way grow and develop and move on to the next phase of your life, I think is so important, you know, for. for our development as humans. Finding joy in the journey is so paramount. Growing and expanding, but enjoying the process right along the way. And in those moments as you push through and as you grow, oftentimes it is uncomfortable, right? Trying something new, especially when you get comfortable doing something and you're good at what you do, to get a curve ball that really impacts or disrupts your life. to be able to look back and see the silver lining? What are the benefits here? How can I grow from it? What lessons can I learn? And then moving forward with that, that way when you reflect back and oftentimes see how far you've really come, you have joy in the moment and you can look back and appreciate how strong you really are. Yeah, I think I laugh because sometimes I don't appreciate the joy in the moment. In the moment, it's like pure, I feel like I'm trudging through pure hell in that moment. But, you know, it's getting through it. Once again, it's kind of like you make the decision or you go in a direction, you make that choice, you go through with it. And it's afterwards when you've reflected back on it that you can kind of go, yeah, OK, now I can enjoy thinking about that journey. Now I've had that experience and I can look back on the experience with some perspective and enjoy. that I had gone through that journey, but oftentimes in the moment, boy. And I love that there's people who can enjoy, take thing comes up and they're up against a conflict and I'm gonna dig in and really enjoy fighting, battling through this. And I think those people are commendable. I am not one of them. I am one where it comes, it hits me and I. have to steel myself against it stop and try to think, how do I get through this? And I don't necessarily enjoy the process, but once I do get through it, do enjoy looking back on it and reflecting on it and then trying to learn from it and what could I have done better what did I do well? there any victories that went on along the way that I can sort of sit on the side and go, yeah, I got through that. you feel great and also opportunities you can share those stories with others so that others can learn from them too, right? And maybe you'll help make their journey easier, right? Or help them to be able to look back and reflect and learn some lessons from that, even though it's hard in the moment to be able to learn and move forward stronger because of it. one of the things that I try to bring to students to realize is that failure is a gift that is given to you so that you're able to become better. it's kids see. And they're at a place, developmentally, where if they don't And I look at it with like grades. have a very high functioning population at Carlemont. They are extremely good students. And I'm fortunate to be there. But at the same time, that brings along with, you've got a kid who's had A's all through middle school. And they're just this great student. They get to high school and suddenly having and curriculum that is challenging them. And they're now struggling and they've got a B plus. my God, their world is like crumbling around them because they're getting a B. having to refocus them and go, look, first of all, B is a good grade. But second of all, we learn through our failures. A's on everything all the way through, you're not growing and developing. It's the struggles that give you that growth. But kids are also, like I said, at a place where they can't necessarily see that and take perspective. And they see that that failure is going to be detrimental to their future and not getting into the college of their choice. it blows my mind at times. But then I have to step back and say, put yourself in their shoes. try to walk in every day and go, just remember what it felt like to be a 15 year old. And sometimes that's the best way of going about it because they can't do it on their own. They can't take that perspective yet because they don't have a life experience. Yes, that's it. It's having the ability to look back on all the myriad experiences that we've had in our lives. They don't have the benefit of having all of that. so being able to help share with them perspective is a gift that you have and they're grateful, rather they're lucky to have you. Thinking about the legacy, the impact that you obviously make on a daily basis with the youth. I call this the Hall of Heroes, If you were to go through a hall of statues, and there is a statue of Grant Steunenberg and on it there is an inscription that can share a piece of information or knowledge that someone can reflect on, what would you want it to say? You know, I can almost guarantee you I'm going to be laying in bed tonight and come up with a better answer than this. That's that's the way my mind typically works. I'd like to think that, you know. People. Reflect back on on their their memories of me and said, he did the best he could for us. That. That he had our best interest. always wanting for us to do the best for ourselves, to to act and be the best person that we could be. and so I think that's how I would like, you know, people to remember me when I, you know, they, when they will look back at some point, if they remember the interactions they have with me, look 97 % of the kids at Carlemont High School don't have anything to do with me. I tend to deal with the students who are in the bathroom, know, vaping it, you know, in between breaks they're the ones who, they're the ones who made poor choices. And, the thing about teenagers, they are the world's worst decision makers. just, it's hardwired. that, you know, when they look back, they can see that whatever whatever consequence they may have had to go through, type punishment, I guess, that they had to endure, that it was done with care, that it was done with trying to get them to learn something from their experience, to take that experience they had and apply it and become better for it. I always try to... I sort of have this, think metaphorically, and I always say like, look, the things you're doing now, getting in trouble right now, it's like a metaphorical stop sign. And think about it like you're going through life It's like you got this big station wagon and you're doing 90 miles an hour down the highway and you're doing all these things and you really shouldn't be going 90 miles an hour. But finally you get caught. And when you hit that thing and you hit the stop sign or you have to hit the brakes, all of that stuff comes. flying up to the front and now you got to deal with it. Now, so when you get in trouble, when I've catch a kid, you know, with whether there's marijuana or, you know, they're drunk and they've got, they've usually got all this other baggage and these things that they're bringing with them. And so all of that comes rushing to the forefront, and they got to now kind of, and that moment of getting into trouble is actually a gift. been forced to stop and now you have to sort through all of this and it's your choice from here moving forward which direction you wanna go with it. learn from it, you can continue doing the same things you were. So boy, that's a long answer for what do I want on my hall of fame plaque. Just he had our best interest at heart. How's that? I love that. I have to tell you, Grant, the image of that station wagon, everything flying forward, the way you described that, it painted that picture so vividly for me in my mind, and it makes absolute sense. I've never heard it described that way before, but I love it, and I am almost certain that I will use that and paraphrase that in the future. I didn't make it up. That's a nugget of wisdom from AA. also talk about once you've taken all those pieces, now you've got all that stuff you got to deal with. Let me go back real quick. I didn't mention a mentor, another mentor, a huge, huge mentor. can't believe I didn't talk about it. His name is Nick and he was my sponsor in AA. And he was someone who walked me through the steps of sobriety. He walked me through the 12 steps. of Alcoholics Anonymous. he helped me navigate through that. he explained to me, it's like, you're walking in with a toolbox in your hand and we're going to open up your toolbox. And most likely a lot of the tools you've got are just broken and these tools that really don't work any longer. And you open up that toolbox and there's a wrench, but you know what? That wrench has got a broken piece on it and it doesn't work anymore. So we're take that wrench, we're gonna throw it out. And look, we've got some pliers here and the handle is broken on them. We're gonna chuck those. but here's a screwdriver. But you know what? This screwdriver needs a little bit of fixing, but it can be, you know, chaired. And so what we're gonna do is we're gonna throw out all these old tools that don't work anymore and we're gonna start building and forging new tools and we're gonna put them back into your toolbox. And we're gonna start adding all of these different tools. And then, you know, when close that toolbox up, we take it into life with us, love the image of the toolbox because when he and I would sit down and talk and I would explain, hey, I had this situation occur to me today and then this, that, and then here's how I handled it. We talked, okay, we opened up the toolbox and I used one of the tools that you had helped me build and I applied it. And did it work? Did it not work? How could I have done a little bit better next time? you use all those new tools when you hit that, when you hit that stop sign, then you're doing 90 and all this stuff comes to the front. Now you've got to fix all those problems. You got to have the tools to do it. if you're trying to fix a problem with the wrong tool, you're either going to not be able to do it or you're going to fix it wrong. And it's going to, it's going to come back and bite you later. That would Alright, so Grant, what's next? What's the next quest? look forward to having some time in my future to just have fun. I look back on some of the happiest years that I had, even though I was still, you know, I was still drinking and partying way too much back in those days. But the days I was working as a ski coach where I went off, I told you I went off the grid for a few years and I just I was skiing. was working as a ski coach. But I was also working, it was called the race department at North Star where we put on races for different organizations. my job was just to go up and ski around. I had a drill in my hand. I was setting ski race courses and just doing that. That was like some of the best times of my life. So my next quest is getting to a place where I can get back up and be out on my skis every day in the winter. Maybe not every day, but ski in the winter time. I wanna, know, when everything thaws and the rivers start to flow, I wanna be out on the river fly fishing and, you know, and catching some awesome trout and releasing them back into the wild and enjoying that. then when the summer gets nice, I wanna be out on the golf course hitting balls. And like I said, it sounds very selfish. And like those are the things I really look forward to is playing. I've always liked to play. that was, I think probably one of the... One of the things that as a kid, when I said I wasn't always the greatest student, I was always because I was focused on playing more than I was focused on working and doing things. Well, now I feel like I put in a lot of the time and the work and the heart. I've learned how to work. I've learned how to work to do that. I also think I could see myself also going back to I miss coaching. So, you know, it all started what got me in education was coaching because I loved just that that one on one kind of, you know, physical thing where that kid got that aha moment. And you get to see it more in sports for me because it's, you know, when you're being very kinesthetic with your body. and something kind of finally works and you in that aha moment, it happens more frequently than it does in a classroom. You know, I was teaching English and I was teaching about prepositional phrases. The kids weren't like, yes, now I finally know how to use a preposition correctly. You know, it doesn't have the, it doesn't hit the same. but when you're, you know, you're coaching a kid on how to carve. a turn and you've worked on, know, getting the pressure in the front of your boot and your body is, you you got your hips driving down the hill and you're pushing outwards and you're bending the ski and you're getting that tip and they get it and they feel the snap of the ski come underneath them and they're just like, that was the coolest feeling in the world. You know, I miss that. So I would love to go back coaching again, know, whether it's with skiing, I could see myself, you know, wherever I hang my hat someday. going to the local high school, asking the coaches there, hey, do need an extra football coach? You know, I coached football for, know, 15 years. I miss coaching football. was great. And that was one of the things that was the hardest about going into administration was you really don't have the time to coach. And I've had coaches say, hey, do you want to come out after school and help? so many times I want to say yes, but I also want to say I really can't. Not because I'm not allowed to, but for me, one of those tenants that Coach Stockburger brought is that you're there every day. You are there every day. You don't take days off unless you're just really sick or something like that. so I don't want to give the message to the players that I'm there when I can be. It's like, you know, it's half measures. That's another part of AA that they're all about, you you're never going to find sobriety if you're given half measures. Well, I can do it this time, but not that time. It's all in. And so I have that mentality about about coaching as well, that I'm either all in and I'm gonna be there every single day and I'm gonna give you everything I've got of myself. So I could see sort of the next quest is going back to the beginning, going back to where it all started and hopefully being able continue to work with kids, but in a more fun capacity. where I'm able to just be a part of the sport and the game rather than the office. Yeah, I I love it. And I think that you're enjoying yourself, you're having fun with the journey and you're in service. Mm-hmm. I know I keep going back to recovery, but so much of what I do in my life has to do with what I learned in recovery. Very big in recovery is being of service to others. part of that is, first getting sober and you start going to meetings and they kind of grab you and put their arm around you and go, here, we're bringing you in. You know, we want you to be a part of this community. And guess what? you've got a new job, you're gonna be the guy that buys the cake once a month when it's people's birthdays and we celebrate birthdays, you've gotta bring the cake and you're gonna cut it up and you're gonna serve it and that's gonna be your service job. Or you're gonna be the coffee guy and your job is to make sure that coffee is hot and ready to go for every meeting. Or you might be the guy after the meetings, you're gonna clean up the cigarette butts around the smoking area and you're gonna be getting your fingers dirty and sorry that's gross but you're cleaning up. Or any number of things and they give you these little jobs. But you realize that want to do the job well, but it's about being of service to the community. but you then also get to the point in the 12 steps where you have someone who comes up to you eventually and says, hey, will you be my sponsor? Hey, can you you work with me? Can you show me? And that's hard. mean, it's like it's like asking someone out on a date, Justin, when you to go up to another person you really don't know all that well. And you're you're new in sobriety and you you're kind of unsure about things and to go up to someone and you've heard them talk in meetings and you've heard you like what they have to say. You like their approach to things to go up to them and go, hey, will you will you sponsor me? It's it's it's like asking, hey, you want to go out on a date? You know, it's it's awkward. It's weird. But then, but someone does ask you and you then get to be of service to them as well. And, and, you know, to walk them through the steps and, know, and hopefully it takes. I've, I've had a few sponsors. I've had more, I've had sponsors. I've had more sponsors that haven't made it, but I've got a few. I've got a couple that have, that have stuck with it and have long-term sobriety And I look at going into my job every day that I get to be of service to the kids that I get to share. what my experiences were, that I get to, when they get into trouble, I get to provide some of the knowledge that I've learned and bring that to them to try to help them. So I like to think that I'm getting to be of service still, necessarily by picking up cigarette butts in the parking lot, but more that I'm talking and working with kids and hoping that they're going to be able to take something along struggle in life. they have to make the choices, but perhaps the lessons that you teach them can change the trajectory or allow them to pivot faster to make better choices, recognize the mistakes that they make or the choices that they're making and to reevaluate them, you know, it's a win for me if, and the thing is you may never see it. You may never see any of the epiphanies that they have, but I can only hope that maybe there's a point they get to, it might be during high school, it might be after they're done with me, might be five years down the road where they, somehow it clicks back, yeah, I had that conversation with Mr. Stu and now I get it. You know, it's... Now I realize what he was talking about. They may not have understood it in the moment, but I've planted a seed that's there and you just put it in there and years down the road it might suddenly grow and they might realize that, they may not even associate it with me. just may, it may be somewhere in there. They just know that someone at some point told them this thing and it's a different way of going about it. So sometimes you just planting the seeds that go along and you never get to see them grow and that's, that's okay. But you know, you've things that's what I really want and I really desire from this podcast is that planting those seeds, inspiring somebody to do something that they perhaps had trepidation or fear or thought they couldn't whether I know or not, and there are many people that may listen to this that I will never know how it changed their life, but to know that that possibility exists, that to be able to share these stories They literally help somebody change their life. And who knows what positive thing may come from that and how they may help someone else and on and on. That feeling is exciting, it's empowering, and it helps me to overcome the fear that I have in putting myself out there and this podcast and creating literally what we're doing right now. So that resonates a lot with me. My friend, I've got two more things and we'll wrap it. One is going to be tools and weapons. So we've talked about some tools. In regards to tools and weapons, books, resources, things that you've read or listened to that may help some of our listeners, what would you suggest? OK, so I read all kinds of genres. But I will say one of my favorite authors of all time is Stephen King. I think his world building is just unbelievable. he has that thing that you never really get to experience in life when, if you've ever read Stephen King or There's someone who does something bad to someone else. And in that moment, just, like, you want something bad to happen. He is so much about like the, you're gonna get your karma. You're gonna get what's coming to you. And so you get to experience that in his writing, which is always kind of fun when there's a bad person who finally gets their comeuppance. get that pound of flesh is served up. Where in life, so many people, they've been done wrong by a person and they want to see that person suffer and twist out there in the wind. And that doesn't happen. You don't see it. That's not how the world really works. so Stephen King. He's got a way of taking some of the characters that are these things. He creates these just horrible, evil characters and they almost always at some point they get their due whole karmic shift with everything. So that's kind of nice. I don't know, I love all kinds of books. all right, my friends. So I've got one last question for you. And this is my favorite question to ask. You could be any mythical creature. What would it be and why? A mythical creature? Can it be a hero from mythology? Absolutely. The floor is yours, my friend. Whatever you choose. Well, so being an English teacher, former English teacher, I taught a lot of Greek mythology. I think one of my favorite heroes from Greek mythology was Theseus. And he's the guy who defeated the Minotaur. And what I loved about Theseus was as you're reading a lot of Greek mythology and you've got these demigods who are like Hercules who've been given these superhuman powers. Theseus was just a king. wasn't given any superpowers. I guess he'd be in a version of Batman. He didn't have any of the superpowers that the other superheroes do. Theseus was just super smart. I he went in and he defeated the Minotaur his brain. He went into the labyrinth that Daedalus had constructed. and made it through and killed the Minotaur and came out the hero. But one of the things I love is, you know, and it's all Greek and it's myth, of course, but he was the the person who who invented for lack of a better word, invented democracy. He felt that it was important for the people to to to to rule the kingdom. So what he was the king, but he did it with the the input from his subjects. And he wanted to rule with how they felt the country should be, it wasn't a country, but whatever territory kingdom that he had, that he wanted his people to be able to give their input and their feedback. And he ruled through their input. And so that's where the idea of democracy came from, was from Theseus. So I think he would be favorite character from Greek mythology for that. I love what you shared with Theseus and I love the fact that he was just a man, smart man, granted, but using that, using his brains over Braun. And also importantly, the teamwork aspect, like ultimately listening to the voices of the people that he was ruling in order to make sure that he achieved greatness for all, that everybody was able to come up together. I think that's so much about teamwork, so much about business. so much about relationships, right, is listening to each other growing together. So thank you for allowing us to hear such wonderful story and such wonderful lessons from you today. I'm very grateful for your time, Grant. Well, and like I said earlier, I wanted to thank you for inviting me to be on this. This has been a truly enjoyable experience. Well, hey, anytime someone asks me to talk about me, you know, I'm not much, but I'm all I think about. So getting a chance to just talk about me for, you know, almost two hours now that we've been, seems like we've been doing this. So yeah, no, it's been a truly enjoyable experience. And like I said, the work that you're doing now that I hadn't realized in the years that I got to know you that this was your passion. and that you're sort of your quest that you're on. And I think bringing that positive message and sharing positivity into the world is so huge. And I do have this sort belief that good energy we bring into the world will outweigh all of the negativity that we have in our world because there is a lot of negativity out there. It's easy to get sucked the negativity. It's easy to... go through life, look at all the rumors and the nasty things we say about each other, have bad feelings and whatever it might be. So to bring and put forth any positive energy into the world, I think is so important and it's not often thought about. And I think you bring about cognitively thinking about how am I going to bring positive energy into the world. So thank you for doing that and thank you for your work. Thank you, my friend. So shines a good deed in a weary world. My friends, thank you for joining us once again on our quest to inspire, educate, and empower you to turn your dreams into reality, one mindset shift at a time. See you next time.

People on this episode

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Justin Mills

Host
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Aaron Iler

Producer
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Grant Steunenberg

Guest