The Responsibility of Democracy with Sharon McMahon

We are so excited to share Part 1 of our conversation with America's Government Teacher, Sharon McMahon (@sharonsaysso)! We loved the opportunity to ask Sharon about what "democracy" really means and what it requires of each of us. "If the government is the people, then the people are what we need to take care of...I try to not lose faith that what I do will matter." Tune in for her powerful thoughts. We can't wait for you to listen!

For more, join us on Instagram @letstalk_sis.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

We talk about race, diversity, human connection. It's complicated, but it is 100% worth the effort, and that is what we're all about.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Welcome to the Let's Talk Sis podcast. Welcome back to the Let's Talk Sis podcast. We are here in season two with a really exciting episode.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

We are sitting down and having a conversation with America's government teacher, Sharon McMahon. We are giddy. We are so excited. We're going to dive deep. We're gonna get a little bit of like government 101 and ask some more personal questions and just get to know her better. So come along and listen. Okay, so first of all, I do want to just talk a little bit about what we were talking about. That during times of distress, during especially right now, where things are so polarizing and it's just overwhelmed for our nervous systems. Every time we open our phone, we're just bombarded with something that it seems to, and you're sharing that historically this is something that we've seen. Yeah, um, that sometimes we start seeking things like, I don't know, celebrity gossip more or fun things that just seem so lighthearted and just I don't know, can distract us for a minute. Can you explain that of why we do it and how social media has impacted that need right now?

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Yeah, I mean, throughout history, when you've had times of like incredible turmoil and upheaval, this is when people go to the movies more. Like, for example, during World War II. Um, in some ways, the movie industry uh really boomed because people were just they needed a moment to not be worried about their loved one overseas. They needed a moment to not be rationing, you know, pantyhosts, you know, like they literally just needed a momentary break from their real lives. And that honestly is uh, you know, a deep part of the human psyche. Before we had movies, there were other things that people would do. They would, you know, gather, they would sing, they would gossip about the community, they would engage in if you were, especially if you were a woman, you would engage in some kind of handcrafts with your friends and neighbors, you'd watch each other's kids, like there's there's no shortage of ways in which humans will invent an opportunity for themselves to sort of check out of reality. Uh and that's really because our ability to maintain a sustained amount of attention on a difficult topic, it our our brains are not hardwired to just exist in a fight or flight mode indefinitely. Yes. We truly um it it it's not only can we not sustain it, if we try to sustain it, it is often very damaging to our mental health. Damaging to our mental and our physical health. So, I mean, it's really no surprise to me that people like me, and I'm sure lots of people watching this, you know, are finding a little extra delight in Bravo these days, right? Like finding a little extra delight in like he said what, you know, like there's definitely um the desire to sort of um observe somebody else's petty problems from afar. Yes. And to not be like, oh, she didn't go to her opening, like, oh, she opened that restaurant and so-and-so didn't go. You know, like that that feels like such an escape for us in this moment. And I will tell you one thing though, that uh research has shown that uh people who are highly intelligent and also high achieving people often enjoy watching reality TV, mindless TV, more than people.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

That is fascinating.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Because their brains are so active and they're so highly engaged in the world and they're so uh they're so they have so much ability to get things done that it feels like they need that uh that escape even more than say an average person. So uh I can't give you the exact percentages of like if you're a high achieving woman, you're 25% more likely to watch Bravo. I don't know those exact percentages.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

I mean, are you saying we're high achieving it? I'm just saying, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

I'm just saying, like, I don't I don't think of it as a um, you know, I I just view it as like this is part of my maintenance. Yes, okay. I need to maintain my own self. And this is one of one of the ways, not all of the ways, but one of the ways that I do it is by giving my mind a break.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

There's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

I would love to know because I think of you as being someone who is always in the heart and heavy. Like you are teaching us every day. I'm like, what is Sharon gonna say about this? And we actually recently had a social media meeting and we got to talk about our dream content. And literally, three of us on the meeting said Sharon's content. Because we're constantly learning, but when I take a step back and I think of what it requires of you every day to be giving us this, I'm curious, besides Bravo, what is your maintenance? Like, what is it that how are you keeping your nervous system and yourself grounded?

SPEAKER_03 5:28

Well, I mean, I live in the woods on a dirt road. I literally live in a little house in the big woods on a dirt road. You can't see my house from the street, I can't see any of my neighbors, and I have lots of flower gardens and I have dogs, and so I do live in a physical environment that I find very peaceful. And I know that not everybody wants to or can live in, you know, live on acreage in the woods. Um, but you know, I I only moved there a handful of years ago. Actually, I didn't, you know, before that I lived in big cities and you know, suburban neighborhoods. So uh honestly, sleeping with my window open and listening to the bird song and the spring peepers. Do you guys have speeper spring peepers in your own? I do not think I do. There's little teeny tree frogs. And yeah, and so if you ever listen to like a noise machine and it's like nighttime sounds and you hear like it almost sounds like a cricket chirping. Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. It uh those are they emerge in the springtime and they there's thousands of them and they make so much noise when the sun goes down. So I mean, I I really I know this is true, not just for me, but humans do need time to be connected to nature. Yes, yeah, they absolutely do. And whatever format that is for wherever somebody lives, uh, I don't view it as optional. I don't, I'm not saying everybody needs to move to the country, but everybody does need to spend some time outside. Like that, I believe that that environment will it's designed for us to help us sort of uh recenter ourselves, ground ourselves back in reality, um, uh be surrounded by what is real uh and not what our mind has is concocting for us in this moment. I how I think it helps us stop from sort of spinning out of control because again, our minds will take the ball, run with it. Yeah. A lot of times in a very unhealthy way. And so that's also part of it is just being in a physical environment that is grounding.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Oh, I love that. And this is what is interesting. I have found myself recently because I work in kind of this, I don't even know how to describe what we do at this point. Social, cultural, political space. Yes, and even with like we have full-time jobs, we do a lot of side things, and there are moments that I feel like I'm so deep in the work that I'm doing where we're trying so hard to communicate with people from different backgrounds, different beliefs, different political views. And I think also living in Utah, there's times where I just can really only see that reality. Yeah, and then when I step out of it, step into nature, even travel, I'm always so thankful for those moments where I was like, Okay, oh, wait, Americans, wait, we're doing good things, we love each other. It's not exactly how it feels on social media. And I feel like that is so important. And recently I attended a pro-democracy conference, and it was so interesting to be in a room where it wasn't like you're the good guys, you're the bad guys, or vice versa, but it's like, how do we work together and how do we find this? I mean, really center on this common ground of democracy, the constitution, things that everyone in that room could value. And I don't always feel that. No. And how can we create spaces in our everyday life where we can feel that we are on the same team?

SPEAKER_03 8:58

I that is such a an I it's it's such an important thing to think about because you know, your real life is not um is not um funneled through an algorithm. Yeah. And you know, if you're just at little at a little cafe eating a croissant, uh, and you're surrounded by people that you don't you don't know who they voted for. Yeah, no, like and but yeah, you could have a perfectly nice interaction with them, pet their dog, and be like, it's good good morning, it's great to see you. Um, that is uh an opportunity for us to sort of again recenter ourselves in our own communities. But the idea that um our lives are being lived online is I feel like so many people are really struggling with that right now, that our whole life is being lived online. I definitely struggle with it. This I'm not coming from a position of high horse when I'm talking about this topic. Um, because my job is online, much of my life is online. Yeah. And so I I do have, you know, uh this sort of perhaps a bit of a different perspective on that topic. But um I don't think that our brains and our nervous systems and our communities are hardwired to be filtered through the lens of a, you know, a billionaire designed algorithm that is intended to keep us angry and addicted so that we continue to engage with the content on the platform that they own. I don't know that that is in our best interest. Right. I think it's in somebody's best interest, but I don't know that it's ours. Right? And I look when we stop to understand that uh I I feel like it reframes everything that we're seeing online. Like I'm I'm actually being fed this content because um somebody wants me to feel angry, and they and as soon as I start feeling angry, I start getting these little hits of neurotransmitters that make me uh want to go back and see what else happened. Uh listen, I'm curious. Yeah, I'm curious. I've read some comment sections, you know, like I've seen some things. Uh and sometimes if it's if the comment sections are really going wrong for somebody that you also dislike. Do you know what I mean? Like it's very addictive to come back and watch them get roasted. It really is. Uh that that's just the how the human brain is wired, and it requires uh a relatively high amount of self-control to not engage in that kind of behavior. I'm not perfect in any way, and again, not preaching to people beneath me. I totally get it. Um, but I don't know that that that it's particularly good for us to live our lives in that fashion. Yeah. That's not how humans have uh developed society over time.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

It's it's not, and it's something this is a conversation, you know. We have kids, and I think we're trying to help our kids figure this out. And even my kids, well, my oldest, she does have social now, a teen account, but my other kids don't, and I'm still shocked with how much they see when they don't have it, just through friends, or people sharing it in messages, like just so many different things that I try to explain to them. I'm like, hey, yeah, like back when grandma was a little girl, people thought smoking was hot and sexy, and they didn't think it was bad for you. And then over time we learned, and there were all of these like guidelines and recommendations, and all these experts got together and helped us realize it was not hot, sexy, or healthy like maybe we thought. And I said, I believe the same thing will happen with social media, with the amount of time we spend there, how it affects our mental health, our physical health, and I feel it. And it's hard too when it is your job. It's part of your job to know what's going on, to socially listen, to understand like there's so much goodness that can come from it. Yeah, and I think that we can all speak to that.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

That's kind of the question I wanted to ask you, because you know, there's this very unhealthy layer to social media. We doom scroll, the dopamine hits, all of that. And then at the same time, it is a massive education platform. It is a something that connects us across the world. And so I'm curious what inspired you to step up and to speak out initially on your platform and to start being America's government teacher, essentially.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

Well, I mean, the bottom line, the short story is it was the pandemic. I was running a different business uh and had an opportunity uh to be what I I was in the same position that so many of us were in, which is that everybody is at home. Yeah. And we've already watched Tiger King. And we've already Do you remember Tiger King?

SPEAKER_00 13:42

You sure remember Tiger King, and people were making sourdough and all kinds of things.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

Just like we were all home, and we'd all come to the end of Netflix, and there's really we only want to watch so much television. And then I also had another layer on top of that, which was uh during the pandemic, my husband was very sick with stage five renal failure, and then he ended up getting a kidney transplant in August of 2020, which is really the height of the pandemic. Uh, this was before they developed vaccines or treatments for COVID, and uh COVID, the first initial strains of COVID were extremely hard on your kidneys, and so he already doesn't have functioning kidneys. Uh so we were especially isolated uh because we could not afford for him to get sick. His chances of getting of dying were roughly 30% if he got COVID, which was nobody would put their spouse in a car and be like, you have a one in three chance of dying on the way home. He would never be like, that's an okay risk.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

So even our kids who, you know, by most measures, uh most kids did just fine. What we couldn't afford to have happen was our for our kids to go uh get sick, even to be asymptomatic and to pass it on to my husband. So that was a very, very tremendously, you know, isolating um and challenging time, not just for me, but for everybody. So uh, you know, I had more time at home than I had ever had by no choice of my own. Uh and that's true of most of us. We were all sort of put into this position. And because I've always been busy and I've always been somebody who's accomplished things and you know, uh achieved things, I had never ever had the opportunity to just um be home and uh not be working like n I've had a job since I was 14 years old. Yeah, right, truly. Um, so I've never most of the time I've had two jobs, at least. You guys can relate to this. Like you have two jobs, three jobs if you count the children and the you know, yes. Yes. So I've never ever had that opportunity before. And we were coming into a very contentious election cycle. It doesn't matter who you voted for, we all agree that was crazy. Let's not do the 2020 election again. Um, like nobody was like, that was fun, repeat. You know, do you know what I mean? Like very contentious. So I started seeing some things on the internet that were just incorrect. Maybe you're familiar with some incorrect things on the internet. And you know, one of the things that I remember seeing was somebody who had a man who had commented on one of my friends' Facebook posts. Okay. And he was in her comments being very confidently wrong. Very confidently wrong about something that was not an opinion. It was about whether or not the Electoral College was a university you could graduate from. Okay, that's not an opinion. Yeah, that is it is just not a university that you can graduate from. Okay. There's no there's not even like an electoral college building. Okay, there's not even like an office. It doesn't exist. That doesn't exist. Uh it's a process that is gone through in all of the states, and each state has their own location. It's usually the state capitol. There's no like um board of governors of the electoral college, you know, like that doesn't exist. That's not a thing. Right. So um he was he was trying to say, like, you know, when people go to the electoral college building on the, you know, the day that the election is certified, and he was maintaining that this electoral college building was right by the White House. And I was like, I'm so fascinated. Yeah. But all of this is wrong. Yes, yeah. None of this is right. Um, I decided sort of in that moment that I could either reply back and be like, actually, uh, and like type a whole paragraph and you know, go get into all my examples and facts and figures. Um, or I could make a little video about how the Electoral College actually worked, and maybe somebody could leave the link to that video in the comments, and that video would sort of outlive the comment section of this one Facebook post.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Brilliant.

SPEAKER_03 18:03

So I did that, and I intentionally used little props like little teeny stuffed animals that are like this big, and I gave the candidates fake names. You know, it was like Susan and Jim or, you know, whatever. So it was not uh it was very I tried hard to depoliticize it. Yeah, to s because at the end of this sketch sketch, somebody needed to win so that I could show how it worked, right? Like how you accumulate enough electoral college votes. And I didn't want anybody to object to the content because I used the wrong illustration of like, oh, and then such and such one. And they would immediately discount whatever I had to say. Exactly. Oh, you're just biased against whatever. So um that was really the genesis of how I got started um posting educational content on the internet was I was home with a sick husband. He had had a uh kidney transplant six weeks prior. Um he's very still very sick after the transplant because you're on like 12 drugs. And it's just like a it's a very challenging process. So um then I just, you know, I every week I asked the people who followed me on social media, a small number of people, like, what do you want me to talk about next week? And I started making like one little video every week. And soon I started getting phone calls from uh radio and TV stations, local ones, uh, to just do a little brief segment about you know what to expect in the upcoming election. Yeah. Without without giving people, you know, uh my opinion about who should win, just describing the process. Um, and then you know, I I hate to say the rest, as they say, is history, but that's really how I got started doing this is at a time during the pandemic, people were posting wrong things on the internet, and I just started answering people's questions.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

And and clearly it was a need for more than people posting wrong things because half of us slept through our 11th grade US government class. Yes, and so then we turn 18 and we're like, we can vote, and that's about all we understand at that point. So this was so needed, and it's still so needed.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

And I feel like even having conversations with my kids, even between sisters, Shanti and I, I'm like, wait, did we miss that? Like, how did we and you do you have to go back and learn it? And I do think tying back to social media is it's making so many important things accessible to people that typically would not be able to go get a little refresher on a civics class, on a government, like just these things that you break down and make so simple. And I love how it started with an object lesson. I truly do, because we've also learned that Americans want simple, straightforward information. The more complicated it gets, I think, like we were describing before, we're overwhelmed. There's so many things that we're worried about, responsibilities that we have, stressors, that if you can give it to us in these little bits and pieces, it's so helpful. So I love that you break it down and you're continuing to break it down.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Okay, let's have a like a school moment here. Like, because we have our best teacher here. Yes. And I think there are a lot of words that we all say, just like we think we have this connected or unified understanding of certain words, and then we realize sometimes we're talking about different things. So I would love to talk about the word democracy for a second because I mean, you know, Alexis said pro democracy a little bit earlier, and I have tended to think, oh yeah, we're a democracy, everyone's for that, and then we have to pause and say, Do we all have the same definition of this? So could you give us maybe a simple everyday person definition of democracy?

SPEAKER_03 21:58

I mean, democracy comes From a Greek word that means rule by the people. That's what it means. That is the Greek root word of democracy. Sometimes people conflate the definition of um representative democracy and direct democracy or a constitutional republic, and they conflate these terms. But at its foundational understanding, a democracy is a government of the people. The power comes from the people and not from birthright, which is what we see in monarchy. It doesn't come from military conquest, as we see in other some other countries in the world. Power is bestowed upon leaders, whether they are elected representatives or they are presidents. Power is bestowed upon leaders from the people. So I always just go right back to the origin of the word itself and the origin of the concept of democracy, which is in ancient Greece, power, the power and rule of the people. Now, in the United States, we have decided to structure our democratic form of government in the form of a constitutional republic. A lot of you have probably heard people say, it's not a democracy, it's a republic. Absolutely. It's like saying it's not a dog, it's a golden retriever. You know, like that's what they're saying when they say that. Like a constitutional republic is a form of democracy. You can't have a constitutional republic that is not a democracy. There are ways to have democracies that aren't constitutional republics. Other countries have different structures of government, but at its core, it's the power from the people. So this constitutional republic that we have structured has representative democracy in which we elect leaders who represent our interests in uh in the in the legislative branch. And then, of course, we also elect a president through a rather convoluted process uh via the Electoral College who runs the executive branch. And you know, we can go into how the executive branch works, uh, you know, if that's if you really want to, but that's the that's the gist of it. Yeah, it is power that comes from the people. And there are some core principles of democracy that I keep coming back to that I really want to like just like tuck in people's hearts and like have them know these things. These are very foundational to the American system of democracy. Uh and these are things like the rule of law, that we are a nation of laws and not a nation of men, which is you know how the framers uh framers conceived of this, that we're not just going based on what one person says, we're following what the law says. And we make the laws, you know, by electing representatives that help make the laws on our behalf, right? Um so we're following what the law says and not just the whims of an individual. Yeah. So the rule of law is is part of it. Of course, separation of powers into different uh levels of government. We we've decided in the United States that we're gonna have national, state, and local levels of government. A lot of other democracies don't have that. They they have a far more centralized system than we do. They don't have these shared power structures that are, you know, uh that really vary state to state. Most European countries have a much more centralized central government, and then they have these little like, you know, uh councils that will help carry out what has been passed at the national level. They don't have an additional layer of state government the way that we do here. Um, but that doesn't make them not a democracy, right? They just structured their democracy a little different than ours. And then we also have a system of checks and balances in which each of the three coequal branches are meant to limit the power of the others. Those are those are things that are true of American democracy and you know, many other democracies have similar principles. But I those are things I really want people to be able to remember. There's these very basic principles of democracy that transcend any partisanship. These are things that people have agreed on in this country for hundreds of years coming up on the 250th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. These are not new ideas that I came up with, right? These are foundational to the to the who we are as an American, an imperfect, um, but always striving to be more perfect form of American government.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

So, what does being a democracy, what does that require of us as the people? That seems like a pretty big responsibility that it places on us.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

You know, democracy is, yeah, as some of the some of our uh founding fathers have said, the worst form of government. And yet no one has ever invented anything better. Yeah. Right? It's the it's the it's the it's the worst form of government, but it's the best one we have in that it requires effort from the citizens. Yeah. Uh if we want, if we want to set it and forget it, then we can just go ahead and have an authoritarian regime, right? Like we can just go ahead and get a king if we want to set it and forget it.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:17

Uh if we want to have power that comes from the people, we have to be willing to be the people that the power comes from. So of course everybody knows that oh, in a democracy you vote. Like everyone uh understands that. Unfortunately, too few people participate in that. Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

For a variety of reasons. Um, but there are actually many ways to be involved in a dep in the democratic process more than just voting for things. And I think sometimes people get overwhelmed by all of the, you know, many, many things that have to happen to make all of these levels of government work. And, you know, one of the things that I want to encourage people to sort of internalize is that nobody is supposed to be doing everything. Stop, you know, absolve yourself of that responsibility that it's your job to do everything.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

That overwhelm. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 28:08

Yes, it's not your job to do everything. And in fact, anybody who claims that it's their job to do everything, they want to be an authoritarian leader, right? Like that's that's the opposite of what we're talking about. You have an important uh skill set, you were given talents, you were given life experiences. Uh I believe that everybody was given things that they feel uh especially drawn to or especially passionate about, or they find themselves especially talented in. I believe those things were given to you for a reason, um, and that you are supposed to use those skills and talents, not just for yourself, uh, but for the betterment of your community. So when we're talking about a democratic form of government or how do you participate in democracy, um, that can be as simple as doing things to improve your own community. Because if the government is the people, then uh the people are what we need to take care of, right? And it it doesn't mean ignore all the things that are happening in Congress and pretend that's not happening. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying bury your head in the sand. But if if the government is of the people, we have to take care of the people. We have to take care of our community.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

I love that so much.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Well, and it's interesting because as you're sharing this, I'm thinking of myself very personally. And I'm thinking of oftentimes when it comes to voting, I take the responsibility in a way that is so important, it's so deep. I understand the women that fought for the right to vote, even black people in America not having that right to vote. And so there have been times, especially I remember when I had young babies, where I thought, this is like showing up unprepared for the most important test of my life. And I remember there was one election where I was just so overwhelmed. I didn't know I had family that had strong views on one side, other family members, strong views on the other side, and I just felt so emotional. You know, I was probably like pregnant or postpartum, but everything just felt so big and so important. And I remember my husband saying to me, like, well, maybe you just shouldn't vote then if this is creating so much. And I felt just like, no, but I have to, but this is so important. But I feel like right now it's hard to find places or community where you can even prepare together without it feeling like maybe you're up against it's us versus them or right and wrong, and I have family that views things this way, or family that views these things this way, and it feels so much harder to prepare now, and we have more information at our fingertips than ever before. And like you mentioned, sometimes it's not correct. Yes, so there's that also, and then I think the awareness of being like, okay, well, now I have to fact check and cite these sources, and now I need to look at this media bias chart, and then I need to check myself, and I feel like there are some of us that are so aware of the importance of it, and we have to do the best that we can with what we have in the stage of life that we're in. And I feel like the local um getting to know the people that are running it is through community, through showing up, getting involved in your kids' school, city meetings, gatherings, that's a big important way how we get to know people. And I just think our neighbors and getting curious and trying to understand all of these different perspectives, and then trying to figure out what we believe and how to use that privilege that we have of voting in the best way. It it does feel like so much, and I think that that is one of the biggest things that we're fighting right now is that overwhelm. And knowing that yes, we still have to whittle it down and take the best next step. And I love how you share examples in your book and in everything I've ever heard you say about these everyday Americans that take that best next step, and it is not that they know everything or they're experts at everything. And so, can you give us, I don't know, maybe a story or example of someone that took their best next step and didn't become paralyzed with overwhelm?

SPEAKER_03 32:32

I love that question because uh the overwhelm is so real, it truly is. Uh, it's so real. And I do think some people have personalities that um their their natural sort of inborn temperament makes them uh more easily able to compartmentalize things. Yes. Uh do you know what I'm talking about? Yes. And those are the people you want to be, like the first responders. Like, I don't need a first responder coming to my car accident who was like, oh no, and they just collapse on the ground. Right. Do you know what I mean? There's nothing I can do. Like, I want to be me. I should not be a first responder. I need somebody who is able to like look at the situ. I need the ER doctor to not be like, this is disgusting. Do you know what I mean? Somebody who can compartmentalize that and look at the situation objectively. And we also need people whose hearts are so full of compassion that they are easily overwhelmed by uh the injustices of the world. Like we need both of those kinds of people and all the people in between, right? So if somebody's feeling overwhelmed, it doesn't mean they're necessarily doing it wrong. They just need to learn to work with their own inborn temperament and their own gifts and their, you know, like there is this place for you, even if you feel easily overwhelmed.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

Uh so don't let that stop you. That's the first thing. Um, and the second thing is nearly everyone you admire from history. If you, you know, stop and think for a moment about like who's a person that I think is just really great. Could be somebody, you know, like Abraham Lincoln, it could be somebody Harriet Tubman, it could be, you know, any number of people, famous or not famous, could be your great grandma. Um, they have never felt the need to try to fix everything. That has that has never been part of their story. And we never look back at Harriet Tubman, for example, and be like, mmm, you know, but she didn't reform uh banking, you know.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

She didn't that is so true.

SPEAKER_03 34:32

You know, like she did not fix the railroad system, so not not not about it. You know, like we don't think that about people that we admire from history. Um, everybody in history has had an impact in the way that they uh, you know, where they were with the resources available to them, with the gifts that they were given, and we look back on them fondly for having done what they could in that realm. I'm very fond of Harriet Tubman. She's a character of mine that are a hero of mine from history that I I love to study, and I wish more was known about her, and I wish, you know, I wish she she'd be on my list of like people I want to have dinner with. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 35:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 35:17

Um and this is a woman who um uh suffered a traumatic brain injury as a child. She's a disabled American for the rest of her life. She was disabled and uh, you know, had what we know today as epilepsy, but they didn't uh they didn't have language for that at the time. She escapes enslavement. Uh, and we all know her for helping other people to escape enslavement. That's what she's most famous for, of course. Um, but one of the things that I really um admire about her is the her ability to um do what she could with the resources available to her. She knew how to walk through um you know cold, dark woods at night. She had learned how to navigate that land from her father, who was a who, you know, worked on the rivers. She'd learnt picked up these skills of reading the stars and understanding where the wind was blowing. By the way, nobody actually knows how she did it, right? It's it's kind of incredible. Like I had asked many historians who study Harriet Tubman professionally. Yes. How did she do it? How is she walking at night with no map in the winter, uh, with a bunch of scared people and like and like babies, and you know, how did she do it? Nobody knows. She doesn't know how she do it, how she did it, except she she Harriet Tubman believed um that she was partnering with God. That is how she viewed her role. Um, that, you know, um God needed her to do something and she needed God to do things. Yeah. You know, like she really viewed it as like a reciprocal arrangement here. Um so when I think about her, I certainly don't look at her and think, you know, I don't look at her shortcomings. And we tend to experience um our own lives through a series of shortcomings. We tend to look at the ways in which we are failing, we tend to look at the negative feelings that we're having. Human brains have a negativity bias, we remember negative things way more easily. Uh, we tend to berate ourselves and think of compare ourselves to all of the ways that we could be succeeding and are not. And um, one of the things I just really admire about her is her ability to just be unapologetically herself and to allow herself to be used. Uh, you know, her belief was that she was being used by God um uh to to do things for not just the people that she was serving, um, but she believed that what she was doing would have an important impact, um, perhaps in ways that she would never see. And if you look now, you know, I've done some pretty simple calculations, but uh she was able to to help rescue roughly 70 people from enslavement, right? Which is an incredible number.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:13

But if you think about the number of people uh alive today in the United States who are the descendants of those seventy people, it is tens of thousands of Americans today who maybe don't even realize that they were impacted by the work of Harriet Tubman. She had no way to know who she was gonna be impacting in the future. She had no way to know who these people would become after she helps guide them to freedom. Some of them I'm sure she kept in touch with, but this was a woman without access to literacy. She could only write letters that she would dictate to people and receive letters that people would read to her. Um, so she had to have faith that what she was doing would matter. And I think we have lost touch with that faith that what we are doing will matter. It will matter um in ways we will never know, and we have lost the ability to trust that that means something. And our forebears, the people who have come before us, and in whatever capacity you like to think about that, either you're related to them, you know, by blood, or you are they're just people who are Americans whose work you admire. Um they have always had faith that what they would do would matter to their descendants, whether, again, related by blood or not. If you look at even the language of the preamble to the constitution, it refers to securing the blessings of liberty to ourselves and to our posterity, to the people who come after us. So uh, you know, I I find it helpful in in difficult moments of which we, you know, of which there are many. I find it helpful to think about um, not about what can I get for myself, what can I do for myself in this moment, how can I, you know, um make things better today. And I try in an imperfect way to reframe thinking about it as um not losing faith that what I do will matter.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us today. That was part one of our conversation with Sharon, and please join us next time for part two.

SPEAKER_02 40:33

Let's talk Sis is produced by Ross Booth. For more, join us on Instagram at Let's Talk underscore sis.