Dragon's Gold: The Magic of Mindset

Escaping the Grind: John Ottman on Pattern Recognition and Time Freedom

• Justin Mills • Season 1 • Episode 43

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Episode Summary:

For years, John Ottman worked 60–70 hour weeks, grinding just to keep the doors open on his San Francisco bar, Holy Water.

After 8 incredibly slow years, John had every reason to quit, but his belief, passion, and grit kept him pushing through the hard times, including the crushing financial stress of the pandemic shutdown. 

John shares his fascinating origin story, how he used the power of relationship and pattern recognition to gain ownership, and why he chose to stick through the difficulty until the patterns in his business changed. Today, he enjoys the "Dragon’s Gold" of time freedom and leveraging a high-caliber team.

Key Takeaways:

• How pattern recognition allowed John to secure a minority partnership and become an owner.

• Why John credits his ability to survive 8 slow years to pure grit and having "no other option" (the Burn the Boats mindset).

• The critical shift that allowed Holy Water to finally thrive after years of being in a "sleepy neighborhood".

• How finding allies in the industry during the 2020 shutdown helped him overcome his darkest moment.

• Why finding a high-caliber staff is the ultimate "Dragon’s Gold" for time freedom and flexibility.

What You'll Learn:

• How to utilize relationship power to create new ownership opportunities.

• Why tenacity and grit are non-negotiable for lasting success.

• The strategy John used to overcome his darkest financial moment during the shutdown by seeking connection.

• How a high-caliber staff becomes the ultimate mechanism for an owner to gain freedom.

Tools & Weapons:

• Pattern Recognition: Noticing themes in organizational structure to position yourself for opportunities.

• Burn the Boats Mindset: Going "all in" because quitting was not an option, fueling perseverance.

• The Power of Network: Viewing people as the biggest resource; relying on allies and experts to solve problems.

• Observant Learning: Picking up small, actionable "tricks" from tradesmen to save time and money (e.g., maintenance hacks).

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About Gold Dragon Investments:

At Gold Dragon Investments, our mission is to bring joy to others by helping them win the game of investing. Helping every client become the hero of their financial journey. We believe that wealth is a tool, but joy is the ultimate outcome.

Through meaningful partnerships, we strive to empower our investors to create freedom, and build lasting legacies of purpose, fulfillment, and wealth.

Join Us on the Adventure:

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome once again to another episode of Dragon's Gold, the magic of mindset. Today we have the pleasure of having John Ottman, owner and operator of Holy Water, a bar in Bernal Heights in San Francisco. Owning this for 12 years, his company is established and serves many residents of the peninsula. John, welcome to the show. Justin, thanks for having me. Absolutely, brother. It's pleasure. Well, as I like to do, let's dive in. Let's go to the origin story. Where did it all begin for John Ottman? You know, where do we begin? I would have to say getting my feet wet in the bar and restaurant industry somewhere mid-2000s. I've been asked this question before and it's kind of hazy and I've tried to figure it out but sometimes timelines are hard. But I started working in this restaurant in Sacramento. Maybe 2003, maybe 2004, it was this big pizza place downtown on J Street and I was... was working construction at the time. uh I can't remember if I was installing windows or in siding or just siding. And then, you know, it got so hot in Sacramento in the summer, just, you know, triple digits. I had the idea of maybe I'll go back to school for something. I mean, back to school, never graduated high school and that was pretty much it. And so I had this idea to do this like architecture and like structural design course that the city college offered. And it was I think it was mostly at the end of it you had like a drafting certificate and the idea is you could become a drafter and for whatever reason I thought that would be a fun job. going through the course, I was living downtown, I moved out on my own, had this little studio and I needed some extra money and so I was you know working five days a week, going to school maybe two, three nights and this place opened up and I applied for a bussing, a bussing position and I was the last person to be interviewed. The manager at the time Rick, he's like I'm gonna hire you on the spot. I was like okay great you know. It was the first time I'd ever applied for anything like this so I didn't really understand sometimes how it's hard to get into restaurants or bars. And he's like, do you know why? I'm like, I no idea. He's like, because all the busses I just hired are like 16, 17, 18. He's like, and you're going to school and you're working and you want to work here. So clearly you want to work. And I was like, great, because I do. So, you know, you had different zones you would work in and one of the zones, there was like a banquet area, there was the main floor and then there would be the bar area. And I was sort of like, busing in the bar in this other area and the bartenders liked me, maybe because I was older than the teenagers, but not far, I was probably 22, maybe 23. And I got to know those guys pretty well. I worked there for a year or two, maybe 18, 24 months, and I ended up moving to San Francisco. And in that transition, I asked one of the guys that I had worked with, this guy, Eric Castro, was like, hey, do you know anybody in San Francisco anywhere I should work? I need to have another part-time job. And he's like, yeah, let me call around. And so he links me up with this guy, H, who owns a bar. on 16th and Guerrero called Elixir. So I went and interviewed with H and, or maybe it was his manager at the time, made it way there like, yeah, you're hired. um And they hired me too. And that was, I moved to San Francisco in, I moved there July 1st, 2008. And I think I was scheduled to work a couple of days later. And the day I moved in here, I got a call and was like, hey, can you work tonight? And I was like, sure, you know. So I was hired to work the door and bar back. And that was kind of my intro into working in bars in San Francisco. That was kind of like the origin of everything. And then I stayed there for a while. Eric was part of a new project that the guys who were behind like Berman and Branch were doing called Rick House and he brought me over there and I started as a bar back over there. At this point I had sort of bartending in Elixir and just kind of moved up over there and had a great time like Rick House and both you know Elixir were huge foundations of learning for me both in different different aspects, know, you got to work with different people, older bartenders at Elixir, you know, skilled in different ways and younger, in some ways, crazier bartenders at Rick House, you know, so it's kind of where, you know, you, you, I don't know, you learn a lot and I'm at a lot of people over at that spot and that just kind of propelled me into other areas. uh the guy, a different bar group of guys who own a bar called uh Double Dutch and Bloodhound. They opened a spot called Churchill. And one of the guys I was working with over at Rick House left Rick House to go work at this bar, Churchill, because it was near his house. I think he was like on the opening staff. I can't remember why he left Rick House. uh maybe the long hours, maybe it kind of burned out, but he was literally like half a block from his house. And the bar was super busy and he's like, the money is great, you know, whatever. So at this point I was kind of managing this little bar that was transitioning for the Future Group guys, guys who own Brickhouse, Burbank Branch, Swig. It was like this little bar called, I think it was called like a 441 Club. And in the meantime, they're going to turn it into something else. And in that intermediary time, I was managing it. And I decided, oh, I'm going to leave this bar and go to work with Churchill. For one, it was also close to my house. And two, the two owners of the two main owners of this bar group, had a pattern. It happened twice. So I thought maybe it could happen a third time, where they would open a new bar but they would find a third partner to kind of run it at a minority owner and I thought well maybe I'll put myself in that position you know and so when I gave my notice um my friend and general manager was like yeah that's probably not gonna happen and I thought well you know I know it's not gonna happen here it's just you know so I put myself in that position and think maybe a year, year and a half went by and sure enough those two guys, they wanted to do another bar and they talked to the manager at the time, their managing partner at the time. uh Who do you think would be a good partner? And he threw my name in the hat and we had a conversation and uh that's kind of how that happened. But actually kind of funny before that, the same guy, Eric, he'd moved down to... San Diego to open up a bar called polite provisions and he had asked me like hey do you want to move down? Do you want to move down and like be my co-manager or something like that you know at this point it's 12 probably 13 years ago and I was like yeah I think yeah let's do it I could leave San Francisco like I'll follow you like you're cool dude you do a lot in the industry you're well known and you're gonna open a new spot I'm I'm down for a new adventure And then one of these owners had kind of stopped by on a Sunday night when I was working at the bar and he was just kind of checking in with me about life, what's going on, how I'm feeling, X, Y, and Z. And I told him, I'm thinking about maybe moving down to San Diego and doing this thing. He kind of pauses, he looks at me, he's like. I don't want to say too much because I can't really say too much without talking to my partner but just hold that thought. We kind of got something, your name kind of came up, can I talk to you in like a week? I was like sure. And then that's how that conversation started. Yeah, that's kind of the origin of getting... Yeah. is so cool. There's so much to pull apart on that that I want to touch on that I loved. um One of which that I think is starting at the bottom, right? Like you got in on the bus, like, so you're already doing something, right? You're getting paid, but you see the writing on the wall or you feel the heat of the sun, like the burn, right? Like uh triple digit degrees working outside in the sun in Sacramento. I don't blame you for not wanting to do that, but seeing that you need a change when you want something different. getting into the restaurant industry and starting at the bottom as a buster, right? The cool thing about that is when you start at the bottom, you know how everything works on the way up and you learn, right? And between that and just the progression of what you were able to learn, the people that you were connected with, ah the fact that you, when going to the sit, uh getting a job literally on the spot because you've because of what you've already done, showing your hustle, showing the grind, the commitment, the dedication that you've already proven that you can follow through with at a younger age, like, unfortunately, incredibly rare. And so for someone to see that and take that on, especially in the restaurant industry, where it has a high turnover rate, right? Like that's a, that's a big deal. Then moving quickly past that to be able to then go to San Francisco and ultimately Open those doors because of the power of relationship, because of the people that you met in the way, right? So your hustle and grind gets you in the door. Your power of relationship, being a good person, connecting with people, interacting, making those connections, open up these other doors and opportunities down the line. And all of those just continue to snowball into greater and greater things. But it didn't happen just on its own. It happened because you had a intention or vision, you saw that you wanted something more. You were hungry. You did keep pushing. You did keep learning. You learned from other people. You got skills acquired that people that have been in the industry for years, you learn from each of them and you take the best of each piece and then make it your own. Right. To be able to go through all of those things, learning from doing, and then having fun during the process, having fun with that evolution, like that in and of itself, that's that's a gift. to be able to have that journey and enjoy the journey, super powerful. Yeah, you're right. I want to one other note too. And I love the idea that you saw about pattern recognition. Like no one told you that, but you saw a theme. You're like, all right, well, these guys did this once, twice, and now it's hypothetically possible they're going to do it thrice. And I mean, the, uh, the idea of seeing that and setting yourself up in a position to walk through the door when it opened, right? Like, uh, that, that I think is key. in any entrepreneur, anyone who's hungry and wants something more, right? It doesn't just happen. You got to put yourself where the opportunities are. And then when they, when they arise, you got to strike, you got to seize them. And I just think that, that what you just went through in that X, that, that origin story is incredibly powerful and, and, uh, one that resonates. And I thank you for sharing it. Yeah, of course. So obviously it's never easy, right? Along the way we have trials and tribulations, moments that knock us down and we have to get back up from, things that are hard or hurdles to overcome. What are some of the trials and tribulations that you found on the way to and in running your business? You know? I think... um For Holy Water in the beginning, Bernal Ice was a pretty sleepy neighborhood. ah And I think... It was just getting people through the door was the hardest part. The other two bars that my two partners had opened, Bloodhound and Churchill, they kind of opened up and they were just gangbusters right out the door, just busy, packed. Bloodhound had opened up on Folsom Street, a lot of tech startups, a lot of tech parties. It was just busy. And same thing with Churchill. Churchill was just so busy. and we opened up Holy Water and it was so slow. And I'm just kind of scratching my head like, well, I don't know what's going on. We've got a great staff, and kind of you mentioned about connections. Like, you know, at this point, you know, this is 2013. I moved here in 2008. had... I it was only five years, but it felt like a very long time. I worked not a ton of bars, probably maybe five, maybe six tops with some restaurants. And so I had a lot of people, so I had a great staff. I was able to pull from that, all those connections and have a great staff. But there's just not a lot of foot traffic. It was almost as if people thought Bernal was too far to go to. I would have friends who were working at Laszlo. I'm like come up and see me and they're like, I'm not gonna, it's too far. It's like, it like a seven minute cab ride, you know? And I think that has largely changed now. I don't wanna get off track, but like, you know, it's largely changed. People are much more willing to travel um where before it didn't, but that would probably be the biggest thing. um And I didn't know how to... You know, um I didn't really do anything to get people through the door. tried. I I tried... You know what it is? I really delved deep into getting beer, which was something that I didn't know a ton about. had worked... I was exposed to some cool craft beer working at Churchill. The owner there, Anthony, was into it. but mostly working in cocktail bars, you're not. It's just like cocktails and usually cheap light beer and that's all you care about. I just started, I would get on the internet and look up like best IPA in California and it was like Alpine. At that point, Alpine wasn't really distributing and they're like, nope, sorry. I would look at like best sour beer and something like Cantian would come up and I tried to reach out and they're like, nope. And I just started buying all this beer and it got people through the door, but not enough to really pay the bills. But what that ended up doing is giving us a stronghold in the beer community, but still nothing compared to the other bars. Honestly, I just kind of waited the storm, is really what I did. We didn't start picking up until like 2000. 18, 19, you know, then pandemic hit and we survived that. And then something happened during the transition of the shutdown and the reopening of everything. There was more people in Burl Heights. People seem to want to travel more. think people's patterns were disrupted and we just found ourselves with more people coming to the bar. ah You know, I want to say, you know, maybe because we were open. during some of that time doing to go stuff and maybe it exposed us to people who are typically, you know, going down the street to Rock Bar, going down the street to, you know, know, World Cuckoo, I don't know. And then since we were doing stuff to go, maybe we just kind of changed their pattern. Maybe it was just a bunch of, you know, think also a lot of the older people living in Bertel moved out, young families. think, I think I just kind of grinded through. I don't think anything I specifically did. differently because I was always trying to have a great staff, a great product, great environment. It was kind of, you know... The Field of Dreams build it and they will come but they just didn't happen to come for about seven years, know eight years so John, thing that I love most about that was that you just kept grinding, right? And eight years, like to get that foothold, make it steady, and as an owner and operator, being the person that has to pay the payroll, keep everybody fed, like making sure that that the doors stay open and that the lease is paid, like buying the product, all of the things that you have to juggle as an owner. And to do that when you're not getting enough people for the door and you're barely scraping by. The only way I believe that you can do that is through belief, passion and grit, right? The biggest piece in that is just being able to stick through it. And then when these patterns disrupt, when things change as in in everything, right? The one inevitable thing in life is change. And over time, these things will come. And frankly, in the age that we live in now, change is happening more and more frequently at a greater rate and pace ah than I believe ever before. And so to see where this evolution goes is going to be incredible. But I'm so glad to hear that that there was a change for you and that people did start flowing through or flocking through and And I think one last part I want to make on that is, that the idea of the grit and the perseverance and pushing through part of that was that you, never stopped. You kept getting your name out there by having a great staff and having a good location and making sure that you have a good product by putting and controlling everything that you could control. By virtue of that, the reputation begins to spread. The word of mouth begins to go. People start to invite their friends down to your bar. Right. And then, and suddenly this evolution and growth that occurs over time that only could have occurred in that fashion exists. And, and I think that that tenacity that you displayed in sticking through, um, is an, it's an incredible piece of inspiration and I'm really glad it came up in this podcast. Thank you. Yeah. I mean it was my only option to be honest. I know like that that's that what you just said, John, that's amazing. That's it, right? Burn the boats like you went in like you went all in on you, right? You had to make this happen. um Like the cost associated like there was no other option. It's like if I if you quit, how much are you going to lose? And oftentimes, sometimes it's how we feel inside. Yeah, there's the monetary loss too. But you don't want to look back and say, man, I quit. what could I have done? Right. And and you stuck through it. And I think that that's incredibly powerful. wonderful job. I want to ask, when we go along these journeys, John, it's never alone. You've cited a few people, but I just want to ask along the way, the fellowship, the allies that support us and go along with us, or the mentors that bring us up, or the people that we bring with us, may I ask who are the people in your fellowship? You um know, it changes from sometimes year to year, decade to decade, week to week, My partner Elizabeth was, we've been together since like 2015. She's been a huge help. You know, she's always believed in me and always been an ear when we're going through things. I'm, you know, talking your ear off about work stress or whatever. You know, one of my best friends, Buddy lives in Sacramento. You know, I talk to him weekly. Don't see him as much as I'd like, but you know, I've known him since elementary school. And so... He's another person that I would kind of. blabber to about whatever is going on. And you know just a couple different people close to me. um They were in the industry. whether I'm looking for inspiration in art or in menus, you know, there's this guy, Sean Scott, that I've used a lot for different design work. different connections I made, know, kind of back up into like the beer thing. You know, I made a huge connection with this guy, Scott Blair, who was in San Diego. He owned a spot called Hamilton's. He connected me with a lot of people in San Diego that ultimately led to connecting to breweries out here. And then, you know, would say the staff, No, that's it. Like whether it's one, three, five, five hundred at the end of the day, it's just I love the fact that you're just talking about people that have gone along that way with you and that and sometimes people become fast friends that you never would have otherwise expected. Right. To recognize that your your client will suddenly become your friend through time. I personally recognize and appreciate that that is absolutely reality. And some of the best friends I've made have been through unexpected encounters. but being open to creating that relationship, right? Being able to add value to other people and then being able to sometimes just have an ear, right? Like I love how you say like just having a friend that you can kind of blab to like, and just, need to get this off because venting is so relevant, right? If keep it inside, like you need to share that in some, there has to be an outlet in some fashion, whatever that might be. Preferably it's one that's constructive or helps. uh But you know, everyone's got their, everyone's got their, their, their way to, um to decompress and having friends is an incredible part of that. I I want to ask about the darkest hour. Is there a moment where something occurred or a life moment existed that you felt you were gonna throw in the towel if you were gonna give it up or close the doors? Is there a moment like that and how did you overcome it? I don't think there was ever, I mean, I think of two things right away, like, does he mean throwing the towel on the business or on my own life? You know? uh I would say no to both of those. I never thought about throwing the towel on my own life and never the business. But when the shutdown happened in April, I definitely had a huge amount of stress. And it felt very, world coming down, because it was just like, oh my goodness, what am I going to do? What am going to do? What do we need for income? And I definitely kind of had like a panic moment of internal Shut down for a couple days, maybe in a couple weeks, maybe longer. It's hard to remember. At that point now it's over five years ago, but you know, I was thinking, man, the bar is finally getting busy and finally going to start paying off this loan, finally going to start making money because you know, lot of this prior to this, like the bar was so slow that any of the, you know, I had a small salary just to barely get me by, but any of the owner draws that we would do, I would have to spend that. to live on, which meant I wasn't paying taxes on it, which meant my taxes to the IRS in California were just always building and building and building. And I'm thinking, are we going have to close this business and then I'm going to be, like for what? For negative money, tax money I owe, where are we going to live? All those stresses that I think that probably I was definitely not alone in. Millions of people were going through the same thing. You know, that was stressful. That was probably the darkest moment. And then, you know, I think maybe my drinking as well. I stopped drinking, I'm going to say recreationally, December of 2023. And what I mean by that is like I try stuff at work, you know, because it's part of the job. I try all the spirits, try all the cocktails, try all the wine, taste two things, do tastings. So I try stuff, but I haven't had anything to drink like. I'm gonna have a beer, I'm gonna have a cocktail and a glass of wine. I haven't done any of that, you know, almost two years and I just got really drunk one night. It was just like kind of made a fool of myself, which I actually didn't even remember. I just remember waking up really hungover and my son in the next room and just thought, you know, you slob. Not like physically, but just like mentally. Just kind of just, I was, and that was it. But you know, for probably 10 years I've been saying I need to... I need to stop drinking. I should probably stop. It's probably a good idea if I stop drinking. So I think... I don't know that felt like the darkest, really dark moment, but it felt like a moment of enlightenment, you know, so perhaps you can't have enlightenment without the darkness. I don't know, those are kind of two-hand-in-hand kind of dark moments. I can definitely think the shutdown being more consciously like freaking out than the hangover. How do you feel that you overcame those moments? What did you do to come out of that dark time? Um, you know. In the spring and summer of 2020, I went on a lot of walks. Actually, I did a lot of hikes in Pacifica almost every day to try to like... help with some sanity. um There's a uh couple that I'm really good friends with and we would go on walks together. And then the few friends and people that I saw during those times really helped. I think while we were told to kind of isolate and be indoors and not go outside. I think that just kind of made things worse. while I mostly, you know, listened to what we were told by the government, like we would definitely go out and go on walks and get out because it was too hard to be inside feeling cooped up just like, you know, you know, talk to friends that also had bars or restaurants that were also shut down. And what are you guys doing to stay in business? What's, what's your plan? You know, um, kind of commiserate with people who are in this, you know, in, the same situation. I think that there's so much value in that, in all of what you've said, frankly, John, but that idea about finding people that are in a similar situation that are overcoming it, sometimes just being able to have someone who understands the pain that you're going through, right? Because you can have that conversation, oh, woe is me, my business can't make the payments, like darn. Right. But someone who doesn't own their own company and doesn't know, they, they only see the outside. Right. So often we talk about the iceberg analogy. People see all the success, but they don't all the blood, sweat, tears, and pain that has come into it to create that foundation. Right. So when you go and say, darn, you know, COVID had to close, close the doors on my business. You're like, people don't get that. When you can have a conversation with people who are also in that same boat that know genuinely your pain and feel it themselves, like and then be able to share ideas amongst them. Ultimately, one, you may learn something that helps to change the course and help you reopen or to become better when the doors reopen. But also you have the ability to give value and share your insightful ideas with other people. And you could personally make a huge difference in their life, right? And maybe not even know it at the time, but just by being there, being open to communicate and sharing that. You could have been a catalyst of change for someone in a good way. And that's incredibly powerful. John, want ask dragons gold uh moments, whether it be uh accolades or things you've acquired, whether material or if a mindset, something that you've come across in your travels and over time, what would you consider to be dragon told on your journey? I think. Yeah, I just, you know, despite what I think probably most people would think like, you own a bar, you own a restaurant, you're, you're, you know, you're like Scrooge McDuck swimming in gold coins. ah For me, it has not been the case. Yeah, there's some bars out there that are, you know, just printing money, but it's also really expensive to, to do all this in San Francisco. And so, well, you know, I would say the last four or five years, it been more monetarily uh beneficial than the previous, but what it has always allowed me to do is have flexibility. with my schedule um now more so than ever but also with that flexibility comes you know responsibility because it's like you know people like well you're just the owner you could just take off like well who's gonna do all this work if I just take off and go do this so while you're kind of tethered if you want to try to be you know a good operator you're kind of tethered to the bar or your business um hopefully someday you can get to a spot where you do have flexibility and you know I'm at that spot now where I can, I like the joke that I have like bankers hours. I kind of go in at eight, I'm kind of out of there by three, maybe sooner, um where I used to try to really grind hard and get everything done. Things are kind of in place now where I can kind of, I don't want to say do a little bit, but I can kind of spread out some responsibilities throughout my week. Sometimes that means I go in every single day. Usually on the weekend, it's minimal, maybe two hours, but you know, there is that. I could be in there every day. um Maybe some days are four hours, maybe some days are six, maybe eight. And I try to not work too hard, which sounds crazy to say, but coming from, you know, at one point I was only two bars and I was managing a third bar. You know, um somewhere in there I was a partner in this little cafe, road house up near in Colterville, you know, driving there. every two weeks. I had a lot of things going on at one point in my life that was, you know, it was a lot of work. So now I'm sometimes feel guilty, but I'm like, I've already done the many, many 60, 65, 70 hour work weeks for years. if I don't have to be at the bar every second, I don't, I come home and I'm in the backyard in the garden and because I know there'll be times when it's just a huge workload. It's like, the freezer is going to break and then the walk-in is going to break and then this is going to happen and this light bulb fixture is going to go out then all of, because things just, you know, the phrase of when it rains, it pours is, it's not just made up for no reason. It's just the reality of things and you know, um and sometimes there'll be those times where it's like, I got to meet this person at 6 a.m. You got to be there all day. And um so for me, the biggest thing is Yeah, I'm making a little bit more money, which is like finally starting to catch up with taxes, you know, and I might be able to get current on my taxes, you know, in like two years, which is not that I was just so negligent. It was just the bar was slow and I needed a lot of money, but going to catch up and I've got more flexibility to be with my son, you know, um he's he's four. probably go to school next year and, you know, probably see him less. But right now, those are the. the dragon's gold, ah if you will. I love it. I love it, John. And gold it is. To be able to put in that much time, effort and energy. To be able to create something that can sustain itself still with your input, but with not as much of your time. Right? To be able to set up systems that exist and have now all the groundwork and all the work that you've laid coming to fruition, having the right team members on that you can delegate tasks to. Right? And then at the end of it all, to be able to have some freedom of time. to be able to spend in the things that matter, like your family, being able to, because those years do go quick. My daughter's in her second year of college and you know, all summer she was here at home and I think I saw her like five times cause she's just in and out, you know, living her life, which is great. But those moments, they come quick, right? And right now uh in that moment with your son being four, like the comment that the days are long, but the years are short comes to my mind. And so capturing that time and like praying for them is such a powerful gift. And it's not one that came easy. You earned it. Right. That's the difference. You never asked for a handout. You worked your tail off to get to it. And now you're enjoying some of the fruits of that labor. Right. Yeah, and I just do want to add just to make this point is that I'm extremely lucky to have the staff that I have right now. They're all fantastic bartenders. A lot of them have managed bars or restaurants already. And so it's like, I don't feel the need. Like they don't need me there for service. They'd probably like to see me more uh just to see me, but I see most of them throughout the week. But It's all them. They have such a caliber of skill that I don't even worry about what's going on during the bar during service because I know those guys will handle it. Now if I had a different staff, maybe less skilled, then my workload would be very different. I would definitely probably have to be there making sure things are going smoothly, making sure they're handling guests correctly, drinks are right um operationally, but I attribute a lot of that. not just the systems but the staff that I have that have, you know, they kick ass and um I'm very fortunate for them. No, I love that. I love that. It's the people that make it in so many things, right? Systems are important, but there's no substitute for just the organic experience of relationship and people, right? And when you find the right people that you mesh well with and that treat your clients well, like that's a gift. those are people you want to hang on to without question. So John. The Hall of Heroes. ah This is about a torture legacy to pass. If there was a massive statue of John Ottman and they had a plaque on it that could say anything that you want to future generations, what would it say? I have no idea Justin, I have no idea what this, it feels like writing your own obituary, know? It's so hard to... oh it interesting? Yeah, when you put it in that perspective and you think about this, you're like, that's, that's kind of a big deal, right? And the cool thing is that it can say anything, right? To be continued. Like, I mean, like, whatever it might be, like, I've, I've, I've, no, like, again, like I said, brother, there's no right or wrong answer, right? This is just your story. If, if you could think of, and you knew that one of your one of your grandchildren was to look at this, like your son's son's son or daughter. The point, if you were to know that you were saying this to one of your future generations that never had the chance or opportunity to meet you, what advice would you give them or what would you say to them in that moment to try and help them in their life? Yeah, I want to say that's an easier thing to answer for me. know, kind of what we said earlier, I would say, I don't know, I would need someone to probably correct the sequencing of words, but something to the effect of like, you know, keep pushing through, keep grinding, just keep looking forward. And as cliche as that sounds, you know, and kind of like out use as like, Overuse that it is that it is like I could picture that on like written on a piece of like driftwood You know that sold it like a craft store, but uh for me. It's it's just never been truer words to you know there's there's a lot in the world to distract us and um When you find those important things, I think it's So question? Yeah, what's the next question for John Ottman and for Holywater? Or your next bar? You know, I get that a lot. Actually, a lot, a lot. People are always like, you opening another bar? you're doing something else? Recently, I don't know if you've heard, like, em there's a legendary beer bar in San Francisco called Toronado and it was put up for sale. And I had probably no less than 10 people ask me, are you gonna buy Toronado? I'm like, no. I don't have any plans to buy anything. I was actually, then I was... recently asked just last week the same question I was like you know I guess I would if the conditions were right it would probably be be somewhere in the peninsula probably wouldn't do it in San Francisco there would have to be more outside space and inside space and it would have to be a spot that was going to be sunny and I would have to be not the person that's running it you know if it was like if I was a If I wasn't the point person, you know, I, like I said before, I've ran multiple wars at the same time and it's, it's, there's a lot of variables. You could have staff from both spots call out stick on the same day. You could have refrigerators go down in the same day and if they're just one of you, it makes you want to pull out, you know, your hair or what hair you have left. but you know, business aside, what's I think, um, just trying to be a good father. to my son is probably the biggest thing for me. had a I some interesting father figures in my life, so I didn't have the greatest example. So I'm still learning myself on how to be a father and how to have patience and not kind of flip my lid when he's not listening, because he's four and he doesn't listen, know, reminding myself, don't get mad at a four year old. Like that's so disappointing for yourself to even be triggered by a little child. They have so much power in that little body, right? mean, unless some people just have immense amount of patience, they can do that. I'm just not built that way. um So it takes effort, which is so embarrassing to say. So um yeah, just. honest and I'm sure, John, you're not alone in that. I respect it. I look back and think about all my kids tried my patience, but my boy, he knew how to push those buttons. uh so I guess what I say is I understand where you come from and it's really awesome that you even are conscious of and thoughtful of trying to make sure that you're the best father that you can be for your son. And to realize that Yeah, you are human and you will react, but to consider and just at least recognize the idea that he is for and you're going to do your best to lead him in the right way, but to give him some grace or some space to grow and evolve in his own life because he's on his own journey. Right. Powerful. about when I lose my cool and I yell at him and then he just looks so sad. I'm just like, I feel crushed by that because you know, I think about when my stepdad would yell at us as kids and how horrible that was. And I just think, man, I don't want him to have these memories of me. Like I don't want him to think of, yeah, my dad would yell at me for things, you know? And in my mind I'm like, my stepdad would yell at me for much less, but it's like, it doesn't matter. Like, I don't have any business. yelling at my kid because he won't stop throwing dirt or whatever it is, you know what mean? it's all, it's, yeah, just I've been trying to have, I do have that realization and I see it and I'm just like, dude, this is not what you want to be remembered as, you know? That's awesome when you think about it. And it's ultimately going to make a massive difference to your son as he grows, right? Because you will catch yourself in some moments. We're human, mistakes are made, but you're going to do your best. You're going to make less of them because you're conscious of it and you're going to correct issues. Because as they occur, you'll acknowledge it and then you'll communicate, right? that talking it out, communication is so key, right? With business partners, with family members, uh with just people that you meet. in your travels, right? You go into another someone else's business, right? Treating people with kindness and being thoughtful about how your words impact and how your actions impact. That's an elevation that I feel more people could stand to realize. So John, we talk about tools and weapons, things that have helped you along your way. Are there any things that, any resources, any books, anything that you've encountered that has helped you in your journey? Resources, tools or books? I think my biggest resource has been the people around me. I've been really fortunate to meet... A lot of people who were in management positions, were owned their own business, bars, restaurants, or just other things, know, maybe, you know, auto repair shops or bakeries or, you know, uh butcher shops, you know, and then people obviously who are just working the grind uh aren't owning any businesses. uh I think that I've... I've had a really good skill set of. I mean, seeing who can help me and not so much in a selfish way like, ooh, what can I get out of this person? realizing how this person has an expertise in this area. They're good with this, they're good with this. and asking questions of them. Like, what would you do in this situation? Like, I'm stuck with this, or I've got this going on, or... ah How do I integrate all this Google Doc stuff? Or whatever area it is that I don't quite grasp. feel that I've been really lucky to somehow have almost got somebody that I can reach out to for, you know. for almost anything. We had a pipe burst in the bar a couple years ago and I was like, I got a guy, I got a great plumber. And it just so happened that the plumber's concrete guy that he would use was the guy who did the concrete for our bar. So was like, we had this connection there with Angel already. um that has been extremely helpful in a business where things are just kind of constantly breaking. I'm gonna be laughed, but I get it, right? Yeah. yeah, I think. think it's important to be open to meeting people, making connections with people because you have no idea how far that's going to go. They may connect you to somebody else. And when you have this big network around you, it's... It makes life easier than just being alone. yeah, because you got something to laugh with. You're not just by yourself like crying. Yeah. um experiences. I completely agree, brother. I think the idea of that relationship, what a powerful resource that is. And then, but I think the big part of that too, is what you said in regards to asking questions. Yes, you can create the connections and the relationships and the people who have it, but then you have to inquire. Some people will volunteer information whether you want it or not, but there are a lot of times where you won't get the answer unless you ask the right questions, right? The quality of your questions will determine the quality of your answers in many cases. And I think that's a powerful point. you know, I'm focusing more like on issues that if you know what I mean is just trying to fix things yourself or resolve issues yourself. And then if you do do that, then you have that skill set. You're like, I just realized that I can do this, this trick. You know, I think, I think of when one time we had a condenser go out on one of our, um, we can, when they were reaching coolers and the tech came out and he showed me, like, sometimes these fans just kind of get stuck and you just spin them. You know, so I guess me being observant, just always kind of being nosy with all the tradesmen and all their techs. You just spin it, it'll kickstart and I was like, oh, that's a great idea. And then a year later we had our glycol unit, it wasn't really running. So I opened it up, I pulled out the condenser and I spin the fan and it just started going and I thought, damn, Dewan just saved me probably a couple hundred bucks. You know what I mean? And you know, that's. There's just so many things like that, so many little tricks you can pick up in life. My buddy Hector is a gardener and he's kind of like a handyman. during pandemic, I worked with him a little bit and see stuff that he does. I'm like, that's a smart thing to do. And you can just kind of incorporate it. think just exposing yourself to things that just being open. love that. John, so powerful. Thank you, man. All right, brother, I got one more question for you. And this is my favorite one to ask. If you could be any mythical creature, what would you be and why? mythical creature. Yeah, mean, mythical creature. uh We were talking like unicorns and dragons and hydras and things like of that sort. Yes, all of the above, yes, and there are a myriad of them. I'm sure whatever you want, there is something out there that exists related to it. You know? Or you can and for clarity, you can create it like it could be imaginary. It could be a John Ottman original right here, like on live on the Dragon's Gold podcast. Huh, you know, man, this is another question I thought about. was just like, mythical creature. mythical creature. uh I don't know, I think maybe, you know, keep thinking. So when was in high school we would play, we played a little bit of Dungeons and Dragons, my friends and I. And I ended up being this dwarf who became a shape-shifting dwarf. And it would come in handy, and it would come in handy because sometimes on these adventures, which we played Dungeons and Dragons very loose by the rules. We mostly just, my friend Jeremy would come up with quests and we would do them, and you know, we had. It was very loosely based on it, but my dwarf character had a shape-shifting arm that I would use as a sword or a hammer or whatever. um I don't know if a shape-shifting dwarf is really a mythical creature or not, but that's what I was once, I would say in the mid-90s, and his name was Gwar. So, yeah. That's awesome. I have a friend actually going to see a Guar in concert. think this weekend, he's had enough to go see him. And think Sacramento, funny enough. Yeah, that's super cool. before. ah Yeah, you know. Yeah, I don't know. Otherwise, I don't know, maybe a centaur. Those creatures look pretty cool. But maybe a centaur with wings so you could fly away. Awesome. love that. And that's a big part of why. I get that they're cool. All of that sounds cool. Having the ability to shape shift into anything that you need like that sounds pretty awesome. uh You could probably save a lot uh on different tools. Oh yeah, So uh my friend, uh one of the things I think about, like, and Centaur is awesome, and with wings, no less, and I think it's great. Why? What is it that you like about the Centaur that you think is cool? You can on Centaurs are the beasts like, uh, shoot I might even have the wrong creature. Is it the centaur, the, like... has like a horse legs and it's a human body? Or is it like uh a bull upper body? yeah, human body, yeah. Lower half is the horse, from the torso up is human, yeah. yeah. don't... Justin, I wish I could give you some really great reason behind that. But I don't know. I guess, you know, I recently listened to The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe with my son and maybe it just kinda, you know, popped up. I don't have a good answer for you, man. I'm so sorry. No, that's no brother. It's a good enough. No, there's no problem, brother, right? I think about like just the aspects of like majesty of power, right? Centaurs are very powerful creatures and wise. What's your creature? Oh, a dragon, gold dragon. Very specifically. Yeah, gold dragon. John gold dragons are the strongest of the true dragons and they go on missions for good. They want to help. And and my own personal mission, John, after years of boiling it back when I wrote it out originally, it was page long. And over the years, it shrank to a couple of paragraphs and do a paragraph and do a couple of sentences, then to one sentence. and then boil down to its most refined, it's to its essence, is my mission is to bring joy. That's it. My mission is to bring joy. And by doing that, I become so fulfilled. The more that I help other people, the more that I help people smile, I love. There is a beauty in a smile that is unparalleled. There is something so genuine about that when it comes about. and the feeling that comes about with that. when you can bring joy to somebody and make them feel good and happy. The beauty of that to me is that that continues to pay out that you feel good in our interaction. You go and see someone else and you treat them. kinder than you might have otherwise. You just do inherently because you're in a better mood. You feel better. You're nicer to other people and your interaction may then spread to someone else. I won't ever be there to see it when it happens, but knowing that that's even something that comes as a ripple of something that I could have started makes me feel wonderful. And John, I'll tell you, that is a massive reason for why I started this podcast is to inspire how and bring joy to others and maybe share a story just like yours that someone else feels inspired by and says, you know what? I can do this. And they keep pushing forward and maybe a moment that's a dark time for them. That's why. Wow, I mean that's very inspiring. I I mean, that's inspiring for me to hear. And yeah. You're the guest of my podcast. I wasn't supposed to be going in on that. I love that. oh there too, you know? I think that's good to hear. No, no, you're right. Episode 52, Episode 52 is my episode. That's coming out. This is gonna be episode 40. 43 I think when your yours releases will be episode 43 and episode 52 is mine. It's already been it's already set. So I'm waiting but yeah, I love it funny. Wow, that's cool. That's awesome. It's funny how things work out. Oh, I love it. Well, brother, thank you so much for taking the time today, John. I'm really grateful for you joining us today. Thank you. Hopefully it was, hopefully it was fun for you too. know, originally I wouldn't do something like this because I would feel uncomfortable just talking and sharing my story or just in fear of like saying something stupid or just making myself look stupid. But you know, and then I thought, you don't really. some of the best outcomes in life are by putting yourself in situations where you're uncomfortable. So that's largely why I did it. And I also thought, I'm not gonna have anything to contribute to Justin's podcast. I'm not gonna say anything that's gonna be groundbreaking or my story's not that inspiring. That was kind of my initial thought when you had first asked me and then I think when you came up again I thought... You know, that's just myself putting myself down and uh you know, that's just personal demons being like, yeah, you're not good enough. And so I thought, I'm just going to do it. that's, that's my only reason for not doing it. That's, that's not acceptable, you know? So I'm glad that you asked and you asked more than once. told you something. That's it. Right. Like don't let yourself defeat yourself. Right. Like if that's the worst reason I've got or the best reason I've got not good enough. Let's go. Right. And then and me like, yes, I. Right. The persistence, like the tenacity not giving up. Right. Like. If you want something, go for it. You can get it. And the door might shut in your face more than one time. You keep knocking, right? You keep knocking and you keep pushing through and that resilience, that tenacity, I think that that is such a key factor in success for so many people. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, thank you. My friends, thank you for joining us once again on our quest to inspire, educate, and empower you to turn your dreams into reality, one mindset shift at a time. We'll see you next time.

People on this episode

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Justin Mills

Host
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Aaron Iler

Producer
Contributor

John Ottman

Guest