People in Production Podcast with Ryan Nelson

Episode 5: Part 2 - Workforce Development and Overcome Failure - Brandon Herring

• Circle of 5 • Season 1 • Episode 5

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Brandon's interview reveals a transformative approach towards workforce development, focusing on reentry programs for incarcerated individuals in manufacturing. He emphasizes the importance of soft skills and collaboration, showcasing the potential of second chances within the industry.

• Exploring the impact of reentry programs on workforce success 
• Building essential soft skills for a stable employment foundation 
• Cultivating a positive employee culture through community involvement 
• Importance of partnerships for expanding business opportunities 
• The benefits of transparency and collaboration in the industry 
• Inspiring employee morale by showcasing success stories 
• Vision for a diverse and inclusive manufacturing workforce 
• Shaping the future of manufacturing through community engagement

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

All right, folks, you have been waiting for part two of Brandon's interview, or my interview with Brandon, and this is really an interesting thing. He shares a little bit about the fact that they work with individuals that are in incarceration in their shop and he talks a little bit about how they invest in reentry and a role that I play with their organization. He talks about why would Zephyr hold a shop tour for their competitors Sometimes people get a little bit nervous about why would I invite other people in the industry into my space and he shares some of his perspective. He talks about some of the other initiatives that the KCNTMA is doing in 2025. I'm excited about that. And then you get to experience the speed round with Brandon and hear his response to the speed feed questions. So check out episode five of people in production podcast. It's seat that Zephyr. Can you tell us a little bit about that journey?

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

I don't know. I guess I wasn't in the seat I'm in now. I think for the time, at the time, it was the right seat. So I was started out here as an estimator, and I was an estimator for I don't know five years. But then, so in the nature of our business and our workforce, we currently, for those of you who don't know, we have 200 employees, but 100 of those employees are currently incarcerated with the state of Kansas, and so what I realized, and some of my colleagues, is a lot of these gentlemen had never had jobs before.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

So we need to develop an environment that will allow them to flourish, and so, in addition to teaching them a trade, which is great we need to teach them how to be at a job. We need to teach them not only how to be at a job, but we need to teach them how to be successful at a job, and then hopefully, you know, eventually they will be released into society. So we need them how to. We need to teach them how to retain gainful and meaningful employment, and so we didn't have any of these reentry type programs and soft skills programs. And then, ryan, that's how you and I met we started developing and working with groups like InCircle and Johnson County Community College. So not only do we need to come up with a curriculum that will help our people, something as simple as being at your station on time, you know employee etiquette or how to deal with a supervisor in a instruction or instruction, you know supervisor, employee role as opposed to authoritative figure, victim role. We got to get out of that mindset and get into a workforce mindset and then just teaching them. You know community, effective communication, teamwork and there's a lot of things here that a lot of companies should be doing. Anyway, we just really realized it because we were having turnover right out of the gate and we realized that a lot of it had to do with just business ethic, just entry level work skills, and so soft skills, communication skills that you know.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

Frankly, when I share that with other customers that have all civilian workforce, they're like, well, we need that with our company. So I think it's kind of a universal thing. You know, just teaching people how to be at work and how to be successful at work, and whether they stay with you or not, they're going to take that on with them and they'll be successful in their lives, and so so my original. So when I so I took a position where I was uh personnel training and development and that's where we developed a lot of these programs, and some of the additional programs that were uh needed also is for us specifically that's specific to our stories re-entry programs, like how do we get these guys uh to be successful when they get out. So those would include and like in some of the stuff that you're involved in, where we're teaching guys how to how to build a resume, how to do mock interviews, how to find some simple finance things, like guys never had a checkbook, a credit card, you know and never got a loan before.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

So do's and don'ts on all these things. You know now that they've been making money while they're incarcerated, we need to have a structure for them so that when they do re-enter, then not only can they maintain gainful and meaningful employment, they have a technical skill that they that is marketable, and so that's another thing.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

Here is, after we try to make, stay ahead of the technology curse or teaching our guys that that's the technology that's relevant, they can get a job in, but also how to be uh, maintain that gainful and meaningful employment, as well as certain life skills to help them be more successful when they go back into society and they're with their families and they can be your neighbor and be a positive, contributing member of society and break those generational curses and be able to uh, you know, start over again.

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

So yep, and I think you're right. You, you stated that well and you indicated that it wasn't necessarily that you were in the wrong seat, but you used your innovative spirit, you used your passion for investing in the workforce and you created a solution. But then you realized there was a role that you could play even better within the organization, and that's when you made the shift over to sales. Is that a fair way to summarize?

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

That's a fair way. So I actually, previous to my life here at Zephyr, was in an outside sales role for many years in custom software that was focused on telecom, and so I came from an outside sales role, which was a job shop just in software, not metal, and so I did a lot of the same types of things here. So I had that previous background and that is. You know, though, I love developing programs to help people be more successful and I think it really had shifted the culture here at zephyr and we've seen a lot of growth just in our employee base and we continue to uh, my jobs and the way I and where I was groomed as far as the career goes is in the position I'm in now yeah, I love it, man.

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

So let's get back to this conversation about when you see a project that's not right for you. You talked about hey, who do I refer this to? So how do you build relationships with other people, companies that you might refer a job to because you know they're better suited for it than what you are?

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

that's a great segue into uh, ntma or national tooling and machining association. Uh, specifically of kansas city. We got about 40 members of this chapter that a lot of them are in precision machining. But everybody has their little niche in that precision machining Now, whether it's CNC mills, lathes, you know, or some sort of making screws to you know, whatever their niche is that we use precision machines, right, and so having that tool in your toolbox, you have a litany of these other companies that could be extensions to your shop, right, and so having that understanding of what those partners can do has been really advantageous for us. We, unlike many of our fellow members in the NTMA group, they are serious machine shops. We have a very minimal machine shop to date, and so that's been a really big help for us.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

So parts that aren't necessarily good for us, like maybe one part of an overall assembly that's very intricate machine having these partners in this group in TMA has been awesome for us, because these guys that's what they do, and so we've been able to leverage and create a lot of synergies with some of those guys so that we can get what we need and then obviously in return we are doing stuff that we're good at laser form, weld and powder coating for them, you know, and so, uh, and so we have been able to, um, not pass on so many things lately because of that leveraging those relationships, uh. But you know, there still comes time where like, uh, you know, there might be some stuff that's just, uh, maybe they want it a little bit more assembled than we do, like we're doing like electrical components and things like that. But more and more, the more that I dive into NTMA, there's guys in there that do that. So it's like, you know, I just came out of another meeting just now and we were talking about that. We're like, well, we don't want to get into that.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

So we probably should start leveraging more of these relationships that we have. So we don't pass up on this stuff, because if it's lucrative for for us and it could also be lucrative for them too, and then kind of like the mission of what we're trying to do this year and into means we're trying to bring more manufacturing back to the Kansas City area, and so having those types of conversations, understanding what you have in the toolbox in TMA, is going to be really advantageous thing for all members that are a part of this group and any groups like that, to be able to get more manufacturing back into our area and just to just to create a larger business ecosystem all around you know, in 2024 you all actually hosted a shop tour where you invited any mtma member that wanted to to come and have breakfast at your facility.

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

There was a presentation. You guys talked about your organization and your philosophy of staffing and some of the success stories of people who have come through the program at Zephyr, and then you literally had your key leaders in the organization give people tours of your facility. And someone might say why the heck would you do that? You're actually letting your competitors into your facility. Uh, and why? Why would you do that? Isn't that a threat to your business? Can you tell me a little bit about the mindset that someone who hosts an event like that has to have?

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

yeah, that's another great question. So I think a lot you know, unfortunately.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

Uh, that's a barrier that we need to overcome in our industry, like uh I think there's been a lot of like playing your cards really close to your chest because you don't want, uh, you know people to know who your customers are. Hey, we need to get real. Man, we all lit, we all are in the same area and we all, mostly, are doing parts for the same customers. It's just a matter of which parts you're doing when, right. And so it comes down to the relationship. And so, like, if I feel and know, and I have confidence in my team based on all the morale development that we've done, based on the stuff we just talked about, the positive projects we do, that develop stronger relationships with our customers, so we gotta lean on that, right.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

So, like, I'm not just I'm not going to just deliver everything over to my competitor on a silver platter but at the same time, man, they could learn something from us. They might see something that we do, uh, that they don't, that they have an opportunity for that. Now they're like, okay, well, maybe we should make a, we can be friendly competitors and we can work together on some projects, right, so that actually happened on two different um opportunities that we did when we did the shop tour. So, yes, we and, and, and I think every company has that where you get some of this old school mentality that, okay, if we can't have our competitors come into our shop, they're going to steal our parts. I mean, in my mind, if you want, if somebody wanted to be that petty, then you know they want to do something like that. Then fine, I'm confident'm confident enough in our relationships.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

That wasn't going to be a big deal, um, but it actually, I think it turns. It turns a lot more opportunities to create synergies and and having those open communications and allowing people to come into your shop, uh, creating more awareness to the, to the folks that were kind enough to come to see what type of capabilities we had. That will ultimately nurture more business.

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

And Brandon, I'd also suggest that maybe there's a message to your team as a leader of an organization that says I'm proud of who we are and I want to showcase our people, our facilities, our resources to other people because there's some pride here, are resources to other people, because there's some pride here. And I think, organizationally, when you have the courage to open up a shop like that and you see 70, 80, 90, 100 people walking through the shop, the people on the floor take some pride on our leadership, believes in us enough to showcase to other companies and I actually think it raises the morale for the team as well.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

I couldn't agree more, you know, especially since, to your point, you know we have some of our success. So we have many success stories here, but we had some of the success stories. You know. Get up and give a little testimony on their experience with the program, because they come through our program. You know, I would say that anybody works here that's a civilian uh could go work anywhere and make parts, but the majority if not all of us are here because of more, here because of the program.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

Right, we're not just making parts, we're making quality people, and so we are working with people that had a tough run because they may have made a decision someplace in their life that changed the whole trajectory of their lives. But most of the people that end up here, that stay in the program, are people that are truly trying to change, and so we want and so I think we want to contribute to that change. So we feel like we're doing community work here just as much. That guy or gal could end up being your neighbor someday. If we tool them up, give them the right education, the right opportunities, they're going to be successful when they get out. And so you know we have a very high success rate with our program. We're very proud of that.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

And, to your point, when we are showcasing those stories and those are sorry, those testimonies and the other, the other members on the floor see that they're very proud. They're very proud that one of their own is has made it, and they want that. They want that too, right, so that creates that's, that's contagious and contagious. And so, yeah, I couldn't agree more. It was, it was, it was just as much, if not more, an internal um morale booster uh than the opportunities that came from that I love it, hey.

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

One more question about your role in mtma. You've been on the board for mtma. You're going to be on it again, um, in 2025. Um, a lot of people that I see at MTMA. They are the CEOs or the shop manager and stuff. It's kind of interesting to have a sales guy representing the company in MTMA.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

Yeah, I think I'm the only one that's not an owner, or?

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

president. So tell me about that dynamic, because I think there's a cool aspect to recognize that it's not just the machinist and it's not just the shop supervisors and the owners that have a representation of the company. I love the fact that you're representing another side. Tell me a little bit about why a salesperson would want to invest in the NTMA experience. Well, first we'll get this.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

So, from the selfish perspective, obviously I'm a sales guy so I'm looking for more relationships, right. But I also, you know, when I first my first experience with MTMA wasn't that wasn't awesome. You know, like I went there and just a bunch of people standing around and talking, which is fine for, but there wasn't a whole lot of energy. I guess you say, and so now there's some new people that aren't your typical folks that would be there has really created a really great energy in this group, and now you've seen it expand pretty substantially over the last year or two. That's just really put a spark in this group.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

And so I think you know, and then traditionally, which I love them, I love all the guys that were on the board before that, but they've been there a long time and so I think you bring new blood in, you get new ideas that create new energy and I think even they saw that and they were like, ok, maybe we need to to make some changes for this for the sake of the group, so that the group can continue to flourish, and I think that we'll see even more of that in 2025 as we start to do some things that are way outside our comfort zone, like trying to have a our own uh, you know, uh trade show and you know here in kansas city, and things like that, which I'm really looking forward to.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

Those opportunities, because that will, uh, that will. That will spark a will spark a lot of new business opportunities, and the one thing that I have in common with all those owners and presidents is they're trying to expand their business, right, and so my job is to expand Zephyr's business, uh, and so, though I'm not in an executive role, my, I'm the only outside salesperson here, and that's exactly what I'm supposed to do, you know, is to expand those things, and so that's in order to do my job and to provide value back to my company. Um, while I'm with my time in mtma, um, it's also going to benefit the mtma group, because that's what I'm doing for my company and that's what we're going to be doing for that group, so I think it's a, it's a double, it's a, it's a win-win so good man.

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

Love that, love your energy. I love the outlook that you have. I also know that there's going to be a combined event in april between kc ntma and st louis ntma and that's going to be in the kansas city metro area tied to the bots kc event, and so it's super cool to see the energy and the fact that KC NTMA isn't just trying to grow the network of people in Kansas City, we're reaching and building relationships with other areas and it's going to create more opportunities for excellence in the industry.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

Yeah, it's going every direction. We got not only just the NTMA initiatives, but we have a spinoff group with she Leads. We got just not only just the NTMA initiatives, but we have a spinoff group with she Leads, like we have all these women that have seen this energy that we're doing here and like well, hey, you know, let's get women that empower women in our industry, which we lack. You know, we need more women in our industry. We do. It's just this.

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

And they want to show the excellence that women contribute to the industry so that there's more diversity within the industry.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

Absolutely and we need that desperately in our, in our industry, you know, and so I'm so happy for that.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

And then you see this box kc, where you're getting students to engineer these, these machines that fight each other with that. That's entertainment too. And then we have, you know, we're going to have this uh, internship program where we these, where folks can, you know, students who come in and we're trying to create more awareness and more interest generated with the younger, with the younger minds coming out of schools and such to come into our industry. But in addition to that, from another selfish perspective, I want that program for our guys. You know, that's another opportunity for people coming out of being incarcerated to further their at the further education and their career in a path that we need more people and we need. We need more people that are interested in manufacturing, and so there's so many facets that are happening in this that I think are going to continually to generate a bigger ecosystem of of business here that we're really on the precipice of something really big and kcntma is currently led by an executive director by the name of Catherine O'Toole.

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

She is a go-getter. I did a podcast interview with Catherine a couple episodes ago. Check that out, and the energy that you see in Catherine on that podcast is how she shows up every day, and so I think that's part of the momentum of the organization is that she is on fire to get things done and it's showing up every session.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more. She's a beast Awesome.

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

Hey, so time for the speed feed questions. All right, you ready?

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

for this. Man, I hope so, man, I hope so.

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

All right, here's what we're going to do. Let's start with this. When it comes to those early morning meetings or you're on the shop floor before hours and stuff trying to see on a project before you call a customer, are you a coffee energy drink guy or some other caffeine kind of guy? How do you get your energy going in the morning? Coffee and a workout, coffee and a workout oh, you combine it with the healthy stuff. Nicely done, all right. Let's ask you this If you could go to a Chiefs football game with any it doesn't even have to be a famous person, it could just be any person of your choosing who would you want to go with? Do they have to be alive?

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

Nope, they don't have to. You can even go. My hero is Jesus Christ, but if I could go with anybody alive, it would be I could go with anybody alive, and be my daughter, all right, I love it.

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

I love it. It'd be interesting to go to, especially a Chiefs football game with Jesus. That could be an experience For sure. All right, especially if it's Chiefs Raiders. Could you imagine how Jesus would react to that? But it'd be great, all right. Hey, so let's ask this From a sales perspective what's the greatest threat to the manufacturing industry in your opinion?

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

The greatest threat is? Well, I guess that's a loaded question, but I mean there's a lot of different facets to it. I guess one would be you know, we lack the ability to, or the want to do more, do better and do it more efficiently. Obviously, you know material prices and things like that can play a factor, or whether companies are reshoring or offshoring, but you know, I think it's just initiative, right? So how are you going to differentiate yourself, how are you going to stand out amongst your, your competition, and then just getting out there and uh and sharing that, making more awareness to your brand? Love it, man you.

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

I see you on a regular basis. You are definitely a leader. I have to ask you this what's one tool you couldn't live without in your leadership role? Uh, tool belt.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

Buy-in, okay, buy-in and, uh, you know, accountability, uh, but but buy-in communication, uh, yeah, are, are, are are key factors. But I think to to be a leader, you have to be willing, uh, to roll your sleeves up and get down into the trenches. People respect and follow. People they know can get a job done, not just being told what to do. They've read it somewhere. But if you know, uh, and not scared to get down there with them, uh and get and get into, get in there to the nitty-gritty man people, people are loyal to that and so yeah, that's awesome.

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

Dude love that. So what's one? If you could master any skill instantly, what would it be? Oh god, um as a chiefs fan, I thought you'd say field goal kicking. But what would it be, oh God? As a Chiefs fan, I thought you'd say field goal kicking.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

No, yeah, I mean Chiefs. Why not Field goal kicking? Or yeah, I always. Honestly, this is completely unrelated, but I wish I could master application programming.

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

Interesting Love, that that is a fun one to hear you say. And then last question really, what's a question I should have asked you that I didn't ask you?

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

I don't know. Honestly, that's a good question. There's not one that I can think of. That would have been amazing. Other than you know, you could have answered like what's the key or what's the secret to life? I don't know.

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

Well, so I think what you're saying is we picked your brain pretty thoroughly.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

Yeah, pretty thoroughly.

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

All right, man. Hey, it has been such an honor to have this opportunity to sit with you and just engage at this level. Thanks for all you do for KC and TMA, love your investment in the manufacturing community and just really grateful for you, brandon thank you, thanks for having me.

Brandon Herring w/ Zephyr Products, Inc:

I appreciate your time. You guys, you take care. Bye you too. Bye, bye all right.

Ryan Nelson w/ Circle of 5:

That wraps up our interview with brandon. He did such a great job. Love his insight and the unique perspective he brings to the conversation. Remember to subscribe to this podcast, in whatever vehicle you're listening to it, and leave a comment below expressing to Brandon what you appreciated, some insights that he shared that you found meaningful, and also be sure to share this in your LinkedIn profile. Let other people know about the conversation that's going on here at the People in Production podcast. Thanks for joining us. Be sure to check out our next episode coming out next week.